Fire Emblem Draft Mafia [Game Over]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I see that's interesting

linki: Jay is being very aggressive., moreso then I remember?

Jay takes pleasure it ripping bullshit to pieces.

[TonyStarkPrime]

@sig Mac made a fake callout of rdw as a "trap", he didn't really scumread him, and as for kyle you may be remembering Tony's mysterious accusation of Kyle which he still has not explained

linki: oh jay says it was SFQ, which I didn't win ftr

Does anyone else have any thoughts on Kyle? Cause I'm surprised by the lack of thoughts on Kyle.

[dunya]

have i convinced you, baby? *bats eyelashes*

I'm thinking it over. I remain baffled, and I am also trying to separate general confusion from suspicion. The suspicion of him you did support is quite like Epignosis's suspicion. What is your read on Colin overall?

I feel like his last post was emotional and sincere, and genuinely frustrated with you. (I know what it feels like to be at the wrong end of the stick with you).

the argument progression from scolding Epi's methods for being dangerous to town, and then calling him scum is suspicious, sure, but I will not be lynching him Day 1. I refuse to lynch any first timers I invited on Day 1. He deserves a chance to adapt after being thrown into such a huge game with so many new rules and faces.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I feel like his last post was emotional and sincere, and genuinely frustrated with you. (I know what it feels like to be at the wrong end of the stick with you).

the argument progression from scolding Epi's methods for being dangerous to town, and then calling him scum is suspicious, sure, but I will not be lynching him Day 1. I refuse to lynch any first timers I invited on Day 1. He deserves a chance to adapt after being thrown into such a huge game with so many new rules and faces.

How about a first-timer you didn't invite? Gimme those dunya intuitions on Dr. White, if you could.

[dunya]

I feel like his last post was emotional and sincere, and genuinely frustrated with you. (I know what it feels like to be at the wrong end of the stick with you).

the argument progression from scolding Epi's methods for being dangerous to town, and then calling him scum is suspicious, sure, but I will not be lynching him Day 1. I refuse to lynch any first timers I invited on Day 1. He deserves a chance to adapt after being thrown into such a huge game with so many new rules and faces.

How about a first-timer you didn't invite? Gimme those dunya intuitions on Dr. White, if you could.

You and Epi have both actively ignored nutella. Epi was called out on it, and you have just played on. What's up with that? What's your GTH read on nutella right now?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I feel like his last post was emotional and sincere, and genuinely frustrated with you. (I know what it feels like to be at the wrong end of the stick with you).

the argument progression from scolding Epi's methods for being dangerous to town, and then calling him scum is suspicious, sure, but I will not be lynching him Day 1. I refuse to lynch any first timers I invited on Day 1. He deserves a chance to adapt after being thrown into such a huge game with so many new rules and faces.

How about a first-timer you didn't invite? Gimme those dunya intuitions on Dr. White, if you could.

You and Epi have both actively ignored nutella. Epi was called out on it, and you have just played on. What's up with that? What's your GTH read on nutella right now?

I have been poking her along the way. I think she has said some suspicious things and I understand why you and Mac are peeved. I also think she has handled heavy pressure upright and resolutely. She does not appear phased at all, and has nearly matched her mafia-aligned post count of MK (4+ game cycles) already in this game. Gun to my head I say civilian. If she is mafia then she is playing it like Rambo.

[MacDougall]

She has been forced to though. Post count nai.

[Dr. White]

That's complete and utter bullshit JJJ and you know it. You are clearly being super daft at the original quote, which you have been called out for by others. Saying the interaction between you two is "interesting" is very clear. It was very sus that you would so strongly town read someone THAT EARLY in D1, simply because he gave his own reads that weren't apart of the major town babble. You keep conflating this as if bob had 100 post in Day 1, and 36 hours had passed or something. It was extremely early and on questionable grounds that you gave him such a strong read.

This however does not force the conclusion that both or either of you are scum, which you keep trying to use as a means to sus me for not directly stating such. I am simply making my take on an interaction known. Yes you could be scum buddies, or you could be using him for town cred. I don't know yet, it is something to build upon in later interactions between you two and others in the thread. To quote your system "you lost a point there". Now what you're doing is like someone saying "what do you mean by that JJJ? Why don't you just come out and say I'm scum!".

The fact that you've latched on to me so strongly from this, keep questioning my blatant as hell meaning with the quote, and now are trying to push this narrative that I'm ducking you, is very, very suspect, and I honestly don't believe you are this daft.

What is this and why should I give a shit?

No it fucking isn't.

Horseshit. colonialbob made posts and I made a read. You know what you did in response? Made a read. You made a read that you are presently calling "very sus". That's strong language. How can you have such a strong read so early?

I "keep trying to use it as a means" so hard that I said it one time. Fake.

We could be scumbuddies. I could be buddying a civilian for credit. I can't be town myself. Garbage.

