Buffy the Vampire Slayer: At the Hellmouth (End Game)

[S~V~S]

I did read them, and I think you are wrong. Too much wifom in your reasoning, especially if one of them is the SK.

I don't think "would have" is something that can be applied with any degree of certainly with LoRab and especially with Mac.

And if you think THAT was crass, you don't know me very well. I can trigger a work cuss filter maybe even better than Rabbit I am just frustrated at how drive by this game has been. More so with sig than you maybe~ have you read his suspect lists? I would like the civvies to win this game, but meh. If you are so sure Mac and LoRab are not bad, and you made posts and stuff about it, who am I to correct you?

[S~V~S]

Well, one of the two is the SK.

Looking back, I don't think LoRab would have NKed Juliets. So imma waffle and move my vote to Lorab. One of them is bad, and one is the SK.

[speedchuck]

If you are so sure Mac and LoRab are not bad, and you made posts and stuff about it, who am I to correct you?

You don't have to agree with me. I just want you to address it. Why do you think that Mac/LoRab led the lynch on Illy, in the case that they are scum? (Individually, I mean.)

I'm rereading you. Think I've narrowed some things down. For one, if you're Glory, I will buy and eat a hat.
But secondly, I saw something that has me itching to move my vote.

Gimme a bit to think.

And yeah, Mac could totally be Glory.

[speedchuck]

You seem awfully certain...

[S~V~S]

POE

You are not bad, I do not think sig or Tranq is bad (especially with Lapluie dying and not ending the vamps).

So Mac and Lorab.

[speedchuck]

I do not think sig or Tranq is bad (especially with Lapluie dying and not ending the vamps).

How did you come to this conclusion? I POE'd right off to the opposite conclusion. (Vamp-wise, I mean. Glory could be anyone whatever.)

[S~V~S]

I think sig is fairly open. As for Tranq, on Day two, he came in and talked me down from my Lapluie suspicion from Day one. I presumed he had info or something, and that was why I backed off Lapluie. Lapluie flipping civ (I assume since he did not end the Vamps) reinforces that for me.

[S~V~S]

What I am talking about starts here:

SVS, are you still looking at lapluie because she doesn't have any thoughts yet? What do you think of her reply to your question?

Any thoughts about the game lapluie?

nothing really so drastic or anything of use to say other than I'm just observing everyone & everything that has been coming up, having neutral vibes off so far, as I cannot read players well given that I don't know many of you yet, so yep.

[speedchuck]

Okay, I see that.

...

Wanna lynch Sig?

[MacDougall]

I think we need to be careful about splitting votes in case Angelus is the last vamp.

[speedchuck]

I think we need to be careful about splitting votes in case Angelus is the last vamp.

Very true.

But with 2 votes, it does not matter.

[S~V~S]

Mac, what do you say?

@ Chuck, I feel pretty good about sig, tbh.

Gotta go walk the dog, the rain finally stopped, and she is restless.

[speedchuck]

[mention]S~V~S[/mention], you seem to be POE-ing. You've got me, Tranq, and yourself picked out as certain roles.

Oz exists. Who would your pick for Oz be? (don't answer this out loud necessarily. I just want you to make sure you have everything placed.)

[MacDougall]

I think we need to be careful about splitting votes in case Angelus is the last vamp.

Very true.

But with 2 votes, it does not matter.

What do you mean?

[speedchuck]

I think we need to be careful about splitting votes in case Angelus is the last vamp.

Very true.

But with 2 votes, it does not matter.

What do you mean?

There are only 2 votes on the board. Spread or no spread, doesn't matter if we only have two votes. I'm inviting you to get in here.

[MacDougall]

It seems like tranq is cleared by info or something? Why is he not being discussed?

I'm voting for Lorab for now. But whoever we vote for needs to be unanimous or close to.

[speedchuck]

It seems like tranq is cleared by info or something? Why is he not being discussed?

I don't think he's cleared by info

[MacDougall]

I think we need to be careful about splitting votes in case Angelus is the last vamp.

Very true.

But with 2 votes, it does not matter.

What do you mean?

There are only 2 votes on the board. Spread or no spread, doesn't matter if we only have two votes. I'm inviting you to get in here.

Yeah I am just saying that by eod it has to be not close. I think sig is civ. He ha shown a civ mind towards his reads throughout the game.

[speedchuck]

I think sig is civ. He ha shown a civ mind towards his reads throughout the game.

I read everyone currently in the game as civ.

[speedchuck]

[mention]MacDougall[/mention] You didn't vote.

