[ENDGAME] - The Fellowship of the Ring Mafia (LoTR I)

[insertnamehere]

what if we just locked Epi, Rabbit, Mac, and a mannequin with Speed's face on it in a storage locker and let them battle it all out? They all seem really sure of themselves to the point where they seemingly are willing to ignore everyone else in the game.

right now I have no friggin' idea who in that group (bar Speed, who's a townread) is genuine and who's posturing.

[rabbit8]

what if we just locked Epi, Rabbit, Mac, and a mannequin with Speed's face on it in a storage locker and let them battle it all out? They all seem really sure of themselves to the point where they seemingly are willing to ignore everyone else in the game.

right now I have no friggin' idea who in that group (bar Speed, who's a townread) is genuine and who's posturing.

I ignore you because you're related to that scum DH.

[MacDougall]

what if we just locked Epi, Rabbit, Mac, and a mannequin with Speed's face on it in a storage locker and let them battle it all out? They all seem really sure of themselves to the point where they seemingly are willing to ignore everyone else in the game.

right now I have no friggin' idea who in that group (bar Speed, who's a townread) is genuine and who's posturing.

Player salad. Lynch him in the name of Jimmy.

[rabbit8]

I did however read your very long post, INH. I've read so many post today that it's all running together so I'm posting so raw thoughts.

[rabbit8]

what if we just locked Epi, Rabbit, Mac, and a mannequin with Speed's face on it in a storage locker and let them battle it all out? They all seem really sure of themselves to the point where they seemingly are willing to ignore everyone else in the game.

right now I have no friggin' idea who in that group (bar Speed, who's a townread) is genuine and who's posturing.

Player salad. Lynch him in the name of Jimmy.

By accusing 4 players?

[MacDougall]

what if we just locked Epi, Rabbit, Mac, and a mannequin with Speed's face on it in a storage locker and let them battle it all out? They all seem really sure of themselves to the point where they seemingly are willing to ignore everyone else in the game.

right now I have no friggin' idea who in that group (bar Speed, who's a townread) is genuine and who's posturing.

Player salad. Lynch him in the name of Jimmy.

By accusing 4 players?

Yeah why not? He's like HERE ARE 4 NAMES NOT ME TO FOCUS EFFORTS ON *retreats back into the shadows to prepare his next wall post to make himself look good*.

[MacDougall]

Don't make me screenshot my role PM.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I read Kyle's defense and INH's response and declare that INH has a longer johnson.

That is, I think Kyle is even more likely to be bad than before.

[rabbit8]

what if we just locked Epi, Rabbit, Mac, and a mannequin with Speed's face on it in a storage locker and let them battle it all out? They all seem really sure of themselves to the point where they seemingly are willing to ignore everyone else in the game.

right now I have no friggin' idea who in that group (bar Speed, who's a townread) is genuine and who's posturing.

Player salad. Lynch him in the name of Jimmy.

By accusing 4 players?

Yeah why not? He's like HERE ARE 4 NAMES NOT ME TO FOCUS EFFORTS ON *retreats back into the shadows to prepare his next wall post to make himself look good*.

Was INH is some sort of trouble in the thread I was unaware of? Why would he need to hide. He's just posted a few very good posts.

[MacDougall]

Because Mafia like to hide?

[MacDougall]

ESPECIALLY when they AREN'T in trouble.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Mac jumping on a player I strongly townread is NAI for Mac. If he's town, whatever. If he's scum, it's just WIFOM with Kyle. Don't really care. Doesn't hurt either him or INH.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Gimmie some more of your rawness, Rabbit.

[rabbit8]

What? How is he hiding though?

[MacDougall]

Mac jumping on a player I strongly townread is NAI for Mac. If he's town, whatever. If he's scum, it's just WIFOM with Kyle. Don't really care. Doesn't hurt either him or INH.

[MacDougall]

Speedchuck
DFaraday
DrWilgy
Timmer

Scum legacy.

