WWE MAFIA - Day 14

[birdwithteeth11]

Also, please feel free to think of me from now on as 'The Syndicate Court Jester'.

[Mongoose]

I'm REALLY sorry about that. For some reason, I thought I was posting in my speed game, and didn't realize that I made that post in the wrong thread until just now. Please forgive me everyone!

Ahem! Yeah, it's rather easy to do!

[Vompatti]

I randomized and got *Vomps*.

[Turnip Head]

What's your deal Vomp? You only come in to vote yourself, no participation whatsoever. Are you one of the people asking to be replaced? Because you basically aren't playing :-/

Not impressed overall with the participation for today, very few people have checked in with the thread so far and we only have ~24ish hours left.

I'm looking at Disgruntled Porcupine, Russtifinko, Vompatti or Devin for my vote this lynch. Devin and Russ both followed Epi a little too blindly in my opinion, and made sure to mention that they were following Epi's lead and not thinking for themselves. Now Devin is all like "It's my fault, kill me". It's not really a civvie reaction but then again it's not a baddie reaction either.

Russ has the "busy bein busy" excuse which makes it hard to look at his game objectively, but so far I don't like what I've seen from Russ's posts. He doesn't offer many clear thoughts, just vague possible suspicions. I feel that baddies give these vague thoughts more than civvies do. But I don't know Russ's game.

Vompatti, as stated above, only comes in to vote for himself. It's hard to make a case against him, but it's even harder to make a case for him being civvie. His complete apathy for what we're trying to accomplish in this game of mafia is unsettling.

When I asked what DP's thoughts on the game were, once upon a time, he replied to me "None." And that's been par for the course the whole game so far for DP.

It's not funny anymore you guys. If you're civvies, you need to help catch baddies. Anyone who's not actively trying to do that is probably scum. On a related note, if A Person votes for himself again, my vote might go there instead. Seriously, let's stop clowning around and nab us a baddie.

[FZ.]

What's your deal Vomp? You only come in to vote yourself, no participation whatsoever. Are you one of the people asking to be replaced? Because you basically aren't playing :-/

Not impressed overall with the participation for today, very few people have checked in with the thread so far and we only have ~24ish hours left.

I'm looking at Disgruntled Porcupine, Russtifinko, Vompatti or Devin for my vote this lynch. Devin and Russ both followed Epi a little too blindly in my opinion, and made sure to mention that they were following Epi's lead and not thinking for themselves. Now Devin is all like "It's my fault, kill me". It's not really a civvie reaction but then again it's not a baddie reaction either.

Russ has the "busy bein busy" excuse which makes it hard to look at his game objectively, but so far I don't like what I've seen from Russ's posts. He doesn't offer many clear thoughts, just vague possible suspicions. I feel that baddies give these vague thoughts more than civvies do. But I don't know Russ's game.

Vompatti, as stated above, only comes in to vote for himself. It's hard to make a case against him, but it's even harder to make a case for him being civvie. His complete apathy for what we're trying to accomplish in this game of mafia is unsettling.

When I asked what DP's thoughts on the game were, once upon a time, he replied to me "None." And that's been par for the course the whole game so far for DP.

It's not funny anymore you guys. If you're civvies, you need to help catch baddies. Anyone who's not actively trying to do that is probably scum. On a related note, if A Person votes for himself again, my vote might go there instead. Seriously, let's stop clowning around and nab us a baddie.

I couldn't have worded this better myself. I've seen too many people voting for themselves, randomizing votes, giving replies of the "because I can" or "I feel
like it" type. How you you even catch baddies on this site. It's really frustrating. I don't get the point in playing if you're just voting for yourself or not participating at all. If you win, it's not because you were good, neither as a civ nor as a baddie, it's because you were too chicken to actually get into the game. So what's the point?

[Vompatti]

I really don't see what the problem is. It's not like you're any more likely to catch a baddie by making up arguments than by randomizing or by voting for yourself.

[FZ.]

I really don't see what the problem is. It's not like you're any more likely to catch a baddie by making up arguments than by randomizing or by voting for yourself.

Seriously? First, if you're not a baddie yourself, how is voting yourself going to help catch baddies. Unless you are one, and in that case, why are you playing in the first place? Second, if there's no point in looking for baddies other than randomizing, just go and fill a lottery ticket. Again, why play this game? No offense, of course.
I just don't get your logic

[Turnip Head]

I really don't see what the problem is. It's not like you're any more likely to catch a baddie by making up arguments than by randomizing or by voting for yourself.

Wait... is that you Wazzipi?

[Vompatti]

I really don't see what the problem is. It's not like you're any more likely to catch a baddie by making up arguments than by randomizing or by voting for yourself.

Seriously? First, if you're not a baddie yourself, how is voting yourself going to help catch baddies. Unless you are one, and in that case, why are you playing in the first place? Second, if there's no point in looking for baddies other than randomizing, just go and fill a lottery ticket. Again, why play this game? No offense, of course.
I just don't get your logic

I don't remember if I'm a baddie or not. This has been my strategy from the beginning and I truly believe it will pay out in the end.

[FZ.]

I really don't see what the problem is. It's not like you're any more likely to catch a baddie by making up arguments than by randomizing or by voting for yourself.

Seriously? First, if you're not a baddie yourself, how is voting yourself going to help catch baddies. Unless you are one, and in that case, why are you playing in the first place? Second, if there's no point in looking for baddies other than randomizing, just go and fill a lottery ticket. Again, why play this game? No offense, of course.
I just don't get your logic

I don't remember if I'm a baddie or not. This has been my strategy from the beginning and I truly believe it will pay out in the end.

Pay out as in you surviving, or as in your team winning?

[Vompatti]

I really don't see what the problem is. It's not like you're any more likely to catch a baddie by making up arguments than by randomizing or by voting for yourself.

Seriously? First, if you're not a baddie yourself, how is voting yourself going to help catch baddies. Unless you are one, and in that case, why are you playing in the first place? Second, if there's no point in looking for baddies other than randomizing, just go and fill a lottery ticket. Again, why play this game? No offense, of course.
I just don't get your logic

I don't remember if I'm a baddie or not. This has been my strategy from the beginning and I truly believe it will pay out in the end.

Pay out as in you surviving, or as in your team winning?

Both.

[S~V~S]

Ah, I see Vomp is using similar strategies in both games. Poor FZ, he's really messing with you, lol~

OK, I will think about this at work today. If i had to vote now, it would be between MP, Devin, & DP. Normally a post like Bullz' analysis of the Mongoose voters, but only the low posters, would ping the hell out of me, but I don't know that i agree with Epi on him, and he made some good points. Especially about DP~ I know DPs game pretty well, both bad and civ, and I don't see civ DP jumping on a bandwagon, he would vote a tangent, or even randomize later into the game than Day One. So that was rather blendy, and there is a difference between quiet and blendy.

MP (waits for the "No U") has made multiple versions of the same post this game:

"Sorry I am catching up"
"OK I have to catch up"
"I have not totally read the thread, but I have a few impressions"

"I always think SVS is bad, so i also think she is bad here"
"SVS made a suspicious vote for Mongoose"
"Not seeing the Devin suspicion"

This sounds to me like you are suspecting me becasue you think people expect you to suspect me, and if you did not suspect ME, they would suspect YOU. And that sounds like a baddie making an easy vote. I don;t think a civ MP would fall back on that when he was not caught up to the thread, and it sounds to me like you are trying to sound civ. And quite a few people made much more suspicious votes for Mongoose than I (like Devin, for example). I stated my reasons for suspecting her clearly, repeatedly & early.

And Devins whole game has pinged me since the beginning, and I have said so more than once. That last vote especially.

So off to work, between this being a super busy time of year for me at work, and our hiliday party being today, doubt i will be back until tonight.

[Turnip Head]

I don't remember if I'm a baddie or not. This has been my strategy from the beginning and I truly believe it will pay out in the end.

So if you don't remember if you're a baddie or not, how can you send in your PMs? Does this mean you don't have a role that sends in a power? Or are you missing your PM's?

[Bullzeye]

OK, I will think about this at work today. If i had to vote now, it would be between MP, Devin, & DP. Normally a post like Bullz' analysis of the Mongoose voters, but only the low posters, would ping the hell out of me, but I don't know that i agree with Epi on him, and he made some good points. Especially about DP~ I know DPs game pretty well, both bad and civ, and I don't see civ DP jumping on a bandwagon, he would vote a tangent, or even randomize later into the game than Day One. So that was rather blendy, and there is a difference between quiet and blendy.

It's not like I said I'm only looking at the low posters. I intend to go through the other five as well at some point. But I'm trying to write 1000 words per day to get an essay out of the way before Christmas and I've got interviews to write, surveys to make, exam revision and if I'm really lucky and get through everything quickly enough I can start to write up my other 10,000 word dissertation (just to give an idea of how busy I am). FWIW Epi is definitely wrong about me. I think he knows this. I think he knew he was wrong about Mongoose. I don't think he cares about either of these things.

