Ancient Greece Mafia [CONQUEST]

[colonialbob]

And Mac if you’d been here I would have joined you in pushing the thread in another direction. I regret that MP had to leave just when he did. I was trying to catch up and never fully engaged with him in real time, that could have lead to better results.

Ugh, I just have to respond to this. I feel like a giant egghead for the sig mislynch. I officially can't read the guy, and I should have trusted my earlier self that was townreading him, because I got caught up in the moment and really thought he was the best option we had available. It was pretty difficult to develop any counterwagon at the time, but I regret my actions; I should have just stuck with Luna or went somewhere else I guess.

Ew.

[VOTE: M+7] aubergine

Explain.

You're apologizing and distancing from a D1 civ lynch. It was D1, the odds were always that it would be a civ. That's how the game works. Why would you feel guilty about that?

I'm not distancing. At all. That's the opposite of what I'm doing; I take full responsibility for my sig vote. Of course I regret it. Why wouldn't I feel guilty about mislynching a fellow townie?

"I voted him, but only because I didn't believe in myself" (paraphrased) - aka you let yourself get pushed into a Sig vote by the thread. Convenient way of deflecting blame onto others without having to specifically name anybody.

And again because it's D1. Can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. (Unless it's [mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention]'s heist game and [mention]speedchuck[/mention] and I are scummates )

[Tangrowth]

LC, when you get a chance could you also expand on why you suspect Dom specifically? Thanks.

[Tangrowth]

MP, you are The Straw Man right now.

You take Colin's post and frame it as "he's concerned with what's perceived as scummy" when that's not accurate. Colin was responding to what someone else said looks scummy, so the subject was brought to him, and he responded to it. Your interpretation ignores that and puts up the straw man to beat on: Colin, the Guy Who Is Concerned With What Looks Scummy.

If you had, for example, asked lunalee the exact same question when she literally told Spacedaisy to be careful about being perceived as scummy, then it would have been so very legit. Here, not so much.

You take my post and frame it as "You think nightkill analysis is pointless", and proceed to loosely imply some sort of hypocrisy. But I never said I think nightkill analysis is pointless, I said Golden's "rank my five possibilities" exercise is pointless busy work. You took what I really said, and stuff it into the straw man of "LC considers NK analysis pointless", and throw it out there for people to take swings at.

That makes you a two-time Straw Man Sinner, and my new top suspect.

Keep it honest.

[VOTE: M plus 7] aubergine

LOL.

[Tangrowth]

That has to be the most manufactured suspicion of me I've seen in quite some time, and boy have I seen a lot of it over the years. Congrats, LC. You're now blood red in my rainbow.

[Tangrowth]

[VOTE: VOTE: LONG CON] aubergine

You're full of shit.

[Lunalee]

And again, to be clear: Colin wasn't an option because your objective was to break the tie?

My objective is always to vote somewhere it can make a difference. I don't think there is ever any value in town voting off wagon, no matter how much you might think every wagon is civ. I don't care about breaking the tie - I'd have voted my biggest suspect of the three even if it created a tie.

I think there is a difference in game philosophy coming to light here. Voting off wagon has its benefits and I don't want to spell all of them out necessarily, but one is to apply pressure. I felt that lunalee's conduct was the most suspicious of anyone I'd ISO'd that day and certainly more suspicious than the others. And I would rather put pressure on someone who I think may be scum than kill someone who I don't see a case for. Sorry if you think that's bad play, but that's how it is and how it's gonna be.

How do you apply pressure with 8 minutes left before the deadline on someone with 1 vote ?

The game didn't end after the Day 1 lynch, did it?

Are you implying that you had no attention to lynch her D1 ?

Can I add input here? Sorry if you felt ignored Colin, but Speedchuck gave me some advice last game I played that it is more useful to town to analyze posts and scum hunt than repeatedly defend ones self. That is what I'm trying to do. And yes, I do realize the irony of this comment, but just wanted to throw that out.

[Long Con]

That has to be the most manufactured suspicion of me I've seen in quite some time, and boy have I seen a lot of it over the years. Congrats, LC. You're now blood red in my rainbow.

Chortle all you like. You're still guilty as charged.

[Tangrowth]

FTR, LC, I've never said I even suspect Colin. I actually don't. I'm trying to get a feel for him. He said one potentially alarming thing; I spat back at him what I found alarming because I want him to clarify.

