Fiddler on the Roof Mafia

[MacDougall]

As it stands I will be voting Marmot at dawn and my vote will be staying there until such times as I see anything resembling a civilian in him.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

A comment about the dialogue between Mac and Spacedaisy:

I don't think most mafia members are inclined to make plays which they are later forced to point to in their own defense. Civilians are hardly ever receptive to "I wouldn't do X as mafia" arguments, even when they should be, and I'm not sure what mafia members would anticipate getting much of any credit from that methodology. Instead I think it's better to judge the accuracy of Daisy's assertion about how she voted and would have voted if evil:

If I was a team with Lorab why would I not just either bus her or cast a vote to save her? How does voting off accomplish anything?

I think this is a question of personality more than a question of utility. There is a reason a mafia member might do that: to be relieved of culpability in any discussion of either a save or a bus. Instead the attack must be "sidelined a vote", which could be perceived as a less inspired accusation and one which would be more easily evaded. However, I don't think everyone would be into that methodology -- I wouldn't. A more assertive mafia-aligned player is probably going to either save LoRab or bus LoRab, and I do think that Spacedaisy is the assertive sort.

I think her point is reasonable.

[Marmot]

Yes, because I was lynched early in each of my last two games and you contributed to both of them.

I did. Am I mafia in this game though?

I don't want to lynch you today, no. I disagree with Epignosis's posts leading up to the linked one, especially the part where he says that you talking will help expose your teammates more. This is true of any player, but I would gander it's less true of you than most players. Not that you wouldn't talk about your teammates, but that it'd be harder to for anyone to read those connections.

That, and if you're mafia, Epignosis must certainly acknowledge that you'd have a decent shot at talking your way out of a lynch later.

I'm much more interested in lynching him.

I'm a bit confused by this moment, Marmot. You didn't want to lynch me because you disagreed with Epi's rationale about when I should be lynched. What does that have to do with whether I am aligned with the mafia?

It didn't really matter to me whether you were aligned to mafia or not. It mattered to me what he thought.

If he was sincere in his belief that you were mafia, I didn't think it made sense for him to wait to lynch you.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Fair enough. If you could lynch any two players in the game right now who would they be?

You and somebody on the quieter side of things.

Epignosis is civilian. Jay is loud. Sloonei is the bee's knees.


Having not spent much time looking at the other players in the game, I'm not sure who else it would be. I still don't think nutella is mafia. I at one point thought Wilgy was civilian. I don't know if that still holds true. I am uncertain about the rest of the players.

Look man, either come at me with vigour and sell me that you are trying to win the game for the civ cause or point the finger at someone else and create another one of these live interactions that you require in order to scum hunt.

Jimmy does this not qualify as player salad?

It could probably qualify. You asked for two players to lynch and he provided you with five names -- none of whom were named as suspects or lynch options. It's babble.

[MacDougall]

A comment about the dialogue between Mac and Spacedaisy:

I don't think most mafia members are inclined to make plays which they are later forced to point to in their own defense. Civilians are hardly ever receptive to "I wouldn't do X as mafia" arguments, even when they should be, and I'm not sure what mafia members would anticipate getting much of any credit from that methodology. Instead I think it's better to judge the accuracy of Daisy's assertion about how she voted and would have voted if evil:

If I was a team with Lorab why would I not just either bus her or cast a vote to save her? How does voting off accomplish anything?

I think this is a question of personality more than a question of utility. There is a reason a mafia member might do that: to be relieved of culpability in any discussion of either a save or a bus. Instead the attack must be "sidelined a vote", which could be perceived as a less inspired accusation and one which would be more easily evaded. However, I don't think everyone would be into that methodology -- I wouldn't. A more assertive mafia-aligned player is probably going to either save LoRab or bus LoRab, and I do think that Spacedaisy is the assertive sort.

I think her point is reasonable.

If I was in that situation it would have to do with how present I was in the game. A sideline vote for me is the safe option. If I was able to remain present and build some authenticity around the action I would do as you say.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Marmot, why do you suspect MacDougall?

[Long Con]

You mentioned you have a mafia read on me because I appear to be playing a different game to everyone else. Does that mean you have a Mafia read on yourself given the lion's share of everyone else have a civ read of me?

Can you walk me through why I would make that jump in logic?

I thought it was obvious that I was having a go at you for being a hypocrite.

I was picking up what you're laying down.

Except for the part where it doesn't really matter to me what "everyone else" has to say about you. I never particularly cared for general consensus.

So we agree you are scum reading me for something you are exhibiting in this game? That is to say that you find your own behaviour scummy?

