Game of Champions 2017 - GAME OVER

[Quin]

The host post mentions a mafia team failing to show up. I'm just tryna point that out, y'all.

I can’t tell if you’re trolling. Golden’s golden enough to not give away info in the host post. And anyway, that very thing you’re talking about could just pertain to the fact that there was no kill. So, useless anyway.

My host philosophy - my interaction is a deliberate mindfuck - if you read into it it could be to your benefit or your detriment. I'm probably rare, but it actually irritates me when people won't interact as hosts or deadies, and I actively dislike hosts who won't answer questions to all in thread and interact with their players. Coming to this site is supposed to be fun. It's not a maths exam. Heck, where I came from, reading the host posts could provide you with game information - and to me thats entirely fair play because hosts put in effort to writing the posts and want you to read them, and the information was equal for all factions. In addition, you'd banter with the host, and that was fine - the host should want EVERY player to try their best, and I think having banter with your players keeps them engaged and hoping to succeed.

If Golden the host says of the mafia team failing to perform their kill, "as it happened, they never showed up at all" then I'm gonna take it to mean there is a possibility that the mafia team did not submit a kill. Or it could be any other factor that might prevent a kill. My only point is that this may be an indication of a missed kill attempt. Or it may not be. we don't know. I want us to consider all possibilities.

Doubt it. Golden mentioned back in one of the tribe threads that his host posts aren't meant to be indicative of anything.

[Sloonei]

I would like to see [mention]insertnamehere[/mention] give us a case on somebody other than wilgy. He's right that this thread needs a shot in the arm. The floor is his to start the ball on a different case.

Not spacedaisy either. Because I'm still not voting her way.

[Quin]

The host post mentions a mafia team failing to show up. I'm just tryna point that out, y'all.

I can’t tell if you’re trolling. Golden’s golden enough to not give away info in the host post. And anyway, that very thing you’re talking about could just pertain to the fact that there was no kill. So, useless anyway.

My host philosophy - my interaction is a deliberate mindfuck - if you read into it it could be to your benefit or your detriment. I'm probably rare, but it actually irritates me when people won't interact as hosts or deadies, and I actively dislike hosts who won't answer questions to all in thread and interact with their players. Coming to this site is supposed to be fun. It's not a maths exam. Heck, where I came from, reading the host posts could provide you with game information - and to me thats entirely fair play because hosts put in effort to writing the posts and want you to read them, and the information was equal for all factions. In addition, you'd banter with the host, and that was fine - the host should want EVERY player to try their best, and I think having banter with your players keeps them engaged and hoping to succeed.

If Golden the host says of the mafia team failing to perform their kill, "as it happened, they never showed up at all" then I'm gonna take it to mean there is a possibility that the mafia team did not submit a kill. Or it could be any other factor that might prevent a kill. My only point is that this may be an indication of a missed kill attempt. Or it may not be. we don't know. I want us to consider all possibilities.

Doubt it. Golden mentioned back in one of the tribe threads that his host posts aren't meant to be indicative of anything.

nevermind. i misinterpreted it. he was talking about getting inspiration from players to put in the EoD posts. still doubt these posts indicate anything tho.

[Sloonei]

The host post mentions a mafia team failing to show up. I'm just tryna point that out, y'all.

I can’t tell if you’re trolling. Golden’s golden enough to not give away info in the host post. And anyway, that very thing you’re talking about could just pertain to the fact that there was no kill. So, useless anyway.

My host philosophy - my interaction is a deliberate mindfuck - if you read into it it could be to your benefit or your detriment. I'm probably rare, but it actually irritates me when people won't interact as hosts or deadies, and I actively dislike hosts who won't answer questions to all in thread and interact with their players. Coming to this site is supposed to be fun. It's not a maths exam. Heck, where I came from, reading the host posts could provide you with game information - and to me thats entirely fair play because hosts put in effort to writing the posts and want you to read them, and the information was equal for all factions. In addition, you'd banter with the host, and that was fine - the host should want EVERY player to try their best, and I think having banter with your players keeps them engaged and hoping to succeed.

If Golden the host says of the mafia team failing to perform their kill, "as it happened, they never showed up at all" then I'm gonna take it to mean there is a possibility that the mafia team did not submit a kill. Or it could be any other factor that might prevent a kill. My only point is that this may be an indication of a missed kill attempt. Or it may not be. we don't know. I want us to consider all possibilities.

Doubt it. Golden mentioned back in one of the tribe threads that his host posts aren't meant to be indicative of anything.

nevermind. i misinterpreted it. he was talking about getting inspiration from players to put in the EoD posts. still doubt these posts indicate anything tho.

I just dug through all his posts to find what you were talking about and was gonna say this.

Also I got distracted in the middle of this activity because I got a random email notifcation on my phone at 1:30 in the morning from one of the Canadian grad schools I applied to letting me know I've been accepted. This is the closest I've come to actually being a canadian.

[Quin]

The host post mentions a mafia team failing to show up. I'm just tryna point that out, y'all.

I can’t tell if you’re trolling. Golden’s golden enough to not give away info in the host post. And anyway, that very thing you’re talking about could just pertain to the fact that there was no kill. So, useless anyway.

My host philosophy - my interaction is a deliberate mindfuck - if you read into it it could be to your benefit or your detriment. I'm probably rare, but it actually irritates me when people won't interact as hosts or deadies, and I actively dislike hosts who won't answer questions to all in thread and interact with their players. Coming to this site is supposed to be fun. It's not a maths exam. Heck, where I came from, reading the host posts could provide you with game information - and to me thats entirely fair play because hosts put in effort to writing the posts and want you to read them, and the information was equal for all factions. In addition, you'd banter with the host, and that was fine - the host should want EVERY player to try their best, and I think having banter with your players keeps them engaged and hoping to succeed.

If Golden the host says of the mafia team failing to perform their kill, "as it happened, they never showed up at all" then I'm gonna take it to mean there is a possibility that the mafia team did not submit a kill. Or it could be any other factor that might prevent a kill. My only point is that this may be an indication of a missed kill attempt. Or it may not be. we don't know. I want us to consider all possibilities.

Doubt it. Golden mentioned back in one of the tribe threads that his host posts aren't meant to be indicative of anything.

nevermind. i misinterpreted it. he was talking about getting inspiration from players to put in the EoD posts. still doubt these posts indicate anything tho.

I just dug through all his posts to find what you were talking about and was gonna say this.

Also I got distracted in the middle of this activity because I got a random email notifcation on my phone at 1:30 in the morning from one of the Canadian grad schools I applied to letting me know I've been accepted. This is the closest I've come to actually being a canadian.

Ginger is going to be so excited. And the other one, probably.

[Sloonei]

Her tail is wagging.

[Dom]

Half of me: inh is def civ after that post

the other half of me: why does inh only show up when someone calls his name?

[S~V~S]

Spoiler: show

And here is the Epignosis Credit Report (which is not a rainbow list):

People with full credibility:

Sloonei - Called for Marmot's head, and has looked exactly as I would expect, if slightly less talkative.
Quin - speedchuck was adamant Quin was good, and until I see evidence to the contrary, I'll respect that.

