Hogwarts Mafia - END

[Kylemii]

awooo i'm a spooky ghost frog

[speedchuck]

Note: Luna and I will be out of town all Sunday. Still suspect Glorf and Nutella. Still haven't elaborated why. I'll be here all Monday.

[nutella]

Considering how vague Nutella’s suspicions on me are and how her case on Jay is just “fight me,” this rainbow and her current suspicions look made up.

I don't make shit up.

[nutella]

idk if I have it in me to do the remaining Jay/INH interactive read, it is way past sleepy time but I might take a pass at it tomorrow; perhaps more salient imo though is his performance of his signature interactive read exercise itself. I'm not entirely convinced that his conclusions are completely honest and natural. and I'm not just saying that because he ended up suspecting me more than I would like, but I also found several of his other conclusions to be rather wimpy. specifically, in my experience he usually calls out the people who have little to no interaction with the confirmed scum because he sees non-interaction/avoidance as w/w behavior, but here he left most of those as truly neutral conclusions instead of bad-leaning ones, and only gave out a few actual bad-leaning conclusions about people with substantial amounts of interactive content. it sounds like he is treating the people with nonexistent inh interactions as having a blank slate, when really they should have the absence of interaction count as a strike against them. I have a feeling that a scum jay could be using his signature interactive read exercise to manipulate the focus onto the wrong people, because he isn't giving the types of analyses that I would expect.

You're right that in the past I have cited a lack of interactions with mafia members as being a bad indicator. My analytic methods are fluid though, in that they adapt over time as I develop my impressions about which assertions and intuitions of mine are actually productive. I'm not sure I have had better-than-random success with the specific accusation that X didn't interact very much with mafioso Y. It can still be a problem under circumstances which make that lack of interaction stand out, but in a vacuum -- it's only barely meaningful. In this case, we are speaking of INH, a player with a low post count who seemed generally ignored until late in Day 2. Even after I raised my initial gripes against him it took two pages for anyone to give a crap. There wasn't a whole lot to say about him, and his own content was restricted to addressing a small set of players.

Are there any players in particular that you believe should be given a harsher look as a result of their lacking interactivity with INH?

ok, I don't think this response changes my funny feeling that you may have faked or half-assed some of it but it's a fair point that interactions were fairly low anyway. to answer your question, I'd say Glorfindel, poutanko, Quin, and maybe Colin though you did end up orange-ing him. But conversely I think you gave a little too much weight to people with more interactive content, such as Luna and myself. I personally think that Luna is highly unlikely to be INH's teammate, and I know that I'm not, so you're either inadvertently reading too much into what content does exist to paint it as a potential teammate relationship, or you are maliciously doing so.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

ok, I don't think this response changes my funny feeling that you may have faked or half-assed some of it but it's a fair point that interactions were fairly low anyway. to answer your question, I'd say Glorfindel, poutanko, Quin, and maybe Colin though you did end up orange-ing him. But conversely I think you gave a little too much weight to people with more interactive content, such as Luna and myself. I personally think that Luna is highly unlikely to be INH's teammate, and I know that I'm not, so you're either inadvertently reading too much into what content does exist to paint it as a potential teammate relationship, or you are maliciously doing so.

What about their interaction leads you to this conclusion?

[speedchuck]

to answer your question, I'd say Glorfindel, poutanko, Quin, and maybe Colin

[nutella]

nutella, I believe you raised the first accusation of player salad in this game (against Owner I think?). When I went after INH for his prototype salad, you were clearly not comfortable following the lead. This stands out especially because that sort of hesitation doesn't really seem to exist often or at all elsewhere in your post history. Why did INH deserve that?

a) I pointed out Owner's "salad" but never pursued it as a reason to suspect her as I was largely townreading her.
b) What kind of hesitation do you mean that doesn't exist in my post history?
c) I was townreading INH at the time and wasn't about to 180 on him solely based on salad, just as I didn't with Owner.

[nutella]

to answer your question, I'd say Glorfindel, poutanko, Quin, and maybe Colin

Can I help you?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

to answer your question, I'd say Glorfindel, poutanko, Quin, and maybe Colin

Can I help you?

[nutella]

ok, I don't think this response changes my funny feeling that you may have faked or half-assed some of it but it's a fair point that interactions were fairly low anyway. to answer your question, I'd say Glorfindel, poutanko, Quin, and maybe Colin though you did end up orange-ing him. But conversely I think you gave a little too much weight to people with more interactive content, such as Luna and myself. I personally think that Luna is highly unlikely to be INH's teammate, and I know that I'm not, so you're either inadvertently reading too much into what content does exist to paint it as a potential teammate relationship, or you are maliciously doing so.

What about their interaction leads you to this conclusion?

Scum Luna would have gone to more of an effort to get INH lynched.

[speedchuck]

to answer your question, I'd say Glorfindel, poutanko, Quin, and maybe Colin

Can I help you?

