Firefly, The Game [GAME OVER]

[MacDougall]

[Turnip Head]

Dharma Helper... goddamn it

[Epignosis]

Once again, the options are TH, DDL, or Golden. I am not entertaining anybody else at this stage.

[Epignosis]

And I swear, if TH is bad and gets lynched and people come for me, I will set the universe on fire.

[nutella]

this is so intense I love it

[Dragon D. Luffy]

@Spacedaisy could you please answer my question about the grenade? ,

GJ Flashkill Pod Grenades - 1 time use on another crew, (1) Random kill, (2-3) Random skill set
block, (4-5) Random vote block, (6) All items destroyed

Thank you. But my doubt is: does the die get rolled once for every player in the crew, or do you only pick a single member and then roll the die for them?

[Golden]

@Spacedaisy could you please answer my question about the grenade? ,

GJ Flashkill Pod Grenades - 1 time use on another crew, (1) Random kill, (2-3) Random skill set
block, (4-5) Random vote block, (6) All items destroyed

Thank you. But my doubt is: does the die get rolled once for every player in the crew, or do you only pick a single member and then roll the die for them?

I think the word ‘random’ implies the die is rolled to pick an event, and then if it says ‘random’ one person is chosen at random to experience the effect.

[Spacedaisy]

The die gets rolledto see what overall effect the item will have, then it is randomized who the effect will apply to.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

The die gets rolledto see what overall effect the item will have, then it is randomized who the effect will apply to.

Thanks.

Damn, you win then Golden.

TH can be mafia with Epi.

[DharmaHelper]

Mi so saucy.

[DharmaHelper]

Dharma Helper... goddamn it

100% of this could have been avoided if you made me Captain when I asked.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

He attacks TH a lot, but it's not until Day 4 that he becomes his main suspect. Day 3 he's basically mentioning other peeople while throwing jabs at TH, until someone starts a CFD on TH and he acts like a little boy who just got a surprise candy. Then he becomes more adamant about wanting TH's head, but it's not real tunneling, and we have that point I made ages ago where it seemed like the two were badmouthing each other without engaging directly.

And btw - this is not the post of someone who is engaging properly with my iso. To be fair on day three I did spend a bit of time on defence of my captaincy style, but other than that I couldn't have been more clear who I wanted out.

On day three I was very clear about TH from the very start with stuff like this:

Turnip Head
Dr Wilgy
Dharmaplayer
Enrique
Insertnamehere
Glorfindel

Leaving Lapluie out of this beautiful rainbow list. I wouldn't lynch there though since she's getting replaced.

My rainbow list for this poll is literally the exact inverse of this.

I had already spent all day two after TH and failed. Also, someone did not just 'start a cfd on TH and I jumped on'.

Someone else (Enrique, as it happened) said he'd vote with me. He was the first person to say it. I went on. This was at least a full 24 hours before the lynch, not a CFD at all. It was just a glimmer of hope for me that maybe someone would listen.

And no-one else really did.

So I ended up voting for Wilgy the next day - but in my Wilgy vote post I still spent the time beseeching people to read TH before day's end in case there was any shot I could get the vote back to TH. And I kept pushing and pushing.

And then the dam broke and people started going that way and yes, I was like a kid in a candy store at that moment because it felt like people were finally listening. And then in the end it didn't happen. But I fucking damn well wanted it to.

And if anyone can't read the honesty in exchanges like this, I don't know what more I can say:

Yo Dharma wanna put our shit on pause and take out Goldenboy?

Yo TH wanna recruit the people I’ve scumread and use them as allies just because it’s an easy way to take out a threat to you?

I’m not on the poll.

You cannot read day three and come out with any other conclusion but one of these two:

1) I was a townie who genuinely wanted TH dead; or
2) It was an extremely hard bus.

This analysis that he was not my main suspect before day 4 isn't even close to the truth.

Never said I was engaging properly. I don't have fun in doing this, so I did it to the point I felt unimpressed about your effort to lynch TH and decided to point it out.

