DFS Mafia [ENDGAME]

[DharmaHelper]

Colin is not a good lynch yet. The odds of DH or RN being Mafia are much higher.

Say....what?

[DharmaHelper]

DharmaHelper has a rough, devil-may-care approach to mafia, which makes it easy for someone who hasn't played with him before to peg him as scum. This may be why Alien thought he could drop an easy scum read on DH. But he also ignores DH in the rest of his player read posts. I think DH could be town.

Very spicy.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[sprityo]

Here I got one, who is gonna look better and who worse once alien flips?

I’m not sure how much interaction I’ve seen between alien and other players outside of his questions that would indicate alignment

i know this isn't in Alien's ISO, but i actually think this may reflect poorly on sprityo & want some input on it

Alien hadn't flipped at this point, so the only people who knew what he would flip were his teammates. the way that sprityo has this post worded sort of has an implicit red flip in it; even though sprityo doesn't say that alien will flip mafia, the emphasis on alien's questions leans that way. (town Alien's questions wouldn't necessarily indicate much of anything but sincerity on Alien's behalf. there's a possibility that sprityo is referring to responses to questions tho)

MP7 noted that this came pretty shortly before alien's actual flip. could be feeling some pressure to appear involved and like he's progressing the game forward

i'm keeping in mind Jay's point about breaking up me/sprityo as teammates, but i thought i'd make a note of it anyway

So that post was in response to mac asking for more reads circa day end. I really didnt have anything for him. as indicated with my post previous to the one quoted. So youre correct in that, i didnt have anything to say and just threw something out. This was also yknow after having committed myself to the alien vote, so yes i was working under the assumption that he would flip mafia. I also addressed MP on it, i like to make pretty rainbows out of the votes on the day to day lynches and look for patterns in voting. [mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention]

[sprityo]

Jay, why should i vote DH over Robot today? Or does it really not matter?

[DharmaHelper]

Raise ur hand if ur name is Jay or Mac and you spent Day 2 scumhunting instead of reverting to your easy suspicion of an absentee player



Now Raise ur hand if you think maybe Jay or Mac or Both were forced to buss their teammate after he got completely owned by the thread and have now decided to return to the dumbest case imaginable.

[DharmaHelper]

His posts are snarky and lazy, and haven't added much to the game. Does town DH ever coast through to day 2 like this?

He doesn't play very often these days, so it's difficult to peg what he "usually" does. I wouldn't put it past him though to fart around all day in either alignment.

I think it's a bit more concerning though that he has provided this post to suggest directions of inquiry -- but he hasn't done anything himself to pursue those directions.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Jay, why should i vote DH over Robot today? Or does it really not matter?

I think Robot is the most likely mafioso in the game. I think DH is the second-most likely mafioso in the game. You review them and everyone else and decide who you believe to be the most suspicions.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Raise ur hand if ur name is Jay or Mac and you spent Day 2 scumhunting instead of reverting to your easy suspicion of an absentee player



Now Raise ur hand if you think maybe Jay or Mac or Both were forced to buss their teammate after he got completely owned by the thread and have now decided to return to the dumbest case imaginable.

You might as well just concede if this is all you're going to do.

[DharmaHelper]

Raise ur hand if ur name is Jay or Mac and you spent Day 2 scumhunting instead of reverting to your easy suspicion of an absentee player



Now Raise ur hand if you think maybe Jay or Mac or Both were forced to buss their teammate after he got completely owned by the thread and have now decided to return to the dumbest case imaginable.

You might as well just concede if this is all you're going to do.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

absentee player

[DharmaHelper]

absentee player

[DharmaHelper]

Simple truth is I just don't like playing mafia all that much anymore. Just a result of a string of incidents that took the fire out of it for me, and me not really finding anything to put it back. I'll play how I play. I don't really care beyond that.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Simple truth is I just don't like playing mafia all that much anymore. Just a result of a string of incidents that took the fire out of it for me, and me not really finding anything to put it back. I'll play how I play. I don't really care beyond that.

You certainly don't have to care. I don't blame you.

But that's not why you have two votes.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Kyle's lack of engagement in this Day 2 is making me feel like I have to do the interactive review. It's too late now, but I'll put in the work when I wake up tomorrow.

[DharmaHelper]

Simple truth is I just don't like playing mafia all that much anymore. Just a result of a string of incidents that took the fire out of it for me, and me not really finding anything to put it back. I'll play how I play. I don't really care beyond that.

You certainly don't have to care. I don't blame you.

