WWE MAFIA - Day 14

[kneel4justice]

Ok, I don't have much time right now, but I have decided to try a different tactic this game. I will be looking for baddies in the top posters instead of low posters. One if a baddie is lynched we get more info from said lynch than lynching a baddie low poster, and two I think it more likely given some of the players and style that there are baddies running part of this thread. (Three, it slows the thread down a bit getting rid of a few chatty mcchattersons)

The list of top 10 living posters:
Epignosis 119
Mongoose 118
kneel4justice 87
Mister Rearranger 85
S~V~S 85
Loulou26 77
MovingPictures07 61
Summer 59
FZ. 58
Devin the Omniscient 54
Bullzeye 51

One of you is getting my vote later today, but since I am still catching up, might take me a bit more time. Also, given my brief time with the ksiters this seems to be fairly normal for most of them, so gives me pause there as well. I will consider more today as the day progresses, but this is where I am currently thinking since I am not 100% following current in thread accusations without more catch-up.

I am always wary of those who come in saying they're using a different tactic. Just seems like an easy excuse to play differently from their "townie" game.

I'm not sure whether I should bring it up, but I noticed she's replacing Jenny, and I have a feeling there is more chance Jenny would drop out when she's a civvie than when she's a scum. But that's just assumptions. I think she wouldn't do it to her team if she were a civ, even if she didn't know any of them. Then again, maybe RL really prevented her from playing, and I don't know why she dropped out.

I disagree, and here is why. The only reason I see Jenny not pulling out of the game is if maybe she was scum with Lou or Summer. Normally, I would agree but this game there is something that was noticeably different. A replacement list. She didn't need to feel bad for dropping because it didn't really hurt her team if she was indeed scum.

[Turnip Head]

I don't remember if I'm a baddie or not. This has been my strategy from the beginning and I truly believe it will pay out in the end.

So if you don't remember if you're a baddie or not, how can you send in your PMs? Does this mean you don't have a role that sends in a power? Or are you missing your PM's?

Civvies send PMs too.

Yes... yes I'm aware...

That wasn't my point. Are you sending in your PM's at night? Or are you not even bothering because you don't even know your role? Even if you're a civvie and not sending in your PM, you are wasting civilian resources by not doing so.

I can't think of any reason not to vote for Vompatti. Some of you are calling this his "style"... I call it "playing like a boob". I'd much rather lynch Vompatti than lynch someone who is actually playing the game.

[A Person]

[kneel4justice]

I don't remember if I'm a baddie or not. This has been my strategy from the beginning and I truly believe it will pay out in the end.

So if you don't remember if you're a baddie or not, how can you send in your PMs? Does this mean you don't have a role that sends in a power? Or are you missing your PM's?

Civvies send PMs too.

Yes... yes I'm aware...

That wasn't my point. Are you sending in your PM's at night? Or are you not even bothering because you don't even know your role? Even if you're a civvie and not sending in your PM, you are wasting civilian resources by not doing so.

I can't think of any reason not to vote for Vompatti. Some of you are calling this his "style"... I call it "playing like a boob". I'd much rather lynch Vompatti than lynch someone who is actually playing the game.

Do you want to vote Vomp because you genuinely believe him to be scum or because you do not like the way he is playing?

[FZ.]

Ok, I don't have much time right now, but I have decided to try a different tactic this game. I will be looking for baddies in the top posters instead of low posters. One if a baddie is lynched we get more info from said lynch than lynching a baddie low poster, and two I think it more likely given some of the players and style that there are baddies running part of this thread. (Three, it slows the thread down a bit getting rid of a few chatty mcchattersons)

The list of top 10 living posters:
Epignosis 119
Mongoose 118
kneel4justice 87
Mister Rearranger 85
S~V~S 85
Loulou26 77
MovingPictures07 61
Summer 59
FZ. 58
Devin the Omniscient 54
Bullzeye 51

One of you is getting my vote later today, but since I am still catching up, might take me a bit more time. Also, given my brief time with the ksiters this seems to be fairly normal for most of them, so gives me pause there as well. I will consider more today as the day progresses, but this is where I am currently thinking since I am not 100% following current in thread accusations without more catch-up.

I am always wary of those who come in saying they're using a different tactic. Just seems like an easy excuse to play differently from their "townie" game.

I'm not sure whether I should bring it up, but I noticed she's replacing Jenny, and I have a feeling there is more chance Jenny would drop out when she's a civvie than when she's a scum. But that's just assumptions. I think she wouldn't do it to her team if she were a civ, even if she didn't know any of them. Then again, maybe RL really prevented her from playing, and I don't know why she dropped out.

I disagree, and here is why. The only reason I see Jenny not pulling out of the game is if maybe she was scum with Lou or Summer. Normally, I would agree but this game there is something that was noticeably different. A replacement list. She didn't need to feel bad for dropping because it didn't really hurt her team if she was indeed scum.

Maybe so, I'm just going by my memory of her preferring a baddie role. But maybe you're right

[Turnip Head]

Do you want to vote Vomp because you genuinely believe him to be scum or because you do not like the way he is playing?

Both. He's not playing to find baddies. So I suspect him.

