Hogwarts Mafia - END

[DharmaHelper]

Brb cleaning and catching up.

ISO Links yet?

[ColinIsCool]

I think at least some of the people in the Epi-juliets debate are bad because I refuse to believe all the pearl-clutching about is sincere

[speedchuck]

what about me, owner? Give DH a break and flag me for a bit.

You knowing the intricacies of the Dark Arts stuff and sharing it could be an act to try to buy townie points. I remember reading the stuff about it but not nearly picking up enough about it to understand it all. Basically, if someone had or possessed Dark Arts abilities this game, they would probably read up on it or make sure they understood their abilities.

Technically, what you said is some form of mechanical-talk or a retelling of information, in which some of it is free to us. But it doesn't necessarily solve us the game or anything.

It's potenitally the kind of post meant to look like a person is being useful, but in reality, they aren't truly really adding to the thread.

I know about the Deathly Hallows. I haven't explained anything about the Dark Arts to anyone.
Though I would if they asked, even if it required looking it up myself. That's a consistent thing I do, regardless of alignment.

[speedchuck]

Me: *Talks to speedy*
Speedy: *is frozen or typing a freakishly long post*...or idk
Me: What? He wanted me to talk to him. Is that a bad thing? Hmmm

Oh, and I went to bed like immediately.

[ColinIsCool]

Has Nova shown up yet? If not, my vote is going there.

[ColinIsCool]

I'm going to have essentially zero time until Tuesday night or Wednesday. While I'm not here y'all best find excuses to do work and not excuses to do fuck all. Epi's recent grumbles are valid.

[VOTE: Quin] aubergine, because he said some shit I didn't like earlier. He provided a token response to Epi's dig at juliets which just looked like "this is where I am supposed to interject with this here comment" instead of "this is a problem and I want to address it".

This is the post in question:

juliets and I are not teammates.

There. Go. Find bad guys.

so you know you're on different teams

I don't know about anyone else, but I wouldn't have read anything at all into Quin saying that, and the fact that Jay did is a little weird.

Agree strongly with Luna here

[speedchuck]

Epi and Owner are town.

Y THO

[Lunalee]

I feel different than I did in the game you scum read me, but you scum read me in this game as well.

Yay!! You actually understood me. That is correct.

Yes, it might be weird to some, but I guess I'm waiting for you to do something to prove me wrong. I can't explain what that is, but I'll know it when I see it...if it even happens though, which it might not.

Pretty sure Owner is town.

[speedchuck]

Specifically why is Owner town? And how does that connect with Epi at all?

[ColinIsCool]

My comment was that we are not mafia partners because I like to discuss things with my mafia teammates, and I "spoiled" something for juliets (even though I PUT THE DAMN THING IN SPOILER TAGS), so we are not bad together in BTSC.

This logic seems unsound. Do you mean that you pre-discuss everything you say in the thread with your teammates when you're bad?

Like this right here. If civs weren’t capable of “unsound logic” then we’d never lose a game. Pedantic.

[Owner of a Lonely Heart]

I've had btsc with epi and juliets before, that was definitely a conversation that would have been had in btsc instead of the thread. That's why epi pointed it out.

@Owner of a Lonely Heart if you suspect DH I suggest giving him a lil rope to hang himself with instead of attacking his every move. Mafia is more like chess and less like tag imo

I would say I play like chess but think like go.

[Owner of a Lonely Heart]

I know about the Deathly Hallows. I haven't explained anything about the Dark Arts to anyone.
Though I would if they asked, even if it required looking it up myself. That's a consistent thing I do, regardless of alignment.

So that's a null tell then, *puts speedy in null pile* hmm

[speedchuck]

I've had btsc with epi and juliets before, that was definitely a conversation that would have been had in btsc instead of the thread. That's why epi pointed it out.

@Owner of a Lonely Heart if you suspect DH I suggest giving him a lil rope to hang himself with instead of attacking his every move. Mafia is more like chess and less like tag imo

I would say I play like chess but think like go.

I'm more of a Go-Soccer player myself.