There is nothing blatant about the meaning of "interesting" in a "read" being made in a Mafia game.

You're freaking the fuck out and spewing trash. Die.

> It means others have noticed your blatant bullshitting about not knowing what I meant. Very simple.

> Uhm, yes it is.

> Yes because you keep bringing it up every time we converse. Hence my words.

> False equivalnce. You made a strong read off of ONE action. You did not state you read bob that way because of his body of post but rather solely because of his reads which weren't apart of the major town conversation. I called your ACTION very sus, not you as a player which would have lead to a mafia lean. I am now leaning mafia towards you due to your insistence on me combined with bad arguments, and your reactions in this conversation. So miss me with your bullshit.

> I never said you couldn't be town. I was clearly replying from the standpoint of your sus action being due to you being nefarious. It's called context.

> So how else would you take that JJJ? You think I found it academically interesting and wanted to write a thesis on internet forum replies? You said yourself that you thought I was trying to say you and bob were scum buddies hence "putting me and bob together is too simple" and telling me to come out and say I think you are scum. I even explained this to you afterwards, and it was until our most recent exchange that you "finally got" your answer. Which is nonsense given well, I know you know how to read.

Lmao, I'm the one freaking out

[gwilikers6]

What is 'nai'?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

She has been forced to though. Post count nai.

I don't think it's NAI. I think some people are slowpokes even under pressure. Like Dr. White, for example, who is throwing poop at me a few times per hour.

[Epignosis]

have i convinced you, baby? *bats eyelashes*

I'm thinking it over. I remain baffled, and I am also trying to separate general confusion from suspicion. The suspicion of him you did support is quite like Epignosis's suspicion. What is your read on Colin overall?

I feel like his last post was emotional and sincere, and genuinely frustrated with you. (I know what it feels like to be at the wrong end of the stick with you).

the argument progression from scolding Epi's methods for being dangerous to town, and then calling him scum is suspicious, sure, but I will not be lynching him Day 1. I refuse to lynch any first timers I invited on Day 1. He deserves a chance to adapt after being thrown into such a huge game with so many new rules and faces.

THAT is player salad.

"I'm not lynching half the people in this game."

I get the sentiment, but if a new RYM person is the Don, then you are protecting that person. And this is an easy way to do it.

Fuck that. New people get no special treatment here because they make up half the field.

[dunya]

That's complete and utter bullshit JJJ and you know it. You are clearly being super daft at the original quote, which you have been called out for by others. Saying the interaction between you two is "interesting" is very clear. It was very sus that you would so strongly town read someone THAT EARLY in D1, simply because he gave his own reads that weren't apart of the major town babble. You keep conflating this as if bob had 100 post in Day 1, and 36 hours had passed or something. It was extremely early and on questionable grounds that you gave him such a strong read.

This however does not force the conclusion that both or either of you are scum, which you keep trying to use as a means to sus me for not directly stating such. I am simply making my take on an interaction known. Yes you could be scum buddies, or you could be using him for town cred. I don't know yet, it is something to build upon in later interactions between you two and others in the thread. To quote your system "you lost a point there". Now what you're doing is like someone saying "what do you mean by that JJJ? Why don't you just come out and say I'm scum!".

The fact that you've latched on to me so strongly from this, keep questioning my blatant as hell meaning with the quote, and now are trying to push this narrative that I'm ducking you, is very, very suspect, and I honestly don't believe you are this daft.

What is this and why should I give a shit?

quick point, who has called Jay out for "being super daft at an original quote"?

I mean, I know how he loves to analyze words and sometimes assume you mean something you didn't say to the point of convincing you that maybe you did mean to say what he is saying you said...but still, who called out Jay for being super daft? I want to shake their hands. no but really, I didn't see these people?

now, Dr. White, what would you say if I quote you at least 3 others who have quoted people's reads on other people and have them town cred for that simply because they came out and said something? Because I can. Because it's happened in this thread, several times. Perhaps this is something you aren't accustomed to; maybe you're as stingy with your town reads as Jay is with his 4+ start ratings on magnificent albums. But as a third party neutral, calling cBob strong town on Day 1 doesn't really mean shit in the grand scheme of things. It means he pinged him the right way and viola, a town read was assigned. Similarly, it takes 1 negative ping on Day 1 and a sus read is assigned.

Why are you making such a huge deal out of this? Are you actually convinced Jay is scum now because he called cBob town?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

> It means others have noticed your blatant bullshitting about not knowing what I meant. Very simple.

Who wants to claim this? I don't remember seeing anyone saying that I should know what Dr. White meant. I do remember people saying "interesting" is not a suspicious word, but that's not the same thing.

And for you, Dr. White -- why is it relevant at all that "other people" have some opinion (whether they really do or not)? Does that make me scum?

> Uhm, yes it is.

You don't get to make vague ass comments and then pretend your meaning was obvious. Please.

