Since I've given up truly catching up, I'm going to ISO the people I'm most curious of. Bless that the games been on hold though because I've been busy AF.
JOH
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:39 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:53 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:59 am
If Long Con is a civilian, then is most likely means he is genuine in his suspicion of me.
If his suspicion is genuine, then his accusation that I am being deliberate and calculating in my dealings thus far should be one that he can logically explain.
Already done, but you want more words?
In other words, if I know what I'm doing (i.e., being deliberate in "setting up a long game"), and Long Con is calling me out on that, then he should be able to explain how my actions in the thread so far will benefit my team and me down the road. What is the long game and how am I expecting it to play out?
Uh, you pick two Civs and buddy them so they trust you and don't lynch you. Long game benefit: survival, and more likely to lynch Civs along the way. You intimidate Sloonei out of coming after you. Benefit: One less Civ coming after you; survival; more likely to lynch a Civ along the way.
If he can't answer that, then his suspicion isn't genuine, and he's trying to get a quick and easy Day 1 lynch out of the way.
Let's get this quick and easy Day 1 lynch out of the way, folks!
Point LC.
Epi is perhaps the best dancer on the site. There is nothing "quick and easy" about trying to mislynch him on Day 1. This feels like trying to scare away votes, not a legit attempt to scumhunt, which is exactly what Epi is already accused of doing with Sloonei.
Combined with suspicious nonlynchcandidate declarations, I think this is worthy of a vote.
PS: What is my tell?
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:50 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:12 pm
Long Con wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:53 pm
Uh,
you pick two Civs and buddy them so they trust you and don't lynch you. Long game benefit: survival, and more likely to lynch Civs along the way. You intimidate Sloonei out of coming after you. Benefit:
One less Civ coming after you; survival; more likely to lynch a Civ along the way.
Wait a minute.
How does Long Con
know Mesk, coolonialbob, and Sloonei are civilians?
This is not posted in good faith.
Clearly the accusation is that Epi is buddying civvies as scum doesn't buddy their own teammates.
Course, civvy Epi doesn't always post in good faith.
I'm torn on these posts. The metaphor of Epi being a dancer that JoH uses felt as a forced overstatement, but I can see the argument that JoH presents Epi. What doesn't make me feel good is the stepping back to the happy middle of "Course, civvy Epi doesn't always post in good faith."
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:43 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:54 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:40 pm
Epi, do you agree with kyle's assessment that you were attacking LC with hyperbole and strawmen?
No.
LC explicitly called cb, Mesk, and Sloonei civilians. There was no consideration given that I could be "buddying" a teammate, as JoH suggested (however the hell one does that).
He also has taken anything I have said or done and says I am "setting up a long game" even though I have never before in my four years of playing Mafia done that Day 1. Instead of considering angles in which my words and actions indicate a civilian, he presses on with his unfounded, circular nonsense.
There is no strawman fallacy or hyperbole, and even if there is, so what?
I'm going to explain a thing you're pretending to not understand one time out of the goodness of my heart. I won't continue to do so because it is tiring.
LC posts that you are bad and you are buddying Bob and Mesk. The implication is that since scum doesn't buddy teammates, if LC is correct in his suspicions, Bob and Mesk would by definition be town.
LC is not claiming to have figured out Mesk or Bob's alignments outside of this, which is obvious.
I am not claiming that scum buddying a teammate is a thing, which is also obvious.
No more straw men. Townies don't gain anything from willfully pretending not to understand accusations.
I like the conviction. Coming from a JoH that was wavering earlier this is good.
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:53 pm
nutella wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:40 pm
lol jack if you think me being lazy is a scumtell you haven't played with me enough. you were spoiled in phenon, that was one of my best civ performances. I am normally lazy af and flipflopping all over the place, anyone can tell you that. I'm trying to change up my style anyway so it's less obvious, and have decided to go with a fast-and-loose, whatever-I-feel-like-saying style this game, and I've decided you're bad so I'm voting for you and I decided not to get deeply involved in discussion because, yeah, I'm lazy, deal with it
linki: wait you think I'm epi's scumbuddy? lol what? I very nearly voted for him first. I'm fine with him being lynched.
I take back what I said about lynch Epi first. I'm totally okay with a Nutella lynch first.
Lol "I've decided you are bad"
At first glance I hate this. Why are you totally OK? oh well. Let's see what I find later.