[ColinIsCool]

This one too:

My comment was that we are not mafia partners because I like to discuss things with my mafia teammates, and I "spoiled" something for juliets (even though I PUT THE DAMN THING IN SPOILER TAGS), so we are not bad together in BTSC.

This logic seems unsound. Do you mean that you pre-discuss everything you say in the thread with your teammates when you're bad?

There isn't any logic to it. I've been bad with juliets before, and juliets loves chat (see: discord). We would have been talking this stuff up, and juliets asks questions about things even when bad.

So my point is this:

juliets and I are not bad teammates together.

Use that. Work with it. Bye.

....I don't understand. Why would your question about when the spoilery thing happened in the series have come up in btsc with juliets rather than in the thread HP talk? Why are you drawing a connection to juliets before there was one?

[Owner of a Lonely Heart]

Me: *Talks to speedy*
Speedy: *is frozen or typing a freakishly long post*...or idk
Me: What? He wanted me to talk to him. Is that a bad thing? Hmmm

Oh, and I went to bed like immediately.

That's kind of great lols.

[ColinIsCool]

I got a strong town tone-read from this post of Owner’s:

what about me, owner? Give DH a break and flag me for a bit.

You knowing the intricacies of the Dark Arts stuff and sharing it could be an act to try to buy townie points. I remember reading the stuff about it but not nearly picking up enough about it to understand it all. Basically, if someone had or possessed Dark Arts abilities this game, they would probably read up on it or make sure they understood their abilities.

Technically, what you said is some form of mechanical-talk or a retelling of information, in which some of it is free to us. But it doesn't necessarily solve us the game or anything.

It's potenitally the kind of post meant to look like a person is being useful, but in reality, they aren't truly really adding to the thread.

Epi is town because he is.

[ColinIsCool]

Maybe I’ll vote Jay. Get some nice wagons going, see what’s what.

[Long Con]

My comment was that we are not mafia partners because I like to discuss things with my mafia teammates, and I "spoiled" something for juliets (even though I PUT THE DAMN THING IN SPOILER TAGS), so we are not bad together in BTSC.

This logic seems unsound. Do you mean that you pre-discuss everything you say in the thread with your teammates when you're bad?

Like this right here. If civs weren’t capable of “unsound logic” then we’d never lose a game. Pedantic.

Ok, but you're putting your own extra ideas into this and implying that they're mine. My post said "I don't understand, Epi can you clarify?", not "Looks like bad logic and therefore a bad alignment."

[speedchuck]

I think it's nearly impossible that Epi and Juliets are teammates at this point. Even if the spoiler wasn't a tell, Epi wouldn't draw this much attention to the pairing. The observation is not a townclear for either of them, and probably does more harm than good if they are scum together. Why would the teammates do it in the first place?

Further, I don't think looking at yourself and considering anti-alignment with someone else is a thought process that comes naturally to scum. So I have a tentative townread on Epi.

[Turnip Head]

The epi-juliets horse has been thoroughly Beaten. Next

[ColinIsCool]

My comment was that we are not mafia partners because I like to discuss things with my mafia teammates, and I "spoiled" something for juliets (even though I PUT THE DAMN THING IN SPOILER TAGS), so we are not bad together in BTSC.

This logic seems unsound. Do you mean that you pre-discuss everything you say in the thread with your teammates when you're bad?

Like this right here. If civs weren’t capable of “unsound logic” then we’d never lose a game. Pedantic.

Ok, but you're putting your own extra ideas into this and implying that they're mine. My post said "I don't understand, Epi can you clarify?", not "Looks like bad logic and therefore a bad alignment."

Fair enough but I don’t really get why this all needed so much clarification and hemming and hawwing in the first place. It feels like the kind of thing (bad) people latch onto because they have nothing real to question.

[poutanko]

No one is looking for me

[DharmaHelper]

I don't understand why I'm engaging in this conversation.

I think I understand. You are concerned about having suspicion against you this early, so you're focusing on it more than is necessary. Why so concerned?

I'm not concerned is the thing. I engaged with it because of Firefly, and because I've got a particular mafia history that I'd not care to repeat RE: interactions with certain players, certain perceptions, etc.