[S~V~S]

@S~V~S, you seem to be POE-ing. You've got me, Tranq, and yourself picked out as certain roles.

Oz exists. Who would your pick for Oz be? (don't answer this out loud necessarily. I just want you to make sure you have everything placed.)

I am well aware

And Tranq is cleared for *me*, I have played with him for years, and I can't imagine the circumstances where bad Tranq would have that discussion with me, even if he did not have an info role (since he is not a person who dumps info).

[speedchuck]

Fine. I'll clear SVS (bosed on something I realized and hope is true) and Tranq.

That leaves Sig, Mac, and LoRab. I have a headache.

[MacDougall]

There seem to be good reasons to civ read everybody but Lorab. Has to be her.

[speedchuck]

Tranq: Nice analysis.

Also, the night 1 post reads like recruitment, since Spike is with Angelus. Could be story telling, yes, but also makes sense of the hosts vaguely letting us know what's happening.

Masterful Ploy

"Oi!" cried Spike from the cave entrance. "Where's the blue-glowy-wall thing gone? I grabbed this bloke 'cause he received blood Buffy donated, and-"

"Too late, Spike!" taunted Angelus. "And it's a moot point anyway, since The Master is no longer taking house calls."

Spike looked down at a terrified Marmot. "Bloody hell. Don't need you any more then, do I?" And with that, he snapped Marmot's neck.

[/color][/b]

Of the interactions you name, I'm most concerned with Illy in general. My gut is reading her as bad. It's pure gut and meta, but she doesn't sound like civ illy. Especially the way she talks about the neutrals. It's almost like she is more suspicious of the than the Mafia--Glory as top concern makes sense, but the Mayor is her next top concern? Shouldn't the mafia be more concerning? (I could also see her as either the mayor or glory, for that matter, but I'm thinking vamp)

LoRab, I had you as like a top townread except for the role fishing, which wouldn't even be as bad if you hadn't denied it. But for today, I'm willing to chalk that up to "different backgrounds" (My background is closed setups with lots of role crap, and role fishing [in other words trying to get someone to talk directly about their role or what their role is not] was considered bad bad bad) because we share a common top scumread. Let's talk about that.

You read Illyria as scum for meta, gut, and a few posts. I've been reading her as scum because of tone and interactions, having never played a game with her before.

We arrived at the same conclusion for different, but complementary reasons. And I find that to be a good reason to vote.

This is why I was reading LoRab as town. This is how the Illy lynch started.

[sig]

Maybe I'm mistaken but wasn't Mac the first or second vote on Illy?

[sig]

Okay, I see that.

...

Wanna lynch Sig?

Where did this come from?

[sig]

Okay, I see that.

...

Wanna lynch Sig?

Where did this come from?

[MacDougall]

I dunno. She said she was reading her mafia as pure gut and meta but then gave thread based reasons. That looks like distancing gone wrong.

[speedchuck]

Maybe I'm mistaken but wasn't Mac the first or second vote on Illy?

He may have been.

He had a post further up on the page saying "I smell scum" on Illy. Very strongly worded. No argument behind it though.

[speedchuck]

Okay, I see that.

...

Wanna lynch Sig?

Where did this come from?

The recesses of my poor, aching, confused mind.

[speedchuck]

join us sig...

[sig]

Spoiler: show

Tranq: Nice analysis.

Also, the night 1 post reads like recruitment, since Spike is with Angelus. Could be story telling, yes, but also makes sense of the hosts vaguely letting us know what's happening.

Masterful Ploy

"Oi!" cried Spike from the cave entrance. "Where's the blue-glowy-wall thing gone? I grabbed this bloke 'cause he received blood Buffy donated, and-"

"Too late, Spike!" taunted Angelus. "And it's a moot point anyway, since The Master is no longer taking house calls."

Spike looked down at a terrified Marmot. "Bloody hell. Don't need you any more then, do I?" And with that, he snapped Marmot's neck.

[/color][/b]

Of the interactions you name, I'm most concerned with Illy in general. My gut is reading her as bad. It's pure gut and meta, but she doesn't sound like civ illy. Especially the way she talks about the neutrals. It's almost like she is more suspicious of the than the Mafia--Glory as top concern makes sense, but the Mayor is her next top concern? Shouldn't the mafia be more concerning? (I could also see her as either the mayor or glory, for that matter, but I'm thinking vamp)

LoRab, I had you as like a top townread except for the role fishing, which wouldn't even be as bad if you hadn't denied it. But for today, I'm willing to chalk that up to "different backgrounds" (My background is closed setups with lots of role crap, and role fishing [in other words trying to get someone to talk directly about their role or what their role is not] was considered bad bad bad) because we share a common top scumread. Let's talk about that.

