Fiddler on the Roof Mafia

[Sloonei]

Oh good. No, I didn’t know that. I’m persuing your lynch because your case on Epig was bad.

Anyway, it’s ok if you want to move on from that. Completely.

What do you mean by "move on from that"? And what was bad about my case on Epignosis?

I’ve literally said everything I want to say about that: I’m persuing your lynch as you know because you case on Epig was bad. I don’t want to or need to talk about it more. Stop, breathe, and think quitly or just move on.

As an uninvolved third party, I found myself knowing less about you in this game now than I did before you showed up tonight. I would appreciate it if you did talk more about things.

[speedchuck]

Looking at LC's post on speedchuck, his main point against him was that he jumped on the kylewagon and then didn't let go--which is simmilar to what he did here. So, that makes me eyeball him more.

Clarification: Eyeballing me or LC more?

[LoRab]

Looking at LC's post on speedchuck, his main point against him was that he jumped on the kylewagon and then didn't let go--which is simmilar to what he did here. So, that makes me eyeball him more.

Clarification: Eyeballing me or LC more?

Eyeballing you more.

[Dyslexicon]

I’m doing everything I possibly can to help you.

I think NVN would make a decent alternative if I wasn’t so occupied with persuing your lynch because your case on Epig was bad.

Last try. You, Speed and Epig should try figure out if I’m town or scum here. Good luck if you need it.

[speedchuck]

Mac
Epi
LC

Wilgy

FZ
nutella
Kyle
daisy 2
JJJ

Marmot
Nova

Sloonei
Dizzy
LoRab

This is the readlist I posted earlier, now without color or reasons

[Epignosis]

I moved my vote for the time being.

[Dyslexicon]

If anyone gets an aha-moment, just talk about my alignment.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I’m doing everything I possibly can to help you.

I think NVN would make a decent alternative if I wasn’t so occupied with persuing your lynch because your case on Epig was bad.

Last try. You, Speed and Epig should try figure out if I’m town or scum here. Good luck if you need it.

Theory: Dizzy has been forced to vote for me via the This Guy role and "a punishment of his choice".

[Sloonei]

Well, we already know I'm suspicious of Epi. Looking at LC's post on speedchuck, his main point against him was that he jumped on the kylewagon and then didn't let go--which is simmilar to what he did here. So, that makes me eyeball him more. Wilgy? I have no idea. He's Wilgy. 3J I don't suspect for this.

What do you think?

I think that the substance of your Epignosis suspicion is unclear. I see that you are suspicious of him, but I don't quite see why. Could you talk more about that?
I'm also not sure what to make of your speedchuck suspicion here. what is the relationship between Long Con's case against speedchuck, speedchuck's pressure of kyle, and speedchuck's involvement in this nutella bandwagon?

[speedchuck]

If anyone gets an aha-moment, just talk about my alignment.

Link to a dizzy scum game

I don't have time to look at it and compare

[Dyslexicon]

I moved my vote for the time being.

Thank you.

-

Also, I really do need to sleep. Good night, all.

[Sloonei]

I moved my vote for the time being.

I take it this is a temporary position.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

*looks at novaselinenever's post history and sighs*

[Sloonei]

I’m doing everything I possibly can to help you.

I think NVN would make a decent alternative if I wasn’t so occupied with persuing your lynch because your case on Epig was bad.

Last try. You, Speed and Epig should try figure out if I’m town or scum here. Good luck if you need it.

Theory: Dizzy has been forced to vote for me via the This Guy role and "a punishment of his choice".

[Epignosis]

I moved my vote for the time being.

I take it this is a temporary position.

It is. I don't trust you, but my vote isn't staying there today.

Unless I fall asleep.

[Dyslexicon]

I’m doing everything I possibly can to help you.

I think NVN would make a decent alternative if I wasn’t so occupied with persuing your lynch because your case on Epig was bad.

Last try. You, Speed and Epig should try figure out if I’m town or scum here. Good luck if you need it.

Oh great. You did not pay attetion. Anyway, I will need to deal with this later. Shush!