> Yes because you keep bringing it up every time we converse. Hence my words.

No, I don't keep doing that. I said it once. You have now mentioned it twice without me having said it. You keep bringing it up.

False equivalnce. You made a strong read off of ONE action. You did not state you read bob that way because of his body of post but rather solely because of his reads which weren't apart of the major town conversation. I called your ACTION very sus, not you as a player which would have lead to a mafia lean. I am now leaning mafia towards you due to your insistence on me combined with bad arguments, and your reactions in this conversation. So miss me with your bullshit.

That's right, I did make a strong read off of ONE (such drama) action. Sometimes ONE action is a selling point. Something ONE action inspires a read. Sometimes it's a strong read. I feel like you have to have never played Mafia before to really hold this perspective.

I never said you couldn't be town. I was clearly replying from the standpoint of your sus action being due to you being nefarious. It's called context.

I know you didn't say it. You don't seem to have considered it.

So how else would you take that JJJ? You think I found it academically interesting and wanted to write a thesis on internet forum replies? You said yourself that you thought I was trying to say you and bob were scum buddies hence "putting me and bob together is too simple" and telling me to come out and say I think you are scum. I even explained this to you afterwards, and it was until our most recent exchange that you "finally got" your answer. Which is nonsense given well, I know you know how to read.

You're telling me that it should be obvious that by "interesting", you meant specifically that I might be colonianbob's teammate or I might be buddying colonialbob for civilian credit or it's just generally suspicious to have a strong town read.

None of that follows. You used a vague word and now you're portraying as a clear word. Fuck outta here.

[dunya]

have i convinced you, baby? *bats eyelashes*

I'm thinking it over. I remain baffled, and I am also trying to separate general confusion from suspicion. The suspicion of him you did support is quite like Epignosis's suspicion. What is your read on Colin overall?

I feel like his last post was emotional and sincere, and genuinely frustrated with you. (I know what it feels like to be at the wrong end of the stick with you).

the argument progression from scolding Epi's methods for being dangerous to town, and then calling him scum is suspicious, sure, but I will not be lynching him Day 1. I refuse to lynch any first timers I invited on Day 1. He deserves a chance to adapt after being thrown into such a huge game with so many new rules and faces.

THAT is player salad.

"I'm not lynching half the people in this game."

I get the sentiment, but if a new RYM person is the Don, then you are protecting that person. And this is an easy way to do it.

Fuck that. New people get no special treatment here because they make up half the field.

shrug. that's your decision. If we didn't have any other suspects, I might have looked into other leads, but since there's 5 scum, and I do have other suspects, I'm not lynching Colin Day 1 to please your whims. Like you said to someone else, this is a 24 player game, forget my vote and try to convince the other 21 to vote alongside you.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

What is 'nai'?

Not Alignment Indicative

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Respond in mega-post form again if you like, Dr. White. I think the exchange has reached the point where it won't continue to be productive and will instead devour the thread. Other players can read and assess, my part in it ends here.

[Dr. White]

That's complete and utter bullshit JJJ and you know it. You are clearly being super daft at the original quote, which you have been called out for by others. Saying the interaction between you two is "interesting" is very clear. It was very sus that you would so strongly town read someone THAT EARLY in D1, simply because he gave his own reads that weren't apart of the major town babble. You keep conflating this as if bob had 100 post in Day 1, and 36 hours had passed or something. It was extremely early and on questionable grounds that you gave him such a strong read.

This however does not force the conclusion that both or either of you are scum, which you keep trying to use as a means to sus me for not directly stating such. I am simply making my take on an interaction known. Yes you could be scum buddies, or you could be using him for town cred. I don't know yet, it is something to build upon in later interactions between you two and others in the thread. To quote your system "you lost a point there". Now what you're doing is like someone saying "what do you mean by that JJJ? Why don't you just come out and say I'm scum!".

The fact that you've latched on to me so strongly from this, keep questioning my blatant as hell meaning with the quote, and now are trying to push this narrative that I'm ducking you, is very, very suspect, and I honestly don't believe you are this daft.

What is this and why should I give a shit?

quick point, who has called Jay out for "being super daft at an original quote"?

I mean, I know how he loves to analyze words and sometimes assume you mean something you didn't say to the point of convincing you that maybe you did mean to say what he is saying you said...but still, who called out Jay for being super daft? I want to shake their hands. no but really, I didn't see these people?

now, Dr. White, what would you say if I quote you at least 3 others who have quoted people's reads on other people and have them town cred for that simply because they came out and said something? Because I can. Because it's happened in this thread, several times. Perhaps this is something you aren't accustomed to; maybe you're as stingy with your town reads as Jay is with his 4+ start ratings on magnificent albums. But as a third party neutral, calling cBob strong town on Day 1 doesn't really mean shit in the grand scheme of things. It means he pinged him the right way and viola, a town read was assigned. Similarly, it takes 1 negative ping on Day 1 and a sus read is assigned.

