Mountain Mafia [END]

[Sloonei]

Elohcin's rainbow and dialogue with Sloonei

Sloonei's questions here were reasonable -- Elohcin voiced in vague terms that the high posters seem civ and that she'd be willing to vote for a low poster. The contents of the rainbow list don't align with that much. A change of heart is fine, but I don't know if that's even what happened in Eloh's head -- the progression is unclear. The names in the rainbow almost appear randomized. I'm surprised to see myself rated well given my own slow start, and I have no idea why Mesk is so high. I don't know why the low posters are split between yellow and orange. I don't know why the high posters Sloonei and Quin are orange. When given an opportunity to expand on these things, she just said "relax" and restated the general purpose of a rainbow list.

Elohcin, you need to talk more about what's going on there.

So then if he was right on all that why did he drop the vote when Epi said the read/case was bad? What made him swap his vote?

This was where I started to doubt Bob in real time. This is a wonky line of questioning. "Well if Sloonei's right about Eloh, why isn't he voting for her?", as if Town Sloonei should be certain that his read on Elohcin was correct, and it is suspicious that Sloonbeard would not follow through on such a convincing self-made read. Bogus line of inquiry. He's voting for me because I'm considering voting for Elohcin, then turning around to criticize me for not voting Elohcin.

That question was directed at JJJ because it was intended for JJJ. He was supporting your posting, so I wanted to understand why the part that bothered me didn't bother him. I wanted his thought process to help formulate a read on him, not as part of my feelings on you. I can certainly see why you interpreted this thay way, though, especially on ISO.

But you say this did bother you. Why?

[colonialbob]

Responding to the bits I want to respond to individually for readability.

@Sloonei
@colonialbob

What do you think of Epi's vote for LC?

I don't love it. He pretty clearly misinterpreted the "3 civs" thing, per your previous statement. Whether that's on purpose or just as a defense, who knows.

That said, I think LC's take against Epi was pretty weak. It's Day 1, saying you won't vote for somebody today is a viable way of narrowing the lynch pool as a way of getting into the game. He did pick two new (to the Syndicate) players, so maybe he's a scum hoping a new player latches on to it? Idk, seems weak.

All that said though I'm not interested in narrowing the focus just to the two of them just yet. I actually like Sloonei's line of questioning - let's hear actual thoughts Kyle.

*votes kyle*

To borrow someone else's words:

Posts that appear to say something while not actually saying anything

Jack asks cbob and I to weigh in on Epi vs. LC, part 9000 and bob just waffles around, qualifying both his points with some variation of a shrug. Then he piggybacked on my questioning of kyle, which is, like, an easy thing to do.

If you're reading carefully, those qualifications weren't on *my* thoughts, but my devil's advocate justification of the Epi pressure. I didn't like the buddying accusation, said the only bit about it I could buy was the fact that Mesk and I are new to the Syndicate players who maybe could fall for buddying, but that even that was a pretty weak reason to buy the case. Basically, even the best version of the case against Epi I didn't love.

But you provide the "devil's advocate justifications" in the first place. My point is that this post presents options that either one of Epi or LC could be bad, but you did not commit to either one at ths time. You left both options open to yourself for the down the road.

Yeah, it was like less than halfway through Day 1. I'm not ruling out somebody as a suspect that early - something we have in common, no? But I didn't like the current case. And I think it was clear over the rest of my D1 posting where my feelings on those two ended up falling.

[Sloonei]

Uh hey, I am thankful for all of you and for the fact that no one is dying this game.

[Sloonei]

Responding to the bits I want to respond to individually for readability.

@Sloonei
@colonialbob

What do you think of Epi's vote for LC?

I don't love it. He pretty clearly misinterpreted the "3 civs" thing, per your previous statement. Whether that's on purpose or just as a defense, who knows.

That said, I think LC's take against Epi was pretty weak. It's Day 1, saying you won't vote for somebody today is a viable way of narrowing the lynch pool as a way of getting into the game. He did pick two new (to the Syndicate) players, so maybe he's a scum hoping a new player latches on to it? Idk, seems weak.

All that said though I'm not interested in narrowing the focus just to the two of them just yet. I actually like Sloonei's line of questioning - let's hear actual thoughts Kyle.

*votes kyle*

To borrow someone else's words:

Posts that appear to say something while not actually saying anything

Jack asks cbob and I to weigh in on Epi vs. LC, part 9000 and bob just waffles around, qualifying both his points with some variation of a shrug. Then he piggybacked on my questioning of kyle, which is, like, an easy thing to do.

