The Search for Quin [END]

[Dragon D. Luffy]

It has been a surprisingly long time since I played with DDL. I also remember him being a force early in most of our games together though. I do not hold it too much against a player when it simply appears that they've been more absent than passive, which is the case with DDL right now. I was hoping to hear more from him today. I have the same minor reservations about his Long Con position, but that's about it.

Im going to have inconsistent activity until monday night.Im taking a 900km trit to go to my counsin's wedding so I cant play all the time.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Thoughts from catching up -

I'm torn on LC. Epi's references to other games are somewhat compelling; I was in those games and thus am fully aware of why Epi feels the way he does about LC, but I'm not necessarily convinced that he has to be right. Players don't always fulfill the patterns you expect across alignments. LC's reactions (especially the one after my post) were pretty over-the-top though and I can definitely see him being a caught baddie here.

At the same time, I'm torn on BWT as well. The circumstances of his info claim and its apparent misguidedness are intriguing, but I grant that it seems unlikely he would claim bad info openly if bad, so it's more likely it was just misguided/misleading false info. But his over-eager "let's all lynch LC" post was very suspicious. I've been considering voting for him but MP's post here rings pretty true to me and I'm inclined to trust his read:

BWT is being indecisive as fuck. That means he's town. If he was bad, he would force consistency.

I might look into joining Sloonei in a DDL vote; I'll look back at DDL next. Not feeling MP's and Epi's suspicion of Sloonei; I'm seeing town behavior.

Nutella is sitting on the fence so hard Im afraid she might hurt herself.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

MovingPictures07 I mean, look at your rainbow list. You have 7 people in the neutral territory. How can I be blamed for having lackluster reads when you yourself agree that more than half the players in the game are more or less unreadable at this stage?

linki: fair enough. I look forward to your ISO. I can't blame you if there's lingering suspicion from Street Fighter. I made a deliberate effort to buddy you.

Do you think I'm unfairly questioning you?

I feel your initial read of me was made using a point that should not apply. There's nothing unfair about questioning me.

What point shouldn't apply specifically?

Generally I prefer to stick to POE and usually don't feel comfortable making any firm mafia reads at this stage, but despite being hesitant because I do feel LC is a player who can get himself into trouble early on, I'm relatively convinced by Epi's pursuit of LC and would call him a sole slight mafia read. I also am a bit wary of Sloonei; perhaps it's a bit leftover shock still from Street Fighter, but without taking an in-depth look at his ISO I'm not sure I buy Sloonei's attempts to start discussion to be genuine. Specifically, he doesn't seem that interested in actually developing reads and seems a bit too hoppy. But those are just general impressions and maybe I'm being overly paranoid of him.

You made this point after posting a rainbow list in which more than half the players were listed as null reads. why am I to be blamed for failing to develop reads in the same thread?

If someone has non neutral reads on everyone on day 1, Id say that person is either lying or new at mafia.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Alright, switching my vote to @NewTraditionalist because the fact that this guy hasn't come to play with us yet is perhaps most disconcerting of all!

Seriously man, what do you think of all this stuff that's been said? I know it's probably tough to acquaint yourself with a bunch of content in your first online game ever, but I know you have it in you to bring some serious insight. What you got?

At this point of the day, this is as useless a vote as someone could possibly make. No one will lynch NT and the probability of him showing up in this short timeframe is nearly zero so if youre bad you have gotted rid of your responsibility to vote in an easy way.

[Sloonei]

I might look into joining Sloonei in a DDL vote; I'll look back at DDL next. Not feeling MP's and Epi's suspicion of Sloonei; I'm seeing town behavior.

What are the results of this search, nutella?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

About Epi: I cant read him to save myself. The way he is playing (tunneling on people for arbitrary reasons) is his MO regardlessly of alignment.

Im also skimming most of his argument with LC tbh.

He goes straight to my big neutral pile.

I wanna vote for one of MP, Nutella or LC.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Sloonei, on your comments about me, Ive been generally inactive this game because of RL, but even then, Ive been changing my town meta on this site. Im sill generally agressive I think, but I avoid tunneling like my life depends on it and dont have strong civ or bad reads on anyone but myself. I think that has generally improved my civ play.

