Mortal Kombat Mafia [ENDGAME]

[Sloonei]

I understand if you don't want to spend more time going into Jay, but for the sake of my read on you I am interested in the reasons you have already used to vote for him.

Who are the other suspects you're most strongly considering?

[sig]

mafia-fatigue is also not an exclusive emotion for any particular faction, but I do believe LC that it is at least in part to blame for his apparent lack of zest for this game.

If we assume LC is being honest and not just trying to lay low, then this actually makes me think he's town. I don't think scum LC would be so lackluster and so obvious about it, especially if he hasn't been mafia in awhile and had a big civ game and then rolled civ again. So I don't think we should lynch him today.

Also, Hi! @ sig

Howdy!

I'm surprised Made, JJJ, quin ect took the first page so serious it's odd seeing how it is day 0 first page.

What does this mean to you?

Nothing really besides the fact that y'all jumped the gun and started serious posting way to soon. Maybe I'll be able to glean some information later down the road, but for now nothing.

Food for thought: Jay reads me better than any other mafia player on Earth. I will arrogantly claim that I read him better than any other mafia player on Earth. We've both called each other "lock town reads" already in this game. How do people feel about this?

I think it's dangerous for town to just blindly accept your reads. First it's possible that one of you fooled the other this game or you could both be mafia, so anyone that blindly accepts that would be making a mistake, however I'd take into consideration your reads of each other.



Some other quick notes Nutella is looking good right now, LC I'd say leans good, Mac is posting as he always does as both a civ and mafia member so I can't really tell yet, 3J and Sloonie have alot of posts which is a pain, but minus Sloonie's Wilgy's comment he seems okay same with 3J. Though I don't quite see the case on Jack yet.
Made also looks okay.
Speed saying he'd vote for dunya was strange.

Also I'm reading this game out of order so my thoughts are kind off all over the place, if anyone has questions about my reads just let me know.

[Sloonei]

[mention]sig[/mention] This is my incomplete case on Jack, if you haven't gotten to it yet.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I understand if you don't want to spend more time going into Jay, but for the sake of my read on you I am interested in the reasons you have already used to vote for him.

Who are the other suspects you're most strongly considering?

Call it a mix of initial tone/powerlevel and overreaction to the picking of nits.

I have no reason to think Doc or Eloh are good. (Eloh's standard entrance of "you guys already posted X pages?!? is expected regardless of alignment.) Marmot, Sig go here, too.

Kyle I've talked about my tone read and Mac, who I believe to be good and have good instincts, is voting there. Mac's actual case is unconvincing but I've seen Mac make unconvincing cases and been right on the money.

LC is being voted for by Nutella, who I think is good but I'm unmoved by her case. Jimmy voting here doesn't do much for me and wouldn't even if I was certain he was bad. He's distancing Jack faker outer master. As for LC himself, he's with Eloh and Doc, no reason to think he's good yet. But actually? I don't want to vote for him. I'm decent at reading LC and will be more likely to figure him out later.

Tony falls into the same category as LC. I'll likely figure him out later so why lynch him Day 1?



Basically, take list. Remove people I haven't played with or who haven't checked in and people I have reason to believe are town and two people I think I'll get later.

That leaves a handful of people I know that I don't think much about and Kyle with a bad tone read.

I'd say I've convinced myself to vote Kyle at this point but since I started with the premise of "allow Sloonei to weigh in on my suspect pool" I think I'll do just that.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Jimmy's overreaction, not mine.

[Jackofhearts2005]

MacDougall please tell me what your current reads are on Jack, Made, LC, and Sloonei

What is this trend where players feel like they can just haphazardly make demands of other players like this? I do not like it. It is a very easy way to move the dialogue away from the topic at hand and you have given me no reason for why you chose those four names. Furthermore I have a very recent read on jack and LC so it really feels like you are just trying to change the conversation.

This part is kinda moving, actually.

[Sloonei]

I have not found a good reason to suspect Kyle in this game, but I also haven't looked closely at him in search of reasons. I put a bullshit vote on him to start the game to see if anyone would bite. I don't believe that his focus on mechanics is a bad look at all, but that was the justification I gave. A few people have cited it since then. I think Mac was one of them.

I've been town reading Mac, but his back-and-forths with Kyle, Jay, and Quin on the last couple pages all stood out to me for the same reason: I disagreed with Mac in all of them. Disagreement is not grounds for suspicion, but when it happens three times concurrently I begin to wonder about the method a player is using to draw their conclusions, and one of the possibilities is always that they're being disingenuous. It's frankly been too long since I played a game with scum Mac for me to have a solid meta read on his behavior, but from my memory of ancient RYM Mac, he can lie with tremendous conviction, so I don't take his strength and brute force, as Kyle put it, to be a definitive town tell. Consider Mac knocked down a peg oon my rainbow list.

