[ENDGAME] Seinfeld Mafia

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Which theme should be next in my TV sitcom Heist series?

Friends [Sockpuppets]
4
44%
Friends [Regular Accounts]
2
22%
Malcolm in the Middle [Sockpuppets]
0
No votes
Malcolm in the Middle [Regular Accounts]
0
No votes
Scrubs [Sockpuppets]
2
22%
Scrubs [Regular Accounts]
0
No votes
OTHER (please post suggestion in-thread) [Sockpuppets]
0
No votes
OTHER (please post suggestion in-thread) [Regular Accounts]
0
No votes
I don't care!
1
11%
 
Total votes: 9
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November
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1001

Post by November »

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:45 pm Of the four names in the "pool" entering today, I think the strongest case for each being civilian is as follows:

Frank Constanza
~ His chosen strategy of tunneling George all game long hasn't helped him to earn trust, but he hasn't abandoned it. This may evidence sincerity.
~ He didn't interact with Whatley or Bania even a single time prior to D4.
~ I think his D4 interactions with Whatley help him more than hurt him.
~ At the end of D4, he named Peterman as the most likely civilian in the POE pool -- the same guy who should logically be his mislynch teddy if he's mafia.

How compelling is this? Decently compelling.

George Costanza
~ He's been the most active and engaged player among the four.
~ It's plausible enough to consider that Jackie may have left him dangling as a low-hanging fruit in his post history.
~ Whatley's early reception of George's D4 burst of activity looks resigned rather than supportive.

How compelling is this? Barely compelling.

J Peterman
~ He has the lowest post count of the four, and hasn't seemed to care all that much about the pressure he's faced all game.
~ He left his vote alone on me (instead of a more viable counterwagon) throughout D3 when he ought to have been expecting his own demise, before Elaine's tracker reveal.

How compelling is this? Not very compelling.

Uncle Leo
~ At face value, I think his contributions have appeared the most genuine of the four.
~ His self-vote maneuver on D4 significantly increased his likelihood of being lynched (even after he moved his vote back to Whatley). If he's mafia, he must be the godfather, and this would mean he was putting his own critical role at serious risk to save/distance from Whatley -- with the potential of clearing Frank. There's questionable strategy and there's nonsense.

How compelling is this? Quite compelling.

I encourage anyone else to provide additional reasons, or to contest the reasons I provided, as you see fit.
What does this mean?
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1002

Post by Julinook »

It's my interpretation of this:
Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Thu Oct 19, 2017 11:56 pm
Tim Whatley wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:06 pm 2) My reads of George are tonal. I just don't read him as mafia, even recent posts I read tonally as civ, but the problem I have is that I know there's some bias. Part of me wants to believe he's civ because I want to be right on that judgment call. The same bias applies to you and Elaine. I don't think we had a tie between two mafia, so I'm excluding Peterman.
This kind of looks like Whatley responding begrudgingly to George's D4 explosion the only way he believably could -- by acknowledging that it's a good look for him. He left a little room for a turn with that "bias" comment which may have developed into stronger fake suspicion in an eventual LyLo. Decent look for George.
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1003

Post by November »

I see what you are saying and agree with it.
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1004

Post by Julinook »

Do you think I'm wise to remove Leo from the POE given the data at hand?
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1005

Post by November »

Leo is fourth on my list of four possible bad guys. I don't see myself casting a vote for him at any point in this game.
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1006

Post by November »

The Costanzas are still wrestling on my floor for those second and third spots though.
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1007

Post by Julinook »

[mention]Uncle Leo[/mention], I hope you're able to talk with us about Frank and George soon. There's a very real chance that [if it's not Peterman], you'll be the one trapped in a 3v1 or 2v1 LyLo with both Costanzas and faced with that decision.
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1008

Post by Julinook »

I'll also state re: George that I have had an intuition all game long about who's behind the sock -- and if I'm right it makes me more suspicious. It's risky to bank on that, but it's in my head.
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1009

Post by Julinook »

Good lord, I still have 40 girlfriends left. I'm never going to make it through them all. I am such a dog. Anyway, tonight's babe is Courtney "Meryl" Cox, my temporary fake dry-cleaning discount wife.
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1010

Post by Julinook »

I may cheat on her with Rachel though. She's a favorite of George's.