[FZ.]

I don't remember if I'm a baddie or not. This has been my strategy from the beginning and I truly believe it will pay out in the end.

So if you don't remember if you're a baddie or not, how can you send in your PMs? Does this mean you don't have a role that sends in a power? Or are you missing your PM's?

Civvies send PMs too.

Yes... yes I'm aware...

That wasn't my point. Are you sending in your PM's at night? Or are you not even bothering because you don't even know your role? Even if you're a civvie and not sending in your PM, you are wasting civilian resources by not doing so.

I can't think of any reason not to vote for Vompatti. Some of you are calling this his "style"... I call it "playing like a boob". I'd much rather lynch Vompatti than lynch someone who is actually playing the game.

I can totally relate.

[Vompatti]

I don't remember if I'm a baddie or not. This has been my strategy from the beginning and I truly believe it will pay out in the end.

So if you don't remember if you're a baddie or not, how can you send in your PMs? Does this mean you don't have a role that sends in a power? Or are you missing your PM's?

Civvies send PMs too.

Yes... yes I'm aware...

That wasn't my point. Are you sending in your PM's at night? Or are you not even bothering because you don't even know your role? Even if you're a civvie and not sending in your PM, you are wasting civilian resources by not doing so.

I can't think of any reason not to vote for Vompatti. Some of you are calling this his "style"... I call it "playing like a boob". I'd much rather lynch Vompatti than lynch someone who is actually playing the game.

As far as I know I haven't missed any PMs yet. I don't mind being lynched but I don't see how you would benefit from lynching me if you were a civ.

[Turnip Head]

As far as I know I haven't missed any PMs yet. I don't mind being lynched but I don't see how you would benefit from lynching me if you were a civ.

Okay, who are you suspicious of then? Who would we benefit from lynching if not you?

[A Person]

Do you want to vote Vomp because you genuinely believe him to be scum or because you do not like the way he is playing?

Both. He's not playing to find baddies. So I suspect him.

I think playing to get rid of baddies is unfair for the baddies.

[FZ.]

I don't remember if I'm a baddie or not. This has been my strategy from the beginning and I truly believe it will pay out in the end.

So if you don't remember if you're a baddie or not, how can you send in your PMs? Does this mean you don't have a role that sends in a power? Or are you missing your PM's?

Civvies send PMs too.

Yes... yes I'm aware...

That wasn't my point. Are you sending in your PM's at night? Or are you not even bothering because you don't even know your role? Even if you're a civvie and not sending in your PM, you are wasting civilian resources by not doing so.

I can't think of any reason not to vote for Vompatti. Some of you are calling this his "style"... I call it "playing like a boob". I'd much rather lynch Vompatti than lynch someone who is actually playing the game.

As far as I know I haven't missed any PMs yet. I don't mind being lynched but I don't see how you would benefit from lynching me if you were a civ.

That's funny coming from the person who voted Vompatti

[Boomslang]

I don't remember if I'm a baddie or not. This has been my strategy from the beginning and I truly believe it will pay out in the end.

So if you don't remember if you're a baddie or not, how can you send in your PMs? Does this mean you don't have a role that sends in a power? Or are you missing your PM's?

Civvies send PMs too.

he's not wrong though

Yes, but he did say he doesn't remember if he's a baddie or not -- so how could he know what to send in for PMs if he doesn't know his role?

Though... it is Vomps. Maybe he knows his power but not his alignment -- or maybe he just randomly selects a username each time. Lol. Wouldn't be surprised.

What are your thoughts on everything right now, AP? You had some good things to say earlier, but I haven't seen much from you in a while other than your self-votes.

Had to take out my quote, because apparently you can't embed 6 quotes within each other? But this is exactly my point: if you don't know what your role is, you're not going to be sending in appropriate PMs. Also, excellent catch on Sorsha from Bullz; I'll have to check that out further.

Linki: A Person, you magnificent troll :P

[FZ.]

Civvies send PMs too.

he's not wrong though
Had to take out my quote, because apparently you can't embed 6 quotes within each other? But this is exactly my point: if you don't know what your role is, you're not going to be sending in appropriate PMs. Also, excellent catch on Sorsha from Bullz; I'll have to check that out further.

Linki: A Person, you magnificent troll :P

I don't find him that magnificent. I think he's a frustrated stand up comedian wanna-be, who can't find a place to spread his not so hilarious jokes, so he's playing mafia....No offense

[A Person]

iwasn't joke

[Vompatti]

As far as I know I haven't missed any PMs yet. I don't mind being lynched but I don't see how you would benefit from lynching me if you were a civ.

Okay, who are you suspicious of then? Who would we benefit from lynching if not you?

I don't have any info so I would suggest randomizing.

[Turnip Head]

I feel like I'm being punk'd. Is this a real mafia game?

[kneel4justice]

Do you want to vote Vomp because you genuinely believe him to be scum or because you do not like the way he is playing?

Both. He's not playing to find baddies. So I suspect him.