People with some credibility:

Dom - Called out Long Con, but suspects me.
DDL - I need see something more out of you, but I still take you for a civilian.
Scotty - I had viewed Scotty as good based on his activity in my earliest interactions with him, but now I'm not so sure.
Spacedaisy - This is pending DrWilgy's death as a bad boy. She took a hard stance on a tough character, and I'm cool with that. Hell, even if Wilgy shows up civilian, I'm cool keeping Spacedaisy here.

People with no credibility:

DharmaHelper - On a new life, and his DrWilgy / speedchuck back-and-forth looked like an act to me.
nijuukyugou - Drunken whore.
Boomslang - Drunken whoremonger.
colonialbob - New role and the old role didn't look good anyway.
DrWilgy -
insertnamehere - JackofHearts2005 was against him most of the way.
sig - ditto
Lorab - Nothing she's done or has not done, but new role.
S~V~S - ditto, plus the opinions don't sound logical, and so they seem forced to me.
Kylemii - I have nothing against him, but I have nothing in his favor either. Also maybe whores.

I am the only person to say anything that was actually true the last several days(except Quin, he did too) and *I* don't sound logical.

Rude.

@DDL I like it, too.

You have given your opinion on what I think, and said negative things about them.

So I will not hesitate to say what you have said isn't logical. It isn't rude. It's business.

Express whatever you like.

I will either agree with it or call it bunk. Get over it Ms. Sensitive.

.

"Rude" was a joke, mainly for Juliets. It was a Dutchie thing. Sorry, it had not occurred to me that you did not have enough history with them to get it.

Spoiler: show

Please allow me to have my S~V~S moment of Atticus Finch'ing Wilgy before he gets decisively sold down the river.

Hey why are we all on wilgy now? This thread seems just be barreling down the path of least resistance right now. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, but there's not a whole lot of critical discussion going on here. What's more fun and exciting than sound critical discussion?

This is the post that I keep coming back to. This here thread's hella flighty, going after, as Sloonei says, the path of least resistance.

That's because of a strange contradiction which is occupying this game. Despite having successfully killed multiple mafia members, no one's actually acting like they know what's going on. People aren't really extrapolating things from flips. Instead, we're going with gut reads and flights of fancy. Except, of course, when an act of bizzarity like the whole Speedchuck conundrum pops up, which, to be honest, would have gotten him lynched in whatever game it happened in.

It's hard to pinpoint the root cause of this passivity and confused malaise, *COUGH*CHICKACHIKAMECHANICS*COUGH* but we can see it displayed in full force with the case against the good honorable Doctor Wilgy, who, let's be honest, is definitely gonna be lynched today.

SYNDICATE CRIME STORY

THE PEOPLE VS. DOCTOR WILGY

1. "META"

Spacedaisy's argument which more or less kicked this whole thing off centered around her belief in a simple dichotomy between the good, civilian DrWilgy, and the evil, scummy Mr. Hyde DrWilgy. Good Wilgy is zany, irrelevant, and usually actively self-sabotaging. We've all seen DrWilgy in games before, acting like some kind of madman, randomly interjecting nonsensical asides into the thread. It's what he's known for. He's a successor to the previous King of Irreverence, [mention]Vompatti[/mention]. (RIP) That, according to Daisy, is the "civ" Wilgy.

Meanwhile, there ostensibly exists a second doppelganger-esque version of Wilgy which lies in wait, exhibiting such maniacal stratagems as "logic," and "effort" to stymy people into believing he's civilian, when really he's a dirty, rotten scummeister.

Basically, "weird" Wilgy = civ, and "intelligent" Wilgy = scum.

That's a pretty bullshit meta case, even by the low standards of meta cases. Assuming that this is true impugns the good Doctor's character. Who are we, who presume to know what lies in the mind of Wilgy? This is the Game of Champions, and despite a sluggish start, I'd expect everyone to bring their A-game. (Even though I myself have faltered at this due to hosting obligations.) It's a dumb, reductive, and certainly not flattering case that throws context out the window. Furthermore, and this is just my opinion, I'd rather play with a persuasive, involved, comprehensible version of Wilgy than the fountain of wackiness. Enthusiastically agreeing with this meta case seems like a way to message to Wilgy that he should be less involved in games, because people will just assume that he's, y'know, trying because he's bad, and not because he just enjoys playing.

Bleh.

2. "PREVIOUS ROLE"

As far as I can gather, and this has kinda been my pet theory from the start, roles don't actually come with a pre-defined alignment. S~V~S was the literal plague, and she's a strong civ read for me.

It seems to me that if you suspect Wilgy because of his previous role, you must also view everyone else through that lens. No cherrypicking who "it makes sense for." For me, that has too many repurcussions that contradict my views.

3. "THE SPRITYO KILL"

Really, Sloonei has been the only one beating this drum, and I have to give him credit for it. This reason's way stronger than the first two, mainly due to its reliance on facts.

FACT: Sprityo was killed Night 8 on the Pikachu Tribe after the wacky swap.

FACT: It must have been (at least) one of the following eight people - Sloonei, Kylemii, Spacedaisy, Scotty, DharmaHelper, Epignosis, Sprityo himself, or DrWilgy. (At least) one of those eight people is a moiderer.

This is where things get all subjective-y, but I've personally had more reason to suspect Daisy, Scotty, and DH than Wilgy. Interesting how they all seem to be funneling onto him today. I don't jive with Sloonei's POE reasoning, and if you suspect any of the other eight people, you don't either.

4. "DAMMIT, GOLDEN, YOU REALLY COULDN'T FIND A FRIGGIN' REPLACEMENT FOR THE GAME OF CHAMPIONS?"

This is the unescapable reality which will dictate why he'll probably be lynched today. DrWilgy has a ton of shit going on in his life currently, and cannot participate in the thread or lend to discussion very much. He popped back up during on March 21st, and has posted a couple of times since then, but overall does not seem to be stepping up his participation. Wilgy has gots to do what Wilgy has gots to do.

All that makes him an uber-easy target. No resistance, no pushback. All you have to do is sigh and go, "Wilgy, I guess," and everyone will nod their head in understanding. And that's why he's gonna be lynched today. Not because of any solid reasoning. Because he's the easiest option, the path of least resistance.

My fellow Champions, why must it be that way? Can we please all, including the poor old Doctor Wilgy, find in our hearts to try and do better than this?

Hell, lynch me for posting a large, rambling, nonsensical post passionately defending an inactive player without really providing a strong alternative! At least that's an actual reason for suspicion.

.

INH, you are my hero (even if you think I am nonsensical and rambling, which let's be honest, can indeed be true). I agree, I was fairly confused that there weren't more waving pitchforks at Chuck after LC's flip, but before the role reveal.

I voted for Wilgy Train #1 due to Daisys case (and I felt good about her, but she tends to be so dispassionate in games, that she fools me~ I would like to know why you think she is bad) as well as the replacement thing.

I agree with you that anyone that uses the first role flip as an excuse to suspect anyone goes WAAAAY up on the SuspicioMeter for me. My first thought when I looked at my role was, "Golden, y u do this to me??" But in retrospect it was a good thing cause it forced me to civ and it gave me a diagnostic tool. Anyone who says they are voting someone because their first role "sounds" bad, but has not voted for me, gets side eye from me, and should from everyone. I am unabashedly using my first role as a litmus test.

