Welcome to Night Vale Mafia [ENDGAME]

[LoRab]

I miss being able to see everyone's post count in the thread

Agreed. By a lot. And being able to click on a list on the index page to see the list of who has posted and in order of number of posts. That should be possible on phpBB. If it costs money, I'm sure multiple of us (including me) will be more than happy to contribute.

[Dom]

How strongly do you hold that conviction?

Maybe 85%?

I think he's come at people's perspectives genuinely. I liked his responses to Jack's early pressure.

Why do you think he wanted me to vote you?

[Dom]

I want to give dom a chance to restart during the night phase, so im inclined to Vote LC

linki: @Dom, youre not helping yourself by getting defensive and flustered. Continuing to act that way will get people to vote you, like Eloh just did

I find this curious.
Why did sprit want my vote out of the way?
Was he sincere in granting me clemency?


Does anyone have the vote order?

[Dom]

Maybe my lede here is wrong, but I have my eye on sprit.

[Golden]

I don't think you have the right interpretation, but I did think he wanted us to stop derailing the thread as he felt like it was dominating discussion, and the way he handled is during that exchange, I thought he came out good.

Given his in thread process for coming to the lc vote, I don't think he is on lcs team.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Hey, everybody.

Good job on LC, who I should have voted for. New rainbow coming up.

Btw, I haaaaaate silencing as a mechanic. I love talking. My favorite roles are bulletproof, mason, notepasser and sker. Anything that lets me talk extra. I will never self silence or pretend to be silenced.

I'm a bit perplexed by the meta that silenced people are more likely to be bad. Like, you don't clear them because WIFOM but you shouldn't suspect them either because WIFOM.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Hey, everybody.

Good job on LC, who I should have voted for. New rainbow coming up.

Btw, I haaaaaate silencing as a mechanic. I love talking. My favorite roles are bulletproof, mason, notepasser and sker. Anything that lets me talk extra. I will never self silence or pretend to be silenced.

I'm a bit perplexed by the meta that silenced people are more likely to be bad. Like, you don't clear them because WIFOM but you shouldn't suspect them either because WIFOM.

Did you choose to vote for Golden?

[TonyStarkPrime]

Hey, everybody.

Good job on LC, who I should have voted for. New rainbow coming up.

Btw, I haaaaaate silencing as a mechanic. I love talking. My favorite roles are bulletproof, mason, notepasser and sker. Anything that lets me talk extra. I will never self silence or pretend to be silenced.

I'm a bit perplexed by the meta that silenced people are more likely to be bad. Like, you don't clear them because WIFOM but you shouldn't suspect them either because WIFOM.

Did you choose to vote for Golden?

[Golden]

I understand completely Jack, me too. Good to have your voice back, I'm looking forward to your thoughts on the day.

[Jackofhearts2005]

According to the rules, you aren't allowed to reveal mod pms. I assume that includes a vote steal pm and a lack of vote steal pm.

[Golden]

According to the rules, you aren't allowed to reveal mod pms. I assume that includes a vote steal pm and a lack of vote steal pm.

If in doubt, ask ninja.

[Golden]

FWIW, I don't really need to know what the reason for your vote for me was... it's a new day.

[TonyStarkPrime]

FWIW, I don't really need to know what the reason for your vote for me was... it's a new day.

It would clear up mechanics and change my read of Jack. More information is (almost) always better.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Another note on side meta: self voting is almost never pro town. Like, if I know for a fact that player A and B are mafia but nobody will listen to me, if I get lynched, that confirms my info and helps the town.

Any other scenario? It's a pitty party that hurts your faction and is against the spirit of the game by harming your own teammates who are actually trying to win. (Or you're bad hoping to avoid lynch via pitty.)

I do not understand the Syndicate meta of giving up when you are town. Seen several townies do it in other games. Stop it.

Because game theory, only baddies should be self voting so self voting is asking me to lynch you.

[LoRab]

Another note on side meta: self voting is almost never pro town. Like, if I know for a fact that player A and B are mafia but nobody will listen to me, if I get lynched, that confirms my info and helps the town.