[Vompatti]

I don't remember if I'm a baddie or not. This has been my strategy from the beginning and I truly believe it will pay out in the end.

So if you don't remember if you're a baddie or not, how can you send in your PMs? Does this mean you don't have a role that sends in a power? Or are you missing your PM's?

Civvies send PMs too.

[Bullzeye]

Going through the rest of the Mongoose voters, beginning with Devin. On Day One he voted CBK because her day 0 vote was for Titan Towers, widely thought to be a baddie option. He got a bit frustrated that some people weren't seeing his point of view on that. This is also where one of his first requests to die comes in:

On the same note: Illogical, MP?? If you were the unknown Warrior, would you not want to vote for PARTS UNKNOWN!?!
Using that same line of thought (AS I FUCKING EXPLAINED IN THE POST ABOVE!) if you were a McMahon, would you not logically think that you would benefit from going to Titan Towers?? Even though the host didn't give you this information!?!

This isn't fucking rocket science people!!! I may still be wrong, but I found something that I thought I could go on. If this still isn't enough to satisfy all of you, then go right ahead and fucking kill me because it isn't worth my time and effort to go any further with this!!!

When I talk about people latching onto Epig's thoughts, this is a perfect example of what I mean:

Mp, you want my opinion? I will vote anyone Epi votes for this time (as long as it's within the range of people I am thinking of). As SVS said before, he shook the mighty tree and got some great results. And I want to see more results dammit! Mongoose has been a bit strange (disregarding the OT stuff). AP is the one making me most suspicious of her, though. He is super talkative for the normal Matt (I like this! Unfortunately for him it makes me suspicious of him...).

I don't understand why any civ ever would say they're voting for whoever another player votes unless they know for certain that that player is a civ. Doesn't make sense, especially as there's no real reason for someone to be that sure of anybody's role this early in the game. Devin voted before Epi in the end, but still based his vote on who he thought Epi would vote for:

I will go ahead and vote, too, so I don't forget. Though I said I'd wait for Epi, I can't see him passing a Goose vote today. If he does....

*votes*

I just don't understand the logic of following another player around. If they were teammates and one was new, maybe. Or maybe Devin is bad and trying to make Epi look bad by association? But that said, I don't have the best feelings about Epi right now anyway. I suppose they could be on opposing teams. He also seems to be trying to solicit votes. Early in the game he said it as a joke, then later out of frustration but now he seems to be more serious about it:

Hardly, I want you to vote for me.

How selfish of me. Should I have taken the blame for my own actions and then asked everyone to kill Epi? Did I do it wrong? Is that not the correct way to play? Do you request NKs and lynches differently on ksite?
I do it this way: I mistrusted Epi's giant case on Mongoose. So kill me.

People mistrust others all the time and he was far from the only person to do it in that lynch. So why would we lynch him specifically out of 10 living voters? He's not even claiming the lynch was his fault, just that he should die for his vote. Doesn't make any sense and I have no idea what to think of it.

Looking at Devin's posts, he's posted as much as I have but a lot of his posts are just smileys, or OT, or jokes. His most recent at the time of writing this is just one word. He has shared some suspicions but hasn't gone into very much depth at all. I'm fairly suspicious of him, mostly because of his constant requests for death and the fact he voted purely based on the fact that he expected Epi to be voting the same person. Devin is a huge question mark for me.

[Epignosis]

FWIW Epi is definitely wrong about me. I think he knows this. I think he knew he was wrong about Mongoose. I don't think he cares about either of these things.

This is a highly suspect thing to say, given that there are two bad teams, not one, not to mention dangerous independents. How can I possibly know I was wrong about Mongoose being bad? Even if I were a role checker, I voted Mongoose Day 1.

[Bullzeye]

FWIW Epi is definitely wrong about me. I think he knows this. I think he knew he was wrong about Mongoose. I don't think he cares about either of these things.

This is a highly suspect thing to say, given that there are two bad teams, not one, not to mention dangerous independents. How can I possibly know I was wrong about Mongoose being bad? Even if I were a role checker, I voted Mongoose Day 1.

I'm not surprised you said that. It seems everything I say is highly suspect to you. What I mean is your case on me isn't that good, and I don't think the case on Mongoose was either. I think you realised that but went with it anyway. When you voted her day two you said you were doing it because you 'were responsible for her lynch'. It sounded to me like you didn't really want to vote that way but felt like you should for whatever reason.

[Draconus]

Devin and Russ both followed Epi a little too blindly in my opinion, and made sure to mention that they were following Epi's lead and not thinking for themselves. Now Devin is all like "It's my fault, kill me". It's not really a civvie reaction but then again it's not a baddie reaction either.

Finally, someone with a decent head on their shoulders. Thank you.

I already delted the rest of your quote, but you mentioned potentially voting A Person. I was seriously considering this, too. However, the only evidence I have against him is Epi's giant case against him and Mongoose. After Mongoose's flip I am seriously reconsidering an AP vote, now. I do not trust Epi anymore as I no longer trust my earlier civ read of him.
The paranoid/overly analytical side of me wants to think that Epi and AP are on the same baddie team, and it was Epi's plan to build a giant case to get Mongoose lynched, including AP in his case to the effect that it would look like he and mongoose were on the same team. And when Mongoose flips civ in the lynch, AP would have some serious civ street cred.
... Typing that out made me re-reconsider an AP vote... I need to think about this some more.

Linki: Bullz: No matter which way you end up voting (myself or someone else), thank you for going to the trouble of analyzing my posts.

[Draconus]

FWIW Epi is definitely wrong about me. I think he knows this. I think he knew he was wrong about Mongoose. I don't think he cares about either of these things.

This is a highly suspect thing to say, given that there are two bad teams, not one, not to mention dangerous independents. How can I possibly know I was wrong about Mongoose being bad? Even if I were a role checker, I voted Mongoose Day 1.

I'm not surprised you said that. It seems everything I say is highly suspect to you. What I mean is your case on me isn't that good, and I don't think the case on Mongoose was either. I think you realised that but went with it anyway. When you voted her day two you said you were doing it because you 'were responsible for her lynch'. It sounded to me like you didn't really want to vote that way but felt like you should for whatever reason.

FWIW I trust you more than I trust Epi at this point, Bullzeye. I will not be voting for you any time soon based on his case alone.

[Bullzeye]

Linki: Bullz: No matter which way you end up voting (myself or someone else), thank you for going to the trouble of analyzing my posts.

I know it was basically a rhetorical question but I'd be interested in your response to this:

People mistrust others all the time and [Devin] was far from the only person to do it in that lynch. So why would we lynch him specifically out of 10 living voters?

[Draconus]

Linki: Bullz: No matter which way you end up voting (myself or someone else), thank you for going to the trouble of analyzing my posts.

I know it was basically a rhetorical question but I'd be interested in your response to this:

People mistrust others all the time and [Devin] was far from the only person to do it in that lynch. So why would we lynch him specifically out of 10 living voters?

I realize my play style makes me stand out among the rest of the voters. I use this style when I don't care what happens to me, personally. I want to contribute to the greater cause, but I've failed at that thus far. I have little to no read on the rest of the Goose voters. That being said I was not the first to vote for mongoose (I tend to trust Russti more than most people, but that may be because 2 out of the 3 most recent games I've played I ended up with BTSC with him. Not the case here, so I don't know where he stands. Lizzy... Is Lizzy.) And I was far from the last person to bandwagon vote mongoose. The only person I am tweaked by in the mongoose vote is S-V-S (not including Epi, of course).

Sorry Mongoose. People do tend to misunderstand your game

Of all the votes yesterday, both for and against mongoose, the one who tweaked me the most was Devin; he sounded like he was absolutely fawning on Epi, then he voted before Epi did? There have been a lot of things going on in this thread, and maybe we can sort them out a bit better. I am looking forward to K4J being able to speak again.

So why did she vote mongoose?

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/postin ... =2&p=45700
No further justification as far as I could see. Is there anything you can give me to clear your vote up, SVS?

To those who I KNOW will respond to this post saying that I am deflecting attention away from myslef, or back-tracking on my "Kill Me" comments. I am not. I still believe I should die and will not try to dissuade anyone from voting for me. I am just giving you my thoughts in an attempt to help before I die. Vote away!

[Draconus]

Ok. So the link will take you to a quote-post screen. But the line that I wanted to put focus on was the "Let me add a few dribbles to your drool puddle" post made by SVS when she voted for mongoose.

In response to SVS: I genuinely thought I had a civ read on Epig. I was clearly wrong to trust his giant case. As for voting for mongoose before Epig, I knew he would be voting for her (and he did), I just wanted to get my vote in before I forgot to because I knew I'd be busy after work.

[Bullzeye]

I realize my play style makes me stand out among the rest of the voters. I use this style when I don't care what happens to me, personally. I want to contribute to the greater cause, but I've failed at that thus far. I have little to no read on the rest of the Goose voters. That being said I was not the first to vote for mongoose (I tend to trust Russti more than most people, but that may be because 2 out of the 3 most recent games I've played I ended up with BTSC with him. Not the case here, so I don't know where he stands. Lizzy... Is Lizzy.) And I was far from the last person to bandwagon vote mongoose. The only person I am tweaked by in the mongoose vote is S-V-S (not including Epi, of course).