Why are you making such a huge deal out of this? Are you actually convinced Jay is scum now because he called cBob town?

> I actually believe it was you. You said something along the lines of Jay making things overly complicated because I was new. I used the word daft but was referecing them clearly having the impression that Jay was messing with me in regards to my interesting quote, when in fact he was indeed serious.

> I never claimed this was a big deal? IF you actually read my post, and stopped defending Jay for a second you'd realize that I am more concerned with his subsequent reaction to me making that observation more so than the observation itself. which is why I said
"This however does not force the conclusion that both or either of you are scum, which you keep trying to use as a means to sus me for not directly stating such. I am simply making my take on an interaction known. Yes you could be scum buddies, or you could be using him for town cred. I don't know yet, it is something to build upon in later interactions between you two and others in the thread. To quote your system "you lost a point there". Now what you're doing is like someone saying "what do you mean by that JJJ? Why don't you just come out and say I'm scum!". "

> No, once again please read my posts before making a narrative of me. I made a comment about how we could pressure JJJ to see what came of it (since I had slight sus of him), and explained why I sussed him and why he kept bringing me up as a scum read, voted me, and championed others too (with his whole F the grace period for newbies line) and then JJJ responded and we are in this whole shtick now.

[gwilikers6]

I also keep meaning to ask what tinfoiling is?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I also keep meaning to ask what tinfoiling is?

"tinfoil" is generally used to describe suspicion one has of a player who is generally trusted, or a back-of-mind fear about someone's motives

[ColinIsCool]

Y'all, this condescending stuff is not gonna fly, I don't need to be in this game.

I don't see what I'm not communicating here. It is really, really strange for a townie, no matter the phase, to come into the thread and advertise themselves alone as a threat to the mafia. If you really think you have an ace in the hole or a way to get a leg up, you want to disguise it innocuously. You don't want to say stuff like "if the Mafia knew what I was doing, they'd try to stop me." Well, now they know they have a good reason to try to stop you either way, so it's USELESS.

I don't intend to be condescending, so please don't take offense. I simply don't believe the argument you're putting forth here.

1.) Epignosis has a zero percent chance of being night killed on Day 1, so that we're talking about this at all is already goofy.

2.) Where is this brazen advertisement of being an imminent threat? Epignosis said he isn't going to tell you what he intends with his exercise because it would render the exercise pointless. Maybe it even is pointless. You haven't given it a chance though. Before it has ever developed, barely halfway into the day phase, you have discarded it as nothing. Why not give Epignosis time to do whatever he's doing before you make that decision? Maybe it's an hour to EOD and he still hasn't done shit. Then you can make this case more validly. It isn't that hard to fathom why this exercise might have value. First and foremost, what is the core source of this current dialogue? It's right in front of your face.

3.) The entire premise that a civilian inherently must play timidly to avoid night kills flies in the face of common sense. If you're an alignment cop, sure, be careful. Otherwise who gives a damn? The objective of this game is not to survive. It is to lynch mafia.

1) I don't understand why you think I'm worried about that. I know that doesn't happen. But what might happen if I came into this thread and said, "hey, I have a great idea to take down the mafia, but the mafia can't know about it." I'd probably be a target for the following night phase. Why not lay a little lower?

2) I've given my reasons for why I've "discarded it as nothing." I think it's an unhelpful distraction from real scumhunting. I'd be glad to be proven wrong, but his conduct doesn't give me any town points.

3) Those of you who are OG RYMers will remember that I was a cop who sussed out 3/4 (or maybe all of, idk) the mafia team in one of the earliest games. I did a lot of behind the scenes engineering to make those lynches happen. What I did not do was do engineering in the thread, saying things like "I can't tell you what I'm up to or the Mafia will ruin it" to pique their suspicions. Show me one instance of Epignosis being helpful in this entire game and maybe I'll reconsider, but I bet you can't.

Jimmy re. Colin.

Since you are the encyclopedia of RYMafia can you help me. I seem to recall that despite starting the RYMafia craze (unless I am conflating him with someone else) Colin had a large break at one point and upon return we had evolved the game so much that he came across abnormal and caught heat for it and also felt like everyone else was very foreign and playing a different game to him and vocalised it.

If you can recall in which game that was and what his alignment was that would be super because it feels like he is doing the same thing here and I feel like it might just be his focus on how the game ought to be played that is attracting all this suspicion.

Colin you might recall too?

Yeah, despite what Jimmuy said I think this kinda happened. This was when everybody was throwing around metas as the extent of scumhunting and I had no idea wtf I was doing. I wanna say maybe it was communism themed but honestly I have no idea. And I have no idea what my alignment was either. I didn't start RYMafia but I was on the ground floor of it, never hosted.

