Retrocausality Mafia - ENDGAME: A Reprieve in the Desert

[sprityo]

coming back midway or so through day 2.

Epi is town, he's indecisive and changes is suspicions on a whim, i observed a good deal of it in Fire Emblem. He is right most of the time though in his suspicions, but he's best at defending himself.
Golden leans town for me with his interactions of sig, quin, mac, and INH. But it's more so just banter. than throwing down some "you're bad, fuck you"
i dont trust Quin (right now) in the slightest. A stump isnt activated by default from what ive seen. he's either lying out his ass or some convoluted shit is happening. on top of the "random PM" deal im still reading through. I hope it gets resolved
I keep seeing Colin pop in now and again. contributing somewhat.
Same with luna except it's nothing relevant, warrants an ISO once im done reading day2
if INH is not town, then when are we going to lynch him?
Mac is town but i dont know why yet.

[sprityo]

i also group turniphead with luna in that they havent done anything worthy to not be lynched as far as ive read

[sprityo]

@speedchuck Can we consider the host posts as anything more than just flavor for flavor's sake? Or are they completely just flavor?

All topic flavor is for fun only and is written on the spot, with no regard to alignment or role flavor.

good it should ALWAYS be like that. that shit had me livid in fire emblem, where the flvaor actually indicated player's alingments

[Lunalee]

i also group turniphead with luna in that they havent done anything worthy to not be lynched as far as ive read

Welcome sprityo! Good to see you too :P

[ColinIsCool]

Also, I kinda love that Luna’s choice to defend herself to me is a meta argument.

How did Luna handle her teammates in u pick, anyone?

Wasn’t Scotty on her team? I just remember being fooled completely by her.

[mention]Scotty[/mention]
[mention]MacDougall[/mention]

[Spacedaisy]

Do we really think there are three town-aligned doctors in this game?

nah

This bothers me too. Wasn't it MacDougal, Scotty, and Epi? One of them may get my vote today.

It looks like Epignosis walked back his claim as trying to attract a night kill

I officially suspect Lunalee for that post. "One of them may get my vote today" is a way of leaving her options open without specifying a preference for any one of us.

I agree. Given what was presented about her and then her response. I don't feel good about Luna. I am considering moving my vote to her.

[mention]Epignosis[/mention] can I get your opinion on TH? I've probably read it at some point and just don't recall, but I'd like it now. How do you feel about this, let's wait and see what happens plan?

[mention]sprityo[/mention] I don't think the suspicion of Choutas is that heavy. I don't remember much at all about Choutas actually. Wait, you are replacing Choutas, right?

[sprityo]

Spoiler: show

about turnip head.....

i disagree with the concept of lynching him. In a game where we have limited methods of clearing people of being mafia, turnip head has provided one for himself, and lynching him takes that away for basically no reason. we lynch turnip head we learn nothing and he dies.

we let turnip head live until he can complete his publically known win condition which he claims he will vanish after completing, he vanishes as promised? cool. he won and we know he wasn't mafia so we can build assumptions off of that. alternatively, oh no? he's still here? he was lying the whole time? good lynch him, and now we know shit, and can build a better future because of it

We learn nothing if ANYONE dies. I don’t see how someone that is subtly hinting that they’re not town isn’t a worthy lynch candidate down the road

that's what I'm saying Scotty, we learn something if turnip head LIVES so why would it be a good idea to lynch him instead of seeing how his thing plays out?

We don’t know we will learn anything if he lives besides him just hanging around like that ex girlfriend that keeps coming back because she “needed some closure” and “still likes being around me”

Addendum: if he didn’t vanish, then we know he’s lying.

I see what you mean.

Got it.

*hails waitress*

Check please!

yesssss exactly.

if we lynch him early then we don't know what alignment he died with but if we let him achieve his stated wincon we'll know if he was lying.

if his wincon claim is a definite lie then we can comfortably lynch him based on that evidence, but if we lynch him before it can come to fruition then turnip head remains a mystery until the end.

This rationale makes sense and at the same time makes me uneasy. very uneasy. There's no definite that the future will be as predicted

[sprityo]

Do we really think there are three town-aligned doctors in this game?

nah

This bothers me too. Wasn't it MacDougal, Scotty, and Epi? One of them may get my vote today.

