Fiddler on the Roof Mafia

[DFaraday]

FIDDLER ON THE ROOF MAFIA

Player List:

1. Epi - killed Night 4
2. Nutella - killed Night 3
3. Wilgy
4. Daisy - lynched Day 1 - Motel
5. LC - lynched Day 3 - The Constable
6. Kylemii
7. Dyslexicon
8. FZ
9. Speed - killed Night 2
10. JJJ
11. Marmot
12. Sloonei - killed Night 4
13. Lorab - lynched Day 2 - Random Soldier
14. Dave - replaced by Daisy Day 2
15. Novaselinenever
16. Mac

Rules:

1. No role outing or infodumping.
2. No illegal BTSC.
3. Stay civil. PM Quin if you are having issues with other players.
4. No post editing.
5. No double targeting.
6. Purple is the host color.

Roles:


CIVVIES
Tevye

Tevye is a simple milkman who loves his family and traditions. He will protect someone every night. If he protects one of his daughters, they will gain BTSC. He may only have BTSC with one daughter at a time (ie., until one dies).

Golde

Golde knows the way to make a proper home, a quiet home, a kosher home. She may stop one lynch.

Tzeitel

Tzeitel, Tevye's eldest daughter, is independent and wants to marry based on love. For every lynch in which she takes no votes, she will start the next lynch with -1 vote.

Hodel

Hodel, the second daughter, loves Perchik and is willing to go far from the home she loves to be with him. Twice in the game she may choose to visit him in Siberia; if she is targeted on those nights nothing will happen.

Chava

Tevye's third daughter is an avid reader. Every night she may read up on a player and discover their role.

Motel

The tailor Motel Kamzoil loves Tzeitel and gains courage from his love for her. If Motel votes the same way as Tzeitel in a lynch, his vote will count for three.

Perchik

Perchik is a revolutionary, wanting to usher in a new era to Russia. It didn't pan out so well. To shake things up, he will redirect a player every night.

Fyedka

A local Russian Gentile, Fyedka is not a target of the authorities. He will survive the first attempt on his life.

Lazar Wolf

The local butcher, whose name sounds exactly like "Laser Wolf." On odd nights Lazar Wolf will transform into a wolf and track a player. On even nights he will shoot lasers at someone, blocking them.

Yente

The matchmaker knows best, right? Of course right. Every night Yente will search a player and discover whether they have BTSC.

Avram

He's the guy on the left. Avram is the local bookkeeper and one of the few in town with access to news of the outside world. He will post his thoughts each day.

The Rabbi

The Rabbi is recognized as the spiritual authority in town. He will decide any ties.

THE RUSSIAN POLICE
The Constable

The Constable carries out the team's kill every night.

This Guy

This Guy is a Russian Official who demands that pogroms be carried out to assert Russian authority. He will inflict a punishment of his choice on a player each night.

Random Soldier
Random Soldier may block a player every night.


INDEPENDENT

Fruma Sarah

Fruma Sarah is Lazar Wolf's deceased wife, now out for ghostly revenge. SECRET


ISO links:
Dave
DrWilgy
Dyslexicon
Epignosis
FZ.
JaggedJimmyJay
Kylemii
Long Con
LoRab
MacDougall
Marmot
novaselinenever
nutella
Sloonei
Spacedaisy
speedchuck

And our host, DFaraday.

[DFaraday]

All roles have been sent out. The first post will be up later.

[DFaraday]

Day 0 - Any Day Now

Anatevka. Anatevka has been our home for many years. Yes, it is hard work, yes, we are poor, yes, we struggle to get by every day. But as the Good Book says, "A hard life leads to a happy death." Don't ask me where it says that. It's somewhere in the back.

We have been here for generations. But not just us, our neighbors who make up the wider town. They keep to themselves, and we are happy to do the same. Avram sometimes brings word of this edict or that threat that the Tsar makes, and I thank God that we live far away from him. So far, he has not noticed our little town, and no trouble has come to us. You may ask, "What would happen if there were trouble in Anatevka?" I'll tell you...

I don't know.

What's this? Avram is sprinting into the town square, as white as the milk I carry into the village each morning.

"Fruma Sarah is dead!" he says. The crowd is shocked, because they didn't even know she was sick.

"Dead?"

"The butcher's wife?"

"Yes, and not only dead - murdered!"

So, trouble has come to Anatevka. Well, what can you do?

It is now Day 0. You have 24 hours to check in and discuss who may have turned Fruma Sarah into a vengeful spirit.

[speedchuck]

Shalom

[Kylemii]

mmmmmmmmlets fiddler-go!

[novaselinenever]

Hello ! Good game to everyone

[Sloonei]

[Long Con]

When the fiddler gets to the roof, does the game end? Who is the fiddler?