Image
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1011

Post by Larry David »

I'll be at a music festival all weekend starting this afternoon with limited time to check in here, but so it goes. And figures :P
Responses to things I'm seeing:

1) My low post count is a combination of my meta and my busyness this game. I estimated how busy and unengaged I would be in this game, but I still signed up, and I underestimated it. So it goes. Excuses, excuses, but an explanation not alignment-related.

2) My attempt to understand Jerry's paradigm (whatever he's calling it) is genuine, but also through the eyes of someone who has time some days to briefly read the thread, and no time on other days to even think about mafia. So my explanation was through the understanding I currently have, and I still don't quite understand it, but I'm getting there.

And this?
Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:29 pm
J Peterman wrote: Thu Oct 19, 2017 7:25 pm
George Steinbrenner wrote: Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:04 pm
J Peterman wrote: Thu Oct 19, 2017 5:58 pm Just to be clear, I misunderstood Jerry's question about Frank, but left the thread last night before I saw my mistake until now. I was well aware of the Frank check, but the question in context was right after Frank had posted an opinion, so I responded as such. Whoopsie.
I don't care about this. Tell me who's bad.
I already did. Yesterday.
Yesterday was a different game. Who's bad now?
Not me. Judging by my last suspicions, and since I was right yesterday about Whatley, going with Frank.
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1012

Post by Julinook »

I'm always listening, [mention]J Peterman[/mention]. Could you express what your primary concerns are with Frank?
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1013

Post by Paul Stevens »

Gonna be occupied for most of the weekend starting very soon. Peterman, that vote on me is as rotten as a week-old herring. I didn't think you were bad, and I know I'm not bad, so why go for me other than that I'm the number two suspect on Jerry's list and thus the easiest mislynch?

It's got to be either George or Peterman, then. I'm good, and Uncle Leo's weirdo self-vote actually worked to help lynch a baddie.
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1014

Post by November »

Frank Costanza wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:27 pm Gonna be occupied for most of the weekend starting very soon. Peterman, that vote on me is as rotten as a week-old herring. I didn't think you were bad, and I know I'm not bad, so why go for me other than that I'm the number two suspect on Jerry's list and thus the easiest mislynch?

It's got to be either George or Peterman, then. I'm good, and Uncle Leo's weirdo self-vote actually worked to help lynch a baddie.
If you put on your investigative pants and have to choose one or the other, is it George or is it Peterman?
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1015

Post by November »

Peterman, I appreciate your efforts in spite of time constraints and know how difficult that can be. However, your low activity has very little to do with my reasons for suspecting you and, as such, your apology does nothing to sway me. I know you feel behind, but the best thing you can do (for my sake, at least) is to dive into the content being thrown around in this thread right now.
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1016

Post by Julinook »

Frank Costanza wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:27 pm Gonna be occupied for most of the weekend starting very soon. Peterman, that vote on me is as rotten as a week-old herring. I didn't think you were bad, and I know I'm not bad, so why go for me other than that I'm the number two suspect on Jerry's list and thus the easiest mislynch?

It's got to be either George or Peterman, then. I'm good, and Uncle Leo's weirdo self-vote actually worked to help lynch a baddie.
Why vote for George after making this observation?
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1017

Post by Spooky Ghost »

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:15 pm I'll also state re: George that I have had an intuition all game long about who's behind the sock -- and if I'm right it makes me more suspicious. It's risky to bank on that, but it's in my head.
Hey hey heyyy, we're not allowed to speculate post revelation cos if we were allowed, which we're not, I'd be voting for you right now on the basis of knowing what your puppetmaster is capable of. :faint:
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1018

Post by Spooky Ghost »

I got some catching up to do.

Some notes:
1. I haven't had a good game. I've never been this distracted IRL and played a game before, so to claim it's my worst yet is an understatement. HOWEVER, I haven't given up despite being dead wrong in my initial intuition leaning towards Leo (and gosh damn it is hard when people don't post so much and when they do post their characters are sleazy and creepy and have weird eyebrows), I still feel something off with Frank. Maybe because I hate being wrong and I'm just stubborn or whatever, but I can't shake it off.
2. Why was my EOD4 so bad, Jerry? I mean, more so than my usual?
3. I genuinely got upset when Whatley flipped. I was happy we caught a scum of course, but really felt bad about my reads. When I posted that post about how it's not possible to have 2 cops? Elaine made fun of me, but that was me feeling dumbfounded and genuinely bad at how wrong I was about someone. Right after I'd gotten it wrong about Leo too.
4. I think most of the basis to why I would vote for Peterman at this point is because he's someone who's been as confused and absent as Whatley. On the other hand, Frank isn't that much better but he is still a tad better + he was ID'd civ by our cop so the misfortune of targeting a dead player on night 1 and the godfather on night 2 is only something I'm capable of I think.
5. I have more thoughts. And I have more time. I will share more thoughts as they arise.
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1019

Post by Julinook »

George Costanza wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:12 pm I got some catching up to do.