[Epignosis]

I don't know why I am even bothering to do this. I'm sure it's a serious personality flaw that I have that I'm compelled to do this.

I'll try to keep this brief.

Spoiler: show

In Mass Effect, an evil independent LC kept calling me nervous. We've had this argument since, but I maintain that I was not nervous, but rather was gleeful that my little scheme to out a member of the mafia was working.

Yes, he'll remind you that I wasn't a civilian (True: I was at the time a neutral who could eventually side with either good or bad) and that he wasn't mafia (True, but he was last man standing, which is a role civilians need dead to win, and is therefore "bad").

My point is that LC framed my posts in such a way that supported his narrative (to get me lynched) rather than one to help the civilians (to get mafia lynched).

No.

Here's what happened, not what Epi's specially selected words choose to tell you. Epi was a complicated Indy who could go either way, and he had a fakeclaim from the host to use. He tells the thread his fakeclaim on Day 2, which I find weird. It made me suspect he was bad, and using a fakeclaim. He wants to spin it like I was some "evil independent" but what do you think my strategy was? Frame someone? I didn't have a team to work with, or for, what I needed was some level of credibility. I was trying to find baddies in as genuine a way as if I were a Civilian.

If you see similarities between that game and this one, then that makes sense enough to me, because my goal was to find baddies in both. In Mass Effect, I was right to go after Epignosis because he, as predicted, joined the baddies. Listen to me again for the first time, here in this game, maybe I'm right again.

If people would have listened to you, they would have wasted a lynch. You weren't right to go after me. Nobody was, because nobody needed me dead to win.

I don't know how else to spell that out for you.

No one wants to read Mass Effect arguments:

Spoiler: show

That's just not a logical assessment of the situation. If you chose to turn Civ, then the Reapers would likely kill you. Turning Civ was never a good option. So you turn Reaper. Civs need all Reapers dead to win. Civs need Epignosis dead to win. But fine, I'll concede that there are multiple ways to look at the situation, and your role can be put into a very different light depending on what you want to believe is likely and logical versus a cold take on a role read. That's as far as I can go, because I have the biggest proof that what I put forth many times in that game was right: it's exactly what happened. Yes, I have the actual past on my side of the argument. Let's drop it.

Spoiler: show

I did not fear drawing a Night kill. That would have been preferable if I had joined the civilians, since 1) I didn't need to be alive to win, and 2) it would have saved a civilian from being killed, thereby improving my chances of winning. Being lynched accomplished the same thing since I went Reaper, since it meant a Reaper wasn't lynched that Day. The civilians did not need me dead to win, even after I sided against them. I even taunted the civilians for believing otherwise. But yes, we can drop this.

Spoiler: show

Sorry I'm a one-track mind right now, but:

I don't know why I am even bothering to do this. I'm sure it's a serious personality flaw that I have that I'm compelled to do this.

I'll try to keep this brief.

Spoiler: show

In Mass Effect, an evil independent LC kept calling me nervous. We've had this argument since, but I maintain that I was not nervous, but rather was gleeful that my little scheme to out a member of the mafia was working.

Yes, he'll remind you that I wasn't a civilian (True: I was at the time a neutral who could eventually side with either good or bad) and that he wasn't mafia (True, but he was last man standing, which is a role civilians need dead to win, and is therefore "bad").

My point is that LC framed my posts in such a way that supported his narrative (to get me lynched) rather than one to help the civilians (to get mafia lynched).

No.

Here's what happened, not what Epi's specially selected words choose to tell you. Epi was a complicated Indy who could go either way, and he had a fakeclaim from the host to use. He tells the thread his fakeclaim on Day 2, which I find weird. It made me suspect he was bad, and using a fakeclaim. He wants to spin it like I was some "evil independent" but what do you think my strategy was? Frame someone? I didn't have a team to work with, or for, what I needed was some level of credibility. I was trying to find baddies in as genuine a way as if I were a Civilian.

If you see similarities between that game and this one, then that makes sense enough to me, because my goal was to find baddies in both. In Mass Effect, I was right to go after Epignosis because he, as predicted, joined the baddies. Listen to me again for the first time, here in this game, maybe I'm right again.