But if you're a civ why would you argue for your own lynch? If we lynch you because you wanted to be lynched, that doesn't really help the greater cause. Everyone who voted you will say you did it because you were literally asking for it. You can help us more by being alive, surely.

[Draconus]

I realize my play style makes me stand out among the rest of the voters. I use this style when I don't care what happens to me, personally. I want to contribute to the greater cause, but I've failed at that thus far. I have little to no read on the rest of the Goose voters. That being said I was not the first to vote for mongoose (I tend to trust Russti more than most people, but that may be because 2 out of the 3 most recent games I've played I ended up with BTSC with him. Not the case here, so I don't know where he stands. Lizzy... Is Lizzy.) And I was far from the last person to bandwagon vote mongoose. The only person I am tweaked by in the mongoose vote is S-V-S (not including Epi, of course).

But if you're a civ why would you argue for your own lynch? If we lynch you because you wanted to be lynched, that doesn't really help the greater cause. Everyone who voted you will say you did it because you were literally asking for it. You can help us more by being alive, surely.

I understand. I didn't want to come out and say it, but the request was partly to the baddies, too. I have very little energy left to give this game. And I apologize to our host for that because I love the topic, and his posts have been great so far! And the roles are very well put together, great job there, DF!

Ok.. I will try to contribute more to the cause before I die.

I've thought about it some more, and I'm going to vote A Person based on my potentially crazy analysis above. If anyone doesn't like it... I don't care. I just hope it gives us something to go on.

[Boomslang]

I don't remember if I'm a baddie or not. This has been my strategy from the beginning and I truly believe it will pay out in the end.

So if you don't remember if you're a baddie or not, how can you send in your PMs? Does this mean you don't have a role that sends in a power? Or are you missing your PM's?

Civvies send PMs too.

Is there an exploding brain emoticon? Because there should be. I've seen whacky Vomps before, but this is stretching credibility even for me.

[Draconus]

FYI I only have 3 days this week to prepare for Year end close. Also, I have plans to begin celebrating the holiday later today, so I may not be back on today.
MP, if you see anything I need to respond to, please give me a text.
Thanks.

[Russtifinko]

Wow, now things are getting interesting!

Besides [A Person], though, I personally think that some more vocal debates have a better chance of leading us to baddies immediately than quiet players do. If others agree that would obviously work out well for me, since I've been quiet this game, so take it with a grain of salt.

Interesting. Why do you think this?

I think this because of a gut feeling that the major debates thus far this game have not been civ-on-civ. Unfortunately, since you seem a very analytical player, that might not make you happy, but it's my impression. I don't know who's on what side of these debates yet, which you probably also don't like.

That's great BWT but... aren't you dead, bro?

^ this made me chortle aloud.

But for those of you who prefer I "act like a civ" (whatever that means), I'll show that Dom is speaking from somewhere other than his mouth (or fingertips). Observe:

1. "Epig is probably bad."

Again, the use of the term "probably" is unwarranted.

2. "He has backpedaled on his Mongoose suspicion so hard."

Would anyone like to confirm this? I'm pretty sure I stuck by my Mongoose suspicion. By, you know, actually voting for her. After I had considered several angles for quite some time, asking for clarification, and listening to what others had to say.

3. "He dropped his K4J suspicion."

Dropped it? Show me where. I challenge you.

4. "Civvie epig doesn't do this."

Dom has hosted me once. I was Night killed first. I'm not sure what makes him an authority on my "civvie" game, a claim that is even more astonishing...since I don't have a "civvie" game.

5. "He is throwing things at the wall to see what sticks. His pasta isn't ready yet, I see, though, because you are peeling everything off for him."

If you throw pasta to the wall and it sticks, then you have probably...

Sorry, I already told you this. Good luck with your linguine, Felix.

I found this post very interesting. Epi argues pretty forcefully that he didn't back off of Mongoose, but my thought reading yesterday was that distancing was exactly what he was doing. After building the entire huge case against her, he voted for her relatively late, and he spent a BUNCH of time talking about how he was sketched out that so many people were following his lead. When he wrote up his vote post, it actually read to me as if he were dragging his feet about it and only voted for Mongoose out of some weird sense of responsibility and had dropped his suspicion of her entriely. I'm starting to think he was setting Devin, me, and others up for lynch, and it seems to be working so far.

tl;dr: I don't see why Epi would call Dom out so hard on a point that seems fairly obvious to me. Maybe others could weigh in on this?

As a relatively minor other note on this post, this: "I don't have a "civvie" game." read as ingenuine to me. It's super cocky, and I know as a civ I personally never ever feel cocky because I don't know what the hell is going on. I've seen Epi be bad a few times now, and I do think that if he has a baddie game, cockiness is probably part of it. So I don't feel good about Epi the tiniest bit this game. I'll probably vote him today, in fact.

I don't remember if I'm a baddie or not. This has been my strategy from the beginning and I truly believe it will pay out in the end.

Don't you mean you turely believe it will pay out?

Ah, I see Vomp is using similar strategies in both games. Poor FZ, he's really messing with you, lol~

OK, I will think about this at work today. If i had to vote now, it would be between MP, Devin, & DP. Normally a post like Bullz' analysis of the Mongoose voters, but only the low posters, would ping the hell out of me, but I don't know that i agree with Epi on him, and he made some good points. Especially about DP~ I know DPs game pretty well, both bad and civ, and I don't see civ DP jumping on a bandwagon, he would vote a tangent, or even randomize later into the game than Day One. So that was rather blendy, and there is a difference between quiet and blendy.

MP (waits for the "No U") has made multiple versions of the same post this game:

"Sorry I am catching up"
"OK I have to catch up"
"I have not totally read the thread, but I have a few impressions"

"I always think SVS is bad, so i also think she is bad here"
"SVS made a suspicious vote for Mongoose"
"Not seeing the Devin suspicion"

This sounds to me like you are suspecting me becasue you think people expect you to suspect me, and if you did not suspect ME, they would suspect YOU. And that sounds like a baddie making an easy vote. I don;t think a civ MP would fall back on that when he was not caught up to the thread, and it sounds to me like you are trying to sound civ. And quite a few people made much more suspicious votes for Mongoose than I (like Devin, for example). I stated my reasons for suspecting her clearly, repeatedly & early.

And Devins whole game has pinged me since the beginning, and I have said so more than once. That last vote especially.

So off to work, between this being a super busy time of year for me at work, and our hiliday party being today, doubt i will be back until tonight.

I also found this post super interesting. I never have any sort of read on DP, so I'm glad to hear from someone who does. I don't know what DP would or wouldn't do, but I have seen him throw away votes or self-vote much later in games than this.

I see your point about MP being less involved than usual, even for a busy MP. It is the holidays, though, and I'm certainly not one to throw stones as far as uninvolvement this game. I'll try to keep him in mind, but what I've seen so far doesn't make me think he's certainly bad. And to be fair, you do always suspect MP, so I'll take it with a grain of salt.

When I talk about people latching onto Epig's thoughts, this is a perfect example of what I mean:

Mp, you want my opinion? I will vote anyone Epi votes for this time (as long as it's within the range of people I am thinking of). As SVS said before, he shook the mighty tree and got some great results. And I want to see more results dammit! Mongoose has been a bit strange (disregarding the OT stuff). AP is the one making me most suspicious of her, though. He is super talkative for the normal Matt (I like this! Unfortunately for him it makes me suspicious of him...).

I don't understand why any civ ever would say they're voting for whoever another player votes unless they know for certain that that player is a civ. Doesn't make sense, especially as there's no real reason for someone to be that sure of anybody's role this early in the game. Devin voted before Epi in the end, but still based his vote on who he thought Epi would vote for:
I'm fairly suspicious of him, mostly because of his constant requests for death and the fact he voted purely based on the fact that he expected Epi to be voting the same person. Devin is a huge question mark for me.

This is an interesting point. I do disagree with Dev's entire idea of voting whoever Epi did and not voting based on the case against Mongoose, and I can see why people think he's bad. I am not one of those people, though. I don't claim to be an expert on civvie Dev, so I could be wrong, but I think I'm seeing him here so far. To be sure, his play has been uncharacteristically sloppy so far, regardless of role. Why he'd want to be lynched I'm not sure, but I know he truly cares about his teammates when he has BTSC. I don't think he'd ask to die if he had BTSC for their sakes. As a civ you feel less connected to your team, so it doesn't seem as harmful to them to be killed, even though it really is.

Those are my thoughts so far on people I'm familiar with who have hit my radar. I have had a surprisingly hard time this game reading the KSiters. Thanks to you guys for coming in; the fresh blood is knocking me (and many others, I'm sure) out of comfort zones. I also appreciate you being so active and expecting us to be. I used to do demand more active civs too, but eventually gave up, so hopefully it happens.