The "8 Little Indians" theory I dismiss out of hand, it's too speculative and relies on things like, "well 5 of the other 6 are people I have good feels about" from Mr Secretive when I have some opposing feels.

I basically gave the shortened version of the Wilgy case in my vote. There's not a whole lot to it unless we want to get into the specifics of every read on every player in the game.

If we assume that mafia nightkills are restricted to players in the same tribe as their killers, as was the case for all night actions during the tribal phase, then somebody who was in the Pikachu tribe last night killed sprityo. We can rule out sprityo himself because duh. The reamining five players, myself excluded, happen to be my five strongest town reads in the game at the moment (Kyle, scotty, daisy, epi, dh). That leaves DrWilgy as the lone suspect in a small pool of players from which to choose.

I understand that to simply gloss over 5 critical reads without any explanation isn't entirely satisfying, but I have my reasons and most of them are in one of the two other threads already. I don't care to go into them unless somebody has an argument for lynching any of those players.

I am going to make you sad and toss the Gilded Aubergine at Wilgy again because he is not going to play, and won't be replaced, and it will tell us quite a lot. It will help me (and you, I think) sort out your thoughts on the Fab Five trusted players, and about Sloonei. If Wilgy ends up being a killer, then I feel way lots better about some folks. If not, then I see many more giant, pointless rambling posts in my future (hopefully you do, too).

I also still like Daisys case a bit becasue I honestly think *Daisy* believed it to be true. She sounded sincere and put more effort into it than I would expect bad Daisy to do. She also got a tad snippy when someone questioned her about something deep in the bowels of Cerberus, and I associate that with Good Daisy as opposed to bad Daisy.

But as I said above, if you have more thoughts on Daisy, I would be happy to hear them.

Also, what are your thoughts on Niju? She said very little while I was in Cerberus, and all I recall from here here was a vote based on, "OMG his role sounds bad" to which I replied something like "WTF". She most def fails my litmus test there.

And I know you were carrying a torch (and a pitchfork) for sig. I have mixed feels for him; are you still carrying that torch?

*Vote Dr Wilgy*

I will check back during the day to see if any alternatives form, but at this point, if Wilgy isn't playing anyhow, his flip will help me decide how I feel about others.

[juliets]

"Rude" was a joke, mainly for Juliets. It was a Dutchie thing. Sorry, it had not occurred to me that you did not have enough history with them to get it.

Thanks for the laugh!

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Should I be expected to do all the work for you Kyle? His decent reads/hunting for baddies, SVS's posts to name just two factors of many. The Chuck vote reeks of mafia involvement.

Uh, yes? If you are accusing someone of overlooking evidence, you should at very least point at what evidence they are overlooking.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Guys if you are going to cite SVS posts as evidence of Speed's alignment it means you still think Speed is bad.

Just saying.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Like DH is accusing people of voting for Speed and not listening to SVS.

Except SVS believed (and probably stilldoes) that Speed was bad.

So this logic is just stupid.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I like SVS, Epi, DDL

I don't like DH last minute switch from Wilgy to Speed with such little reasoning when he was so adamant on leaving Speed alive, very strange progression.

I would say the same about DDL, but outside of that he looks good.

Sloonie is looking very meh to me. He was a civ than mafia than back to civ and now he's leaning back into the mafia camp. I just can't decide what to think about him.

Bloober pinged me awhile back, but I can't remember why.
Lorab, Scotty, and Sprityo are all civ leans/independent.

I'll probably vote for Wilgy.

Didn't we figure out refrigerator has to be Quin? If that's the case do we believe that's a mafia role. It doesn't seem that civvie, however we have had curse roles that are held by a civ this past year.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Please allow me to have my S~V~S moment of Atticus Finch'ing Wilgy before he gets decisively sold down the river.

Hey why are we all on wilgy now? This thread seems just be barreling down the path of least resistance right now. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, but there's not a whole lot of critical discussion going on here. What's more fun and exciting than sound critical discussion?

This is the post that I keep coming back to. This here thread's hella flighty, going after, as Sloonei says, the path of least resistance.

That's because of a strange contradiction which is occupying this game. Despite having successfully killed multiple mafia members, no one's actually acting like they know what's going on. People aren't really extrapolating things from flips. Instead, we're going with gut reads and flights of fancy. Except, of course, when an act of bizzarity like the whole Speedchuck conundrum pops up, which, to be honest, would have gotten him lynched in whatever game it happened in.

It's hard to pinpoint the root cause of this passivity and confused malaise, *COUGH*CHICKACHIKAMECHANICS*COUGH* but we can see it displayed in full force with the case against the good honorable Doctor Wilgy, who, let's be honest, is definitely gonna be lynched today.

SYNDICATE CRIME STORY

THE PEOPLE VS. DOCTOR WILGY

1. "META"

Spacedaisy's argument which more or less kicked this whole thing off centered around her belief in a simple dichotomy between the good, civilian DrWilgy, and the evil, scummy Mr. Hyde DrWilgy. Good Wilgy is zany, irrelevant, and usually actively self-sabotaging. We've all seen DrWilgy in games before, acting like some kind of madman, randomly interjecting nonsensical asides into the thread. It's what he's known for. He's a successor to the previous King of Irreverence, Vompatti. (RIP) That, according to Daisy, is the "civ" Wilgy.

Meanwhile, there ostensibly exists a second doppelganger-esque version of Wilgy which lies in wait, exhibiting such maniacal stratagems as "logic," and "effort" to stymy people into believing he's civilian, when really he's a dirty, rotten scummeister.

Basically, "weird" Wilgy = civ, and "intelligent" Wilgy = scum.

That's a pretty bullshit meta case, even by the low standards of meta cases. Assuming that this is true impugns the good Doctor's character. Who are we, who presume to know what lies in the mind of Wilgy? This is the Game of Champions, and despite a sluggish start, I'd expect everyone to bring their A-game. (Even though I myself have faltered at this due to hosting obligations.) It's a dumb, reductive, and certainly not flattering case that throws context out the window. Furthermore, and this is just my opinion, I'd rather play with a persuasive, involved, comprehensible version of Wilgy than the fountain of wackiness. Enthusiastically agreeing with this meta case seems like a way to message to Wilgy that he should be less involved in games, because people will just assume that he's, y'know, trying because he's bad, and not because he just enjoys playing.

Bleh.

2. "PREVIOUS ROLE"

As far as I can gather, and this has kinda been my pet theory from the start, roles don't actually come with a pre-defined alignment. S~V~S was the literal plague, and she's a strong civ read for me.

It seems to me that if you suspect Wilgy because of his previous role, you must also view everyone else through that lens. No cherrypicking who "it makes sense for." For me, that has too many repurcussions that contradict my views.

3. "THE SPRITYO KILL"

Really, Sloonei has been the only one beating this drum, and I have to give him credit for it. This reason's way stronger than the first two, mainly due to its reliance on facts.