I don't know, is this out of character for Vomp? I assume he's always like this, and if that's the case I feel voting him at this stage of the game would be useless and driven by emotion rather than scum-hunting. I do get your point, and perhaps you're right, but I think the "not playing to find baddies" is just him being him. Someone correct me if I am wrong?
I would focus my attention elsewhere, it's definitely frustrating seeing some of these posts...but these threatening to vote posts just seem like talking to a wall. IDK.

[kneel4justice]

I want to try to make a list about how I feel about everyone, but problem is I don't know who half of you are or anything you've said all game. Playing with 25 new people is really difficult..

[Turnip Head]

When people said earlier in the game that this was just his style, I assumed they meant for his self voting the first couple of days. I understand now that his "style" is to contribute nothing to the game and to have no impact on the game whatsoever. Just taking up a role that would have either gone to someone else or simply been cut if he had not signed up. A fly on the wall. A stump in the dirt. I guess it does help to simulate a real town. There's always one jerk who isn't willing to help in a crisis

[FZ.]

I feel like TH and I are becoming a little rude, and if he's feeling anything like I am, it's coming out of frustration. I can speak for myself when I say, I don't mean to be rude, but I feel like there are some people who are playing just to annoy others. I'd love to know why they are playing, but to each their own. If someone enjoys winning by bringing nothing to the table, that's their prerogative. If that's what you mean by it will pay out in the end, enjoy. My idea of winning is either when you actually contribute to eliminating scum, or if you're a baddie, deceiving people into thinking you are contributing to the town's win. Obviously, it's something completely different for some. I'm just not going to bother, it's taking the fun out of the game. Since I'm new here and you all seem to play like that for some time, who am I to interrupt.

[Turnip Head]

I don't think Vomp will see our reactions as rude FZ. Our frustration is probably exactly what he's trolling for.

(But yes, mafia is never personal and we're all here to have a good time. I've just got a game to play, too )

[Mister Rearranger]

I'll say it again: I think Devin's doing all this "whatever, string me up" postulating because he know's he'll survive it.

There are civ, bad, and indie options for such a role though.

[Mister Rearranger]

Ebwop: I don't think Dex or Russ ever answered my post-night questions. How rude.

[Turnip Head]

Who are you looking at for your vote, MR?

[kneel4justice]

What do people think about Russ?

[FZ.]

What do people think about Russ?

Who's Russ?

[Mister Rearranger]

Who are you looking at for your vote, MR?

Dex was top of my list after Mata. Now, to go back and figure out why...

Russ and Epi were also fresh on my mind at the time, but now they're mixing it up, so yeah.

[FZ.]

What do people think about Russ?

Found him. He's looking pretty OK to me.

[Bass_the_Clever]

So far I find what Vomp is doing really weird but I have never played with him so how would I know whats wired for him or not.

I also think Russ voting for epig is a little off since day one he had no problem voting for mongoose based on epig case against her.

I haven't played a game yet where epig had been a baddie so I really don't know if his baddie game is different then his civ game but so far he seems to be playing like he normally does.

[Turnip Head]

What do people think about Russ?

I was suspicious of Russ for his earliest posts today. But his latest post put my suspicions on hold for now. I had commented on his earlier posts, implying that he was only posting vague thoughts and no concrete suspicions. His later posts seemed to try to address those concerns of mine, which I appreciated. I want to make sure I'm not unfairly looking at his posts in the wrong context, so I'd like to see more of his gameplay before I can really form an opinion on him.

I'm more suspicious of DP and Sorsha at this point. Sorsha hadn't been on my radar at all until someone, I think Bullzeye, made that post calling her out for blending in.

[Epignosis]

I voted Russtifinko.

[Bass_the_Clever]

FWIW Epi is definitely wrong about me. I think he knows this. I think he knew he was wrong about Mongoose. I don't think he cares about either of these things.

This is a highly suspect thing to say, given that there are two bad teams, not one, not to mention dangerous independents. How can I possibly know I was wrong about Mongoose being bad? Even if I were a role checker, I voted Mongoose Day 1.

I'm not surprised you said that. It seems everything I say is highly suspect to you. What I mean is your case on me isn't that good, and I don't think the case on Mongoose was either. I think you realised that but went with it anyway. When you voted her day two you said you were doing it because you 'were responsible for her lynch'. It sounded to me like you didn't really want to vote that way but felt like you should for whatever reason.

My vote against Mongoose was genuine. Mongoose was my top suspect. I'm not sure you would have liked the alternative, since my #2 suspicion was you. And with you going on about me knowing I'm wrong about people and voting them anyway...that's a hell of an accusation.

I don't like how you grilled Mongoose Day 1, and quickly backed off completely without stating why at the time (though you had plenty to say about it afterwards).

When I first posted against Mongoose I was a bit suspicious of her, but over time other players either went off her or said they thought she wasn't bad. Her responses to me also made me feel better. That left me with no suspicions so I did what I always do on day one in that case. I didn't see the need in posting every single thought I had about my vote as they occurred.

Okay. Some observations.

1. I just poured through Day 1 between the post in which you grilled Mongoose and the post where you said you would not be voting Mongoose. Not one person said they thought she wasn't bad. The closest you come is Summer saying "I don't think you are all that suspicious," but in that same post, Summer implied that she didn't find anyone suspicious. MP also said he was reading "a civvie Mongoose," however, he immediately followed up with "but," stating that MR had a good point against Mongoose.