You're not meaningfully engaging me at all. You don't care about determining mine or anyone else's alignment. That means you're bad. Prove me wrong.

[Tangrowth]

That has to be the most manufactured suspicion of me I've seen in quite some time, and boy have I seen a lot of it over the years. Congrats, LC. You're now blood red in my rainbow.

Chortle all you like. You're still guilty as charged.

LMAO, come at me, bro. This is the towniest I've been in years.

[Tangrowth]

If you and I enter a death match cage, LC, I will beat you.

[Long Con]

I'll prove you wrong when we lynch you and see your Persian ass evicted.

[Lunalee]

LOL [mention]M Plus 7[/mention] , [mention]Long Con[/mention] You both look pretty suspicious right now.

[Long Con]

I always look suspicious. It only delights me when I'm Civ.

[Tangrowth]

I'll prove you wrong when we lynch you and see your Persian ass evicted.

Lol, your behavior is so Mafia 101. You can't even meaningfully engage me, so you just throw up "lol Straw Man" and then vote me without backing down. You're so cornered right now.

[Tangrowth]

I always look suspicious. It only delights me when I'm Civ.

That's not a townie mindset.

[Tangrowth]

Well, I'm caught up, so expect a rainbow list incoming.

[Long Con]

I always look suspicious. It only delights me when I'm Civ.

That's not a townie mindset.

Is that right

[Tangrowth]

LOL M Plus 7 , Long Con You both look pretty suspicious right now.

What do you think of the suspicion that has been directed at you? You haven't seemed to acknowledge it unless I missed it.

[Turnip Head]

I always look suspicious. It only delights me when I'm Civ.

Oh okay, good. I see you locking horns with MP and Dom, I was gonna ask if you needed help

[Tangrowth]

I always look suspicious. It only delights me when I'm Civ.

That's not a townie mindset.

Is that right

If you are town, then why don't you care about actually discerning where I'm coming from? I was trying to discern where you were coming from, but instead of doing that, you evaded any attempt to meaningfully converse and threw up a wall.

[Long Con]

I already discerned where you're coming form. I don't need your help.

Thanks, TH, I'll let you know.

[Lunalee]

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

From D1 (Updated)

Dunya: 2- Long Con, Epignosis
Epignosis: 4 - Scotty, Jack of Hearts, Speedchuck, Wolbre04
Golden: 2 - Lunalee, Croutons
Lunalee: 2 - Kylemii, ColinisCool
Marmot: 1 - Space Daisy
Novaselinenever: 4 - MacDougal, Sloonei, Sig, Turnip
Sig:: 5 - Nova, MP, Marmot, Dom, Golden
Turniphead: 1 - Dunya

There's 2-3 scum in: Scotty, Jack, Speed, Nova, MP, Marmot, Dom, and Golden
Further narrowed down to: Scotty, Golden, Marmot, Nova, Speed

Here's a Pretty List:
Jack
MP
Dom
Speed
Golden
Scotty
Marmot
Nova

Just what I'm thinking

So your suspicions lie on anyone who voted for confirmed town. Even though you did the very same thing.

I was worried about a tie tbh, a d1 no lynch has happened to me in games before and I feel like it puts us into an endless cycle of misinformation. This probably sounds flimsy but
a. I'm new so Epi's behavior seemed weird as I don't know anyone's metas that was alive at the time
b. I posted the "No Lynching is illegal" Trump gif (this should obviously be enough)
c. I wasn't going to be around for several hours after voting, and he seemed the best option at the time (I didn't post after that for quite awhile). I wouldn't have felt comfortable with a sig lynch because he was not acting scummy based on my games with him on my home forum.
d. At the time, Epi had 3(?) votes on him I believe and was the leading wagon, with 2(?) votes on another player - I wasn't going to risk a tie when our information tank is empty.

For wolbre to have been so concerned about a day one no-lynch makes me suspect him a bit. I'm going to [VOTE: wolbre04] aubergine for now.

[Lunalee]

LOL M Plus 7 , Long Con You both look pretty suspicious right now.

What do you think of the suspicion that has been directed at you? You haven't seemed to acknowledge it unless I missed it.

You missed it.

Spoiler: show

And again, to be clear: Colin wasn't an option because your objective was to break the tie?