Theory: Dizzy has been forced to vote for me via the This Guy role and "a punishment of his choice".

[Sloonei]

Mac
Epi
LC

Wilgy

FZ
nutella
Kyle
daisy 2
JJJ

Marmot
Nova

Sloonei
Dizzy
LoRab

This is the readlist I posted earlier, now without color or reasons

Does this reflect your current feelings?

[Kylemii]

Fam if you wouldn't mind I had a Kyle and long con team as a good possibility. Would you mind looking at their interactions and sharing with me your thoughts when you have a moment?

I did a brief search. They seemed to have a small flare up early in the game around the Day 0 Kyle nonsense, but after that they both seemed to quietly settled on town reads of each other with little visible movement in the thread. That's something I wouldn't mind talking about.
@Kylemii @Long Con, mind elaborating on how your early reads of one another developed?

I initially viewed his cropping of my post as being opportunistic and sneaky, I felt better when he apologized later I felt better about him, it seemed like a realistic mistake. Coming into day 2 I decided to press a tiny reset button in my brain. Many of my day 1 reads were poisoned by emotions and stress. LC's case he made coming into today gave me an impression of good. I've seen LC in many games and been disappointed by his lack of involvement. (not in a shame on you way but like in a, I wish LC would play more way] so seeing a case from him at all was a sign of proactiveness, indicative ofpositive vibes

[Dyslexicon]

Only thing to discuss: Am I town or scum. I made that clear.

[Sloonei]

I moved my vote for the time being.

I take it this is a temporary position.

It is. I don't trust you, but my vote isn't staying there today.

Unless I fall asleep.

Let's figure out where it's gonna go if you stay awake then. who are you considering?

[Epignosis]

Dyslexicon, if you're still around, can you tell me what your opinion is of the new Spacedaisy?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Oh great. You did not pay attetion. Anyway, I will need to deal with this later. Shush!

Oops.

I didn't quite gather all of your intended meaning there, but I think I follow in alignment terms. I'm not keeping my vote here.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]speedchuck[/mention], Dyslexicon read right now GO

[Sloonei]

Fam if you wouldn't mind I had a Kyle and long con team as a good possibility. Would you mind looking at their interactions and sharing with me your thoughts when you have a moment?

I did a brief search. They seemed to have a small flare up early in the game around the Day 0 Kyle nonsense, but after that they both seemed to quietly settled on town reads of each other with little visible movement in the thread. That's something I wouldn't mind talking about.
@Kylemii @Long Con, mind elaborating on how your early reads of one another developed?

I initially viewed his cropping of my post as being opportunistic and sneaky, I felt better when he apologized later I felt better about him, it seemed like a realistic mistake. Coming into day 2 I decided to press a tiny reset button in my brain. Many of my day 1 reads were poisoned by emotions and stress. LC's case he made coming into today gave me an impression of good. I've seen LC in many games and been disappointed by his lack of involvement. (not in a shame on you way but like in a, I wish LC would play more way] so seeing a case from him at all was a sign of proactiveness, indicative ofpositive vibes

Talk about your read of him at the point of this GTH list:

Spoiler: show

@Kylemii

GTH reads on every player please. I would appreciate it. You don't have to research them or think too hard. Just give me the gut takes. Copy the list here if you like:

Epi - good
Nutella - good
Wilgy - good
Daisy - bad
LC - good
Dyslexicon - good
FZ - bad
Speed - good
JJJ - good
Marmot - bad
Sloonei -bad
Lorab - good
Dave - ???
Novaselinenever - ???
Mac - good

The town read you're describing right now speaks to his Day 2 involvement, but you had him down as good prior to today as well.

[LoRab]

Well, we already know I'm suspicious of Epi. Looking at LC's post on speedchuck, his main point against him was that he jumped on the kylewagon and then didn't let go--which is simmilar to what he did here. So, that makes me eyeball him more. Wilgy? I have no idea. He's Wilgy. 3J I don't suspect for this.

What do you think?