But that's not why you have two votes.

Why do I have two votes?

You got on my jock for putting out the Quadrants thing and not following up on it, but like...so? Did you run with it? Did Mac? Did Anybody?

I dunno man, seems a little fucky to still be on me after a mafia got lynched D1 and there's all this other shit to be looking at.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Why do I have two votes?

You got on my jock for putting out the Quadrants thing and not following up on it, but like...so? Did you run with it? Did Mac? Did Anybody?

I dunno man, seems a little fucky to still be on me after a mafia got lynched D1 and there's all this other shit to be looking at.

You can be associated with the dead mafioso based upon the posts we extracted from his corpse and your own posts too. There's at least one gigantic post on the topic.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You got on my jock for putting out the Quadrants thing and not following up on it, but like...so? Did you run with it? Did Mac? Did Anybody?

Also, this question is fucking horseshit. You're pretending to be clueless. There's no way you're serious.

[DharmaHelper]

Why do I have two votes?

You got on my jock for putting out the Quadrants thing and not following up on it, but like...so? Did you run with it? Did Mac? Did Anybody?

I dunno man, seems a little fucky to still be on me after a mafia got lynched D1 and there's all this other shit to be looking at.

You can be associated with the dead mafioso based upon the posts we extracted from his corpse and your own posts too. There's at least one gigantic post on the topic.

Now I know you're fucking with me lol.

[DharmaHelper]

You got on my jock for putting out the Quadrants thing and not following up on it, but like...so? Did you run with it? Did Mac? Did Anybody?

Also, this question is fucking horseshit. You're pretending to be clueless. There's no way you're serious.

That's like...your opinion, man.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm going to stick it all right in your face. If you want to continue running your finger up and down across your lips, be my guest.

[Tangrowth]

Alright didn’t plan on being here but I guess I can spare a little bit.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]DharmaHelper[/mention]

Click here.

[DharmaHelper]

I'm going to stick it all right in your face. If you want to continue running your finger up and down across your lips, be my guest.

Does this mean you're gonna show me where the big post linking me to the dead guy is because that was my next question.

Linki thanks I'll take a look.

[Tangrowth]

If you're going to lock someone, you might as well do it big.

Damn straight.

If there's one thing I've learned the most over the past few months at Champs, it's that my biggest weakness as a player headed into the tournament, as a townie anyway, was that I doubted myself too much out of fear of being wrong and let myself be persuaded into nonsensical WIFOM arguments inside my own head that not only wasted time but caused myself to look suspicious and clutter up the thread.

No longer. I feel like I've gotten much better at just taking a stance based on gut and analysis, and not only just force myself to do so in good faith and feel good about it, but also do so all the while increasing the accuracy of my reads.

Reassessment is one thing and always can and should happen. That's also something I feel like I've gotten much better at over the last couple of years.

sculder and mully 2k18

Sculder and Mully haha I love it!

[Tangrowth]

I think my read of Luna is somewhat dependent on Robot actually being scum.

If Robot is scum, then I feel like both Alien and Robot were trying to shade her and were banking on an ML there.

why is Luna's alignment dependent on Robot's? i understand that Robot flipping red would inform the read on Luna, but is it actually dependent on Robot being scum? (i.e., would a town Robot inform the read similarly and change your view on alien potentially shading Luna there?)

Poorly worded on my part. A scum Robot flip would be informative. A town flip not so much.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]DharmaHelper[/mention]

Click here too.

[DharmaHelper]

Spoiler: show

The interactions of alien and DharmaHelper

Things alien said to/about DH

alien responded thoroughly to my DH ISO and covered a wide range of agreeing with some of it, asking about some of it, and seeming disinterested in some of it. My prevailing take here though is that alien was trying to achieve a couple things here:

1. Look authentic in his handling of my big shiny ISO of whoever, because it provided an opportunity for him to seem involved.
2. Maintain the aura of suspicion around DH that I had constructed without necessarily having to commit himself to it with the strong language that I had used.

In that regard I think it's okay for DH. alien could have worked this into a final vote if he wanted to. It's not better than okay for DH because that noncommittal approach might reflect a desire to distance from a teammate without dooming him.

Spoiler: show

DharmaHelper did you find it suspicious M Plus 7 held off for so long making the rainbow lists?

This question stemmed from my case against DH, so his faux-interest is just being sustained.