If you're reading carefully, those qualifications weren't on *my* thoughts, but my devil's advocate justification of the Epi pressure. I didn't like the buddying accusation, said the only bit about it I could buy was the fact that Mesk and I are new to the Syndicate players who maybe could fall for buddying, but that even that was a pretty weak reason to buy the case. Basically, even the best version of the case against Epi I didn't love.

But you provide the "devil's advocate justifications" in the first place. My point is that this post presents options that either one of Epi or LC could be bad, but you did not commit to either one at ths time. You left both options open to yourself for the down the road.

Yeah, it was like less than halfway through Day 1. I'm not ruling out somebody as a suspect that early - something we have in common, no? But I didn't like the current case. And I think it was clear over the rest of my D1 posting where my feelings on those two ended up falling.

It was clear. But I didn't buy your reason for it.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Interested to see this flip, I'm like 50/50 that Jack and Sloons are w/w

also please elaborate on these reads.

Maybe a little tin-foily, but caused by Jack voting sprit instead of you (or more accurately, voting you then quickly changing votes). If he's civ, why not self-preserve? Sure he may rather vote sprit than you but if y'all are tied there's at least a 50% chance of losing town anyway. If he's mafia and you're civ, why not vote for self-preservation and hopefully get a civvie mislynch with a totally justifiable vote? But if you're w/w, his self-preservation vote doesn't buy him cred, the outcome for the team is the same either way, and by voting a third person there's a chance somebody switches and gives mafia a chance to avoid the lynch.

(This was my pre-flip analysis, not taking into account that apparently nobody can die this game)

Jackofhearts2005 , care to answer?

I've been townreading you all game. You didn't jump on me when it was easy so you look even more town. I'm 10 pages behind at the time so I don't know what the case on you or me is.

The only case I actually see is Jimmy's case on Sprityo, who was a null at the time. And I have a lot of town reads so eliminating some nulls isn't a terrible idea even without the case.

Sprityo has like 3 votes. Sloonei has 6 counting mine. I have 5. I switch to Sprityo, that's 5-5-4, pretty dang close to a much better lynch than either Havk or Sloonei.

[colonialbob]

Responding to the bits I want to respond to individually for readability.

@Sloonei
@colonialbob

What do you think of Epi's vote for LC?

I don't love it. He pretty clearly misinterpreted the "3 civs" thing, per your previous statement. Whether that's on purpose or just as a defense, who knows.

That said, I think LC's take against Epi was pretty weak. It's Day 1, saying you won't vote for somebody today is a viable way of narrowing the lynch pool as a way of getting into the game. He did pick two new (to the Syndicate) players, so maybe he's a scum hoping a new player latches on to it? Idk, seems weak.

All that said though I'm not interested in narrowing the focus just to the two of them just yet. I actually like Sloonei's line of questioning - let's hear actual thoughts Kyle.

*votes kyle*

To borrow someone else's words:

Posts that appear to say something while not actually saying anything

Jack asks cbob and I to weigh in on Epi vs. LC, part 9000 and bob just waffles around, qualifying both his points with some variation of a shrug. Then he piggybacked on my questioning of kyle, which is, like, an easy thing to do.

If you're reading carefully, those qualifications weren't on *my* thoughts, but my devil's advocate justification of the Epi pressure. I didn't like the buddying accusation, said the only bit about it I could buy was the fact that Mesk and I are new to the Syndicate players who maybe could fall for buddying, but that even that was a pretty weak reason to buy the case. Basically, even the best version of the case against Epi I didn't love.

But you provide the "devil's advocate justifications" in the first place. My point is that this post presents options that either one of Epi or LC could be bad, but you did not commit to either one at ths time. You left both options open to yourself for the down the road.

Yeah, it was like less than halfway through Day 1. I'm not ruling out somebody as a suspect that early - something we have in common, no? But I didn't like the current case. And I think it was clear over the rest of my D1 posting where my feelings on those two ended up falling.

It was clear. But I didn't buy your reason for it.

K.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Interested to see this flip, I'm like 50/50 that Jack and Sloons are w/w

also please elaborate on these reads.

Maybe a little tin-foily, but caused by Jack voting sprit instead of you (or more accurately, voting you then quickly changing votes). If he's civ, why not self-preserve? Sure he may rather vote sprit than you but if y'all are tied there's at least a 50% chance of losing town anyway. If he's mafia and you're civ, why not vote for self-preservation and hopefully get a civvie mislynch with a totally justifiable vote? But if you're w/w, his self-preservation vote doesn't buy him cred, the outcome for the team is the same either way, and by voting a third person there's a chance somebody switches and gives mafia a chance to avoid the lynch.

