Fiddler on the Roof Mafia

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay, move your vote to Sloonei.

Why? Give me abridged version.

[Sloonei]

I wonder if I changed my avatar to a cat or a penguin would people stop assuming my posts are arrogant.

I don't think mine is doing me any favors either.

I'm pretty sure mine does the trick.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

With limited time remaining, I'd appreciate some quick feedback on the LC gripes I just posted.

[speedchuck]

Nutella and Dizzy are insanely buddy-buddy
I could see a scum or 3P on either side of the LC JJJ thing.

[Sloonei]

nutella, move your vote to LoRab.

[LoRab]

How do you read me, LoRab?

I don't have much of a read, tbh. My gut says civ.

why?
Do you have anything to say at all about Epi's play on Day 2?

Like I said--it's gut. Gut, to me, says there isn't a real reason, just a general feeling.

I don't have much to say on Epi's play Day 2. It has felt fairly neutral to me.

[Sloonei]

How do you read me, LoRab?

I don't have much of a read, tbh. My gut says civ.

why?
Do you have anything to say at all about Epi's play on Day 2?

Like I said--it's gut. Gut, to me, says there isn't a real reason, just a general feeling.

I don't have much to say on Epi's play Day 2. It has felt fairly neutral to me.

Do you have any other reads to share?

[nutella]

Jay, move your vote to Sloonei.

Why? Give me abridged version.

I wanted you to move off Dizzy and Sloonei is my preferred lynch, though LC is fine too. I also wanted to see if you would do it (would have been a three-way tie including yourself anyway but now it's not so it doesn't work the same way) whatever LC is a fine choice

[Epignosis]

If Lorab is bad, she has a teammate in jeopardy. If she truly suspects me, why not put me further into the running to die?

[nutella]

nutella, move your vote to LoRab.

OK, sure. That's inconsequential anyway, but Lorab and LC are equally decent candidates in my view. But if anyone reconsiders and goes back to wanting to lynch Sloonei I'm coming right back.

[speedchuck]

Why do you scum read me, speedchuck?

"Sloonei - his turnabout on me is garbage. I can't read the "oh, if you play a better townie while mafia then you must be mafia" vote without having a spasmodic fit. That's one way to excuse and turn around a convenient townread you've been using. Bull friggin crap.
Different point:
Amusingly, Sloonei never actually tunneled on cBob when he was town in mountains. It was a constant suspicion, but I never saw him pursue it super hard.
Final point: I really think one of the main three is scum, and Sloonei is my top guess. I'm sorry if I'm wrong, Sloonbeard. You feel off, and that's the best argument I can give you. This readlist/thread review is taking all of my remaining time today. I'm probably just going to have to hope I don't die in MK mafia."

It's... not great if you still townread me. I don't know what to make of your treatment of my read there.

You've been a strong town read for a lot of the game. I began to question myself on that read. I've still felt good about you, but it's not a read upon which the game hinges. My mind is far from made up.
why does my "turnaround" bother you, and what does the Mountains anecdote mean to you in this game?

Your form of questioning yourself on the read, in one post, said:
"Speed says he plays a good town game if bad. He's playing a good town game. Therefore I'd better switch my read." If that was you being snarky, it's one thing. But at the time, I thought you were using my meta against me to enlarge a wagon, and it did NOT sit right. A reversal like that needed more to it. I'm confused on this point still ATM. No time to find the post, I've got LC to look at.
I was stating that your method of approaching Kyle near EOD1 was not the same as your approach to cBob, or really anyone I've seen. The fire that you put into that was something I'd expect from JJJ and not you. And even though you've gotten someone lynched before, you going after Kyle was distinctly different.

[Sloonei]

Jay, move your vote to Sloonei.

Why? Give me abridged version.

I wanted you to move off Dizzy and Sloonei is my preferred lynch, though LC is fine too. I also wanted to see if you would do it (would have been a three-way tie including yourself anyway but now it's not so it doesn't work the same way) whatever LC is a fine choice

Can you share any version of a case against me?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If Lorab is bad, she has a teammate in jeopardy. If she truly suspects me, why not put me further into the running to die?

I am troubled that she hasn't voted yet for anyone.

[Sloonei]

Actually no, [mention]nutella[/mention], I don't care about your read on me right now. It's negative and not budging until further notice. Talk to me about LoRab instead.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I need feedback soon, the day is nearing its end

[LoRab]

How do you read me, LoRab?

I don't have much of a read, tbh. My gut says civ.

why?
Do you have anything to say at all about Epi's play on Day 2?

Like I said--it's gut. Gut, to me, says there isn't a real reason, just a general feeling.

I don't have much to say on Epi's play Day 2. It has felt fairly neutral to me.

Do you have any other reads to share?