[poutanko]

[mention]Soneji[/mention] you're WPK, ay?

[DharmaHelper]

Yeah I've gotta be real with yall unless somebody outright fucks up and slips or somebody builds a damn good case, I'll probably default to a no-show as well.

The funny thing with this game is we might get some magnificent ties. Because if you're on a townie lynch that goes through, your house looses 2 points. So especially on day 1 if I don't have a good scum read, I would rather be a single vote on someone who's not going to die.

Oh good someone already fucked up. Thanks Luna :P

This looks juicy. Explain?

Luna is focused more on the House Cup mechanic, like in Firefly with TH and everyone who was so focused on Yun Qui being the best ship that they let themselves lose the game.

Also, how would she know her options are "Town lynch" or "put a random single vote on someone who isn't going to die".

Weak ping but a ping.

[ColinIsCool]

Okay, but Yun Qui was the best ship.

[DharmaHelper]

Stream of Consciousness as I catch up before Grub Time:

I took Epi's original "juliets and I are not on a team together" or w/e he said as the usual Epignosis brand of military grade Who-Gives-A-Shit. I didn't prescribe any meaning or weight to it because having played with Epi for years now, he does that shit almost every game, all the time. I don't read it as alignment indicative for him because it's not alignment indicative. HIs explanation of "Well you see if we were baddies together, I would have politely asked Juliets if it was alright to spoil the Half Blood Prince for her and she would have agreed to be fake mad in the thread" or whatever conspiracy, *that* tickled my nose hairs but again I'm not gonna call it this early because, well because of two things:

1. Juliets isn't a fake person. I've known her longer than I've known Epi and probably longer than I've known any of you guys at this point. I don't see her going "Hey yeah great idea lets stage this whole elaborate thing and fuck around D1"

2. Epignosis isn't all that concerned with much of anyone or anything most of the time in games that I play with him. He just kinda doesn't care, and does what he wants. He makes odd and definitive statements like that and the "Go, Discuss. Bye." stuff all the time. Its his brand, not his tell.

---

The chatter around it trying to make a mountain into a molehill fucks me right up. i'm on page 6 and a lot of it occurred prior to page 6 so I'll go back and revisit that but yall need to chill. Dialing in on a weaksauce suspicion like that could be baddies looking for an easy out, or looking to stoke some flames early. Eep.

Just got to the post where Nutella quoted Epi criticizing Jay for agreeing with himself. Jay, the guy who unironically said "I think we've made the best decision I could come up with, which is all we can ask for in any lynch".

I see Mac is carrying his ShitPost persona. That'll be fun.

Did Owner slip when she conflated Dark Arts and Deathly Hallows mechanics?

[speedchuck]

Did Owner slip when she conflated Dark Arts and Deathly Hallows mechanics?

I don't know how that would be a slip. They're two completely different things.

... unless you meant townslip.

[DharmaHelper]

Did Owner slip when she conflated Dark Arts and Deathly Hallows mechanics?

I don't know how that would be a slip. They're two completely different things.

... unless you meant townslip.

No I mean did she scumslip. They're two completely different things. One of them you were talking about, the other one you weren't.

[speedchuck]

Did Owner slip when she conflated Dark Arts and Deathly Hallows mechanics?

I don't know how that would be a slip. They're two completely different things.

... unless you meant townslip.

No I mean did she scumslip. They're two completely different things. One of them you were talking about, the other one you weren't.

=.=

Yeah I don't get it.

[DharmaHelper]

Did Owner slip when she conflated Dark Arts and Deathly Hallows mechanics?

I don't know how that would be a slip. They're two completely different things.

... unless you meant townslip.

No I mean did she scumslip. They're two completely different things. One of them you were talking about, the other one you weren't.

=.=

Yeah I don't get it.

Ok I'll walk you though it, because I love you.

Here you explain the Deathly Hallows mechanic. Which, since they're all locked behind secrets, the basic gist is "You get one if you kill the guys that have them or if you're the last vote on the guys that have one"

Here Owner says "Dark Arts" and not "Deathly Hallows". Her exact quote will be helpful in understanding my thought process so here:

what about me, owner? Give DH a break and flag me for a bit.

