Mountain Mafia [END]

[Spacedaisy]

Stupid phone posting! Invert = about

[Jackofhearts2005]

Well I liked this game.

Idk if it made me do better reads but it forced me to make a firm decision on several players. Felt the need to elaborate on Bob (poe/gut/no obvious pairing) and Eloh (feels real in spite of everything) in the moment but choose not to.

Dunya's effort is appreciated but she comes across as trying to find weakpoints to mislynch (here we go again). That's partially a heartread as I tend to recognize good Dunya quickly in my limited experience with her.

Wilgy, ignoring me (who is town), isn't doing much hunting, which comes across bad when forced to quick read.

Interested in general gth game theory. Don't care if y'all don't like it. Jimmy?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Kyle heartread good. Epi is ASOUE Epi I hope. Quin, Sloon, Jimmy, LC, Nutella nothing has changed (unimportant indy suspicions included).

Nothing really changed with Speed, either. Maybe feels extra lurky.

Hilarious at all the bad reads on Glornamehere. I wonder how much of that is baddies aren't helpful and how much is actually "mostly absent bad team" theory. Has anyone ever played a game with an entirely inactive baddy group? Sounds terrible.

[speedchuck]

Totally judging you all on your GTH reads of me

So like, one person townreads you. How does that make you feel?

Like I clearly need to play more games, firmly establish my meta.
Or maybe it's their fault. Thus the judging.

[colonialbob]

I've enjoyed reading dunya's catch up posts.

I want to address mesk's play. Who was it that said they had played with her as civ before and she was really fierce? She seems so genuine to me, but that info doesn't allign with her behavior. I think she needs to be up for discussion today.

Linki...by the way... I can never address linki because on my phone, the left side of linki gets cut off for some reason. Just thought I'd share.

I don't think her absence for 6 days is indicative of her alignment. That's what I would like to sway people away from.
Yes, as town, a wrongly accused town, she gets very vocal and aggressively defensive. She hasn't been on the frying pan though, indeed, she hasn't even been on the forum for 6 days so....we can't say she's scum because she's not here.

This is oddly defensive, imo.

Dunya replaced in awesomely with great effort. What if she is too good to be true? What if there have been no night kills because of a quiet mafia and two of them are mesk and now dunya? Just really spitting this out real quick before I go watch tv with the family. I'm not fully caught up so tell me if I'm insane.

You're saying mafia was a blank space? Maybe. But I'd like some names.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Totally judging you all on your GTH reads of me

So like, one person townreads you. How does that make you feel?

Like I clearly need to play more games, firmly establish my meta.
Or maybe it's their fault. Thus the judging.

Felt like I had a fucking lock on you in Phenom. Same for DDL in my first game with him.

Now you gut feel like Bob, who I can't read for shit and I feel like I don't know DDL at all.

Still think you're both bad but idk what happened to either of ya'lls metas.

[speedchuck]

Totally judging you all on your GTH reads of me

So like, one person townreads you. How does that make you feel?

Like I clearly need to play more games, firmly establish my meta.
Or maybe it's their fault. Thus the judging.

Felt like I had a fucking lock on you in Phenom. Same for DDL in my first game with him.

Now you gut feel like Bob, who I can't read for shit and I feel like I don't know DDL at all.

Still think you're both bad but idk what happened to either of ya'lls metas.

I'd say Phenon was a typical baddie game for me, even though I was 3P. Night vale too. Pirates I was a little distracted.

But hey, if you read me bad in Phenon, you're good on that.

[Jackofhearts2005]

(inb4 Epi "you are. I know exactly where I'm shooting")

I read this as a sexual joke.

I was about to respond, "I'm shooting in the dark too."

I am twelve years old and what is this?

[Long Con]

(inb4 Epi "you are. I know exactly where I'm shooting")

I read this as a sexual joke.

I was about to respond, "I'm shooting in the dark too."

I am twelve years old and what is this?

You are 30. OR was it 26?

[Elohcin]

@Long Con Lost Again 3 comes to mind. But whatever man. I don't feel the need to prove I can play a good scum game. Especially given the fact that I am not scum in this game.