[DFaraday]

Night 2 - Dance-Off, Bro

Success! The first of our enemies has been struck down by the wrath of God, working through our beloved Rabbi. But there is still much work to be done. Still, it's not everyday a murderer gets put through a wall in Anatevka. There was only one place to celebrate - Mordcha's inn.

We celebrated with a round of drinks and (strictly male) dancing, to the delight of all present. Just then, the young Russian men who had been sitting at a nearby table rose and walked up to us. Within moments the dance battle ensued. It raged for who knows how long. We did not then know that a killer lurked among them, for after a particularly impressive sequence a knife flew from their group towards us.

"To life!" Speedchuck exclaimed as he went to take another drink. Just then the knife flew into his throat. We decided to call the dance battle a draw, for such things as murder can make it much harder to judge who won. We knew it would have been us anyway.

Speedchuck has been killed. It is now Day 3. You have 24 hours to lynch someone.

[DFaraday]

A message from Avram:

Hey nice job. I think it's worth looking into the possibility of that poll being a two-way tie between mafia partners. LoRab and LC both seemed to want to push for Epignosis and didn't offer much criticism of each other. It helps that I think everyone on that Long Con wagon is circumcised.

If there's time, the Daisy lynch train could also be revealing, but given the events of Day 2 we probably have better avenues to pursue this phase. It's probably more prudent to focus on yesterday's lynch and develop reads from there. Kyle and Long Con seem like good places to start. Novaselinenever is a wild card. Rule nobody out, but don't get caught up in paranoia. This is a good spot to be in.

[Long Con]

i never done

ah fuck

This is so fantastic. Shouldn't have been drinking on those English assignments, I'd say.

[Sloonei]

Voted Kyle. I'm back where I started.

[Long Con]

A message from Avram:
LoRab and LC both seemed to want to push for Epignosis and didn't offer much criticism of each other.

That isn't accurate. I never wanted to push for Epignosis, I voted him for maybe two minutes when I thought it was the best chance to save my life. I had said nothing about Lorab because she hadn't really gotten involved with the game that much, it wasn't some kind of teammate-avoidance strategy.

[Sloonei]

A message from Avram:
LoRab and LC both seemed to want to push for Epignosis and didn't offer much criticism of each other.

That isn't accurate. I never wanted to push for Epignosis, I voted him for maybe two minutes when I thought it was the best chance to save my life. I had said nothing about Lorab because she hadn't really gotten involved with the game that much, it wasn't some kind of teammate-avoidance strategy.

who should we lynch today?

[Kylemii]

space daisy iso, the main point against her here is that she didn't give a stance on lorab early on and later voted separate from either bandwagon to maintain a tie while having limited involvement in the final hours due to social obligations.. which are... basically the exact same things I'm being looked at for lol.

I find her defenses relatable for that reason. Her big defense post earlier was almost just a much better worded version of my own defenses. I understand why she might not have had a solid read on LR yet because I also didn't have one yet. I also buy that she would probably save a teammate lorab given the opportunity. Lorab is an OG Lostpedian and opportunities to play with her now are seemingly rare. I would be surprised if that wouldn't have influenced SD's choice last night in a scenario of choosing whether to spare a teammate or not.

gth gooddaisy

[Kylemii]

rip speedchuck

isoing locon next, then I guess marmot.

[Long Con]

A message from Avram:
LoRab and LC both seemed to want to push for Epignosis and didn't offer much criticism of each other.

That isn't accurate. I never wanted to push for Epignosis, I voted him for maybe two minutes when I thought it was the best chance to save my life. I had said nothing about Lorab because she hadn't really gotten involved with the game that much, it wasn't some kind of teammate-avoidance strategy.

who should we lynch today?

Why shouldn't it be Macdougall?

[Sloonei]

A message from Avram:
LoRab and LC both seemed to want to push for Epignosis and didn't offer much criticism of each other.

That isn't accurate. I never wanted to push for Epignosis, I voted him for maybe two minutes when I thought it was the best chance to save my life. I had said nothing about Lorab because she hadn't really gotten involved with the game that much, it wasn't some kind of teammate-avoidance strategy.

who should we lynch today?

Why shouldn't it be Macdougall?

why should it be Macdougall? I sense a lot of effort and focus coming from him this game. I don't want to lynch that player right now.

[Sloonei]

Town read on Daisy for her entrance to the thread tonight. Lesser town read on Marmot for his dialogue with Mac.

Speedchuck's death is a good look for Dyslexicon. She maintained a tinfoil suspicion on chuck (who played an excellent game, btw) through the night. I don't see any reason for a mafia Dizzy to push that angle at all in her nightwork.