My whole point is irrelevant because I mistook him for sinagog. Moving on.

It may not be irrelevant, because I am sure the intensity of this brand of Mafia is not the same as what Colin was accustomed to in the early games on RYM. I don't know if that culture shock is a good reason for him to assume Epignosis should be hiding from night kills though. I just don't get that argument.

Some civs like to avoid night kills no? I'm sure we have had that conversation before.

Old timey Syndikats who are accustomed to survival win conditions might. I generally don't give a shit about avoiding kills. Granted, I rarely seem to get killed.

The structure of the argument, as I see it (correct me if it's a misinterpretation, Colin) is this:

A. Epignosis is employing an exercise which doesn't look especially productive.

B. Epignosis is not giving details about the purpose of the exercise or what he hopes to do with it because it might tip of the Mafia team to his intentions.

C. This means Epignosis is admitting to being a threat to the mafia and thus a potential night kill target.

D. A civilian shouldn't make himself so openly a night kill target.

~~~

I think (A) is too quick to discard the exercise when the day is young enough that there's no urgency for Epignosis to have any perspective other than (B). Moreover, I don't understand how (C) follows from (B) -- a gap in reasoning is being crossed and it makes little sense to me. Playing some exercise in the thread and keeping its purpose under wraps is not equivalent to having some unique power role which should terrify the mafia team. That logic is bizarre. (D) can be a matter of culture shock/clash. I think it's an overly simplistic portrayal of a broad strategic concept, but some people probably do avoid night kills even to the detriment of their own civilian team.

(A) may be too quick to discard. But Epignosis' insistence on doing it, without offering even a lazy reason why, is strange to me.
As far as (B) to (C), look for where Epignosis said this as I quoted earlier:

"You have asked me or wondered aloud now three times about what I am doing. I haven't answered you. There's a damn good reason for that. Were I to answer, the mafia now know what I am doing."

Damn good reason. If there's a damn good reason to not tell me what he's doing, then I think there's also a damn good reason to not hammer the fact that he is doing it. It is daring townies to be suspicious, and daring mafia to suspect they may have a reason to worry. Chalk it up to different playstyles, maybe, but that's not a great look if you wanna have your master townie plan come together.

I suspect him for implying I was not mafia, discrediting my approach without seeing what I have to offer, and then suspecting me.

1, I never implied you weren't mafia, and have already said so. 2, burden of proof's not on me to be convinced. 3, y'all shady.

I don't see what I'm not communicating here. It is really, really strange for a townie, no matter the phase, to come into the thread and advertise themselves alone as a threat to the mafia. If you really think you have an ace in the hole or a way to get a leg up, you want to disguise it innocuously. You don't want to say stuff like "if the Mafia knew what I was doing, they'd try to stop me." Well, now they know they have a good reason to try to stop you either way, so it's USELESS.

Here. This. This is what I find so gross. There's such an obvious interpretation that Colin is not acknowledging.

Epignosis doesn't want to tip off the mafia team. It isn't about their "wanting to stop him". It's about their understanding of his intentions and reacting accordingly. If there's something he's looking for, or some overall purpose under the surface -- saying what it is in the thread prevents it from working. The mafia maneuver their behavior to improve their appearances.

I have been that guy so many times. It's the exact reason why the first few times I ran those gun-to-head reads exercises, I was as vague as possible about what I was doing until the last second. Tipping off the mafia team to your moves is foolish, and that Colin demanded that of Epignosis with this bolded bullshit in hand strikes me such crap.

Adjust behavior accordingly ... as in, maybe night kill him? Weren't you just saying you don't understand what I was saying about that?

D. this is not exactly the whole story, because he's also calling Epi scum for doing it and not just scolding a civ Epi. I wouldn't say this exercise has helped me decide whether Epi is scum or town yet, but what I don't like in this (unlike your reasons), is Colin's handling of the argument which points to WHY a civ SHOULDN'T do what Epi does, the whole argument reliant on a civ Epi to make sense, then call him scum. Unless he believes Epi is being really contrary? Idgi.

I think it looks suss, but I don't think I ever called Epi scum; I said his vote against me looked like a "defensive scum move." Epi has not done any scumhunting and, when confronted about his exercise, is over the top antagonistic about it. And he voted for me, literally because I voted for him, check the ISO. So yeah, not big town vibes here all things considered, but if I really thought he were scum I would have voted for him a few hours ago. My main bad vibe also comes from the point I made earlier in this post re: "damn good reason."

[ColinIsCool]

Oh my God there were so many new posts just now. Give me a minute in case anybody asked me anything that I didn't address ...

[ColinIsCool]

Ah, btw, when I said "voted for him" in my last point I meant "voiced suspicion of him," that was a typo.

[Dr. White]

Also can I get meta descriptions for DDL on this forum and nutella by any chance?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Adjust behavior accordingly ... as in, maybe night kill him? Weren't you just saying you don't understand what I was saying about that?