I still need to finish this school application, so I'll probably be absent for several hours until it's finished.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I absolutely agree with you on a mechanics focused Kyle not being something to worry about. It's nai.

[Jackofhearts2005]

*votes Kyle anyway*

[nutella]

Yeah I've mostly read Kyle as civ but the player salad question to Mac out of left field was a pretty bad look. He claimed not to be trying to change the subject but its timing as a response to Mac's suspicion of him looked sloppy and haphazard. I definitely don't like it taken in isolation; in the context of the rest of Kyle's posts it's sliiightly better but I'd still prefer it didn't exist (and I tend to agree with Mac's hot take on the general practice of such questions)

linki sloonei decent critical thoughts on Mac. I'm also seeing him as very town but like I said about Jay I don't want to get too comfortable so I'll keep your idea in mind.

[sig]

I'm here! I'm here! I'm alive.

So I notice there's alot of day 0 talking is it serious or just fluff?

Also wow way to many posts.

Well hello there, looks like I've kinda caught up. So I'm going to post a few thoughts when they're still fresh from my catch up then I've gotta go for a run and will be back to ISO and reread some things later. What I'm seeing right now is we have a major three way smack down going on between Jay, Sloonie and Jack which I still don't really get. Mac is prodding, but as someone pointed out he's acting much more mellow which is odd, quin/kyle have both been under some suspicion which I'm not sure is justified based on there game play/what people are accusing them of and we have a fair amount of new players.
I'm reading Glorf as solid town and a few other players as lean towns who I've already listed. The main issue I'm having right now is that I don't see anyone being scummy.
Kyle had some odd early game posts, but I think has come back from it.
Made and nutella both look okay to me, but I'm curious why she placed me so far down on her list.
I'd like to see some more posts by Wilgy, Eloh, MM, and the newer players I feel like a few posters have the vast majority of posts/content which could let scum wallflower and not be noticed. I also find it odd that Wilgy isn't being as active/odd as he usually is. This could point to him being scum and trying to live longer, but seeing how often he's mislynched I don't think I'd vote for him.
LC is looking good I'd rather not lynch him.
Speed pinged me a bit, but I can't remember why so I'll need to go back and check.

[nutella]

wait who said Mac is "much more mellow" and what was their basis for that? much more mellow than what? I don't know what that means and it feels weird putting "Mac" and "mellow" in the same sentence. mmm smores...

[nutella]

and sig, I put you in the same tier as Wilgy and Marmot mostly because you haven't posted much yet so I have no reason to townread you. now that you're caught up and giving your thoughts you could maybe move up to mid-yellow

[Sloonei]

wait who said Mac is "much more mellow" and what was their basis for that? much more mellow than what? I don't know what that means and it feels weird putting "Mac" and "mellow" in the same sentence. mmm smores...

I had the exact same thought, minus the craving for s'mores. Until now, that is.

[nutella]

also [mention]sig[/mention] what in particular makes you feel good about LC? Some of his talk of meta/wanting to lay low D1 could be taken as genuine but I'm not sold on it.

[Sloonei]

Ask questions about mundane things. Get mundane answers. "Uninspiring."

Ask for gth reads. Get gth reads. "Not thought out."

You can summarize it for yourself. What a bullshit question.

what do people think of this post? I got the sense this was genuine frustration from Jack, in a place where I think a scum player might have been more responsive to my requests. I don't agree with his assessment of my prior analysis of him, but the emotion in this post feels authentic. If there's anything Jack has said which might get me to move my vote, it's this.

[nutella]

I didn't really understand what that post was about tbh. The lack of subjects is confusing.

[nutella]

Oh I see, he was talking about your responses to his responses to your questions.

Ehh, I guess it reads as genuine frustration but I think it's NAI.

[speedchuck]

On page 20. Mac's defense of LC and Jack is gross. Attack of Quinn is likewise gross.

I now have a read on mac.

LC looks worse than jack to me rn.

[Sloonei]

I went looking for the reason why I have a single vote. Here it is:

So I can’t figure out how to ISO him and I’m on mobile so everything might be a little clunky, but basically I was reading Made and Sloonei as w/w. Sloonei talked about Made with others but never directly as far as I can tell, which seems weird.