FACT: Sprityo was killed Night 8 on the Pikachu Tribe after the wacky swap.

FACT: It must have been (at least) one of the following eight people - Sloonei, Kylemii, Spacedaisy, Scotty, DharmaHelper, Epignosis, Sprityo himself, or DrWilgy. (At least) one of those eight people is a moiderer.

This is where things get all subjective-y, but I've personally had more reason to suspect Daisy, Scotty, and DH than Wilgy. Interesting how they all seem to be funneling onto him today. I don't jive with Sloonei's POE reasoning, and if you suspect any of the other eight people, you don't either.

4. "DAMMIT, GOLDEN, YOU REALLY COULDN'T FIND A FRIGGIN' REPLACEMENT FOR THE GAME OF CHAMPIONS?"

This is the unescapable reality which will dictate why he'll probably be lynched today. DrWilgy has a ton of shit going on in his life currently, and cannot participate in the thread or lend to discussion very much. He popped back up during on March 21st, and has posted a couple of times since then, but overall does not seem to be stepping up his participation. Wilgy has gots to do what Wilgy has gots to do.

All that makes him an uber-easy target. No resistance, no pushback. All you have to do is sigh and go, "Wilgy, I guess," and everyone will nod their head in understanding. And that's why he's gonna be lynched today. Not because of any solid reasoning. Because he's the easiest option, the path of least resistance.

My fellow Champions, why must it be that way? Can we please all, including the poor old Doctor Wilgy, find in our hearts to try and do better than this?

Hell, lynch me for posting a large, rambling, nonsensical post passionately defending an inactive player without really providing a strong alternative! At least that's an actual reason for suspicion.

I halfway agree with everything you say, but like... why not lynching Wilgy? We have more dead scum than town, Wilgy isn't playing and all reasons for lynching him seems plausible. Feels like we gotta get this page turned before moving on.

[S~V~S]

Like DH is accusing people of voting for Speed and not listening to SVS.

Except SVS believed (and probably stilldoes) that Speed was bad.

So this logic is just stupid.

Excuse me? Stupid how? Agreeing with me?

And what it the difference between "player salad" and a list of reads? Would you find it less salad-y had he done it in pretty colors descending from green to red?

Not every list of reads is a player salad. Sometimes they are a list of reads. Calling every list of reads a player salad is disingenuous. Although except for his read on me, and his "meh" on Sloonei I don't agree with sig on much. But his reads seem to be based on outdated info, and he has apparently missed some fairly big points that have been made in thread. That reads to me as "sig being sig" as opposed to "sig being kept up to date by evil teammates in a chatroom".

[Dragon D. Luffy]

[VOTE: Wilgy[] aubergine

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Like DH is accusing people of voting for Speed and not listening to SVS.

Except SVS believed (and probably stilldoes) that Speed was bad.

So this logic is just stupid.

Excuse me? Stupid how? Agreeing with me?

And what it the difference between "player salad" and a list of reads? Would you find it less salad-y had he done it in pretty colors descending from green to red?

Not every list of reads is a player salad. Sometimes they are a list of reads. Calling every list of reads a player salad is disingenuous. Although except for his read on me, and his "meh" on Sloonei I don't agree with sig on much. But his reads seem to be based on outdated info, and he has apparently missed some fairly big points that have been made in thread. That reads to me as "sig being sig" as opposed to "sig being kept up to date by evil teammates in a chatroom".

Accusing people of not using your logic to defend the opposite thing you were defending.

And call me disingenuous if you want. I don't like how Sig's post has a bunch of thoughts on random people then ends with "maybe I'll vote Wilgy aka the guy who currently has a million votes"

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Like you say Speed was bad. DH's case on Kyle is that Kyle failed to consider your points of Speed being a civ.

[S~V~S]

Like DH is accusing people of voting for Speed and not listening to SVS.

Except SVS believed (and probably stilldoes) that Speed was bad.

So this logic is just stupid.

Excuse me? Stupid how? Agreeing with me?

And what it the difference between "player salad" and a list of reads? Would you find it less salad-y had he done it in pretty colors descending from green to red?

Not every list of reads is a player salad. Sometimes they are a list of reads. Calling every list of reads a player salad is disingenuous. Although except for his read on me, and his "meh" on Sloonei I don't agree with sig on much. But his reads seem to be based on outdated info, and he has apparently missed some fairly big points that have been made in thread. That reads to me as "sig being sig" as opposed to "sig being kept up to date by evil teammates in a chatroom".

Accusing people of not using your logic to defend the opposite thing you were defending.

And call me disingenuous if you want. I don't like how Sig's post has a bunch of thoughts on random people then ends with "maybe I'll vote Wilgy aka the guy who currently has a million votes"

Re logic stc., gotcha.

No I agree; I personally just tend to find sig wildly suspect all the time, so I tend to be leery of sigwagons on sig being sig. It's why I wanted to see INHs current thoughts on sig. His case had somewhat more substance, and I thought sig seemed to be paying attention more in Cerberus than he is currently.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Alright, [mention]sprityo[/mention] let's do it.

G-Man's Technicolor Vote Analysis.

Day 10

Spoiler: show

DDL - Speed
DH - Speed
Epi - Bob
Sloonei - Wilgy
Scotty - Speed
Sig - Speed
INH - Speed
Speed - Speed
sprityo - Speed
Epi - Wilgy
Dom - Speed
Quin - Wilgy
DDL - Wilgy
DH - Wilgy
Lorab - Wilgy
Speed - Wilgy
Blooper - Wilgy
Kyle - Speed
DDL - Speed
SVS - Speed
DH - Speed
Bob - Speed
Boomslang - Wilgy

DDL
DH
Epi
Sloonei
Scotty
Sig
INH
Speed
sprityo
Epi
Dom
Quin
DDL
DH
Lorab
Speed
Blooper
Kyle
DDL
SV
DH
Bob
Boomslang

KEY

Speed - Green
Wilgy - Orange
Other - White

Eh I don't know what to conclude here. I like to do these things when we have a confirmed baddie among the most voted. Here we have a confirmed civ and an unknown.

You can see the wagons here, namely a Speed one, then the Wilgy one, then the new Speed one, but I'm afraid of calling anyone in them civ or bad based on it.

Any thoughts, sprityo?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

No I agree; I personally just tend to find sig wildly suspect all the time, so I tend to be leery of sigwagons on sig being sig. It's why I wanted to see INHs current thoughts on sig. His case had somewhat more substance, and I thought sig seemed to be paying attention more in Cerberus than he is currently.

Oh I share that sentiment, but I'll still call out Sig on saying pingy stuff whenever I see it.

[colonialbob]

Like DH is accusing people of voting for Speed and not listening to SVS.

Except SVS believed (and probably stilldoes) that Speed was bad.

So this logic is just stupid.

I already said that

[colonialbob]

PS I'm voting for the next person who quotes inh's Atticus impression. Stop it.

(It's good stuff but it was long enough the first time without putting it in quote blocks)

[colonialbob]

Like you say Speed was bad. DH's case on Kyle is that Kyle failed to consider your points of Speed being a civ.

Oh nevermind you said something slightly different. But also true.