It looks like Epignosis walked back his claim as trying to attract a night kill

I officially suspect Lunalee for that post. "One of them may get my vote today" is a way of leaving her options open without specifying a preference for any one of us.

I agree. Given what was presented about her and then her response. I don't feel good about Luna. I am considering moving my vote to her.

@Epignosis can I get your opinion on TH? I've probably read it at some point and just don't recall, but I'd like it now. How do you feel about this, let's wait and see what happens plan?

@sprityo I don't think the suspicion of Choutas is that heavy. I don't remember much at all about Choutas actually. Wait, you are replacing Choutas, right?

correct, i said "heavy" because as ive been reading from day2 it looks like everyone and their mom has choutas as a bottom 3 person

[Spacedaisy]

I have pretty much no read on Choutas at this point, which bothers me but I am willing to give you a chance to do your own thing. Especially since I like what you just said about the wait and see plan for dealing with TH. I was beginning to think I was the only one who could see the danger in this plan.

[ColinIsCool]

Also, I kinda love that Luna’s choice to defend herself to me is a meta argument.

How did Luna handle her teammates in u pick, anyone?

Wasn’t Scotty on her team? I just remember being fooled completely by her.

@Scotty
@MacDougall

It may have been [mention]insertnamehere[/mention] actually but either way someone knows offhand better than I would from ISOing her in another game

[sprityo]

Mac and I are braintwinning right now, for real

this rubs me the wrong way

my gut has the rumblies

[sprityo]

The list of people actually applying rationalisation in this game is as short as Epi's penis.

[Turnip Head]

Spoiler: show

about turnip head.....

i disagree with the concept of lynching him. In a game where we have limited methods of clearing people of being mafia, turnip head has provided one for himself, and lynching him takes that away for basically no reason. we lynch turnip head we learn nothing and he dies.

we let turnip head live until he can complete his publically known win condition which he claims he will vanish after completing, he vanishes as promised? cool. he won and we know he wasn't mafia so we can build assumptions off of that. alternatively, oh no? he's still here? he was lying the whole time? good lynch him, and now we know shit, and can build a better future because of it

We learn nothing if ANYONE dies. I don’t see how someone that is subtly hinting that they’re not town isn’t a worthy lynch candidate down the road

that's what I'm saying Scotty, we learn something if turnip head LIVES so why would it be a good idea to lynch him instead of seeing how his thing plays out?

We don’t know we will learn anything if he lives besides him just hanging around like that ex girlfriend that keeps coming back because she “needed some closure” and “still likes being around me”

Addendum: if he didn’t vanish, then we know he’s lying.

I see what you mean.

Got it.

*hails waitress*

Check please!

yesssss exactly.

if we lynch him early then we don't know what alignment he died with but if we let him achieve his stated wincon we'll know if he was lying.

if his wincon claim is a definite lie then we can comfortably lynch him based on that evidence, but if we lynch him before it can come to fruition then turnip head remains a mystery until the end.

This rationale makes sense and at the same time makes me uneasy. very uneasy. There's no definite that the future will be as predicted

Where did you come from 0_0

[Turnip Head]

I mean when

[sprityo]

A brief Luna/sig interactive iso. Luna has a total of 19 posts before Quin dropped his bombshell, including:

Spoiler: show

@sig , what's with that "poker face" smiley you keep using?

@sig , @Quin , if you're going to self-vote, at least give us a good reason to support you or not.

Night is half over and I'm missing a loooooot of night actions.

Never submit night actions that's my policy. Why hide your actions? I never do I'll tell you straight up what I plan to do. Which is why a vote for sig is a vote for open night actions. No more hiding no more fear no more control. Vote Sig a player you can trust.

Sig, your campaigning is gold. I'm voting for you. I believe I can count on you to sign that Bill of Rights with the most beautiful signature

[VOTE: sig] aubergine

Haha, bravo sig.

These quotes account for my 'gut feel' of luna being a teammate of sig. They have a 'team banter' vibe to them.

After Quin's bombshell, Luna's next two posts are:

Spoiler: show

Either way the idea of lynching me since I said I couldn't be lynched doesn't seem townie.