My objective is always to vote somewhere it can make a difference. I don't think there is ever any value in town voting off wagon, no matter how much you might think every wagon is civ. I don't care about breaking the tie - I'd have voted my biggest suspect of the three even if it created a tie.

I think there is a difference in game philosophy coming to light here. Voting off wagon has its benefits and I don't want to spell all of them out necessarily, but one is to apply pressure. I felt that lunalee's conduct was the most suspicious of anyone I'd ISO'd that day and certainly more suspicious than the others. And I would rather put pressure on someone who I think may be scum than kill someone who I don't see a case for. Sorry if you think that's bad play, but that's how it is and how it's gonna be.

How do you apply pressure with 8 minutes left before the deadline on someone with 1 vote ?

The game didn't end after the Day 1 lynch, did it?

Are you implying that you had no attention to lynch her D1 ?

Can I add input here? Sorry if you felt ignored Colin, but Speedchuck gave me some advice last game I played that it is more useful to town to analyze posts and scum hunt than repeatedly defend ones self. That is what I'm trying to do. And yes, I do realize the irony of this comment, but just wanted to throw that out.

[Tangrowth]

I already discerned where you're coming form. I don't need your help.

Thanks, TH, I'll let you know.

Okay then. Can't say I didn't try.

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

From D1 (Updated)

Dunya: 2- Long Con, Epignosis
Epignosis: 4 - Scotty, Jack of Hearts, Speedchuck, Wolbre04
Golden: 2 - Lunalee, Croutons
Lunalee: 2 - Kylemii, ColinisCool
Marmot: 1 - Space Daisy
Novaselinenever: 4 - MacDougal, Sloonei, Sig, Turnip
Sig:: 5 - Nova, MP, Marmot, Dom, Golden
Turniphead: 1 - Dunya

There's 2-3 scum in: Scotty, Jack, Speed, Nova, MP, Marmot, Dom, and Golden
Further narrowed down to: Scotty, Golden, Marmot, Nova, Speed

Here's a Pretty List:
Jack
MP
Dom
Speed
Golden
Scotty
Marmot
Nova

Just what I'm thinking

So your suspicions lie on anyone who voted for confirmed town. Even though you did the very same thing.

I was worried about a tie tbh, a d1 no lynch has happened to me in games before and I feel like it puts us into an endless cycle of misinformation. This probably sounds flimsy but
a. I'm new so Epi's behavior seemed weird as I don't know anyone's metas that was alive at the time
b. I posted the "No Lynching is illegal" Trump gif (this should obviously be enough)
c. I wasn't going to be around for several hours after voting, and he seemed the best option at the time (I didn't post after that for quite awhile). I wouldn't have felt comfortable with a sig lynch because he was not acting scummy based on my games with him on my home forum.
d. At the time, Epi had 3(?) votes on him I believe and was the leading wagon, with 2(?) votes on another player - I wasn't going to risk a tie when our information tank is empty.

For wolbre to have been so concerned about a day one no-lynch makes me suspect him a bit. I'm going to [VOTE: wolbre04] aubergine for now.

Can you explain this logic?

And thanks for answering on the response to suspicion by the way.

[Tangrowth]

In the future, LC, when someone misinterprets a post you make, why don't you just explain how they misinterpreted it instead of NO Uing and being rude about it? That'd be much more productive behavior, assuming you are actually town.

[Lunalee]

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

From D1 (Updated)

Dunya: 2- Long Con, Epignosis
Epignosis: 4 - Scotty, Jack of Hearts, Speedchuck, Wolbre04
Golden: 2 - Lunalee, Croutons
Lunalee: 2 - Kylemii, ColinisCool
Marmot: 1 - Space Daisy
Novaselinenever: 4 - MacDougal, Sloonei, Sig, Turnip
Sig:: 5 - Nova, MP, Marmot, Dom, Golden
Turniphead: 1 - Dunya

There's 2-3 scum in: Scotty, Jack, Speed, Nova, MP, Marmot, Dom, and Golden
Further narrowed down to: Scotty, Golden, Marmot, Nova, Speed

Here's a Pretty List:
Jack
MP
Dom
Speed
Golden
Scotty
Marmot
Nova

Just what I'm thinking

So your suspicions lie on anyone who voted for confirmed town. Even though you did the very same thing.