[sprityo]

Alright, @sprityo let's do it.

G-Man's Technicolor Vote Analysis.

Day 10

Spoiler: show

DDL - Speed
DH - Speed
Epi - Bob
Sloonei - Wilgy
Scotty - Speed
Sig - Speed
INH - Speed
Speed - Speed
sprityo - Speed
Epi - Wilgy
Dom - Speed
Quin - Wilgy
DDL - Wilgy
DH - Wilgy
Lorab - Wilgy
Speed - Wilgy
Blooper - Wilgy
Kyle - Speed
DDL - Speed
SVS - Speed
DH - Speed
Bob - Speed
Boomslang - Wilgy

DDL
DH
Epi
Sloonei
Scotty
Sig
INH
Speed
sprityo
Epi
Dom
Quin
DDL
DH
Lorab
Speed
Blooper
Kyle
DDL
SV
DH
Bob
Boomslang

KEY

Speed - Green
Wilgy - Orange
Other - White

Eh I don't know what to conclude here. I like to do these things when we have a confirmed baddie among the most voted. Here we have a confirmed civ and an unknown.

You can see the wagons here, namely a Speed one, then the Wilgy one, then the new Speed one, but I'm afraid of calling anyone in them civ or bad based on it.

Any thoughts, sprityo?

By the time the second group of players formed the trains were about tied. The only people to switch votes from Wilgy to speed were DH and DDL. I think if we poke around the second group of voters we might have something

[colonialbob]

Spoiler: show

Alright, @sprityo let's do it.

G-Man's Technicolor Vote Analysis.

Day 10

Spoiler: show

DDL - Speed
DH - Speed
Epi - Bob
Sloonei - Wilgy
Scotty - Speed
Sig - Speed
INH - Speed
Speed - Speed
sprityo - Speed
Epi - Wilgy
Dom - Speed
Quin - Wilgy
DDL - Wilgy
DH - Wilgy
Lorab - Wilgy
Speed - Wilgy
Blooper - Wilgy
Kyle - Speed
DDL - Speed
SVS - Speed
DH - Speed
Bob - Speed
Boomslang - Wilgy

DDL
DH
Epi
Sloonei
Scotty
Sig
INH
Speed
sprityo
Epi
Dom
Quin
DDL
DH
Lorab
Speed
Blooper
Kyle
DDL
SV
DH
Bob
Boomslang

KEY

Speed - Green
Wilgy - Orange
Other - White

Eh I don't know what to conclude here. I like to do these things when we have a confirmed baddie among the most voted. Here we have a confirmed civ and an unknown.

You can see the wagons here, namely a Speed one, then the Wilgy one, then the new Speed one, but I'm afraid of calling anyone in them civ or bad based on it.

Any thoughts, sprityo?

By the time the second group of players formed the trains were about tied. The only people to switch votes from Wilgy to speed were DH and DDL. I think if we poke around the second group of voters we might have something

Aren't you presupposing Wilgy's guilt here?

[DharmaHelper]

This is a haiku
Good Luck hunting the baddies
this was a haiku

[DharmaHelper]

"But I'm leading the town"

Dom is correct here
I am leading the town, obv.
The baddies fear me

[DharmaHelper]

Have we tried to lynch
someone under the Haiku
Charlie's role was false.

[Kylemii]

Have we tried to lynch
someone under the Haiku
Charlie's role was false.

how are those things related

[DharmaHelper]

Have we tried to lynch
someone under the Haiku
Charlie's role was false.

how are those things related

Tough to know for sure
I just wanted to bring up
Something, I was bored.

[colonialbob]

Have we tried to lynch
someone under the Haiku
Charlie's role was false.

Are you volunteering?

[DharmaHelper]

Have we tried to lynch
someone under the Haiku
Charlie's role was false.

Are you volunteering?

Hey I might as well
No one seems to really care
For things that aren't Doc.

[DharmaHelper]

Im just curious
Was mine the only role yet
to have flipped 'nilla?

[LoRab]

Aubergine is tasty. I am voting Wilgy.

[DharmaHelper]

Baddies will cower
Behind the Doc Vote Today
No reason to discuss

[Scotty]

Below I will summarize some of Boomslang's posts in a neat little package with a bow.

Spoiler: show

The orange is my summing up of his thoughts

DAY 1

I gut like sig because his thoughts on the button and haiku posting agree with my own. Mildly concerned about G-man given his one post with no effort to either contribute or explain an absence.

sig looks good. Also so does GMan, who isnt even playing the game lol

3 hours later.....
sig wrote:
Plus I'm about 70% sure I submitted a haiku and it's very disappointing nobody followed up and answered when I asked if they did.

Ok, what's this "70% sure" crap? You either did or you didn't, and you should be able to check your PMs to verify either way. Also, I must not count as anybody, because I definitely responded in the affirmative about the haiku.

jk, sig is bad. look.

20 minutes later, and a few minutes before deadline...

Running out of time. Sig hasn't changed his self-vote and hasn't explained that cryptic 70% comment. Although he hasn't shown up, Jack also isn't creating confusion in thread. So voting sig. [VOTE: SIG] aubergine

yeah sig is vote worthy and I'm sticking to it. Also jack is not being confusing.


DAY 2

Ok, all caught up. I don't like Sig's explanation of the haiku confusion on a personal level, but I guess that's a playstyle disagreement. Not going to push it when we have juicy nightkill responses to make.

I wasn't involved in killing Blooper, but I strongly suspect that whoever did kill her is laughing their asses off at the WIFOM they just created. I'm betting it's one of the older players who understands the couples meta. Coupled with sig's good point about a ballsy scum team being willing to NK their own for the wifom...

Marmot needs to show up and give us something to chew on. Wilgy has also been super blendy so far. About the only thing we've gotten from him is some gentle needling of Sloonei based on a point made by Scotty. And a cryptic comment about Kyle — why is he a "hero and patriot" for voting Blooper?

I also have an eyeball on Lorab right now. "Ugh. I have no idea where to vote. I don't actually suspect anyone" at the end of Day 1 is so noncommittal, then she votes Sloonei for "peer pressure" and the active voices in the thread don't really get on her for that lack of reasoning. She then jumps in, first post of Day 2, to begin the WIFOM about me and the Blooper kill.

Sig is bad, maybe, or i just don't agree with him but not gonna push for him.

lol I didn't kill my SO, guys. that would be so ballsy...and WIFOMy...plus SIG made a good point, and I mean I trust the guy...

Marmot's uh not...around...but hey, WILGY is also not around and people bring up good points about him! He's probably suspicious!

LoRab is non-committal (hey, that's basically what Scotty said recently at this point)



15 minutes before EoD...
nijuukyugou wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:12 pm
To be fair, this is actually the stuff he gets worked up about IRL

She's not wrong, you know :P Also, in your linki roundup of people, you didn't mention a leading suspect: me. What do you think of me anyway, old sport?

hey girl hey, whatchu think of me?

Vote Nijuukyugou aubergine

BOOM goes the dynamite! Even though I've never really mentioned you or interacted with you at all this game, take a vote!


