Pikachu Tribe - Day 9

#1151

I think we can all agree to blame Epignosis for that result.

#1152

So... is this confirmation that Speed was civ? Because I thought it wasn't supposed to show up.

#1153

I think his affiliation wasn't revealed, guys. He could be bad.

#1154

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:24 pm I think his affiliation wasn't revealed, guys. He could be bad.

I suppose he could have been an unaffiliated mafia member (No BTSC) But the whole "protection from all Nightkills" in his role is civ-leaning at least, no?

You're right he could be bad. I hope he was/is. We'll see how he acts now that he's on Role #2

#1155

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:27 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:24 pm I think his affiliation wasn't revealed, guys. He could be bad.
I suppose he could have been an unaffiliated mafia member (No BTSC) But the whole "protection from all Nightkills" in his role is civ-leaning at least, no?

You're right he could be bad. I hope he was/is. We'll see how he acts now that he's on Role #2

Assuming town doesn't have vigs. And that there are no third parties.

If there is either of above and I'm the host I usually sneak in a mafia doctor.

Though you could argue Golden and Juliets are both old fashioned hosts and this is a thing I don't see often in the Syndicate, so I wouldn't expect it.

#1156

DDL has convinced me, RIH old Chuck

#1157

Old fashioned hosts???

#1158

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:46 pm Old fashioned hosts???

We come from the stone age of mafia

#1159

Gimme a beak for a day, assuming I don't get noghtkilled, eh?

#1160

juliets wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:46 pm Old fashioned hosts???

Modkill, you reckon?

Only my wife and SVS get to call me old anything.

#1161

lmao sorry

But seriously

TS is like a hidden city in the jungle that stayed hidden from civilizarion for centuries and was only discovered recently by some RYM adventurers.

You guys are so averse to having games with multiple kills it's cute.

#1162

Not that I mind tbh.

It's nice to play games here when you are tired from other places. And vice-versa.

#1163

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:24 pm Epi seems like he's voting for me for the same readon he voted for Quin yesterday. He needs to save someone (Speed)

Which is fine and dandy but I'm hyped for the moment Epi will actually start scumhunting people.

#1164

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:00 pm
Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:24 pm Epi seems like he's voting for me for the same readon he voted for Quin yesterday. He needs to save someone (Speed)

Which is fine and dandy but I'm hyped for the moment Epi will actually start scumhunting people.

That was what I could infer from your completely unexplained vote on me.

I'm also hyped for something resembling an actual explanation.

#1165

Like, I'm strongly considering hosting my games here with unchangeable votes to try and capture the feeling of the site when I came in 2015.

#1166

2015!?!?!??! Try 2008 boyo.

#1167

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:05 pm 2015!?!?!??! Try 2008 boyo.

I'm not that old myself bro.

#1168

But I came here along with the RYM expedition that discovered this site so I caught a glimpse of what it looked like because the white men brought their CFDs and GTHs.

#1169

before the white men*

#1170

Welcome to the Wakanda of mafia sites fam

#1171

First off, I gave a solid reason why speedchuck was good. People didn't listen because ties.

speedchuck, I'm sorry I couldn't be here to advocate for you, but Wednesdays are whirlwinds of activity for me until after 7pm.

speedchuck wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:58 pm Maybe the mafia is spread across tribes and the only nightkill was over there?

But no, they had a lynch as well.

I am thinking there was a failed nightkill on Pikaside.

speedchuck must have said this because he was bad, right?

nutella got a 90% approval rating from speedchuck. speedchuck speculated that it would be unfair for there to be two lynches going on but not two Night kills. speedchuck was the protector, likely protected nutella, and there was no Night kill over here, but there was one over there. Splitting the game up, upon reflection, makes sense due to the fact that it's twice a long, so splitting it up with two lynches and two Night kills would hasten progress.

I do not believe any of this should clear nutella, given the array of circumstances that might have influenced his action. However, I regard it a point in her favor.

