Community Mafia [GAME OVER]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

you are literally the king of asking a million questions for the purpose of asking questions

DEAN'T GIVE ME THAT

so 3j is bad

Now you're doubling dean on dumb things.

i dont know what this means but im gonna go write a thesis real quick and then ill lynch you after that

I'll explain what I meant now. You told me I said "something so contradictory", which I view as ludicrous hyperbole at best (I don't know what the contradiction even is, let alone why it's so contradictory). I dismissed it as nonsense straightaway, and you responded by drawing a contextually irrelevant parallel to my questioning nature and called me bad. You doubled down on an assertion I find too basic to be taken seriously -- I have doubts that you believe it.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

agreeable. and can i ask why you townread epi?

He's one of few that seems to be working the thread in such a way that it can promote civilian productivity beyond just present reads.

[Epignosis]

Quin is good, unlike the announcements.

I'd rather hear your take on two-bit DF.

[Epignosis]

agreeable. and can i ask why you townread epi?

He's one of few that seems to be working the thread in such a way that it can promote civilian productivity beyond just present reads.

Me? Working?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Quin is good, unlike the announcements.

I'd rather hear your take on two-bit DF.

I agree with his general sentiment that an isolated "call out" of my mechanics post is a suspicious thing. I direct that at DDL primarily.

DF directed it at nobody and didn't answer me when I asked him to gimme names, so that's bad. I feel no compulsion to call him a civilian.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Does this player presently cause any secretions in my civilian glands?

ColinIsCool - no
colonialbob - no
DFaraday - no
Dragon D. Luffy - no
dunya - no
Epignosis - yes
MacDougall - yes
novaselinenever - no
Quin - no
reywaS - no
sabie12 - yes

Your dean is eager for more secretions.

[Quin]

you are literally the king of asking a million questions for the purpose of asking questions

DEAN'T GIVE ME THAT

so 3j is bad

Now you're doubling dean on dumb things.

i dont know what this means but im gonna go write a thesis real quick and then ill lynch you after that

I'll explain what I meant now. You told me I said "something so contradictory", which I view as ludicrous hyperbole at best (I don't know what the contradiction even is, let alone why it's so contradictory). I dismissed it as nonsense straightaway, and you responded by drawing a contextually irrelevant parallel to my questioning nature and called me bad. You doubled down on an assertion I find too basic to be taken seriously -- I have doubts that you believe it.

You called me bad because I gave an opinion and asked a question and didn't come out of that with a read on the person I was talking to (which actually isn't true to begin with - read the post). You may as well have said you suspected me for talking.

Maybe 'contradiction' was the wrong word. The point was it's a dumb thing to say on your part because not every exchange is *going* to end in a read and the King of Fuck Mountain who has a 2 page long conversation with every living player every day phase should know that better than anybody.

I haven't watched Community, but I'm gonna guess Dean is a vegetarian because this beef is fake as hell.

[DFaraday]

Quin is good, unlike the announcements.

I'd rather hear your take on two-bit DF.

I agree with his general sentiment that an isolated "call out" of my mechanics post is a suspicious thing. I direct that at DDL primarily.

DF directed it at nobody and didn't answer me when I asked him to gimme names, so that's bad. I feel no compulsion to call him a civilian.

Sorry for being at work?

I was referring to Epi and Mac, but more so Epi since Mac didn't actually imply that the charting meant that JJJ was bad. These posts from Epi show him suggesting that JJJ's efforts were a Mafia smokescreen:

Literally nobody cares about any of this Day 0. Literally nobody.

That's why civilians lose.

Civilians don't lose because nobody paid attention to chart. You are doing work to do work.

You know what I do when I'm bad? I count on my fingers how many civilians I need to knock off to win. That's a mafia chart.

Jay is more concerned with the setup than with who is bad. I have solved this thing for you.

If Epi can offer evidence that JJJ primarily does this sort of analysis as a baddie but not as a civ I'll reconsider, but as it is I don't buy his reasoning here.

[Quin]

Quin is good, unlike the announcements.

I'd rather hear your take on two-bit DF.

I agree with his general sentiment that an isolated "call out" of my mechanics post is a suspicious thing. I direct that at DDL primarily.

DF directed it at nobody and didn't answer me when I asked him to gimme names, so that's bad. I feel no compulsion to call him a civilian.