(This was my pre-flip analysis, not taking into account that apparently nobody can die this game)

Jackofhearts2005 , care to answer?

I've been townreading you all game. You didn't jump on me when it was easy so you look even more town. I'm 10 pages behind at the time so I don't know what the case on you or me is.

The only case I actually see is Jimmy's case on Sprityo, who was a null at the time. And I have a lot of town reads so eliminating some nulls isn't a terrible idea even without the case.

Sprityo has like 3 votes. Sloonei has 6 counting mine. I have 5. I switch to Sprityo, that's 5-5-4, pretty dang close to a much better lynch than either *Jack* or Sloonei.

Ebwop

[Jackofhearts2005]

My point however, is not that scumhunting is for suckers, if that most scumhunting "tells" are smoke and mirrors in order to justify what is basically gut. Well I'm not sure if this applies to you people, but it applies to me. In the past, I'd suspect someone for a single scummy post, then I'd ISO them, do a very detailed analysis, and conclude they were the source of all evil on Earth. Then I would tunnel vision on them for tens of posts, and be so vocal I'd get at least one unlucky civ and one oppotunist baddie to follow me. Boom, mislynch.

Jackofhearts2005 Nightblue

I still carry the guilt of Nightblue with me.

[Sloonei]

Bob, what are your reads on jack and i now?

[colonialbob]

Bob, what are your reads on jack and i now?

I'm still trying to work through all the implications of the tie and the no lynch. Like, Jack could've been a little mountain protected by the Buttes, or confident of the Everest double vote, or Daisy is right about you, etc. I promise I'll come back with fully formed thoughts on this in a bit.

I no longer thing w/w is a strong possibility though.

[Epignosis]

Bob, what are your reads on jack and i now?

I'm still trying to work through all the implications of the tie and the no lynch. Like, Jack could've been a little mountain protected by the Buttes, or confident of the Everest double vote, or Daisy is right about you, etc. I promise I'll come back with fully formed thoughts on this in a bit.

I no longer thing w/w is a strong possibility though.

Whether or not it was a tie is moot.

In the event of a tie on Day 1, no one is lynched.

In the event of a tie on any other day, one of the tied players will randomly be chosen and cast into the abyss (lynched).

[sprityo]

Sorry for being upset last night guys. This game has been moving super fast and I had some other stuff going on

[nutella]

Ok it was Jack and Sloonei tied with 5. I have been operating under the assumption that Nutella has a vote worth two based upon events from Day 1. If this is true, then Jack would actually have had six to Sloonei's five. This would then mean that either Jack is the role that survives its first death, he could be one of the two secret roles which we don't know the powers for, or he was protected by the Sutter Buttes and had his vote decreased by one, making it a tie that swung to Sloonei who then did not die.

I find it difficult to get past Sloonei seeming to think it was a waste of time to lynch him. His phrasing read to me like a hint at what would happen. I'll pull some quotes for examples.

This lynch leaves me with a distinctly bad impression of Jack. But there are two questions I need to have answered because they could be hidden factors at play if I have misunderstood them.

Marmot: Two questions. 1. When you say "Aconcagua will survive the first attempt on its life." does this apply to either lynch or NK, whichever comes first? Or does this only apply to NK?

2. If a lynch save has been used how will it be written?

These answers can impact my view of this latest non death.

Now I am off to pull the relevant Sloonei statements... then going to sleep.

OK yeah I missed how the Sutter Buttes thing works. This makes sense.

Ok it was Jack and Sloonei tied with 5. I have been operating under the assumption that Nutella has a vote worth two based upon events from Day 1. If this is true, then Jack would actually have had six to Sloonei's five. This would then mean that either Jack is the role that survives its first death, he could be one of the two secret roles which we don't know the powers for, or he was protected by the Sutter Buttes and had his vote decreased by one, making it a tie that swung to Sloonei who then did not die.

I find it difficult to get past Sloonei seeming to think it was a waste of time to lynch him. His phrasing read to me like a hint at what would happen. I'll pull some quotes for examples.

This lynch leaves me with a distinctly bad impression of Jack. But there are two questions I need to have answered because they could be hidden factors at play if I have misunderstood them.

Marmot: Two questions. 1. When you say "Aconcagua will survive the first attempt on its life." does this apply to either lynch or NK, whichever comes first? Or does this only apply to NK?

2. If a lynch save has been used how will it be written?

These answers can impact my view of this latest non death.

Now I am off to pull the relevant Sloonei statements... then going to sleep.

