Firefly, The Game [GAME OVER]

[Glorfindel]

That question might be unfair to answer, because you can't give specifics of an ongoing game, so never mind. But let me ask you another way - do you think it's fair for me to characterise you here as quieter than you need to be?

I think you might be asking this question of the wrong person, my friend...

[Golden]

That question might be unfair to answer, because you can't give specifics of an ongoing game, so never mind. But let me ask you another way - do you think it's fair for me to characterise you here as quieter than you need to be?

I think you might be asking this question of the wrong person, my friend...

Who else do you think this applies to?

[Golden]

Mac? That would be fair. DH seems fairly even in both perhaps.

[Glorfindel]

That question might be unfair to answer, because you can't give specifics of an ongoing game, so never mind. But let me ask you another way - do you think it's fair for me to characterise you here as quieter than you need to be?

I think you might be asking this question of the wrong person, my friend...

Who else do you think this applies to?

You are having me on, are you not?

[Golden]

That question might be unfair to answer, because you can't give specifics of an ongoing game, so never mind. But let me ask you another way - do you think it's fair for me to characterise you here as quieter than you need to be?

I think you might be asking this question of the wrong person, my friend...

Who else do you think this applies to?

You are having me on, are you not?

No?

[Glorfindel]

That question might be unfair to answer, because you can't give specifics of an ongoing game, so never mind. But let me ask you another way - do you think it's fair for me to characterise you here as quieter than you need to be?

I think you might be asking this question of the wrong person, my friend...

Who else do you think this applies to?

You are having me on, are you not?

No?

I’m not saying that you are wrong in the application of your logic and the conclusions that you’ve drawn but I fear that you are failing to keep an entirely open mind to what is happening in this game, my friend.

[Golden]

That question might be unfair to answer, because you can't give specifics of an ongoing game, so never mind. But let me ask you another way - do you think it's fair for me to characterise you here as quieter than you need to be?

I think you might be asking this question of the wrong person, my friend...

Who else do you think this applies to?

You are having me on, are you not?

No?

I’m not saying that you are wrong in the application of your logic and the conclusions that you’ve drawn but I fear that you are failing to keep an entirely open mind to what is happening in this game, my friend.

I don’t understand what you’re seeing. Can you be more clear?

[Glorfindel]

That question might be unfair to answer, because you can't give specifics of an ongoing game, so never mind. But let me ask you another way - do you think it's fair for me to characterise you here as quieter than you need to be?

I think you might be asking this question of the wrong person, my friend...

Who else do you think this applies to?

You are having me on, are you not?

No?

I’m not saying that you are wrong in the application of your logic and the conclusions that you’ve drawn but I fear that you are failing to keep an entirely open mind to what is happening in this game, my friend.

I don’t understand what you’re seeing. Can you be more clear?

Who was it that lit the fire under that appalling Dr Wilgy wagon? Yes, our friend Epi with that excerpt of Dan’s post allegedly implicating Wilgy. I didn’t buy it and have been proven right in not having done so. Yeah, it’s been an age since I’ve played here but my recollections of having played with Epi are still strong. The Epi I remember would never have accepted so blindly such a disingenuous case brought up by anyone else so why was he satisfied to do so himself on this occasion? Where is that laser-like analysis of which he is capable? Where in fact IS he? He’s barely posted. Why is no one talking about him? He’s one of the best and most experienced players on this site. I don’t know about you but I smell a very big, stinky rat...

[Golden]

Oh, glorf. I thought you were responding to my first question not the second.

I hear you. I’m just comparing the activity in the heist game to here. I don’t think it’s inherently a problem to be quiet. But I do think it’s a problem when quiet is out of character or out of line with time on the site.

Linki - epi, interesting. I’ve been getting solid town vibes from him. I felt his wilgy case was reasonable enough, what I like less is people jumping on other similar throw away lines from sokoth now that it’s clear he was careless with town members in this way. I don’t think we can simply assume every off handed comment from sokoth means someone is his teammate.

This actually bothers me about nova. He was solid townreading wilgy but susoects marmot for a similar reason to epis case on wilgy.

Nova, what is the difference you see between Sokoths approach to wilgy and to marmot?

[Turnip Head]

I approve of glorfindel trying to open up his captain's mind lol

Epi has been pretty soft-spoken so far

[Golden]

I’m never closed minded, no matter how I may appear. I’m just also not pushed over by a feather.

[novaselinenever]

Oh, glorf. I thought you were responding to my first question not the second.