Some notes:
1. I haven't had a good game. I've never been this distracted IRL and played a game before, so to claim it's my worst yet is an understatement. HOWEVER, I haven't given up despite being dead wrong in my initial intuition leaning towards Leo (and gosh damn it is hard when people don't post so much and when they do post their characters are sleazy and creepy and have weird eyebrows), I still feel something off with Frank. Maybe because I hate being wrong and I'm just stubborn or whatever, but I can't shake it off.
I sounds like you've conclusively decided that Leo is a civilian. I'd be interested to hear about what leads you to that read.
George Costanza wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:12 pm 2. Why was my EOD4 so bad, Jerry? I mean, more so than my usual?

3. I genuinely got upset when Whatley flipped. I was happy we caught a scum of course, but really felt bad about my reads. When I posted that post about how it's not possible to have 2 cops? Elaine made fun of me, but that was me feeling dumbfounded and genuinely bad at how wrong I was about someone. Right after I'd gotten it wrong about Leo too.
These are related so I'll answer together. I can easily forgive you for being wrong about Whatley. I don't think that's a good reason to suspect somebody, at least not at face value -- indeed, civilians are inherently prone to wrongness given their lack of information. That's the point! However, I am concerned that your efforts at the very end of Day 4 were so kind to Whatley that I am forced to question your sincerity. You went to some trouble to supply a civilian read in that case, and it could have swayed the lynch permanently onto Leo (and if Leo is a civilian that sends us to LyLo).