No. What I am talking about has nothing to do with night kills. I am saying that there are responsive capacities to whatever reads Epi might derive from his exercise. He might have certain expectations for how it will be handled or treated in this thread, and to tip off those expectations in any way neutralizes his ability to take advantage of his own move. I am talking behavioral adjustments by the mafia team in the game thread where he can see them.

I am less suspicious of you now that I was a few hours ago, so this doesn't need to remain a constant argument. Go hunt, find bad guys, and I'll continue to mull it over.

[colonialbob]

[mention]ColinIsCool[/mention] the only thing I don't get is why you brought the nightkill into it when we were barely halfway into the day phase?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Also can I get meta descriptions for DDL on this forum and nutella by any chance?

They're both pretty variable in their styles, so it's not the easiest descriptions to request (not your fault). Briefly:

I would say a civilian DDL operates in accordance with his own whims and pursuits, and doesn't necessarily concern himself with prevailing dialogues (though he doesn't avoid them either). He is reasonably active and assertive. There has been very little data on a mafia DDL.

A civilian nutella in recent memory has been active and assertive to a point. She plays loose and fires reads into the thread without a lot of concern for the consequences. Mafia nutella has been less willing to take concrete stances.

I would call these metas barely reliable if that.

[dunya]

> I actually believe it was you. You said something along the lines of Jay making things overly complicated because I was new. I used the word daft but was referecing them clearly having the impression that Jay was messing with me in regards to my interesting quote, when in fact he was indeed serious.

> I never claimed this was a big deal? IF you actually read my post, and stopped defending Jay for a second you'd realize that I am more concerned with his subsequent reaction to me making that observation more so than the observation itself. which is why I said
"This however does not force the conclusion that both or either of you are scum, which you keep trying to use as a means to sus me for not directly stating such. I am simply making my take on an interaction known. Yes you could be scum buddies, or you could be using him for town cred. I don't know yet, it is something to build upon in later interactions between you two and others in the thread. To quote your system "you lost a point there". Now what you're doing is like someone saying "what do you mean by that JJJ? Why don't you just come out and say I'm scum!". "

> No, once again please read my posts before making a narrative of me. I made a comment about how we could pressure JJJ to see what came of it (since I had slight sus of him), and explained why I sussed him and why he kept bringing me up as a scum read, voted me, and championed others too (with his whole F the grace period for newbies line) and then JJJ responded and we are in this whole shtick now.

hi Dr. White! I'm dunya, and I read everything. Because I have no life and also because I'm a fast reader.

I never said you claimed it was a big deal, but sometimes our actions speak louder than our words and everything you've done has implied that it sorta is a big deal to you. There's new Dr. White/JJJ drama. This is similar to ColinIsCool/Epignosis drama. Almost as large in this thread now. And whether you intended for it or not, you have portrayed Jay in a bad light by calling him out on his bullshit. That's a normal progression of thought to the spectator who isn't involved. Jay is fighting Dr. White because he's calling him on his bullshit, and Dr. White is flinging shit back to Jay, calling him on HIS bullshit. One has to ponder why you would do that if you don't actually believe he's scum. What is the bottom line purpose? (don't answer that, I answered it for you later because you mentioned why you did it). Why would you get so worked up and emotional if you thought you were having a no-end back and forth with a civilian? You wanted to pressure him to see whether he was scum or town.

I mean, honestly, I sympathize with you. I've done that before and Jay exploded on me (vocally, cos we were doing a vocaroo mafia), and it was disturbing how easily and quickly he assembled a nice little following to chop my head of (we were civ/civ ftr). I stood by my reasoning that what he did pinged me until he convinced me otherwise, aggressively so, and I retracted my claims. I caught a lot of prolonged shit for it that was hard to shake off, but eh..

Forget everything else: tell me now, as of this second, how has your "pressure case" on Jay developed your read of him? Are you in any better position to lynch him today?

[ColinIsCool]

@ColinIsCool the only thing I don't get is why you brought the nightkill into it when we were barely halfway into the day phase?

I straight up don't understand this question any time anybody's asked it. Because the things you do in the day phase affect how the mafia perceives you and if you get nightkilled on day 1, you don't live to day 2, and you can't contribute useful information/win the game? Is there a difference in fundamental game mechanics between this site and everywhere else in the universe Mafia is played that I'm not getting?

[MacDougall]

Mafia nutella has been less willing to take concrete stances.

Like here you mean?

[dunya]

I am less suspicious of you now that I was a few hours ago

am I to blame?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Mafia nutella has been less willing to take concrete stances.

Like here you mean?

Is that like here?

[dunya]

@ColinIsCool the only thing I don't get is why you brought the nightkill into it when we were barely halfway into the day phase?