Sorry for being at work?

I was referring to Epi and Mac, but more so Epi since Mac didn't actually imply that the charting meant that JJJ was bad. These posts from Epi show him suggesting that JJJ's efforts were a Mafia smokescreen:

Literally nobody cares about any of this Day 0. Literally nobody.

That's why civilians lose.

Civilians don't lose because nobody paid attention to chart. You are doing work to do work.

You know what I do when I'm bad? I count on my fingers how many civilians I need to knock off to win. That's a mafia chart.

Jay is more concerned with the setup than with who is bad. I have solved this thing for you.

If Epi can offer evidence that JJJ primarily does this sort of analysis as a baddie but not as a civ I'll reconsider, but as it is I don't buy his reasoning here.

I thought that Epi was doing it as a way to gauge 3J's alignment. No idea about Mac though.

[DFaraday]

Quin is good, unlike the announcements.

I'd rather hear your take on two-bit DF.

I agree with his general sentiment that an isolated "call out" of my mechanics post is a suspicious thing. I direct that at DDL primarily.

DF directed it at nobody and didn't answer me when I asked him to gimme names, so that's bad. I feel no compulsion to call him a civilian.

Sorry for being at work?

I was referring to Epi and Mac, but more so Epi since Mac didn't actually imply that the charting meant that JJJ was bad. These posts from Epi show him suggesting that JJJ's efforts were a Mafia smokescreen:

Literally nobody cares about any of this Day 0. Literally nobody.

That's why civilians lose.

Civilians don't lose because nobody paid attention to chart. You are doing work to do work.

You know what I do when I'm bad? I count on my fingers how many civilians I need to knock off to win. That's a mafia chart.

Jay is more concerned with the setup than with who is bad. I have solved this thing for you.

If Epi can offer evidence that JJJ primarily does this sort of analysis as a baddie but not as a civ I'll reconsider, but as it is I don't buy his reasoning here.

I thought that Epi was doing it as a way to gauge 3J's alignment. No idea about Mac though.

In Mac's case it did come across as trying to discourage JJJ's analysis by making his confusion with JJJ's methods highly visible, but his motive for doing so is harder for me to get a read on than Epi's posts. However I was just going over Mac's posts and this is suspect to me.

no one asked me, but ima go ahead and tell you why i think mac is mafia.

he comes in here to demotivate jjj. he has an issue with jjj taking the leader role. he's vocalizing it to make others aware of these issues he has with jjj. he is trying to renounce jjj's place in the thread. ok...

but then nah, he doesn't wanna take jjj's place after all. he's happy being led. he's happy jjj being himself.

there was no purpose for the former or the latter. when someone comes in strong and then contradicts everything said, it is always a plot to weaken or cause conflict or shake trust in a person. macdougall here was initially trying to take civ jjj off course, and whether he continued or not, the posts are there. they have already garnered agreement from at least 2 other people. there is purpose behind every post, especially one that criticizes another player's playing style, and especially when macdougall is no newbie to jjj or his playstyle. it gets old ya know. the pocketing approach may have worked in ass-class, but it wouldn't work in any game i'm in.

This is all very basic analysis from someone with an intuition based game. You're bad because you picked the most logical case to put together that you could see, when ordinarily you are capable of deeper analysis than this.

He doesn't deny or even defend himself here, and actually says that Dunya has a logical case. But his reason for suspecting her is that she normally would put together a more complex case? To me this comes across as Mac trying to deflect rather than engage with Dunya. I'll likely be voting Mac or Epi today.

[reywaS]

JJJ looks like he's forcing the whole super civvie thing in this game. It doesn't look natural like it did in shockheaded peter mafia. in that game his posts sounded like he was running for president of the town. In this game he sounds like he's trying too hard to recreate that.

Im not buying it.

[MacDougall]

Quin is good, unlike the announcements.

I'd rather hear your take on two-bit DF.

I agree with his general sentiment that an isolated "call out" of my mechanics post is a suspicious thing. I direct that at DDL primarily.

DF directed it at nobody and didn't answer me when I asked him to gimme names, so that's bad. I feel no compulsion to call him a civilian.

Sorry for being at work?

I was referring to Epi and Mac, but more so Epi since Mac didn't actually imply that the charting meant that JJJ was bad. These posts from Epi show him suggesting that JJJ's efforts were a Mafia smokescreen:

Literally nobody cares about any of this Day 0. Literally nobody.