This is an inaccurate observation. I've talked directly with Made a bunch in this game. Granted, a big chunk of that came after this vote was placed (Starting here), but that doesn't mean I didn't try to engage with Made prior to that. Look here, here, here, and here. I've spent a lot of energy in this game trying to talk to Made, but I was unsuccessful until last night because he simply wasn't in the thread or wasn't giving me the answers I was looking for. But we were both here and he gave me good answers last night.
I talked about Made a lot because I thought he was a good lightning rod for conversation and anyone who was in the thread during Day 0/early Day 1 should have been able to read him in some way.

As for ISOs on mobile, we don't have a direct link to that for some reason. But Epi has updated the player list in Post #3 to include links to all of our ISOs. There is a direct ISO link on the desktop display.

I need to stop letting this game distract me now.

[Sloonei]

The page display cut my first line of text off at the closing parenthesis. That is the most unsightly thing I've ever seen in my life.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Actually I'm gonna drop made to orange. I don't see how putting out a scum read on someone and then not explaining why with even as much as a 'just a hunch' explanation is at all civvie and it's not responsible civ play even if he is one. Sort of nonsense that creates a game environment that allows scum players to hide in plain sight.

Let's see how civilian MacDougall responded to mafia JJJ in Transistor Mafia when told that civilians don't drop votes into a game without any kinds of explanations:

Spoiler: show

Here is a curly one..

After what Jamesthebob said at the end of the phase the only reason he had to vote for mp over me or llama was because he knew he was mafia and if he voted fot us he was votin town. He knows me well enough to be able to see the civ. He talkin boogers. That was a busserooni. Bank that.

This is crap. That I voted for MP over you or llama should not be hard to understand given the progression of the day phase and the discussions I had fielded with DrumBeats and Snapshot, not to mention MP himself. That's not to mention the self-preservation necessity of voting for someone who'd be a likely lynch while I was tied for the lead in the tally. These are plainly visible factors that you've neglected to acknowledge because they don't fit the narrative you're trying to promote.

If you're not talking boogers, then articulate why you suspect me in clear terms instead of unsupported one-liner nonsense. I know MacDougall isn't always above playing a lazy game, but I am completely unwilling to accept that excuse in a late phase when the game is on the line. I struggle to believe that a Mac who genuinely suspects a JJJ with the game on the line is going to settle for this kind of non-effort to pursue a lynch. Just dropping a vote in the thread and saying "Go!" at this point in the game is not town behavior from anybody.

Yes it is

[speedchuck]

2 pages later. Mac is awesome.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Hey, now I'm vote leader. Look dudes, I'm Civ. Take it like I'm Glorfindel this one time. Lynch me if you want a low poster. I'm reading along and hopefully some Mafia instincts will kick back in at some point.

Please clarify what you mean by this.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Speed saying he'd vote for dunya was strange.

Why is that strange? What does strange mean?

[speedchuck]

My suspects at this point (meaning people I'd be willing to lynch): Kylemii, Nutella, LC, marmot, wilgy.

Ask me questions if you want, I'll be home on a keyboard soon

[Sloonei]

Macdougall is my top suspect at the present moment. Discuss.

[Sloonei]

Look, I even voted for him.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Ask questions about mundane things. Get mundane answers. "Uninspiring."

Ask for gth reads. Get gth reads. "Not thought out."

You can summarize it for yourself. What a bullshit question.

what do people think of this post? I got the sense this was genuine frustration from Jack, in a place where I think a scum player might have been more responsive to my requests. I don't agree with his assessment of my prior analysis of him, but the emotion in this post feels authentic. If there's anything Jack has said which might get me to move my vote, it's this.

Throughout my interactions with Jack I have been trying to sort the difference between two perspectives: Jack is suspicious or Jack is confusing. The latter is definitely true in this game for me, but it doesn't imply the former. In that regard, if Jack is a civilian and is becoming frustrated, I think it should reflect that he is not getting his points across legibly to others. I do get that impression when he talks to you, and I don't get it when he talks to me. I'm also his suspect and you're not. I think for the moment I am willing to move on from this, because on some level it feels like Phenon Mafia. I just returned to that to judge my errant suspicion of him in that game, and while I wasn't quite so confused by him, I did have some difficulty getting him to answer questions and accusations in a manner that I immediately understood. Everything required follow-up questions and further clarification.

He's going to keep making posts, and if he's bad it'll reveal itself more clearly later.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Macdougall is my top suspect at the present moment. Discuss.

Is there more to it than your disagreements?

[DrWilgy]

My suspects at this point (meaning people I'd be willing to lynch): Kylemii, Nutella, LC, marmot, wilgy.

Ask me questions if you want, I'll be home on a keyboard soon

Interesting. Why me?

I've been at a convention all weekend. There are 20 something more pages than before. I'm not catching up. I'm just going to continue to prove that Sloonei is bad and is distancing from Mac. Hazelnut is also bad.