DAY 3

My vote for Blooper was primarily an attempt to get a real read of me from her, which she has still yet to provide. I was concerned when she failed to engage with me in her big roundup of suspects (Sloon, Sig, Lorab), given the shade others have been throwing my way in the thread. I also didn't like the little seed she planted about no one being bad in the tribe, which feels demoralizing to those of us actually hunting.

even though I was one of the last to vote, I decided to put a useless vote on someone I had not recently talked about so I could come in later and explain it away. Also I didn’t want to add to the other trains of Wilgy, LoRab annd sig. all of whom I’ve suspected before but don’t anymore lol

Marmot wrote: ↑ Boomslang, who're you voting for today?

Why do you require a read on yourself from nijuu?

Still not 100% sure, but I could get behind a Wilgy vote. Based on posting patterns, I'm guessing either that he's bluffing or that Scotty/Blooper got a silence as their second role. I already didn't like his comment about killing himself before Bloops, and his response to my analysis of JoH was weird. He said I'd thought about Jack more than he had, then never responded why he thought Jack was good himself.

Therefore, I think a WIlgy lynch would give us good information. Imo, there's a not insignficant chance that he's bad, and if he's not, then I think we get valuable intel about Scotty/Blooper's targeting thoughts.

As for wanting Blooper's read on me? All in good time, my marmot.

Wilgy is bad, even though I didn’t vote for him last phase to tie him with sig. He hasn’t talked, SK he’s either faking it or silenced, like many other people already said earlier today. Even though blooper never responded to me even though I randomly voted her yesterday (which was my master plan with that vote anyway lol), I think Wilgy getting lynched is our best option today.

If he’s bad, and he maybe definitely is, then he’s bad. But if he’s good, we can learn so much about the possibility of the silencer’s thoughts! It’s a win win!

Oh, and remember when I was prodding blooper for her read on me, Marmotfriend? Like Don’t even worry about that right now lmao

Kylemii wrote: ↑ idk, i've voting for boomslang. he's my bishopdom toga right now and Buggers have to enthrall to work. i have the next two Spacedaisy off so chorea jaundiced get more time to get porringer hands dirty uncivilized

aubergine vote boomslang

Well, this is helpful. I love that you've posted roughly as much while insanified as during the previous two day/night periods combined... I also have trouble seeing this vote is anything other than a "NO U" after I called you out about the Wilgy thing.

hi guys it’s me, slang. I’m gonna criticize kyle’s post count even though I still have the lowest amount ftw.

Well, I'm not going to immediately NO U Kyle's NO U as a matter of principle. Putting a vote on Wilgy; let's see what happens.
vote DrWilgy aubergine

kyle No U’d me, and I won’t do the same. Wilgy lynch maybe? Weeeeeeeeee


DAY 4

Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:21 pm
insertnamehere wrote: ↑Tue Mar 06, 2018 6:16 pm
Sloonei wrote: ↑Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:52 pm
@insertnamehere @Marmot whatcha gonna do with them votes?
Nothin', as I think both Boomslang and Wilgy are civilians. I ain't choosing to be complicit in this shit.
Even if it means our tribe fails to lynch yet again?

Why are you so fixated on this? If people haven't achieved reliable consensus, why force their hand, especially when the other tribe seems to be chugging along just fine? If we go into the merge with most of our tribe, we have that entire background of play to inform our choices in later game.

I don't know why you people want lynches over here! So what if it's the best weapon civilians have at hand? The other tribe should have all the lynches, even though at this point no one has had their alignment revealed. Plus, when we merge...uh...we can look back on our time and be like 'hey, I feel informed' even though we have no information on our side whatsoever.

Scotty wrote: ↑Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:48 pm
K. Two viable trains now on wilgy or Boomslang. I won’t be around for the next hour so unless something exciting happens, I’m hoping it lands on one of Boom or Wilgy.

I would petition for boom, since I know he’s been in the thread (I’ve seen him active throughout the day) and he hasn’t really defended himself to my liking nor has he really made a conscious effort to find baddies.

Godspeed. Let’s lynch someone

I've been checking in periodically so I'm not completely screwed when I actually have time to catch up. My real life deadlines have been terrible, and I have to leave in like 5 to cover a forum on school shootings, so please forgive my distraction.

Vote Wilgy aubergine because I'm not going down to Sloonei's thread bullying yet, and unlike INH, I do think he's bad.

Sloonei has petitioned the thread to vote for one of the prevailing trains- me or Wilgy. Well, I'm not gonna give in to his bullying, dammit! I'm gonna vote for Wilgy! (Mostly to save myself but like he's bad though)


DAY 5

Marmot wrote: ↑Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:24 pm
Boomslang wrote: ↑Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:39 pm
Marmot wrote: ↑Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:59 pm
Boomslang, who're you voting for today?

Why do you require a read on yourself from nijuu?
As for wanting Blooper's read on me? All in good time, my marmot.
linki: There it is! Much obliged.
I'll still take that reason for wanting a read from Blooper that you promised.

It's pretty simple — I was a prime suspect, and I wanted to see if she would take that opportunity to jump on the wagon. I like that she didn't, both for obvious reasons and for the larger reason that she's choosing to engage with the thread beyond the surface level.

I said voted for her in order to get her attention. I didn't get her attention, not really, but I easily moved on because what I really want to see was if she jumped on my wagon. So she good, G.

I feel like ignoring revealed information is a dangerous approach. While I don't think the mods are necessarily going to give away alignments based on roles, I agree with Spacedaisy and Scotty that those roles can give valuable information and inform alignment probabilities. I think Daisy's analysis of INH is spot-on, and I won't be putting a vote on him today.

I also feel like discounting the value of first-lynch role reveals is a way for you to bolster your "lynch someone fully to see where it goes" approach, with which I've already expressed my disapproval. It's easy to paint today as a Day One if you don't think those first role flips are valuable.

I already said that I don't think we need to lynch over here, so getting NK'd all the time gives us valuable information!
We don't need to keep lynching, guyssss

Scotty wrote: ↑Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:31 pm
Weeeeee

unvote. Vote sig

If sig is silenced, he would have voted like Wilgy did to let us know.
This is the most effective case to aubergine I've read all game, and it's one line. Vote sig.

I know I said Wilgy was the one to go, and I've been avoiding the sig trains so far but I'm fine with sig again! die sig!


DAY 6

So... are we just going to forget the consensus we had around sig yesterday? Might not matter because colonialbob, but placing a continuation aubergine. Vote sig.

Why is sig not dead? Doing another lazy continuation vote.


NIGHT 6
Scotty wrote: ↑Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:01 pm
I would like to make a plea tomorrow that we put as many votes on one person to show those pikachu punks we can reach a decision.

Not to sound like an echo, but Marmot 2018 isn't the worst decision, if only because no one has outright objected to it (or anyone that I have noticed). It's not like he's in here defending himself.

No matter who gets killed tonight, can we all agree that we need to get a lynch across just to see if we can skip the whole NK phase entirely?

I'm starting to agree that, if a merge doesn't happen at this point, a lynch is necessary to resolve game mechanic uncertainties. The more unknowns that get confirmed, the fewer unknowns that apply to reads going forward.

jk guys, you were right, we should have been trying to lynch all along. Too many uncertainties, even though I previously determined there was so much information to be gained.