I was worried about a tie tbh, a d1 no lynch has happened to me in games before and I feel like it puts us into an endless cycle of misinformation. This probably sounds flimsy but
a. I'm new so Epi's behavior seemed weird as I don't know anyone's metas that was alive at the time
b. I posted the "No Lynching is illegal" Trump gif (this should obviously be enough)
c. I wasn't going to be around for several hours after voting, and he seemed the best option at the time (I didn't post after that for quite awhile). I wouldn't have felt comfortable with a sig lynch because he was not acting scummy based on my games with him on my home forum.
d. At the time, Epi had 3(?) votes on him I believe and was the leading wagon, with 2(?) votes on another player - I wasn't going to risk a tie when our information tank is empty.

For wolbre to have been so concerned about a day one no-lynch makes me suspect him a bit. I'm going to [VOTE: wolbre04] aubergine for now.

Can you explain this logic?

And thanks for answering on the response to suspicion by the way.

Logic: wolbre joined a lynch train and when I asked about it, defended his decision by saying he didn't want the chance of a no-lynch on day 1 (although he was mistaken about how that worked). I would be okay with a defense based off his suspicion of the person, but to just want to get a lynch through no matter what, seems like a scummy thing to do. More town kills leads to faster mafia victory.

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

From D1 (Updated)

Dunya: 2- Long Con, Epignosis
Epignosis: 4 - Scotty, Jack of Hearts, Speedchuck, Wolbre04
Golden: 2 - Lunalee, Croutons
Lunalee: 2 - Kylemii, ColinisCool
Marmot: 1 - Space Daisy
Novaselinenever: 4 - MacDougal, Sloonei, Sig, Turnip
Sig:: 5 - Nova, MP, Marmot, Dom, Golden
Turniphead: 1 - Dunya

There's 2-3 scum in: Scotty, Jack, Speed, Nova, MP, Marmot, Dom, and Golden
Further narrowed down to: Scotty, Golden, Marmot, Nova, Speed

Here's a Pretty List:
Jack
MP
Dom
Speed
Golden
Scotty
Marmot
Nova

Just what I'm thinking

So your suspicions lie on anyone who voted for confirmed town. Even though you did the very same thing.

I was worried about a tie tbh, a d1 no lynch has happened to me in games before and I feel like it puts us into an endless cycle of misinformation. This probably sounds flimsy but
a. I'm new so Epi's behavior seemed weird as I don't know anyone's metas that was alive at the time
b. I posted the "No Lynching is illegal" Trump gif (this should obviously be enough)
c. I wasn't going to be around for several hours after voting, and he seemed the best option at the time (I didn't post after that for quite awhile). I wouldn't have felt comfortable with a sig lynch because he was not acting scummy based on my games with him on my home forum.
d. At the time, Epi had 3(?) votes on him I believe and was the leading wagon, with 2(?) votes on another player - I wasn't going to risk a tie when our information tank is empty.

For wolbre to have been so concerned about a day one no-lynch makes me suspect him a bit. I'm going to [VOTE: wolbre04] aubergine for now.

Can you explain this logic?

And thanks for answering on the response to suspicion by the way.

Logic: wolbre joined a lynch train and when I asked about it, defended his decision by saying he didn't want the chance of a no-lynch on day 1 (although he was mistaken about how that worked). I would be okay with a defense based off his suspicion of the person, but to just want to get a lynch through no matter what, seems like a scummy thing to do. More town kills leads to faster mafia victory.

I suppose that's understandable, but I think it's more non-alignment-indicative or IMO even town-indicative than anything -- the desire to want a lynch over a no-lynch is town-favorable because, even in the result of a mislynch, the town's main power is via lynching other players.

[Long Con]

In the future, LC, when someone misinterprets a post you make, why don't you just explain how they misinterpreted it instead of NO Uing and being rude about it? That'd be much more productive behavior, assuming you are actually town.

Well, you see, what you did was not an innocent interpretation, it was a malevolent and intentional misinterpretation that was designed to back me into a corner. There's no explanation that can fix a baddie's ill intentions.

And if you were just innocently asking about my post, then how is it a No U? There's no OMGUS by me here, all I did was analyze your pattern of behaviour and found commonalities that look very bad on you. Recall, if you will, that I was already unhappy with your Straw Man treatment of Colin. When you turned around and did the exact same thing to me, it really caught my attention.