Linki: the posts Dev has just been making reinforce my read that he is civ and just very busy and low on energy, like me. I will now officially be suspicious of his voters.

[Lizzy]

^KRussti, I'm not reading that if it kills me.

I'll vote for Bullz because I said I would and I'm a man of my word

[Russtifinko]

I think Boomslang has a point that Vomps is just being silly now. I appreciate the humor of your play Vomps, even though I think it's a little mean to try getting under new players' nerves so much. But how are we supposed to play mafia with you when you refuse to do the things that the game is about, like talking about on-topic things?

I reread Dom, k4j, and A Person. I have absolutely nothing on A Person, he could very well be good or bad. I remember thinking he was suspicious a few days ago, but I can't remember why now. It just seems a standard game for him.

Dom has been contributing tons of good analysis, more than I'm used to from him. He seems to be thinking along similar lines as me regarding Epi, but he reached his conclusions before the Mongoose lynch, which I wish I had done. K4J uses TONS of multiquotes and abbreviations I don't know like IGMEOY and FOS, and makes long posts. Reading his posts sheds some light on KSiters for me. I'd love ot hear more from Summer regarding the suspicions directed at her (him?) especially.

I'm starting to think it's possible that MP, S~V~S, and Epi are all bad. Not necessarily on the same team, but bad.

I also think it's possible Mata was, because of the post below. She could've just been wrong about lots of stuff, but her opinions are so different from what I'm thinking, and her Mongoose vote seemed so reluctant. People are wondering why Mata got killed, because she may have drawn some suspicion today. I know when I'm a baddie, I consider other baddie teams a bigger threat than civs. If the other team thought she was bad, why not eliminate her instead of hoping she got lynched and waiting 2 nights? If she is bad, that assumes the other baddie team wasn't worried that one of their own would be under suspicion if she wasn't around. Obviously it's academic at this point, I'm just saying. Hopefully it makes sense to people.

I am not suspicious of mongoose because of the mistake or her otw view on lynching baddies. But I do think she might have too many irons in the fire (as in juggling games and chat rooms). I am trusting SVS right now, she seems her civvie self, (I know ppl hate it when their styles get compared, but it's all I have to look at this early) and I don't see a reason right now to mistrust Epig.

linki: Lizzy, fair enough. I wouldn't either if I weren't me. People were demanding more participation, and I got free time, so they got it all in one chunk.

[Russtifinko]

Voting Epi. He's by far my biggest suspicion, and I doubt anything could change that by bedtime tonight.

[Epignosis]

FWIW Epi is definitely wrong about me. I think he knows this. I think he knew he was wrong about Mongoose. I don't think he cares about either of these things.

This is a highly suspect thing to say, given that there are two bad teams, not one, not to mention dangerous independents. How can I possibly know I was wrong about Mongoose being bad? Even if I were a role checker, I voted Mongoose Day 1.

I'm not surprised you said that. It seems everything I say is highly suspect to you. What I mean is your case on me isn't that good, and I don't think the case on Mongoose was either. I think you realised that but went with it anyway. When you voted her day two you said you were doing it because you 'were responsible for her lynch'. It sounded to me like you didn't really want to vote that way but felt like you should for whatever reason.

My vote against Mongoose was genuine. Mongoose was my top suspect. I'm not sure you would have liked the alternative, since my #2 suspicion was you. And with you going on about me knowing I'm wrong about people and voting them anyway...that's a hell of an accusation.

I don't like how you grilled Mongoose Day 1, and quickly backed off completely without stating why at the time (though you had plenty to say about it afterwards).

When I first posted against Mongoose I was a bit suspicious of her, but over time other players either went off her or said they thought she wasn't bad. Her responses to me also made me feel better. That left me with no suspicions so I did what I always do on day one in that case. I didn't see the need in posting every single thought I had about my vote as they occurred.

Okay. Some observations.

1. I just poured through Day 1 between the post in which you grilled Mongoose and the post where you said you would not be voting Mongoose. Not one person said they thought she wasn't bad. The closest you come is Summer saying "I don't think you are all that suspicious," but in that same post, Summer implied that she didn't find anyone suspicious. MP also said he was reading "a civvie Mongoose," however, he immediately followed up with "but," stating that MR had a good point against Mongoose.

2. Ironically, you are giving Devin and others the shake down because they followed someone else's opinion, which, in the above post, after the fact (rather than at the time) you confess to doing the same thing.

3. That's fair enough.

4. What you always do on Day one, then, is vote for a low poster. While I don't begrudge anyone their Day 1 methods (I don't agree with half of them), I find it unbelievable that with all the other discussion going on, and with all the people who had received votes, you had no other suspicions. After correcting Mongoose on the importance of Day 1 and all the information it could bring, you voted for a fluff reason.

And this reaction here is what really does it for me:

I will be voting for you next. Probably.

Is this even if Mongoose flips civ? Even though you think I'm her teammate? By all means push for my lynch, all you'll do is look bad when my role is revealed.

I'd like to think I'm not the kind of guy to fall for the gambler's fallacy.

[Tangrowth]

Wow, okay. Finally have some time. So sorry for my thread absences. For those who are saying I'm less involved than usual, yes, I am less involved than usual in all 3 games I am in right now, and that is because it is the holiday season. I have a vacation from the 30th to the 8th that I am planning for; I was gone Friday evening through Sunday spending time with Daisy's family (if you really want someone to back that up, just ask Daisy or CBK); and I've also been spending time with my family before that. Not to mention the fact that I just recently 'finished' up applications to 11 PhD programs.

Russ, can you explain what it is that makes me bad? First you say SVS has a few good points about me being less involved, then the next post you say, me, her, and Epig are all possibly bad.

Regarding Devin, my thoughts have been clear. He always asks for people to vote for him -- see almost every single game he's ever played. As a civvie, he usually does so out of frustration, and especially more so when his RL is busier; as a baddie, he does it just to fuck with people. I am seeing a distracted civvie Devin here more than a maniacal baddie one, personally, and although I've wavered on that some, I'm back to more firmly believing that.

Regarding Vomps, yes, it's just Vomps. He acts this way a lot. Sometimes he actually contributes more than others; other times, he is WAY off the wall and contributes nothing or next to nothing. He seems to just be doing it because that's how enjoys the game. If players think he should go because of it, by all means vote for him, but it's normal behavior and it makes him next to impossible to read. For me, anyway, there are bigger fish to fry right now. Similar thoughts re: AP and Lizzy, though I do admit I have been pinged by Lizzy most so this game. AP seemed civvie to me earlier on based on his early thread contributions and tone/behavior.

Regarding DP, I noticed some players were talking about how he doesn't generally bandwagon, even when busy. This is true. Definitely has my eye, but I'm not totally sure what to think about him yet.

Okay, and now to address where I'm at. I was most considering Mata and S~V~S for my votes today going into the period, but then Mata died, so my vote seems easier. There are others I'm seriously heavily eyeballing based on their Mongoose bandwagon votes, but I feel most comfortable with an S~V~S vote. She CLEARLY is manipulating the thread.

MP, I am NOT going to quote your post and then try to surgically cut it down so i can answer one question, lol~

The Sock Says: Can you think of any examples re: your Mongoose comments here? I'm not sure I've ever noticed anything like that, but I do tend to think she has distinct playing styles when she has different alignments.

What's throwing me off about Mongoose LATELY is that she seems to have different styles on different sites. What she is posting here seems much more of what I'm used to, whereas in the RM and KSite games lately she seemed a bit off to me.

She has addressed this before, in other games, but for me, her baddie game was beautiful in AG, and she played a very light hearted fun, sweet game there. I know she has said it was due to the sockpuppets, but I thought of all the people playing, she was most obviously HER through the disguise. But i cannot read her for shit, which is why I would like to reread her in both threads. I thought that the observation FZ made, that she seemed to be playing different games at the same time in different threads was an interesting point. We might have a baddie Mongoose in one thread, and a civ in the other, although I could not say if that were the case which was which.

But I think you learn more about a persons game hosting them that playing with them, tbh.

I asked her to clarify on the Mongoose being bad one way or another thing due to her sounding 'sweet' or not.

She then proceeds to completely manipulate the thread and after Mongoose flips, here is what she says:

Sorry Mongoose. People do tend to misunderstand your game

Of all the votes yesterday, both for and against mongoose, the one who tweaked me the most was Devin; he sounded like he was absolutely fawning on Epi, then he voted before Epi did? There have been a lot of things going on in this thread, and maybe we can sort them out a bit better. I am looking forward to K4J being able to speak again.

No kidding?

Also, sorry to say I couldn't go back and re-read, I literally have like no time, I barely have enough time to keep up with the thread. Though I do think the way people avoided voting Mongoose D1 after they mentioned something about her and then THREW THEIR VOTE AWAY (S~V~S, Bass, Devin, I'm looking at you -- at least Elo is consistent, you bunch are pinging me) should be looked at. I will be looking at them whenever I have tiome, probably Monday after work or maybe Sunday evening after I get home.