However, I'll also state that I am more concerned about your reception of the Jackie Chiles analyses than anything else. The arguments you raised are familiar to me, and in the wrong way.
George Costanza wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:12 pm4. I think most of the basis to why I would vote for Peterman at this point is because he's someone who's been as confused and absent as Whatley. On the other hand, Frank isn't that much better but he is still a tad better + he was ID'd civ by our cop so the misfortune of targeting a dead player on night 1 and the godfather on night 2 is only something I'm capable of I think.
Given that the last mafioso must be a godfather mechanically speaking, the civilian ID on Frank is no longer relevant. The cop could ID any player remaining right now and the result would be civilian for everyone.

~~~

Most importantly, your cases for and against the other players in the suspect pool is what is likely to decide how I read you (and Steinbrenner too perhaps among others). The merit and usefulness of self-defense has is minimal at this point.
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1020

Post by Principal Skinner »

Beginning thoughts on Frank, Peterman, and George. It's a work in process but I wanted to get it up now. This is based on votes and isolated posts. If something I mention here has been addressed, please kindly direct me to it and I will reply.

Frank:

Day 1 he votes Kramer, night 1 Kramer is killed. He had a target in mind maybe?
Frank Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:18 pm I think you're all barking up the wrong tree with the Soup Nazi, and I'll be a monkey's ass if I let him go down. Already didn't like that Puddy guy, so here goes nothing. *votes David Puddy*
Misdirection to make an easy case for being on the regrettable Puddy bandwagon?

Day 4 a vote for Jackie, along with Tim Whatley --- decision to sacrifice for appearances’ sake?
Frank Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:35 pm Alright, I'm back, SERENITY NOW'ed, and ready to vote for George now that Jerry has also seen the light. Will look at Whately just to be fair.

<snip>

In summary, I still think George is a stronger suspect based on what he's said about Estelle and Jackie.
He will look at Whatley just to be fair. That’s nice.
Frank Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:22 pm It looks like nobody else is going on George, so I'll switch to Whatley. I can see the argument for him being bad, even though my gut says he's not. And obviously my gut has been wrong on several different occasions this game.
Ends up switching because his George claim didn’t gain traction but was smart enough to leave it open by saying “his gut” does not agree with Whatley being bad (just in case tides turned again and Whatley was taken off the chopping block).



Peterman:

Day 1 vote for civ Newman, however it was alongside 1 definite civ and 2 more than likely civilians. Could scream innocent townie mistake a la Kramer/Stein/Jerry.

Day 2 vote for Puddy – WITH Frank. That makes it tricky for me.

Day 3 for Jerry.. understandable. I am sure we have all thought about voting for Jerry at one point or another.

Day 4 for Tim with the majority.

To me, Frank & Tim voting Jackie feels more mafia than Peterman’s vote on Tim.

As far as voting records, I give the mafia edge to Frank. Perhaps because it is similar my own and I am INNOCENT!!

Also:
J Peterman wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:43 pm
<snip>

Uncle Leo - Uncle Leo, why don't you like me? I see you voted me because I haven't said much and I had a bad vote. Haven't we all had a bad vote? But what I do like about Leo is, he's not afraid to go after anyone, no matter how "cleared" they may appear.

<snip>

So, from what I've gathered, I'm happiest to vote George, Whatley, or Frank today. And maybe Leo. But less likely Leo.
His questioning of me seems genuine and I like it.


George:

Day 1 vote Soup
Day 2 Leo
Day 3 Leo
Day 4 Frank

Outlier votes. Never voted with the majority. Don’t know what to make of that exactly.
George Costanza wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:12 pm I got some catching up to do.

Some notes:
1. I haven't had a good game. I've never been this distracted IRL and played a game before, so to claim it's my worst yet is an understatement. HOWEVER, I haven't given up despite being dead wrong in my initial intuition leaning towards Leo (and gosh damn it is hard when people don't post so much and when they do post their characters are sleazy and creepy and have weird eyebrows), I still feel something off with Frank. Maybe because I hate being wrong and I'm just stubborn or whatever, but I can't shake it off.
Okay first, HARSH George, HARSH. But - at least he has been consistent with his distaste and distrust for me. Consistency is something.
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1021

Post by Principal Skinner »

Also based on the above, moving my vote to Frank. Willing to change it up before EOD.
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1022

Post by Julinook »

Consistency is easy. Frank has been "consistent" against George. It means nothing to me.

Also, I'd call George's outlier votes a distinctly bad thing.
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1023

Post by Principal Skinner »

Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:28 pm Consistency is easy. Frank has been "consistent" against George. It means nothing to me.

Also, I'd call George's outlier votes a distinctly bad thing.
I can definitely see that. That was actually my initial reaction but the more I thought about it the less I really knew.

I actually thought that George did not make the move to me (it was a very busy half hour) but looking back through, I see he actually did move to me.
George Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:10 pm
Tim Whatley wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:07 pm I voted Uncle Leo. It's the only vote I feel good about placing right now.
If no one is going to go with Frank, I'll vote for Leo too as he's my second suspect.