[speedchuck]

second of all, please review MK. my vote landed on speedchuck who only JJJ voted with me on, when I could have voted for Simon and saved myself as the second wagon. Even though I was suspicious of Simon (and he was scum), speed kind of scumslipped and when a scum scumslips, you go after the player you're 100% sure is scum rather than someone you're 85% sure of.

Did not.

(On the catch-up train guys)

[Tangrowth]

In the future, LC, when someone misinterprets a post you make, why don't you just explain how they misinterpreted it instead of NO Uing and being rude about it? That'd be much more productive behavior, assuming you are actually town.

Well, you see, what you did was not an innocent interpretation, it was a malevolent and intentional misinterpretation that was designed to back me into a corner. There's no explanation that can fix a baddie's ill intentions.

And if you were just innocently asking about my post, then how is it a No U? There's no OMGUS by me here, all I did was analyze your pattern of behaviour and found commonalities that look very bad on you. Recall, if you will, that I was already unhappy with your Straw Man treatment of Colin. When you turned around and did the exact same thing to me, it really caught my attention.

What use of loaded language. How would you even fucking know that? You're not even engaging me or considering anything I'm saying. You're just prescribing some explanation to my behavior with literally no doubt and seemingly out of nowhere.

You analyzed my pattern of behavior? ...OK. How? I don't see what you're saying.

And then you proceed to talk down to me and ask like this has been a long time coming "I was already unhappy with...". LC. That JUST happened. You're literally making a mountain out of a molehill right now, proclaiming me as bad with your little narrative you've eschewed, and refusing to consider any other perspective (which I explained EXACTLY, by the way) for why I would ask those questions as a member of the town.

[Tangrowth]

I just cannot fathom this behavior. What even is this?

[Tangrowth]

I'm walking away.

[speedchuck]

I'm skim milk rn

[Tangrowth]

Day 2 MP Rainbow:

Strong town:
Golden
Macdougall

Moderate town:
Dom

Slight town:
colonialbob [lapluie]
Marmot
novaselinenever
Scotty
speedchuck
wolbre04

Very slight town:
Choutas
dunya
Kylemii
Quin [Kites]
Spacedaisy
Turnip Head

Very slight mafia:
ColinIsCool
Jackofhearts2005

Slight mafia:
Lunalee

Moderate mafia:
Sloonei

Strong mafia:
Long Con

Well, here's that. I really have to get back to work, so I hate to not expand on more of these detail, but I can gladly try to explain any of them upon request when I return (just ask me or atmention me). I'll just expand on the various shades of mafia reads for now.

This read of LC is immensely frustrating because I feel like I can't even fathom to consider his intentions with any remote sense of fairness at this stage, so I'd prefer to get outside input on that and focus elsewhere for the duration. For now, I still stand by my interpretation of LC's behavior: he's a cornered baddie. I cannot fathom any reasonable explanation for this behavior if he is town. This is not the kind of behavior that wins games.

As far as Sloonei, I have had my own feelings of Sloonei playing a timid and calculated game since the latter half of Day 1 or so, but I wasn't really sure so I was reserving any strong opinion of him for the time being; Mac's case illustrates some pretty compelling points. Further, I feel like Sloonei's response to the case was very uncharacteristic, and it makes the fact that he dropped some over-the-top language in there seem a bit forced and insincere. I also feel like town Sloonei would be working harder to identify scum instead of defend himself, and I'm not seeing that either.

My feelings on Lunalee are pretty much the same, although I've moderated them somewhat due to speedchuck's perspective and my own experience playing with her in the past Burglaries. I'm trying to get a feel for her but finding it difficult despite being able to largely understand the possibility for sincerity in her perspectives.

Jack and Colin are both players I'm really on the fence about, but GTH I'd end up throwing them in the mafia column. Despite largely trusting Mac and Golden, I'm not sure I feel as confident about Colin being bad because I can easily see a scenario in which everything he's done this game has been town. I just feel like I don't have much of a perspective on him though. Jack I'm just super undecided about. I really need to see more from them to get a better idea of where their head is at.

When I return I hope to try to do some digging into ISOs.