Any other scenario? It's a pitty party that hurts your faction and is against the spirit of the game by harming your own teammates who are actually trying to win. (Or you're bad hoping to avoid lynch via pitty.)

I do not understand the Syndicate meta of giving up when you are town. Seen several townies do it in other games. Stop it.

Because game theory, only baddies should be self voting so self voting is asking me to lynch you.

Alternately, don't tell other people how to play.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Another note on side meta: self voting is almost never pro town. Like, if I know for a fact that player A and B are mafia but nobody will listen to me, if I get lynched, that confirms my info and helps the town.

Any other scenario? It's a pitty party that hurts your faction and is against the spirit of the game by harming your own teammates who are actually trying to win. (Or you're bad hoping to avoid lynch via pitty.)

I do not understand the Syndicate meta of giving up when you are town. Seen several townies do it in other games. Stop it.

Because game theory, only baddies should be self voting so self voting is asking me to lynch you.

Alternately, don't tell other people how to play.

If you were playing soccer and your teammate kicked the ball into the wrong net, you'd say something.

[Golden]

Because game theory, only baddies should be self voting so self voting is asking me to lynch you.

How much of your background is role madness? I've used the self vote as town to the towns benefit a few times in role madness games, I think there is a definite place for it. In fact, I think it is almost always inherently town leaning to self vote. Generally the only mafia justification for it is to engender sympathy as it's difficult to balance the potential tactical gain with the much more sizable risk (that a townie doesn't really feel).

But the only person who did was Dom and it was an accident. He meant to vote for me.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Because game theory, only baddies should be self voting so self voting is asking me to lynch you.

How much of your background is role madness? I've used the self vote as town to the towns benefit a few times in role madness games, I think there is a definite place for it. In fact, I think it is almost always inherently town leaning to self vote. Generally the only mafia justification for it is to engender sympathy as it's difficult to balance the potential tactical gain with the much more sizable risk (that a townie doesn't really feel).

But the only person who did was Dom and it was an accident. He meant to vote for me.

Two players did it in ME and it arguably lost the game for the town.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Dom asked players to lynch him. Self voting might have been an accident but asking to be lynched is generally anti town because it leads to a dead townie.

[Golden]

Was it the self vote, or the way others reacted to it, that determined those lynches?

I have arguably saved my own life and in so doing made a tangible difference to the town cause in doing it. I also believe there is something to be said for a townie identifying when they are allowing the mafia to use them as an agenda and getting out of the way (although less frequently). I have no problem getting lynched if I think it's a net benefit to the town.

Part of this probably comes from the culture of not revealing roles that are NKed as well, which you may not be used to? Being lynched can sometimes provide better information.

[Golden]

My overall point is - non-changeable votes, role madness, no NK role reveals... this game is right in an old school wheelhouse for many of us, and it's that old school wheelhouse that informs how we play. Don't be too down on it, any tactic can be used advantageously to the town in the right situation.

[sprityo]

I want to give dom a chance to restart during the night phase, so im inclined to Vote LC

linki: @Dom, youre not helping yourself by getting defensive and flustered. Continuing to act that way will get people to vote you, like Eloh just did

I find this curious.
Why did sprit want my vote out of the way?
Was he sincere in granting me clemency?


Does anyone have the vote order?

i didnt want it out of the way per say, i wanted you to vote for Golden if you were so convinced he was wrong and against you. I also believe in people giving their good side since mafia can be a stressful game, that's why i always include a Take a Break rule in my setups. I know youre a good player Dom, but you gotta realize when something isnt worth chasing.

[LoRab]

Another note on side meta: self voting is almost never pro town. Like, if I know for a fact that player A and B are mafia but nobody will listen to me, if I get lynched, that confirms my info and helps the town.

Any other scenario? It's a pitty party that hurts your faction and is against the spirit of the game by harming your own teammates who are actually trying to win. (Or you're bad hoping to avoid lynch via pitty.)

I do not understand the Syndicate meta of giving up when you are town. Seen several townies do it in other games. Stop it.

