Retrocausality Mafia - ENDGAME: A Reprieve in the Desert

#1901

And it's time to get over not liking his claim. It's a terrible claim that I don't think is the full truth. Does it make him bad? I can't see any evidence whatsoever that he does. He's clearly mason with Kyle; he clearly told Kyle this was his win con from the very beginning. There is nothing about this situation that I find in the least bit bothersome because he has been fully consistent at all times.

I do not think that sig and TH are teammates. I don't think two baddies have things that can just make them vanish for 'nefarious reasons' when there is probably about 3 or 4 baddies tops and they lose if they're all vanished at once.

To me TH is a bad candidate for a lynch... but he's also a bad candidate for giving any items to.

#1902

Golden wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:37 pm
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:36 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:34 pm
Turnip Head wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:27 pm I have a feeling like I'm going to win this election.
I'm going to be campaigning hard for you to not win.
I don't understand why Golden. I really don't like his claim.
So why would you help him win an election then?

Perhaps this is misunderstanding. We are currently voting for who to lynch. I assumed he meant that statement in a dejected joke way. He is winning the current "election" for who we will lynch. I would never actually vote to give anything to TH during a night poll.

#1903

In this we disagree Golden. I do not trust TH. I have exactly zero reasons to think he might be a lying scum. I have more reason in fact to distrust this claim imo. I don't like luna either but I would rather lynch her tomorrow because she hasn't made a claim about how long she needs to live or what she is trying to achieve. Also of note, someone pounced on sig knowing about being elected before N1 started and an election took place. Was this another common knowledge thing that I missed? I think I am leaving my vote where it is.

#1904

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:45 pm II have exactly zero reasons to think he might be a lying scum. I have more reason in fact to distrust this claim imo.

I don't understand how these two sentences work together.

#1905

Golden wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:37 pmINH hasn't claimed indy - he's expressly said that he isn't, and honestly I never bought there was any chance it was a deliberate claim. There's a chance he slipped indy, but he's claimed town, and town is what I believe him to be.

I suspect sig because all of his behaviour around Quin's claim looked like a member of the mafia.

Don't attack me for assumptions unless you are willing to have a counterproposal to making assumptions, because it's not like you are presenting any ideas to replace 'assuming sig is mafia' with anything better right now.

I'm not attacking you I just want to make sure we're not making the same mistakes that made us lose in that game. I'm not saying don't make assumptions i just want to make sure they're being made with care. I didn't read the part where inh definitively announced that he was a civ. if that happened then it's reasonable enough to assume that sig was bad

if it seemed like i was attacking you then I apologise, that was never my intent, just due diligence

#1906

I'd be disappointed if anyone ever truly trusted me. Gotta keep the mystique alive somehow

#1907

I will campaign to not see TH lynched today if need be. But I didn't really realise there was any threat of that, because I can't imagine any good reason to lynch him. All the facts suggest he is not mafia, to me. I have no interest in lynching an indy when the player numbers are so small and the indy is claiming he'll vanish anyway. This one I definitely would see as a waste of a lynch.

Why would you not let it play out and see if he is being honest? Like - if we lynch TH and prevent him winning by one day and go on to lose because we've wasted a lynch on this, I will riot.

There is absolutely nothing about TH's behaviour in the entire game that suggests any kind of agenda.

#1908

I see the night Elections now. not surprising. except that he coincidentally was campaigning for his own before he knew it was his?

#1909

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:52 pm I see the night Elections now. not surprising. except that he coincidentally was campaigning for his own before he knew it was his?

He was? Where was this?

#1910

Golden wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:52 pm I will campaign to not see TH lynched today if need be. But I didn't really realise there was any threat of that, because I can't imagine any good reason to lynch him. All the facts suggest he is not mafia, to me. I have no interest in lynching an indy when the player numbers are so small and the indy is claiming he'll vanish anyway. This one I definitely would see as a waste of a lynch.

Why would you not let it play out and see if he is being honest? Like - if we lynch TH and prevent him winning by one day and go on to lose because we've wasted a lynch on this, I will riot.