My problem is that, while you have suspected TH all game, before day 4 you haven't made a huge effort engaging him, pushing for him, voting for him. You do when other people propose it. That's a great way to bus, because you can say you have attacked him all game, which you did, but not make the effort to get it done. It's easy to say he is your big suspect and vote for someone else, or not vote at all and wait to be the second on his wagon. Or propose a cfd on nutella when he's finally getting lynched. That stuff. Your actions don't mind your rainbow lists.

In that sense Epi has a point, because while he did spend way fewer words than you pushing the members of mafia, he was there when we needed someone to get them lynched.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

DDL & TH:

What do I have to believe if I believe that you are bad?

That TH is bad.

Because I seriously think me and Golden changing the vote to Enrique at the same time in the last 30 seconds of the day would be really crazy.

Other than that, I dunno, my voting record has been garbage this game, I admit.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

As for your point about why you don’t bus. I agree entirely. That’s why I only do it when the value I get outweighs the value I lose. My approach to bussing is well overstated.

You bussed three consecutive teammates in Economics Mafia, and you made sure you were one of the first few people in all wagons.

You do bus.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

You are so good at bussing you could write a book about it. And I'd buy it. You basically taught me how to bus.

Not because you outright vote for teammates as soon as the day starts, but you have the sense of timing to know when it's the best time to do it, and how to make it look legit.

[DharmaHelper]

Hey yall 'member that time DDL shit a house of bricks because his partner SQ got lynched lol

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Ok why did it take me so long to notice I have two votes on me.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Inb4 the INH indie thing is a decoy and we are about to be trolled hard.

[Golden]

You are so good at bussing you could write a book about it. And I'd buy it. You basically taught me how to bus.

Not because you outright vote for teammates as soon as the day starts, but you have the sense of timing to know when it's the best time to do it, and how to make it look legit.

This is my exact point.

And no, I didn’t bus three, I bussed two, and I did it because they were going down anyway and I do have a great sense of timing and how to make it legit.

I don’t create the wagon out of nothing an push it for days though. You should go look back at economics to see the difference.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

There is a difference in how it's done, but you don't necessarily have to repeat same method every time.

The method I am describing, assuming I am right, is also pretty good.

[Golden]

He attacks TH a lot, but it's not until Day 4 that he becomes his main suspect. Day 3 he's basically mentioning other peeople while throwing jabs at TH, until someone starts a CFD on TH and he acts like a little boy who just got a surprise candy. Then he becomes more adamant about wanting TH's head, but it's not real tunneling, and we have that point I made ages ago where it seemed like the two were badmouthing each other without engaging directly.

And btw - this is not the post of someone who is engaging properly with my iso. To be fair on day three I did spend a bit of time on defence of my captaincy style, but other than that I couldn't have been more clear who I wanted out.

On day three I was very clear about TH from the very start with stuff like this:

Turnip Head
Dr Wilgy
Dharmaplayer
Enrique
Insertnamehere
Glorfindel

Leaving Lapluie out of this beautiful rainbow list. I wouldn't lynch there though since she's getting replaced.

My rainbow list for this poll is literally the exact inverse of this.

I had already spent all day two after TH and failed. Also, someone did not just 'start a cfd on TH and I jumped on'.

Someone else (Enrique, as it happened) said he'd vote with me. He was the first person to say it. I went on. This was at least a full 24 hours before the lynch, not a CFD at all. It was just a glimmer of hope for me that maybe someone would listen.

And no-one else really did.

So I ended up voting for Wilgy the next day - but in my Wilgy vote post I still spent the time beseeching people to read TH before day's end in case there was any shot I could get the vote back to TH. And I kept pushing and pushing.

And then the dam broke and people started going that way and yes, I was like a kid in a candy store at that moment because it felt like people were finally listening. And then in the end it didn't happen. But I fucking damn well wanted it to.

And if anyone can't read the honesty in exchanges like this, I don't know what more I can say:

Yo Dharma wanna put our shit on pause and take out Goldenboy?