I think that the substance of your Epignosis suspicion is unclear. I see that you are suspicious of him, but I don't quite see why. Could you talk more about that?
I'm also not sure what to make of your speedchuck suspicion here. what is the relationship between Long Con's case against speedchuck, speedchuck's pressure of kyle, and speedchuck's involvement in this nutella bandwagon?

My suspicion of Epi is that he's going after players in a way that he does when he's bad, particularly when he's bad in a speed game--I've tried to explain it a few times now...not sure how to differently articulate my feelings.

And my suspicion of speedchuck, based on his jumping on the LA bandwagon, coupled wit LC's case--which I read as, essentially, jumpting on the kyle bandwagon--show a pattern of behavior which I don't see as civ behavior. Does that make more sense?

[Epignosis]

My suspicion of Epi is that he's going after players in a way that he does when he's bad, particularly when he's bad in a speed game--I've tried to explain it a few times now...not sure how to differently articulate my feelings.

I'm Epi, and I don't know what you're talking about.

You can name twelve different methods and accuse me of doing those things when I am bad and still be accurate.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

My suspicion of Epi is that he's going after players in a way that he does when he's bad, particularly when he's bad in a speed game--I've tried to explain it a few times now...not sure how to differently articulate my feelings.

I'm Epi, and I don't know what you're talking about.

You can name twelve different methods and accuse me of doing those things when I am bad and still be accurate.

Why aren't you lynching Sloonei today?

[Sloonei]

Well, we already know I'm suspicious of Epi. Looking at LC's post on speedchuck, his main point against him was that he jumped on the kylewagon and then didn't let go--which is simmilar to what he did here. So, that makes me eyeball him more. Wilgy? I have no idea. He's Wilgy. 3J I don't suspect for this.

What do you think?

I think that the substance of your Epignosis suspicion is unclear. I see that you are suspicious of him, but I don't quite see why. Could you talk more about that?
I'm also not sure what to make of your speedchuck suspicion here. what is the relationship between Long Con's case against speedchuck, speedchuck's pressure of kyle, and speedchuck's involvement in this nutella bandwagon?

My suspicion of Epi is that he's going after players in a way that he does when he's bad, particularly when he's bad in a speed game--I've tried to explain it a few times now...not sure how to differently articulate my feelings.

Could you point to an example of him doing this on Day 2?

And my suspicion of speedchuck, based on his jumping on the LA bandwagon, coupled wit LC's case--which I read as, essentially, jumpting on the kyle bandwagon--show a pattern of behavior which I don't see as civ behavior. Does that make more sense?

I'm not sure. What is "unciv" about taking part in these particular bandwagons?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I was just reading FZ's ISO, and found myself developing a perspective:

My reads on FZ and Long Con are backwards. I don't think FZ is mafia and LC might be. I'm going to dig deeper and expand, just putting this out here now.

[Epignosis]

My suspicion of Epi is that he's going after players in a way that he does when he's bad, particularly when he's bad in a speed game--I've tried to explain it a few times now...not sure how to differently articulate my feelings.

I'm Epi, and I don't know what you're talking about.

You can name twelve different methods and accuse me of doing those things when I am bad and still be accurate.

Why aren't you lynching Sloonei today?

Too much new בּוּלְשִׁיט to process.

[speedchuck]

speedchuck, Dyslexicon read right now GO

GTH scum

[speedchuck]

Mac
Epi
LC

Wilgy

FZ
nutella
Kyle
daisy 2
JJJ

Marmot
Nova

Sloonei
Dizzy
LoRab

This is the readlist I posted earlier, now without color or reasons

Does this reflect your current feelings?

Pretty well, yeah

[JaggedJimmyJay]

speedchuck, Dyslexicon read right now GO

GTH scum

Has anything happened to your read on Dizzy over the last hour or so?

[speedchuck]

speedchuck, Dyslexicon read right now GO

GTH scum

Has anything happened to your read on Dizzy over the last hour or so?

I... felt worse about it? But it's still there. Weaker than it was. I can see everything she's saying from scum perspective.

[Sloonei]

Why do you scum read me, speedchuck?