[Spacedaisy]

[Kylemii]

When the fiddler gets to the roof, does the game end? Who is the fiddler?

the fiddler is a metaphor for survival in uncertain times times

the play is not even about violinists, or roof construction. that was a disappointment for me in highschool since those were two major interests for me

[Quin]

im the mod

[nutella]

L'chaim / game on

[Sloonei]

When the fiddler gets to the roof, does the game end? Who is the fiddler?

the fiddler is a metaphor for survival in uncertain times times

the play is not even about violinists, or roof construction. that was a disappointment for me in highschool since those were two major interests for me

So what you're saying is it's hard to be Jewish in Russia, yo?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm here to catch the diddler on the roof.

[Long Con]

When the fiddler gets to the roof, does the game end? Who is the fiddler?

the fiddler is a metaphor for survival in uncertain times times

the play is not even about violinists, or roof construction. that was a disappointment for me in highschool since those were two major interests for me

Those uncertain times times are harder than good times times. How does that metaphor work - is it because being a fiddler isn't stable employment?

[Kylemii]

When the fiddler gets to the roof, does the game end? Who is the fiddler?

the fiddler is a metaphor for survival in uncertain times times

the play is not even about violinists, or roof construction. that was a disappointment for me in highschool since those were two major interests for me

Those uncertain times times are harder than good times times. How does that metaphor work - is it because being a fiddler isn't stable employment?

don't blame me, blame the website I copied and paraphrased it from

I always figured it was cus like.... you see a fiddler on the roof? he's having the time of his life, maybe he's playing wonderwall or something, maybe everyone's watching and clapping? but like any minute it could start raining or maybe a bird poops on the fiddler and suddenly the fiddler just slips off the roof and just fucking dies I guess?

like being on a roof is already dangerous but adding on fiddle playing which requires a good amount of arm wiggling adds a new layer of danger. anything could happen

[Sloonei]

Typically the Devil is depicted as playing a fiddle, and "the roof" in the cosmic sense is Heaven, so "Fiddler on the Roof" clearly is about living in cruel and unjust world.

[Dyslexicon]

If I ever get a roof I can call my own, I will place a fiddler on it.
The fiddler will have to be rented though. I don't want the responsibility of taking care of a fiddler.

[DFaraday]

The metaphor is explained in the narration:

"But in our little village of Anatevka, you might say every one of us is a fiddler on the roof, trying to scratch out a pleasant, simple tune without breaking his neck."

[Kylemii]

The metaphor is explained in the narration:

"But in our little village of Anatevka, you might say every one of us is a fiddler on the roof, trying to scratch out a pleasant, simple tune without breaking his neck."

hell yeah. my sister was a drama kid. don't ever question my fiddler knowledge, I've seen this play 6 times B)

[MacDougall]

Prepare to be circumcised.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Kyle is with the Russian Police. Discuss.

[Long Con]

Kyle is with the Russian Police. Discuss.

He is? What is there to discuss then, let's string him up!

[Kylemii]

Kyle is with the Russian Police. Discuss.

strongly disagree

[speedchuck]

When the fiddler gets to the roof, does the game end? Who is the fiddler?

the fiddler is a metaphor for survival in uncertain times times

the play is not even about violinists, or roof construction. that was a disappointment for me in highschool since those were two major interests for me

Those uncertain times times are harder than good times times. How does that metaphor work - is it because being a fiddler isn't stable employment?

don't blame me, blame the website I copied and paraphrased it from

I always figured it was cus like.... you see a fiddler on the roof? he's having the time of his life, maybe he's playing wonderwall or something, maybe everyone's watching and clapping? but like any minute it could start raining or maybe a bird poops on the fiddler and suddenly the fiddler just slips off the roof and just fucking dies I guess?

like being on a roof is already dangerous but adding on fiddle playing which requires a good amount of arm wiggling adds a new layer of danger. anything could happen

In the movie, Tevye says that "Without traditions, our life would be as shaky as a fiddler on the roof" or some such. Basically, in the harsh climate with the Russians hanging about, the Jews are sticking to their traditions doggedly. They try to enjoy their lives and traditions as if they aren't in a precarious position. As life happens, and Tevye keeps having to reject traditions for those he loves, he sees the fiddler more and more.

Something like that. It's a good film. My second favorite non-Disney musical. I assume the play is good too.

[speedchuck]

Kyle is with the Russian Police. Discuss.

strongly disagree

He's strong-arming us!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Kyle is with the Russian Police. Discuss.

strongly disagree

I'm afraid that is irrelevant. I know your tell and you have revealed yourself. I am sorry to wreck your game so quickly, but it's just how this works.