Speedchuck's death is also a bad look for the people who pursued his lynch yesterday, I think. It suggests that he was a primary target for the scum team, and we know at least one of them (LoRab) sought to capitalize on a moment in which a case could be built against him for a lynch. How boldly the baddie team would pursue this strategy on Day 2 is the critical question in this theory.

[Long Con]

Well, right now it looks like he's shoehorning Marmot into lynch position for dubious reasons.

[Marmot]

A message from Avram:
LoRab and LC both seemed to want to push for Epignosis and didn't offer much criticism of each other.

That isn't accurate. I never wanted to push for Epignosis, I voted him for maybe two minutes when I thought it was the best chance to save my life. I had said nothing about Lorab because she hadn't really gotten involved with the game that much, it wasn't some kind of teammate-avoidance strategy.

who should we lynch today?

Why shouldn't it be Macdougall?

why should it be Macdougall? I sense a lot of effort and focus coming from him this game. I don't want to lynch that player right now.

A shitty lynch you say?

[Sloonei]

Well, right now it looks like he's shoehorning Marmot into lynch position for dubious reasons.

Do you read Marmot as town?

[Sloonei]

A shitty lynch you say?

I did not say those words, no.

[Sloonei]

Can anyone make an argument for Kyle to be town?

[Long Con]

Well, right now it looks like he's shoehorning Marmot into lynch position for dubious reasons.

Do you read Marmot as town?

GTH yes. I haven't been pinged by him. Lazy play, despite what Macdougall is saying, isn't much of a baddie tell for Marmot.

[Epignosis]

I still can't get over the wrong tab issue.

Lorab had three votes. So did you, Long Con.

Lorab had voted for me. Then you voted for me, making it a temporary three-way tie.

At no point did I have more than two votes, so the "wrong tab I was only saving myself" sounds like horseshit to me.

[Epignosis]

If you meant to save yourself and that was all, you would have gone with Lorab from the beginning.

[Sloonei]

New rainbow:
Epignosis
Macdougall
JaggedJimmyJay
nutella
Dyslexicon
FZ.
Spacedavey
Drwilgy
Marmot
novaselinenever
Kylemii
Long Con


No completely ready to say I've got a 3-person POE. The lowest tier of town reads have not done enough to be completely ruled out, and I could still tinfoil a case on a few of my darker greens, but I feel almost pretty good that the bottom three holds our remaining baddies. LoRab's post history reveals no clear trail back to any partners, but it does paint Epi in a very favorable light. I also think she may have been trying to buddy nutella a little bit.

[Kylemii]

long con did not mention lorab before his vote on her, cited as a vote to save himself

I think I'm gonna come back for marmot, I want to iso lorab first

[Sloonei]

Well, right now it looks like he's shoehorning Marmot into lynch position for dubious reasons.

Do you read Marmot as town?

GTH yes. I haven't been pinged by him. Lazy play, despite what Macdougall is saying, isn't much of a baddie tell for Marmot.

Can you tell me more about why Macdougall is scum? Is it based entirely on his recent treatment of the marmot?

[Kylemii]

Can anyone make an argument for Kyle to be town?

yes :/

[Sloonei]

Can anyone make an argument for Kyle to be town?

yes :/

Of the players you've ISO'd so far, who do you think is the most likely partner of LoRab?

[Long Con]

Well, right now it looks like he's shoehorning Marmot into lynch position for dubious reasons.

Do you read Marmot as town?

GTH yes. I haven't been pinged by him. Lazy play, despite what Macdougall is saying, isn't much of a baddie tell for Marmot.

Can you tell me more about why Macdougall is scum? Is it based entirely on his recent treatment of the marmot?

Actually, it is based on the recent stuff. I'm having some trouble with the two concurrent games running, and getting mixed up between them. This is something that currently looks suspicious.

[nutella]

RIP speed.

I like daisy's defense I think. Not liking Marmot, and still think LC and Kyle are also reasonably likely lorab teamies.

[Sloonei]

[mention]MacDougall[/mention], what do you say to LC's accusation that you're "dubiously shoehorning" Marmot into a lynch?

[Sloonei]

RIP speed.

I like daisy's defense I think. Not liking Marmot, and still think LC and Kyle are also reasonably likely lorab teamies.

what don't you like about marmot?

[Sloonei]

Well, right now it looks like he's shoehorning Marmot into lynch position for dubious reasons.

Do you read Marmot as town?

GTH yes. I haven't been pinged by him. Lazy play, despite what Macdougall is saying, isn't much of a baddie tell for Marmot.

Can you tell me more about why Macdougall is scum? Is it based entirely on his recent treatment of the marmot?