DAY 7

Joining the aubergine wagon for now. Vote Marmot.

He already has 5 (6?) votes, so i'm just gonna add to this foregone conclusion.


Then he calls Marmot a gut bad read in Night 7, and the rest he's pretty busy. ok.

After all this, and tbh some snarky asides from me, I'm torn. I think that Boom's interactions with Marmot have them sparring often to make me seriously consider them scumbuddies. They could be, sure, but I dunno. Which would leave him to be Evil Even. Some of his responses, reasoning and voting in the early game was just plain odd to say the least.

I left out some of his other posts that I didn't find noteworthy, but one I omitted was a helpful link to his past games played as both civ and mafia. I combed through both of those- the mafia one he posted was a heist from 2015 (Pet Sounds), so I'm not sure the context is incredibly relevant to now, nor is the sample size that high... Both games are very similar in playstyle- his civ and mafia games- and I'm not sure what to make of that. The slight difference, if I have to find one, is the combative nature when he's civ. In Pet Sounds, he used a lot more mollification techniques mixed with his hunting, almost like he's apologizing for slitting your throat. I'm not sure if I see really any of those in this game, but again, that was 3 years ago, and his play style could have changed, as well as his availability to play.

So from playstyle alone, in the links he gave us, as well as the FACT that he even linked to past games, is a good look. (He also linked to Marmot's past mafia/civ games too)

If sig is bad, then Boom strategically avoided voting sig when he had the most votes on days 2-3. Would it have put sig over the edge? Probably not. Pikachu was a whore for vote consolidation, but still.

I just want Boom to be bad, because I've leaned bad on him most of the game, and I don't like being wrong, but I think I have to lump him into civ lean right now on meta comparison alone. I still don't like any of the votes days 1-4, but since then he's been busy so there's not much more to go on.

[Scotty]

oh and aubergine vote Wilgy

[Scotty]

lol what if we had it all backwards and Evil Evens kill on odd nights.

[sprityo]

Spoiler: show

Alright, @sprityo let's do it.

G-Man's Technicolor Vote Analysis.

Day 10

Spoiler: show

DDL - Speed
DH - Speed
Epi - Bob
Sloonei - Wilgy
Scotty - Speed
Sig - Speed
INH - Speed
Speed - Speed
sprityo - Speed
Epi - Wilgy
Dom - Speed
Quin - Wilgy
DDL - Wilgy
DH - Wilgy
Lorab - Wilgy
Speed - Wilgy
Blooper - Wilgy
Kyle - Speed
DDL - Speed
SVS - Speed
DH - Speed
Bob - Speed
Boomslang - Wilgy

DDL
DH
Epi
Sloonei
Scotty
Sig
INH
Speed
sprityo
Epi
Dom
Quin
DDL
DH
Lorab
Speed
Blooper
Kyle
DDL
SV
DH
Bob
Boomslang

KEY

Speed - Green
Wilgy - Orange
Other - White

Eh I don't know what to conclude here. I like to do these things when we have a confirmed baddie among the most voted. Here we have a confirmed civ and an unknown.

You can see the wagons here, namely a Speed one, then the Wilgy one, then the new Speed one, but I'm afraid of calling anyone in them civ or bad based on it.

Any thoughts, sprityo?

By the time the second group of players formed the trains were about tied. The only people to switch votes from Wilgy to speed were DH and DDL. I think if we poke around the second group of voters we might have something

Aren't you presupposing Wilgy's guilt here?

No? We know for sure Speedchuck was innocent, so for the people to break an almost tie it makes them look worse. And if Wilgy is bad, bonus points

[colonialbob]

Spoiler: show

Alright, @sprityo let's do it.

G-Man's Technicolor Vote Analysis.

Day 10

Spoiler: show

DDL - Speed
DH - Speed
Epi - Bob
Sloonei - Wilgy
Scotty - Speed
Sig - Speed
INH - Speed
Speed - Speed
sprityo - Speed
Epi - Wilgy
Dom - Speed
Quin - Wilgy
DDL - Wilgy
DH - Wilgy
Lorab - Wilgy
Speed - Wilgy
Blooper - Wilgy
Kyle - Speed
DDL - Speed
SVS - Speed
DH - Speed
Bob - Speed
Boomslang - Wilgy

DDL
DH
Epi
Sloonei
Scotty
Sig
INH
Speed
sprityo
Epi
Dom
Quin
DDL
DH
Lorab
Speed
Blooper
Kyle
DDL
SV
DH
Bob
Boomslang

KEY

Speed - Green
Wilgy - Orange
Other - White

Eh I don't know what to conclude here. I like to do these things when we have a confirmed baddie among the most voted. Here we have a confirmed civ and an unknown.

You can see the wagons here, namely a Speed one, then the Wilgy one, then the new Speed one, but I'm afraid of calling anyone in them civ or bad based on it.

Any thoughts, sprityo?

By the time the second group of players formed the trains were about tied. The only people to switch votes from Wilgy to speed were DH and DDL. I think if we poke around the second group of voters we might have something

Aren't you presupposing Wilgy's guilt here?

No? We know for sure Speedchuck was innocent, so for the people to break an almost tie it makes them look worse. And if Wilgy is bad, bonus points

But why? If Wilgy and Speed are both civ why do mafia care which one gets lynched? Or even beyond that, in this game one mafia team wouldn't care if another gets votes.

[sprityo]

Spoiler: show

Alright, @sprityo let's do it.

G-Man's Technicolor Vote Analysis.

Day 10

Spoiler: show

DDL - Speed
DH - Speed
Epi - Bob
Sloonei - Wilgy
Scotty - Speed
Sig - Speed
INH - Speed
Speed - Speed
sprityo - Speed
Epi - Wilgy
Dom - Speed
Quin - Wilgy
DDL - Wilgy
DH - Wilgy
Lorab - Wilgy
Speed - Wilgy
Blooper - Wilgy
Kyle - Speed
DDL - Speed
SVS - Speed
DH - Speed
Bob - Speed
Boomslang - Wilgy

DDL
DH
Epi
Sloonei
Scotty
Sig
INH
Speed
sprityo
Epi
Dom
Quin
DDL
DH
Lorab
Speed
Blooper
Kyle
DDL
SV
DH
Bob
Boomslang

KEY

Speed - Green
Wilgy - Orange
Other - White

Eh I don't know what to conclude here. I like to do these things when we have a confirmed baddie among the most voted. Here we have a confirmed civ and an unknown.

You can see the wagons here, namely a Speed one, then the Wilgy one, then the new Speed one, but I'm afraid of calling anyone in them civ or bad based on it.

Any thoughts, sprityo?

By the time the second group of players formed the trains were about tied. The only people to switch votes from Wilgy to speed were DH and DDL. I think if we poke around the second group of voters we might have something

Aren't you presupposing Wilgy's guilt here?

No? We know for sure Speedchuck was innocent, so for the people to break an almost tie it makes them look worse. And if Wilgy is bad, bonus points

But why? If Wilgy and Speed are both civ why do mafia care which one gets lynched? Or even beyond that, in this game one mafia team wouldn't care if another gets votes.