Cristobal Colon (which I somehow missed in my tally of how no one got lynched) may have had to send in a lynch-stop without knowing which of the players in the "tie" were going to be lynched. It's conceivable that Civ Sloonei just saved baddie Jack, or vice-versa.

Also this.

So yeah I'm back to thinking Jack is bad news.

[colonialbob]

Bob, what are your reads on jack and i now?

I'm still trying to work through all the implications of the tie and the no lynch. Like, Jack could've been a little mountain protected by the Buttes, or confident of the Everest double vote, or Daisy is right about you, etc. I promise I'll come back with fully formed thoughts on this in a bit.

I no longer thing w/w is a strong possibility though.

Whether or not it was a tie is moot.

In the event of a tie on Day 1, no one is lynched.

In the event of a tie on any other day, one of the tied players will randomly be chosen and cast into the abyss (lynched).

Right, I posted that before EoD. I meant that more along the lines of "if Jack was protected by Sutter Buttes, he could've voted away from the tie because he's going to "win" ties." Or analysis involving Everest because double vote.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Me too! *vote Epignosis*

Are you still angry from the previous game with epi where he found you out as mafia?

Put a vote on Spacedaisy. Do we believe her guilt to be coming from a place of empathy for game hosts everywhere, or from her role card?

I believe her.

I don't like this Epi lynch. Feels like there's a bunch of scum surrounding him like vultures waiting to see if they can lynch him or not. Lots of people "kind of" wanting to vote for him.

I agree with this.

Posting but still catching up.

What does Elohcin thinks about the people "kind of" wanting to vote for him? Maybe she's answered this. if not, I'd like one.

Like who? DDL, Eloh and now you have talked about the vultures. Who are the vultures? DDL answered LC, which is wrong, and required people to ask him like 8 times. Makes his vultures idea sound made up.

You and Eloh subscribe to the vultures theory and have not named vultures, which also sounds made up or at least barely paying attention to it.

read the ebwop dood

I did. I don't see any names. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong post.

I still want Eloh and Quin to answer this with actual names.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Elohcin
Mesk514
JaggedJimmyJay
Spacedaisy
Dragon D. Luffy
Epignosis
Jackofhearts2005
speedchuck
Kylemii
DrWilgy
insertnamehere
colonialbob
sig
sprityo
Quin
Sloonei
Dom
nutella
Long Con

Once again, I'm next to Epi and away from Long Con even though I was parroting/mindmelding a lot of LC posts aimed at Epi on D1.

Could you explain this, Eloh?

[sig]

I don't like daisy going after me and sprit and other low posters that screams mafia. Targeting people who aren't around to one defend themselves and two yo lynch since you get less heat if they flip civ when lynched. Since they weren't active so no big deal. Is my thoughts regarding lynching low posters. I also don't like het posts on wilgy they seem like she's trying to spread paranoia.

1. My case against you and at first sprityo was never about low posters. It was about people who had been somewhat active but their content was so minimal that it was forgettable to me. So nice misrepresentation there.

2. I'm not spreading paranoia, I'm trying to sort through my own feelings and figure out if it's tinfoil insanity or really something. Also, if I was spreading paranoia I would not be so willing to hear other opinions and adjust based on good points in response.

This accusation was definitively a no u and it really makes me like the look of you even less.

It might've been a little no uish. However, I do see a main argument of your case being that we're low posters which is a slippery and dangerous route to follow.

2. That's something someone trying to spread paranoia would say.

linki: Jack would you mind explaining why you think you were almost lynched?

[sig]

Howdy, sorry for not voting, I'd have gone for Daisy or LC since I didn't really see the case on any player. I'll address Daisy really fast, but first I want to say I really dislike the movement from her and JJJ to go after low posters who are kind off present, but not. I'll be totally honest I'm not very present and I find it odd people expect massive posts thanksgiving weekend. I also didn't expect this game to have 1400+ posts before day 3.

So since no lynches are impossible at this point one of the two, I'm assuming Jack due to vote break down has to be civ? Since mafia doesn't have a lynch survivor. Either way one of the two players should be seen as lock clear civ.

[Sloonei]

Howdy, sorry for not voting, I'd have gone for Daisy or LC since I didn't really see the case on any player. I'll address Daisy really fast, but first I want to say I really dislike the movement from her and JJJ to go after low posters who are kind off present, but not. I'll be totally honest I'm not very present and I find it odd people expect massive posts thanksgiving weekend. I also didn't expect this game to have 1400+ posts before day 3.