Actually, it is based on the recent stuff. I'm having some trouble with the two concurrent games running, and getting mixed up between them. This is something that currently looks suspicious.

why is "push Marmot" a viable scum strategy for Macdougall entering Day 3?

[Long Con]

I still can't get over the wrong tab issue.

Lorab had three votes. So did you, Long Con.

Lorab had voted for me. Then you voted for me, making it a temporary three-way tie.

At no point did I have more than two votes, so the "wrong tab I was only saving myself" sounds like horseshit to me.

I don't think I had more than two votes in the tab I voted in.

[Kylemii]

Lorab:

lorabs push against epi was too consistent to be distancing, I see where Sloonei is coming from in the comment about buddying Nutella, asks about the LC case, doesn't seem to do anything with it. speed is an unlikely partner as well, same reason as epi. I don't see Sloonei as a partner either. Lorab doesn't seem to discuss long con at all, even near the end of day when the lynch is down to the two of them

[Kylemii]

Can anyone make an argument for Kyle to be town?

yes :/

Of the players you've ISO'd so far, who do you think is the most likely partner of LoRab?

at this point, long con

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Well, right now it looks like he's shoehorning Marmot into lynch position for dubious reasons.

Are you shoehorning him to safety for dubious reasons?

[Epignosis]

I still can't get over the wrong tab issue.

Lorab had three votes. So did you, Long Con.

Lorab had voted for me. Then you voted for me, making it a temporary three-way tie.

At no point did I have more than two votes, so the "wrong tab I was only saving myself" sounds like horseshit to me.

I don't think I had more than two votes in the tab I voted in.

Irrelevant.

I never had more than two votes. You and Lorab did.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I still can't get over the wrong tab issue.

Lorab had three votes. So did you, Long Con.

Lorab had voted for me. Then you voted for me, making it a temporary three-way tie.

At no point did I have more than two votes, so the "wrong tab I was only saving myself" sounds like horseshit to me.

Agreed.

If you meant to save yourself and that was all, you would have gone with Lorab from the beginning.

Agreed.

[Long Con]

Well, right now it looks like he's shoehorning Marmot into lynch position for dubious reasons.

Do you read Marmot as town?

GTH yes. I haven't been pinged by him. Lazy play, despite what Macdougall is saying, isn't much of a baddie tell for Marmot.

Can you tell me more about why Macdougall is scum? Is it based entirely on his recent treatment of the marmot?

Actually, it is based on the recent stuff. I'm having some trouble with the two concurrent games running, and getting mixed up between them. This is something that currently looks suspicious.

why is "push Marmot" a viable scum strategy for Macdougall entering Day 3?

Attacking Marmot for lazy play, as if Marmot tends to be an overly-vocal, super-analytical player. Possibly ironic, because THAT looks like lazy play on Macdougall's part, going after Marmot for his extremely usual play.

[Long Con]

I still can't get over the wrong tab issue.

Lorab had three votes. So did you, Long Con.

Lorab had voted for me. Then you voted for me, making it a temporary three-way tie.

At no point did I have more than two votes, so the "wrong tab I was only saving myself" sounds like horseshit to me.

Agreed.

If you meant to save yourself and that was all, you would have gone with Lorab from the beginning.

Agreed.

This is so slimy. Just hop on board there, right?

[Sloonei]

Can anyone make an argument for Kyle to be town?

yes :/

Of the players you've ISO'd so far, who do you think is the most likely partner of LoRab?

at this point, long con

Tellmemore.gif

[Sloonei]

why is "push Marmot" a viable scum strategy for Macdougall entering Day 3?

Attacking Marmot for lazy play, as if Marmot tends to be an overly-vocal, super-analytical player. Possibly ironic, because THAT looks like lazy play on Macdougall's part, going after Marmot for his extremely usual play.

I'm not sure this answers my question, so I'll rephrase: why does it make sense for macdougall, as scum, to pick Marmot of all people as his lynch target for the day?

[Sloonei]

Lorab:

lorabs push against epi was too consistent to be distancing, I see where Sloonei is coming from in the comment about buddying Nutella, asks about the LC case, doesn't seem to do anything with it. speed is an unlikely partner as well, same reason as epi. I don't see Sloonei as a partner either. Lorab doesn't seem to discuss long con at all, even near the end of day when the lynch is down to the two of them

[Epignosis]

I say give Long Con some room.

Let him breathe. Let him talk.

I'll move my vote off him for now.

[Epignosis]

Long Con- do me a favor, will ya? And go find mafia.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

This is so slimy. Just hop on board there, right?

It should be evident by this point that I don't care about "hopping on board". I struggle to believe that your Epignosis vote was purely accidental. That was a three-way tie until LoRab moved.