[speedchuck]

fucking

*votes Kylemii*

[Kylemii]

Kyle is with the Russian Police. Discuss.

strongly disagree

I'm afraid that is irrelevant. I know your tell and you have revealed yourself. I am sorry to wreck your game so quickly, but it's just how this works.

that's actually 100% false? first of all, I am a kind and hard-working citizen of Anetevka, so that part's wrong

second of all you've never even seen me play as mafia before, the only player in recent history who has is dunya and even then it was just one game under unique circumstances, not enough to build correlation from

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Kyle is with the Russian Police. Discuss.

strongly disagree

I'm afraid that is irrelevant. I know your tell and you have revealed yourself. I am sorry to wreck your game so quickly, but it's just how this works.

that's actually 100% false? first of all, I am a kind and hard-working citizen of Anetevka, so that part's wrong

second of all you've never even seen me play as mafia before, the only player in recent history who has is dunya and even then it was just one game under unique circumstances, not enough to build correlation from

I spectated your sc2 game.

[Kylemii]

okay so you think a 48 hour long game with teens who kept being terrible dicks to each other is going to be indicative of how I play in a real game as mafia?

one game isn't enough for real tell correlation, famous poker player sneezes the first time they roll a full house you don't just assume that they have a full house the second time they sneeze

[JaggedJimmyJay]

okay so you think a 48 hour long game with teens who kept being terrible dicks to each other is going to be indicative of how I play in a real game as mafia?

one game isn't enough for real tell correlation, famous poker player sneezes the first time they roll a full house you don't just assume that they have a full house the second time they sneeze

So you recognize the parallel then?

[Kylemii]

i don't recognize any parallel

[Kylemii]

i actually kinda assumed you were lying for standard day zero jay-prod purposes?

[speedchuck]

If I may make an observation, regarding the setup:

Tevye can get BTSC with his daughters. In doing so, he can confirm them town to himself. So that's neat.

However, if he doesn't search for them, the town gains a cop in the match-maker. Match-maker can search for BTSC, which would (if Tevye doesn't submit actions) only be held by the mafia.

We trade off a BTSC-finder and a town searcher/btsc/lover thing for a cop. Does anyone think this is a good idea?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If I may make an observation, regarding the setup:

Tevye can get BTSC with his daughters. In doing so, he can confirm them town to himself. So that's neat.

However, if he doesn't search for them, the town gains a cop in the match-maker. Match-maker can search for BTSC, which would (if Tevye doesn't submit actions) only be held by the mafia.

We trade off a BTSC-finder and a town searcher/btsc/lover thing for a cop. Does anyone think this is a good idea?

Game with infodumping and role-claiming: cop > probabilistic/interval civilian BTSC inclusive of four

Game without infordumping and role-claiming (like this one):

I'm going to say the cop is slightly weaker in this case. Without reveals, civilian BTSC becomes one of the strongest available roles, because it is easier to read -- it involves two people simultaneously vouching for each other. A cop can only promote reads him or herself, and it might not be as easy for others to figure out that there is an information basis behind those reads.

It's debatable though. speedchuck is a civilian for discovering that this question is worth asking.

[Kylemii]

If I may make an observation, regarding the setup:

Tevye can get BTSC with his daughters. In doing so, he can confirm them town to himself. So that's neat.

However, if he doesn't search for them, the town gains a cop in the match-maker. Match-maker can search for BTSC, which would (if Tevye doesn't submit actions) only be held by the mafia.

We trade off a BTSC-finder and a town searcher/btsc/lover thing for a cop. Does anyone think this is a good idea?

I... don't agree. Civvie btsc can be an incredibly powerful tool when both players are active, and to enact your plan would mean purposefully not using a doctor, which comes with it's own problems. the matchmakers results should already be helpful so long as that player takes their results with a grain of salt and considers contextual information. it's not worth losing two powerful resources to increase the power of one.

[Spacedaisy]

If I may make an observation, regarding the setup:

Tevye can get BTSC with his daughters. In doing so, he can confirm them town to himself. So that's neat.

However, if he doesn't search for them, the town gains a cop in the match-maker. Match-maker can search for BTSC, which would (if Tevye doesn't submit actions) only be held by the mafia.

We trade off a BTSC-finder and a town searcher/btsc/lover thing for a cop. Does anyone think this is a good idea?

This is interesting. I need to think on this because traditionally I've always viewed civs with BTSC as one of the strongest things the civs can have...

[Epignosis]

Oy vey.

Do I have a confession to make!

Spoiler: show

It has been ages since I have seen Fiddler on the Roof, but even so, I was sure I remembered the general setting and time period. I could not recall stylish leather jackets or automobiles. Or 1970s storefronts. I thought there was a part of the film I had forgotten or maybe somehow not seen. Then it occurred to me who that is.



"And people say my ass is high."

[speedchuck]

If I may make an observation, regarding the setup:

Tevye can get BTSC with his daughters. In doing so, he can confirm them town to himself. So that's neat.