So since no lynches are impossible at this point one of the two, I'm assuming Jack due to vote break down has to be civ? Since mafia doesn't have a lynch survivor. Either way one of the two players should be seen as lock clear civ.

Why does Jack get your favorable outlook here?

[Jackofhearts2005]

I don't like daisy going after me and sprit and other low posters that screams mafia. Targeting people who aren't around to one defend themselves and two yo lynch since you get less heat if they flip civ when lynched. Since they weren't active so no big deal. Is my thoughts regarding lynching low posters. I also don't like het posts on wilgy they seem like she's trying to spread paranoia.

1. My case against you and at first sprityo was never about low posters. It was about people who had been somewhat active but their content was so minimal that it was forgettable to me. So nice misrepresentation there.

2. I'm not spreading paranoia, I'm trying to sort through my own feelings and figure out if it's tinfoil insanity or really something. Also, if I was spreading paranoia I would not be so willing to hear other opinions and adjust based on good points in response.

This accusation was definitively a no u and it really makes me like the look of you even less.

It might've been a little no uish. However, I do see a main argument of your case being that we're low posters which is a slippery and dangerous route to follow.

2. That's something someone trying to spread paranoia would say.

linki: Jack would you mind explaining why you think you were almost lynched?

Hey, Sig.

LC thinks I slipped but he's wrong. I don't slip.

Kyle and DDL expressed gut bad reads on me.

There may be more to it than that cause I'm still 7-8 pages behind in yesterday but as far as I know, that's it.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Who is Lasagna?

[nutella]

Hey, I expressed a gut bad read of you first. And I outlined some more reasoning behind my suspicion back on Day 1. Also, Kyle made a good point about you that you still have not answered.

[Sloonei]

Who is Lasagna?

Mesk

[nutella]

Since you will undoubtedly now ask me to link you those posts instead of going and finding them yourself:

Here is where I explained my suspicion of you a bit more -- I'll concede that the "slip" things were bad reasons but the other stuff still stands. The weird sprityo thing from the very beginning (and now that I also suspect sprityo, hmm....), your contributions to the Epi discussion and strange notions about me, and in general your mode of interaction with the thread on day 1. I could find some more stuff from day 2 to add to this but I don't have time right now.

Here is the post by Kyle that you have ignored. He makes a good point here that you did not seem to have a townie approach.

[sig]

Howdy, sorry for not voting, I'd have gone for Daisy or LC since I didn't really see the case on any player. I'll address Daisy really fast, but first I want to say I really dislike the movement from her and JJJ to go after low posters who are kind off present, but not. I'll be totally honest I'm not very present and I find it odd people expect massive posts thanksgiving weekend. I also didn't expect this game to have 1400+ posts before day 3.

So since no lynches are impossible at this point one of the two, I'm assuming Jack due to vote break down has to be civ? Since mafia doesn't have a lynch survivor. Either way one of the two players should be seen as lock clear civ.

Why does Jack get your favorable outlook here?

So assuming nutella is who I think she is, then Jack was leading the lynch. True there might be other vote things going on, but I feel like neither Jack nor sloonie would make sense for the mafia team to target with their minus 1. Unless we're all way off with mafia members.

Jack didn't die and I only saw one known role that can survive a lynch. If it wasn't Jack then it's sloonie.

The only other role would be the 3rd party. Usually I'm very anti Third party, however it doesn't appear that this role is a SK so I don't care much and would rather focus on mafia. Therefore one of them must be a civ.

[Sloonei]

Howdy, sorry for not voting, I'd have gone for Daisy or LC since I didn't really see the case on any player. I'll address Daisy really fast, but first I want to say I really dislike the movement from her and JJJ to go after low posters who are kind off present, but not. I'll be totally honest I'm not very present and I find it odd people expect massive posts thanksgiving weekend. I also didn't expect this game to have 1400+ posts before day 3.

So since no lynches are impossible at this point one of the two, I'm assuming Jack due to vote break down has to be civ? Since mafia doesn't have a lynch survivor. Either way one of the two players should be seen as lock clear civ.

Why does Jack get your favorable outlook here?

So assuming nutella is who I think she is, then Jack was leading the lynch. True there might be other vote things going on, but I feel like neither Jack nor sloonie would make sense for the mafia team to target with their minus 1. Unless we're all way off with mafia members.

Jack didn't die and I only saw one known role that can survive a lynch. If it wasn't Jack then it's sloonie.

The only other role would be the 3rd party. Usually I'm very anti Third party, however it doesn't appear that this role is a SK so I don't care much and would rather focus on mafia. Therefore one of them must be a civ.

Olympus Mons could be literally anything. There was no kill Night 1, but maybe it only kills on even nights or somethig.