You read Illyria as scum for meta, gut, and a few posts. I've been reading her as scum because of tone and interactions, having never played a game with her before.

We arrived at the same conclusion for different, but complementary reasons. And I find that to be a good reason to vote.

This is why I was reading LoRab as town. This is how the Illy lynch started.

This is why i'm hesitant to bus her.

Right now everyone alive minus myself and Tranq voted for Illy.

Mac has bussed a fair amount of teammates, but when he voted for Illy made it seem like it wasn't a bus.


I keep coming back to Tranq he seemed very civvie with his Illy read, yet he voted for Nova multiple times.

[sig]

I'll vote for Lorab right now, but wouldn't be opposed to maybe switching to Tranq if someone else could read him over that would be great.

[S~V~S]

Tranq: Nice analysis.

Also, the night 1 post reads like recruitment, since Spike is with Angelus. Could be story telling, yes, but also makes sense of the hosts vaguely letting us know what's happening.

Masterful Ploy

"Oi!" cried Spike from the cave entrance. "Where's the blue-glowy-wall thing gone? I grabbed this bloke 'cause he received blood Buffy donated, and-"

"Too late, Spike!" taunted Angelus. "And it's a moot point anyway, since The Master is no longer taking house calls."

Spike looked down at a terrified Marmot. "Bloody hell. Don't need you any more then, do I?" And with that, he snapped Marmot's neck.

[/color][/b]

Of the interactions you name, I'm most concerned with Illy in general. My gut is reading her as bad. It's pure gut and meta, but she doesn't sound like civ illy. Especially the way she talks about the neutrals. It's almost like she is more suspicious of the than the Mafia--Glory as top concern makes sense, but the Mayor is her next top concern? Shouldn't the mafia be more concerning? (I could also see her as either the mayor or glory, for that matter, but I'm thinking vamp)

LoRab, I had you as like a top townread except for the role fishing, which wouldn't even be as bad if you hadn't denied it. But for today, I'm willing to chalk that up to "different backgrounds" (My background is closed setups with lots of role crap, and role fishing [in other words trying to get someone to talk directly about their role or what their role is not] was considered bad bad bad) because we share a common top scumread. Let's talk about that.

You read Illyria as scum for meta, gut, and a few posts. I've been reading her as scum because of tone and interactions, having never played a game with her before.

We arrived at the same conclusion for different, but complementary reasons. And I find that to be a good reason to vote.

This is why I was reading LoRab as town. This is how the Illy lynch started.

It could also be read as distancing which got out of hand, since it is the only post of substance she made about Illy. It isn't a hard case. Next was "Vote Illy" and then analyzing other peoples illy votes. I would not put anything past LoRab (said with all love and respect for her and her game). Also Illy did not show up for a few days, it is possible she knew this in advance and her team did as well.

I trust you, sig and Tranq. I know who I am that leaves Mac and LoRab, and I think he is more likely as the SK. But either way,they are the baddies we seek.

[MacDougall]

SVS are you Glory?

[S~V~S]

LOL, No U

[MacDougall]

Good chat.

[Tranq]

wtf is happening

[speedchuck]

wtf is happening

We lynching LoRab.

You in?

[Tranq]

Do you think LoRab is Vampire or Glory? lapluie could've been Glory.

Glory is a goddess from an evil dimension. Attempts to detect Glory will result in a false and innocuous reading. Attempts to kill her at night will mostly fail- only the Slayer can kill her. Glory gets one kill every other night, and she must outlive everyone to win.

lapluie wasn't killed at night.

[speedchuck]

Do you think LoRab is Vampire or Glory? lapluie could've been Glory.

Glory is a goddess from an evil dimension. Attempts to detect Glory will result in a false and innocuous reading. Attempts to kill her at night will mostly fail- only the Slayer can kill her. Glory gets one kill every other night, and she must outlive everyone to win.

lapluie wasn't killed at night.

Vampire. We think LoRab is vamp.

Dunno who Glory is. SVS thinks it's Mac. I'd be perfectly happy if it was Lapluie.

[Tranq]

Ok i don't know why Mac is cleared from being a Vamp but it's almost 1am and i don't have time to look it up right now. LoRab sounds fine.

[MacDougall]

Sig what do you think of tranq?

[sig]

Sig what do you think of tranq?