Spoiler: show

Slight Mafia
DH - Jay had some good points about him choosing only the weak point in the ISO to respond to and his read of jay being 'I don't know if you're bad' and then suddenly 'you're probably bad' reads as a fake progression to me, but I'm not sure why he'd post the way he's been posting as Mafia because theres 0 attempt to fit in as a Townie at all and I don't think he'd try to rely on a WIFOM like 'why would he do this as Mafia!' to win the game

I've used the color coding again to talk about this bit from the larger reads list. The waffle became the staple of alien's reads, and this is one example. It should be noted that despite the two-sided nature of this blurb, he has decided to stick DH in the "slight mafia" category. He could have justified "slight town" just as easily. I am still getting the impression that he wants DH to remain in the crosshairs.

Spoiler: show

COLIN TOWN
JAY TOWN
LUNA TOWN
M PLUS 7 SCUM
RUSS SCUM
SPRIT NO IDEA NOBODY'S TELLING ME THE CASE ON THEM
MAC TOWN
ROBOT TOWN
DH MAFIA
umm, give me more names

I keep forgetting to talk about this one. alien attempted to add his two cents to the GTH exercise. I have highlighted Colin and DH to cover for each of my last three reviews (he didn't mention TH).

He seemed low on names to stick with the bad tag here and DH was one of them.

~~~

Things DH said to/about alien

Spoiler: show

@DharmaHelper did you find it suspicious M Plus 7 held off for so long making the rainbow lists?

I don't know how long he held off exactly but him posting so frequently you'd think if he wanted to he could have posted that pretty list of names at any point. Not a vote-getter for me but if I was paying attention that'd be something I'd pay attention to.

DH answered alien's poke. Meh.

Spoiler: show

On the one hand my dudes:

InfectedAlien is bad and despite the Mercy Rule, should be lynched.


On the other hand, my dudes:

InfectedAlien is good, and the mafia are foregoing the Mercy Rule to fuck him out of a game.

Which is it?

This is useless. I don't care for the fact that alien could have been spared because of the mercy rule if this mindset had been more prevalent.

DH left his vote on Mac through the deadline. He was present for much of the day and didn't seem to give a shit about much while the alien case peaked and dipped, so I award no points.

~~~

Conclusion

There are some nice things to say about DH here, but they feel less inspired than my previous reviews did (given that there is always a counter-argument easily available). Overall I emerge with a shrug.

"Overall I emerge with a shrug" has got to be the most inspiring way to end a post since whatever the last thing I said was.

[Tangrowth]

@abyssum

Hey, Aby--when you reacted with what felt like alarm bells to something of mine at eod, why was that? Like what were you reacting to and how/why, bc i never did get it

i understood more of your mentality when i thought back on it, so this doesn't apply much anymore, but i'll explain it anyway: you seemed sort of...downtrodden? in a way that i don't really expect to see from you, and i didn't understand why

but i was extra confused by you questioning alien on his usage of "town feathers" because that's just the most Tsaiah-esque phrase i've ever heard

Hey town feathers is my thing! I came up with that!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

"Overall I emerge with a shrug" has got to be the most inspiring way to end a post since whatever the last thing I said was.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[DharmaHelper]

DharmaHelper definitely looks the worst to me although there's still room for a town DH universe still. GTH I think the way Alien treated DH with respect to Jay's wall reads like a teammate talking about another teammate. Otherwise their interactions are super uninspiring but could go either way.

Fuck me I'm quaking.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

DharmaHelper definitely looks the worst to me although there's still room for a town DH universe still. GTH I think the way Alien treated DH with respect to Jay's wall reads like a teammate talking about another teammate. Otherwise their interactions are super uninspiring but could go either way.

Fuck me I'm quaking.

Uninspiring interactions are bad when other people have inspiring interactions.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

DharmaHelper: "Hey your case is stupid and dumb, here, have a sarcastic remark"

*addresses zero points that matter*

[DharmaHelper]

"Overall I emerge with a shrug" has got to be the most inspiring way to end a post since whatever the last thing I said was.

Thanks for your thoughts.

When you said there were big ass posts linking me to Alien and that's why I had two votes, what I thought you meant was there were big ass posts linking me to Alien.

Little did I know what you actually showed me were two big ass posts, one that sort of clears me and the other that almost literally says "He could be alien's teammate but he could also not be, I really don't know", but MP takes 2 million paragraphs to say that.

I dunno man.

[Tangrowth]

Jay, explain to me further what you mean by this:

"I think this whole thing looks vaguely teammate-compatible, but it doesn't scream at me as a red flag. It's a lot of stuff that exists, and the fact that it's abyssum and alien seems more incidental than critical. The dialogue extended here. I don't care for the waffle read though."