What do you mean, I threw my vote away? If i vote in a way other than one that makes sense to you, i threw my vote away?

Since when has anything i have done gamewise made any sense to you?

And then regarding her vote... she was very strong about believing Mongoose was bad, even as early as Day 1, yet where did she vote? Not Mongoose.

This is NOT a matter of gamewise making sense; it's a matter of contradiction.

So you are falling back on tone? How lame, lol. You and Dom both, actually. K4J has a reason at least, although i have explained the reasoning behind my suspicion of Mongoose umpteen times. Perhaps she does not like conflict and that was why she kept trying to change the subject when i was trying to pin something down in her responses.

I have said it several times, and my story is not going to change since it is the truth.

So please explain to me how the above is tone.

Now for a current response...

Ah, I see Vomp is using similar strategies in both games. Poor FZ, he's really messing with you, lol~

OK, I will think about this at work today. If i had to vote now, it would be between MP, Devin, & DP. Normally a post like Bullz' analysis of the Mongoose voters, but only the low posters, would ping the hell out of me, but I don't know that i agree with Epi on him, and he made some good points. Especially about DP~ I know DPs game pretty well, both bad and civ, and I don't see civ DP jumping on a bandwagon, he would vote a tangent, or even randomize later into the game than Day One. So that was rather blendy, and there is a difference between quiet and blendy.

MP (waits for the "No U") has made multiple versions of the same post this game:

"Sorry I am catching up"
"OK I have to catch up"
"I have not totally read the thread, but I have a few impressions"

"I always think SVS is bad, so i also think she is bad here"
"SVS made a suspicious vote for Mongoose"
"Not seeing the Devin suspicion"

This sounds to me like you are suspecting me becasue you think people expect you to suspect me, and if you did not suspect ME, they would suspect YOU. And that sounds like a baddie making an easy vote. I don;t think a civ MP would fall back on that when he was not caught up to the thread, and it sounds to me like you are trying to sound civ. And quite a few people made much more suspicious votes for Mongoose than I (like Devin, for example). I stated my reasons for suspecting her clearly, repeatedly & early.

And Devins whole game has pinged me since the beginning, and I have said so more than once. That last vote especially.

So off to work, between this being a super busy time of year for me at work, and our hiliday party being today, doubt i will be back until tonight.

This is ridiculous and only makes me more sure that you are bad. (not the DP part, the rest of it)

Yes, I have been CONSTANTLY behind, and I wonder why that could be? Also, I've made plenty of contributions to this game beyond just what you point out here -- yet you bring up this suspicion of me all of a sudden because you know I'm onto something. To say I have made "multiple versions of the same post this game" is misrepresenting. And yes, I do like to keep everyone in tabs with what's going on in my life -- but I do it all the time, regardless of alignment.

Where did I always say I always think you're bad? It's true we never can see eye to eye, but that doesn't mean I always suspect you. In fact, recently I've not gunned after you in a few games and called your alignment correctly. Not that I'm infallible by any means. But more misrepresentation.

And I am NOT seeing the Devin suspicion; I've said multiple times over and over why. Same with Mongoose.

I'm not falling back on anything. You helped pushed the thread to Mongoose; you've said contradictory statements; you now try to make up this BS case against me to get me lynched.

How is Devin's vote MORE suspicious than yours? Could it just not mean he has less time than you? Yes, he could be baddie, but his behavior overall just doesn't say so to me. Not EVERY single voter of Mongoose that bandwagoned has to be baddie. Civvies bandwagon all the time. That's mafia. Of course it comes down to judgment and analyzing actions.

[Epignosis]

But for those of you who prefer I "act like a civ" (whatever that means), I'll show that Dom is speaking from somewhere other than his mouth (or fingertips). Observe:

1. "Epig is probably bad."

Again, the use of the term "probably" is unwarranted.

2. "He has backpedaled on his Mongoose suspicion so hard."

Would anyone like to confirm this? I'm pretty sure I stuck by my Mongoose suspicion. By, you know, actually voting for her. After I had considered several angles for quite some time, asking for clarification, and listening to what others had to say.

3. "He dropped his K4J suspicion."

Dropped it? Show me where. I challenge you.

4. "Civvie epig doesn't do this."

Dom has hosted me once. I was Night killed first. I'm not sure what makes him an authority on my "civvie" game, a claim that is even more astonishing...since I don't have a "civvie" game.

5. "He is throwing things at the wall to see what sticks. His pasta isn't ready yet, I see, though, because you are peeling everything off for him."

If you throw pasta to the wall and it sticks, then you have probably...

Sorry, I already told you this. Good luck with your linguine, Felix.

I found this post very interesting. Epi argues pretty forcefully that he didn't back off of Mongoose, but my thought reading yesterday was that distancing was exactly what he was doing. After building the entire huge case against her, he voted for her relatively late, and he spent a BUNCH of time talking about how he was sketched out that so many people were following his lead. When he wrote up his vote post, it actually read to me as if he were dragging his feet about it and only voted for Mongoose out of some weird sense of responsibility and had dropped his suspicion of her entriely. I'm starting to think he was setting Devin, me, and others up for lynch, and it seems to be working so far.

Wait a minute. You're starting to think I was setting you and Devin and others up for a lynch? Why, because you refused to think for yourself and just accept what I said?

Just popping in to vote. I'll be really sad if Epi has fooled/misled ne again, but there's no denying mongoose is acting weird. I don't think the cross-posting makes her bad, but general tone has made me a bit nervous

Tell me Russ, did I fool or mislead you? Or was I setting you up?

Yes! My plan is working! My ingenuous scheme to suspect a civilian, build a case against her, get a mob of other people to vote for her, get Devin to say he would vote however I voted but actually vote before I did, get Russ to put the responsibility of HIS vote on me ("fool/mislead"), and pretend to back down on my suspicion yet vote for Mongoose anyway is absolutely brilliant!

Because with a current status of 1 vote for me, 1 Vompatti self-vote, 1 vote for A Person, and 1 vote for Bullzeye, my diabolical scheme is working perfectly!



Please.

[Tangrowth]

FWIW Epi is definitely wrong about me. I think he knows this. I think he knew he was wrong about Mongoose. I don't think he cares about either of these things.

This is a highly suspect thing to say, given that there are two bad teams, not one, not to mention dangerous independents. How can I possibly know I was wrong about Mongoose being bad? Even if I were a role checker, I voted Mongoose Day 1.

I'm not surprised you said that. It seems everything I say is highly suspect to you. What I mean is your case on me isn't that good, and I don't think the case on Mongoose was either. I think you realised that but went with it anyway. When you voted her day two you said you were doing it because you 'were responsible for her lynch'. It sounded to me like you didn't really want to vote that way but felt like you should for whatever reason.

My vote against Mongoose was genuine. Mongoose was my top suspect. I'm not sure you would have liked the alternative, since my #2 suspicion was you. And with you going on about me knowing I'm wrong about people and voting them anyway...that's a hell of an accusation.

I don't like how you grilled Mongoose Day 1, and quickly backed off completely without stating why at the time (though you had plenty to say about it afterwards).

When I first posted against Mongoose I was a bit suspicious of her, but over time other players either went off her or said they thought she wasn't bad. Her responses to me also made me feel better. That left me with no suspicions so I did what I always do on day one in that case. I didn't see the need in posting every single thought I had about my vote as they occurred.

Okay. Some observations.

1. I just poured through Day 1 between the post in which you grilled Mongoose and the post where you said you would not be voting Mongoose. Not one person said they thought she wasn't bad. The closest you come is Summer saying "I don't think you are all that suspicious," but in that same post, Summer implied that she didn't find anyone suspicious. MP also said he was reading "a civvie Mongoose," however, he immediately followed up with "but," stating that MR had a good point against Mongoose.

2. Ironically, you are giving Devin and others the shake down because they followed someone else's opinion, which, in the above post, after the fact (rather than at the time) you confess to doing the same thing.

3. That's fair enough.

4. What you always do on Day one, then, is vote for a low poster. While I don't begrudge anyone their Day 1 methods (I don't agree with half of them), I find it unbelievable that with all the other discussion going on, and with all the people who had received votes, you had no other suspicions. After correcting Mongoose on the importance of Day 1 and all the information it could bring, you voted for a fluff reason.

And this reaction here is what really does it for me:

I will be voting for you next. Probably.

Is this even if Mongoose flips civ? Even though you think I'm her teammate? By all means push for my lynch, all you'll do is look bad when my role is revealed.

I'd like to think I'm not the kind of guy to fall for the gambler's fallacy.

Epig, just to play devil's advocate,

1. I did say repeatedly over and over I thought we were seeing a civvie Mongoose. Yes, I doubted it in that post for a split second, but I firmly believed she just made an honest mistake. I wasn't the only one.