Because game theory, only baddies should be self voting so self voting is asking me to lynch you.

Alternately, don't tell other people how to play.

If you were playing soccer and your teammate kicked the ball into the wrong net, you'd say something.

Not, at all, the same thing. In soccer, that action is literally playing the game wrong. In mafia, this action is playing with a different strategy and mind frame. Totally different. Maybe it's not a style you are used to, but it's a action that some of us find natural. It's not the same thing as literally playing the game incorrectly. Game theory doesn't always take into consideration a difference of strategy, which is the downfall of the theory--it is too dependent on statistics. Which, in mafia, at least the way we play here, doesn't work. If you say it is, then you are dictating the manner in which people approach the game, which isn't, imho, appropriate.

Also, please tell us why you voted for Golden.

Also, regarding this post:

Hey, everybody.

Good job on LC, who I should have voted for. New rainbow coming up.

Btw, I haaaaaate silencing as a mechanic. I love talking. My favorite roles are bulletproof, mason, notepasser and sker. Anything that lets me talk extra. I will never self silence or pretend to be silenced.

I'm a bit perplexed by the meta that silenced people are more likely to be bad. Like, you don't clear them because WIFOM but you shouldn't suspect them either because WIFOM.

I don't actually think you are the player that silences, so what you say is moot. Also, a nice slip to the LD. Everyone hates being silenced--it's kind of the point of the role. And, sure, you probably didn't self-silence. But that doesn't mean a teammate didn't silence you (whether you acquiesced willingly or begrudgingly).

And I don't think anyone suggested you were faking it? Not sure why you even denied that.

[Golden]

LoRab, am I to take it that you suspect Jack?

[Dom]

Dom asked players to lynch him. Self voting might have been an accident but asking to be lynched is generally anti town because it leads to a dead townie.

If you have a point, make it.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Foreword: There are two players that wanted to save LC. Three baddies that didn't.

Disclaiming: Copy paste pole is ugly and hard to read, not to mention potentially out of order. I will have to look at timing of votes later.



Boom - No read. He's tunneling on me slightly but due to my changed opinion of Sprityo, he loses a lot of my suspicion. Tony vote does nothing for me one way or the other.

DF - Need to check the timing of his vote. Potential LC teammate due to Dom vote. Said bad things but I forgot what. Dunno if I've ever played with good DF. Not sure what that even looks like but he looks bad to me now. Or maybe just DFish.

Dom - Worse than Golden. Probably still town. Haven't seen bad Dom, though. So is he good or just Dom? Likely not LC's mate. So not SMaf.

Doc - Good. Watch for coasting, though.

Eloh - Goodgoodgood. I'm seeing the effort, the thought. (Epi needs to help out around the house more. Kthnx.)

Epi - Bad? Pointing out my early vote is a pro town move imo. Not like Epi to silence someone, then go "I think he's silenced." That said, he feels like bad Epi. Too passive. Feels like mid-late game ME Epi. Not like early ME Epi or ASOUE Epi. The late INH vote looks bad. (Double check the timing.)

Golden - I see good guy Golden tells and I see his point on Dom. INH arguement carries little weight with me but sometimes, walk throwing is what you gotta do, especially early. His top suspects all hit top points on the poll? It's not Golden's fault he's dominating conversation. Where is the rest of the town? Not w/w with LC. So not SMaf.

INH - I agree with his self defense of Poppy. LC vote could be a bus/self pres and does nothing for alignment determination. In my heart, I don't think he was teamed with LC. Took too many votes too late in the day for that. If he's bad with LC, the suspicious INH votes weren't actually bad behavior but they look so bad. Null but likely not SMaf.

Jack - A paragon of towniness, as always.