Specifically with respect to the point re: incidental versus critical.

alien's biggest reads list came in the form of a huge quoted post featuring abyssum's earlier big reads list. Sandwiched between the two reads lists were alien's responses to and takes on abyssum's reads. I wanted to make note of the fact that the two of them had been glued together in this moment, that alien had used abyssum's thickest content as a springboard to generate his own thickest content. Sometimes I think that sort of thing can be deliberate: teammates working with one another to infuse their most effortful fake posts into the game, because you can always count on your mafia mate to provide that opportunity the way you want it to be provided (should it be discussed behind the scenes).

If that's what happened, then that would represent a "critical" moment tying abyssum and alien together. It would be a serious red flag.

It's also possible that abyssum just posted a reads list, and alien decided on his own that he'd use that one to propel his own reads list. That wouldn't require abyssum's cooperation, rendering the moment "incidental" instead.

If I have to guess at which of those things is closer to our reality, I would guess the incidental version. The critical version is more elaborate and requires more pieces. It's still something to think about though.

man i think i'm in love with you

Dammit aby, please say it isn't so. I THOUGHT WHAT WE HAD WAS SPECIAL

[JaggedJimmyJay]

"Overall I emerge with a shrug" has got to be the most inspiring way to end a post since whatever the last thing I said was.

Thanks for your thoughts.

When you said there were big ass posts linking me to Alien and that's why I had two votes, what I thought you meant was there were big ass posts linking me to Alien.

Little did I know what you actually showed me were two big ass posts, one that sort of clears me and the other that almost literally says "He could be alien's teammate but he could also not be, I really don't know", but MP takes 2 million paragraphs to say that.

I dunno man.

Because you don't care about anything apart from discrediting your attackers. It's weak. Get lynched.

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

Ughhh Mac's mindset makes sense but I disagree since I never like to assume people will inevitably be mislynched as a Townie because they can always bring it back, but I don't think it's necessarily alignment-indicative because I know people who favour lynches like that as Town 'they're gonna die inevitably anyway so let's kill them for info', but it is definitely scum compatible and the fact he suggested it to Jay after Jay's story makes me think 'hmm' and that in combination with my earlier points makes me inclined to lean that it's a Mafia sided thing rather than a Town thing (how's this for hedge!)

Can someone give me a run down on the sprito case since it looks like it's him vs me vs mac right now?

I have to go away again now, I'll be back in like an hour I think

(sorry in advance to Alien for the notifications and to the thread at large for the jumping around that will inevitably happen in this ISO; i do nothing sequentially because i'm the worst)

i think this sort of post from Alien has a very high chance of being Alien expressing some irritation/frustration at one of his potential mislynch targets posting in a way that looks townier. i don't think this progression is really unusual for Alien, either

scenario A (where Mac is town): he knows that Mac is posting like town would, and he feels compelled to acknowledge that towniness (because what if other people see it?) but at the same time wants to discredit and dismiss what Mac is saying. scum Alien sees town behavior and acknowledges it, at least from what little i've learned from playing with him. it's almost like the initial suspicion is easy because he can post confidently about it, but as further engagement from town comes around, that confidence is shaken and he starts feeling like he needs to give them points even when scumreading them or discrediting them

scenario B (where Mac is a partner): at a time when both Alien and Mac are wagons and in a position where a lynch is possible, Alien is trying to discredit Mac's lynch plans of a third party (Turnip Head). it's possible that, in a world where Turnip Head is town, Alien is trying to nab some credit if that lynch goes off, because he can point back to the post where he outlined the issues with that sort of lynch (though this relies on a world in which Alien is willing to get some heat on Mac in exchange for Alien's own cred). while i don't think there's a lot of coordination if this is the case, Alien may not be the type to coordinate actions out of the thread.

i don't think that Alien, when talking about Mac as a partner, feels any compulsions to acknowledge when Mac makes a towny post. i also don't think he feels the need to explain and explain about Mac's potential mindset, or why he feels the motivation to do what he's doing, or the ways that his plans can go wrong--unless Mac is actually town. please offer takes on this, especially the people here who have also played with Alien or spectated the games that he played (but anyone is welcome to weigh in).

the interesting thing here is that Alien is talking about Turnip Head (or rather Mac's proposed plan of lynching Turnip Head). this is the second time that Alien has very indirectly defended Turnip Head--the first was with Lunalee, when he used her reads post to call her suspicion on TH insincere & also question the validity of her read on him.

i think that Turnip Head could be town based on scenario A, btw; it could be that Alien is just prone to TMI and happened to TMI the same player twice in two different places. in the unlikely world where Mac/Alien are teamed, i don't think the team is Mac/Alien/Turnip/(mystery slot if there is one).

stray thought: i want to look at posts where Alien directly addresses people instead of addressing the thread or speaking about them in the third person. M Plus 7 Tsaiah RobotNerd277 when Alien was town in G9, did he make the sorts of posts where he would quote somebody and make general statements about them instead of engaging them/using second-person language mostly?