Nothing is conclusive, except that

speedchuck
5
36%
Voters: DharmaHelper, Dom, S~V~S, Long Con, Dragon D. Luffy

These people should be more scrutinized and reevaluated for traces of evil.

#1172

What's the difference between definitive and conclusive?

#1173

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:31 pm What's the difference between definitive and conclusive?

They can be synonymous, but I don't mean conclusive. I mean more along the lines of "unequivocal" or "concrete."

#1174

Indubious.

#1175

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:47 pm Indubious.

These beets are certainly salubrious.

**http://www.last.fm/user/nutella23** · #1176

Well that's a lame role to lynch

#1177

nutella wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:24 pm Well that's a lame role to lynch

Psh. In a game this interesting, it's practically vanilla. Extremely useful vanilla, but boring. I will miss that extra life though.

#1178

I just don't know why so little stock was put into what I was saying about speedchuck being good. In order to believe that he was bad, you would have to believe that he was faking ignorance. If you are a civilian in this game, all I ask of the civilians here is that when someone raises a strong consideration regarding why someone might not be mafia, you engage it with due diligence. Don't tell me he could be faking it or could be doing this or that. Of course he could be. We're aware. Take a definitive stance. Do you think he is faking it? And if you don't really think that, why pursue it?

#1179

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:04 pm I just don't know why so little stock was put into what I was saying about speedchuck being good. In order to believe that he was bad, you would have to believe that he was faking ignorance. If you are a civilian in this game, all I ask of the civilians here is that when someone raises a strong consideration regarding why someone might not be mafia, you engage it with due diligence. Don't tell me he could be faking it or could be doing this or that. Of course he could be. We're aware. Take a definitive stance. Do you think he is faking it? And if you don't really think that, why pursue it?

You're right I should have known better.

#1180

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:04 pm I just don't know why so little stock was put into what I was saying about speedchuck being good. In order to believe that he was bad, you would have to believe that he was faking ignorance. If you are a civilian in this game, all I ask of the civilians here is that when someone raises a strong consideration regarding why someone might not be mafia, you engage it with due diligence. Don't tell me he could be faking it or could be doing this or that. Of course he could be. We're aware. Take a definitive stance. Do you think he is faking it? And if you don't really think that, why pursue it?

"In order to believe that he was bad, you would have to believe that he was faking ignorance."

Pretty sure I disproved that already.

#1181

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:46 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:04 pm I just don't know why so little stock was put into what I was saying about speedchuck being good. In order to believe that he was bad, you would have to believe that he was faking ignorance. If you are a civilian in this game, all I ask of the civilians here is that when someone raises a strong consideration regarding why someone might not be mafia, you engage it with due diligence. Don't tell me he could be faking it or could be doing this or that. Of course he could be. We're aware. Take a definitive stance. Do you think he is faking it? And if you don't really think that, why pursue it?
"In order to believe that he was bad, you would have to believe that he was faking ignorance."

Pretty sure I disproved that already.

You said you would do that as either alignment. That's you. Not speedchuck.

#1182

Enh, maybe "disproved" is strong. More like, I posted why my own experience leads me to decry your insistence that if he's bad, he's faking.

Long Con wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:10 pm
Epignosis wrote: ↑Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:07 pm Here's my take on speedchuck at this point.

If he's bad, he has to be faking ignorance. He's been adamant that alignments can't change. He's been on colonialbob's ass like twice now. And there's one or two things more I don't really remember and don't feel like digging up.

speedchuck, if he is bad, is a strategist, and a strategist needs to be informed.

The only way speedchuck is mafia right now is if he is acutely aware of his reputation as a strategist and is playing "town fool," as it were.
Speedchuck is different than me then. I could easily make those mistakes as either alignment.

Linki: yeah, that's what I did, and that's why I'm really uncomfortable with your talking in absolutes on the subject.