Not particularly. I have other players I feel are probably civ, but no reason to point them out. If I had other reads on players I think are bad, I'd have stated them by now.

Do you care to say why you think I'm bad, other than the fact that you disagree with the reasons I suspect people?

[Epignosis]

With limited time remaining, I'd appreciate some quick feedback on the LC gripes I just posted.

My only complaint with LC is a small one- that he was doing exactly what FZ. accused him of doing (answering for her). I noted this because I said to myself that I would have rather had FZ. answer for herself.

[Kylemii]

oh hey i have to vote in the next 29 minutes and the votes are all super close good thing i'm drunk and in a dark and loud room, aka the best circumstance to make decisions in

[LoRab]

there, I voted now.

The habit of waiting until the end to vote is strong.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

With limited time remaining, I'd appreciate some quick feedback on the LC gripes I just posted.

My only complaint with LC is a small one- that he was doing exactly what FZ. accused him of doing (answering for her). I noted this because I said to myself that I would have rather had FZ. answer for herself.

Has he done anything that gives you the opposite (civilian) impression?

[Epignosis]

there, I voted now.

The habit of waiting until the end to vote is strong.

That is the one thing I considered about you but didn't want to say it for you. Old habits.

[Sloonei]

Why do you scum read me, speedchuck?

"Sloonei - his turnabout on me is garbage. I can't read the "oh, if you play a better townie while mafia then you must be mafia" vote without having a spasmodic fit. That's one way to excuse and turn around a convenient townread you've been using. Bull friggin crap.
Different point:
Amusingly, Sloonei never actually tunneled on cBob when he was town in mountains. It was a constant suspicion, but I never saw him pursue it super hard.
Final point: I really think one of the main three is scum, and Sloonei is my top guess. I'm sorry if I'm wrong, Sloonbeard. You feel off, and that's the best argument I can give you. This readlist/thread review is taking all of my remaining time today. I'm probably just going to have to hope I don't die in MK mafia."

It's... not great if you still townread me. I don't know what to make of your treatment of my read there.

You've been a strong town read for a lot of the game. I began to question myself on that read. I've still felt good about you, but it's not a read upon which the game hinges. My mind is far from made up.
why does my "turnaround" bother you, and what does the Mountains anecdote mean to you in this game?

Your form of questioning yourself on the read, in one post, said:
"Speed says he plays a good town game if bad. He's playing a good town game. Therefore I'd better switch my read." If that was you being snarky, it's one thing. But at the time, I thought you were using my meta against me to enlarge a wagon, and it did NOT sit right. A reversal like that needed more to it. I'm confused on this point still ATM. No time to find the post, I've got LC to look at.
I was stating that your method of approaching Kyle near EOD1 was not the same as your approach to cBob, or really anyone I've seen. The fire that you put into that was something I'd expect from JJJ and not you. And even though you've gotten someone lynched before, you going after Kyle was distinctly different.

That initial comment was half in jest, though your scum meta is something that routinely bogs me down when I'm trying to read you. I was largely unaware that a wagon was forming on you at the time I said it. I was at work all day, and only loosely glancing down at the most recent posts in the thread. I responded to your comment in isolation.
As for the inspiration behind my "reversal", I had a rough Day 1. Day 2 sloonei dosn't trust the judgment of Day 1 Sloonei. I've reversed on a lot of things. Kyle is a town read right now, for instance.
Like I've said, the "fire" in my case against Kyle was less to do with conviction about Kyle being bad, and more about my general frustration with the direction of the thread at the time.

[Epignosis]

With limited time remaining, I'd appreciate some quick feedback on the LC gripes I just posted.

My only complaint with LC is a small one- that he was doing exactly what FZ. accused him of doing (answering for her). I noted this because I said to myself that I would have rather had FZ. answer for herself.

Has he done anything that gives you the opposite (civilian) impression?

He made that big ass case on speedchuck earlier today that you were enamored with.

[nutella]

Actually no, nutella, I don't care about your read on me right now. It's negative and not budging until further notice. Talk to me about LoRab instead.

Fake news. My read on you has fluctuated a fair amount in the last day. For most of this day phase I've chosen and stuck with the idea that you are more likely bad than Epi, but I'm not actually 100% on you despite appearances.

Lorab is a very waffley read for me right now but GTH bad.

[speedchuck]

I don't think it's prudent with limited time remaining to compile a huge, thorough LC ISO -- I'm not even sure I can finish it in time. Cliff notes:

~ Epignosis and I were fiercely antagonistic with each other for nearly all of Day 1. We ate up a lot of thread content with that combat, and left all other observers scratching their heads trying to parse apart the motives. If there's anyone alive who should keenly understand what scenario and be able to provide insight on it, it's the other guy who has so frequently found himself in the same position against Epignosis.