Lorab - Not sure why people think she's town. Cause she was nice to Dom? Not alignment indicative. None of her content sticks out to me. Lots of posts. Talking to talk? Places second vote on LC, though. Not SMaf, likely. (All non SMaf players are statistically likely to be town but I want her to be bad for being wrong about everything I remember her saying. Wrong does not always equal bad. Additionally, her teammates would warn her about what she's been doing. That is, I'm a damn good dancer so she's not getting me lynched on her own. I'm also sensitive to players' reactions to me. So going after Jack during the day when you are mafia without a lot of teeth to the accusation is a bad move....and therefore something I see good Lorab more likely to do.)

Never - Pff. Not gonna even try.

Rico - So sure Golden is bad but I heavily town read Golden at this point. Late INH vote looks bad, though INH was the other person harped on all day. Probably bad but it's hard to tone read people playing their own mini games. Does seem to be hunting so there's that.

Speed - Good. Heart read. I just see good Spdcharles. Plus, early LC vote.

Sprityo - Good. Liked his mini explosion. Felt real. Liked his talk about vote stealing. Like his vote on LC.

Timmer - Catch up, yo.

Tony - I'm going back and forth. Appears to be helping, which isn't the same thing. Some fluid reads iirc with no progression (as...Dom? pointed out). Gtth bad.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Ebwop

Disclaimer*

Wall* throwing

[Dom]

Jack--
How can you see Golden's point(s) on me, but also have consistently read me as civ throughout the game and claim you're seeing my civ game because you can read me so well based on playing with me twice?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Worth noting that Dom had votes, then LC gathered votes, then late votes came not on LC, esp on INH....but not Dom.

Assuming INH and LC not teamed, why not push on Dom? Why vote INH?

Theory 1) Dom and LC w/w.

Theory 2) Teammates really thought INH argument was good and wanted cred.

Theory 3) Teammates not attempting to save LC

[Jackofhearts2005]

Jack--
How can you see Golden's point(s) on me, but also have consistently read me as civ throughout the game and claim you're seeing my civ game because you can read me so well based on playing with me twice?

Golden said a lot about you today. Don't assume my thoughts on you remain unchanged. Plus, a read has multiple aspects. "2+1-1=2. How can you be subtracting and yet not have a lower number?"

My town read on you was initially based on seeing your civ game. But like you said, I don't know you that well so I could just be seeing Dom.

My recent town read on you assumed many Dom votes = Dom not teamed with LC. Upon further checking, only Tony's vote came late for you. Bad assumption.

[LoRab]

LoRab, am I to take it that you suspect Jack?

Not sure. I speculated that his being silenced didn't sit well, and nothin he has said since then has sat any better.

Also, he hasn't answered why he voted for you, even after being overtly asked. I'm curious to see that answer.

At this point, unsure, but not feeling great. And after the post below, yeah, suspicion growing.

Lorab - Not sure why people think she's town. Cause she was nice to Dom? Not alignment indicative. None of her content sticks out to me. Lots of posts. Talking to talk? Places second vote on LC, though. Not SMaf, likely. (All non SMaf players are statistically likely to be town but I want her to be bad for being wrong about everything I remember her saying. Wrong does not always equal bad. Additionally, her teammates would warn her about what she's been doing. That is, I'm a damn good dancer so she's not getting me lynched on her own. I'm also sensitive to players' reactions to me. So going after Jack during the day when you are mafia without a lot of teeth to the accusation is a bad move....and therefore something I see good Lorab more likely to do.)

First off, I don't think we've played together before. Or, if we have, not a lot. And I realize that my style is a lot different from what people are used to--especially if they've played elsewhere. So, I take suspicion with a grain of salt as a general rule. And accept that people are going to suspect me for being me. Curious what all the things I've been wrong about are. I suspected that LC was bad and I was right. Nothing else has been proven one way or another that I've talked about. And I was nice to Dom because I've known him for a decade and I consider him a friend. You are right--that is not alignment indicative. However, I read him as civ, which is my honest read of him as a player.

As for the theoretical teammates warning me about going after you because you're a good dancer and I wouldn't bother if I had been warned? Seriously?! First off, I didn't go after you during the day when you were silenced--I mentioned the possibility that you could be bad, which is totally different. Second, if you don't think I have the teeth to go after a strong player on little evidence but noticing small things, then you have clearly never played with me. (and, if you have teammates, which I suspect you do, have not listened to their comments about me, assuming that they have played with me. And, since I suspect LC is one of your teammates, I assume he's given you a good overview). And, my choice of who to go after, in general, is not at all alliance indicative. As many players here can attest.

