SPACE FORCE [END]

#851

Re read that post when I flip civ so that the full weight of it is realised.

I think we need to do something about the casual meannness that is accepted here in general. As someone who is guilty of it I know that seems hypocritical but we have had Owner basically quit over it. Dunya bringing the townies are assholes meta in here to civ read Chuck who tbh if he is being a dick as Mafia to win can't even be criticised because it's not against the site or game rules to do it. If we don't enact some way of enforcing penalties for being a dick to people it seems like being a dick is becoming a viable tactic for being town read. How long until it's a scum tactic too. How long until being a dick is standard and we are just mafiascum?

It's a game with nothing but pride on the line. Winning shouldn't be above being kind to one another.

End my hypocritical rant.

#852

i dont think i agree with you there. i don't care about the outburst as much as i do the selfvote. the selfvote really bothers me for a myriad of reasons i cannot justify in any context or alignment. but mafia is about personalities and determining if someone is bad or good; i can absolutely use "would speed do this as mafia/town?" to build a read on him and that isn't out of bounds. if i'm wrong this game, so be it.

#853

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:25 am tbf, i know plenty of scum who are toxic too. i'm judging speed on speed. speed's personality doesn't fit the meta of hitting me below the belt that way if he was the last scum in the same way someone like juliets/glorf/sloonei wouldn't. i wouldn't put it past someone like nutella who has a pretty impulsive and hot headed personality in either alignment, but you said it yourself, speed is more reserved and calm as scum--so what is with the outburst this way?

The same can be said for you so if I am meant to just civ read both of you for blowing up at each other that proves my point. I am ignoring the parts where he got angry and I see a Mafia. I refuse to clear him because he got mad. Not to mention that would involve having to scum read someone that voted for Quin which makes no sense when there were 2 votes on 2 others. Quin wasn't bussed it makes no sense. So one of you is Mafia. And one of you is Mafia that has imitated civilian emotion for your gain. As unlikely as it is, it has to be Chuck.

I think you might have pissed him off briefly and he made an emotional outburst at you for your style of hunt. There is such a thing as being scum and feeling mad because you're being read scum for illogical reasons.

#854

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:29 am i dont think i agree with you there. i don't care about the outburst as much as i do the selfvote. the selfvote really bothers me for a myriad of reasons i cannot justify in any context or alignment. but mafia is about personalities and determining if someone is bad or good; i can absolutely use "would speed do this as mafia/town?" to build a read on him and that isn't out of bounds. if i'm wrong this game, so be it.

Self voting is no big deal ever. Marmot does it day 1 for shits and giggles all the time. Speedchuck just did it to feign defeated civ.

#855

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:32 am There is such a thing as being scum and feeling mad because you're being read scum for illogical reasons.

that's true, actually. do you think i was being illogical, though?

i still don't see how i am perceived as looking scummy in this game. i mean, we can assume someone is scummy and start applying scum motive and reason behind every word and action, but that's not the same thing as someone legit doing scummy things. i don't understand why people think i'm scummy when i'm town.

#856

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:33 am
dunya wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:29 am i dont think i agree with you there. i don't care about the outburst as much as i do the selfvote. the selfvote really bothers me for a myriad of reasons i cannot justify in any context or alignment. but mafia is about personalities and determining if someone is bad or good; i can absolutely use "would speed do this as mafia/town?" to build a read on him and that isn't out of bounds. if i'm wrong this game, so be it.
Self voting is no big deal ever. Marmot does it day 1 for shits and giggles all the time. Speedchuck just did it to feign defeated civ.

marmot does it as a placeholder in day 1 whether he's town or mafia, or for shits and giggles as you said. speedchuck is basically doing it as a pretense to having enough of the game and wanting out, it's not dissimilar to timmer threatening to quit the game if he accumulated votes. the latter is never ok in any context.

#857

i don't like playing games when someone has a "quitting" reaction when they are suspected. it makes me feel genuinely uncomfortable and practically disabled and unable to comfortably suspect them after that point. it's not right.