What insight did he provide? Fuck all. He made a few isolated comments about it, but never anything of substance. To check yourself, click here and CTRL+F for Epi or 3J/Jay/JJJ

~ FZ. gave him crap for "asking clarification questions". LC's immediate response was to accuse her of inventing that notion. I don't see many avenues for that to be a neutral or better comment from LC to FZ -- it's a suspicion. This turned into a somewhat hostile exchange, and LC continues to assert that FZ is making shit up, or at least "making unfounded claims", and challenges her for proof. At no point does LC voice a clear read on FZ in light of this debate -- his commentary carries discrediting weight but does not probe his accuser to learn more about her (trendy new accusation ). This smells of CFTWR (caught for the wrong reasons).

1. He said that this was Civ Epi, per usual. I'm not sure what else you were looking for. I think, by saying this, he implied a Civ!you as well.
2. This is exactly how he responds when Epi brings the same kind of suspicions against him, though he usually does go after Epi in response. If it is CFTWR, then that would explain why LC is hesitant to 'OMGUS' or whatever you want to call it.

I see your points, but they're not as damning as I'd like.

[Long Con]

Ok, hey hey, I'm still two pages back, but what's up?

[Long Con]

Why am I in the lead now? What's the case? I had to skip to the present or I'll just miss the lynch.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

He made that big ass case on speedchuck earlier today that you were enamored with.

Yeah I changed my mind on that. MacDougall suggested, fairly I think, that it wouldn't be out of character for mafia LC to shove thicker content into the thread as the climate worsens for him, and by that point a few people were reading him south-of-null.

[nutella]

Jay, I like your thoughts on LC. I'll vote for him. If you're wrong I'll lynch you next.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Why am I in the lead now? What's the case? I had to skip to the present or I'll just miss the lynch.

I can't speak for Mac or FZ. Here are my gripes.

[Spacedaisy]

I am super confused about whatever is going on with Dizzy right now... uh... sim is running behind and I'm trying to do both at once, it's not going well for my brain. Let me try and look back over this stuff.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay, I like your thoughts on LC. I'll vote for him. If you're wrong I'll lynch you next.

The fuck?

You like my thoughts and if they're wrong I'm dead? Your vote is your responsibility, not mine. "Disgusting"

[Long Con]

I don't think it's prudent with limited time remaining to compile a huge, thorough LC ISO -- I'm not even sure I can finish it in time. Cliff notes:

~ Epignosis and I were fiercely antagonistic with each other for nearly all of Day 1. We ate up a lot of thread content with that combat, and left all other observers scratching their heads trying to parse apart the motives. If there's anyone alive who should keenly understand what scenario and be able to provide insight on it, it's the other guy who has so frequently found himself in the same position against Epignosis.

What insight did he provide? Fuck all. He made a few isolated comments about it, but never anything of substance. To check yourself, click here and CTRL+F for Epi or 3J/Jay/JJJ

~ FZ. gave him crap for "asking clarification questions". LC's immediate response was to accuse her of inventing that notion. I don't see many avenues for that to be a neutral or better comment from LC to FZ -- it's a suspicion. This turned into a somewhat hostile exchange, and LC continues to assert that FZ is making shit up, or at least "making unfounded claims", and challenges her for proof. At no point does LC voice a clear read on FZ in light of this debate -- his commentary carries discrediting weight but does not probe his accuser to learn more about her (trendy new accusation ). This smells of CFTWR (caught for the wrong reasons).

1. He said that this was Civ Epi, per usual. I'm not sure what else you were looking for. I think, by saying this, he implied a Civ!you as well.
2. This is exactly how he responds when Epi brings the same kind of suspicions against him, though he usually does go after Epi in response. If it is CFTWR, then that would explain why LC is hesitant to 'OMGUS' or whatever you want to call it.

I see your points, but they're not as damning as I'd like.

FZ using bad logic to accuse me isn't the same as her having a bad role card.

[Sloonei]

How do you read me, LoRab?

I don't have much of a read, tbh. My gut says civ.

why?
Do you have anything to say at all about Epi's play on Day 2?

Like I said--it's gut. Gut, to me, says there isn't a real reason, just a general feeling.

I don't have much to say on Epi's play Day 2. It has felt fairly neutral to me.

Do you have any other reads to share?

Not particularly. I have other players I feel are probably civ, but no reason to point them out. If I had other reads on players I think are bad, I'd have stated them by now.

Do you care to say why you think I'm bad, other than the fact that you disagree with the reasons I suspect people?

when did I tell you whether or not I agree with your reasons for suspecting people?