If people would have listened to you, they would have wasted a lynch. You weren't right to go after me. Nobody was, because nobody needed me dead to win.

I don't know how else to spell that out for you.

Very clever, Epi. You completely sidestepped the relevant point of what I said to focus on the Mass Effect argument instead. The relevant point was that I was trying to find baddies in that game, as I am in this one, and so any similarity you want to point out only hurts your case.

But you knew that having the appearance of winning an argument or point was more important to some of these other players than what you were winning. I don't think you really believe I am bad, you just want to win a lynch on me. If you really cared about whether or not I'm bad, then you wouldn't be sidestepping points that don't fit into your narrative.

I would not be pleased if you got lynched and are a civilian.

If you don't believe I think you are bad, then I don't know what to tell you. I am taking what I have seen of you in previous games and what I am seeing now, and when I analyze it, I draw the conclusion that you are not a civilian. That's how this works.

[Epignosis]

Scum likes people to talk, make cases, and get to the lynchy bits. So long as scum it's getting lynched. I see nothing alignment indicative here. Along with the meta-read of BWT just ruining my case on him, I've placed him at null.

I'm not understanding this. Can you rephrase?

[Sloonei]

About Epi: I cant read him to save myself. The way he is playing (tunneling on people for arbitrary reasons) is his MO regardlessly of alignment.

Im also skimming most of his argument with LC tbh.

He goes straight to my big neutral pile.

I wanna vote for one of MP, Nutella or LC.

Tell me about MP. I was just going to say that I want him and Epi to be discussed most of all right now. Epi for the reasons I highlighteated earlier, and MP because his reads seemed almost labored, if that's fair to say. He mostly seemed to just make passing observations at the level of activity of certain players without much intuitive or dynamic responses to events of the thread. I find the brief flare up between MP & Daisy to be particularly intriguing, though I'm not sure what to read into it yet. But any time two players who know each as closely as those two know each other are involved in something like that, it's worth taking note of.
It seems to me like Daisy took offense in MP's vote or saw something she did not like. It would he good to hear her follow-up thoughts on that whole episode. [mention]Spacedaisy[/mention]

[Sloonei]

I don't actually want to lynch DDL today and he's shared a good amount of thoughts for now. So I'm moving my vote to Epignosis.

[Spacedaisy]

I'm running a couple errands, I will catch up and post al my thoughts as soon as I get home.

[NewTraditionalist]

Howdy, all. Delurking to encourage MP (and anyone on the fence) to vote anyone but me. I don't know all of the jargon yet so I'm not really sure where to vote but a vote for me is a vote to kill an honest man.

[Sloonei]

Howdy, all. Delurking to encourage MP (and anyone on the fence) to vote anyone but me. I don't know all of the jargon yet so I'm not really sure where to vote but a vote for me is a vote to kill an honest man.

Hello, pleasure to meet you, NewTraditionalist. Don't worry about all our nonsense, that will come to you eventually. Right now all you need to worry about is introducing yourself. Tell us what your experience is with this game, what you're doing here, and then any first impressions you might have about any of us. We'd like to know you as much as you'd like to know us.

I am sloonei and I use this game to fulfill my fantasies about assigning people homework.

[Epignosis]

The one thing I would note is that Dom hasn't really said anything either, so why poke Spacedaisy and then a newcomer?

The timing of MP's "pressure vote" and Spacedaisy's reaction looks somewhat suspicious to me. Eleven minutes after MP posts, Spacedaisy reacts to it and puts a vote on MP.

I'm voting for @Spacedaisy because I want her to say things and she makes me nervous when she isn't posting.

If this came from anyone else I could excuse it, but this guy right here knows that I have barely been on the site in the last few days. He knows that I am juggling multiple writing projects in addition to two games. He knows I've been exhausted and slept a lot more than normal. So tell me why this guy says me being quiet is shady. No, I'm not buying this.

*votes MP*

Note that this is only her second post of the game. Her first was:

I'm here. I swear I am. Ok, maybe I just showed up. Maybe I haven't read anything yet. Maybe...

I am going to get a shower and then catch up.