You knowing the intricacies of the Dark Arts stuff and sharing it could be an act to try to buy townie points. I remember reading the stuff about it but not nearly picking up enough about it to understand it all. Basically, if someone had or possessed Dark Arts abilities this game, they would probably read up on it or make sure they understood their abilities.

Technically, what you said is some form of mechanical-talk or a retelling of information, in which some of it is free to us. But it doesn't necessarily solve us the game or anything.

It's potenitally the kind of post meant to look like a person is being useful, but in reality, they aren't truly really adding to the thread.

"The intricacies of" - What's intricate about [SECRET] and "Keep what you kill"
"The Dark Arts Stuff" - if you've got Dark Arts on the mind and someone says Deathly Hallows, you might confuse the two. Freudian Slippage.
"I remember reading the stuff about it but not nearly picking up enough...." - [Secrets] and "Keep what you kill" doesn't strike me as hard to retain.

IDK thinking out loud, the best indicator of an actual slip here is conflating "Dark Arts" with "Deathly Hallows" because she had "Dark Arts" on the mind.

[Quin]

Less than zero interest in lynching Jay...

This seems to be a recurring theme with you. Why?

I’m not sure what you mean by this remark, Quin? My personal view is that Jay is a fellow of superior intellect and capable of analysis far beyond that of mere mortals. On that basis, if he’s Town, I’d much prefer him on our side. If by some fluke he’s bad, he’ll reveal himself later down the track. I think he’s far more useful to us alive.

If you were by some chance referring to my last game here with Golden, I’ll confess - I do so wish he was playing this game. It would make my decision here infinitely easier.

Sure. On that same basis, if he's bad, I'd much prefer him dead. How do you think he'll reveal himself? Do you have any scum-3J tells to share?

I think there's a recurring theme when you play mafia where you prefer not to lynch the people you get along well with. That's normal, I'm not trying to tell you off or anything. But at the same time I think you need to be more mindful that we only get so much time in a game and we can't spend it protecting the people we like.

Or maybe I'm completely wrong about you.

Putting his usefulness if he's a civilian aside, do you actually think he is a civilian?

[Quin]

Did Owner slip when she conflated Dark Arts and Deathly Hallows mechanics?

I don't know how that would be a slip. They're two completely different things.

... unless you meant townslip.

No I mean did she scumslip. They're two completely different things. One of them you were talking about, the other one you weren't.

=.=

Yeah I don't get it.

Ok I'll walk you though it, because I love you.

Here you explain the Deathly Hallows mechanic. Which, since they're all locked behind secrets, the basic gist is "You get one if you kill the guys that have them or if you're the last vote on the guys that have one"

Here Owner says "Dark Arts" and not "Deathly Hallows". Her exact quote will be helpful in understanding my thought process so here:

what about me, owner? Give DH a break and flag me for a bit.

You knowing the intricacies of the Dark Arts stuff and sharing it could be an act to try to buy townie points. I remember reading the stuff about it but not nearly picking up enough about it to understand it all. Basically, if someone had or possessed Dark Arts abilities this game, they would probably read up on it or make sure they understood their abilities.

Technically, what you said is some form of mechanical-talk or a retelling of information, in which some of it is free to us. But it doesn't necessarily solve us the game or anything.

It's potenitally the kind of post meant to look like a person is being useful, but in reality, they aren't truly really adding to the thread.

"The intricacies of" - What's intricate about [SECRET] and "Keep what you kill"
"The Dark Arts Stuff" - if you've got Dark Arts on the mind and someone says Deathly Hallows, you might confuse the two. Freudian Slippage.
"I remember reading the stuff about it but not nearly picking up enough...." - [Secrets] and "Keep what you kill" doesn't strike me as hard to retain.

IDK thinking out loud, the best indicator of an actual slip here is conflating "Dark Arts" with "Deathly Hallows" because she had "Dark Arts" on the mind.

I am not very smart but could it also be the other way around?

[DharmaHelper]

"Other way around" meaning what?