[sig]

Thanks nutella. It is strange, but I'm not sure I'd lynch on it.

Now I must be off to Thanksgiving lunch/dinner. I'll try to phone post a bit, but we'll see.

linki: True, if it starts killing I say we hunt it otherwise I'd say it's more important to go after mafia members and if we hit Olympus Mons it isn't a big loss

[Jackofhearts2005]

Hey, I expressed a gut bad read of you first. And I outlined some more reasoning behind my suspicion back on Day 1. Also, Kyle made a good point about you that you still have not answered.

What? That I'm wrong about your meta? We've played in three games together and I was able to pick you out as a townie in two no problem while I had a very up close view of you as scum in the third.

So I'm wrong but how can you think that's a dishonest read?

If you have anything but that and the not actually a slip, feel free to remind me.

I haven't caught up to Kyle's question yet.



Linki (thanks):

Lol "mainly gut" "odd" "weird."

In terms of your more clearly stated reasons, I've addressed the "a few good townies" post and I still don't know what your problem with it is.

I've addressed my meta read of you. I don't know why you have a problem with it. You even said if I really think that, I haven't played with you enough and that Phenom was a special case. Okay but if you know I've played 3 normal games with you, you know one is an outlier and my meta read of you is consistent with your performances in those games...why does this make you suspect me?

LC's slip arguement is silly. "Whatcha eating under there?" "Under where?" "Ha! You are bad."

Regarding Sprityo, see our posts in elemental and after Mass Effect. I was just messing with him. I obviously didn't townread him based on nothing or expect him to have a read on me based on nothing.

[nutella]

True there might be other vote things going on, but I feel like neither Jack nor sloonie would make sense for the mafia team to target with their minus 1. Unless we're all way off with mafia members.

I don't understand what you mean by this. Some of us think that Jack could well be a mafia member who was protected by Sutter Buttes. Why are you discounting this possibility out of hand?

[nutella]

Jack you ignored the part about the Epi discussion. I still don't like how you looked there.

[Jackofhearts2005]

My motivation was that Kyle just asked me to weigh in on stuff I had already weighed in on. So I was like "no."

Who was I gonna save?

I have a problem with this. You and I were talking about the usefulness of using close lynches as a valid scum hunting tactic in appropriate contexts.

I asked you why the discussion was so important to you that you felt the need to respond so passionately about it and you never responded. The moment I invited you to discuss the options for the current lynch you decided you were done for the night and left.

Didn't I? And hadn't I already stated in extreme detail my feelings on LC, Epi and Nutella?

ISO me.

I literally just did. My point still stands.

"I've already said my opinions once so I refuse to think about them more or talk about them again when someone asks" is not a pro town attitude

especially when the person making the request is one of your town reads

Per Nutella, the question I missed.

I didn't want to restate reads cause I've been working my ass off this whole game and half the players had barely posted, a few of which were composing about people talking too much.

But sure. Here are my Epi Nutella thoughts at the time:
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... la#p381596

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... la#p381614

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... la#p381628

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... la#p381661


And on the importance of strategy arguements:
http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... nt#p381715

Like I said at the time. "ISO me." Nothing in the questions I'm supposedly ignoring that hasn't already been answered.

Still think Kyle is good.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Complaining, not composing.

[Sloonei]

Complaining, not composing.

Who's bad?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Jack you ignored the part about the Epi discussion. I still don't like how you looked there.

Could you be more specific?

[speedchuck]

Who is Lasagna?

Mesk

Can we call her mesk and make things easier?

[Jackofhearts2005]

[ytubehd][/ytubehd]

Complaining, not composing.

Who's bad?

Epi, Bob...waffling on DDL, probably some low posters. Waffling on Epi a bet too tbh. I'm doing much better finding townies than scum this game.

[speedchuck]

So I wasn't here for dayend, and I moved from Sprityo to Jack to try and save sloonei from a BS lynch. Kinda wish I hadn't now.

And Jack wasn't an infinitely better option.

Cbob is easy for me to see as scum, and I'm glad someone brought it up. I didn't feel like posting much during the day. It all started when Cbob saw my firey post against LC and jumped on the bandwagon against him. But for those that remember, my post train wasn't condemning of LC's alignment, only his reasoning. Cbob wasn't looking for a read, he was looking for an excuse.

In general, it feels like Cbob is trying to hide his lack of scumhunting behind aggression and agreement, depending on the tide of the game. Most of the end of D2 had Cbob waving his vote in sloon's face without substantiating it or arguing it.