There is roughly an eleven hour difference between the two posts. By my count, there were 52 posts between Spacedaisy's first and second posts, several of them quite meaty.

Here is my concern: Of all those 52 posts in just 11 minutes, how did Spacedaisy react to MP's harmless vote so quickly? It almost looks like she knew to respond to it- a fabricated, planned interaction between the two.

[Sloonei]

Because MP [mentioned] her in his post, so she got a notification and responded right away. She just did the same thing when I mentioned her a few minutes ago.

[speedchuck]

Scum likes people to talk, make cases, and get to the lynchy bits. So long as scum it's ISN'T getting lynched. I see nothing alignment indicative here. Along with the meta-read of BWT just ruining my case on him, I've placed him at null.

I'm not understanding this. Can you rephrase?

BWT made a move that would get people talking, perhaps spur some suspicions. Scum like people to do that, as long as the suspicions are not aimed at them. BWT's lie contributed to the discussion without throwing difficult shade his way or pointing fingers at anyone in particular.
An overly long way of saying: BWT contributed. It wasn't a town or scum move IMO.

lol, just realized there's a typo in my original post. I'll fixy that.

[speedchuck]

Because MP [mentioned] her in his post, so she got a notification and responded right away. She just did the same thing when I mentioned her a few minutes ago.

So why is she lurking enough to read notifications and respond but not posting anything else?

I could follow Epi down this rabbit hole, just to see if we find any foxes.

[Sloonei]

Because MP [mentioned] her in his post, so she got a notification and responded right away. She just did the same thing when I mentioned her a few minutes ago.

So why is she lurking enough to read notifications and respond but not posting anything else?

I could follow Epi down this rabbit hole, just to see if we find any foxes.

I don't have an answer for this, but I'd like to know what Daisy's is.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

About Epi: I cant read him to save myself. The way he is playing (tunneling on people for arbitrary reasons) is his MO regardlessly of alignment.

Im also skimming most of his argument with LC tbh.

He goes straight to my big neutral pile.

I wanna vote for one of MP, Nutella or LC.

Tell me about MP. I was just going to say that I want him and Epi to be discussed most of all right now. Epi for the reasons I highlighteated earlier, and MP because his reads seemed almost labored, if that's fair to say. He mostly seemed to just make passing observations at the level of activity of certain players without much intuitive or dynamic responses to events of the thread. I find the brief flare up between MP & Daisy to be particularly intriguing, though I'm not sure what to read into it yet. But any time two players who know each as closely as those two know each other are involved in something like that, it's worth taking note of.
It seems to me like Daisy took offense in MP's vote or saw something she did not like. It would he good to hear her follow-up thoughts on that whole episode. @Spacedaisy

Not more than what I already gave. Also at the risk of parroting them, seeing MP and Daisy poke each other makes me feel sus, because couples tend to be really good at reading each other from what Ive seen. My money is on one of them being bad.

[Sloonei]

Long Con, Epi, MP, and nutella are the suspects I am most heavily considering at this time. There are a few others but I'd rather they go unnamed for now. I need to leave for work in a few hours and I'm not settled on any one of them being a clear and definitive scum read who should earn my vote just yet. A decision will be forced out of me eventually, but I'd like it if we could all have more content to work with before then.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Im going to vote now because I dont know if I'll be here later. I am with my relatives and they demand socializing.

MP it is.

[Spacedaisy]

The one thing I would note is that Dom hasn't really said anything either, so why poke Spacedaisy and then a newcomer?

The timing of MP's "pressure vote" and Spacedaisy's reaction looks somewhat suspicious to me. Eleven minutes after MP posts, Spacedaisy reacts to it and puts a vote on MP.

I'm voting for @Spacedaisy because I want her to say things and she makes me nervous when she isn't posting.

If this came from anyone else I could excuse it, but this guy right here knows that I have barely been on the site in the last few days. He knows that I am juggling multiple writing projects in addition to two games. He knows I've been exhausted and slept a lot more than normal. So tell me why this guy says me being quiet is shady. No, I'm not buying this.

*votes MP*

Note that this is only her second post of the game. Her first was:

I'm here. I swear I am. Ok, maybe I just showed up. Maybe I haven't read anything yet. Maybe...