#858

if you wanna do it, do it in a way that doesn't make the other person question their ethics. "ok, lynch me since you're going to have to get me out of the way but lynch so and so after i flip town"

there's a graceful way of self destructing as town. see turnip head in this game as a reference point. at no point did he make anyone uncomfortable, although i'm pretty sure he was face palming quite a bit with our logic and reasons.

#859

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:35 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:32 am There is such a thing as being scum and feeling mad because you're being read scum for illogical reasons.
that's true, actually. do you think i was being illogical, though?

i still don't see how i am perceived as looking scummy in this game. i mean, we can assume someone is scummy and start applying scum motive and reason behind every word and action, but that's not the same thing as someone legit doing scummy things. i don't understand why people think i'm scummy when i'm town.

I can't put myself in his shoes. Maybe he felt like he has been playing a clean game and didn't deserve your tunnelling out of the gate. I have been mad as scum before for the same thing. Matt F pissed me off to no end once when I was an anti town indie and he added 2 with 2 and found me as scum and never let go all game. I let him have it multiple times over it because it is a terribly frustrating place to be when you shouldn't be getting suspicion in a game of survival.

Or maybe he is a civ and one of the Quin voters bussed him. They're all bussers. I just don't believe so in the context.

If you are incredulous about why people are scum reading you why are you scum reading me for town reading you?

#860

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:39 am if you wanna do it, do it in a way that doesn't make the other person question their ethics. "ok, lynch me since you're going to have to get me out of the way but lynch so and so after i flip town"

there's a graceful way of self destructing as town. see turnip head in this game as a reference point. at no point did he make anyone uncomfortable, although i'm pretty sure he was face palming quite a bit with our logic and reasons.

I basically did the same thing before you insisted I try.

I think Speedchuck was either trying to look like or genuinely was self voting under the pretext of "let's just get it over with so you can get past me". I felt like doing the same thing at the time. I don't think he was "giving up" so to speak. If he was then it was very likely an emotional plea to get you to unvote him like I said earlier.

#861

because you never town read me. if everyone in the game has a reason to scum read me, i find it hard to believe you have 0 reason to do the same. i'm not agreeing i'm scummy, because i can show you my town motive in everything i've said and done (not that speed will listen or be swayed), i'm just saying i'm always perceived that way. it goes hand in hand with being an outspoken player and a high poster.

i would still like to know why everyone thinks i'm scummy for my info to better my town game. like a short summary would be cool.

#862

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:44 am
dunya wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:39 am if you wanna do it, do it in a way that doesn't make the other person question their ethics. "ok, lynch me since you're going to have to get me out of the way but lynch so and so after i flip town"

there's a graceful way of self destructing as town. see turnip head in this game as a reference point. at no point did he make anyone uncomfortable, although i'm pretty sure he was face palming quite a bit with our logic and reasons.
I basically did the same thing before you insisted I try.

yes you did. i appreciate that you didn't rage over the suspicions.

#863

there's no way a town macdougall wouldn't even tinfoil on a scum dunya existing is what i'm saying. it's uncanny and seems ungenuine to me. again, i will be disappointed in myself till next year if you are town.

#864

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:47 am because you never town read me. if everyone in the game has a reason to scum read me, i find it hard to believe you have 0 reason to do the same. i'm not agreeing i'm scummy, because i can show you my town motive in everything i've said and done (not that speed will listen or be swayed), i'm just saying i'm always perceived that way. it goes hand in hand with being an outspoken player and a high poster.

i would still like to know why everyone thinks i'm scummy for my info to better my town game. like a short summary would be cool.

I started to analyse you, saw some sus things and then the game came into focus for me and I stopped. There is no room for you to be Mafia in the game I am perceiving. It has as much to do with Speedchuck as with you. I was reading the game before I played and thought you might be Mafia. I am not always shit at the game Dunya I am bound to read you correctly sometimes.

#865

MacDougall wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 5:51 pm Hypothesis: Dunya is Mafia and is afraid of casing Speedchuck because she knows he is town and knows he has some good oil on her. Would not Dunya as civ aggressively hammer the obvscum speed?

You ask why you seem scummy. Its because you don't have a consistent perspective. It shifts all the time and people don't like inconsistency in their fellow civs.