[Kylemii]

Fam if you wouldn't mind I had a Kyle and long con team as a good possibility. Would you mind looking at their interactions and sharing with me your thoughts when you have a moment?

I did a brief search. They seemed to have a small flare up early in the game around the Day 0 Kyle nonsense, but after that they both seemed to quietly settled on town reads of each other with little visible movement in the thread. That's something I wouldn't mind talking about.
@Kylemii @Long Con, mind elaborating on how your early reads of one another developed?

I initially viewed his cropping of my post as being opportunistic and sneaky, I felt better when he apologized later I felt better about him, it seemed like a realistic mistake. Coming into day 2 I decided to press a tiny reset button in my brain. Many of my day 1 reads were poisoned by emotions and stress. LC's case he made coming into today gave me an impression of good. I've seen LC in many games and been disappointed by his lack of involvement. (not in a shame on you way but like in a, I wish LC would play more way] so seeing a case from him at all was a sign of proactiveness, indicative ofpositive vibes

Talk about your read of him at the point of this GTH list:

Spoiler: show

@Kylemii

GTH reads on every player please. I would appreciate it. You don't have to research them or think too hard. Just give me the gut takes. Copy the list here if you like:

Epi - good
Nutella - good
Wilgy - good
Daisy - bad
LC - good
Dyslexicon - good
FZ - bad
Speed - good
JJJ - good
Marmot - bad
Sloonei -bad
Lorab - good
Dave - ???
Novaselinenever - ???
Mac - good

The town read you're describing right now speaks to his Day 2 involvement, but you had him down as good prior to today as well.

I believe that was post-apology/clarification, I don't remember what specifically tipped him over to good.

[Epignosis]

speedchuck, Dyslexicon read right now GO

GTH scum

Has anything happened to your read on Dizzy over the last hour or so?

I... felt worse about it? But it's still there. Weaker than it was. I can see everything she's saying from scum perspective.

Yes, but what is your opinion about Daisy Rose?

Spoiler: show

[LoRab]

Well, we already know I'm suspicious of Epi. Looking at LC's post on speedchuck, his main point against him was that he jumped on the kylewagon and then didn't let go--which is simmilar to what he did here. So, that makes me eyeball him more. Wilgy? I have no idea. He's Wilgy. 3J I don't suspect for this.

What do you think?

I think that the substance of your Epignosis suspicion is unclear. I see that you are suspicious of him, but I don't quite see why. Could you talk more about that?
I'm also not sure what to make of your speedchuck suspicion here. what is the relationship between Long Con's case against speedchuck, speedchuck's pressure of kyle, and speedchuck's involvement in this nutella bandwagon?

My suspicion of Epi is that he's going after players in a way that he does when he's bad, particularly when he's bad in a speed game--I've tried to explain it a few times now...not sure how to differently articulate my feelings.

Could you point to an example of him doing this on Day 2?

And my suspicion of speedchuck, based on his jumping on the LA bandwagon, coupled wit LC's case--which I read as, essentially, jumpting on the kyle bandwagon--show a pattern of behavior which I don't see as civ behavior. Does that make more sense?

I'm not sure. What is "unciv" about taking part in these particular bandwagons?

I haven't seen him do it day 2, but not every player does the same things every day, so I'm not sure it makes a difference. At least not to me. And it's my suspicion, so I'm really the only one that it matters to. His day 1 behavior makes me suspicious of him. Nothing he has done day 2 makes me feel better about him. Does that make more sense?

And this post from day 1 is kind of the best summary of why I suspect Epi:

I'm sure Scum Epi would go after JJJ first. Because he's such an easy townie to lynch.

Have you met Epignosis?

Holy hell, that's basically what I'm accusing you of now.

That sort of joking arrogance--pointing out exactly what he's doing, but in a joking way and involving someone else, is what I have noticed him doing, particularly as a baddie (and not so much as a civie).

If my reasons for suspecting him don't resonate with you, that's ok. I'm not sure saying it in different words is going to change your mind about Epi. But, that's why I find him suspish.