TLDR: Yeah, I suspect you. Game on.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Was it the self vote, or the way others reacted to it, that determined those lynches?

It was giving up. SVS stopped trying to get a mafia member lynched and MP stopped trying at all. The mafia was able to take advantage and push a mislynch on MP.

[Golden]

I've known him for a decade

Gosh, time is getting on eh?

[Ricochet]

Another note on side meta: self voting is almost never pro town. Like, if I know for a fact that player A and B are mafia but nobody will listen to me, if I get lynched, that confirms my info and helps the town.

Any other scenario? It's a pitty party that hurts your faction and is against the spirit of the game by harming your own teammates who are actually trying to win. (Or you're bad hoping to avoid lynch via pitty.)

I do not understand the Syndicate meta of giving up when you are town. Seen several townies do it in other games. Stop it.

Because game theory, only baddies should be self voting so self voting is asking me to lynch you.

Alternately, don't tell other people how to play.

If you were playing soccer and your teammate kicked the ball into the wrong net, you'd say something.

Rico - So sure Golden is bad but I heavily town read Golden at this point. Late INH vote looks bad, though INH was the other person harped on all day. Probably bad but it's hard to tone read people playing their own mini games. Does seem to be hunting so there's that.

[Ricochet]

Long Con

insertnamehere

[Golden]

Was it the self vote, or the way others reacted to it, that determined those lynches?

It was giving up. SVS stopped trying to get a mafia member lynched and MP stopped trying at all. The mafia was able to take advantage and push a mislynch on MP.

Now, I never want townies to give up. This game can get emotionally taxing but as a townie it's great if we can fight through it as well as possible.

But, to my perspective, giving up is a different thing to self-voting or asking people to vote for you. I asked people to vote for me today. I did it because I wanted to see if they actually would, and because I felt the way they reacted to that could be telling. It did lead me to treat Dom and LC very differently and end up pushing in the opposite direction to where I began.

[timmer]

So at what point did the game actually get going? I've just finished page 4, so 400 posts I think, and it's still frill.

[timmer]

Oh, actually I think I'm set to 50 per maybe? Either way I'm finally at the meat of Day 1. Which is... a Day 1-y Day 1. Lots of random voting, nothing I can yet discern.

[timmer]

Anyone know of another mafia site with a game about to start?

I do, if you happen to like RuPaul's Drag Race??

[timmer]

Okay, so I've made to the end of Day 1.

I wish I could say I divined something out of that read, but really, it is all over the place. Tomorrow is another double shift at work and once again I'll attempt to catch up when I can.

For now, though, it's one more oatmeal stout and then bed.

[Ricochet]

watch out for timmer never actually catching up. that's classic baddie timmer.

And in light of the remaining minutes to this day, I'm never going to catch up fully, if someone can give me the cole's notes on the big cases?

Okay, so I've made to the end of Day 1.

I wish I could say I divined something out of that read, but really, it is all over the place. Tomorrow is another double shift at work and once again I'll attempt to catch up when I can.

[Golden]

Very Deborah so far. I'm cutting him a little slack because he was late to the party, but let it not continue.

[LoRab]

What does Deborah mean? I mean, I know who the biblical figure is obviously, but I assume this is referencing the Bible themed game. So, please explain.

I've known him for a decade

Gosh, time is getting on eh?

Seriously.

[Dom]

Worth noting that Dom had votes, then LC gathered votes, then late votes came not on LC, esp on INH....but not Dom.

Assuming INH and LC not teamed, why not push on Dom? Why vote INH?

Theory 1) Dom and LC w/w.

Theory 2) Teammates really thought INH argument was good and wanted cred.