Maybe later, when I get home. Salad though.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

nutella, I believe you raised the first accusation of player salad in this game (against Owner I think?). When I went after INH for his prototype salad, you were clearly not comfortable following the lead. This stands out especially because that sort of hesitation doesn't really seem to exist often or at all elsewhere in your post history. Why did INH deserve that?

a) I pointed out Owner's "salad" but never pursued it as a reason to suspect her as I was largely townreading her.
b) What kind of hesitation do you mean that doesn't exist in my post history?
c) I was townreading INH at the time and wasn't about to 180 on him solely based on salad, just as I didn't with Owner.

c) is an answer of sorts to b). These days you aren't one to show that kind of restraint. You flip 180 on people in a heartbeat, which is to your credit -- many players can't do it at all, let alone on a dime. In this case though you were timid, and it's a poop look when the target was exactly what I said he was.

[sprityo]

I was the sacrifice? Sounds awful, I don't remember. I wouldn't peg Jay as the bussing type, but I don't know. I was bad with him in that Mafia game where we were letter-based call-signs (Bravo, Delta, etc) and I screwed up early and spectacularly as I usually do when bad, and let everyone down, and he stepped up and ran the show until he got us the baddie win. Good times.

you let me down the most, you had the once in a lifetime role to use and managed to get yourself killed right off the bat. albeit not your fault, it was speedchuck's fault

[nutella]

to answer your question, I'd say Glorfindel, poutanko, Quin, and maybe Colin

Can I help you?

Maybe later, when I get home. Salad though.

Decidedly not salad. It's a set of people who fit certain criteria in order to answer the question I was asked. But sure, just go around calling anything you want a salad.

[nutella]

nutella, I believe you raised the first accusation of player salad in this game (against Owner I think?). When I went after INH for his prototype salad, you were clearly not comfortable following the lead. This stands out especially because that sort of hesitation doesn't really seem to exist often or at all elsewhere in your post history. Why did INH deserve that?

a) I pointed out Owner's "salad" but never pursued it as a reason to suspect her as I was largely townreading her.
b) What kind of hesitation do you mean that doesn't exist in my post history?
c) I was townreading INH at the time and wasn't about to 180 on him solely based on salad, just as I didn't with Owner.

c) is an answer of sorts to b). These days you aren't one to show that kind of restraint. You flip 180 on people in a heartbeat, which is to your credit -- many players can't do it at all, let alone on a dime. In this case though you were timid, and it's a poop look when the target was exactly what I said he was.

I think you give me too much credit, or maybe it looks like I flip 180 more than I feel like I do because of how those thought processes work internally. In any case I think that if I were INH's teammate I would have been more likely to turn on him there.

[nutella]

Hi [mention]sprityo[/mention] do you have any thoughts yet

[Long Con]

I was the sacrifice? Sounds awful, I don't remember. I wouldn't peg Jay as the bussing type, but I don't know. I was bad with him in that Mafia game where we were letter-based call-signs (Bravo, Delta, etc) and I screwed up early and spectacularly as I usually do when bad, and let everyone down, and he stepped up and ran the show until he got us the baddie win. Good times.

you let me down the most, you had the once in a lifetime role to use and managed to get yourself killed right off the bat...

That's like, my thing.

[nutella]

btw I just skimmed through Jack's ISO and I don't think I could name a single stance he took during all of Day 1

[nutella]

he posts much more on day 2 but most of it is still relatively passive/observation rather than engaging with anyone past surface level. feels like he's afraid to get his hands dirty

[ColinIsCool]

@ColinIsCool, as this day phase began you provided a few examples of mafia-INH from past games to describe his treatment of his teammates. I'd like to see how you apply that information to the present game.

Unfortunately I didn’t find anything that excited me. It’s tough to say whether he was bussing or not too because the UPick game didn’t see him have to. Ultimately a null exercise.

[ColinIsCool]

Okay, now that I’m caught up, USE THE FUCKING REZZES TONIGHT

Not to piss in the lemonade here but would the lack of rezzes indicate either nobody has any, whoever does have them died, or whoever does have them is inactive/bad?

Yikes fam.

May be that way.

[ColinIsCool]

to answer your question, I'd say Glorfindel, poutanko, Quin, and maybe Colin

It’s that “maybe,” isn’t it? Always the “maybe.”

[ColinIsCool]

[VOTE: JACK] aubergine. Like the cases made and I have been convinced to re-evaluate the case on Sloonei.

[ColinIsCool]

Hypothetically assuming I used a Niffler, is it pro-town to share the results? Please weigh in on this and thank you.

[Sloonei]

Why are there only three votes on the poll? Y'all are wack.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Considering how vague Nutella’s suspicions on me are and how her case on Jay is just “fight me,” this rainbow and her current suspicions look made up.

I don't make shit up.

Even when you're scum?

[Jackofhearts2005]

This is obnoxious.

[mention]ColinIsCool[/mention] maaaaaason me.