[speedchuck]

Ok I'll walk you though it, because I love you.

IDK thinking out loud, the best indicator of an actual slip here is conflating "Dark Arts" with "Deathly Hallows" because she had "Dark Arts" on the mind.

. . . maybe. I was thinking of the the opposite way. If Owner didn't read through all the rules, it's not surprising that Deathly Hallows and Dark Arts could get mixed together. Death and Dark start with the same letter and both sound evil.

I was taking the unfamiliarity the opposite way, while you were taking the Fruedian side of it.

I see your side now, but I don't think I can make that conclusion.

linki: yo this

[Quin]

Having Deathly Hallows on the brain and reading "Dark Arts."

In other words, maybe she's got a Hallow.

[DharmaHelper]

Ok I'll walk you though it, because I love you.

IDK thinking out loud, the best indicator of an actual slip here is conflating "Dark Arts" with "Deathly Hallows" because she had "Dark Arts" on the mind.

. . . maybe. I was thinking of the the opposite way. If Owner didn't read through all the rules, it's not surprising that Deathly Hallows and Dark Arts could get mixed together. Death and Dark start with the same letter and both sound evil.

I was taking the unfamiliarity the opposite way, while you were taking the Fruedian side of it.

I see your side now, but I don't think I can make that conclusion.

linki: yo this

Sure.

[DharmaHelper]

Having Deathly Hallows on the brain and reading "Dark Arts."

In other words, maybe she's got a Hallow.

OK but Speed didn't say "Dark Arts"

if she had a Hallow she'd have "Deathly Hallows" well within her vocabulary.

[DharmaHelper]

Very busy day for me with Mafia and other things, so I'm gonna go eat and then maybe do some ISO digging, form some thoughts on everybody, see whats up.

[Turnip Head]

I could get behind the Freudian slip angle, especially since speedchuck asked her to comment on him so she may have been off guard when responding.

[Owner of a Lonely Heart]

Did Owner slip when she conflated Dark Arts and Deathly Hallows mechanics?

I don't know how that would be a slip. They're two completely different things.

... unless you meant townslip.

No I mean did she scumslip. They're two completely different things. One of them you were talking about, the other one you weren't.

=.=

Yeah I don't get it.

Ok I'll walk you though it, because I love you.

Here you explain the Deathly Hallows mechanic. Which, since they're all locked behind secrets, the basic gist is "You get one if you kill the guys that have them or if you're the last vote on the guys that have one"

Here Owner says "Dark Arts" and not "Deathly Hallows". Her exact quote will be helpful in understanding my thought process so here:

what about me, owner? Give DH a break and flag me for a bit.

You knowing the intricacies of the Dark Arts stuff and sharing it could be an act to try to buy townie points. I remember reading the stuff about it but not nearly picking up enough about it to understand it all. Basically, if someone had or possessed Dark Arts abilities this game, they would probably read up on it or make sure they understood their abilities.

Technically, what you said is some form of mechanical-talk or a retelling of information, in which some of it is free to us. But it doesn't necessarily solve us the game or anything.

It's potenitally the kind of post meant to look like a person is being useful, but in reality, they aren't truly really adding to the thread.

"The intricacies of" - What's intricate about [SECRET] and "Keep what you kill"
"The Dark Arts Stuff" - if you've got Dark Arts on the mind and someone says Deathly Hallows, you might confuse the two. Freudian Slippage.
"I remember reading the stuff about it but not nearly picking up enough...." - [Secrets] and "Keep what you kill" doesn't strike me as hard to retain.

IDK thinking out loud, the best indicator of an actual slip here is conflating "Dark Arts" with "Deathly Hallows" because she had "Dark Arts" on the mind.

I think I associate Dark Arts with Deathly Hallows as they are relatively both dark things. Or in my mind, both relate to the one who isn't to be named. The Deathly Hallows wouldn't exist without the dark arts I think.

It's like when I say scum. When I think of scum, I think both mafia and 3p (third party) are scum. Some sites like NF have taught me sometimes indies aren't scum.