[rabbit8]

Speedchuck
DFaraday
DrWilgy
Timmer

Scum legacy.

I don't know, guy. I'm thinking I might switch my vote from you to Kyle? What do you think of that?

[insertnamehere]

what if we just locked Epi, Rabbit, Mac, and a mannequin with Speed's face on it in a storage locker and let them battle it all out? They all seem really sure of themselves to the point where they seemingly are willing to ignore everyone else in the game.

right now I have no friggin' idea who in that group (bar Speed, who's a townread) is genuine and who's posturing.

Player salad. Lynch him in the name of Jimmy.

By accusing 4 players?

Yeah why not? He's like HERE ARE 4 NAMES NOT ME TO FOCUS EFFORTS ON *retreats back into the shadows to prepare his next wall post to make himself look good*.

[rabbit8]

What? How is he hiding though?

Don't make me @ you......

[speedchuck]

Mac, are you wanting to lynch me because Sloonei or because I'm me?

[insertnamehere]

what if we just locked Epi, Rabbit, Mac, and a mannequin with Speed's face on it in a storage locker and let them battle it all out? They all seem really sure of themselves to the point where they seemingly are willing to ignore everyone else in the game.

right now I have no friggin' idea who in that group (bar Speed, who's a townread) is genuine and who's posturing.

I ignore you because you're related to that scum DH.

wait does he think i'm aces

[insertnamehere]

what if we just locked Epi, Rabbit, Mac, and a mannequin with Speed's face on it in a storage locker and let them battle it all out? They all seem really sure of themselves to the point where they seemingly are willing to ignore everyone else in the game.

right now I have no friggin' idea who in that group (bar Speed, who's a townread) is genuine and who's posturing.

A strong possibility is that you're all a bunch of posturing civilians.

[MacDougall]

Mac, are you wanting to lynch me because Sloonei or because I'm me?

Sloonei

[MacDougall]

what if we just locked Epi, Rabbit, Mac, and a mannequin with Speed's face on it in a storage locker and let them battle it all out? They all seem really sure of themselves to the point where they seemingly are willing to ignore everyone else in the game.

right now I have no friggin' idea who in that group (bar Speed, who's a townread) is genuine and who's posturing.

A strong possibility is that you're all a bunch of posturing civilians.

I'm pretty sure that's the case except for Speed is Mafia. Hence the legacy list.

[rabbit8]

what if we just locked Epi, Rabbit, Mac, and a mannequin with Speed's face on it in a storage locker and let them battle it all out? They all seem really sure of themselves to the point where they seemingly are willing to ignore everyone else in the game.

right now I have no friggin' idea who in that group (bar Speed, who's a townread) is genuine and who's posturing.

I ignore you because you're related to that scum DH.

wait does he think i'm aces

No, but you remind me of him so fucking much when you play. And I hate [mention]DharmaHelper[/mention] so much I wanted to get him to react......

[rabbit8]

I mayormaynot have forgotten how the @ thing worked in the last post I thought he would see....

[MacDougall]

Speedchuck
DFaraday
DrWilgy
Timmer

Scum legacy.

I don't know, guy. I'm thinking I might switch my vote from you to Kyle? What do you think of that?

Well given my knowledge of the situation that would be a better decision than lynching me which has a zero chance of netting scum. At least that is greater than zero. I'd prefer to lynch Speedchuck though. If he flips scum, Sloonei left some great breadcrumbs. If he flips civ, oh well.

[MacDougall]

what if we just locked Epi, Rabbit, Mac, and a mannequin with Speed's face on it in a storage locker and let them battle it all out? They all seem really sure of themselves to the point where they seemingly are willing to ignore everyone else in the game.

right now I have no friggin' idea who in that group (bar Speed, who's a townread) is genuine and who's posturing.

I ignore you because you're related to that scum DH.

wait does he think i'm aces

No, but you remind me of him so fucking much when you play. And I hate @DharmaHelper so much I wanted to get him to react......

All three of you remind me of each other tbh.