I hear you. I’m just comparing the activity in the heist game to here. I don’t think it’s inherently a problem to be quiet. But I do think it’s a problem when quiet is out of character or out of line with time on the site.

Linki - epi, interesting. I’ve been getting solid town vibes from him. I felt his wilgy case was reasonable enough, what I like less is people jumping on other similar throw away lines from sokoth now that it’s clear he was careless with town members in this way. I don’t think we can simply assume every off handed comment from sokoth means someone is his teammate.

This actually bothers me about nova. He was solid townreading wilgy but susoects marmot for a similar reason to epis case on wilgy.

Nova, what is the difference you see between Sokoths approach to wilgy and to marmot?

It was an earlier post of his about Luna and Wilgy. It made me Town read both of them, and I shared it in our ship.

Spoiler: show

So its time for me to weigh in I guess. I've been going over everyones that's on the Vote's posts. Here is my two cents:

Glorf - While I had initial suspicions of him initially, which was primarily founded on this focus of his meta. I do believe that he very well is a good player and not a baddie. He's been defensive of players, and his Captain and has only really lashed out when one of those was put in the hot seat. So I've swung this vote from red to green.

DDL - Though most people seem to think DDL is a baddie, I'm not entirely convinced. I've seen it swing either way so I am on the ropes with DDL but the way that DDL has reacted even despite his being ejected from his crew. This does not scream bad to me. So I'm again swinging my thoughts from Badish to good.

DrWilgy - Lurking in the shadows. Very low activity from what I've seen but most of what they have posted has not really carried much substance. I suppose the real life reason for inactivity should be considered. I'm on the ropes here. Earlier on they were pretty aggresive with some comments. One thing that stood out to me and still rings is "My Votes have gone to preventing a cowered from being Captain, I'll hold my 4th". This still resonates with me and has pushed my vote over to the bad side. I'm still curious why Wilgy would label Golden a Cowered as I Believe that is where that comment was directed. So... Yeah. And Silence for a long period from the 9th up until...?

DFaraday - Not very active. Mostly responsive to post but nothing that really stands out to me.

Kylemii - Wizard Stuff? Is this some kind of misdirect and avoidance of the Topics at hand? Has not really been helpful but has not hurt. Someone I'm watching to see where this goes as we move on. Leaning Bad.

Luna - Reading through your posts I didn't honestly see anything that stood out as bad up until you ejected DDL from your crew. I'm still not sure I understand why. I thought your handling of your crew pointed to good, but your comments to take in "Jaded" crew. Then when Challenged on it, you 180'ed and said it was a joke. Kind of Strange to me. Those two points combined have me thinking you hail from the dark side of things.

Lapluie... ? Not really here? LOL

Marmot - No real substance to posts until somewhat recently. The vote for Mac without reason kind of through me. I would be interested to know why you threw Mac Under the bus.

SpeedChuck - This suggestion to Lynch ships that have more crew while a good tactic for a win, I'm not sure if I can tell if it was a "Bad' or "Good" Suggestion. It could be both. Mostly seems to play devils advocate between posts.

This is all I've got so far from reading through things and following. Some of the most recent posts are not really analyized here. But yeah. Observations.

So I'm leaning on DrWilgy, and Luna to be honest. I would like other opinions on why I shouldn't vote for one of them or which one I should over the other?

The conclusion (bolded part) reads to me like a wolf at ease, and spoilt for choice. Like he doesn't care which one goes, and he's just opening option for himself to vote. It's a mislynch either way lol.
The allegedly incriminating post that Epi pointed out read to me just as a continuation of his earlier stance, and he decided to go for one of the two to save himself since his wagon wasn't that far behind as well.

With Marmot on the other hand, he goes about it in another way to mention his inactivity and attempt to interact with him by asking a direct question. That feel scripted, and that's not even taking into a account the content. "throwing mac under the bus" lol.
I'm also still trying to find the "substance post" that he allegedly recently saw from Marmot. Maybe I'll have to wait until the EoG to take a look into the baddie QT

[nutella]

I’m never closed minded, no matter how I may appear. I’m just also not pushed over by a feather.

What about a fish?

[Enrique]

slaps nutella around a bit with a large trout

[Epignosis]

I think you might be asking this question of the wrong person, my friend...

Who else do you think this applies to?

You are having me on, are you not?

No?

I’m not saying that you are wrong in the application of your logic and the conclusions that you’ve drawn but I fear that you are failing to keep an entirely open mind to what is happening in this game, my friend.

I don’t understand what you’re seeing. Can you be more clear?