I think you're bad because the reads you've shared with me right now have not felt very thorough or convincing. Your read of Epi, the strongest one you possess in the game, is based on something vague that you can't identify in anything he's done this day phase. Your case against speedchuck is that he moves his vote around too much in a game with changeable votes. You only offered a "gut" civ read on me when I pressed you for it. And the read which started off this suspicion, your read of nutella, is similarly week. we started by talking about how that bandwagon was suspicious, and you ended by saying that speedchuck's involvement was suspicious because it was suspicious, and that Epi is suspicious regardless of whether or not he was involved. You didn't offer a comment on Jay, just brushed him off. You gave an (understandable) shrug to wilgy.

It's been a long time since I played a game with you, but I remember the strong town LoRab from Mad Max. I don't see her here.

[Long Con]

Jay, I like your thoughts on LC. I'll vote for him. If you're wrong I'll lynch you next.

The fuck?

You like my thoughts and if they're wrong I'm dead? Your vote is your responsibility, not mine. "Disgusting"

What thoughts? I'm Civ, what is the case??

[nutella]

I could also go for a tie between Jay and LC. There are people I trust in both voter pools, and I've had so much trouble deciding whether I think people are bad or not that I'm cool with leaving it up to chance tbh.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

FZ using bad logic to accuse me isn't the same as her having a bad role card.

You didn't say she used bad logic. You said she invented arguments. That's very different. Moreover, you didn't explore her alignment, you just swatted her away.

[Sloonei]

Actually no, nutella, I don't care about your read on me right now. It's negative and not budging until further notice. Talk to me about LoRab instead.

Fake news. My read on you has fluctuated a fair amount in the last day. For most of this day phase I've chosen and stuck with the idea that you are more likely bad than Epi, but I'm not actually 100% on you despite appearances.

Lorab is a very waffley read for me right now but GTH bad.

Care to join me on the LoRab wagon?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay, I like your thoughts on LC. I'll vote for him. If you're wrong I'll lynch you next.

The fuck?

You like my thoughts and if they're wrong I'm dead? Your vote is your responsibility, not mine. "Disgusting"

What thoughts? I'm Civ, what is the case??

You just quoted a speedchuck post which featured my case in another quote.

[Sloonei]

@y'all: what do you think of LoRab right now?

[Kylemii]

I am also maybe toodrunk? If you have more than one vote tell me why I should or shouldnt vote for you please

[Epignosis]

I am super confused about whatever is going on with Dizzy right now... uh... sim is running behind and I'm trying to do both at once, it's not going well for my brain. Let me try and look back over this stuff.

Of all the things going on, you're jumping into this commenting on being confused about Dizzy?

You're voting alongside Dizzy.

This makes me think bad things about you despite your empowered return.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

@y'all: what do you think of LoRab right now?

Lukewarm suspicion. What's her biggest offense?

[nutella]

Actually no, nutella, I don't care about your read on me right now. It's negative and not budging until further notice. Talk to me about LoRab instead.

Fake news. My read on you has fluctuated a fair amount in the last day. For most of this day phase I've chosen and stuck with the idea that you are more likely bad than Epi, but I'm not actually 100% on you despite appearances.

Lorab is a very waffley read for me right now but GTH bad.

Care to join me on the LoRab wagon?

I was on it briefly when you asked me to. You snooze you lose.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay, I like your thoughts on LC. I'll vote for him. If you're wrong I'll lynch you next.

nutella, tell me about this nasty post.

[Spacedaisy]

I’m doing everything I possibly can to help you.

I think NVN would make a decent alternative if I wasn’t so occupied with persuing your lynch because your case on Epig was bad.

Last try. You, Speed and Epig should try figure out if I’m town or scum here. Good luck if you need it.

Theory: Dizzy has been forced to vote for me via the This Guy role and "a punishment of his choice".

Crap, if this is true then that really changes the landscape for my suspicions... shit.

Linki: Epi, I am reading alongside of playing an rpg and i keep seeing conversation about Dizzy but I was clearly not getting what was being said and just realized it, that is what I mean. See above.

[Spacedaisy]

Why is nutella on Jay now too?

[nutella]

I am super confused about whatever is going on with Dizzy right now... uh... sim is running behind and I'm trying to do both at once, it's not going well for my brain. Let me try and look back over this stuff.

Of all the things going on, you're jumping into this commenting on being confused about Dizzy?

You're voting alongside Dizzy.

This makes me think bad things about you despite your empowered return.

Perhaps Daisy is on the team that forced Dizzy to vote for Jay. If I decide to believe that I would move my vote off of Jay.

Guys I've changed my mind about 5704893 times today

[Kylemii]

I am also maybe toodrunk? If you have more than one vote tell me why I should or shouldnt vote for you please

not a joke

[mention]jaggedjimmyjag[/mention] [mention]Long Con[/mention] con [mention]Epignosis[/mention]

[Epignosis]

Linki: Epi, I am reading alongside of playing an rpg

What rpg?