[wolbre04]

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

From D1 (Updated)

Dunya: 2- Long Con, Epignosis
Epignosis: 4 - Scotty, Jack of Hearts, Speedchuck, Wolbre04
Golden: 2 - Lunalee, Croutons
Lunalee: 2 - Kylemii, ColinisCool
Marmot: 1 - Space Daisy
Novaselinenever: 4 - MacDougal, Sloonei, Sig, Turnip
Sig:: 5 - Nova, MP, Marmot, Dom, Golden
Turniphead: 1 - Dunya

There's 2-3 scum in: Scotty, Jack, Speed, Nova, MP, Marmot, Dom, and Golden
Further narrowed down to: Scotty, Golden, Marmot, Nova, Speed

Here's a Pretty List:
Jack
MP
Dom
Speed
Golden
Scotty
Marmot
Nova

Just what I'm thinking

So your suspicions lie on anyone who voted for confirmed town. Even though you did the very same thing.

I was worried about a tie tbh, a d1 no lynch has happened to me in games before and I feel like it puts us into an endless cycle of misinformation. This probably sounds flimsy but
a. I'm new so Epi's behavior seemed weird as I don't know anyone's metas that was alive at the time
b. I posted the "No Lynching is illegal" Trump gif (this should obviously be enough)
c. I wasn't going to be around for several hours after voting, and he seemed the best option at the time (I didn't post after that for quite awhile). I wouldn't have felt comfortable with a sig lynch because he was not acting scummy based on my games with him on my home forum.
d. At the time, Epi had 3(?) votes on him I believe and was the leading wagon, with 2(?) votes on another player - I wasn't going to risk a tie when our information tank is empty.

For wolbre to have been so concerned about a day one no-lynch makes me suspect him a bit. I'm going to [VOTE: wolbre04] aubergine for now.

Can you explain this logic?

And thanks for answering on the response to suspicion by the way.

Logic: wolbre joined a lynch train and when I asked about it, defended his decision by saying he didn't want the chance of a no-lynch on day 1 (although he was mistaken about how that worked). I would be okay with a defense based off his suspicion of the person, but to just want to get a lynch through no matter what, seems like a scummy thing to do. More town kills leads to faster mafia victory.

Take it as you may, but of the last 4 games I've been involved with, people have tried to "prevent a town lynch" day one and day two in 3 of them successfully at least one of those days. Im used to no one being lynched as opposed to a random lead wagon. That's my mentality there

[wolbre04]

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

From D1 (Updated)

Dunya: 2- Long Con, Epignosis
Epignosis: 4 - Scotty, Jack of Hearts, Speedchuck, Wolbre04
Golden: 2 - Lunalee, Croutons
Lunalee: 2 - Kylemii, ColinisCool
Marmot: 1 - Space Daisy
Novaselinenever: 4 - MacDougal, Sloonei, Sig, Turnip
Sig:: 5 - Nova, MP, Marmot, Dom, Golden
Turniphead: 1 - Dunya

There's 2-3 scum in: Scotty, Jack, Speed, Nova, MP, Marmot, Dom, and Golden
Further narrowed down to: Scotty, Golden, Marmot, Nova, Speed

Here's a Pretty List:
Jack
MP
Dom
Speed
Golden
Scotty
Marmot
Nova

Just what I'm thinking

So your suspicions lie on anyone who voted for confirmed town. Even though you did the very same thing.

I was worried about a tie tbh, a d1 no lynch has happened to me in games before and I feel like it puts us into an endless cycle of misinformation. This probably sounds flimsy but
a. I'm new so Epi's behavior seemed weird as I don't know anyone's metas that was alive at the time
b. I posted the "No Lynching is illegal" Trump gif (this should obviously be enough)
c. I wasn't going to be around for several hours after voting, and he seemed the best option at the time (I didn't post after that for quite awhile). I wouldn't have felt comfortable with a sig lynch because he was not acting scummy based on my games with him on my home forum.
d. At the time, Epi had 3(?) votes on him I believe and was the leading wagon, with 2(?) votes on another player - I wasn't going to risk a tie when our information tank is empty.

For wolbre to have been so concerned about a day one no-lynch makes me suspect him a bit. I'm going to [VOTE: wolbre04] aubergine for now.

Can you explain this logic?

And thanks for answering on the response to suspicion by the way.

Logic: wolbre joined a lynch train and when I asked about it, defended his decision by saying he didn't want the chance of a no-lynch on day 1 (although he was mistaken about how that worked). I would be okay with a defense based off his suspicion of the person, but to just want to get a lynch through no matter what, seems like a scummy thing to do. More town kills leads to faster mafia victory.