Who was it that lit the fire under that appalling Dr Wilgy wagon? Yes, our friend Epi with that excerpt of Dan’s post allegedly implicating Wilgy. I didn’t buy it and have been proven right in not having done so. Yeah, it’s been an age since I’ve played here but my recollections of having played with Epi are still strong. The Epi I remember would never have accepted so blindly such a disingenuous case brought up by anyone else so why was he satisfied to do so himself on this occasion? Where is that laser-like analysis of which he is capable? Where in fact IS he? He’s barely posted. Why is no one talking about him? He’s one of the best and most experienced players on this site. I don’t know about you but I smell a very big, stinky rat...

[DharmaHelper]

Epignosis is the third party

Discuss.

[MacDougall]

Big save attempt on Faraday here

[DharmaHelper]

Big save attempt on Faraday here

I'm 60-75% sure Faraday is a civ.

[MacDougall]

Big save attempt on Faraday here

I'm 60-75% sure Faraday is a civ.

You just made that up for some weird reason

[novaselinenever]

Big save attempt on Faraday here

They're the same votes that jumped on DFaraday when you proclaimed him bad. What did you think of that initial bandwagon, and now the switch?

[MacDougall]

Big save attempt on Faraday here

They're the same votes that jumped on DFaraday when you proclaimed him bad. What did you think of that initial bandwagon, and now the switch?

Well I just made it up and they all piled on and now the more sensible people argued it and gradually peeled them off so they are probably at least 1 or 2 scum. I don't even really have a reason to vote Faraday.

[novaselinenever]

Speedchuck, Nutella and TH

[novaselinenever]

Naahhh

[DharmaHelper]

Speedchuck, Nutella and TH

[Epignosis]

I hate having to phone post with a passion.

Try calming down first, and then phone posting.

[Turnip Head]

I voted Marmot as a clunterwagon to DFs self vote but then Marmot self voted and then here we are difference is Marmot stuck around a lil and faraday peaced out

[novaselinenever]

Speedchuck, Nutella and TH

[novaselinenever]

I voted Marmot as a clunterwagon to DFs self vote but then Marmot self voted and then here we are difference is Marmot stuck around a lil and faraday peaced out

What if they're making fun of us in the Baddie QT? They made a bet both have to self-vote, and to see which one of them would get lynched.

[Epignosis]

Golden....

https://i.imgur.com/dd20Xv5.gifv

Here's my thing right now Golden. I don't get why you seem hellbent on painting me into this tiny little corner of badness you've set aside for me. When I look at your other reads, you seem to have some degree of... what's the word... consideration, like you're working through your thoughts on them. When you come at me though it's just a brick wall of suspicion. You're not engaging me, you're stonewalling me. I'm struggling to understand why you've approached me this way since essentially the beginning of the game. It feels irrational to me.

This is false. You’ve had copious opportunities to engage with my suspicion and all you’ve done is dismiss dismiss dismiss. This is the first post in four days where you’ve given the slightest indication of taking me seriously.

As you know - I shouldn’t have to remind you or anyone of this - in couragei genuinely thought you were bad. It was genuine hunting in which I read your iso several times, engaged with you, specified what I thought you were up to. That I happened to also be bad in that game is an easy but insincere way of doing more dismissal.

[Epignosis]

As you know - I shouldn’t have to remind you or anyone of this - in couragei genuinely thought you were bad. It was genuine hunting in which I read your iso several times, engaged with you, specified what I thought you were up to. That I happened to also be bad in that game is an easy but insincere way of doing more dismissal.

Also, c'mon dude. You mischaracterized my ISO enough in Courage to make me realize you were bad there. On top of that I was literally going after your teammate most of that game. There was nothing "genuine" about how you hunted me in that game. You were mafia and you played accordingly.

You seem to be a master at the art of the spin, though, I gotta give you props for that

I did zero misrepresentation whatsoever.

My going after you was 100% genuine which I said throughout the game and after. I didn't go after you because you were after a teammate. I don't give a shit when people are after my teammates.

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

[Turnip Head]

I voted Marmot as a clunterwagon to DFs self vote but then Marmot self voted and then here we are difference is Marmot stuck around a lil and faraday peaced out

What if they're making fun of us in the Baddie QT? They made a bet both have to self-vote, and to see which one of them would get lynched.

Hmm I don't see it unless their team has imploded somehow. Marmot doesn't surprise me so much but this seems out of character for DF.

[MacDougall]

Does anyone actually have a scum case on either Faraday or Marmot?

[MacDougall]

Hypothetically if everyone was on the poll where would your votes be?