2. Ironically, you are giving Devin and others the shake down because they followed someone else's opinion, which, in the above post, after the fact (rather than at the time) you confess to doing the same thing.

3. That's fair enough.

4. What you always do on Day one, then, is vote for a low poster. While I don't begrudge anyone their Day 1 methods (I don't agree with half of them), I find it unbelievable that with all the other discussion going on, and with all the people who had received votes, you had no other suspicions. After correcting Mongoose on the importance of Day 1 and all the information it could bring, you voted for a fluff reason.

And this reaction here is what really does it for me:

I will be voting for you next. Probably.

Is this even if Mongoose flips civ? Even though you think I'm her teammate? By all means push for my lynch, all you'll do is look bad when my role is revealed.

I'd like to think I'm not the kind of guy to fall for the gambler's fallacy.

Epig, just to play devil's advocate,

1. I did say repeatedly over and over I thought we were seeing a civvie Mongoose. Yes, I doubted it in that post for a split second, but I firmly believed she just made an honest mistake. I wasn't the only one.

2. Did Bullz actually vote for Mongoose though? He didn't blindly follow your vote. Russ, Bass, and Devin, Elo, and others, did. There's "following" and then there's taking it to the next level, voting, and contributing nothing else (nothing against any of the players I mentioned before, and I actually don't think half of them are baddie, though I do doubt the other half -- Bass and Russ), and has he not contributed to the game in other ways as well? I see Devin as likely civvie right now, and no offense meant, but Devin just came in and voted Mongoose based on your case. Bullzeye had contributed more during that period. Does it make him civvie? No, not necessarily at all. But it nullifies your point here.

4. Can a civvie not be guilty of this?

Now I don't know what's going on with Bullz this game, but I am currently reading him as just slightly more civvie currently, despite the well-illustrated points you've mad against him throughout this game. But I wanted to address these because I fear you're being way too singleminded in your suspicions so far; there is often a flipside to any point made, even if it is an excellent one. Do you have any thoughts about anyone else?

I dont know if you just missed my posted about why I voted mongoose because you were busy but I didn't blindly follow anyone I said I agreed with epig then went on to write the reasons I voted for her I didn't just say "voting mongoose because epig made a good case" I voted her because to me she didn't seem like the civ mongoose I just played with she seemed like a whole new person. It sucks that I wrong about her but it happen to everyone.

[kneel4justice]

I don't like Russ' vote for Epig. But maybe I am being stupid.
Bullz, do you still suspect Epig? Sorry I haven't fully caught up, doing last minute Christmas things.

[Bullzeye]

I don't like Russ' vote for Epig. But maybe I am being stupid.
Bullz, do you still suspect Epig? Sorry I haven't fully caught up, doing last minute Christmas things.

Well I don't not suspect him, if that means anything. His attitude during our night 2 conversation combined with the way certain players latched onto him made me wonder where his loyalties lie but more recent posts of his are making me feel a bit better about him. Ultimately I'm not sure but wouldn't try to talk anyone out of voting him if that's what they think is best.

[Bass_the_Clever]

Has CBK or WoG posted anything this game or have I just missed it ?

[Bullzeye]

Has CBK or WoG posted anything this game or have I just missed it ?

From the Who Posted list CBK has posted 6 times but WoG hasn't at all.


I might actually go with a Sorsha vote today. I think she was really blendy on day 2, literally never mentioned anything to do with being suspicious of Mongoose and took no part in the discussion on her then showed up to tack a vote on when the lynch was already pretty much decided. DP is very similar. I could see a vote for either of those two, I think they're both being deliberately blendy, following the crowd to avoid gaining attention.

[S~V~S]

I will say that Sorsha tends to play a blendy early game whether civ or bad, so of the two, I would lean more towards DP. When he is civ and has no idea whats going on, he will post a vote for someone with no votes before latching onto a bandwagon, especially if it is already decided.

I have to reread from when i went to work ( Christmas party was awesome, got lots of fun stuff from bosses & coworkers and an awesome lunch of linguini with clam sauce from my favorite italian place, so I am happy and ready to mafia )

[Russtifinko]

Whew! Post length and multi-quotes are getting out of control, guys. For real.

MP, you're right. I don't know what I was thinking this afternoon, suspecting you. I actually think I'm seeing a good MP this game. Just a busy one.

Epi, you're also right. SIlly to think you'd be getting Mongoose lynched in the hopes of framing Devin and I. What I should have said was that I believe you planned to have her lynched with an eye to leading other lynches on people who did vote her. You're putting words in my mouth by saying I don't take responsibility for my vote. I voted her under my own power, and it was a mistake. I maintain that you misled me (and others) with your huge, in-hindsight-anything-but-solid case, but that doesn't mean I couldn't have ignored it if I wished. I still agree with Dom that you were already distancing by the time Day 2 started, and I think your quick turnaround to saying I am a weevil is a natural step in that progression.

The rest of what's happened since I posted last was tl;dr. For real, guys, rein it in. Please?

Linki: MR, what was your question for me? Happy to answer if I can find it.