[Long Con]

idk if I have it in me to do the remaining Jay/INH interactive read, it is way past sleepy time but I might take a pass at it tomorrow; perhaps more salient imo though is his performance of his signature interactive read exercise itself. I'm not entirely convinced that his conclusions are completely honest and natural. and I'm not just saying that because he ended up suspecting me more than I would like, but I also found several of his other conclusions to be rather wimpy. specifically, in my experience he usually calls out the people who have little to no interaction with the confirmed scum because he sees non-interaction/avoidance as w/w behavior, but here he left most of those as truly neutral conclusions instead of bad-leaning ones, and only gave out a few actual bad-leaning conclusions about people with substantial amounts of interactive content. it sounds like he is treating the people with nonexistent inh interactions as having a blank slate, when really they should have the absence of interaction count as a strike against them. I have a feeling that a scum jay could be using his signature interactive read exercise to manipulate the focus onto the wrong people, because he isn't giving the types of analyses that I would expect.

You're right that in the past I have cited a lack of interactions with mafia members as being a bad indicator. My analytic methods are fluid though, in that they adapt over time as I develop my impressions about which assertions and intuitions of mine are actually productive. I'm not sure I have had better-than-random success with the specific accusation that X didn't interact very much with mafioso Y. It can still be a problem under circumstances which make that lack of interaction stand out, but in a vacuum -- it's only barely meaningful. In this case, we are speaking of INH, a player with a low post count who seemed generally ignored until late in Day 2. Even after I raised my initial gripes against him it took two pages for anyone to give a crap. There wasn't a whole lot to say about him, and his own content was restricted to addressing a small set of players.

Are there any players in particular that you believe should be given a harsher look as a result of their lacking interactivity with INH?

ok, I don't think this response changes my funny feeling that you may have faked or half-assed some of it but it's a fair point that interactions were fairly low anyway. to answer your question, I'd say Glorfindel, poutanko, Quin, and maybe Colin though you did end up orange-ing him. But conversely I think you gave a little too much weight to people with more interactive content, such as Luna and myself. I personally think that Luna is highly unlikely to be INH's teammate, and I know that I'm not, so you're either inadvertently reading too much into what content does exist to paint it as a potential teammate relationship, or you are maliciously doing so.

[Sloonei]

I think we need to have a long and drawn-out discussion of when the accusation of "player salad" is or is not merited. Sometimes somebody can list off a bunch of names in a way that's authentic to their scum-hunting process. Other times they can list a bunch of names because they lack a firm grounding and don't want to commit themselves to any particular path. It's the latter that's suspicious.

[nutella]

LC, seriously? Already debunked. Chill.

[Jackofhearts2005]

[VOTE: Nutella] aubergine

[nutella]

Sloonei is as always a voice of reason.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The only true salad I have seen in this game was INH's. nutella's is close to the salad spectrum given the classic "maybe" structure, but the context is more forgivable.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[VOTE: sprityo] aubergine

[Sloonei]

Anyone got a compelling argument for reading Jack as town?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Anyone got a compelling argument for reading Jack as town?

no

[nutella]

MacDougall

Spoiler: show

is mafia. Discuss.

He's too quiet to be mafia. He should be bullying someone into being lynched and then shrugging when they're town. Or if someone else gets lynched, complaining about it.

Right? That's what I remember from the only time I've played with scumMac.

Nutella and Mac should fight.

[mention]Jackofhearts2005[/mention] can you explain these two posts regarding macdougall/what is your stance on him currently

[Long Con]

LC, seriously? Already debunked. Chill.

I may have missed that. But really, Jay put it just how I see it:

The only true salad I have seen in this game was INH's. nutella's is close to the salad spectrum given the classic "maybe" structure, but the context is more forgivable.

I couldn't resist, since we had just discussed, at some length, that exact structure. But if it had already been brought up, then I just suck.

[nutella]

when did mac vote for speed?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

nutella called it "debunked" though which is a bullshit word to use

[nutella]

nutella called it "debunked" though which is a bullshit word to use

[JaggedJimmyJay]

We have three replacements. Everyone tell me about them.

[MacDougall]

when did mac vote for speed?

At the exact same time as my last posts.

[MacDougall]

Did I hear someone say Long Con as Mafia is debunked?

[MacDougall]

Changing my vote to Colin. He bad.

[nutella]

Did I hear someone say Long Con as Mafia is debunked?

No but do you have reason to believe so?

[nutella]

Changing my vote to Colin. He bad.

Why?

[nutella]

We have three replacements. Everyone tell me about them.

Sloonei is town. Sprityo and speed2.0 haven't done anything yet. I have a reason to think that speed2.0's player slot is town. I don't have any reason to think sprityo is town.

[ColinIsCool]

I’m sketched by Mac this game. Exactly the same as his Hydra scum game where he didn’t show up. He has no fire and it’s hard to think he believes anything he says.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I could lynch Mac.