That's exactly what Scumdaisy would say.

Since DrWilgy is here (hi! *wave)
Can you please elaborate more on this specifically as I have a mixed read on Daisy so far. I have never played with ScumDaisy before.

Nothing. I'm terrible at reading Daisy.

Um...this post screams scum, wilgy.

Still reading...

[Jackofhearts2005]

Totally judging you all on your GTH reads of me

So like, one person townreads you. How does that make you feel?

Like I clearly need to play more games, firmly establish my meta.
Or maybe it's their fault. Thus the judging.

Felt like I had a fucking lock on you in Phenom. Same for DDL in my first game with him.

Now you gut feel like Bob, who I can't read for shit and I feel like I don't know DDL at all.

Still think you're both bad but idk what happened to either of ya'lls metas.

I'd say Phenon was a typical baddie game for me, even though I was 3P. Night vale too. Pirates I was a little distracted.

But hey, if you read me bad in Phenon, you're good on that.

I read you as "not mafia, probably 3p" in Phenon.

I don't remember you in Nitevale. I was pretty sure you were bad in Pirates.

[Jackofhearts2005]

@Long Con Lost Again 3 comes to mind. But whatever man. I don't feel the need to prove I can play a good scum game. Especially given the fact that I am not scum in this game.

That's exactly what Scumdaisy would say.

Since DrWilgy is here (hi! *wave)
Can you please elaborate more on this specifically as I have a mixed read on Daisy so far. I have never played with ScumDaisy before.

Nothing. I'm terrible at reading Daisy.

Um...this post screams scum, wilgy.

Still reading...

Oh?

[DrWilgy]

@Long Con Lost Again 3 comes to mind. But whatever man. I don't feel the need to prove I can play a good scum game. Especially given the fact that I am not scum in this game.

That's exactly what Scumdaisy would say.

Since DrWilgy is here (hi! *wave)
Can you please elaborate more on this specifically as I have a mixed read on Daisy so far. I have never played with ScumDaisy before.

Nothing. I'm terrible at reading Daisy.

Um...this post screams scum, wilgy.

Still reading...

Interesting. This is based on what?

[Jackofhearts2005]

Penny for your thoughts, Doc?

[DrWilgy]

I think you're overthinking the dancing metaphor, Doctor.

Point being, Epi is not an easy lynch, regardless of alignment and that should be taken into account when reading D1.

But why should that be taken to account? If it's non-alignment indicative what's the purpose other than to put a negative characteristic on someone?

Taken by itself, Epi's ability to avoid lynch is aside from his alignment.

It is also key to why I think Epi's accusations aimed at LC on D1 ring false and the falseness of things Epi says are very important to determining his (or anyone's) alignment.

I'm really not sure why this is such a sticking point. Seems obvious to me.

So taken with it (Which I'm assuming is context) is epi's ability to dodge lynch alignment determining? How does that make sense? Am I missing something here?

It's a sticking point because it doesn't make sense. Why mention it doesn't determine alignment when it does determine alignment to you? If the context is what determined alignment why bring up?

[DrWilgy]

Penny for your thoughts, Doc?

Sorry I was getting to it when I had left work. I had half of what I just responded to you with on my work laptop and rewrote my thoughts on my phone.

[Elohcin]

I was amazed at how many called me scum in their gth reads. Does this reflect my contributions thus far or mostly what you were feeling from sprityo? Genuinely curious.

I fell asleep after your first handful of posts (you must have been boring )and just woke up to the GTH reads. So my read was about 90% sprit and 10% dunya, without having read most of your contributions.

Fair enough. I don't know you well, but I feel your answer here is genuine.

I kind of did my own GTH as I was reading through the thread. Of the low posters, I think Dom and wilgy may be good although there was one post of wilgy's that seemed very scum, but then he better explained himself and that sounded pretty genuine. But then again maybe it was a slip and he noticed how scum he sounded and then just tried to make up for it well. I think INH and mesk could be bad. Oh and sig is quiet too but I'm unsure about him. I could be missing some. Of the outspoken players, i think jjj, cbob, and dunya are good. I think thats all. The others are all in between participants imo, not over chatty and not too quiet. Maybe I'll try doing a list of my gth tomorrow qhere I can include everyone. I'm very sleepy.