[Epignosis]

Russ, anything I do can be called a "natural step in that progression" after I've done it. Why don't you start predicting what I will do before I actually do it? That's a wee bit more difficult to do with success.

[S~V~S]

OK, I will think about this at work today. If i had to vote now, it would be between MP, Devin, & DP. Normally a post like Bullz' analysis of the Mongoose voters, but only the low posters, would ping the hell out of me, but I don't know that i agree with Epi on him, and he made some good points. Especially about DP~ I know DPs game pretty well, both bad and civ, and I don't see civ DP jumping on a bandwagon, he would vote a tangent, or even randomize later into the game than Day One. So that was rather blendy, and there is a difference between quiet and blendy.

It's not like I said I'm only looking at the low posters. I intend to go through the other five as well at some point. But I'm trying to write 1000 words per day to get an essay out of the way before Christmas and I've got interviews to write, surveys to make, exam revision and if I'm really lucky and get through everything quickly enough I can start to write up my other 10,000 word dissertation (just to give an idea of how busy I am). FWIW Epi is definitely wrong about me. I think he knows this. I think he knew he was wrong about Mongoose. I don't think he cares about either of these things.

The whole You v. Epi thing feels kinda civ/civ to me fwiw. I don't plan on voting for either of you.

Linki: Bullz: No matter which way you end up voting (myself or someone else), thank you for going to the trouble of analyzing my posts.

I know it was basically a rhetorical question but I'd be interested in your response to this:

People mistrust others all the time and [Devin] was far from the only person to do it in that lynch. So why would we lynch him specifically out of 10 living voters?

I realize my play style makes me stand out among the rest of the voters. I use this style when I don't care what happens to me, personally. I want to contribute to the greater cause, but I've failed at that thus far. I have little to no read on the rest of the Goose voters. That being said I was not the first to vote for mongoose (I tend to trust Russti more than most people, but that may be because 2 out of the 3 most recent games I've played I ended up with BTSC with him. Not the case here, so I don't know where he stands. Lizzy... Is Lizzy.) And I was far from the last person to bandwagon vote mongoose. The only person I am tweaked by in the mongoose vote is S-V-S (not including Epi, of course).

Sorry Mongoose. People do tend to misunderstand your game

Of all the votes yesterday, both for and against mongoose, the one who tweaked me the most was Devin; he sounded like he was absolutely fawning on Epi, then he voted before Epi did? There have been a lot of things going on in this thread, and maybe we can sort them out a bit better. I am looking forward to K4J being able to speak again.

So why did she vote mongoose?

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/postin ... =2&p=45700
No further justification as far as I could see. Is there anything you can give me to clear your vote up, SVS?

Well sure I have said before that I felt she was trying to divert discussion away from discussing the case against her; I felt that she was trying to avoid making any clear statements in a game with an LD, which would indicate that she may have been lying. This is why I voted for her; it had nothing to do with Epi or his opinions of her, and everything to do with me and my opinions of her.

I am just up to where MP says i am manipulating the thread, and makes one vote into a federal case. Did not want to quote that with this and make Russ' hed asplode. And Russ~ I am not bad, and i don't think Epi is. MP is, you can take THAT to the bank.

[Loulou26]

Wow okay so I have a lot of catching up to do. I totally spaced and forgot about the game last night, work is keeping me plenty busy. But I'm on Christmas break now so I'm going to try and be here more.

[FZ.]

I'm pissed. I just missed the lynch in the other game after staying up late and waiting for people to come in and talk or vote. Now I just want to go to sleep and I don't know who to vote for. None of the contributing people, who have votes on them, are ones I feel comfortable voting for, and I don't want my vote to go to waste.
Now, since I think SVS is a baddie in the other game, I'm trying to think maybe I'm wrong about her in this game I'm going to wait with voting for her and go with someone else for today.

I'm going with Elo, because her vote for Devin seems completely out of no where

[Loulou26]

I people seem to trust SVS, and I haven't read anything she said since I left, but her post when she voted for Mongoose felt really scummy to me. I'm too lazy to go find it, but maybe I should...

I also found her suspicious for the way she acted around the topic of Mongoose.

@Dom, interesting what you're saying about Epig. People are steady telling me that he is just being himself! SMH. What is the truth?! BTW- you are killing me with this "probably bad" stuff.

I see I am not alone in my suspicions, and I don't know how to take this. Are people latching onto the easier things, or are we on the right path? Hm.

I'm not so sure about Epig anymore. What would be the point of what he did? He went after Mongoose really hard so if he was a baddie it wouldn't be a very smart move would it?

[kneel4justice]

I think Boomslang has a point that Vomps is just being silly now. I appreciate the humor of your play Vomps, even though I think it's a little mean to try getting under new players' nerves so much. But how are we supposed to play mafia with you when you refuse to do the things that the game is about, like talking about on-topic things?

I reread Dom, k4j, and A Person. I have absolutely nothing on A Person, he could very well be good or bad. I remember thinking he was suspicious a few days ago, but I can't remember why now. It just seems a standard game for him.