#1183

I don't care about talking in absolutes. I want people to take a position on the things I say. When I said what you quoted regarding speedchuck, I wanted people to tell me why I am right or why I am wrong, and to consider their own suspicion of speedchuck regarding the assumption I believed you had to accept if you indeed suspected him. But people just voted him anyway.

I don't need people to tell me I could be wrong or that you could make those mistakes as either alignment. I am aware of possibilities. I want people to take some stances.

#1184

To all:

Instead of just suspecting people, look over their posts and see if you can find a reason why you should reasonably interpret what they have posted and done in the context of a civilian role.

JJJ has a thread in which he talks about the Great Civilian Team and what manners of players would exist on it.

I believe mine is "The Defense Attorney."

Spoiler: show

Also:

Spoiler: show

Accusing people is fine, but I have found more success working out who civilians are and then going from there. It creates a tiny box that mafia have to huddle against one another, one that gets smaller with each passing Day.

It is a perfect method? You know the answer to that.

Will I abuse that when I am bad? You know the answer to that too.

Are people going to accuse me of being bad with the people I am defending? I don't care.

Try doing it yourself sometime and see if your results improve.

#1185

Make mafia explain their suspicions. Do not let them wave their hands at a reasonable doubt.

#1186

And if all else fails, cast acid splash.

#1187

Sounds like POE.

#1188

Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:24 am Sounds like POE.

There's overlaps, but it isn't at all the same thing, especially in a game with no claiming.

The object isn't to collectively clear someone- it's to get civilians to reevaluate their votes, stop easy lynches, and force the mafia to invent bullshit cases that will eventually get them caught.

If people vote because OMG TIES PRETTY civilians will lose. We need to be better than that.

#1189

Epignosis is right we're really behind the eight ball here and playing fucky-fucky games is just gonna make things worse

#1190

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:35 am Epignosis is right we're really behind the eight ball here and playing fucky-fucky games is just gonna make things worse

Took you until Night 2 to work that out?

#1191

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:38 am
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:35 am Epignosis is right we're really behind the eight ball here and playing fucky-fucky games is just gonna make things worse
Took you until Night 2 to work that out?

Yes.

#1192

DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:42 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:38 am
DharmaHelper wrote: ↑Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:35 am Epignosis is right we're really behind the eight ball here and playing fucky-fucky games is just gonna make things worse
Took you until Night 2 to work that out?
Yes.

Cool.

#1193

So was DDL being saved by his teammates? Or what?

#1194

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:05 am So was DDL being saved by his teammates? Or what?

Or the baddies giggled in their chat room while the civvies lynch each other. I think most of us who have ever been good baddies can guess that that is a more common early game scenario.

Think that is also a possible scenario, Epi the Engineer, steering that train? After the fact? This coming in after the lynch is over and playing the self righteous card is bogus, imo. SO bogus I actually would be surprised you would be so blatant. So a big

for this. If you ever have a chance (and if STV doesn't still have the Mafia forum hidden) go take a look at Kates Greys Anatomy game on STV. You could be Jack Died (that was the players name, that or something like it) reborn here.

Only bad baddies actively try to lynch civvies, they let the civvies do it, defend the civvies, but, shucks, object too little too late.

And in this game, letting someone go early on a baddie team is strategically OK, since they will still have one life, as if in a normal game. Risking showing your hand in order to save someone who isn't going to die anyhow strikes me as something a good baddie would not do, and we're all champions. I don't know how DDL plays bad, but the rest of the Chuck voters were playing for years when you played your first game, Epi, and I hope we know better (for the most part, lol, I also think this is a group of risk takers, in all transparency) than to go balls to the walls to save a teammate who isn't going to actually die.

The person who most stood out to me was Sprit for refusing to commit. After my early suspish of him, I made a few gushy posts to him, and if he were bad I would have expected him to take the chance to fawn back, but he didn't. Baddies like to butter up those civvies, you know? That made me feel better about him, but that vote and the self righteous tone some of his posts have taken have given me pause again.