I am going to get a shower and then catch up.

There is roughly an eleven hour difference between the two posts. By my count, there were 52 posts between Spacedaisy's first and second posts, several of them quite meaty.

Here is my concern: Of all those 52 posts in just 11 minutes, how did Spacedaisy react to MP's harmless vote so quickly? It almost looks like she knew to respond to it- a fabricated, planned interaction between the two.

I can understand how it looks that way, timing wise, but it was purely coincidental. I was working yesterday and doing some training, so I was bored at the computer. I didn't intend on playing mafia or posting at all since I was not caught up but when i opened the site I had a notification from an @mention. I looked to see what he had said about me and responded according to my first reaction. Take it as you will. Now I am going to go back and catch up on the whole thread.

[Epignosis]

Yeah, that makes sense.

[DrWilgy]

OK what the hell did I come back to?

With classic BWT style and grace. I don't like it.

BWT, you state that LC is more bad than Epi. Why? Is LC's baddieness relative to Epi's the determining factor on him being scum? What about those who haven't been here? Like me, Quin, who for some reason you all are looking for.

I would ask you the same question, Wilgy. What do you think of the less-talked-about people?

That I am hungry and indifferent.

which players are you most hungry and indifferent about?

Most hungry for MP (don't tell his wife) most indifferent to Epignosis.

[DrWilgy]

Howdy, all. Delurking to encourage MP (and anyone on the fence) to vote anyone but me. I don't know all of the jargon yet so I'm not really sure where to vote but a vote for me is a vote to kill an honest man.

This is a lie.

[speedchuck]

Howdy, all. Delurking to encourage MP (and anyone on the fence) to vote anyone but me. I don't know all of the jargon yet so I'm not really sure where to vote but a vote for me is a vote to kill an honest man.

This is a lie.

Is it?

[Sloonei]

I am leaving my vote on Epi. Long Con and I both made the same observation about him in our respective defenses against his casing, and I observed him treating Spacedaisy in the same way earlier today (accusing her and MP of coordinating reactions, when it's evident she was simply responding to a notification). All of this looks like an Epi who is deliberately misconstruing facts in order to paint multiple players in a negative light. The possibility that he's doing this intentionally as a scum hunting tactic, to bait and draw reactions out of players, has been in my mind all day, but when it seems all of his game-related energy is committed to this tactic (from my perspective), I become less confident in his motivation.

I hope that you all carry on with the discussion about all of the names available to you as we wind down to the deadline. This is where my vote stands now, and I won't be able to offer anything else until night.

[NewTraditionalist]

Howdy, all. Delurking to encourage MP (and anyone on the fence) to vote anyone but me. I don't know all of the jargon yet so I'm not really sure where to vote but a vote for me is a vote to kill an honest man.

This is a lie.

Here's a vote.

[Sloonei]

Howdy, all. Delurking to encourage MP (and anyone on the fence) to vote anyone but me. I don't know all of the jargon yet so I'm not really sure where to vote but a vote for me is a vote to kill an honest man.

This is a lie.

Here's a vote.

Interesting. why'd you do this?

[speedchuck]

I'm curious: Where do you come from, [mention]NewTraditionalist[/mention] ?

Epi, do you still suspect me? Ever gonna follow through and elaborate why?

I feel like the day is going in circles, and I don't like that. Votes are spread, and I don't like that. I don't have anything with me to eat, and I don't like that.

Worst of all, though, I don't really have any town reads. This never happens. I usually just bandwagon on with a townie for the wins. Uhhhh.... Leaning toward voting Epi or LC, for info and thread-clearing clarify and decent odds that one of them are scum.

[Tangrowth]

I'm curious: Where do you come from, @NewTraditionalist ?

Epi, do you still suspect me? Ever gonna follow through and elaborate why?

I feel like the day is going in circles, and I don't like that. Votes are spread, and I don't like that. I don't have anything with me to eat, and I don't like that.

Worst of all, though, I don't really have any town reads. This never happens. I usually just bandwagon on with a townie for the wins. Uhhhh.... Leaning toward voting Epi or LC, for info and thread-clearing clarify and decent odds that one of them are scum.