Dom has been contributing tons of good analysis, more than I'm used to from him. He seems to be thinking along similar lines as me regarding Epi, but he reached his conclusions before the Mongoose lynch, which I wish I had done. K4J uses TONS of multiquotes and abbreviations I don't know like IGMEOY and FOS, and makes long posts. Reading his posts sheds some light on KSiters for me. I'd love ot hear more from Summer regarding the suspicions directed at her (him?) especially.

I'm starting to think it's possible that MP, S~V~S, and Epi are all bad. Not necessarily on the same team, but bad.

I also think it's possible Mata was, because of the post below. She could've just been wrong about lots of stuff, but her opinions are so different from what I'm thinking, and her Mongoose vote seemed so reluctant. People are wondering why Mata got killed, because she may have drawn some suspicion today. I know when I'm a baddie, I consider other baddie teams a bigger threat than civs. If the other team thought she was bad, why not eliminate her instead of hoping she got lynched and waiting 2 nights? If she is bad, that assumes the other baddie team wasn't worried that one of their own would be under suspicion if she wasn't around. Obviously it's academic at this point, I'm just saying. Hopefully it makes sense to people.

I am not suspicious of mongoose because of the mistake or her otw view on lynching baddies. But I do think she might have too many irons in the fire (as in juggling games and chat rooms). I am trusting SVS right now, she seems her civvie self, (I know ppl hate it when their styles get compared, but it's all I have to look at this early) and I don't see a reason right now to mistrust Epig.

linki: Lizzy, fair enough. I wouldn't either if I weren't me. People were demanding more participation, and I got free time, so they got it all in one chunk.

You reread me, yet you didn't really state any kind of opinion on me. I am confused, isn't that a bit weird?

[kneel4justice]

I'm pissed. I just missed the lynch in the other game after staying up late and waiting for people to come in and talk or vote. Now I just want to go to sleep and I don't know who to vote for. None of the contributing people, who have votes on them, are ones I feel comfortable voting for, and I don't want my vote to go to waste.
Now, since I think SVS is a baddie in the other game, I'm trying to think maybe I'm wrong about her in this game I'm going to wait with voting for her and go with someone else for today.

I'm going with Elo, because her vote for Devin seems completely out of no where

Did you vote yet? Maybe us KSITE players can put our heads together. Do you think Epig is a townie?

[Sorsha]

Has CBK or WoG posted anything this game or have I just missed it ?

From the Who Posted list CBK has posted 6 times but WoG hasn't at all.


I might actually go with a Sorsha vote today. I think she was really blendy on day 2, literally never mentioned anything to do with being suspicious of Mongoose and took no part in the discussion on her then showed up to tack a vote on when the lynch was already pretty much decided. DP is very similar. I could see a vote for either of those two, I think they're both being deliberately blendy, following the crowd to avoid gaining attention.

Do it then.. I really just wanted the cluster fuck of what went on to be over. It was a huge distraction, frustrating and not even worth putting my 2 cents in on.

I'm probably voting for vomps today, for voting for himself.

[FZ.]

I'm pissed. I just missed the lynch in the other game after staying up late and waiting for people to come in and talk or vote. Now I just want to go to sleep and I don't know who to vote for. None of the contributing people, who have votes on them, are ones I feel comfortable voting for, and I don't want my vote to go to waste.
Now, since I think SVS is a baddie in the other game, I'm trying to think maybe I'm wrong about her in this game I'm going to wait with voting for her and go with someone else for today.

I'm going with Elo, because her vote for Devin seems completely out of no where

Did you vote yet? Maybe us KSITE players can put our heads together. Do you think Epig is a townie?

Sorry, I did. I waited for someone to comment, but when I saw no one did, I voted. Too tired to think anymore. I'm torn about Epig. Almost voted for him, but couldn't make up my mind. I'm going to sleep. Think about Elo. It seemed like such an easy way out. Especially at this stage.

[Tangrowth]

Alright! I'm here, off work for a few days, with mostly relaxation ahead of me -- which is a welcome change. Time for some more mafia!

Thank you very much for the vote links Epig!

I realize my play style makes me stand out among the rest of the voters. I use this style when I don't care what happens to me, personally.

You made that easy for me. *votes Dev*

That's all you've got? After all the talk in all these days? Sounds scummy to me. He actually managed to convince me he is a civvie. It's funny that all he said made you think he's a baddie.

FWIW this is pretty par for the course from Elo. I don't necessarily suspect her at this point, personally.

Do you want to vote Vomp because you genuinely believe him to be scum or because you do not like the way he is playing?

Both. He's not playing to find baddies. So I suspect him.

I don't know, is this out of character for Vomp? I assume he's always like this, and if that's the case I feel voting him at this stage of the game would be useless and driven by emotion rather than scum-hunting. I do get your point, and perhaps you're right, but I think the "not playing to find baddies" is just him being him. Someone correct me if I am wrong?
I would focus my attention elsewhere, it's definitely frustrating seeing some of these posts...but these threatening to vote posts just seem like talking to a wall. IDK.