He tunneled on Nova which was odd and avoided the major wagons, plus not many posts. However, he did also suspect Illy and the reasoning for the nova vote is sound. If he's who we think he is we shouldn't lynch him.

[sig]

Ok i don't know why Mac is cleared from being a Vamp but it's almost 1am and i don't have time to look it up right now. LoRab sounds fine.

I don't like this though.

[sig]

@HOSTS would we be told if we were at Lynch or Lose?

[LoRab]

WTF? I get back from DC to 5 votes on me? I'm neither a vamp nor Glory.

I posted about Illy because I suspected Illy--it was mostly gut, but I also tried to provide some other reasons to help explain where my thoughts were coming from, because I know the culture here tends to appreciate more than just meta. I

Last vampire is Sig, SVS, or Tranq.

Glory is probably not LoRab.

Someone who knows the lore, tell me what conditions could have caused Oz-mageddon

My best guess would be the death of Willow.

Although I could be talked out of it for a LoRab vote, she has been blending and sliding, sliding and blending.

I don't think I've either blended nor slid. As I posted in the sign up thread, it was a busy week last week and I was travelling for work chaperoning teens in dc this weekend, so I haven't posted much recently. I've been doing the best I can.

I dunno. She said she was reading her mafia as pure gut and meta but then gave thread based reasons. That looks like distancing gone wrong.

As I said, I gave thread reasons because I know they are appreciated, especially when others don't know a player. And the way I read gut and "meta" are directly connected to the way people post. Not every pattern would read bad for me with every player--what I pointed out are things that read baddie for me with Illy. And so I posted why I was suspicious. I posted about her as soon as I got on that day, having had the thought during the night before, and someone else had mentioned it before.

It could also be read as distancing which got out of hand, since it is the only post of substance she made about Illy. It isn't a hard case. Next was "Vote Illy" and then analyzing other peoples illy votes. I would not put anything past LoRab (said with all love and respect for her and her game). Also Illy did not show up for a few days, it is possible she knew this in advance and her team did as well.

I trust you, sig and Tranq. I know who I am that leaves Mac and LoRab, and I think he is more likely as the SK. But either way,they are the baddies we seek.

Yes, I didn't make another post about Illy--I was unable to get back to the computer to post any more and I didn't have anything to add about Illy that I hadn't already said or someone else had said--I didn't see a point in repeating myself. And you're right--it isn't a hard case, it was an explanation of why I was pretty sure Illy was bad--and I was right. A gut read is rarely "hard" and I've often been able to gut read Illy--my only hesitation was that I was out of practice.

And that I'd take advantage of a teammate not being there doesn't make sense to me (perhaps you can elaborate)--I generally hate lynching people who aren't there to defend--it's easy to find that about me and several players in the game (like you) know that about me. I voted in this case and didn't change because I was confident--and had no reason to think Illy was unable to come back to defend, just that she wasn't coming back.

[LoRab]

Voting Mac, although I could be convinced to change, as someone is clearly hiding in plain sight, and maybe someone else can find something.

But I feel pretty confident that Mac is bad--not sure if Vamp or Glory, but not good. His tone feels like he's trying to imitate his civ tone, but just doensn't exactly fit. It's just off.

Also, it still doesn't sit well that he used a wish to make Wilgy post videos in the thread. Adding spam to the thread distracts from conversation and isn't a civ action. And his explanation doesn't hold true:

Okay should be sweet now though I fucked up and posted words so I might get recursed again.

You are probably wondering why the videos. Well I wished that Wilgy would get cursed to post animal rights propaganda videos and the wish granted instead made me post cute cat videos.

Okay should be sweet now though I fucked up and posted words so I might get recursed again.

You are probably wondering why the videos. Well I wished that Wilgy would get cursed to post animal rights propaganda videos and the wish granted instead made me post cute cat videos.

Why would you make a wish about a dead player spamming the thread with OT-ness? It would seem to me that such could only distract from conversation.

I made the wish on night one. I thought it would be fun.

Why would the result not come until day 3 if he made the wish on night 1? I lost sight of this because of focusing on the Illy lynch and getting ready to go away, but looking back, it is extremely suspicious.

[MacDougall]

Lol no.

[MacDougall]

So you think I just made that curse shit up? You just came at me because the rest of the town put us in 1v1. What's your read on SVS, sig or tranq?

I wished night 1. Didn't receive my curse til mid day 2. I asked if I could just do it day 3 and was obliged.

If you think me trolling Wilgy is a scum move you haven't been paying attention.

Happy to leave my vote where it is.