[rabbit8]

Speedchuck
DFaraday
DrWilgy
Timmer

Scum legacy.

I don't know, guy. I'm thinking I might switch my vote from you to Kyle? What do you think of that?

Well given my knowledge of the situation that would be a better decision than lynching me which has a zero chance of netting scum. At least that is greater than zero. I'd prefer to lynch Speedchuck though. If he flips scum, Sloonei left some great breadcrumbs. If he flips civ, oh well.

Did I miss your reason for speedchuck?

[rabbit8]

what if we just locked Epi, Rabbit, Mac, and a mannequin with Speed's face on it in a storage locker and let them battle it all out? They all seem really sure of themselves to the point where they seemingly are willing to ignore everyone else in the game.

right now I have no friggin' idea who in that group (bar Speed, who's a townread) is genuine and who's posturing.

I ignore you because you're related to that scum DH.

wait does he think i'm aces

No, but you remind me of him so fucking much when you play. And I hate @DharmaHelper so much I wanted to get him to react......

All three of you remind me of each other tbh.

You remind me of a younger more volatile me, so, fuck you too.

[MacDougall]

Speedchuck
DFaraday
DrWilgy
Timmer

Scum legacy.

I don't know, guy. I'm thinking I might switch my vote from you to Kyle? What do you think of that?

Well given my knowledge of the situation that would be a better decision than lynching me which has a zero chance of netting scum. At least that is greater than zero. I'd prefer to lynch Speedchuck though. If he flips scum, Sloonei left some great breadcrumbs. If he flips civ, oh well.

Did I miss your reason for speedchuck?

Speedchuck is Sloonei's replacement.

[MacDougall]

what if we just locked Epi, Rabbit, Mac, and a mannequin with Speed's face on it in a storage locker and let them battle it all out? They all seem really sure of themselves to the point where they seemingly are willing to ignore everyone else in the game.

right now I have no friggin' idea who in that group (bar Speed, who's a townread) is genuine and who's posturing.

I ignore you because you're related to that scum DH.

wait does he think i'm aces

No, but you remind me of him so fucking much when you play. And I hate @DharmaHelper so much I wanted to get him to react......

All three of you remind me of each other tbh.

You remind me of a younger more volatile me, so, fuck you too.

I'm 31 wbu?

[rabbit8]

Fuck me, I did forget that Speed was Sloo. Hum..... I'll give you that.

Age is but a number.

[MacDougall]

Wow you're old

[speedchuck]

[mention]MacDougall[/mention] Why are you panicking and giving legacy reads? We got 23 hours, and less than half the game is voting. I've barely even read the game, and I can think of like, 4 people I'd rather lynch than you right now.

[MacDougall]

@MacDougall Why are you panicking and giving legacy reads? We got 23 hours, and less than half the game is voting. I've barely even read the game, and I can think of like, 4 people I'd rather lynch than you right now.

I'm not panicking I just had a coffee.

[speedchuck]

@MacDougall Why are you panicking and giving legacy reads? We got 23 hours, and less than half the game is voting. I've barely even read the game, and I can think of like, 4 people I'd rather lynch than you right now.

I'm not panicking I just had a coffee.

K then why give legacies.

Also there are 4 of them

[MacDougall]

@MacDougall Why are you panicking and giving legacy reads? We got 23 hours, and less than half the game is voting. I've barely even read the game, and I can think of like, 4 people I'd rather lynch than you right now.

I'm not panicking I just had a coffee.

K then why give legacies.

Also there are 4 of them

I dunno I just said legacy. I was just trying to imply that I had a random epiphany that I think all the players that are posting around about now are all comfortable and reading sincere so I sort of realised that I think that the scum are in that pile I wrote.

Also have you ever had Epignosis scum read you when you're a civ? It's not cool.

[speedchuck]

Also have you ever had Epignosis scum read you when you're a civ? It's not cool.

I don't recall that ever happening. Epi is good at reading me.