Theory 3) Teammates not attempting to save LC

LC only has two teammates.
One who could out themselves with a misplaced vote.
Your theory is shaky AF. If both teammates voted for me I might not have the most votes in the poll, but i might die; thus, giving a lead on Marcus.

Jack--
How can you see Golden's point(s) on me, but also have consistently read me as civ throughout the game and claim you're seeing my civ game because you can read me so well based on playing with me twice?

Golden said a lot about you today. Don't assume my thoughts on you remain unchanged. Plus, a read has multiple aspects. "2+1-1=2. How can you be subtracting and yet not have a lower number?"

My town read on you was initially based on seeing your civ game. But like you said, I don't know you that well so I could just be seeing Dom.

My recent town read on you assumed many Dom votes = Dom not teamed with LC. Upon further checking, only Tony's vote came late for you. Bad assumption.

So, do you read me as civ or not? You're avoiding that. Why?
Also, you can't suddenly see Golden's points when you were there when they were made.

Jack--
How can you see Golden's point(s) on me, but also have consistently read me as civ throughout the game and claim you're seeing my civ game because you can read me so well based on playing with me twice?

Golden said a lot about you today. Don't assume my thoughts on you remain unchanged. Plus, a read has multiple aspects. "2+1-1=2. How can you be subtracting and yet not have a lower number?"

My town read on you was initially based on seeing your civ game. But like you said, I don't know you that well so I could just be seeing Dom.

My recent town read on you assumed many Dom votes = Dom not teamed with LC. Upon further checking, only Tony's vote came late for you. Bad assumption.

Tony didn't vote for me.

I've known him for a decade

Gosh, time is getting on eh?

10 years with these people...

Very Deborah so far. I'm cutting him a little slack because he was late to the party, but let it not continue.

Same.

[Dom]

What does Deborah mean? I mean, I know who the biblical figure is obviously, but I assume this is referencing the Bible themed game. So, please explain.

I've known him for a decade

Gosh, time is getting on eh?

Seriously.

The game is now unreadable because we reuse sock puppets.
But I recall Deborah always *catching up*, but never actually getting there. I don't remember if Deborah was Timmer.

[Elohcin]

Wow... awesome result! I always see LC as bad, in like every game. This game, I barely notice him and he's actually bad. I'm keeping this in mind for the future.

I will vote barcode scanners.

[speedchuck]

I'm back, about to catch up.

Murder is the worst substance. Keep that out of here.

[insertnamehere]

Long Con

insertnamehere

[Jackofhearts2005]

Was it the self vote, or the way others reacted to it, that determined those lynches?

It was giving up. SVS stopped trying to get a mafia member lynched and MP stopped trying at all. The mafia was able to take advantage and push a mislynch on MP.

Now, I never want townies to give up. This game can get emotionally taxing but as a townie it's great if we can fight through it as well as possible.

But, to my perspective, giving up is a different thing to self-voting or asking people to vote for you. I asked people to vote for me today. I did it because I wanted to see if they actually would, and because I felt the way they reacted to that could be telling. It did lead me to treat Dom and LC very differently and end up pushing in the opposite direction to where I began.

Indeed.

I took your call for votes as a game of chicken to feel out your accusers, not a belief that your death would help the town. That is entirely different from throwing in the towel/flipping the table.

@Lorab

"Teeth" is in regards to the argument, not your ability. Your wrongness is on game theory and me. If you suspected LC and said as much, that was in one ear and out the other, likely due to style (since I'm town reading you). Do you like to tilt at windmills?

Linki haha INH

[Jackofhearts2005]

@Dom

I'm not taking a hard position on you because nothing is pushing me strongly. There's a lot of weak things.

Like I can see Golden's point on you about you being very "no you" focused. There's a chance you are teamed with LC and thus didn't get votes but like you said, there's only 3 per mafia and Marcus has to be careful. You look like townie you in ME but I've never seen bad you so maybe you just look like you, not townie you.

Lots of +1 -1.

Contrast Sprityo with a couple -1s and then a +5 post and a few +1s leaving me with a more solid Sprityo read.

I'll look over the late votes as a whole and correct my assertion about Tony voting you.