[Owner of a Lonely Heart]

I could get behind the Freudian slip angle, especially since speedchuck asked her to comment on him so she may have been off guard when responding.

I did comment on speedychuck though, but he didn't plan on sticking around.

[Owner of a Lonely Heart]

Less than zero interest in lynching Jay...

This seems to be a recurring theme with you. Why?

I’m not sure what you mean by this remark, Quin? My personal view is that Jay is a fellow of superior intellect and capable of analysis far beyond that of mere mortals. On that basis, if he’s Town, I’d much prefer him on our side. If by some fluke he’s bad, he’ll reveal himself later down the track. I think he’s far more useful to us alive.

If you were by some chance referring to my last game here with Golden, I’ll confess - I do so wish he was playing this game. It would make my decision here infinitely easier.

Sure. On that same basis, if he's bad, I'd much prefer him dead. How do you think he'll reveal himself? Do you have any scum-3J tells to share?

I think there's a recurring theme when you play mafia where you prefer not to lynch the people you get along well with. That's normal, I'm not trying to tell you off or anything. But at the same time I think you need to be more mindful that we only get so much time in a game and we can't spend it protecting the people we like.

Or maybe I'm completely wrong about you.

Putting his usefulness if he's a civilian aside, do you actually think he is a civilian?

I wish I had meta on you. I can read this post both ways, but part me, kind of wants to read you town for it. Could Glorfindel be with jay? Or enjoys playing with friends thing?

[Turnip Head]

Yeah I know you commented on him. I'm just saying it wasn't your idea to do so, you were asked to. So maybe your thoughts came from a place of false consideration.

[DharmaHelper]

I think I associate Dark Arts with Deathly Hallows as they are relatively both dark things. Or in my mind, both relate to the one who isn't to be named. The Deathly Hallows wouldn't exist without the dark arts I think.

It's like when I say scum. When I think of scum, I think both mafia and 3p (third party) are scum. Some sites like NF have taught me sometimes indies aren't scum.

Cool so I'm now 80% sure you slipped up.

[nutella]

Epi and Owner are town.

I agree about epi but why owner?

[nutella]

I feel different than I did in the game you scum read me, but you scum read me in this game as well.

Yay!! You actually understood me. That is correct.

Yes, it might be weird to some, but I guess I'm waiting for you to do something to prove me wrong. I can't explain what that is, but I'll know it when I see it...if it even happens though, which it might not.

Pretty sure Owner is town.

mmm I guess I agree looking at that post again

[ColinIsCool]

Epi and Owner are town.

I agree about epi but why owner?

I felt good about that post that I think everyone is arguing about rn. Owner’s response about associating those terms sounds fake though. But also ... can someone tell me why that would be a scumslip in the first place

[nutella]

I've had btsc with epi and juliets before, that was definitely a conversation that would have been had in btsc instead of the thread. That's why epi pointed it out.

@Owner of a Lonely Heart if you suspect DH I suggest giving him a lil rope to hang himself with instead of attacking his every move. Mafia is more like chess and less like tag imo

I would say I play like chess but think like go.

I'm more of a Go-Soccer player myself.

I'm in the Shogi and Science club

(if anyone here gets that reference.... well then you have good taste

[nutella]

This one too:

My comment was that we are not mafia partners because I like to discuss things with my mafia teammates, and I "spoiled" something for juliets (even though I PUT THE DAMN THING IN SPOILER TAGS), so we are not bad together in BTSC.

This logic seems unsound. Do you mean that you pre-discuss everything you say in the thread with your teammates when you're bad?

There isn't any logic to it. I've been bad with juliets before, and juliets loves chat (see: discord). We would have been talking this stuff up, and juliets asks questions about things even when bad.

So my point is this:

juliets and I are not bad teammates together.

Use that. Work with it. Bye.

....I don't understand. Why would your question about when the spoilery thing happened in the series have come up in btsc with juliets rather than in the thread HP talk? Why are you drawing a connection to juliets before there was one?

what about it? I was (and still am) legitimately confused. Epi's question wasn't originally directed at juliets (and it was clear that she wouldn't be likely to know the answer) so why would it have happened in btsc, I just don't get it