Yo TH wanna recruit the people I’ve scumread and use them as allies just because it’s an easy way to take out a threat to you?

I’m not on the poll.

You cannot read day three and come out with any other conclusion but one of these two:

1) I was a townie who genuinely wanted TH dead; or
2) It was an extremely hard bus.

This analysis that he was not my main suspect before day 4 isn't even close to the truth.

Never said I was engaging properly. I don't have fun in doing this, so I did it to the point I felt unimpressed about your effort to lynch TH and decided to point it out.

My problem is that, while you have suspected TH all game, before day 4 you haven't made a huge effort engaging him, pushing for him, voting for him. You do when other people propose it. That's a great way to bus, because you can say you have attacked him all game, which you did, but not make the effort to get it done. It's easy to say he is your big suspect and vote for someone else, or not vote at all and wait to be the second on his wagon. Or propose a cfd on nutella when he's finally getting lynched. That stuff. Your actions don't mind your rainbow lists.

In that sense Epi has a point, because while he did spend way fewer words than you pushing the members of mafia, he was there when we needed someone to get them lynched.

Ok but this just isn’t true. I pushed trying to lynch TH hard. Not to the exclusion of anything else, but your assessment is just flat out wrong.

You take stuff I did out of context. For instance, the cfd nutella was NOT as I was about to get him lynched, it was much earlier when the day was shaping up as being between you and Enrique and based directly on interactions between Nutella and TH.

To say that I ‘didn’t make the effort to get it done’ - well, look, this isn’t a direct criticism of you, but this is exactly why I have to play less mafia. I put so much effort into getting it done that I was posting about TH at work while I didn’t have time to. I could not get it done! His Yun Qui crew wouldn’t begin to engage it even entertain the possibility. You’re trying to say I couldn’t get it done as though the sensible thing to do as a civilian is sit by yourself on the same person alone and do nothing else but talk about him.

No, I went looking for teammates and evidence.

I’d just like to point out my record here. I was there on day two but no one else was with me. I was there on day three and stayed there until the end. I was there on day four but could get zero traction despite the fact I had some the day before, so picked a place that mattered. And when I jumped off at the end of day 5 I hit an actual baddie.

Your concept of what happened is entirely false... I didn’t back off TH, I didn’t hit him softly, I didn’t pussyfoot around him. I called him out constantly from days zero through five and if there was any chance where it looked like I was getting any traction I took it. And even when I was getting zero traction I was still pleading with other influencers, like Mac and nutella, to actually go read TH and try and see him through my eyes.

There is no narrative in which this was anything less than full hearted and you can’t see that unless you’re choosing to when reading my iso.

[Golden]

There is a difference in how it's done, but you don't necessarily have to repeat same method every time.

The method I am describing, assuming I am right, is also pretty good.

The method you’re describing isn’t present in the game.

[Epignosis]

The die gets rolledto see what overall effect the item will have, then it is randomized who the effect will apply to.

Thanks.

Damn, you win then Golden.

TH can be mafia with Epi.

You're bad.

I spent all my money on the lie detector. It was there, it cost a million dollars, and I hadn't bought anything all game. The grenade also cost a fortune, as I recall.

And I wouldn't fucking toss it on my own ship, you ninny.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Alright Golden time out.

Before this gets personal, let me tell you I do acknoledge your effort in winning this game. I'm just questioning whether that effort is aimed at making TH get lynched, or if it's aimed at looking like you wanted to lynch TH.

I'm not denying the effort you have made in playing this game, but your intentions.

Sorry.

[Epignosis]

DDL & TH:

What do I have to believe if I believe that you are bad?

That TH is bad.

You don't fucking say.

[Epignosis]

Someone correct me if I am wrong:

The two people not interacting much this Day are TH and DDL.

[Epignosis]

By interacting, I mean "with each other."

[Dragon D. Luffy]

The die gets rolledto see what overall effect the item will have, then it is randomized who the effect will apply to.

Thanks.

Damn, you win then Golden.

TH can be mafia with Epi.

You're bad.