I feel like TH and I are becoming a little rude, and if he's feeling anything like I am, it's coming out of frustration. I can speak for myself when I say, I don't mean to be rude, but I feel like there are some people who are playing just to annoy others. I'd love to know why they are playing, but to each their own. If someone enjoys winning by bringing nothing to the table, that's their prerogative. If that's what you mean by it will pay out in the end, enjoy. My idea of winning is either when you actually contribute to eliminating scum, or if you're a baddie, deceiving people into thinking you are contributing to the town's win. Obviously, it's something completely different for some. I'm just not going to bother, it's taking the fun out of the game. Since I'm new here and you all seem to play like that for some time, who am I to interrupt.

To address all of this stuff...

This is completely IN character for Vomp. However, there are some games where he's gotten into the game and contributed more and others where he has been straight up like this one.

I suppose it can be frustrating, but if it helps to put things in perspective, we have a mashup of a few different communities here, as well as others who have come from various other sources.

But to clarify, some of us are from ProgArchives, where I introduced a bunch of players to mafia, and the ProgArchives players tend to fall into two smaller groups IMO. The group with me, llama, Epig, Snow Dog BWT, etc., who tend to take a more traditional (logical, sometimes aggressive) approach to playing mafia, and those who developed their own approach to the game that is more untraditional (indecisive, less logical, much less aggressive) -- DP, Vomps, AP, Lizzy, etc. I think >SpaghettiEverywhere (who is not playing this game) put it very nicely in a post in Bioshock where he spoke about there being a difference in mafia perspective -- and that some players who are outnumbered by the more 'traditional' approach just don't see as much stock in building cases, talking incessantly, etc. They personally feel that you have just as good, if not a better chance, at finding scum in randomizing completely, and that success rates in building cases, lessening the impact of lower, 'blendier' posters, etc. is too low to give it true merit (I am paraphrasing).

Everyone's individual playstyle is different, and Vomps (and AP and Lizzy), though all different, do take this mantra to an extreme -- but hopefully that sort of helps to clarify.

I've seen games where Lizzy, Vomps, and AP were lynched right off the bat too many times just because they approach the game way differently than everyone else.

Yes, it makes them hard to read, but as long as they sign up, actually play, and are having fun, what's it matter?

All of that said, anyone and everyone is welcome to suspect them for what they're doing -- that's part of the game.

Personally, I have had a slightly civvie-leaning read on AP earlier in this game, a ???? on Vomps (of course), and a slightly baddie-leaning on Lizzy, but what do I know?

I'll say it again: I think Devin's doing all this "whatever, string me up" postulating because he know's he'll survive it.

There are civ, bad, and indie options for such a role though.

I think you're reading too much into it -- Devin has done this before, and more importantly, done so when it was actually AGAINST his role's best interest to die (he was a civvie protector).

He could be doing it for that reason, but he doesn't have to be, and I personally think that is not the reason.

I dont know if you just missed my posted about why I voted mongoose because you were busy but I didn't blindly follow anyone I said I agreed with epig then went on to write the reasons I voted for her I didn't just say "voting mongoose because epig made a good case" I voted her because to me she didn't seem like the civ mongoose I just played with she seemed like a whole new person. It sucks that I wrong about her but it happen to everyone.

Thank you, I appreciate the response. That does help put it in perspective. Still eyeing you, but your explanation makes sense.

I will say that Sorsha tends to play a blendy early game whether civ or bad, so of the two, I would lean more towards DP. When he is civ and has no idea whats going on, he will post a vote for someone with no votes before latching onto a bandwagon, especially if it is already decided.

I have to reread from when i went to work ( Christmas party was awesome, got lots of fun stuff from bosses & coworkers and an awesome lunch of linguini with clam sauce from my favorite italian place, so I am happy and ready to mafia )

This I actually agree with. This seems pretty par for the course from Sorsha. DP I am a bit shocked he just went along with the bandwagon too but I have no idea whether he's civvie or not.

Whew! Post length and multi-quotes are getting out of control, guys. For real.

MP, you're right. I don't know what I was thinking this afternoon, suspecting you. I actually think I'm seeing a good MP this game. Just a busy one.

Epi, you're also right. SIlly to think you'd be getting Mongoose lynched in the hopes of framing Devin and I. What I should have said was that I believe you planned to have her lynched with an eye to leading other lynches on people who did vote her. You're putting words in my mouth by saying I don't take responsibility for my vote. I voted her under my own power, and it was a mistake. I maintain that you misled me (and others) with your huge, in-hindsight-anything-but-solid case, but that doesn't mean I couldn't have ignored it if I wished. I still agree with Dom that you were already distancing by the time Day 2 started, and I think your quick turnaround to saying I am a weevil is a natural step in that progression.

The rest of what's happened since I posted last was tl;dr. For real, guys, rein it in. Please?

Linki: MR, what was your question for me? Happy to answer if I can find it.

Woah!! Didn't expect that kind of turn-around from you. Why the mind change or did I not catch some sarcasm?

WOAH tons of linkitis.

[Tangrowth]

OK, I will think about this at work today. If i had to vote now, it would be between MP, Devin, & DP. Normally a post like Bullz' analysis of the Mongoose voters, but only the low posters, would ping the hell out of me, but I don't know that i agree with Epi on him, and he made some good points. Especially about DP~ I know DPs game pretty well, both bad and civ, and I don't see civ DP jumping on a bandwagon, he would vote a tangent, or even randomize later into the game than Day One. So that was rather blendy, and there is a difference between quiet and blendy.