So he's on the Leo bandwagon. Mafia thinking they are about to get old Uncle Leo out?

then this:
George Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 7:12 pm Whatley voting for Leo and not voting for me (to bring the votes 3 against each of us) also reads townie move to me tbh. He had all the reason to build a case and vote for me with Jackie cross references but he chose not to.
So first he moves his vote to go for a Leo Lynch and then defends Whatley (who turned out to be "scum").

Hmmm... Perhaps the consistent suspicion for me all along was to support the ease with which he moved his vote on Day 4.

So for me:

Frank/George: would be comfortable with a vote for either at this point
Peterman: not comfortable with a vote at this point

Also, in my post #1020, I meant to say Day *3* Frank votes for Jackie with Whatley.

Jerry, you calling George's outlier votes a "distinctly bad thing" makes me re-examine this:
Frank Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:22 pm It looks like nobody else is going on George, so I'll switch to Whatley. I can see the argument for him being bad, even though my gut says he's not. And obviously my gut has been wrong on several different occasions this game.
Perhaps it's genuine and his "gut" is just a hedging of bets.

Obviously I have more research to do.
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1024

Post by Julinook »

I appreciate the input Leo. I'm definitely thinking over what you've said. I may not be able to say much here until tomorrow afternoon.
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1025

Post by November »

I should ISO Georgey Boy.
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1026

Post by Julinook »

I think it's George. My intuition is pointing hard in that direction. He is the owner of the most suspicious posts in this thread, he looks bad next to Jackie, and he was bad with Whatley at EOD4.

I don't think it's Frank. It can still be Peterman.

Get thereal mafioso in a POE of two and the game is over.

I'm going to be away for much of the afternoon. I will try my best to be available in the evening, but I can't make guarantees. I'll be relying on my phone.
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1027

Post by Julinook »

I've decided that my vote will be George or Peterman at day's end. Please continue to talk it all over. As long as there's a two-vote margin when it's over there can be no shenanigans.
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1028

Post by November »

George Costanza wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:12 pm I got some catching up to do.

Some notes:
1. I haven't had a good game. I've never been this distracted IRL and played a game before, so to claim it's my worst yet is an understatement. HOWEVER, I haven't given up despite being dead wrong in my initial intuition leaning towards Leo (and gosh damn it is hard when people don't post so much and when they do post their characters are sleazy and creepy and have weird eyebrows), I still feel something off with Frank. Maybe because I hate being wrong and I'm just stubborn or whatever, but I can't shake it off.
Considering this admission, George is a prime candidate for bussing. A mafia player who is too busy to keep up with the game will, in my experience, usually welcome their teammates to bus them, or at least stand down from resisting it.
Both Jackie and Whatley turned abruptly on George as a leading suspect around Night 2/Day 3:
Tim Whatley wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:17 pm
George Steinbrenner wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:12 pm Do you think it would be unwise for power roles to claim at this point in the game?
Depends really. There are too many variables in play still.

@George Costanza Where are you and where is your head at? Why did you vote the Soup Nazi day 1 but not day 2? You did say you had a bad feeling about him.
Tim Whatley wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:24 pm I guess I should share where my head is at if I am to ask this of others. Joining in Day 2 I was very much fixated on Elaine and Jerry. So much so that I've decided to take a step back and review other leads and questions I have.

I'm curious about the Soup Nazi and Stein voters from day 1. I'm reviewing them now.

I could currently vote for Costanza or Elaine.

Jerry, I'm unsure what to think. Truth be told, I'm unsure if I'm suspicious of Jerry, or just afraid.
Jackie Chiles wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:52 pm No problem, Mr Seinfeld. I used the time I had, and I had to stop. Just got home from the office, and I'm going to get back to it.

George Costanza looks the worst from my analysis so far.
His analysis
Jackie did name George as a "distant third" suspect on Night 1, but the dramatic turn came around Night 2/Day 3, roughly the same time as Whatley. I could see George permitting his teammates behind the scenes to go after him to earn some townie points and free him from the commitment to this game. If this was the strategy employed, it completely backfired.
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Re: [DAY 3] Seinfeld Mafia

#1029

Post by November »

Jackie Chiles wrote: Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:19 am
George Costanza wrote: Thu Oct 12, 2017 5:46 pm Jackie has been quiet.
Just catching up now, Mr Costanza. Sorry for my absence, but in Real Life I was hospitalized with a chest infection last night. I'm home now, and getting right back to business.
George Costanza wrote: Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:23 pm
Jackie Chiles wrote: Sat Oct 14, 2017 10:52 pm No problem, Mr Seinfeld. I used the time I had, and I had to stop. Just got home from the office, and I'm going to get back to it.

George Costanza looks the worst from my analysis so far.
Care to elaborate, Jackie? Perhaps I can ease your concerns if I had more content to go by and address your issues.