And even though he was a civ (at least I think he probably was, although as a host I almost always included a baddie protector role myself, and since we don't know how many mafias there are or if there is another kind of killer,

) I still have to say Chuck was getting my eye to the very end, calling a RR stupid, but then egging on a tie in a game where HE was one of the parties for the lulz. Once again a by product of these mechanics. But right to the end, I figured he wouldn't die if lynched, you could have knockedme over with a feather. So, sorry Chuck, for that. But you can see the dichotomy there, right?

Did these mechanics change baddie behavior in CC123? I looked at it, but who am I kidding? Its enough keeping up with this thread.

sprityo wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:50 pm SVS, have you agreed with anyone so far? like really gelled with the way theyre playing or is everyone suspicious to you? maybe its just how you sound. (minus the haikus of course)

No, why should I be agreeable? Our job is to question everything and everyone. Also the haikus made me sound more harsh, I had to boil things down to 17 syllables, no room for qualifiers or head pats.

#1195

ebwop, although rereading THIS post it comes across as more harsh than I would have liked. Don't take it that way Epi. The snarkathon is aimed at the playing, not the player

#1196

S~V~S wrote: ↑Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:24 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:05 am So was DDL being saved by his teammates? Or what?
Or the baddies giggled in their chat room while the civvies lynch each other. I think most of us who have ever been good baddies can guess that that is a more common early game scenario.

Think that is also a possible scenario, Epi the Engineer, steering that train? After the fact? This coming in after the lynch is over and playing the self righteous card is bogus, imo. SO bogus I actually would be surprised you would be so blatant. So a big for this. If you ever have a chance (and if STV doesn't still have the Mafia forum hidden) go take a look at Kates Greys Anatomy game on STV. You could be Jack Died (that was the players name, that or something like it) reborn here.

Only bad baddies actively try to lynch civvies, they let the civvies do it, defend the civvies, but, shucks, object too little too late.

And in this game, letting someone go early on a baddie team is strategically OK, since they will still have one life, as if in a normal game. Risking showing your hand in order to save someone who isn't going to die anyhow strikes me as something a good baddie would not do, and we're all champions. I don't know how DDL plays bad, but the rest of the Chuck voters were playing for years when you played your first game, Epi, and I hope we know better (for the most part, lol, I also think this is a group of risk takers, in all transparency) than to go balls to the walls to save a teammate who isn't going to actually die.

The person who most stood out to me was Sprit for refusing to commit. After my early suspish of him, I made a few gushy posts to him, and if he were bad I would have expected him to take the chance to fawn back, but he didn't. Baddies like to butter up those civvies, you know? That made me feel better about him, but that vote and the self righteous tone some of his posts have taken have given me pause again.

And even though he was a civ (at least I think he probably was, although as a host I almost always included a baddie protector role myself, and since we don't know how many mafias there are or if there is another kind of killer, ) I still have to say Chuck was getting my eye to the very end, calling a RR stupid, but then egging on a tie in a game where HE was one of the parties for the lulz. Once again a by product of these mechanics. But right to the end, I figured he wouldn't die if lynched, you could have knockedme over with a feather. So, sorry Chuck, for that. But you can see the dichotomy there, right?

Did these mechanics change baddie behavior in CC123? I looked at it, but who am I kidding? Its enough keeping up with this thread.

sprityo wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:50 pm SVS, have you agreed with anyone so far? like really gelled with the way theyre playing or is everyone suspicious to you? maybe its just how you sound. (minus the haikus of course)
No, why should I be agreeable? Our job is to question everything and everyone. Also the haikus made me sound more harsh, I had to boil things down to 17 syllables, no room for qualifiers or head pats.

CC123 is not an actual mafia game. It didn't have civs or baddies. It had people awkwardly trying to find reasons to care for two months, then a weird LMS at the end.