2. Did Bullz actually vote for Mongoose though? He didn't blindly follow your vote. Russ, Bass, and Devin, Elo, and others, did. There's "following" and then there's taking it to the next level, voting, and contributing nothing else (nothing against any of the players I mentioned before, and I actually don't think half of them are baddie, though I do doubt the other half -- Bass and Russ), and has he not contributed to the game in other ways as well? I see Devin as likely civvie right now, and no offense meant, but Devin just came in and voted Mongoose based on your case. Bullzeye had contributed more during that period. Does it make him civvie? No, not necessarily at all. But it nullifies your point here.

4. Can a civvie not be guilty of this?

Now I don't know what's going on with Bullz this game, but I am currently reading him as just slightly more civvie currently, despite the well-illustrated points you've mad against him throughout this game. But I wanted to address these because I fear you're being way too singleminded in your suspicions so far; there is often a flipside to any point made, even if it is an excellent one. Do you have any thoughts about anyone else?

[Bullzeye]

My vote against Mongoose was genuine. Mongoose was my top suspect. I'm not sure you would have liked the alternative, since my #2 suspicion was you. And with you going on about me knowing I'm wrong about people and voting them anyway...that's a hell of an accusation.

It's just the impression I got from our exchange the other day.

I don't like how you grilled Mongoose Day 1, and quickly backed off completely without stating why at the time (though you had plenty to say about it afterwards).

I said I'd begun to have doubts, and then decided those doubts were strong enough to make me not vote her. I don't have to post every single thought I have.

1. I just poured through Day 1 between the post in which you grilled Mongoose and the post where you said you would not be voting Mongoose. Not one person said they thought she wasn't bad. The closest you come is Summer saying "I don't think you are all that suspicious," but in that same post, Summer implied that she didn't find anyone suspicious. MP also said he was reading "a civvie Mongoose," however, he immediately followed up with "but," stating that MR had a good point against Mongoose.

I was thinking of those and thought there had been others. It was more her responses to me that convinced me though. Before she was lynched I never said Mongoose was definitely a civ, just that I didn't want to vote for her and didn't think there was much of a case.

2. Ironically, you are giving Devin and others the shake down because they followed someone else's opinion, which, in the above post, after the fact (rather than at the time) you confess to doing the same thing.

I'm looking at Mongoose voters because I think a lot of them jumped on to an easy bandwagon lynch and I don't think that's a civ-friendly thing to do. It was only a couple who followed your logic.

4. What you always do on Day one, then, is vote for a low poster. While I don't begrudge anyone their Day 1 methods (I don't agree with half of them), I find it unbelievable that with all the other discussion going on, and with all the people who had received votes, you had no other suspicions. After correcting Mongoose on the importance of Day 1 and all the information it could bring, you voted for a fluff reason.

I don't know what else to say. I'd spent a lot of time on Mongoose and hadn't really considered other people. I stopped being so suspicious of her and was pretty much stuck. In about half the games I've ever played I vote for a no-show on day one because I'd rather not throw a random vote onto someone who is actually involved in the game.

And this reaction here is what really does it for me:

I will be voting for you next. Probably.

Is this even if Mongoose flips civ? Even though you think I'm her teammate? By all means push for my lynch, all you'll do is look bad when my role is revealed.

I'd like to think I'm not the kind of guy to fall for the gambler's fallacy.

You made a case for me being Mongoose's teammate. Mongoose was a civ, so I guess we are teammates, but your case on me seemed to rest on us being baddies together. Since she wasn't bad, I can't be her baddie teammate.

[Tangrowth]

But for those of you who prefer I "act like a civ" (whatever that means), I'll show that Dom is speaking from somewhere other than his mouth (or fingertips). Observe:

1. "Epig is probably bad."

Again, the use of the term "probably" is unwarranted.

2. "He has backpedaled on his Mongoose suspicion so hard."

Would anyone like to confirm this? I'm pretty sure I stuck by my Mongoose suspicion. By, you know, actually voting for her. After I had considered several angles for quite some time, asking for clarification, and listening to what others had to say.

3. "He dropped his K4J suspicion."

Dropped it? Show me where. I challenge you.

4. "Civvie epig doesn't do this."

Dom has hosted me once. I was Night killed first. I'm not sure what makes him an authority on my "civvie" game, a claim that is even more astonishing...since I don't have a "civvie" game.

5. "He is throwing things at the wall to see what sticks. His pasta isn't ready yet, I see, though, because you are peeling everything off for him."

If you throw pasta to the wall and it sticks, then you have probably...

Sorry, I already told you this. Good luck with your linguine, Felix.

I found this post very interesting. Epi argues pretty forcefully that he didn't back off of Mongoose, but my thought reading yesterday was that distancing was exactly what he was doing. After building the entire huge case against her, he voted for her relatively late, and he spent a BUNCH of time talking about how he was sketched out that so many people were following his lead. When he wrote up his vote post, it actually read to me as if he were dragging his feet about it and only voted for Mongoose out of some weird sense of responsibility and had dropped his suspicion of her entriely. I'm starting to think he was setting Devin, me, and others up for lynch, and it seems to be working so far.

Wait a minute. You're starting to think I was setting you and Devin and others up for a lynch? Why, because you refused to think for yourself and just accept what I said?

Just popping in to vote. I'll be really sad if Epi has fooled/misled ne again, but there's no denying mongoose is acting weird. I don't think the cross-posting makes her bad, but general tone has made me a bit nervous

Tell me Russ, did I fool or mislead you? Or was I setting you up?

Yes! My plan is working! My ingenuous scheme to suspect a civilian, build a case against her, get a mob of other people to vote for her, get Devin to say he would vote however I voted but actually vote before I did, get Russ to put the responsibility of HIS vote on me ("fool/mislead"), and pretend to back down on my suspicion yet vote for Mongoose anyway is absolutely brilliant!

Because with a current status of 1 vote for me, 1 Vompatti self-vote, 1 vote for A Person, and 1 vote for Bullzeye, my diabolical scheme is working perfectly!



Please.

Thank you!

I have to say, with his posts thus far during Day 3, Russ went up my list some. I was willing to give him the BOTD more before since I know he's busy in Sweden, but I'm not so sold anymore.

I really want to vote S~V~S today, but I could be accepting of a Russ or Bass lynch too... or Lizzy as well (for reasons previously stated).

Epig, have you been keeping your URLs to the posted voting records handy? I wouldn't mind looking at them again and I didn't save them before.

[A Person]

I don't remember if I'm a baddie or not. This has been my strategy from the beginning and I truly believe it will pay out in the end.

So if you don't remember if you're a baddie or not, how can you send in your PMs? Does this mean you don't have a role that sends in a power? Or are you missing your PM's?

Civvies send PMs too.

Is there an exploding brain emoticon? Because there should be. I've seen whacky Vomps before, but this is stretching credibility even for me.

he's not wrong though

[Tangrowth]

I don't remember if I'm a baddie or not. This has been my strategy from the beginning and I truly believe it will pay out in the end.

So if you don't remember if you're a baddie or not, how can you send in your PMs? Does this mean you don't have a role that sends in a power? Or are you missing your PM's?

Civvies send PMs too.

Is there an exploding brain emoticon? Because there should be. I've seen whacky Vomps before, but this is stretching credibility even for me.

he's not wrong though

Yes, but he did say he doesn't remember if he's a baddie or not -- so how could he know what to send in for PMs if he doesn't know his role?

Though... it is Vomps. Maybe he knows his power but not his alignment -- or maybe he just randomly selects a username each time. Lol. Wouldn't be surprised.

What are your thoughts on everything right now, AP? You had some good things to say earlier, but I haven't seen much from you in a while other than your self-votes.

[Tangrowth]

OK, I gotta go. Be back around tonight. I hope to hear what everyone else is thinking too.

[Epignosis]

MP, I would respond to you right away, but it's Eloh's turn.

And I think Russ is something that rhymes with "weevil."

Addendum: Bullzeye, I'll check you out later man.

Addendum 2: Ah! Real quick, here:

Day 1
Day 2

BAH.

Never mind about Eloh. After all the rushing, she's now borrowing her sister's laptop.

Love you dear!

[Epignosis]

All right Bullzeye. What you have said sounds fairly reasonable to me.

[Hedgeowl]

Ok, I don't have much time right now, but I have decided to try a different tactic this game. I will be looking for baddies in the top posters instead of low posters. One if a baddie is lynched we get more info from said lynch than lynching a baddie low poster, and two I think it more likely given some of the players and style that there are baddies running part of this thread. (Three, it slows the thread down a bit getting rid of a few chatty mcchattersons)

The list of top 10 living posters:
Epignosis 119
Mongoose 118
kneel4justice 87
Mister Rearranger 85
S~V~S 85
Loulou26 77
MovingPictures07 61
Summer 59
FZ. 58
Devin the Omniscient 54
Bullzeye 51

One of you is getting my vote later today, but since I am still catching up, might take me a bit more time. Also, given my brief time with the ksiters this seems to be fairly normal for most of them, so gives me pause there as well. I will consider more today as the day progresses, but this is where I am currently thinking since I am not 100% following current in thread accusations without more catch-up.