[Kylemii]

I just had a quick read of kyle's iso and I am dropping him to a suspect. I would support his lynch. He had utilised a lot of tactics I employ when mafia. Focus on mechanisms. Lots of fluffiness. Lots of civ reads and de-escalation and very little active accusations have come from him.

Who is bad Kyle?

I feel most of this is normal for town Kyle but I would still support a Kyle lynch today.

I don't see the shine. The cursing (multiple times) implies stress which implies bad alignment. Maybe that's a reach. Don't care. There's no shine.

hey what are you talking about? does cursing on the internet seem like a real stress response. is this seriously your case? jack listen to literally any vocaroo post and you'll hear me swearing casually.

[Sloonei]

My suspects at this point (meaning people I'd be willing to lynch): Kylemii, Nutella, LC, marmot, wilgy.

Ask me questions if you want, I'll be home on a keyboard soon

Interesting. Why me?

I've been at a convention all weekend. There are 20 something more pages than before. I'm not catching up. I'm just going to continue to prove that Sloonei is bad and is distancing from Mac. Hazelnut is also bad.

I love your stance on not catching up. I roll my eyes at your continued endeavor to paint me negatively. what do you hope to gain from this exercise?

[Sloonei]

Macdougall is my top suspect at the present moment. Discuss.

Is there more to it than your disagreements?

Yes.

[Made]

moving vote from nutella to Mac

C O N S O L D A T E

[Made]

moving vote from nutella to Mac

C O N S O L I D A T E

but spelled right

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I suspect sig. He gave a bunch of town reads including a dubious pass for Long Con, and the only suspicion he didn't in some way retract was "speedchuck saying he'd vote dunya is strange" -- the weakest of sauce. He was vaguely critical of Kyle and Sloonei, but didn't stick to either.

[Sloonei]

To whom it may concern,
The following are reads on Mac. Please use them for the advancement of the civilian cause.

1. this post, this post, this post and this post read like trying to start something without committing
2. this one bothers me because wilgy's talked about ratio to talked in game ratio is among the lowest in the game.
3. deflects to other players when providing reads without quoting, or highlights what he liked here.
4. this argument seems far less conclusive than arguments he's given on Nutella, Dave, and Wilgy, yet it's his strongest, and where his vote now lies.

Healthy suspicion is healthy, but it seems as Mac's posts aren't focused on winning, but on hiding potential fault.
Mac, which players this game read civvie to you?
Jack is next, thank you for your patience.

Regards,
Made's secretary

ebwop

Here's Made's reasons for suspecting Mac as stated earlier. Here's Mac's response. Made, how do you feel about Mac's handling of your suspicion?
Everyone else, how do you feel about both players in this exchange?

[Long Con]

Hey, now I'm vote leader. Look dudes, I'm Civ. Take it like I'm Glorfindel this one time. Lynch me if you want a low poster. I'm reading along and hopefully some Mafia instincts will kick back in at some point.

Please clarify what you mean by this.

Sure thing. Sometimes on Day 1, the lack of glaring scumtells and the absence of power-result-information or flips will lead people to say "I have no idea, let's just get rid of someone who isn't playing as much and pick it up for Day 2." kinda thing. Yes?

If that's where you this lynch, then so be it. I have probably cast a Day 1 low-poster vote more than once, so it's not like I shouldn't have my turn. You'd be lynching a Civ though.

[Long Con]

moving vote from nutella to Mac

C O N S O L I D A T E

but spelled right

hey what are you talking about? does cursing on the internet seem like a real stress response. is this seriously your case? jack listen to literally any vocaroo post and you'll hear me swearing casually.

This is a pretty good advertisement for them, maybe I'll check out a few.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Here's Made's reasons for suspecting Mac as stated earlier. Here's Mac's response. Made, how do you feel about Mac's handling of your suspicion?
Everyone else, how do you feel about both players in this exchange?

Made's accusations look authentic and reasoned. I kind of hate this:

Okay so you are suspicious of me for playing the way I play in every game.

Mac "playing the way he plays in every game" tends to draw suspicion by nature, and I don't care for his desire to earn meta points.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Sure thing. Sometimes on Day 1, the lack of glaring scumtells and the absence of power-result-information or flips will lead people to say "I have no idea, let's just get rid of someone who isn't playing as much and pick it up for Day 2." kinda thing. Yes?

If that's where you this lynch, then so be it. I have probably cast a Day 1 low-poster vote more than once, so it's not like I shouldn't have my turn. You'd be lynching a Civ though.

I'm pretty open to moving my vote. Do you have any recommendations?