I spent all my money on the lie detector. It was there, it cost a million dollars, and I hadn't bought anything all game. The grenade also cost a fortune, as I recall.

And I wouldn't fucking toss it on my own ship, you ninny.

As if DF or Enrique couldn't have bought it with their money. It doesn't matter who did, I'm analysing what the faction did. Chances are it was really DF/Enrique anyway.

If there are two baddies in your faction and three civs, it had 7% chance of killing a baddie, and 10% chance of killing a civ.

If there is one baddie, it had 3% chance of killing a baddie and 13% chance of killing a civ.

If there are no baddies in the yunqui... that scenario doesn't exist, because I'm a civ and Golden/DH aren't wolf/wolf. So somebody threw a grenade into their own ship.

Now the question is, what odds would mafia assume? Assuming they calculated the odds, ofc.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

By interacting, I mean "with each other."

You are right.

I don't want to read TH's iso. It's 9 pages of memes. It ain't worth it. And he doesn't say anything replying too because it's more memes.

[DharmaHelper]

Hey yall 'member that time DDL shit a whole house of bricks when SQ got lynched that was fun huh.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

worth replying to*

[Golden]

Alright Golden time out.

Before this gets personal, let me tell you I do acknoledge your effort in winning this game. I'm just questioning whether that effort is aimed at making TH get lynched, or if it's aimed at looking like you wanted to lynch TH.

I'm not denying the effort you have made in playing this game, but your intentions.

Sorry.

And if you read my iso properly, you cannot in good conscience reach your conclusions about that. And I can’t fucking iso myself before day end on my phone to prove it to you. But I would if I could.

I pointed out very carefully how aspects of your narrative that allows you to paint my approach to TH that way rely on things like saying I ‘get on a cfd’ when it’s actually the result of me pleading people to listen.

You have no idea how impossible it was for me to get traction. I worked fucking hard to that end and you pull a couple of quotes and say it’s evidence of the opposite. It’s not. They’re taken out of context from moments where despite me pushing for TH I am not getting traction.

Stop tunnelling and answer this question.

You think x is bad. Everyone disagrees. You fight and get nowhere. Do you

A) continue fighting and spend all your effort on that one thing; or
B) use your theory of the game to find who is stopping you from gaining traction, who is overtly or subtly defending it helping your suspect etc.

Because you are saying that B is sign that there’s no intent but at all times I was very open about exactly what I was seeing. The intent is there for the world.

[DharmaHelper]

Anyway gonna be real fun when TH Flips bad and I get NKed.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Alright Golden time out.

Before this gets personal, let me tell you I do acknoledge your effort in winning this game. I'm just questioning whether that effort is aimed at making TH get lynched, or if it's aimed at looking like you wanted to lynch TH.

I'm not denying the effort you have made in playing this game, but your intentions.

Sorry.

And if you read my iso properly, you cannot in good conscience reach your conclusions about that. And I can’t fucking iso myself before day end on my phone to prove it to you. But I would if I could.

I pointed out very carefully how aspects of your narrative that allows you to paint my approach to TH that way rely on things like saying I ‘get on a cfd’ when it’s actually the result of me pleading people to listen.

You have no idea how impossible it was for me to get traction. I worked fucking hard to that end and you pull a couple of quotes and say it’s evidence of the opposite. It’s not. They’re taken out of context from moments where despite me pushing for TH I am not getting traction.

Stop tunnelling and answer this question.

You think x is bad. Everyone disagrees. You fight and get nowhere. Do you

A) continue fighting and spend all your effort on that one thing; or
B) use your theory of the game to find who is stopping you from gaining traction, who is overtly or subtly defending it helping your suspect etc.

Because you are saying that B is sign that there’s no intent but at all times I was very open about exactly what I was seeing. The intent is there for the world.

I don't know.

I'm saying it's plausible. I tried to get Epi lynched yesterday and I hit a wall. Nobody bought it. We ended up with a poll that had 1 vote in each person. Perfect for a mafia win.