Look at it this way, if there were two towns getting lynched. And one of them has already asked for a replacement. And the other one his trying their damndest to do town things, what would the mafia feel inclined to do in a tie scenario?

[S~V~S]

If it were me, i would sit back and let the town lead on which one to lynch. Then when they mislynch, I would lead the lynch on THEM.

Letting the civs lynch each other is mafia gold, and when they are deciding between two civs, I let them decide, tbh.

[colonialbob]

I agree with S~V~S but I understand sprit's reasoning better now. I was thinking he was mafia trying to throw suspicion on people but his logic tracks even if I don't agree with it.

[Quin]

lol what if we had it all backwards and Evil Evens kill on odd nights.

I've considered this. It changes things up a bit re: presence of teams on Pikachu.

[DrWilgy]

SVS is bad. Pove me wrong.

[Scotty]

SVS is bad. Pove me wrong.

Prove that you're not, first.

[Scotty]

SVS is bad. Pove me wrong.

Pove that you're not, first.

Sorry, fixed

[Quin]

Please allow me to have my S~V~S moment of Atticus Finch'ing Wilgy before he gets decisively sold down the river.

Hey why are we all on wilgy now? This thread seems just be barreling down the path of least resistance right now. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, but there's not a whole lot of critical discussion going on here. What's more fun and exciting than sound critical discussion?

This is the post that I keep coming back to. This here thread's hella flighty, going after, as Sloonei says, the path of least resistance.

That's because of a strange contradiction which is occupying this game. Despite having successfully killed multiple mafia members, no one's actually acting like they know what's going on. People aren't really extrapolating things from flips. Instead, we're going with gut reads and flights of fancy. Except, of course, when an act of bizzarity like the whole Speedchuck conundrum pops up, which, to be honest, would have gotten him lynched in whatever game it happened in.

It's hard to pinpoint the root cause of this passivity and confused malaise, *COUGH*CHICKACHIKAMECHANICS*COUGH* but we can see it displayed in full force with the case against the good honorable Doctor Wilgy, who, let's be honest, is definitely gonna be lynched today.

SYNDICATE CRIME STORY

THE PEOPLE VS. DOCTOR WILGY

1. "META"

Spacedaisy's argument which more or less kicked this whole thing off centered around her belief in a simple dichotomy between the good, civilian DrWilgy, and the evil, scummy Mr. Hyde DrWilgy. Good Wilgy is zany, irrelevant, and usually actively self-sabotaging. We've all seen DrWilgy in games before, acting like some kind of madman, randomly interjecting nonsensical asides into the thread. It's what he's known for. He's a successor to the previous King of Irreverence, Vompatti. (RIP) That, according to Daisy, is the "civ" Wilgy.

Meanwhile, there ostensibly exists a second doppelganger-esque version of Wilgy which lies in wait, exhibiting such maniacal stratagems as "logic," and "effort" to stymy people into believing he's civilian, when really he's a dirty, rotten scummeister.

Basically, "weird" Wilgy = civ, and "intelligent" Wilgy = scum.

That's a pretty bullshit meta case, even by the low standards of meta cases. Assuming that this is true impugns the good Doctor's character. Who are we, who presume to know what lies in the mind of Wilgy? This is the Game of Champions, and despite a sluggish start, I'd expect everyone to bring their A-game. (Even though I myself have faltered at this due to hosting obligations.) It's a dumb, reductive, and certainly not flattering case that throws context out the window. Furthermore, and this is just my opinion, I'd rather play with a persuasive, involved, comprehensible version of Wilgy than the fountain of wackiness. Enthusiastically agreeing with this meta case seems like a way to message to Wilgy that he should be less involved in games, because people will just assume that he's, y'know, trying because he's bad, and not because he just enjoys playing.

Bleh.

2. "PREVIOUS ROLE"

As far as I can gather, and this has kinda been my pet theory from the start, roles don't actually come with a pre-defined alignment. S~V~S was the literal plague, and she's a strong civ read for me.

It seems to me that if you suspect Wilgy because of his previous role, you must also view everyone else through that lens. No cherrypicking who "it makes sense for." For me, that has too many repurcussions that contradict my views.

3. "THE SPRITYO KILL"

Really, Sloonei has been the only one beating this drum, and I have to give him credit for it. This reason's way stronger than the first two, mainly due to its reliance on facts.

FACT: Sprityo was killed Night 8 on the Pikachu Tribe after the wacky swap.

FACT: It must have been (at least) one of the following eight people - Sloonei, Kylemii, Spacedaisy, Scotty, DharmaHelper, Epignosis, Sprityo himself, or DrWilgy. (At least) one of those eight people is a moiderer.

This is where things get all subjective-y, but I've personally had more reason to suspect Daisy, Scotty, and DH than Wilgy. Interesting how they all seem to be funneling onto him today. I don't jive with Sloonei's POE reasoning, and if you suspect any of the other eight people, you don't either.

4. "DAMMIT, GOLDEN, YOU REALLY COULDN'T FIND A FRIGGIN' REPLACEMENT FOR THE GAME OF CHAMPIONS?"

This is the unescapable reality which will dictate why he'll probably be lynched today. DrWilgy has a ton of shit going on in his life currently, and cannot participate in the thread or lend to discussion very much. He popped back up during on March 21st, and has posted a couple of times since then, but overall does not seem to be stepping up his participation. Wilgy has gots to do what Wilgy has gots to do.

All that makes him an uber-easy target. No resistance, no pushback. All you have to do is sigh and go, "Wilgy, I guess," and everyone will nod their head in understanding. And that's why he's gonna be lynched today. Not because of any solid reasoning. Because he's the easiest option, the path of least resistance.

My fellow Champions, why must it be that way? Can we please all, including the poor old Doctor Wilgy, find in our hearts to try and do better than this?

Hell, lynch me for posting a large, rambling, nonsensical post passionately defending an inactive player without really providing a strong alternative! At least that's an actual reason for suspicion.

I halfway agree with everything you say, but like... why not lynching Wilgy? We have more dead scum than town, Wilgy isn't playing and all reasons for lynching him seems plausible. Feels like we gotta get this page turned before moving on.

"We absolutely must lynch speedchuck or we'll lose a civilian" does not translate to "We should be lynching scum but I feel like we just need to get this lynch over with".

I'm not voting speedchuck tomorrow. That's the lazy vote. I already explained why waiting to lynch him is the best option. We have limited information and waiting a not-horribly-long amount of time to see if a bona fide alignment revealer flips is the logical course of action. We're not at LYLO. We can afford it. With every flip that isn't that role, the probability of him being scum increases. No need to rush into a lynch now.

I will not be accepting any counterpoints at this time, thank you. Especially because today isn't Day 10 and we don't need to be talking about speedchuck.

This reasoning is so weird.

We get way more information on one player than we would ever get in most mafia games and your reaction to it is "not enough, need more evidence".

It just doesn't connect.

When everyone bar one or two people is just sitting on the flip as an excuse to lynch, I'm not content. If you think my reasoning is weird, tell me: What do we lose from doing things my way?

Civs.

[Quin]

[VOTE: DDL] aubergine