[speedchuck]

My suspects at this point (meaning people I'd be willing to lynch): Kylemii, Nutella, LC, marmot, wilgy.

Ask me questions if you want, I'll be home on a keyboard soon

Interesting. Why me?

I've been at a convention all weekend. There are 20 something more pages than before. I'm not catching up. I'm just going to continue to prove that Sloonei is bad and is distancing from Mac. Hazelnut is also bad.

I don't buy excuses from you. You're the guy that has put out REASONED reads and SUBSTANTIATED arguments while literally just using smilies and quotes. I got you lynched for it in Pirate Mafia or some such, and it was a sigh of relief because you were onto us and had reasons. Wilgy, to me, is not a person that needs 20 posts and a dozen essays to make a helpful point. I think you could have been something this game with just the number of posts you've had.

But all you have done is tunnel outrageously on one of the most towny people in the game. It screams "LOOK AT ME BEING OBSTINATE, STUBBORN, AND NOT GOING WITH THE FLOW" without really giving us any grounds to engage or test it.

This response of yours solidifies that . . . except for the Nutella read. Which I agree with. But that's beside the point.

[Made]

Here's Made's reasons for suspecting Mac as stated earlier. Here's Mac's response. Made, how do you feel about Mac's handling of your suspicion?

[Marmot]

Thoughts on the icky Marmot?

More wuffly than Nutella

What has made me wuffly?

[Marmot]

@Sloonei @Jackofhearts2005 @Long Con
Why not?

Is that a question or an answer?

Yes.

I'm voting Marmot because I see no reason not to.
I'm voting him because he voted for a newbie.

Why should I NOT vote for Marmot?

To expand upon that, there have been a lot of votes-for-no-stated-reason in this topic. But when I post one, I immediately get FOUR 'why?'s. I want an explanation as to why my vote is so danged baffling.

You're voting for me for... Voting for nova for the same reason?

[speedchuck]

Here's Made's reasons for suspecting Mac as stated earlier. Here's Mac's response. Made, how do you feel about Mac's handling of your suspicion?

Yeah that post put Mac back down from awesome to iffy.

I like his style. But his style is the only thing I like about him so far. (like == town read)

If that's what he does every game, then we're back to square one with some weird defensive arguments of ill-rationalized tunneling.

[Made]

Thoughts on the icky Marmot?

More wuffly than Nutella

What has made me wuffly?

dis one

[Glorfindel]

I'm here! I'm here! I'm alive.

So I notice there's alot of day 0 talking is it serious or just fluff?

Also wow way to many posts.

Well hello there, looks like I've kinda caught up. So I'm going to post a few thoughts when they're still fresh from my catch up then I've gotta go for a run and will be back to ISO and reread some things later. What I'm seeing right now is we have a major three way smack down going on between Jay, Sloonie and Jack which I still don't really get. Mac is prodding, but as someone pointed out he's acting much more mellow which is odd, quin/kyle have both been under some suspicion which I'm not sure is justified based on there game play/what people are accusing them of and we have a fair amount of new players.
I'm reading Glorf as solid town and a few other players as lean towns who I've already listed. The main issue I'm having right now is that I don't see anyone being scummy.
Kyle had some odd early game posts, but I think has come back from it.
Made and nutella both look okay to me, but I'm curious why she placed me so far down on her list.
I'd like to see some more posts by Wilgy, Eloh, MM, and the newer players I feel like a few posters have the vast majority of posts/content which could let scum wallflower and not be noticed. I also find it odd that Wilgy isn't being as active/odd as he usually is. This could point to him being scum and trying to live longer, but seeing how often he's mislynched I don't think I'd vote for him.
LC is looking good I'd rather not lynch him.
Speed pinged me a bit, but I can't remember why so I'll need to go back and check.

I’m surprised by this. This is your second consecutive post where you’ve used sound sentence construction, proper use of punctuation and near-perfect spelling. Just who are you and what have you done with our Sig?

[speedchuck]

@Sloonei @Jackofhearts2005 @Long Con
Why not?

Is that a question or an answer?

Yes.

I'm voting Marmot because I see no reason not to.
I'm voting him because he voted for a newbie.

Why should I NOT vote for Marmot?

To expand upon that, there have been a lot of votes-for-no-stated-reason in this topic. But when I post one, I immediately get FOUR 'why?'s. I want an explanation as to why my vote is so danged baffling.

You're voting for me for... Voting for nova for the same reason?

Silly Marmot. You're not a newbie.

It was moreso for the first reason. Though I should probably think about moving my vote. Consolidation, plus I have stankyer fish to fry.


linki: [mention]Glorfindel[/mention] nervous tell for Sig? Or did he just go to school?