[Elohcin]

I realize my play style makes me stand out among the rest of the voters. I use this style when I don't care what happens to me, personally.

You made that easy for me. *votes Dev*

[Bullzeye]

So carrying on with looking at Mongoose voters I'm gonna have a poke at Bass and SVS (Voters 5 and 6 respectively). Doing it in the same post because Bass has also been really quiet, not sure how I overlooked that yesterday. The only thing that really caught my eye though is this:

I hate saying this but I'm going to have to go with epig on the mongoose vote today she has been acting really different from the game I just played with her and it worries me . It has just been one thing after another. From the day zero vote she made to "having problems with the site" issues she had and its just been one excuse after the other so for that reason I'm *voting Mongoose*

He seems to be suggesting that the whole crosspost drama was actually reason to be suspicious. I know Bass is relatively new but maybe he could explain how that works because it really wouldn't have made sense if a baddie Mongoose had made the whole issue up in order to... I dunno, lose attention? Gain trust? It just strikes me as odd that anyone could say that's a reason to vote for someone.

Anyway, on to SVS. As much as she often claims she finds it hard to read me and I can fool her, it's the same in reverse. I'm not sure if I'm seeing what some others are in terms of suspicion but I dunno if I'd say I trust her either. Her day one discussion with Epi where she said he was being rude seems like something I've generally seen from her as a baddie. I could be misremembering there and maybe someone could bring up an example of a game where she had a similar interaction as a civ. On the other hand I do agree with a lot of things she's said this game. I'm not sure where I stand on her.

I'll now go on to Sorsha. She was 10th to vote (keep this in mind, nobody else came anywhere close to even possibly being in danger of a lynch that day) and didn't mention Mongoose at all on day two. Nor did she give a reason as to why she'd voted. These are her day two posts:

If all the discussion today had been about Phil Collins and not the game that we're playing, then I would understand randomizing, but... oh wait...

I think I'll probably vote Epig.

Can you please eloborate?

Interesting. A unshared of people Tribunal of Judgment Maligna.

*cough*original Tribunal of Judgement member*cough*

EBWOP

Guru... Have you been drinking and playing Mafia again???? You know that never ends well!!! (Btw, whoever did this to him... You probably just jumped to the top of his sh*t list!! )

On a serious note, I saw people talking about being cursed or whatever? Are his posts even going to be readable??

You can usualy get the general jist (gist?) of the response if you do read through the response. There are some moments of clarity in the gibberish.


Nice post on bullz, Epi.

I looked at the roles, and I was under the impression that the civ that could do that to K4J could only do it on night 3. Deflect on night 1, silence on night 2, and make someone crazy on night 3. And then all over again. Is that not what the role implies?
If it does, than that would imply it was a baddie who did this, and then, either K4J was very intuitive in his suspicions, and the baddies wanted to shut him up, but it just makes people trust him more, so why? Or K4J is a baddie and his team decided to do it to make him look like a civ. Or, it's one of the Ksiters that thought it would be funny to shut him up. Another option I see is someone wanting to frame one of the Ksiters.....or none of the above.

I'm sorry, I'm having a really hard time keeping up with two games, and no break like we're used to at nights. This is a major overload.

I'm not going to be here for the next 30+ hours, so I'm going to vote now. I'm going with Sorsha, because her game is pure fluff and OT, and I've seen absolutely nothing from her so far. Sorry I'm not coming up with anything more than that, but I can't keep up.

Yeah.... I'm a slow bloomer.

Voted mongoose..

Not a single mention of the case against Mongoose or what she though of it. In fact she never even mentions having an eye on Mongoose until that vote. She threw a vote onto the end of a bandwagon with no discussion at all. This really catches my eye, it seems to be the very definition of blendy.

[FZ.]

Wow, okay. Finally have some time. So sorry for my thread absences. For those who are saying I'm less involved than usual, yes, I am less involved than usual in all 3 games I am in right now, and that is because it is the holiday season. I have a vacation from the 30th to the 8th that I am planning for; I was gone Friday evening through Sunday spending time with Daisy's family (if you really want someone to back that up, just ask Daisy or CBK); and I've also been spending time with my family before that. Not to mention the fact that I just recently 'finished' up applications to 11 PhD programs.

Russ, can you explain what it is that makes me bad? First you say SVS has a few good points about me being less involved, then the next post you say, me, her, and Epig are all possibly bad.

Regarding Devin, my thoughts have been clear. He always asks for people to vote for him -- see almost every single game he's ever played. As a civvie, he usually does so out of frustration, and especially more so when his RL is busier; as a baddie, he does it just to fuck with people. I am seeing a distracted civvie Devin here more than a maniacal baddie one, personally, and although I've wavered on that some, I'm back to more firmly believing that.

Regarding Vomps, yes, it's just Vomps. He acts this way a lot. Sometimes he actually contributes more than others; other times, he is WAY off the wall and contributes nothing or next to nothing. He seems to just be doing it because that's how enjoys the game. If players think he should go because of it, by all means vote for him, but it's normal behavior and it makes him next to impossible to read. For me, anyway, there are bigger fish to fry right now. Similar thoughts re: AP and Lizzy, though I do admit I have been pinged by Lizzy most so this game. AP seemed civvie to me earlier on based on his early thread contributions and tone/behavior.

Regarding DP, I noticed some players were talking about how he doesn't generally bandwagon, even when busy. This is true. Definitely has my eye, but I'm not totally sure what to think about him yet.

Okay, and now to address where I'm at. I was most considering Mata and S~V~S for my votes today going into the period, but then Mata died, so my vote seems easier. There are others I'm seriously heavily eyeballing based on their Mongoose bandwagon votes, but I feel most comfortable with an S~V~S vote. She CLEARLY is manipulating the thread.

MP, I am NOT going to quote your post and then try to surgically cut it down so i can answer one question, lol~

The Sock Says: Can you think of any examples re: your Mongoose comments here? I'm not sure I've ever noticed anything like that, but I do tend to think she has distinct playing styles when she has different alignments.

What's throwing me off about Mongoose LATELY is that she seems to have different styles on different sites. What she is posting here seems much more of what I'm used to, whereas in the RM and KSite games lately she seemed a bit off to me.

She has addressed this before, in other games, but for me, her baddie game was beautiful in AG, and she played a very light hearted fun, sweet game there. I know she has said it was due to the sockpuppets, but I thought of all the people playing, she was most obviously HER through the disguise. But i cannot read her for shit, which is why I would like to reread her in both threads. I thought that the observation FZ made, that she seemed to be playing different games at the same time in different threads was an interesting point. We might have a baddie Mongoose in one thread, and a civ in the other, although I could not say if that were the case which was which.

But I think you learn more about a persons game hosting them that playing with them, tbh.

I asked her to clarify on the Mongoose being bad one way or another thing due to her sounding 'sweet' or not.

She then proceeds to completely manipulate the thread and after Mongoose flips, here is what she says:

Sorry Mongoose. People do tend to misunderstand your game

Of all the votes yesterday, both for and against mongoose, the one who tweaked me the most was Devin; he sounded like he was absolutely fawning on Epi, then he voted before Epi did? There have been a lot of things going on in this thread, and maybe we can sort them out a bit better. I am looking forward to K4J being able to speak again.

No kidding?

Also, sorry to say I couldn't go back and re-read, I literally have like no time, I barely have enough time to keep up with the thread. Though I do think the way people avoided voting Mongoose D1 after they mentioned something about her and then THREW THEIR VOTE AWAY (S~V~S, Bass, Devin, I'm looking at you -- at least Elo is consistent, you bunch are pinging me) should be looked at. I will be looking at them whenever I have tiome, probably Monday after work or maybe Sunday evening after I get home.

What do you mean, I threw my vote away? If i vote in a way other than one that makes sense to you, i threw my vote away?

Since when has anything i have done gamewise made any sense to you?

And then regarding her vote... she was very strong about believing Mongoose was bad, even as early as Day 1, yet where did she vote? Not Mongoose.

This is NOT a matter of gamewise making sense; it's a matter of contradiction.

So you are falling back on tone? How lame, lol. You and Dom both, actually. K4J has a reason at least, although i have explained the reasoning behind my suspicion of Mongoose umpteen times. Perhaps she does not like conflict and that was why she kept trying to change the subject when i was trying to pin something down in her responses.

I have said it several times, and my story is not going to change since it is the truth.

So please explain to me how the above is tone.

Now for a current response...

Ah, I see Vomp is using similar strategies in both games. Poor FZ, he's really messing with you, lol~

OK, I will think about this at work today. If i had to vote now, it would be between MP, Devin, & DP. Normally a post like Bullz' analysis of the Mongoose voters, but only the low posters, would ping the hell out of me, but I don't know that i agree with Epi on him, and he made some good points. Especially about DP~ I know DPs game pretty well, both bad and civ, and I don't see civ DP jumping on a bandwagon, he would vote a tangent, or even randomize later into the game than Day One. So that was rather blendy, and there is a difference between quiet and blendy.