"But he seems so confident!"
Yeah, that's what I do as scum. I'd vote there.

Sprit is still somewhat below null for me. The freak-out/leave-thread post didn't really affect that.

Sloon is top town read (and was before the lynch, thanks). DDL is prob good. I waffle on Jack.

Regarding Sig's spec: I usually don't worry about 3rd parties until a kill shows up. Or at least some kind of marks.

[Epignosis]

True there might be other vote things going on, but I feel like neither Jack nor sloonie would make sense for the mafia team to target with their minus 1. Unless we're all way off with mafia members.

I don't understand what you mean by this. Some of us think that Jack could well be a mafia member who was protected by Sutter Buttes. Why are you discounting this possibility out of hand?

Can you explain how this transpired given the result?

[colonialbob]

Cbob is easy for me to see as scum, and I'm glad someone brought it up. I didn't feel like posting much during the day. It all started when Cbob saw my firey post against LC and jumped on the bandwagon against him. But for those that remember, my post train wasn't condemning of LC's alignment, only his reasoning. Cbob wasn't looking for a read, he was looking for an excuse.

In general, it feels like Cbob is trying to hide his lack of scumhunting behind aggression and agreement, depending on the tide of the game. Most of the end of D2 had Cbob waving his vote in sloon's face without substantiating it or arguing it.

"But he seems so confident!"
Yeah, that's what I do as scum. I'd vote there.

I find this post funny because you're basically regurgitating Sloonei's argument against me (including using his exact (underlined) words!) while accusing me of hiding behind agreement.

[nutella]

True there might be other vote things going on, but I feel like neither Jack nor sloonie would make sense for the mafia team to target with their minus 1. Unless we're all way off with mafia members.

I don't understand what you mean by this. Some of us think that Jack could well be a mafia member who was protected by Sutter Buttes. Why are you discounting this possibility out of hand?

Can you explain how this transpired given the result?

I mean it's a night power, right? So the scum team anticipated jack getting some votes and gave him minus one. He would have been one vote ahead of sloonei but this would bring it back to a tie, which was randomly flipped to sloonei who is one of the civ roles who would survive the lynch.

[colonialbob]

On the off chance of vote shenanigans...


Nutella, Sloonei, Jimmy, Bob, Quin good.

Epi bad. DDL maybe bad. Daisy maybe bad but only if Epi is.

Everyone else mostly null.

Do people use legacy reads? I feel like these get ignored.

Anyone want to/able to weigh in on what I just said about colonialbob? He's leapfrogged everyone else to the top of my suspects list.

I found what you said convincing.

Second time you've done this, town read me then next post flip me to bottom of your list based on somebody else's suspicions. I'm getting Crossover vibes all over the place from you, and I don't like it.

[colonialbob]

PS I think Sloonei's ISO of me started with the premise that I was probably bad and surprisingly enough found reasons to confirm. I don't think that's alignment indicative, I think it's a problem with ISOing people you're not neutral on.

[Jackofhearts2005]

On the off chance of vote shenanigans...


Nutella, Sloonei, Jimmy, Bob, Quin good.

Epi bad. DDL maybe bad. Daisy maybe bad but only if Epi is.

Everyone else mostly null.

Do people use legacy reads? I feel like these get ignored.

Anyone want to/able to weigh in on what I just said about colonialbob? He's leapfrogged everyone else to the top of my suspects list.

I found what you said convincing.

Second time you've done this, town read me then next post flip me to bottom of your list based on somebody else's suspicions. I'm getting Crossover vibes all over the place from you, and I don't like it.

Bob, I'm shit at reading you. See: All of Hybridity, basically. First three reads of you were pure gut and some were explicitly stated to not be reads anyone should listen to.

Last one is based on Sloonei's arguement sounding legit.

What do you think of Jimmy, Daisy, Dom, DDL, Speed?

[colonialbob]

On the off chance of vote shenanigans...


Nutella, Sloonei, Jimmy, Bob, Quin good.

Epi bad. DDL maybe bad. Daisy maybe bad but only if Epi is.

Everyone else mostly null.

Do people use legacy reads? I feel like these get ignored.

Anyone want to/able to weigh in on what I just said about colonialbob? He's leapfrogged everyone else to the top of my suspects list.

I found what you said convincing.

Second time you've done this, town read me then next post flip me to bottom of your list based on somebody else's suspicions. I'm getting Crossover vibes all over the place from you, and I don't like it.

Bob, I'm shit at reading you. See: All of Hybridity, basically. First three reads of you were pure gut and some were explicitly stated to not be reads anyone should listen to.