[novaselinenever]

[mention]DharmaHelper[/mention] I'm dumb. I didn't notice that you had made an edit, and I thought we were playing a game of quoting without saying anything

[Golden]

Golden....

https://i.imgur.com/dd20Xv5.gifv

Here's my thing right now Golden. I don't get why you seem hellbent on painting me into this tiny little corner of badness you've set aside for me. When I look at your other reads, you seem to have some degree of... what's the word... consideration, like you're working through your thoughts on them. When you come at me though it's just a brick wall of suspicion. You're not engaging me, you're stonewalling me. I'm struggling to understand why you've approached me this way since essentially the beginning of the game. It feels irrational to me.

This is false. You’ve had copious opportunities to engage with my suspicion and all you’ve done is dismiss dismiss dismiss. This is the first post in four days where you’ve given the slightest indication of taking me seriously.

As you know - I shouldn’t have to remind you or anyone of this - in couragei genuinely thought you were bad. It was genuine hunting in which I read your iso several times, engaged with you, specified what I thought you were up to. That I happened to also be bad in that game is an easy but insincere way of doing more dismissal.

TH is suggesting that I didn’t genuinely believe he was bad there, and my behaviour is the same here, therefore I don’t think he’s genuinely bad here.

It has a false starting point.

You seem to be reading it out of context to suggest it implies ‘I don’t genuinely suspect TH here’. This is both false and missing the context.

[Golden]

As you know - I shouldn’t have to remind you or anyone of this - in couragei genuinely thought you were bad. It was genuine hunting in which I read your iso several times, engaged with you, specified what I thought you were up to. That I happened to also be bad in that game is an easy but insincere way of doing more dismissal.

Also, c'mon dude. You mischaracterized my ISO enough in Courage to make me realize you were bad there. On top of that I was literally going after your teammate most of that game. There was nothing "genuine" about how you hunted me in that game. You were mafia and you played accordingly.

You seem to be a master at the art of the spin, though, I gotta give you props for that

I did zero misrepresentation whatsoever.

My going after you was 100% genuine which I said throughout the game and after. I didn't go after you because you were after a teammate. I don't give a shit when people are after my teammates.

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Don’t start with this condescending stuff please.

[novaselinenever]

Does anyone actually have a scum case on either Faraday or Marmot?

If you call this a case. My old friend Sokoth would call it weak, and lacking substance

Marmot - No real substance to posts until somewhat recently. The vote for Mac without reason kind of through me. I would be interested to

I think Sokoth is talking about the scum chat in this post, because I'm struggling to find these "substance" posts from Marmot he's referring to. The "somewhat recently" seals it for me.

Case closed. Marmot is bad

It's been two days and I have no clue what he means by "throwing Mac under the bus". Also, I'm not sure how to explain it but the direct question to Marmot in this post is pinging me.

With Marmot on the other hand, he goes about it in another way to mention his inactivity and attempt to interact with him by asking a direct question. That feel scripted, and that's not even taking into a account the content. "throwing mac under the bus" lol.
I'm also still trying to find the "substance post" that he allegedly recently saw from Marmot. Maybe I'll have to wait until the EoG to take a look into the baddie QT

[novaselinenever]

I voted Marmot as a clunterwagon to DFs self vote but then Marmot self voted and then here we are difference is Marmot stuck around a lil and faraday peaced out

What if they're making fun of us in the Baddie QT? They made a bet both have to self-vote, and to see which one of them would get lynched.

Hmm I don't see it unless their team has imploded somehow. Marmot doesn't surprise me so much but this seems out of character for DF.

I was trying to be funny

[MacDougall]

In fairness I haven't really managed to get into the game much but I am curious why it feels like there is no strong town effort here. The ship teams appear to have really dulled collective scum hunting in this game. Post count might not be the best thing to look at but if you look here we're on day 4 on 2134 posts and over in the other game where we got scum on day one it's night one and it's on 3035 posts.

In isolation I am wondering if the perceived town leaders are really trying here.

[DharmaHelper]

@DharmaHelper I'm dumb. I didn't notice that you had made an edit, and I thought we were playing a game of quoting without saying anything

[Golden]

In isolation I am wondering if the perceived town leaders are really trying here.

I couldn’t agree more. This partly accounts for my DDL town read, other than me it feels like he was the only other one trying early. DH and speed I feel are really trying to. Beyond that...

This is why I find it frustrating when both my town read on df and scum read on TH are based on actual work and no one other than Nutella has actually shown any indication in engaging with this. It’s quite disheartening.