I straight up don't understand this question any time anybody's asked it. Because the things you do in the day phase affect how the mafia perceives you and if you get nightkilled on day 1, you don't live to day 2, and you can't contribute useful information/win the game? Is there a difference in fundamental game mechanics between this site and everywhere else in the universe Mafia is played that I'm not getting?

yea, you get killed on night 1 instead of day 1. Night 1 comes after Day 1 and before Day 2.

[rundontwalk]

Also can I get meta descriptions for DDL on this forum and nutella by any chance?

They're both pretty variable in their styles, so it's not the easiest descriptions to request (not your fault). Briefly:

I would say a civilian DDL operates in accordance with his own whims and pursuits, and doesn't necessarily concern himself with prevailing dialogues (though he doesn't avoid them either). He is reasonably active and assertive. There has been very little data on a mafia DDL.

A civilian nutella in recent memory has been active and assertive to a point. She plays loose and fires reads into the thread without a lot of concern for the consequences. Mafia nutella has been less willing to take concrete stances.

I would call these metas barely reliable if that.

You've called her out on exactly that Jay.

[ColinIsCool]

Adjust behavior accordingly ... as in, maybe night kill him? Weren't you just saying you don't understand what I was saying about that?

No. What I am talking about has nothing to do with night kills. I am saying that there are responsive capacities to whatever reads Epi might derive from his exercise. He might have certain expectations for how it will be handled or treated in this thread, and to tip off those expectations in any way neutralizes his ability to take advantage of his own move. I am talking behavioral adjustments by the mafia team in the game thread where he can see them.

I am less suspicious of you now that I was a few hours ago, so this doesn't need to remain a constant argument. Go hunt, find bad guys, and I'll continue to mull it over.

I just don't see it, man. I'd be glad to be proven wrong, I'll readily admit it when I'm wrong, but I've already given a lot of reasons for why the whole thing doesn't make sense to me strategically, reasons other people have voiced without getting heat for.

[Dr. White]

Also can I get meta descriptions for DDL on this forum and nutella by any chance?

They're both pretty variable in their styles, so it's not the easiest descriptions to request (not your fault). Briefly:

I would say a civilian DDL operates in accordance with his own whims and pursuits, and doesn't necessarily concern himself with prevailing dialogues (though he doesn't avoid them either). He is reasonably active and assertive. There has been very little data on a mafia DDL.

A civilian nutella in recent memory has been active and assertive to a point. She plays loose and fires reads into the thread without a lot of concern for the consequences. Mafia nutella has been less willing to take concrete stances.

I would call these metas barely reliable if that.

ok thanks, this is somewhat helpful and good for me to keep in mind. It seems DDL doesn't have any major changes across forums.

[MacDougall]

Yes. Dunya pointed that out.

[mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention]

Linki: Evidently you have too.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I am less suspicious of you now that I was a few hours ago

am I to blame?

You certainly played a role. So did Colin himself; the tone of his defenses has resonated if the content hasn't necessarily. Angry Bear is going to sit back in contemplation.

[rundontwalk]

naming the players who have not posted this phase is not salad

"I would consider lynching X or Y or Z, or W to a lesser degree..." is prototype salad.

[ColinIsCool]

@ColinIsCool the only thing I don't get is why you brought the nightkill into it when we were barely halfway into the day phase?

I straight up don't understand this question any time anybody's asked it. Because the things you do in the day phase affect how the mafia perceives you and if you get nightkilled on day 1, you don't live to day 2, and you can't contribute useful information/win the game? Is there a difference in fundamental game mechanics between this site and everywhere else in the universe Mafia is played that I'm not getting?

yea, you get killed on night 1 instead of day 1. Night 1 comes after Day 1 and before Day 2.

Right right right, that's what I meant. Day 1 to Night 1 to Day 2. Still don't see why people are confused by my anticipating the future.

[dunya]

Also can I get meta descriptions for DDL on this forum and nutella by any chance?

They're both pretty variable in their styles, so it's not the easiest descriptions to request (not your fault). Briefly:

I would say a civilian DDL operates in accordance with his own whims and pursuits, and doesn't necessarily concern himself with prevailing dialogues (though he doesn't avoid them either). He is reasonably active and assertive. There has been very little data on a mafia DDL.

A civilian nutella in recent memory has been active and assertive to a point. She plays loose and fires reads into the thread without a lot of concern for the consequences. Mafia nutella has been less willing to take concrete stances.

I would call these metas barely reliable if that.

ok thanks, this is somewhat helpful and good for me to keep in mind. It seems DDL doesn't have any major changes across forums.

Have you ever played with a scum DDL?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Also can I get meta descriptions for DDL on this forum and nutella by any chance?

They're both pretty variable in their styles, so it's not the easiest descriptions to request (not your fault). Briefly:

I would say a civilian DDL operates in accordance with his own whims and pursuits, and doesn't necessarily concern himself with prevailing dialogues (though he doesn't avoid them either). He is reasonably active and assertive. There has been very little data on a mafia DDL.