So I decided to stop being stubborn and ISO you, then I ISO'd you and found that it's plausible for you to be bussing TH. Not confirmed, but plausible.

I'm trying to work with other people. TH only replies with memes, DH only replies with snark, and Epi only replies with arrogance. You are the only player here I can talk to. But this means I have to bend to some of them otherwise I'll end up throwing my vote on a lone wagon while you guys lynch me or whatever.

Unfortunately I can't win the game alone, because half of the possible pairings have my name on it. So I have to cooperate with a group that somehow has you as the 4th most arrogant member.

I'll look at ISOs and see what I can find.

[Golden]

The die gets rolledto see what overall effect the item will have, then it is randomized who the effect will apply to.

Thanks.

Damn, you win then Golden.

TH can be mafia with Epi.

This isn’t about winning an argument about a grenade. It’s about being accurate as much as possible in reaching any assumptions.

[Epignosis]

Anyway gonna be real fun when TH Flips bad and I get NKed.

When that happens, everybody knows I was truthful. So win.

[Golden]

I don’t gave an issue with you finding it plausible provided you find it plausible for what it actually is. Does that make sense?

Like - if you believe I’d do a hard bus, that’s one thing. But if you think it’s there because you’re missing the full narrative, that’s what it’s my job to address.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

The die gets rolledto see what overall effect the item will have, then it is randomized who the effect will apply to.

Thanks.

Damn, you win then Golden.

TH can be mafia with Epi.

This isn’t about winning an argument about a grenade. It’s about being accurate as much as possible in reaching any assumptions.

The greande means EVERYTHING.

If TH can't be bad with Epi, then I have to assume one of you or Epi decided to break your bussing meta for the first time in 4 years.

And I am here, being told by both of you that it's not possible.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Fact 1: Epi doesn't hard bus.

Fact 2: Golden doesn't hard bus.

Fact 3: One of the statements above is not true.

This is where I am right now.

[Golden]

Lol ‘somehow has you as the fourth most arrogant’

Well my arrogance is an act. I learn a lot from how people choose to interact with me, and getting reactions is meaningful.

[Golden]

Fact 1: Epi doesn't hard bus.

Fact 2: Golden doesn't hard bus.

Fact 3: One of the statements above is not true.

This is where I am right now.

Epi says he doesn’t bus at all.

Now... which of epis bussing would you describe as a hard bus? Enrique?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

When that happens, everybody knows I was truthful. So win.

This is the most Epignosis post I've read all year.

[DharmaHelper]

I know Epi didn't buy the lie detector because I did.

[DharmaHelper]

Epi: I have a gun and I'm gonna shoot teh bad manz

Epi: I have a lie detector and DH is a civ

[Golden]

I know Epi didn't buy the lie detector because I did.

[DharmaHelper]

Neat how Epi claimed to have lie detected literally the least suspicious person left alive tho

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Ok let's do a JJJ:

What did Epignosis do to lynch:

Sokoth:

- nothing

Enrique:

- Started accusing him on Day 4
- Again on Day 5
- Early vote on him.
- Ushers people into voting for Enrique when they don't follow him immediately.

DF:

- Pointed out his relation with Sokoth the day after he was lynched.
- Again on day 4. Pushed it on multiple posts. Asked people to talk about it. Voted for him when the other popular options were Marmot and TH.
- Keeps pushing on day 5.
- Some arguing for it in the crew thread, apparently. Unfortunately we can't see it.
- Voted for him when the time came during day 6.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Epi: I have a gun and I'm gonna shoot teh bad manz

Epi: I have a lie detector and DH is a civ

Either shit, or leave the toilet seat.

[DharmaHelper]

Epi: I have a gun and I'm gonna shoot teh bad manz

Epi: I have a lie detector and DH is a civ

Either shit, or leave the toilet seat.

I know TH is bad, so there was no point in lie detecting him, but I was holding on to the sumbitch lie detector all day hoping someone would fuck up and they did.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

So you are saying Epi is lying then.

Why do we not lynch him? For all you believe TH is bad this is actual proof of Epi.