It's not like I said I'm only looking at the low posters. I intend to go through the other five as well at some point. But I'm trying to write 1000 words per day to get an essay out of the way before Christmas and I've got interviews to write, surveys to make, exam revision and if I'm really lucky and get through everything quickly enough I can start to write up my other 10,000 word dissertation (just to give an idea of how busy I am). FWIW Epi is definitely wrong about me. I think he knows this. I think he knew he was wrong about Mongoose. I don't think he cares about either of these things.

The whole You v. Epi thing feels kinda civ/civ to me fwiw. I don't plan on voting for either of you.

Linki: Bullz: No matter which way you end up voting (myself or someone else), thank you for going to the trouble of analyzing my posts.

I know it was basically a rhetorical question but I'd be interested in your response to this:

People mistrust others all the time and [Devin] was far from the only person to do it in that lynch. So why would we lynch him specifically out of 10 living voters?

I realize my play style makes me stand out among the rest of the voters. I use this style when I don't care what happens to me, personally. I want to contribute to the greater cause, but I've failed at that thus far. I have little to no read on the rest of the Goose voters. That being said I was not the first to vote for mongoose (I tend to trust Russti more than most people, but that may be because 2 out of the 3 most recent games I've played I ended up with BTSC with him. Not the case here, so I don't know where he stands. Lizzy... Is Lizzy.) And I was far from the last person to bandwagon vote mongoose. The only person I am tweaked by in the mongoose vote is S-V-S (not including Epi, of course).

Sorry Mongoose. People do tend to misunderstand your game

Of all the votes yesterday, both for and against mongoose, the one who tweaked me the most was Devin; he sounded like he was absolutely fawning on Epi, then he voted before Epi did? There have been a lot of things going on in this thread, and maybe we can sort them out a bit better. I am looking forward to K4J being able to speak again.

So why did she vote mongoose?

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/postin ... =2&p=45700
No further justification as far as I could see. Is there anything you can give me to clear your vote up, SVS?

Well sure I have said before that I felt she was trying to divert discussion away from discussing the case against her; I felt that she was trying to avoid making any clear statements in a game with an LD, which would indicate that she may have been lying. This is why I voted for her; it had nothing to do with Epi or his opinions of her, and everything to do with me and my opinions of her.

I am just up to where MP says i am manipulating the thread, and makes one vote into a federal case. Did not want to quote that with this and make Russ' hed asplode. And Russ~ I am not bad, and i don't think Epi is. MP is, you can take THAT to the bank.

So now you're 100% sure I'm bad?

I don't even understand your case against me honestly, but it's pinging me all the more.

[Tangrowth]

Also, for anyone interested, I actually dug up that post from SE in Bioshock out of curiosity and for old time's sake!

Nah, I like watching everything unfold from the afueras. That's just how I like to play mafia. I'll leave the public speculation to you folks. Forgive the intrusion, I'll only butt in when the game dictates I have to.

Well then, I'm going to force you to play

I'm going to vote for you tomorrow, and I am going to campaign for other people to vote for you too.

(I'm also looking at a few other people, and I might post my thoughts later if I can bring them all together. But for right now, this seems like the most fun thing to devote my time too.)

Added: Quiet players get a rougher time because being quiet usually means you are trying to blend in and avoid notice. Something baddies do. It's harder for a bad player to be vocal because they have to bullshit most of the time, and it is only a matter of time before someone calls you on bullshit. Some people are really good and being vocal baddies, but it is a difficult art to master.

I'm reading you as baddie. Perfectly content to sit back and watch everyone else make mistakes while you slide by day by day. Not on my watch.

Added: Novel reasoning Dex.

Just wanna say something because this is what gets me frustrated at almost every single mafia game. Just because a player is quiet does not mean they are bad. Yes, baddies do sometimes lay low to avoid attention. But baddies also can be talkative in a game. Play style does not dictate affiliation on either the good or the bad teams. Just ask MP. He is always one of the most vocal people in every game and just because he is vocal does not make him a civilian every single time, just as someone being a quieter player does not make him or her a baddie. The problem with these games, as Kev (agleaminranks) pointed out, is that the antics that happen in each game most of the time consists of someone throwing out some bullhonkey accusation that seems to stick with everyone else for some reason and then that person ends up getting killed. There is never any concrete evidence and the whole game plays out as more of a guess-and-check type deal and the people that win are the people that happened to get luckier than everyone else. As mattchu pointer out earlier, the things that would incriminate someone happen outside of public knowledge in the thread, and the reasons people get lynched is usually for some reason that has nothing supporting it, just some half-hearted accusations that cant necessarily be proved or disproved, just people hop on board with it. "BADDIES DO THIS, YOU MUST BE BADDIE" is not a reason to kill someone, nor is "I READ YOU AS A BADDIE YOU MUST BE BAD EVERYONE VOTE HIM" Point is, play style does not make someone bad, good, or anything for that matter. It's like saying someone cant write good literature because they are left handed.