Jackie and George both prodded each other, and both responded casually to the other. Without any sense of nervousness or defense. I could see these being teammate interactions. Especially in George's case, as most of the other time he has responded to suspicion with some occasionally severe back-against-the-wall type defense. An example
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#1030

Post by Spooky Ghost »

Frank Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:35 pm
Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:24 pm
Frank Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:22 pm It looks like nobody else is going on George, so I'll switch to Whatley. I can see the argument for him being bad, even though my gut says he's not. And obviously my gut has been wrong on several different occasions this game.
Is there anyone for whom you cannot see the argument for their being bad? Disregard Elaine, Steinbrenner, and I.
Other than me? I think Peterman is having fun roleplaying and isn't worried enough to be mafia. Anyone else is fair game, particularly Leo for that self-vote nonsense.

Linki: WTH?
Linki: And my gut was wrong! Hooray for listening to people!
The Hooray for listening to people! rubs me the wrong way. It's like he's really trying to blend in and be non-confrontational or cause alarm towards himself. :ninja:
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#1031

Post by Spooky Ghost »

George Steinbrenner wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:46 pm I do not like Frank's game-long tunneling of George, but I have to ask myself whether I think it's something that a scum player would do. He's been calling for George's lynch since Day 1, but has not yet provided any really substantial case for why it should happen. That almost seems too bold to be a scum strategy.
His reasons are because I suspected my mother, who seemed unsuspicious to everyone else and flipped and of course Jackie's parting words on how I'm scum.

Again, if we take into account Jackie named three players: me, Elaine and Frank. Since Elaine is confirmed town, and I know I'm town, that leaves Frank. Is it possible Jackie named three townies? Yes... But it seems a little less likely when he had two other team mates to keep both of them in one group. This is just one reason to why I feel Frank is suspect.
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Re: [DAY 1] Seinfeld Mafia

#1032

Post by November »

I don't like any of this post:
George Costanza wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:27 pm
George Steinbrenner wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:12 pm His language regarding the Puddy suspicion is a bit aggressive here as well. "Obsession" and "trying to say" tell me that George is trying to suggest some sinister intentions from Jerry. Or he could just be seeking more elaboration. Either way, I feel like pointing out an apparent shift in his position just two posts later:
I would like to clarify that I was not being aggressive here and my "What's the obsession with Puddy?" question wasn't directed to Jerry specifically, but several people in the thread were talking about him and he generally didn't catch my eye so I wanted to know what people were implying or trying to imply.
Downplays the alleged aggression in this post from Day 1 by explaining that Jerry was not the sole target of this interrogation, but the "obsession" line still reads as aggressive phrasing. "What are you trying to say?" is more open to interpretation, but something about this response and the original post seems incongruous to me.
George Steinbrenner wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:12 pm
George Costanza wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:46 pm I'm feeling good about you people
Kramer
George Steinbrenner
Uncle Leo
Jerry
Jackie

I got bad feelings about you people
Elaine
The Soup Nazi
Estelle
Dad

I got no feelings about the rest of ya.
In the above post George is hinting at tension with Jerry, but here he puts him on his "good" list. 3/4 of his bad list are now confirmed or near-confirmed town, with the possibility of a fourth if Frank is not the godfather. The revealed scum is listed as good.
Yeah, but this list was right after Night 1. I changed my stance on Elaine and The Soup Nazi and brought Uncle Leo into my suspect pool.

My Day 1 vote was not a heavily built up case; I was going by role play and did not feel Newman's outcries were insincere so I couldn't jump on the bandwagon, even though it would probably have made me seem less suspicious in some ways.

I still stand by my intuition that Uncle Leo isn't open, and his contributions have been very wary/safe, avoiding real opposition or conflict.
TheThe first line is worthless. My criticism was about this particular list of suspects that George made on Day or Night 1. I am not interested in how those reads developed from here, I am interested in what they were at this exact moment. But George deflects it by saying "Yeah but that changed." This is totally irrelevant to me.
The middle paragraph might be my least favorite thing anyone has said in this game, and I pointed it out at the time. "I couldn't jump on the bandwagon, even though it would probably have made me seem less suspicious in some ways." Gross. Yuck. This gives the impression that George's primary concern on Day 1 was casting a vote that would not make him look bad. There are three players in the game who would be employing a strategy like this, and they're the three players we're all trying to lynch. He doesn't want to be a part of a bandwagon that he knows won't look good because he wants to look good. Not because Newman is a bad lynch or anyone else is a better one, but for the sake of appearances.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#1033

Post by November »

George Costanza wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:55 pm
Frank Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:35 pm
Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:24 pm
Frank Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 8:22 pm It looks like nobody else is going on George, so I'll switch to Whatley. I can see the argument for him being bad, even though my gut says he's not. And obviously my gut has been wrong on several different occasions this game.