There is absolutely nothing about TH's behaviour in the entire game that suggests any kind of agenda.

Because there is never any suggestion of his agenda in his play, like ever. And you assume that hey we can just wait and see whether or not he disappears. but what if he is lying about what happens? Consider what the options might be if he achieves his objective? We may have a more powerful or more difficult to kill baddie. I am always wary of giving people want they want from us without knowing for sure they are civ. See my arguments in U-Pick again lynching or killing people asking for it.

#1911

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:54 pm
Golden wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:52 pm I will campaign to not see TH lynched today if need be. But I didn't really realise there was any threat of that, because I can't imagine any good reason to lynch him. All the facts suggest he is not mafia, to me. I have no interest in lynching an indy when the player numbers are so small and the indy is claiming he'll vanish anyway. This one I definitely would see as a waste of a lynch.

Why would you not let it play out and see if he is being honest? Like - if we lynch TH and prevent him winning by one day and go on to lose because we've wasted a lynch on this, I will riot.

There is absolutely nothing about TH's behaviour in the entire game that suggests any kind of agenda.
Because there is never any suggestion of his agenda in his play, like ever. And you assume that hey we can just wait and see whether or not he disappears. but what if he is lying about what happens? Consider what the options might be if he achieves his objective? We may have a more powerful or more difficult to kill baddie. I am always wary of giving people want they want from us without knowing for sure they are civ. See my arguments in U-Pick again lynching or killing people asking for it.

I have no problem not lynching or not killing people whoa re asking for it.

I have an issue lynching or killing someone who is asking not to be. Like, if we needed to lynch TH within the first two days to prevent him becoming all-powerful, there's an issue there.

#1912

Here you go Golden:

Post I am referring to

#1913

Also, I'm not saying he doesn't need to do what he says. I am disputing whether or not I believe what he is claiming will be the outcome.

#1914

I would also like to survive the next day and night. I have a specific reason why I'd like to. I know I'm town, I asked for the doctor to protect me overnight in the hopes they would help me. Is this an agenda that you're worried about?

#1915

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:57 pm Also, I'm not saying he doesn't need to do what he says. I am disputing whether or not I believe what he is claiming will be the outcome.

But why does someone who is becoming more powerful just by basically surviving a couple of days, tell everyone about it when they will easily survive a couple of days if they don't?

#1916

That was phrased unclearly. I mean, what I am disputing is whether or not he could be lying about the outcome.

You aren't saying that you are 3P and will just disappear. I find his particular claim very unbelievable coupled with the face I don't like just giving people what they want. Also, I already feel fairly confident in your civ alignment.

#1917

I tell you, the idea that TH has some big agenda we don't know about and is going to turn into a really bad baddie if we don't lynch him now - it doesn't hold up to logic. It makes no sense. It's completely different to sig's situation...

TH isn't even really fighting the suspicion against him. Compare that to sig's scrambling.

The suspicion against TH is because something is 'weird'. It's not because of TH - nothing he is doing makes him look bad.

#1918

As we all know I love it here in Wifomville

#1919

When have you ever seen TH scrambling? How is this AI? It's not, TH plays as inscrutable a game as he can. He isn't doing anything to make you not trust him. Tell me what he is doing to make you trust him?

#1920

Golden wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:52 pm I will campaign to not see TH lynched today if need be. But I didn't really realise there was any threat of that, because I can't imagine any good reason to lynch him. All the facts suggest he is not mafia, to me. I have no interest in lynching an indy when the player numbers are so small and the indy is claiming he'll vanish anyway. This one I definitely would see as a waste of a lynch.

Why would you not let it play out and see if he is being honest? Like - if we lynch TH and prevent him winning by one day and go on to lose because we've wasted a lynch on this, I will riot.

There is absolutely nothing about TH's behaviour in the entire game that suggests any kind of agenda.

we just trust indy's now based on word alone?

#1921

Hey Turnip Head you suck pal

#1922

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:17 pm Hey Turnip Head you suck pal

lol

#1923

3 hours and 38 minutes left

#1924

For those who are ignoring Golden's Luna case like I was, upon reading it it's actually sum gud werk.