And this is complete bullshit

I called your bluff and now you're worried.

Glad I called it.

I think there's a decent chance you are a baddie who gains in power over time, and you're trying to delay being lynched for some reason. You've made claims of being indestructible and said you weren't worried about your campaign putting a target on your back for that reason. You said you weren't worried about being lynched because you won't be lynched. But I can smell the fear on your breath from here.

This is what I was thinking. It might be safest to lynch sig.

Wait, why are you folks lynching sig? I need to catch up.

That's a very strange backtrack.

And then we get this progression:

Spoiler: show

Spoiler: show

Sig is your apparent inability to be lynched literally just today that it won't work?

Oh it'll work whenever I want, but it would be a waste for it to be used today. I won't have enough time in this timeline to make it worthwhile basically.

Sig are you a civilian? Yes or no?

If you are a civilian what will be the outcome of lynching you today? Is the outcome positive or negative? Why?

If you are a civilian does your continued existence beyond day 3 reap any benefit to the civilian cause?

Yes

there's no outcome of lynching me today since it won't happen but if it did it would be negative since you'd loose a civ, but there wouldn't be some cataclysmic event

yes in the sense that I'd be here to post and engage. However, it's not like some role actives if I'm alive after day 3.

Also I think y'all might've read a little bit to deep into my d/n 1 posts.

So if we attempt to lynch you today, it just fails? Or it redirects? Does the second person get lynched instead? What do you expect the outcome to be? Just your continued existence and a fart video?

So you are saying that all of your role stops being relevant come day 3?

If you are a civilian then us wasting a lynch on you here is a bad idea. Given we have several other people who have role claimed, perhaps the civilian duty you have here is to actually just enlighten us as to what it is that you do?

1. Everything resets and I leave you all for a better land BUT I wouldn't have been lynched.

2. No my role is relevant until I use it

3. I told you I can't be lynched that's my role power.

IF you try you fail and the timeline will be disrupted resulting in chaos. Or that's the theory anyway.

Also just to be clear if you tried to lynhc me day 3 it would also fail, but it would've been the optimal time for me to active my power. Or that's what I thought at first.

I don't really want to lynch sig today. I didn't know quite what to think of his claims earlier, but now I feel like he's being genuine.

Also, I thought it was basically confirmed that INH was third-party. Is that a problem for town? Why is he tied with sig? I feel like we can do better than this.

Let's do something more fun.

sig and INH are Booker DeWitt and Comstock. That is to say, both have been swept away by the Luteces. They're not here.

Who gets your vote and why?

Yes, I want to step away from the sig and INH drama. I feel it is distracting us from actually getting a scum lynch. Didn't Quin start this whole thing? I don't know if I want to keep Quin around. I feel like he introduced a class-A distraction to get suspicions off of his team.

I think potentially the worst look in here is 'I feel like we can do better than this' when we've been presented with a potential 50/50 shot. What's the size of the team - 3 or 4? So you'd have no more than a 25% shot the rest of the time...

Then:

[VOTE: Quin] aubergine [citation]

and

I'm going to put my vote on INH because I don't like how defensive he got about his role. But that makes a tie between him and sig. Ugh.

It's worth noting that last post is AFTER sig triggered the event but before it took place.

Looking through Luna's iso as a whole, I tend to find that she is team compatible with sig, and that's where my vote is going for now.

[VOTE: Lunalee] aubergine

i have just witnessed a murder.

The backtrack is troublesome yes, but more so the indecisiveness without backing it up. Also the "i dont want to tie it up" looks fake as hell

[VOTE: Lunalee] aubergine

[sprityo]

I mean when

tomorrow

[sprityo]

Alright i think that's sufficient enough for me to get a grasp on the game in general, theres still a few people i dont have an opinion on yet

any deep personal questions for myself?

[Turnip Head]

My win condition is simply too easy, there's no joy in winning like this, so anyways I'm in my time bunkbed wearing my time hoodie reading time comics and waiting for the end to come.

[sprityo]

New Avatar to fit the theme of the game

[ColinIsCool]

I have a question for people who are pro-Turnip
Head: why?

[Epignosis]

I don't know that I've ever stated an opinion one way or the other concerning Turnip Head. He hasn't made much of an impression on me.