[Sloonei]

At this stage i'll need to be convinced that colonialbob is town in order for me not to vote for him. Anyone got an argument?

[Jackofhearts2005]

At this stage i'll need to be convinced that colonialbob is town in order for me not to vote for him. Anyone got an argument?

There are too many suspicious players for Bob to be bad. Also, even when I disagree with him, I can kinda see where he's coming from.

[DrWilgy]

At this stage i'll need to be convinced that colonialbob is town in order for me not to vote for him. Anyone got an argument?

There are too many suspicious players for Bob to be bad. Also, even when I disagree with him, I can kinda see where he's coming from.

Where is he coming from?

[Kylemii]

[mention]dunya[/mention] I really do apologize. You're my friend and I don't want there to be any negativity between us. I was shocked that you were seemingly using our discussion of the sc2 games against me. I can see now how from the context from our talks that you might think that I didn't enjoy the second game, and it is true that I was much more willing to turn lemons into lemonade as a townie.

I think you'll find , despite the lack of an onslaught of lemons in this game, that my behavior and interest level in this game are closer to the level I displayed in the game where I was good than the game where I was wolves

[Jackofhearts2005]

I think you're overthinking the dancing metaphor, Doctor.

Point being, Epi is not an easy lynch, regardless of alignment and that should be taken into account when reading D1.

But why should that be taken to account? If it's non-alignment indicative what's the purpose other than to put a negative characteristic on someone?

Taken by itself, Epi's ability to avoid lynch is aside from his alignment.

It is also key to why I think Epi's accusations aimed at LC on D1 ring false and the falseness of things Epi says are very important to determining his (or anyone's) alignment.

I'm really not sure why this is such a sticking point. Seems obvious to me.

So taken with it (Which I'm assuming is context) is epi's ability to dodge lynch alignment determining? How does that make sense? Am I missing something here?

It's a sticking point because it doesn't make sense. Why mention it doesn't determine alignment when it does determine alignment to you? If the context is what determined alignment why bring up?

LC says "I think you are bad."
Epi says "Bah. I am good and you are bad trying to get an easy lynch!"

The underlined bit reads false because Epi is not easy to lynch. Epi knows this so that statement comes across as dishonest. Lynch all liars. Therefore, this makes Epi look scummy.

Dancing skill alone doesn't determine alignment. It determines how genuine the underlined/bolded statement from Epi is. Genuineness is generally a town tell and the opposite generally a scumtell.



Alternative example:
Epi says "I am the cop."
LC says "There is no cop based on the setup on the front page."
Jack says "Epi is probably scum."
Wilgy says "What? How is claiming cop scummy? Do you think cops are scum?"

[Jackofhearts2005]

At this stage i'll need to be convinced that colonialbob is town in order for me not to vote for him. Anyone got an argument?

There are too many suspicious players for Bob to be bad. Also, even when I disagree with him, I can kinda see where he's coming from.

Where is he coming from?

I find his pushes on me and Sloonei to be genuine sounding. I'm not going to vote for me or Sloonei but I don't scumread Bob for those posts.

[Sloonei]

At this stage i'll need to be convinced that colonialbob is town in order for me not to vote for him. Anyone got an argument?

There are too many suspicious players for Bob to be bad. Also, even when I disagree with him, I can kinda see where he's coming from.

I feel the opposite. There aren't enough genuinely suspicious players, so he occupies my top spot without much real competition. There are a lot of difficult-to-read players, however, and that is complicating matters.

[Epignosis]

I think you're overthinking the dancing metaphor, Doctor.

Point being, Epi is not an easy lynch, regardless of alignment and that should be taken into account when reading D1.

But why should that be taken to account? If it's non-alignment indicative what's the purpose other than to put a negative characteristic on someone?