I did tinfoil you. It's like I have to be wrong about you to be town. Sorry but that's dumb.

#866

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:50 am there's no way a town macdougall wouldn't even tinfoil on a scum dunya existing is what i'm saying. it's uncanny and seems ungenuine to me. again, i will be disappointed in myself till next year if you are town.

Start feeling disappointed now and get a head start.

#867

And again if you are Mafia... Well okay then.

#868

When I started to tinfoil you Speedchuck dived all over it. Because he saw a path to you getting lynched today and having me at lylo as an easy lynch.

Comparatively you are going for me. You hope to win today. You aren't planning for tomorrow. You even said you'd be going after bloody dizzy. That's an insane Mafia plan.

How could I scum read you? A scum Dunya would be all over a town Speedchuck today if only to be setting up his lynch... You know, the way Chuck is you.

Chuck will probably come back and try to build a case on Dyslexicon now too.

#869

Dunya would you go to these lengths to win as Mafia? Honestly.

#870

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:07 am Dunya would you go to these lengths to win as Mafia? Honestly.

not sure i understand the question. what are these lengths i have gone to here?

i get passionate and involved in either alignment for sure, but i tend to defend myself with less frustration as mafia because i feel the suspicion is warranted from whoever is dishing it, unlike when i am civ.

#871

let's assume for a moment macdougall flips town.

why it could be luna:

they wouldn't bus! actually, quin has no qualms with bussing. calling luna most suspicious out of disliking no lynch is early distancing. voting for her when it was between me and dizzy was also out of the blue.

luna reciprocating the vote. what chance did she have of saving quin last minute when daisy voted for quin? how would it have looked if she removed her vote and instead got one of me and dizzy who would have flipped town. it would have appeared as an obvious save. kind of tricky.

why it can't be luna:

the biggest thing luna has going for her there in the whole d1 lynch is that she was the 2nd vote on quin and tied him with me and dizzy. it seems to me that what quin did would have quantified as enough distancing for day 1 between 2 scum members. she could have easily latched onto the suspicions surrounding me or dizzy instead and ensured one of our lynches. she didn't. i just don't see purpose for a scum luna to have tied the lynch with her only other teammate and the scum PR that way.

likelihood of scumminess imo, i'd say 1.5/5.

#872

i considered the fact that Dizzy was the first Quin voter which could have been early distancing. also to consider is that like my argument for Luna, Dizzy removing his vote off Quin in the last half hour when Daisy sealed the deal, to instead lynch a town-dunya would have seemed highly suspicious to both him and Quin. it's not as farfetched as Luna, but it still doesn't seem as likely when i consider it today.

one has to wonder if Dizzy was Quin's teammate then why didn't Quin latch onto suspicions of me instead of voting for Luna the way he did. The thread environment was me and sabie vs Dizzy and TH and speed vs me. It seems far simpler for me to believe that nova was Quin's teammate at the time and Quin felt no pressure at all to be attached to any bandwagons which would have cost him some scrutiny from either side of the fence so he goes with the easy Luna vote for *reasons* and votes like a lone wolf avoiding controversy or even any sort of contribution into the arguments for/against a dunya/dizzy lynch.

likelihood nova was Quin's D1 teammate - 4.5/5
likelihood Dizzy was Quin's D1 teammate - 2/5

#873

i'm feeling more and more confident it's Mac and hope the game ends there. open to discussions and other opinions.

#874

I have become that which I hate.

Last note on the matter: When I self-voted, I may have been quitting on my own defense, but I was not trying to throw the game. My understanding was that the game would be better solvable for town is I wasn't there during MYLO, because I noticed that I'd been disrupting the heck out of everything.

Also, I reeeeaaaaallly didn't want to be the last mislynch in a game. That puts the blame on me and oof owie my pride.

I recognize that it has caused more problems that solved and I will not do it again.

#875

Anyway I do also want to join the discussion about emotional manipulation once the game ends. I've got some things to add.

#876

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:01 am Chuck will probably come back and try to build a case on Dyslexicon now too.