I've got a town read on Epi. Could currently go either way for LC. Looking forward to Epi's meta analysis of LC's previous scum behavior.


-The thread is only 4 pages long, which means MP is probably scum.

-Spacedaisy and nutella are checking in and promising later content. If they don't deliver it, I'm going to see about lynching them.

-Do not like BWT's plan. I feel like we'd have better than 50% odds of lynching two townies with that.

-BWT himself seems to be at a lack for original content. Looking at his recent 4 posts, we have:
A jokey off-topic post, a post that puts LC and Epi as 'neutral' town, quotes of the start of the LC/Epi convo, and a weak vote on LC. Then back before that BWT had a post that almost word-for-word agreed with MP.
All of BWT's posts, except for the ones about info (that was obviously false), have been quotes, OT jokes, and near-exact parroting.

-Sloon and Epi look good to me. Those are my town reads.

Is sanmateo town or am I just biased because he is in mindmeld with me?

I'm voting speedchuck.

Don't have time for more at the moment, though I've been trying to skim to keep up because I'm going to be busy with PhD work all evening. Nonetheless I'll still be able to take a break close to EoD and will use that time to address other things. This just popped out at me and wanted it to be said now as opposed to at the last minute.

[Epignosis]

I am leaving my vote on Epi. Long Con and I both made the same observation about him in our respective defenses against his casing, and I observed him treating Spacedaisy in the same way earlier today (accusing her and MP of coordinating reactions, when it's evident she was simply responding to a notification). All of this looks like an Epi who is deliberately misconstruing facts in order to paint multiple players in a negative light. The possibility that he's doing this intentionally as a scum hunting tactic, to bait and draw reactions out of players, has been in my mind all day, but when it seems all of his game-related energy is committed to this tactic (from my perspective), I become less confident in his motivation.

I hope that you all carry on with the discussion about all of the names available to you as we wind down to the deadline. This is where my vote stands now, and I won't be able to offer anything else until night.

I accused you of acting like you were suspicious of Long Con while leaving yourself an out in order to avoid voting for him. You said:

I think it's pretty clear that my position on Long Con has not wavered.

Now you are voting for me when Long Con has two votes. I am sure I will receive a vote from Long Con, which will tie me up with him.

I don't think you were ever genuinely suspicious of Long Con, and the fact that you are using what I have said to reevaluate your stance on Long Con (instead of what LC himself has said) reinforces that thought:

I do not think this is an honest case from Epi, but that might just mean he's pushing my buttons to see how I'll react. However, this has given me just enough pause to make me reconsider my stance on Epi and, by extension, LC as well. I'll see where my head is at in the morning, but I wanted to get this out before going to sleep.

[Epignosis]

I won't be able to offer anything else until night.

Like a kill?

[Epignosis]

I'm curious: Where do you come from, @NewTraditionalist ?

Epi, do you still suspect me? Ever gonna follow through and elaborate why?

I feel like the day is going in circles, and I don't like that. Votes are spread, and I don't like that. I don't have anything with me to eat, and I don't like that.

Worst of all, though, I don't really have any town reads. This never happens. I usually just bandwagon on with a townie for the wins. Uhhhh.... Leaning toward voting Epi or LC, for info and thread-clearing clarify and decent odds that one of them are scum.

Suspect? I have no reason to think you are a civilian, I'll just say that.

I do think it's naive at best and suspicious at worst for you to claim that you will clear me or LC by lynching one of us. It's naive because it assumes LC and I are not capable of manufacturing this back and forth if we are both bad. It's suspicious because it sets you up with an easy vote tomorrow if we are both civilians.

[DrWilgy]

Howdy, all. Delurking to encourage MP (and anyone on the fence) to vote anyone but me. I don't know all of the jargon yet so I'm not really sure where to vote but a vote for me is a vote to kill an honest man.

This is a lie.

Here's a vote.

Why?

[sanmateo]

MP it is.

isnt that convenient

[sanmateo]

i'm looking at this mp bandwagon and it just looks like bullshit. if he's scum spacedaisy is probably scum as well but it's not exactly a solid vote. wilgy's vote could literally mean anything. and ddl has once again gone on a bandwagon, i understand that he's sequestered meeting family, friends and loved ones and he can't yell at strangers online (aka the best thing in the world) or whatever, but am i going insane? he's done this twice

[Spacedaisy]

Ooookay. I have read everything.