Take it as you may, but of the last 4 games I've been involved with, people have tried to "prevent a town lynch" day one and day two in 3 of them successfully at least one of those days. Im used to no one being lynched as opposed to a random lead wagon. That's my mentality there

The fact that you're trying to hold this against me is really pingy to me and kicks you down a few notches on my list

[Long Con]

In the future, LC, when someone misinterprets a post you make, why don't you just explain how they misinterpreted it instead of NO Uing and being rude about it? That'd be much more productive behavior, assuming you are actually town.

Well, you see, what you did was not an innocent interpretation, it was a malevolent and intentional misinterpretation that was designed to back me into a corner. There's no explanation that can fix a baddie's ill intentions.

And if you were just innocently asking about my post, then how is it a No U? There's no OMGUS by me here, all I did was analyze your pattern of behaviour and found commonalities that look very bad on you. Recall, if you will, that I was already unhappy with your Straw Man treatment of Colin. When you turned around and did the exact same thing to me, it really caught my attention.

What use of loaded language. How would you even fucking know that? You're not even engaging me or considering anything I'm saying. You're just prescribing some explanation to my behavior with literally no doubt and seemingly out of nowhere.

That's not loaded language. That's regular language. That's me stating clearly what I believe you were doing. Loaded language is, like, subtle or something. Was "innocent" loaded language too, or is it just any words that are the ones describing that I think you're bad?

How would I even fucking know that? I don't know anything, I didn't imply that I know anything... I'm posting what I think is true. That's a really strange thing to say in a game of Mafia, unless you're talking to someone claiming information. That's "knowing".

And I do apologize that my playstyle is frustrating to you. I understand that you want to write over my opinions with your own narrative/perspective. The reason I'm not all that open to it is because I'm quite sure you can weave a tale of Civ MP when you're not. To put it another way... I accuse you of being a liar, and you tell me to listen to how honest you are. I'm just supposed to believe the guy who I think is a liar?

You analyzed my pattern of behavior? ...OK. How? I don't see what you're saying.

I showed how you strawmanned Colin, then I showed how you repeated the behaviour on me. That is the pattern I refer to.

And then you proceed to talk down to me and ask like this has been a long time coming "I was already unhappy with...". LC. That JUST happened.

Talk down to you? Is this another personal attack that I don't recall making?

I wasn't implying a long time coming. You accused me of a No U, and I was showing you that my beef with you preceded yours with me.

You're literally making a mountain out of a molehill right now, proclaiming me as bad with your little narrative you've eschewed, and refusing to consider any other perspective (which I explained EXACTLY, by the way) for why I would ask those questions as a member of the town.

Could be... and I explained above why I eschwed your perspective.

[Marmot]

To expound on Sloonei, I think his posts from Day 1 suggest he's treading lightly around Golden, a player who is dangerous when he's on either alignment. Golden voted for Sloonei a few times so far this game, Sloonei responded to those votes. But Sloonei's only other mentions of Golden were talking to other players who suspected Golden.

If Sloonei is civilian, I don't see reason for him to behave this way with Golden, nor would I expect him to. And if he does have concerns, I'd like to hear them, because I don't see evidence of these concerns yet.


Oooh, I almost forgot, Sloonei also disagreed with Long Con's and my unwillingness to play Golden's game.



I dunno, there's a consistent distraction from Golden that Sloonei's putting up.

Are you inferring anything about Golden's alignment from this, or only Sloonei's?

If Sloonei is mafia then I believe Golden is not mafia.

If I'm wrong about Sloonei, then I don't think this says anything about Golden.



But I read Golden as civilian right now (crazy I know), and I think what I've seen from Sloonei supports that notion.

[Marmot]

I always look suspicious. It only delights me when I'm Civ.

That's not a townie mindset.

Dang, because I feel the same way as LC does here in every game.

[Long Con]

I always look suspicious. It only delights me when I'm Civ.

That's not a townie mindset.

Dang, because I feel the same way as LC does here in every game.

Really? I thought I was weird.

[speedchuck]

[mention]MacDougall[/mention] Do you still want votes piled on ColinisCool?

[speedchuck]

I always look suspicious. It only delights me when I'm Civ.

That's not a townie mindset.

Dang, because I feel the same way as LC does here in every game.

Really? I thought I was weird.

Towny people get nightkilled. Screw that noise. Endgame is worth getting to.

[Marmot]

I always look suspicious. It only delights me when I'm Civ.

That's not a townie mindset.