I'm not doing that and have no desire to. I already reviewed Dizzy.

#877

are you convinced it's mac, speed?

#878

dunya wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:07 pm If mac was scum right now he would have pushed for my lynch, not speeds. I'm almost 100 percent sure of that.

Can you explain why? Is there some dynamic I'm unaware of here?

#879

dunya wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:21 pm If you're town speed, I hope you take this game as a lesson to not tunnel me for a whole game. If you're scum, bye.

The hypocricy in this post is scalding.

#880

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:20 pm
dunya wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:07 pm If mac was scum right now he would have pushed for my lynch, not speeds. I'm almost 100 percent sure of that.
Can you explain why? Is there some dynamic I'm unaware of here?

sweet dizzy, so much has happened since that post. i'm like, 100% sure it's him now and he was buddying me and trying to manipulate me

sorry if i gave you grief in this game for suspecting you before, i've never played with you before now. i feel like after the first game we will have a better grasp of each other's meta.

#881

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:22 pm
dunya wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:21 pm If you're town speed, I hope you take this game as a lesson to not tunnel me for a whole game. If you're scum, bye.
The hypocricy in this post is scalding.

i know you feel that way, but i presented my case on you then heard your responses and was convinced for the most part i was wrong. i don't try to be an obnoxious tunneler, i promise.

#882

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:41 pm *votes*

I know what you all will say, and I don't care at all. Pile the votes on me and check and see if the mod will end the day early. Then you two can fight it out.

Mac is probably scum. Dunya deserves to be lynched. Whichever you pick tomorrow, I'm happy.

Wtf is this? Is this a thing for Speed?

#883

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:23 pm
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:20 pm
dunya wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:07 pm If mac was scum right now he would have pushed for my lynch, not speeds. I'm almost 100 percent sure of that.
Can you explain why? Is there some dynamic I'm unaware of here?
sweet dizzy, so much has happened since that post. i'm like, 100% sure it's him now and he was buddying me and trying to manipulate me

sorry if i gave you grief in this game for suspecting you before, i've never played with you before now. i feel like after the first game we will have a better grasp of each other's meta.

Ugh, I'm not getting less paranoid with you suddenly being extremely nice to me o.o
But I also don't want to be a jerk, and I completely think that anything you've done this game is fair and all no matter your alignment. It's just that I can't not get affected by it. And yeah, I'm also suspected a lot with players who are unfamiliar with me (but as I said also scaped goated on this site, or at least attempted, so I'm a bit hyper aware).

#884

And yeah, sorry for dragging up outdated stuff, I guess. I'm catching up as I go, and this whole you vs Speed thing is intense.

#885

Like, do players rage quit here often? I've seen it be an actual thing and also a tactic from scum on my home site, but only from a couple of specific players. And it doesn't really seem like Speed. I usually read it town unless the players has history of otherwise.

#886

Also taking in Spacey's read on dunya btw. I'm trying to see her town, but a lot of things still bug me. But I can't say they can't bug me and she could still be town.

What I don't like about Mac is that he has jumped around in a way that just looks I don't even know, not natural or something. Also I could totally see Quin being lynched by his teammate being absent. I know Mac can't answer to that, but it was one of my first thoughts after Quin flipped as well.

#887

Of course I'm not sure. I have about as much trust in my ability to hunt as in my ability to flip an omelet. But he's just about convinced me it isn't you.

Linki for the last time this was not a rage quit.

#888

I'll try to explain what was going through my head after the game when it doesn't seem like further manipulation.

#889

speedchuck wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 7:45 pm I would kill for hammer-lynches to be a thing, holy crap.

I feel the same way. >_> I was so ready for a block or something revealing after the day post was up. This is not to say I don't enjoy playing here or enjoy playing with you guys. It's just that I'm a bit extra burnt out on mafia and blah blah doesn't really matter hi, Speed hi

#890

speedchuck wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:40 pm I'll try to explain what was going through my head after the game when it doesn't seem like further manipulation.

Alright. Sorry. Didn't mean to bring up dead dirt. I'm just reading through now.