Taken by itself, Epi's ability to avoid lynch is aside from his alignment.

It is also key to why I think Epi's accusations aimed at LC on D1 ring false and the falseness of things Epi says are very important to determining his (or anyone's) alignment.

I'm really not sure why this is such a sticking point. Seems obvious to me.

So taken with it (Which I'm assuming is context) is epi's ability to dodge lynch alignment determining? How does that make sense? Am I missing something here?

It's a sticking point because it doesn't make sense. Why mention it doesn't determine alignment when it does determine alignment to you? If the context is what determined alignment why bring up?

LC says "I think you are bad."
Epi says "Bah. I am good and you are bad trying to get an easy lynch!"

The underlined bit reads false because Epi is not easy to lynch. Epi knows this so that statement comes across as dishonest. Lynch all liars. Therefore, this makes Epi look scummy.

Dancing skill alone doesn't determine alignment. It determines how genuine the underlined/bolded statement from Epi is. Genuineness is generally a town tell and the opposite generally a scumtell.



Alternative example:
Epi says "I am the cop."
LC says "There is no cop based on the setup on the front page."
Jack says "Epi is probably scum."
Wilgy says "What? How is claiming cop scummy? Do you think cops are scum?"

Why am I not an easy lynch?

[colonialbob]

At this stage i'll need to be convinced that colonialbob is town in order for me not to vote for him. Anyone got an argument?

There are too many suspicious players for Bob to be bad. Also, even when I disagree with him, I can kinda see where he's coming from.

Why the change?

[Jackofhearts2005]

At this stage i'll need to be convinced that colonialbob is town in order for me not to vote for him. Anyone got an argument?

There are too many suspicious players for Bob to be bad. Also, even when I disagree with him, I can kinda see where he's coming from.

I feel the opposite. There aren't enough genuinely suspicious players, so he occupies my top spot without much real competition. There are a lot of difficult-to-read players, however, and that is complicating matters.

Pff. You and Bob are the most difficult to read players for me period, let alone in this game. (I tell myself I know how to read you now but idk if that's true.)

Tell me about your Wilgy, DDL, Mesk and Speed reads.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I think you're overthinking the dancing metaphor, Doctor.

Point being, Epi is not an easy lynch, regardless of alignment and that should be taken into account when reading D1.

But why should that be taken to account? If it's non-alignment indicative what's the purpose other than to put a negative characteristic on someone?

Taken by itself, Epi's ability to avoid lynch is aside from his alignment.

It is also key to why I think Epi's accusations aimed at LC on D1 ring false and the falseness of things Epi says are very important to determining his (or anyone's) alignment.

I'm really not sure why this is such a sticking point. Seems obvious to me.

So taken with it (Which I'm assuming is context) is epi's ability to dodge lynch alignment determining? How does that make sense? Am I missing something here?

It's a sticking point because it doesn't make sense. Why mention it doesn't determine alignment when it does determine alignment to you? If the context is what determined alignment why bring up?

LC says "I think you are bad."
Epi says "Bah. I am good and you are bad trying to get an easy lynch!"

The underlined bit reads false because Epi is not easy to lynch. Epi knows this so that statement comes across as dishonest. Lynch all liars. Therefore, this makes Epi look scummy.

Dancing skill alone doesn't determine alignment. It determines how genuine the underlined/bolded statement from Epi is. Genuineness is generally a town tell and the opposite generally a scumtell.



Alternative example:
Epi says "I am the cop."
LC says "There is no cop based on the setup on the front page."
Jack says "Epi is probably scum."
Wilgy says "What? How is claiming cop scummy? Do you think cops are scum?"

Why am I not an easy lynch?

I told you I wasn't going to explain things to you that you already know.

[Jackofhearts2005]

At this stage i'll need to be convinced that colonialbob is town in order for me not to vote for him. Anyone got an argument?

There are too many suspicious players for Bob to be bad. Also, even when I disagree with him, I can kinda see where he's coming from.

Why the change?