As for speedchuck, it's not those particular bandwagons, but that he jumped on bandwagons in general. Come to think of it, he voted for Daisy, too. I see jumping on all the bandwagons as typically non-civ behavior, as it makes it easier to hide, and to vote for non-teammates without being obvious about it.

[Epignosis]

That was neither joking nor arrogance. That was bewilderment.

[Epignosis]

I wonder if I changed my avatar to a cat or a penguin would people stop assuming my posts are arrogant.

[Sloonei]

How do you read me, [mention]LoRab[/mention]?

[speedchuck]

Why do you scum read me, speedchuck?

"Sloonei - his turnabout on me is garbage. I can't read the "oh, if you play a better townie while mafia then you must be mafia" vote without having a spasmodic fit. That's one way to excuse and turn around a convenient townread you've been using. Bull friggin crap.
Different point:
Amusingly, Sloonei never actually tunneled on cBob when he was town in mountains. It was a constant suspicion, but I never saw him pursue it super hard.
Final point: I really think one of the main three is scum, and Sloonei is my top guess. I'm sorry if I'm wrong, Sloonbeard. You feel off, and that's the best argument I can give you. This readlist/thread review is taking all of my remaining time today. I'm probably just going to have to hope I don't die in MK mafia."

It's... not great if you still townread me. I don't know what to make of your treatment of my read there.

[LoRab]

How do you read me, @LoRab?

I don't have much of a read, tbh. My gut says civ.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don't think it's prudent with limited time remaining to compile a huge, thorough LC ISO -- I'm not even sure I can finish it in time. Cliff notes:

~ Epignosis and I were fiercely antagonistic with each other for nearly all of Day 1. We ate up a lot of thread content with that combat, and left all other observers scratching their heads trying to parse apart the motives. If there's anyone alive who should keenly understand what scenario and be able to provide insight on it, it's the other guy who has so frequently found himself in the same position against Epignosis.

What insight did he provide? Fuck all. He made a few isolated comments about it, but never anything of substance. To check yourself, click here and CTRL+F for Epi or 3J/Jay/JJJ

~ FZ. gave him crap for "asking clarification questions". LC's immediate response was to accuse her of inventing that notion. I don't see many avenues for that to be a neutral or better comment from LC to FZ -- it's a suspicion. This turned into a somewhat hostile exchange, and LC continues to assert that FZ is making shit up, or at least "making unfounded claims", and challenges her for proof. At no point does LC voice a clear read on FZ in light of this debate -- his commentary carries discrediting weight but does not probe his accuser to learn more about her (trendy new accusation ). This smells of CFTWR (caught for the wrong reasons).

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Vote Long Con.

[nutella]

Jay, move your vote to Sloonei.

[nutella]

Oh you just moved off Dizzy. K whatevs

[Sloonei]

Why do you scum read me, speedchuck?

"Sloonei - his turnabout on me is garbage. I can't read the "oh, if you play a better townie while mafia then you must be mafia" vote without having a spasmodic fit. That's one way to excuse and turn around a convenient townread you've been using. Bull friggin crap.
Different point:
Amusingly, Sloonei never actually tunneled on cBob when he was town in mountains. It was a constant suspicion, but I never saw him pursue it super hard.
Final point: I really think one of the main three is scum, and Sloonei is my top guess. I'm sorry if I'm wrong, Sloonbeard. You feel off, and that's the best argument I can give you. This readlist/thread review is taking all of my remaining time today. I'm probably just going to have to hope I don't die in MK mafia."

It's... not great if you still townread me. I don't know what to make of your treatment of my read there.

You've been a strong town read for a lot of the game. I began to question myself on that read. I've still felt good about you, but it's not a read upon which the game hinges. My mind is far from made up.
why does my "turnaround" bother you, and what does the Mountains anecdote mean to you in this game?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I wonder if I changed my avatar to a cat or a penguin would people stop assuming my posts are arrogant.

I don't think mine is doing me any favors either.

[Sloonei]

How do you read me, LoRab?

I don't have much of a read, tbh. My gut says civ.

why?
Do you have anything to say at all about Epi's play on Day 2?