[Kylemii]

please show me where I called Ambray suspicious? I didn't like her Glorf vote, but I accepted her reasoning.

okay so then you've only had one suspect. is that supposed to be an improvement? I looked through your posts the only players you ever mentioned were me and sofi.

Meanwhile, you used it as an excuse to prop her up for an easy lynch, despite also targeting Glorf yourself.

no?? ambray voted glorfindel without knowing any of the context. and my vote for her was a vote for not Mac who I thought was more likely civ. what are you even talking about

[Kylemii]

Spoiler: show

Oh goodie. It's been a while since I've gotten into a wall-post-based battle with a player I suspect that's more or less an irrelevant genitalia measuring contest because no one ever reads these damn wall-posts, unless they themselves are mentioned or accused in them.

Kyle responded to these posts by explaining what "pressure votes" are, not realizing that my problem with him was that all of his "pressure votes" were directed at easy, low-posting targets which allowed him to float through the thread without having solid, objectionable opinions.

this is wrong. my pressure was placed where it could do something. glorfindel was pressured to gauge a reaction, sofi was pressured because I wanted to hear an explanation for her vote. I put pressure votes on players I wanted to verify things about, saying they were just quiet players is false.

Once again, you keep willfully ignoring the crux of my argument, continually making me out to not understand basic concepts that I'm actually accusing you of not using in a pro-civilian way. Yes, I know that you were ostensibly voting for these people in order for in-thread "pressure" reasons. I just think that the justification for these "pressure votes" is weaksauce and unfortunately your "pressure votes" have the consequence of counting as actual votes, meaning that you could have an easy-ass justification for a vote and eventual lynch of un-controversial players who won't publicly drag you through the mud.

Accused me of tunnelling.

you are.

nice attempt at discrediting me

He then went after Jack, who was targeting him earlier in the thread, ostensibly because he wasn't stopping posting in emojis.

you seem to think the only reason anyone should ever make negative comments about each other is to try and get the other person lynched. That's not how I play. The first step to any suspicion is questioning that player and trying to figure out their motivation for doing the things they've done. That's what I did with Jack and it's also why I started to feel better about him. None of that could have been accomplished without the push.

You called him your main scumread. I interpreted that as fact, and not some weird psy-op strategy that none of us, except Jack, was supposed to take seriously. You really seem to enjoy shirking culpability for your own opinions and stances.

My thoughts on people with self-imposed posting limitations are already well established:

Everyone say it with me.

"SELF-IMPOSED POSTING RESTRICTIONS ARE NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENT."

Been down this road too many damn times.

that's irrelevant. obviously choosing to do a posting thing isn't necessarily alignment indicative. that doesn't mean any player who does a posting thing doesn't have an alignment and shouldn't ever be questioned.

your only argument was that CIV JACK WOULD HAVE DROPPED THE GIMMICK BY THIS POINT, which is nonsense. But I suppose that's irrelevant since when you say that you scumread someone, we're all supposed to realize that you don't really scumread them, and that this is an elite questioning strategy to extract...nothing from Jack. You got nothing from Jack. Literally all he did to get you to stop "worrying" about him was stopping posting in emojis.

so i guess what i want is.... cases. clear opinions. the real stuff. jack is a strong player so i want to see strong play, even if he's doing it via pictures of dogs and human faces.

...says the guy who hasn't given a single strong case or clear opinion.

I've been doing plenty of work, you've just been dismissing it all as opportunistic :/ I don't tend to make accusations and big cases in the early game, inh. that's not how i play. I ask questions and gauge responses cus it's what I'm good at. Other people do what they're good at and it creates a well functioning machine that mafias. jack is an actual good mafia player so ofc I expect more from him.

I'm not arguing with your patented method of question-asking and response-gauging. Sloonei did a shitton of that, and he was a townread for me. I think that I'm dealing with the evil, scummy version of Kyle that does the same amount of inquisitive behavior, but without really doing anything with it. I'm simply not happy with the results you've gotten from your methods, which makes me think you're using them nefariously.