You elaborated more on your scumread of me since the last time I evaluated you. Said new things about Sloonei, too. Dunya, Speed, Wilgy look worse in my eyes.



Also, I keep forgetting there are 4 baddies and not 3 so I POEd you out of being likely scum.

[Sloonei]

At this stage i'll need to be convinced that colonialbob is town in order for me not to vote for him. Anyone got an argument?

There are too many suspicious players for Bob to be bad. Also, even when I disagree with him, I can kinda see where he's coming from.

I feel the opposite. There aren't enough genuinely suspicious players, so he occupies my top spot without much real competition. There are a lot of difficult-to-read players, however, and that is complicating matters.

Pff. You and Bob are the most difficult to read players for me period, let alone in this game. (I tell myself I know how to read you now but idk if that's true.)

Tell me about your Wilgy, DDL, Mesk and Speed reads.

Fun fact: I've drawn the same number of scum role cards in 2 games on MU as I have in ~3 years on the Syndicate.

I owe Wilgy a proper ISO. On a surface level glance, I like the tone of his posts. He fell behind at the beginning of the game, but he's not shied away from pumping the thread full of his thoughts as he catches back up. Shows both that he's engaged in catching up, and interested in promoting his own thoughts as he does so. I'd have to actually dig into what those thoughts are before I can say anything about him with much confidence.

I still go back to a single DDL post from Day 2 when he responded emotionally to the mounting suspicion against him. I don't think it was the sort of thing that's easy to fake, and I don't think DDL is a player who would fake an emotional outburst like that for town credibility. I also thought the progression which lead to his vote on you Day 2 looked natural and thoughtful.

I've never seen Mesk before this game. She's had trouble keeping up in the new environment. There is not much I can do with the content she has provided us at this time, so I've defaulted to having no reason to read her as town.

In my limited but valuable experience with speedchuck, he strikes me as a scarily good scum player. He's approaching this game with a sort of nonchalant and off-the-cuff attitude that still strikes me as being directed and active toward solving the game. I feel like scum speedchuck would be more inclined to fool us all by playing a textbook town game, and besides that I think I can recognize some genuine thought processes behind his posts. He's not the strongest town read, but I'd need to be thoroughly convinced in order to vote for him today.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Tell me more aunt Speedchuck solving.

[Jackofhearts2005]

*about.

(Speedchuck is my aunt the way DDL is Kyle's dad.)

[Sloonei]

I don't understand the question.

[Kylemii]

*about.

(Speedchuck is my aunt the way DDL is Kyle's dad.)

How many times will I have to say this? DDL is my actual real life dad in real life.

[Jackofhearts2005]

The nonchalantness makes me feel Speed [gogigadgetitalics]isn't[/italics] solving. So...I don't get that but if your read.

[Jackofhearts2005]

*about.

(Speedchuck is my aunt the way DDL is Kyle's dad.)

How many times will I have to say this? DDL is my actual real life dad in real life.

He's thirty seven. He's not old.

[Jackofhearts2005]

The nonchalantness makes me feel Speed [gogigadgetitalics]isn't[/italics] solving. So...I don't get that BIT OF your read.

EBWOP.

[Jackofhearts2005]

(Jimmy's back with graphs I hope)

[Sloonei]

The nonchalantness makes me feel Speed [gogigadgetitalics]isn't[/italics] solving. So...I don't get that but if your read.

I think that's the easier way to read a player when they approach the game more casually than is normal for them. I think this is the same reason nutella was in hot water on Day 1. But I tend to feel like this assumption that "nonchalant = not trying = scum" is wrong. in my experience scum players are generally more focused and rigid. And regardless of this, my approach is predominantly about trying to trace the line of thought that motivates a player's content. When I read speedchuck's posts, I do get the sense that there's a line of thought which has been developing since Day 1. Or at least I did when I ISO'd him a year ago at the beginning of Night 2.

[Sloonei]

*about.

(Speedchuck is my aunt the way DDL is Kyle's dad.)

How many times will I have to say this? DDL is my actual real life dad in real life.

He's thirty seven. He's not old.

Dennis D Luffy?