Uhhhh this is a good question. I don't think so? I'd have to check.

[Tangrowth]

he probably just TMI'd Kyle and Colin too. he didn't really do much to explain his take on the situation, he just said it feels/seems like they're town/town based on their arguing. it was done at a time when Alien started needing town allies as well. this isn't really catastrophic if Alien needs to lynch one of them later down the line either, since it's just an impressions post without much passion behind it. ("not really catastrophic" lends itself well if one of them is scum too though)

if i had to put one of them as the scum partner in that situation, it'd probably be Colin? but Colin has a couple of other good looks independent of that situation

Agree.

I also want to make it known that I love your posts today in general.

[DharmaHelper]

"Overall I emerge with a shrug" has got to be the most inspiring way to end a post since whatever the last thing I said was.

Thanks for your thoughts.

When you said there were big ass posts linking me to Alien and that's why I had two votes, what I thought you meant was there were big ass posts linking me to Alien.

Little did I know what you actually showed me were two big ass posts, one that sort of clears me and the other that almost literally says "He could be alien's teammate but he could also not be, I really don't know", but MP takes 2 million paragraphs to say that.

I dunno man.

Because you don't care about anything apart from discrediting your attackers. It's weak. Get lynched.

I guess thats a good point.

[Tangrowth]

Here I got one, who is gonna look better and who worse once alien flips?

I’m not sure how much interaction I’ve seen between alien and other players outside of his questions that would indicate alignment

i know this isn't in Alien's ISO, but i actually think this may reflect poorly on sprityo & want some input on it

Alien hadn't flipped at this point, so the only people who knew what he would flip were his teammates. the way that sprityo has this post worded sort of has an implicit red flip in it; even though sprityo doesn't say that alien will flip mafia, the emphasis on alien's questions leans that way. (town Alien's questions wouldn't necessarily indicate much of anything but sincerity on Alien's behalf. there's a possibility that sprityo is referring to responses to questions tho)

MP7 noted that this came pretty shortly before alien's actual flip. could be feeling some pressure to appear involved and like he's progressing the game forward

i'm keeping in mind Jay's point about breaking up me/sprityo as teammates, but i thought i'd make a note of it anyway

...this is a good point; it did weird me out at the time, but I haven't given it any thought since Alien flipped.

[Tangrowth]

Spoiler: show

Also not only is this an awesome thing but I am suddenly realizing it perfectly fits a musical representation of Jaybot the analytical robot just processing posts as matter straight into his brain and then his interactive analyses come out the other end.

MP, we have a music forum..... stop inflating your post count ffs

Hey, it's in OT green, you can't be mad if it's in green!

[Tangrowth]

Lol at more DH v. Jay stuff. Like we haven't had enough of that already.

(Thanks for giving me an opportunity to use orange!)

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Lol at more DH v. Jay stuff. Like we haven't had enough of that already.

(Thanks for giving me an opportunity to use orange!)

What do you think of that stuff?

[Tangrowth]

Lol at more DH v. Jay stuff. Like we haven't had enough of that already.

(Thanks for giving me an opportunity to use orange!)

What do you think of that stuff?

DH is being difficult.

That's about it.

He should be lynched probably, but Robot first at least?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Robot first at least?

As the universe currently stands, yes.

[Tangrowth]

Too many players coasting right now. Lame.

[Tangrowth]

Alright, maybe everyone just needs more cheerleading.

Let's go, you all rock! We had a scum lynch on DAY FUCKING 1! There's so much to analyze! We can win! Please help!

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Too many players coasting right now. Lame.

Agreed. So far Day 2 hasn't been half as active as Day 1. alien was a high-volume poster granted, but this is still drifting too close to the realm of complacency. It's asking for it.

[MacDougall]

People don't like the way I play Mafia evidently so I am reverting to shitposting from now on.

[Tangrowth]

I love you Mac!