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:26 pm
speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:09 pm
Eh, can't find it. I know I've seen that argument before, possibly from Epi. If it was in night vale, then
Epi's response to LC's pressure is a lot more damning than the initial stupid argument.
In Nightvale, Epi pretended to not understand/not be interested in a case against LC, who was his scumbuddy. You've seen this before but yeah, with scum Epi.
I agree the defense is more damning than the accusation but the accusation (Quin/Sloonei's version anyhow) has merit.
This explains where the conviction comes from, but now I understand that there was past precedent in place.
Fear - It is possible that JoH knew of this Nightvale Epi behavior and was looking to paint a similar situation.
Hope - It is possible that JoH was looking for this behavior of Epi and called him out as soon as he noticed it.
The problem I have here is that JoH has already used metaphor in a way that gave a harsh negative light. Calling Epi a dancer and portraying that is in line with my fear.
// Taking a note here because I don't think it's worth spoilering - JoH's interactions with LC are something to review if needed.
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:46 am
colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:37 am
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:06 am
colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:58 am
Quin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:34 am
Everest
Aconcagua
Pico Cristóbal Colón
Matterhorn
Sutterbuttes
Olympus Mons
are the roles that could have caused that. nutella does not necessarily have to be one of these roles.
As Sloonei and Daisy pointed out, not Buttes, who are coincidentally the only scum on this list (pending Olympus Mons which we don't know anything about). Honest mistake or trying to imply she's mafia?
So by your estimation (I'll probably double check later), Nutella can't be mafia?
Not at all, not sure why you'd make that jump? I think an Everest tie is probably the most likely reason, which could easily have nothing to do with her alignment.
Daisy was like the only player town reading Nutella (though not everyone else was scumreading her).
I'm not thinking Everest saves Nutella without knowing her alignment. I think Nutella's survival is alignment indicative.
Quick conclusion here JoH. I'm unsure how I feel about this, do you still think that this was the case?
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:21 pm
I don't even know what I'm arguing for. Daisy already said she thinks I really think that and I already said I think Nutella is good.
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:31 pm
I'm just having a fucking day at work. Ready to fight over nothing.
I look forward to hearing more from you and DDL and Jimmy.
Interesting. I'll take that I'm missing some context here, but you so harshly came back to this. I do not see any questioning of manipulation either.
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:08 pm
colonialbob wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:03 pm
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:36 pm
Everyone should tell me what things in this thread you feel are most important/most warrant my attention and discussion among those I didn't just address.
I'd be interested in thoughts on me/jack/LC. Also the vote swapping from Epi to Nutella
This is my favorite post from Bob cause I like it but I didn't think to ask about the Epi to Nutella switch. I think Bob is unlikely scumbuddies with Epi. (Jimmy encouraging me to be a better player makes me feel warm and fuzzy. Plz ignore my badness last time I said that.)
Are you buddying or talking with a teammate here?
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:19 pm
DDL has moved into top scum read.
A good chunk of me wants to give Epi another chance cause I secretly love him and cause lots of people have called the buddying theory wrong. Part of me does not because I'm still not seeing much hunting. I am seeing strong mechanic analysis that reminds me of good Epi breaking open ASOUE so there's that.
Mostly, DDL feels frazzled. His reads are coming in half baked. He's too concerned with how he looks (for DDL). Part of me remembers his postgane Pirates comment and thinks he's suffering from the same self doubt. If that's the case, I would feel bad lynching him. But I want to cause he seems bad.
Your thoughts on DDL's game from a DDL meta perspective?
This is bullshit right here. Epi is my secret lover and you can't have him.
Besides that, can you toss me towards the posts that helped you form your DDL opinion? Do you see Epi and DDL as teammate compatible?
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:15 am
If I read ten pages and the only arguments for my lynch are "gut" and LC's slip silliness, Imma flip this table.
Are you referring to me? I'm not apoligizing.
//Notes...
//Joh's quick paced ISO's did give me some insight, but I don't think that I should spoiler or comment on each.
//Overall this ISO scared me. I feel that JoH has a way of portraying things that either are forced or feel like a forced portrayal.
//Perhaps ISOing the person I had a gut bad feeling on first was a bad idea. Thoughts of how I may be tunneling are clouding my vision.
//The core of my questions really come to this "Does JoH really think Epi is bad?" and I can't say for sure "Yes, he thinks he's bad."
//Because of this, JoH is likely scum.
//Kill the liars.
//Who should I ISO next? I think Nutella or Epi would be good, I don't think I'll be able to do it until later this evening?