[Turnip Head]

Golden should put himself on the poll tomorrow

[Golden]

But Mac let’s be clear - you’re part of the problem not the solution. You have 300 posts yourself in that other game.

Not that I want this thread to be quite that crazy. It’s a bit too intense for my liking. But we could be achieving more here.

[Turnip Head]

You can't act like the poll mechanics haven't affected the flow of this game.

[MacDougall]

So its time for me to weigh in I guess. I've been going over everyones that's on the Vote's posts. Here is my two cents:

DrWilgy - Lurking in the shadows. Very low activity from what I've seen but most of what they have posted has not really carried much substance. I suppose the real life reason for inactivity should be considered. I'm on the ropes here. Earlier on they were pretty aggresive with some comments. One thing that stood out to me and still rings is "My Votes have gone to preventing a cowered from being Captain, I'll hold my 4th". This still resonates with me and has pushed my vote over to the bad side. I'm still curious why Wilgy would label Golden a Cowered as I Believe that is where that comment was directed. So... Yeah. And Silence for a long period from the 9th up until...?

DFaraday - Not very active. Mostly responsive to post but nothing that really stands out to me.

Marmot - No real substance to posts until somewhat recently. The vote for Mac without reason kind of through me. I would be interested to know why you threw Mac Under the bus.

Contrasting opinions from our dead confirmed scum on three players one of which is a confirmed dead townie. You can see the SQ was inclined to try to bolster a case on Wilgy here. In hindsight this post should have prevented a Wilgy lynch yesterday. You can see that he has given a very pointless and arbitrary read on Faraday but went to great lengths to provide a case on Wilgy. His comments on Marmot were fairly provocative which is perhaps a slightly decent read on him at least compared to the completely different ways he approached Wilgy and Faraday who weren't separated by all that much.

[MacDougall]

Golden you have a town read on Faraday? How do you rationalise the different ways that our dead confirmed scum appraised Wilgy vs. him in the aforementioned post?

[MacDougall]

But Mac let’s be clear - you’re part of the problem not the solution. You have 300 posts yourself in that other game.

Not that I want this thread to be quite that crazy. It’s a bit too intense for my liking. But we could be achieving more here.

Meh I swapped back in here later and it's harder to get into a game you haven't been involved in from day zero.

[novaselinenever]

In isolation I am wondering if the perceived town leaders are really trying here.

This is why I find it frustrating when both my town read on df and scum read on TH are based on actual work and no one other than Nutella has actually shown any indication in engaging with this. It’s quite disheartening.

I'm taking away your victim card

[DharmaHelper]

Anyone here a Smuggler that needs a crew? I'll pay you $150.

[Epignosis]

Who was it that lit the fire under that appalling Dr Wilgy wagon? Yes, our friend Epi with that excerpt of Dan’s post allegedly implicating Wilgy. I didn’t buy it and have been proven right in not having done so.

Here is where I discredit Glorfindel, just for fun.

I’ll confess, I’m a little conflicted about the poll as it is at present. The TH wagon itself looks kinda OK but I can’t quite fathom why friend Turnip Head is a wagon in the first place. If I was TH (Captain of a ship) and was Mafia and I knew that we’d have a potentially limited poll today (effectively 6 but it could’ve been less) I think it’d be a pretty ballsy (read idiotic) move to put myself on the poll as my team’s representative. Mind, I’m perplexed why he would do that if he were Town...?

Wilgy? OK, I’ll agree that mention of Dan’s is not a good look but on its own, I’m not sure how conclusive it is. I find the fact that Epi dropped that vote on Wilgy as he did and then promptly disappeared back into the inky void to be a trifle disconcerting.

Selecting someone from this list today is something of a conundrum...

I didn’t buy it and have been proven right in not having done so.

You say you didn't "buy" what I said about DrWilgy, but the above is the only comment you made about him in relation to that post. You said you agreed that the Sokoth mention was not good for him, but other than that, you said nothing about not "buying it." Might be the closest you've ever come to having told a lie, Glorfy. I'd love to have you on the dark side.

As far as I can tell, Glorfindel, you haven't voted for a single person to be lynched. You didn't vote Day 2. You didn't vote Day 3. I don't think you voted Day 1. Why not?

I'm going to be honest with you now: If you want to have a go at me for my vote, you need to be voting too. Calling Golden honorable means nothing to me. Saying you are a civilian means nothing to me. Helping a crew with a mission means nothing to me. None of it means anything to me if you don't vote to kill somebody.

So don't proclaim being a civilian. That doesn't help. Voting helps. Every Day. Even if it's for me.