Dang, because I feel the same way as LC does here in every game.

Really? I thought I was weird.

It's k mate. You're weirder than a Scotty typo, and those turn up some pretty crazy shit.

[Marmot]

@MacDougall Do you still want votes piled on ColinisCool?

What do you want?

[speedchuck]

@MacDougall Do you still want votes piled on ColinisCool?

What do you want?

If he's still doing a thing, I want to help.

If not, and I wanted to consolidate, I'd vote Sloonei. I suspect Sloon more than Colin. (though I do suspect Colin, or I wouldn't be asking)

But what I really want to do is start some entirely new votes since we're only a fourth of the way through the day. I'd probably start with [mention]Quin[/mention]. My Quindar has not given me the genu-Quin townread yet, and I usually get that as soon as he starts posting.

[Tangrowth]

LC, it's fine, I apologize too if I've bothered you at all. I may get very aggressive in game but I never mean any offense towards the person I'm dogpeeing on or anyone else. I felt bad about making a whole ordeal out of this, so I wanted to come back here specifically to say that.

And given your more recent response, I understand a bit better where you might be coming from now with respect to multiple fronts, so I thought I should respond to those and thereafter just let the exchange settle for a little while. See the following:

1) To set the record straight, I did not intend to strawman anyone, either you or Colin. That's not a purposeful strategy I employ even when I am bad. The strategy I employ when I am bad is to seem as town as possible, not to like manipulate people to see some other player in a more negative or anything like that. That's not something I think I'm very good at. The only thing I think I'm good at when bad is replicating my town behavior, and I don't try to set people up to look bad when town. If I do so, it's unintentional, and I apologize if you feel like I was setting you up to fail or something. I was merely describing the way I interpreted your post (and Colin's), and throwing it back at you in the form of a question exactly how I understand it, because I wanted to get a sense for how you'd engage me going forward so it could help me determine whether I think you're fabricating it or not.

2) It seemed immediately suspicious to me that you not only defended Colin but immediately proceeded to damn me as bad even though I made a good faith attempt to try to explain my behavior. I can understand that obviously you don't know my intentions and so if you prescribe some sort of nefarious narrative to my behavior, it's natural that you'd suspect me based on that narrative.

3) Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to ascribe to the view that once you've determined what you think is behavior indicative of a mafia member, you'd prefer not to engage and when you do you take everything with a grain of salt, because you don't want to be convinced out of being right. See, I prefer to play the other way around, even if it makes me inaccurate or feel regret. I'd rather listen to everything someone that I suspect has to say with as open a mind as possible, regardless of the actual content (and whether it's defense or accusations of other players or whatever), because I'd rather give them every single possibility to change my mind if I'm wrongly suspecting them. If that means I get convinced by people who are mafia to not suspect them, so be it.

I think it'd be best to just let it go for now though and revisit later, partially because there are plenty of other players for me to try to get a better feel for and because I really seriously ought to leave for now.

[Tangrowth]

I always look suspicious. It only delights me when I'm Civ.

That's not a townie mindset.

Dang, because I feel the same way as LC does here in every game.

Really? I thought I was weird.

You all are weird. Or maybe I'm the weird one.

I can't stand getting suspected as either alignment; it seriously stresses me out. But at least as a mafia-aligned member if I feel like whoever is suspecting me actually has a point, then I can sort of understand it. When I'm townie and receiving any suspicion, I'm like HOW DARE YOU THINK I'M NOT TOWN, I'M THE TOWNIEST FUCK THAT EVER TOWNED, GTFO! every time even when I try to control it, as many of you know.

I love making it to endgame, don't get me wrong, but I'd much rather be NKed than lynched any day of the week. It means mafia were afraid of me. That's awesome. Getting mislynched makes me always feel like I've done something wrong.

[Tangrowth]

For the sake of truly letting this LC thing go until I return, the last thing I'll do (promise) is move vote to [mention]Jackofhearts2005[/mention]. I feel like of every player in this game that hasn't been really quiet, he's the one I just cannot get any handle on whatsoever. What say you, Jack? Where's your head at? Show us that supatown Jack we all want to see.

But just know that I also still think LC is bad (even if I have my doubts) and I want to know what you all think.

[Tangrowth]

Oh, whoops. Keep forgetting these vote tag things.

[VOTE: VOTE: JACKOFHEARTS2005] aubergine