Is there anyone for whom you cannot see the argument for their being bad? Disregard Elaine, Steinbrenner, and I.
Other than me? I think Peterman is having fun roleplaying and isn't worried enough to be mafia. Anyone else is fair game, particularly Leo for that self-vote nonsense.

Linki: WTH?
Linki: And my gut was wrong! Hooray for listening to people!
The Hooray for listening to people! rubs me the wrong way. It's like he's really trying to blend in and be non-confrontational or cause alarm towards himself. :ninja:
Hey George, tell me how that highlighted section makes sense if Frank is scum.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#1034

Post by November »

George Costanza wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:59 pm
George Steinbrenner wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:46 pm I do not like Frank's game-long tunneling of George, but I have to ask myself whether I think it's something that a scum player would do. He's been calling for George's lynch since Day 1, but has not yet provided any really substantial case for why it should happen. That almost seems too bold to be a scum strategy.
His reasons are because I suspected my mother, who seemed unsuspicious to everyone else and flipped and of course Jackie's parting words on how I'm scum.

Again, if we take into account Jackie named three players: me, Elaine and Frank. Since Elaine is confirmed town, and I know I'm town, that leaves Frank. Is it possible Jackie named three townies? Yes... But it seems a little less likely when he had two other team mates to keep both of them in one group. This is just one reason to why I feel Frank is suspect.
I'd like to hear all the reasons.
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1035

Post by November »

I think I can comfortably narrow my POE down to George and Peterman at this point as well. Frank's gameplay has been at times frustrating from the perspective of someone who's trying to analyze him, but I see very little room to interpret his behavior as distinctly villainish. Leo has been eliminated for reasons previously stated.
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#1036

Post by Spooky Ghost »

George Costanza wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:59 pm
George Steinbrenner wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:46 pm I do not like Frank's game-long tunneling of George, but I have to ask myself whether I think it's something that a scum player would do. He's been calling for George's lynch since Day 1, but has not yet provided any really substantial case for why it should happen. That almost seems too bold to be a scum strategy.
His reasons are because I suspected my mother, who seemed unsuspicious to everyone else and flipped and of course Jackie's parting words on how I'm scum.

Again, if we take into account Jackie named three players: me, Elaine and Frank. Since Elaine is confirmed town, and I know I'm town, that leaves Frank. Is it possible Jackie named three townies? Yes... But it seems a little less likely when he had two other team mates to keep both of them in one group. This is just one reason to why I feel Frank is suspect.
This would possibly also be a strong reason why Frank suspects me, in the event he is townie.
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Re: [DAY 1] Seinfeld Mafia

#1037

Post by November »

George Costanza wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:41 pm
George Steinbrenner wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:33 pm
George Costanza wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2017 3:27 pm
My Day 1 vote was not a heavily built up case; I was going by role play and did not feel Newman's outcries were insincere so I couldn't jump on the bandwagon, even though it would probably have made me seem less suspicious in some ways.
why are you concerned with appearing unsuspicious?
Hey now, don't go nitpicking my words. I'm just saying I could play the game easier, I could be more agreeable, I could be less vocal, I could bandwagon, but I don't feel I've done any of that. I'm sitting here going through Kenny Bania and Peterman's contributions because I actually care.
This isn't exactly a rousing defense of my initial criticism of George's previous post. Just more of the same, really. "I could be doing all sorts of shady things, but look at me not doing those things!" This doesn't strike me as a very townie mindset. Something like "I didn't vote Newman because x, and Player B was more suspicious because y" would have been a much more natural response than "I don't want to look bad."
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#1038

Post by November »

George Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:10 pm Not because I believe Whatley is mafia, though, I don't see it (especially based on Kenny Bania's attitude--yeah, all 3 posts of them--read more like vanilla townie to me) but because this is a team effort and I want to be a team player.
I read the same tone in this post as well. "I'm voting for Whatley because it will make me look good."
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#1039

Post by November »

George Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:27 pm lol.

You literally voted for me after analyzing my interactions with Jackie. You can call it whatever you want, I think it's weak. Sorry if that upset you but it doesn't change my mind.
George's criticism of Jerry's initial vote from him after lynching Jackie is something that will never make sense to me. Jerry did some pretty heavy lifting and analyzed a ton of content, posted all of his findings in the thread, and then came out with a vote for George. George's response was to call that a lazy and terrible vote. Huh?
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Re: [DAY 4] Seinfeld Mafia

#1040

Post by November »

George Costanza wrote: Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:57 pm The fact Peterman isn't even aware of the civ read on Frank is as interesting as Whatley not knowing that Steinbrenner is the "cop"