[lapluie]

This is not a real vote but I always default for Choutas to see who voted who sorry

Why is Choutas this go to default vote?

Idunno, he's on tOP #1 I always default the top player.. sometimes

[sprityo]

I have a question for people who are pro-Turnip
Head: why?

why not

indi doesnt have to care who wins, as long as their wincon is met

[Turnip Head]

I have a question for people who are pro-Turnip
Head: why?

Sometimes we can't escape our demons

[Golden]

I have a question for people who are pro-Turnip
Head: why?

I have provided a couple of reasons that you haven’t really engaged with. I’d be more interested in seeing you engage with them than simply remaining positional in a generic way.

[Turnip Head]

hmm ty Golden.

[ColinIsCool]

I have a question for people who are pro-Turnip
Head: why?

I have provided a couple of reasons that you haven’t really engaged with. I’d be more interested in seeing you engage with them than simply remaining positional in a generic way.

I must have missed them then.

[Kylemii]

Looking through Luna's iso as a whole, I tend to find that she is team compatible with sig, and that's where my vote is going for now.

how confident are you that sig was mafia?

a long time ago in a galaxy far far away we played a game called phenon 2 that had no flips like this one and we lynched someone early who we assumed was mafia for the rest of the game and made the rest of our decisions based on that assumption and then jay won and was a little smug about it, I'd lke to avoid that. so are you sure about sig

[ColinIsCool]

Yeah, I agree with you - I think TH is telling us only part of the story. But I don't feel like distrusting him at the moment, and I'm happy to let the first part play out and see what happens next.

Is there any reason you are willing to hear him out and not, say, sig, who also made a strange claim?

Yes. Sig was trying to seem town. TH doesn’t give a fuck.

I am not moved by this argument.

[Turnip Head]

I have one suspect and one suspect only. His name is MacDougall and he likely has a squad of goons along with him.

[ColinIsCool]

If that really was it, Golden, I don’t think that’s good enough rationale to trust Turnip Head, given the fact that I’ve already provided evidence that he’s lying. You have all these big theories about sig’s power and his motivations but apply none of that creative thinking to Turnip Head. You say that’s a meta-motivated distinction, but Turnip is not read in conventional ways.

I dislike Luna for reasons others have brought up, but I dislike Turnip a lot and your defense of him is uninspiring.

[ColinIsCool]

I have one suspect and one suspect only. His name is MacDougall and he likely has a squad of goons along with him.

What’s your case on Mac?

[Kylemii]

any deep personal questions for myself?

do you like breakfast?

[Kylemii]

[mention]Turnip Head[/mention] meet me in the sex cave i have a question for you

[Turnip Head]

I have one suspect and one suspect only. His name is MacDougall and he likely has a squad of goons along with him.

What’s your case on Mac?

Tone, what he says vs what he doesn't say. These are the kinds of things I look for, generally

linki ive been summoned

[ColinIsCool]

I have one suspect and one suspect only. His name is MacDougall and he likely has a squad of goons along with him.

What’s your case on Mac?

Tone, what he says vs what he doesn't say. These are the kinds of things I look for, generally

linki ive been summoned

What’s he not saying? Are there any specific posts you can show us?

[Spacedaisy]

:o I didn't realize TH and Kyle had that kind of relationship...

[Golden]

If that really was it, Golden, I don’t think that’s good enough rationale to trust Turnip Head, given the fact that I’ve already provided evidence that he’s lying. You have all these big theories about sig’s power and his motivations but apply none of that creative thinking to Turnip Head. You say that’s a meta-motivated distinction, but Turnip is not read in conventional ways.

I dislike Luna for reasons others have brought up, but I dislike Turnip a lot and your defense of him is uninspiring.

No, the other point was that your ‘evidence he is lying’ I find to be evidence he’s at least partially telling the truth.

[Golden]

What are the chances he makes up something like that and it also happens to be your role.. in a game with two doctors

[Golden]

Looking through Luna's iso as a whole, I tend to find that she is team compatible with sig, and that's where my vote is going for now.

how confident are you that sig was mafia?

a long time ago in a galaxy far far away we played a game called phenon 2 that had no flips like this one and we lynched someone early who we assumed was mafia for the rest of the game and made the rest of our decisions based on that assumption and then jay won and was a little smug about it, I'd lke to avoid that. so are you sure about sig

Reasonably confident given Quins info. But what’s your counterproposal to assumptions in a game with no flips?