#891

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:35 pm What I don't like about Mac is that he has jumped around in a way that just looks I don't even know, not natural or something. Also I could totally see Quin being lynched by his teammate being absent.

those are both my 2 largest arguments for a mac lynch today. also, how he was trying to pocket me in his backside pocket.

#892

dunya wrote: ↑Wed Nov 21, 2018 8:13 pm Poor Dizzy. When he comes and reads this mess of a page I can imagine the disappointment and probably the conclusive dunya vote. It's ok guys I'm the scummiest person to ever play mafia. Gotta keep rolling scum if I wanna win easy.

I'm leaning Mac btw. Not that it seems to matter. I'm taking in Spacey's read on you, and she seemed quite sure, and I know she's town. Plus I did get another feel when I read the Ancient Greece game, and I probably shouldn't forget that.

#893

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 3:42 pmthose are both my 2 largest arguments for a mac lynch today. also, how he was trying to pocket me in his backside pocket.

Yeah, I could see the moving around as "who wants to lynch this person? No? This person? Aha, but this person!" if that makes sense

#894

MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:26 am Re read that post when I flip civ so that the full weight of it is realised.

I think we need to do something about the casual meannness that is accepted here in general. As someone who is guilty of it I know that seems hypocritical but we have had Owner basically quit over it. Dunya bringing the townies are assholes meta in here to civ read Chuck who tbh if he is being a dick as Mafia to win can't even be criticised because it's not against the site or game rules to do it. If we don't enact some way of enforcing penalties for being a dick to people it seems like being a dick is becoming a viable tactic for being town read. How long until it's a scum tactic too. How long until being a dick is standard and we are just mafiascum?

It's a game with nothing but pride on the line. Winning shouldn't be above being kind to one another.

End my hypocritical rant.

Can we save this discussion for after the game? I have stuff to say about this, but I think it's better to just wait until the game is over. I don't really think anyone has been intentionally mean this game. And in the end it's just a game, even if the feels get you at the time (I know it does with me).

#895

I'm not really getting the case on Speed. If he has a history of self vote/just lynch me guyez as scum, then ok, but I can't recall Speed like this in any game. Mostly remember town!Speed (or 3p Speed), people say he's been scum a lot (?) Am I just not remembering the games or are those games I didn't play?

#896

I think dunya has convinced me she's town. If not she's particularly savvy and hard core, which I guess she probably is lol, but I don't really see it anymore with everything that's happened the last couple of pages.

I said I was going to reread the game, but I'm not really feeling up for it. I can't really see it being anyone else than Mac so that's where I'm voting.

#897

End the day. I don't feel like wasting another day being told I am scum.

#898

Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 4:02 pm
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 8:26 am Re read that post when I flip civ so that the full weight of it is realised.

I think we need to do something about the casual meannness that is accepted here in general. As someone who is guilty of it I know that seems hypocritical but we have had Owner basically quit over it. Dunya bringing the townies are assholes meta in here to civ read Chuck who tbh if he is being a dick as Mafia to win can't even be criticised because it's not against the site or game rules to do it. If we don't enact some way of enforcing penalties for being a dick to people it seems like being a dick is becoming a viable tactic for being town read. How long until it's a scum tactic too. How long until being a dick is standard and we are just mafiascum?

It's a game with nothing but pride on the line. Winning shouldn't be above being kind to one another.

End my hypocritical rant.
Can we save this discussion for after the game? I have stuff to say about this, but I think it's better to just wait until the game is over. I don't really think anyone has been intentionally mean this game. And in the end it's just a game, even if the feels get you at the time (I know it does with me).

Yes.

#899

I don't think anyone is properly reading my posts if you think I am bad tbh.

#900

dunya wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:06 am
MacDougall wrote: ↑Thu Nov 22, 2018 9:07 am Dunya would you go to these lengths to win as Mafia? Honestly.
not sure i understand the question. what are these lengths i have gone to here?

i get passionate and involved in either alignment for sure, but i tend to defend myself with less frustration as mafia because i feel the suspicion is warranted from whoever is dishing it, unlike when i am civ.

Would you fake rage at Speedchuck?