However, if he doesn't search for them, the town gains a cop in the match-maker. Match-maker can search for BTSC, which would (if Tevye doesn't submit actions) only be held by the mafia.

We trade off a BTSC-finder and a town searcher/btsc/lover thing for a cop. Does anyone think this is a good idea?

I... don't agree. Civvie btsc can be an incredibly powerful tool when both players are active, and to enact your plan would mean purposefully not using a doctor, which comes with it's own problems. the matchmakers results should already be helpful so long as that player takes their results with a grain of salt and considers contextual information. it's not worth losing two powerful resources to increase the power of one.

Oh wow I completely missed the doctor thing. Yeah, no. Not even a question anymore.

[Sloonei]

If I may make an observation, regarding the setup:

Tevye can get BTSC with his daughters. In doing so, he can confirm them town to himself. So that's neat.

However, if he doesn't search for them, the town gains a cop in the match-maker. Match-maker can search for BTSC, which would (if Tevye doesn't submit actions) only be held by the mafia.

We trade off a BTSC-finder and a town searcher/btsc/lover thing for a cop. Does anyone think this is a good idea?

Game with infodumping and role-claiming: cop > probabilistic/interval civilian BTSC inclusive of four

Game without infordumping and role-claiming (like this one):

I'm going to say the cop is slightly weaker in this case. Without reveals, civilian BTSC becomes one of the strongest available roles, because it is easier to read -- it involves two people simultaneously vouching for each other. A cop can only promote reads him or herself, and it might not be as easy for others to figure out that there is an information basis behind those reads.

It's debatable though. speedchuck is a civilian for discovering that this question is worth asking.

He could have conceived of the question pre-game. Null read for me.

I'd probably prefer civ BTSC to an unclaimable cop thing.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Do people actually read all the roles before games even start?

[Sloonei]

Do people actually read all the roles before games even start?

Sometimes. I like to know what's gonna be going on.

[Kylemii]

I really don't think we're going to be starved for information in this game anyways, out of the gate we have a btsc cop, a role cop, a role blocker, and a doctor who can gain btsc with 1 of 3 different civ roles, one of which is the previously mentioned role cop, we also have a soapbox user and a mayor.

the number of roles we have that can stimulate the information economy seems pretty good.

[speedchuck]

Do people actually read all the roles before games even start?

I don't, apparently. Or, at least, not accurately, or I would have seen the doctor.

I don't think I read the roles in Mountain Mafia until we had the 4th phase with no deaths. But then again, I didn't care. I was 3P.

[Epignosis]

I really don't think we're going to be starved for information in this game anyways, out of the gate we have a btsc cop, a role cop, a role blocker, and a doctor who can gain btsc with 1 of 3 different civ roles, one of which is the previously mentioned role cop, we also have a soapbox user and a mayor.

the number of roles we have that can stimulate the information economy seems pretty good.

Did I hear someone say, "information?"

[Sloonei]

I really don't think we're going to be starved for information in this game anyways, out of the gate we have a btsc cop, a role cop, a role blocker, and a doctor who can gain btsc with 1 of 3 different civ roles, one of which is the previously mentioned role cop, we also have a soapbox user and a mayor.

the number of roles we have that can stimulate the information economy seems pretty good.

Did I hear someone say, "information?"

Interesting

[Kylemii]

I really don't think we're going to be starved for information in this game anyways, out of the gate we have a btsc cop, a role cop, a role blocker, and a doctor who can gain btsc with 1 of 3 different civ roles, one of which is the previously mentioned role cop, we also have a soapbox user and a mayor.

the number of roles we have that can stimulate the information economy seems pretty good.

Did I hear someone say, "information?"

This is the *literal* mafia context definition of information this time, Professor Gnosis. :-p

[nutella]

okay so you think a 48 hour long game with teens who kept being terrible dicks to each other is going to be indicative of how I play in a real game as mafia?

one game isn't enough for real tell correlation, famous poker player sneezes the first time they roll a full house you don't just assume that they have a full house the second time they sneeze

So you recognize the parallel then?

boom rekt

[Kylemii]

okay so you think a 48 hour long game with teens who kept being terrible dicks to each other is going to be indicative of how I play in a real game as mafia?

one game isn't enough for real tell correlation, famous poker player sneezes the first time they roll a full house you don't just assume that they have a full house the second time they sneeze

So you recognize the parallel then?

boom rekt

I really don't recognise the parallel. I don't even know for sure if there is one without looking. In this game I've comfortably talked about musicals with people I already know, and in that game (I think?) I spent the first several of my posts trying to get to know the players on that site. I'm like 60% sure Jay is just making things up to prod for reactions but if not then he's wrong and his basis is flawed. If there really is a parallel Jay sees then it's 100% just a coincidence and not caused by alignment-bias.