[Kylemii]

Dragon Dad Luffy, my father. :\

[nutella]

Yeah fuck it.

JACKOFHEARTS2005
NUTELLA
DRWILGY

Town (bc mechanical theories/have role in mind for him, otherwise would read scum)
Town
...Ttoowwwnn???

SPRITYO/DUNYA
SIG
EPIGNOSIS

Scum
Scum
Town... or indie

SLOONEI
DRAGON D. LUFFY
COLONIALBOB

Town
Town
Town

MOVINGPICTURES07/JAGGEDJIMMYJAY
LONG CON
MESK514

Town
Scum... or indie
Town

INSERTNAMEHERE/GLORFINDEL
SPACEDAISY
DOM

....wait what. is that a player in the game or are you fucking with me *checks player list* what the hell? has inh posted at all did I entirely miss this?!
Town
....Town

ELOHCIN
KYLEMII
SPEEDCHUCK
QUIN

Eh... Town
Town
...Town for the sake of the exercise but I'm about to look at his iso
Scum

[Kylemii]

I think the biggest thing I learned from today's GTH exercise was that glorfindel is playing the game, second biggest thing is that I don't trust LC as much as I did since he stopped going after Epignos

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Hopefully this isn't huge as hell and is legible on mobile.

Gun to head reads results

Spoiler: show

Please let me know if I entered your shit in incorrectly.

[nutella]

aw I was too late

[Jackofhearts2005]

Obviously, I'm looking to bus my buddies Speedchuck and Dunya so let's get on with that.

[Kylemii]

Okay so a lot of people (among participants) think dunya, Mesk, speedchuck are bad.

I don't fully understand the 5 bads on Jack? Wasn't jack confirmed good?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Some thoughts from the GTH reads:

~ The recurring meme with these things has been that the player to give the most civilian reads has tended to be mafia-aligned at a more-than-random rate. In this instance the culprits are Colonel Bob by count and Jack by percentage. Before I proceed with this notion though, I want to look back at the numerous other GTH charts I have saved on this laptop. This trend was one I noticed in the earlier stages of running this exercise, and I am not certain whether it has held overall. It's something that should be easy to check.

~ The initial inspiration (hi Quin) which made me think to do these today was the incursion of dunya into the game thread. She replaced a participant in the lower tier of content quantity and very quickly changed that reality for her player slot. I wanted to see how the people viewing the thread live as that developed would treat their sprityo/dunya reads in light of her content infusion. The results indicate that the general negative press on sprityo has proceeded onto dunya pretty seamlessly. I spoke of my reception of her entry to the game -- I'd like to hear how the GTH participants and otherwise feel about her in the immediate present in greater detail.

~ I'm surprised by the even split on Colonel Bob. Through the long night phase he seemed to attract and hold negative press without receiving much support if any. This was one of the more conflicted reads for me, and I may not be alone in that given the lack of consensus.

~ Daisy wins the Paranoia Award. I have seen on a couple occasions seen mafia-aligned players spam the GTHs with baddie reads, perhaps to avoid the dubious distinction in the first tilde here, or just to appear to be struggling with townie terror. I don't get this impression from Spacedaisy. The reads don't appear forced in that there is a clear low-poster trend visible in her B's. The mafia read on Quin was against the grain though, and it'd be groovy if you'd explore that aloud more Daisy.

~ What's your beef, dunya?

~ The primary value of these reads will come later in the form of interactive analyses and the like. For the moment, they serve us best as clear, consolidated stances and a means of exploring how our guts may surprise us and why.

[Kylemii]

I spoke of my reception of her entry to the game -- I'd like to hear how the GTH participants and otherwise feel about her in the immediate present in greater detail.

My read on dunya was definitely painted darker because of the disagreement we had run into pretty much at the exact time as the GTH reads were happening, I didn't actually suspect sprityo before he replaced out, though I know many did.

If I did a gth read for her now I'd probably still say bad but I'd be much more hesitant about it. I want to see what she brings to the table.

[Sloonei]

so i'm confirmed town now, right?