I made the same observation as George here, but while he seems to have followed it to a scum pairing of Whatley/Frank, I followed it to a pairing of Whatley/Peterman. I'd like to know how your thoughts have developed from here, George.
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1041

Post by November »

Moved my vote to George. I do not expect to be here for the EOD proceedings again. George can easily put his vote on Frank to force a tie at this point. [mention]J Peterman[/mention] [mention]Uncle Leo[/mention], please be cautious and considerate of where you place your votes. If the town splits its votes, then the remaining mafia can just force a tie and put this lynch in the hands of a coin or something.
If we are going to split the votes, I'd rather it be on the two players I suspect most. I'd rather not split the votes at all.
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1042

Post by Spooky Ghost »

Sorry guys, I'm on a deadline with a work project report. I promise I'll address as much as I can before end of day.
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1043

Post by November »

George Costanza wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:40 pm Sorry guys, I'm on a deadline with a work project report. I promise I'll address as much as I can before end of day.
The Penske file?
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1044

Post by Spooky Ghost »

George Steinbrenner wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:39 pm Moved my vote to George. I do not expect to be here for the EOD proceedings again. George can easily put his vote on Frank to force a tie at this point. @J Peterman @Uncle Leo, please be cautious and considerate of where you place your votes. If the town splits its votes, then the remaining mafia can just force a tie and put this lynch in the hands of a coin or something.
If we are going to split the votes, I'd rather it be on the two players I suspect most. I'd rather not split the votes at all.
You're making a mistake. I will address your posts, and hope you can show up and read them before EOD.
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1045

Post by November »

George Costanza wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:43 pm
George Steinbrenner wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:39 pm Moved my vote to George. I do not expect to be here for the EOD proceedings again. George can easily put his vote on Frank to force a tie at this point. @J Peterman @Uncle Leo, please be cautious and considerate of where you place your votes. If the town splits its votes, then the remaining mafia can just force a tie and put this lynch in the hands of a coin or something.
If we are going to split the votes, I'd rather it be on the two players I suspect most. I'd rather not split the votes at all.
You're making a mistake. I will address your posts, and hope you can show up and read them before EOD.
That's what everyone keeps telling me when I vote for them.
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1046

Post by November »

Jerry Seinfeld
Uncle Leo
Frank Costanza
J Peterman
George Costanza


I do not advise lynching Frank today. I think we should lynch Peterman or George. If we're wrong, lynch the other one tomorrow. If we're wrong again, somebody has fooled me.
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1047

Post by Julinook »

George Steinbrenner wrote: Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:50 pm Jerry Seinfeld
Uncle Leo
Frank Costanza
J Peterman
George Costanza


I do not advise lynching Frank today. I think we should lynch Peterman or George. If we're wrong, lynch the other one tomorrow. If we're wrong again, somebody has fooled me.
Agreed.
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1048

Post by Julinook »

Not Frank.
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1049

Post by November »

George and Peterman are about even in my mind. I'm voting for George because that's where the other votes are. I'm confident that it's one of those two, but I do not know which one. I wouldn't hate splitting the votes between them if we can't reach a consensus.
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Re: [DAY 5] Seinfeld Mafia

#1050

Post by Spooky Ghost »

I'm back for a bit! (breaking this down into 2 posts as I've been on/off)
Jerry Seinfeld wrote: Fri Oct 20, 2017 6:24 pm I sounds like you've conclusively decided that Leo is a civilian. I'd be interested to hear about what leads you to that read.
I've said what stroke me as suspicious.
Initially, I felt good about him. His posts seemed constructive, even things I disagreed with, I felt like we were two townies discussing things. The best example of this is when I heard what he was saying about you, related to it, and tried to offer my 2 cents why I didn't find it plausible it could be an intentional move on your part (post-Newman lynch). During Day 2, I specifically questioned you why you were trusting Uncle Leo, since Leo posted for Puddy alongside 2 of his named suspects, which wouldn't be something I'd do personally. If my 2 suspects voted for someone, I'd vote for someone else. That's what started my bad feelings towards Leo.

Day 3 I held the same opinion on Leo: "I'm someone who goes by gut instincts a lot, and I felt Uncle Leo was wishy washy in his stances, as long as he didn't draw attention to himself or garner too much opposition and preferred following the bunch; insincere; not as vocal or skeptical as people should be on Day 2."

I didn't see anything from Leo to change my opinion, although his absense did make me pause and reconsider my vote. By Day 4, I felt like scum had to be someone who wasn't paying attention (killing Soup Nazi). Along with my past suspicions of Leo, I felt he could fit the bill.

Self-voting isn't something a scum would do to get people to feel guilty. That's emotionally manipulative on an out-of-game level in some ways, so call it what you will, but the gesture has almost solidified Leo to me as much as Elaine or Steinbrenner.
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