[ColinIsCool]

If that really was it, Golden, I don’t think that’s good enough rationale to trust Turnip Head, given the fact that I’ve already provided evidence that he’s lying. You have all these big theories about sig’s power and his motivations but apply none of that creative thinking to Turnip Head. You say that’s a meta-motivated distinction, but Turnip is not read in conventional ways.

I dislike Luna for reasons others have brought up, but I dislike Turnip a lot and your defense of him is uninspiring.

No, the other point was that your ‘evidence he is lying’ I find to be evidence he’s at least partially telling the truth.

I don’t discount that, but since he’s partially telling the truth he is also obviously partially lying. Why?

I don’t think it’s impossible that we have similar, or even the same roles. I also think my role is one that could easily have a scum utility, or an otherwise anti-town one.

[Turnip Head]

What’s he not saying? Are there any specific posts you can show us?

It takes a lot of words to build a case against someone for not saying something, you know? It's also exhausting. I'll let you know if I feel like I should/need to/want to elaborate

[ColinIsCool]

What’s he not saying? Are there any specific posts you can show us?

It takes a lot of words to build a case against someone for not saying something, you know? It's also exhausting. I'll let you know if I feel like I should/need to/want to elaborate

Alright Turbupo. I’d appreciate it before I make you get vanished.

[Turnip Head]

I have a feeling like I'm going to win this election.

[Kylemii]

Looking through Luna's iso as a whole, I tend to find that she is team compatible with sig, and that's where my vote is going for now.

how confident are you that sig was mafia?

a long time ago in a galaxy far far away we played a game called phenon 2 that had no flips like this one and we lynched someone early who we assumed was mafia for the rest of the game and made the rest of our decisions based on that assumption and then jay won and was a little smug about it, I'd lke to avoid that. so are you sure about sig

Reasonably confident given Quins info. But what’s your counterproposal to assumptions in a game with no flips?

assumptions are fine if they're backed up by reasoning sure but wasn't the logic behind quins info broken as soon as INH claimed indie? if inh is indie then quins info doesn't say any thing about sigs' alignment at all.

outside of that do you still suspect sig?

[Golden]

I have a feeling like I'm going to win this election.

I'm going to be campaigning hard for you to not win.

[Spacedaisy]

I have a feeling like I'm going to win this election.

I'm going to be campaigning hard for you to not win.

I don't understand why Golden. I really don't like his claim.

[Golden]

Looking through Luna's iso as a whole, I tend to find that she is team compatible with sig, and that's where my vote is going for now.

how confident are you that sig was mafia?

a long time ago in a galaxy far far away we played a game called phenon 2 that had no flips like this one and we lynched someone early who we assumed was mafia for the rest of the game and made the rest of our decisions based on that assumption and then jay won and was a little smug about it, I'd lke to avoid that. so are you sure about sig

Reasonably confident given Quins info. But what’s your counterproposal to assumptions in a game with no flips?

assumptions are fine if they're backed up by reasoning sure but wasn't the logic behind quins info broken as soon as INH claimed indie? if inh is indie then quins info doesn't say any thing about sigs' alignment at all.

outside of that do you still suspect sig?

INH hasn't claimed indy - he's expressly said that he isn't, and honestly I never bought there was any chance it was a deliberate claim. There's a chance he slipped indy, but he's claimed town, and town is what I believe him to be.

I suspect sig because all of his behaviour around Quin's claim looked like a member of the mafia.

Don't attack me for assumptions unless you are willing to have a counterproposal to making assumptions, because it's not like you are presenting any ideas to replace 'assuming sig is mafia' with anything better right now.

[Golden]

I have a feeling like I'm going to win this election.

I'm going to be campaigning hard for you to not win.

I don't understand why Golden. I really don't like his claim.

So why would you help him win an election then?

[Quin]

Do we really think there are three town-aligned doctors in this game?

nah

This bothers me too. Wasn't it MacDougal, Scotty, and Epi? One of them may get my vote today.

meh. they don't have to be bad.