1. Long Con vs. Epi... reading this same basic argument every freaking game you guys play together can be summed up as follows:

Gut reaction to it is that Epi's initial comment regarding LC seemed flimsy. LC's actions after that, in particular his late claim that it was a joke seem even flimsier. Also Epi's meta case is the same basic thing he has made against LC in every game I have played with the both of them. So I am over reading these two. I don't know who is good or who is bad. One, neither, hell maybe even both. I'm just done with that. Neither one is likely to convince me of the other being bad. if I become convinced one of them is bad it will likely be because of some other action or something unrelated because I think it's all just a big rivalry now. One I don't care about. Enjoy your pissing contest boys. I'm out on that one.

2. MP, sorry but my vote is remaining where it is. I think you are bad after I have read everything. Here is why. My gut reaction to you was why does it make you nervous I'm quiet when you know for a fact i have not even read the thread? Your post seemed questionable. I backed off because yes, you did say you wanted me to say things. But when I read the thread I got this feeling that you are mostly town reading folks. Me, Epi, speedchuck, bwt, etc. The few you have baddie read are Sloonei, who you are clearly giving a very soft baddie read to, and LC who has the most attention of anyone so far. The easy choice. I know you can't devote the time you would have in the past, but gut reading doesn't take time, only cutting back on your infamous walls of text. And the thing with describing bwt's meta. First you declare him good, then you say only a post or two later you can't read him. My dear, I believe you are bad. And my vote is not moving.

No one else has made any real good or bad impact on me. uh, wait except speedchuck. This is a gut read I can't explain well but I am feeling town there.

if I am right about MP, I would say either Sloonei or LC is his baddie teammate. If I'm wrong... I don't even know.

[DrWilgy]

Daisy what do you make of MP's vote?

[DrWilgy]

Sanmanteo, I respect your vote. You should vote Speedchuck.

[Spacedaisy]

I didn't pay attention to where he voted until you asked. He moves it so much with his pressure votes, until he votes for real I don't think much of it. It's meaningless. It wasn't even his vote for me that got me suspicious it was what he said by way of explanation.

Why do you suspect speedchuck? I see your vote is on him too? Perhaps I need to ISO him and reconsider how I am feeling, I don't know. I'm open to hearing a case though.

[Spacedaisy]

Also, why did you so strongly speak out against NewTraditionalist? I liked his response btw, the vote for you for calling him a liar seemed consistent with someone who is civ and had someone lie about them. I figured you were just being typical Wilgy, shaking things up. Was I correct in reading it that way or is there more to it?

[DrWilgy]

I didn't pay attention to where he voted until you asked. He moves it so much with his pressure votes, until he votes for real I don't think much of it. It's meaningless. It wasn't even his vote for me that got me suspicious it was what he said by way of explanation.

Why do you suspect speedchuck? I see your vote is on him too? Perhaps I need to ISO him and reconsider how I am feeling, I don't know. I'm open to hearing a case though.

No, I'm not suspicious of speedchuck. I am pretty sure we are lynching a townie if you don't move your vote.

Linki - no, he's a liar. There are no honest people in this game or in life. It's a harsh truth.

[sanmateo]

i feel pretty dumb trying to keep track of who moves their votes and when

[DrWilgy]

i feel pretty dumb trying to keep track of who moves their votes and when

Then trust me and move your vote. If you disagree, why?

[sanmateo]

yeah, i think speedchuck came in and voted for mp and then left. which is extremely weird unless i skipped over his name when i posted above but i remember there were 3 votes on mp.

[sanmateo]

did wilgy even vote for mp at some point?

[DrWilgy]

did wilgy even vote for mp at some point?

I did.

[sanmateo]

alright well, i might change it because at least ddl kind of said why they were voting for mp. i suppose i could be overlooking mp's tells but has anyone even made a case against him? voting for lurkers isnt really that sus. the LC bandwagon made more sense and that was pretty weak