A civilian nutella in recent memory has been active and assertive to a point. She plays loose and fires reads into the thread without a lot of concern for the consequences. Mafia nutella has been less willing to take concrete stances.

I would call these metas barely reliable if that.

You've called her out on exactly that Jay.

I did, sure, long ago when she'd made far fewer posts than she has made now.

[colonialbob]

@ColinIsCool the only thing I don't get is why you brought the nightkill into it when we were barely halfway into the day phase?

I straight up don't understand this question any time anybody's asked it. Because the things you do in the day phase affect how the mafia perceives you and if you get nightkilled on day 1, you don't live to day 2, and you can't contribute useful information/win the game? Is there a difference in fundamental game mechanics between this site and everywhere else in the universe Mafia is played that I'm not getting?

Because he still has ~24 hours to talk about why he asked his question and what he felt like he learned. He doesn't want to do so before everybody has responded because that skews what responses he gets.

Obviously ridiculous example: "please everybody name your favorite animal"
*answers by some but not all*
"Hey Epi why did you ask this?"
"Well see anybody who mentions a predator is scientifically proven to be mafia"
*remaining players all name fuzzy herbivores*

Did those last players respond honestly or because they knew what he waa looking for?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

naming the players who have not posted this phase is not salad

"I would consider lynching X or Y or Z, or W to a lesser degree..." is prototype salad.

Player salad is a different accusation, dear RDW. I regret that you cannot yet know the beauty of the player salad.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I would not call nutella a confident civilian read and am open to a case.

[Dr. White]

Forget everything else: tell me now, as of this second, how has your "pressure case" on Jay developed your read of him? Are you in any better position to lynch him today?

Slightly more sus based on how emotional he got. It's one thing to curse or use coarse language but telling someone to die and what not indicates being legit tilted. I'm not sure if that's how he always gets though, so either his emotion is belying him being upset that I'm on his case, or that's just how he gets when arguing with someone he sees are wrong and bullshitting. That's where your impression would be much more helpful.

[MacDougall]

Motherfucker we have been making a case on her all damn day.

Here's the best summary.

I don't do elaborate iso analyses like some other people, I just skim it and write out general impressions, maybe with one or two quotes, so it doesn't take very long

I didn't feel that way reading your Dr. White iso today. It felt pretty comprehensive, though non-conclusive. Even after ISOing him, you refused to give a firm read on him, calling him decent overall, but leaving plenty of room to be swayed one way or the other, then asked Jimmy on what bad he saw in him. Opportunism.

Epi cases ColinIsCool, in great depth, amidst your downfall with RYMers and you take it as a lifeline to see what Epi has cooked up.

MacDougall mentions a possible RDW scumslip - you really jumped for that one. MacDougall claims it was a gag, and you back off.

WIFOM - I didn't go after Colin, because Colin is definitely town. TMI.

Voting for MacDougall when he was an easy lynch target being on holiday and all, then quickly following Long Con on the Shaman whom you drafted (which is still a question mark for me) makes two bad vote lynch decisions that look really opportunistic for you.

reeks of opportunism on all fronts this phase.

[dunya]

Obviously ridiculous example: "please everybody name your favorite animal"
*answers by some but not all*
"Hey Epi why did you ask this?"
"Well see anybody who mentions a predator is scientifically proven to be mafia"
*remaining players all name fuzzy herbivores*

Did those last players respond honestly or because they knew what he waa looking for?

come onnnnn, enough with the hyperbole. there's a lot of grey area than just black and white. One extreme is not another extreme. There's a lot of answers in between, is what Colin is trying to say, that don't make him look like he's plotting the Mafia's downfall one name at a time.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Motherfucker we have been making a case on her all damn day.

No offense, but I sometimes drown out MacDougall responding to every post with repeated accusations in a continuous string.

[MacDougall]

Read her initial vote for me and her Dr. White iso for evidence of her apprehension to make concrete reads.

[Dr. White]

Also can I get meta descriptions for DDL on this forum and nutella by any chance?

They're both pretty variable in their styles, so it's not the easiest descriptions to request (not your fault). Briefly:

I would say a civilian DDL operates in accordance with his own whims and pursuits, and doesn't necessarily concern himself with prevailing dialogues (though he doesn't avoid them either). He is reasonably active and assertive. There has been very little data on a mafia DDL.

A civilian nutella in recent memory has been active and assertive to a point. She plays loose and fires reads into the thread without a lot of concern for the consequences. Mafia nutella has been less willing to take concrete stances.

I would call these metas barely reliable if that.

ok thanks, this is somewhat helpful and good for me to keep in mind. It seems DDL doesn't have any major changes across forums.

Have you ever played with a scum DDL?

I don't recall playing against him off top, but he was scum in a HunterxHunter game I hosted. He died pretty early though/