#1197

S~V~S wrote: ↑Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:24 am
Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:05 am So was DDL being saved by his teammates? Or what?
Or the baddies giggled in their chat room while the civvies lynch each other. I think most of us who have ever been good baddies can guess that that is a more common early game scenario.

Think that is also a possible scenario, Epi the Engineer, steering that train? After the fact? This coming in after the lynch is over and playing the self righteous card is bogus, imo. SO bogus I actually would be surprised you would be so blatant. So a big for this. If you ever have a chance (and if STV doesn't still have the Mafia forum hidden) go take a look at Kates Greys Anatomy game on STV. You could be Jack Died (that was the players name, that or something like it) reborn here.

Only bad baddies actively try to lynch civvies, they let the civvies do it, defend the civvies, but, shucks, object too little too late.

And in this game, letting someone go early on a baddie team is strategically OK, since they will still have one life, as if in a normal game. Risking showing your hand in order to save someone who isn't going to die anyhow strikes me as something a good baddie would not do, and we're all champions. I don't know how DDL plays bad, but the rest of the Chuck voters were playing for years when you played your first game, Epi, and I hope we know better (for the most part, lol, I also think this is a group of risk takers, in all transparency) than to go balls to the walls to save a teammate who isn't going to actually die.

The person who most stood out to me was Sprit for refusing to commit. After my early suspish of him, I made a few gushy posts to him, and if he were bad I would have expected him to take the chance to fawn back, but he didn't. Baddies like to butter up those civvies, you know? That made me feel better about him, but that vote and the self righteous tone some of his posts have taken have given me pause again.

And even though he was a civ (at least I think he probably was, although as a host I almost always included a baddie protector role myself, and since we don't know how many mafias there are or if there is another kind of killer, ) I still have to say Chuck was getting my eye to the very end, calling a RR stupid, but then egging on a tie in a game where HE was one of the parties for the lulz. Once again a by product of these mechanics. But right to the end, I figured he wouldn't die if lynched, you could have knockedme over with a feather. So, sorry Chuck, for that. But you can see the dichotomy there, right?

Did these mechanics change baddie behavior in CC123? I looked at it, but who am I kidding? Its enough keeping up with this thread.

sprityo wrote: ↑Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:50 pm SVS, have you agreed with anyone so far? like really gelled with the way theyre playing or is everyone suspicious to you? maybe its just how you sound. (minus the haikus of course)
No, why should I be agreeable? Our job is to question everything and everyone. Also the haikus made me sound more harsh, I had to boil things down to 17 syllables, no room for qualifiers or head pats.

Thats way too many syllables

#1198

But yeah I agree with parts of both Epi and SVS. It bothers me when I ask stuff like "would baddie speed deny my reason to town read him" and Dom shrugs. World-building is a valuable tool that can help distinguish between "civ who said a silly thing/had a bad read" and "mafia trying to deceive".

(I'd also be fine policy lynching people who tie votes at EoD tbh)

#1199

Dragon D. Luffy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:49 am CC123 is not an actual mafia game. It didn't have civs or baddies. It had people awkwardly trying to find reasons to care for two months, then a weird LMS at the end.

Ah. I was hoping for some example of how people acted in similar circumstances in the past, but just as well. Each game is a new adventure

colonialbob wrote: ↑Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:52 am
Thats way too many syllables

I know, right? I was
Almost tempted to go on~
But no freaking way

Linki, Dom can be an infuriating little shit, can't he? I almost ALWAYS town read him so my opinion there is pointless. And lulz are important, ask Chuck.

#1200

Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:27 am
Long Con wrote: ↑Thu Mar 01, 2018 1:24 am Sounds like POE.
There's overlaps, but it isn't at all the same thing, especially in a game with no claiming.

The object isn't to collectively clear someone- it's to get civilians to reevaluate their votes, stop easy lynches, and force the mafia to invent bullshit cases that will eventually get them caught.

If people vote because OMG TIES PRETTY civilians will lose. We need to be better than that.

*cough cough* LC

Who nunchucked sprityo?