MP (waits for the "No U") has made multiple versions of the same post this game:

"Sorry I am catching up"
"OK I have to catch up"
"I have not totally read the thread, but I have a few impressions"

"I always think SVS is bad, so i also think she is bad here"
"SVS made a suspicious vote for Mongoose"
"Not seeing the Devin suspicion"

This sounds to me like you are suspecting me becasue you think people expect you to suspect me, and if you did not suspect ME, they would suspect YOU. And that sounds like a baddie making an easy vote. I don;t think a civ MP would fall back on that when he was not caught up to the thread, and it sounds to me like you are trying to sound civ. And quite a few people made much more suspicious votes for Mongoose than I (like Devin, for example). I stated my reasons for suspecting her clearly, repeatedly & early.

And Devins whole game has pinged me since the beginning, and I have said so more than once. That last vote especially.

So off to work, between this being a super busy time of year for me at work, and our hiliday party being today, doubt i will be back until tonight.

This is ridiculous and only makes me more sure that you are bad. (not the DP part, the rest of it)

Yes, I have been CONSTANTLY behind, and I wonder why that could be? Also, I've made plenty of contributions to this game beyond just what you point out here -- yet you bring up this suspicion of me all of a sudden because you know I'm onto something. To say I have made "multiple versions of the same post this game" is misrepresenting. And yes, I do like to keep everyone in tabs with what's going on in my life -- but I do it all the time, regardless of alignment.

Where did I always say I always think you're bad? It's true we never can see eye to eye, but that doesn't mean I always suspect you. In fact, recently I've not gunned after you in a few games and called your alignment correctly. Not that I'm infallible by any means. But more misrepresentation.

And I am NOT seeing the Devin suspicion; I've said multiple times over and over why. Same with Mongoose.

I'm not falling back on anything. You helped pushed the thread to Mongoose; you've said contradictory statements; you now try to make up this BS case against me to get me lynched.

How is Devin's vote MORE suspicious than yours? Could it just not mean he has less time than you? Yes, he could be baddie, but his behavior overall just doesn't say so to me. Not EVERY single voter of Mongoose that bandwagoned has to be baddie. Civvies bandwagon all the time. That's mafia. Of course it comes down to judgment and analyzing actions.

I fully agree with this post, and will most likely be voting for SVS. I was looking for the post where she commented on my question regarding Mongoose. Thanks for digging it up.

[FZ.]

I realize my play style makes me stand out among the rest of the voters. I use this style when I don't care what happens to me, personally.

You made that easy for me. *votes Dev*

That's all you've got? After all the talk in all these days? Sounds scummy to me. He actually managed to convince me he is a civvie. It's funny that all he said made you think he's a baddie.

[FZ.]

So carrying on with looking at Mongoose voters I'm gonna have a poke at Bass and SVS (Voters 5 and 6 respectively). Doing it in the same post because Bass has also been really quiet, not sure how I overlooked that yesterday. The only thing that really caught my eye though is this:

I hate saying this but I'm going to have to go with epig on the mongoose vote today she has been acting really different from the game I just played with her and it worries me . It has just been one thing after another. From the day zero vote she made to "having problems with the site" issues she had and its just been one excuse after the other so for that reason I'm *voting Mongoose*

He seems to be suggesting that the whole crosspost drama was actually reason to be suspicious. I know Bass is relatively new but maybe he could explain how that works because it really wouldn't have made sense if a baddie Mongoose had made the whole issue up in order to... I dunno, lose attention? Gain trust? It just strikes me as odd that anyone could say that's a reason to vote for someone.

Anyway, on to SVS. As much as she often claims she finds it hard to read me and I can fool her, it's the same in reverse. I'm not sure if I'm seeing what some others are in terms of suspicion but I dunno if I'd say I trust her either. Her day one discussion with Epi where she said he was being rude seems like something I've generally seen from her as a baddie. I could be misremembering there and maybe someone could bring up an example of a game where she had a similar interaction as a civ. On the other hand I do agree with a lot of things she's said this game. I'm not sure where I stand on her.

I'll now go on to Sorsha. She was 10th to vote (keep this in mind, nobody else came anywhere close to even possibly being in danger of a lynch that day) and didn't mention Mongoose at all on day two. Nor did she give a reason as to why she'd voted. These are her day two posts:

If all the discussion today had been about Phil Collins and not the game that we're playing, then I would understand randomizing, but... oh wait...

I think I'll probably vote Epig.

Can you please eloborate?

Interesting. A unshared of people Tribunal of Judgment Maligna.

*cough*original Tribunal of Judgement member*cough*

EBWOP

Guru... Have you been drinking and playing Mafia again???? You know that never ends well!!! (Btw, whoever did this to him... You probably just jumped to the top of his sh*t list!! )

On a serious note, I saw people talking about being cursed or whatever? Are his posts even going to be readable??

You can usualy get the general jist (gist?) of the response if you do read through the response. There are some moments of clarity in the gibberish.


Nice post on bullz, Epi.

I looked at the roles, and I was under the impression that the civ that could do that to K4J could only do it on night 3. Deflect on night 1, silence on night 2, and make someone crazy on night 3. And then all over again. Is that not what the role implies?
If it does, than that would imply it was a baddie who did this, and then, either K4J was very intuitive in his suspicions, and the baddies wanted to shut him up, but it just makes people trust him more, so why? Or K4J is a baddie and his team decided to do it to make him look like a civ. Or, it's one of the Ksiters that thought it would be funny to shut him up. Another option I see is someone wanting to frame one of the Ksiters.....or none of the above.

I'm sorry, I'm having a really hard time keeping up with two games, and no break like we're used to at nights. This is a major overload.

I'm not going to be here for the next 30+ hours, so I'm going to vote now. I'm going with Sorsha, because her game is pure fluff and OT, and I've seen absolutely nothing from her so far. Sorry I'm not coming up with anything more than that, but I can't keep up.

Yeah.... I'm a slow bloomer.

Voted mongoose..

Not a single mention of the case against Mongoose or what she though of it. In fact she never even mentions having an eye on Mongoose until that vote. She threw a vote onto the end of a bandwagon with no discussion at all. This really catches my eye, it seems to be the very definition of blendy.

Not sure what to think about Bass. His reasons are fishy. I already said I think SVS is a baddie, and as for Sorsha, while I started out thinking she's a baddie with all that fluff, I really think that scum tend to rationalize their votes so you don't come after them exactly for that reason. Especially the type of players I associate Sorsha with. So right now, I think I'm actually leaning to her being a civ. Though I guess you all know her better than I do, so how does she handle votes when she's a baddie?

[kneel4justice]

Ok, I don't have much time right now, but I have decided to try a different tactic this game. I will be looking for baddies in the top posters instead of low posters. One if a baddie is lynched we get more info from said lynch than lynching a baddie low poster, and two I think it more likely given some of the players and style that there are baddies running part of this thread. (Three, it slows the thread down a bit getting rid of a few chatty mcchattersons)

The list of top 10 living posters:
Epignosis 119
Mongoose 118
kneel4justice 87
Mister Rearranger 85
S~V~S 85
Loulou26 77
MovingPictures07 61
Summer 59
FZ. 58
Devin the Omniscient 54
Bullzeye 51

One of you is getting my vote later today, but since I am still catching up, might take me a bit more time. Also, given my brief time with the ksiters this seems to be fairly normal for most of them, so gives me pause there as well. I will consider more today as the day progresses, but this is where I am currently thinking since I am not 100% following current in thread accusations without more catch-up.

I am always wary of those who come in saying they're using a different tactic. Just seems like an easy excuse to play differently from their "townie" game.

[FZ.]

Ok, I don't have much time right now, but I have decided to try a different tactic this game. I will be looking for baddies in the top posters instead of low posters. One if a baddie is lynched we get more info from said lynch than lynching a baddie low poster, and two I think it more likely given some of the players and style that there are baddies running part of this thread. (Three, it slows the thread down a bit getting rid of a few chatty mcchattersons)

The list of top 10 living posters:
Epignosis 119
Mongoose 118
kneel4justice 87
Mister Rearranger 85
S~V~S 85
Loulou26 77
MovingPictures07 61
Summer 59
FZ. 58
Devin the Omniscient 54
Bullzeye 51

One of you is getting my vote later today, but since I am still catching up, might take me a bit more time. Also, given my brief time with the ksiters this seems to be fairly normal for most of them, so gives me pause there as well. I will consider more today as the day progresses, but this is where I am currently thinking since I am not 100% following current in thread accusations without more catch-up.

I am always wary of those who come in saying they're using a different tactic. Just seems like an easy excuse to play differently from their "townie" game.

I'm not sure whether I should bring it up, but I noticed she's replacing Jenny, and I have a feeling there is more chance Jenny would drop out when she's a civvie than when she's a scum. But that's just assumptions. I think she wouldn't do it to her team if she were a civ, even if she didn't know any of them. Then again, maybe RL really prevented her from playing, and I don't know why she dropped out.