#1925

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:23 pm For those who are ignoring Golden's Luna case like I was, upon reading it it's actually sum gud werk.

I agree

#1926

Turdip Head can wait.

#1927

I disagree. My whole point is how very much I disagree.

#1928

okay like..... alternatively what if we just wait and also don't let him get his election predictions

would that be an acceptable compromise or would that just be the worst of both worlds

#1929

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:08 pm When have you ever seen TH scrambling? How is this AI? It's not, TH plays as inscrutable a game as he can. He isn't doing anything to make you not trust him. Tell me what he is doing to make you trust him?

This is a fair point, but just take a step away from your suspicion and answer me this.

You're an indy. You get more powerful by predicting two elections right. Do you tell everyone you're an indy who just needs to get two predictions right to win, or do you stay silent and just get two predictions right?

Like, in the scenario you are worried about, what's TH's motive for sharing what he's shared?

#1930

has Luna responded to Golden's big post on her yet

#1931

I think the suspicion of TH is illogical and based on how it 'feels' not on how it really is when you think it through.

#1932

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:39 pm has Luna responded to Golden's big post on her yet

Yep. She gave a meta defence.

#1933

nevermind i see she did

#1934

Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:34 pm I disagree. My whole point is how very much I disagree.

Idgi

#1935

Hey guys I'm an independent doctor.

#1936

did sig claim to be unlynchable?

#1937

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:42 pm
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:34 pm I disagree. My whole point is how very much I disagree.
Idgi

She is worried that TH is going to get some badass ability by surviving until tomorrow that will cause a big threat to us.

#1938

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:42 pm Hey guys I'm an independent doctor.

hey guys i have btsc with epi, he said "im gonna claim my real role"

we're eating corn flakes together

#1939

Something has occurred to me.

#1940

Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:46 pm did sig claim to be unlynchable?

Yeah, but he pretty much walked it back under pressure and in the end I think 'unlynchable' was simply code for 'can trigger an event where he vanishes and restarts the day'.

#1941

Golden wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:47 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:42 pm
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:34 pm I disagree. My whole point is how very much I disagree.
Idgi
She is worried that TH is going to get some badass ability by surviving until tomorrow that will cause a big threat to us.

maybe it's a soup kill, that'd be great wouldnt it?

#1942

Epignosis wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:47 pm Something has occurred to me.

Would you like to put any kind of at least vague specificity around this?

#1943

PS sprit I'm glad you're back and playing AND appear to be having fun. That's good

#1944

Golden wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:49 pm PS sprit I'm glad you're back and playing AND appear to be having fun. That's good

hehe yeah

#1945

Fine. You all win, I'll do what you want. Against my own feelings on this. [VOTE: lunalee] aubergine

You have someone who has claimed openly to not be civ aligned, and you want to believe them and possibly allow them the space to do what they want. We'll see how this goes. I hope you all are right.

#1946

er.....

that's not a bad point actually

as great as the case is, i'd be fine with either or. TH is claiming 3P and that secures us one less infraction to worry about as town

#1947

sprityo wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:51 pm er.....

that's not a bad point actually

as great as the case is, i'd be fine with either or. TH is claiming 3P and that secures us one less infraction to worry about as town

i was caught up in the granduer of golden's case

that also reminds me, are we just ignoring INH now orrr?

#1948

I see what golden is seeing in lunalee, if sig was mafia then luna makes sense as a teammate

I don't agree with her meta defense, if she were teammates with sig then she would still have to respond to the sig quin inh thing in some way, it was the main topic of conversation for a big chunk of time. avoiding discussing it completely would be weird.

im also realizing i skipped reading like 6 or 7 pages of content at some point whoops

#1949

Golden wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:47 pm
Kylemii wrote: ↑Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:46 pm did sig claim to be unlynchable?
Yeah, but he pretty much walked it back under pressure and in the end I think 'unlynchable' was simply code for 'can trigger an event where he vanishes and restarts the day'.

is sig not really dead then?

#1950

First of all, the host can kiss my ass for putting "Sig" in the thread title.