Last one is based on Sloonei's arguement sounding legit.

What do you think of Jimmy, Daisy, Dom, DDL, Speed?

Town, Town, null, lean Town, evaluating.

I'm fine putting a lean Scum on Dom from PoE, but that's all it is.

[Sloonei]

PS I think Sloonei's ISO of me started with the premise that I was probably bad and surprisingly enough found reasons to confirm. I don't think that's alignment indicative, I think it's a problem with ISOing people you're not neutral on.

You still haven't addressed my primary concern, which was your behavior from the time you started suspecting me to the end of the day.
this post here also suggests you've reversed your opinion on me again.

[Marmot]

Another note from the host.

I will be out of town this weekend until Mondayish. As such, my ability to respond to questions will be delayed, and I will only have access to the game via my phone.
I intend to extend Day 3 to 48 hours. I also intend to handle end-phases in the best capacity I can.

But the game will carry on! I will keep you all informed if anything changes.

[colonialbob]

PS I think Sloonei's ISO of me started with the premise that I was probably bad and surprisingly enough found reasons to confirm. I don't think that's alignment indicative, I think it's a problem with ISOing people you're not neutral on.

You still haven't addressed my primary concern, which was your behavior from the time you started suspecting me to the end of the day.
this post here also suggests you've reversed your opinion on me again.

I've reversed position on you for mechanical reasons. Town has the avoid lynch powers, so that makes you more likely to be town. Also Jack's non-tie vote bothers me and the more likely he is to be scum the less likely you are to be, since the w/w thing doesn't hold up mechanically.

My behavior from suspecting you until end of day? My choices were you, Jack, or sprit. I didn't want to vote sprit because I don't like going low poster this early. I could've voted Jack but my suspicions of you were fresher and less meta. I don't really get this "waving my vote in your face" complaint tbh.

[Sloonei]

But also, for the sake of discussion philosophy/theory, you're right that I was looking for reasons to suspect you. When I'm engaging in an ISO like the one I did of cbob last night, I am asking myself "Can I see any of these actions being scum-indicative?". If I can pull enough out that consistently makes sense, I'm willing to run with it. If I struggle, I'll probably still submit the post for sake of discussion, but I won't push the person as a suspect. I don't think I can catch baddies without this approach.

Other times I'll ISO a person from a totally neutral standpoint. It depends on what I'm working with and where I'm at in the game.

[Sloonei]

PS I think Sloonei's ISO of me started with the premise that I was probably bad and surprisingly enough found reasons to confirm. I don't think that's alignment indicative, I think it's a problem with ISOing people you're not neutral on.

You still haven't addressed my primary concern, which was your behavior from the time you started suspecting me to the end of the day.
this post here also suggests you've reversed your opinion on me again.

I've reversed position on you for mechanical reasons. Town has the avoid lynch powers, so that makes you more likely to be town. Also Jack's non-tie vote bothers me and the more likely he is to be scum the less likely you are to be, since the w/w thing doesn't hold up mechanically.

My behavior from suspecting you until end of day? My choices were you, Jack, or sprit. I didn't want to vote sprit because I don't like going low poster this early. I could've voted Jack but my suspicions of you were fresher and less meta. I don't really get this "waving my vote in your face" complaint tbh.

I never got the impression you were honestly considering a vote change. You were poking Jay with some questions about sprityo and me, but I don't remember seeing you offer any critical thoughts of your own, and you never wavered for a moment from your position. Your vote was on me and you were acting like there was still room to change your mind, but I never saw evidence of this. I also feel like the confidence you expressed in your vote was not backed up by the justification you provided, but that's not something I can view objectively since I was the target of it.

Why didn't you vote for Jack?

[speedchuck]

Cbob is easy for me to see as scum, and I'm glad someone brought it up. I didn't feel like posting much during the day. It all started when Cbob saw my firey post against LC and jumped on the bandwagon against him. But for those that remember, my post train wasn't condemning of LC's alignment, only his reasoning. Cbob wasn't looking for a read, he was looking for an excuse.

In general, it feels like Cbob is trying to hide his lack of scumhunting behind aggression and agreement, depending on the tide of the game. Most of the end of D2 had Cbob waving his vote in sloon's face without substantiating it or arguing it.

"But he seems so confident!"
Yeah, that's what I do as scum. I'd vote there.

I find this post funny because you're basically regurgitating Sloonei's argument against me (including using his exact (underlined) words!) while accusing me of hiding behind agreement.

IKR? It's like irony.

The non-underlined part of the post is my take though. There's more to what I'm saying. I'm just agreeing with sloon at the same time.