After Jack breaks his emoji-posting pattern, and writes in, y'know, words, Kyle immediately posts this:

i am no longer worried about jack

This continues Kyle's trend of backtracking on any original in-thread stances whenever he gets a whiff of backlash.

"kyle changes his mind about things sometimes when confronted with new data so obviously he's bad" :/

first of all that's overly simplified, I didn't say that about jack because he posted without emojis, I said it because I believed in his response. it made sense as an explanation and jived with something Jack had said previously

the entire point of questioning someone is to figure out where someone stands. you're acting like asking people questions and then ending up not wanting them dead is somehow wrong

You called him your top scumread because he posted in emojis, (and also happened to coincidentally suspect you, but let's ignore that) and then did a 180 when he broke the gimmick and posted in words. Oh wait, no, it's apparently because he mentioned the phrase "tone words," and his response just feels "really genuine."

Not really seeing the startlingly relevant data that causes you to make him a non-scumread, and that justifiied your extensive, advanced interrogation techniques.

Kyle's reaction to the Ambray Vs. Mac Day 2 kerfuffle was, predictably a bunch of waffling.

He sure did ask a bunch of questions, which I guess is supposedly civilian-type behavior.

It's absolutely average Kyle-typebehavior. Read any game I've played recently and you'll see the same thing. If I don't understand something I'm going to ask questions until I have the baseline of knowledge required to figure things out for myself. If you want a link to one I can provide but you can probably just click on any of the more recent games from the last 5 months and see what I mean.

The fact that you yourself identify this as your prototypical town behavior means that you'd consciously choose to do the same damn thing if you were scum, except less productive and genuine. I believe the following questions are examples of this malevolent, outwardly-inquisitive Kyle.

This may be what Kyle refers to as my prospensity for "tunnelling," but these questions all seem like Kyle looking for someone to tell him what to think, and who to vote for, instead of actual case-building.

kind of telling actually? is that how you believe mafia should be played? 20 players make cases on their own in 20 lonely vacuums without input and ignore cases made by the other players?

You weren't building any opinion of your own, or defining your own viewpoint in any way. You were just continually asking somewhat asinine questions in what looked like a facile attempt to seem active and invested, despite not really caring and knowing that a civ would be lynched either way.

It also feels like he's trying desperately to sell other players on Ambray and Mac being the two lynch leaders, forcing attention off of other possible candidates. Despite claiming to have ISO'd both candidates, and asking so many questions, Kyle doesn't actually post a clear stance or opinion against either of them until after the vote ended, and after he pulled a literal last minute vote against Ambray.

I didn't have a clear stance, that's why I was asking so many questions basically up until the end of the phase. I don't make rash decisions. If I don't feel properly informed on a topic then I work to fix that.

You never once vocalized your thought process or why you decided to vote Sofi outside of basic-sounding fluff like the below quote from after EOD. You claim to have been carefully assembling info to build an informed, cogent viewpoint, but instead your Sofi vote feels like a half-hearted excuse.

I voted sofi. I think the case against her is good enough and I think she's more likely to flip bad than mac

For all the shit he gave Jack for posting emojis, Kyle's vote-justification is merely the text equivalent of this:

yeah? the only votes that mattered at that point were sofi and mac so i voted sofi, cus i thought Mac was more likely to be civ.

Missing in this last minute vote justification: any actual reasons why sofi is more likely to be scum and Mac is more likely to be civ.

I would prefer if you'd actually quote things individually instead of inserting text and recoloring it this is going to be a nightmare to respond to

[Jackofhearts2005]

Just pick a different color.

[Kylemii]

Once again, you keep willfully ignoring the crux of my argument, continually making me out to not understand basic concepts that I'm actually accusing you of not using in a pro-civilian way. Yes, I know that you were ostensibly voting for these people in order for in-thread "pressure" reasons. I just think that the justification for these "pressure votes" is weaksauce and unfortunately your "pressure votes" have the consequence of counting as actual votes, meaning that you could have an easy-ass justification for a vote and eventual lynch of un-controversial players who won't publicly drag you through the mud.

first of all... there's no such thing as weak justification for pressure. everyone who isn't an obvious townread or an obvious scum-read needs to be put under pressured so they can exhibit behavior which can be read and analyzed. that's the entire point of this game.

You called him your main scumread.I interpreted that as fact, and not some weird psy-op strategy that none of us, except Jack, was supposed to take seriously. You really seem to enjoy shirking culpability for your own opinions and stances.

I absolutely did not??? I said I was concerned about him. I took steps to figure him out more. I didn't say "scumread". scumread implies completeness. Jack was in process.

your only argument was that CIV JACK WOULD HAVE DROPPED THE GIMMICK BY THIS POINT, which is nonsense. But I suppose that's irrelevant since when you say that you scumread someone, we're all supposed to realize that you don't really scumread them, and that this is an elite questioning strategy to extract...nothing from Jack. You got nothing from Jack. Literally all he did to get you to stop "worrying" about him was stopping posting in emojis.

yeah... its nonsense cus that was never even what my argument was in the first place. my argument was that Jack needed to be held accountable for his level of participation and his influence on the thread, despite his self imposed challenge, and I didn't get nothing from jack I got an explanation for why he chose to do it that satisfied my worries about him.

You weren't building any opinion of your own, or defining your own viewpoint in any way. You were just continually asking somewhat asinine questions in what looked like a facile attempt to seem active and invested, despite not really caring and knowing that a civ would be lynched either way.

again please do your homework and go read any game i've ever played? thanks.

You never once vocalized your thought process or why you decided to vote Sofi outside of basic-sounding fluff like the below quote from after EOD. You claim to have been carefully assembling info to build an informed, cogent viewpoint, but instead your Sofi vote feels like a half-hearted excuse.

there wasn't time for a thought process. Mac and Sofi weren't my suspects, but one of them was going to be lynched. I needed to find out why they were in the positions they were in and decide if I agreed that one of them deserved to be there more than the other. that's how voting works.

Missing in this last minute vote justification: any actual reasons why sofi is more likely to be scum and Mac is more likely to be civ.

I really don't know why this is a point you're bringing against me when you voted for me and stayed out of effecting lynches that weere actually probable

[Kylemii]

Just pick a different color.

no way gross

[DharmaHelper]

what if we just locked Epi, Rabbit, Mac, and a mannequin with Speed's face on it in a storage locker and let them battle it all out? They all seem really sure of themselves to the point where they seemingly are willing to ignore everyone else in the game.

right now I have no friggin' idea who in that group (bar Speed, who's a townread) is genuine and who's posturing.

I ignore you because you're related to that scum DH.

wait does he think i'm aces

No, but you remind me of him so fucking much when you play. And I hate @DharmaHelper so much I wanted to get him to react......

I'll fight you in the street you old fucker

[timmer]

Sorry I just didn't expect to have to contend with it and I was balls deep in Buffy at the time.

Mmm.

Just starting to catch up here, and



Can't say I blame you.

[timmer]

Okay, so I'm feeling civvie vibes from INH, but I'm not sure his case on Kyle is as slam dunk as he seems to think. I'm reading those posts of Kyle's and I feel like I've played with that exact "someone help me" tone many times as a civ... I feel like Long Con has gone stone cold in this game, and that doesn't feel civvie of him. Mac still baffles me. I'm not sure that this woe is me too many games maybe just kill me schtick fits him, but that doesn't necessarily indicate alignment. I really don't think that Wilgy's one contribution to the game was a flippant "oh Ambray wasn't bad". At one point do we demand content from him? I forget.

[MacDougall]

Woe is me too many games just kill me

[MacDougall]

There now I've said what you accused me of so you're not misrepresenting me anymore

[timmer]

At any rate if I am going to be a continual suspect for my poor play you might as well get me out of the way early.

You are right I'm totally misrepresenting the kinds of things you've been saying.