That's why civilians lose.

Civilians don't lose because nobody paid attention to chart. You are doing work to do work.

You know what I do when I'm bad? I count on my fingers how many civilians I need to knock off to win. That's a mafia chart.

Jay is more concerned with the setup than with who is bad. I have solved this thing for you.

If Epi can offer evidence that JJJ primarily does this sort of analysis as a baddie but not as a civ I'll reconsider, but as it is I don't buy his reasoning here.

I thought that Epi was doing it as a way to gauge 3J's alignment. No idea about Mac though.

In Mac's case it did come across as trying to discourage JJJ's analysis by making his confusion with JJJ's methods highly visible, but his motive for doing so is harder for me to get a read on than Epi's posts. However I was just going over Mac's posts and this is suspect to me.

no one asked me, but ima go ahead and tell you why i think mac is mafia.

he comes in here to demotivate jjj. he has an issue with jjj taking the leader role. he's vocalizing it to make others aware of these issues he has with jjj. he is trying to renounce jjj's place in the thread. ok...

but then nah, he doesn't wanna take jjj's place after all. he's happy being led. he's happy jjj being himself.

there was no purpose for the former or the latter. when someone comes in strong and then contradicts everything said, it is always a plot to weaken or cause conflict or shake trust in a person. macdougall here was initially trying to take civ jjj off course, and whether he continued or not, the posts are there. they have already garnered agreement from at least 2 other people. there is purpose behind every post, especially one that criticizes another player's playing style, and especially when macdougall is no newbie to jjj or his playstyle. it gets old ya know. the pocketing approach may have worked in ass-class, but it wouldn't work in any game i'm in.

This is all very basic analysis from someone with an intuition based game. You're bad because you picked the most logical case to put together that you could see, when ordinarily you are capable of deeper analysis than this.

He doesn't deny or even defend himself here, and actually says that Dunya has a logical case. But his reason for suspecting her is that she normally would put together a more complex case? To me this comes across as Mac trying to deflect rather than engage with Dunya. I'll likely be voting Mac or Epi today.

[dunya]

[VOTE: dunya] aubergine

[VOTE: novaselinenever] aubergine

Gave her a whole three hours to respond, did you?

I don't feel like waiting for the sun to reach Europe. She'll respond anyway.

The vote itself didn't surprise me, but this did. Since when do you vote for someone on day 1 for their reaction alone? That isn't like you at all. And not what I assumed your vote was about.

I wouldn't ordinarily ask this of your first vote, but since it was there for only 2 hours (3-5am my time) I would like to know what inspired it and what inspired you to move so quickly?

[dunya]

if macdougall was town, he'd be trying to make sure it was civ-jjj leading the thread and get into some tag team action with him imo. i am most unimpressed with his contributions, even for a day 0, that he spent his time complaining and then taking it back--and that is all he contributed. nahw. even for a tuesday afternoon, dats weak sauce.

I have done this maybe a grand total of ONCE in all my time playing Mafia. Jay can attest.

Are you saying you never try to gleam of Jay is town?

[MacDougall]

Me taking an adversarial position towards Jay early on day 0 is about as common as a Pidgey on Route 1.

[dunya]

I dont like how long it's taking Jay to "explain" what he "means" to people. That's at least twice or three times I've seen it and we've just begun day 1. Makes the content look more staged and less spontaneous, heat of the moment feelings.

[dunya]

Quin is good, unlike the announcements.

I'd rather hear your take on two-bit DF.

I agree with his general sentiment that an isolated "call out" of my mechanics post is a suspicious thing. I direct that at DDL primarily.

DF directed it at nobody and didn't answer me when I asked him to gimme names, so that's bad. I feel no compulsion to call him a civilian.

Sorry for being at work?

I was referring to Epi and Mac, but more so Epi since Mac didn't actually imply that the charting meant that JJJ was bad. These posts from Epi show him suggesting that JJJ's efforts were a Mafia smokescreen:

Literally nobody cares about any of this Day 0. Literally nobody.

That's why civilians lose.

Civilians don't lose because nobody paid attention to chart. You are doing work to do work.

You know what I do when I'm bad? I count on my fingers how many civilians I need to knock off to win. That's a mafia chart.

Jay is more concerned with the setup than with who is bad. I have solved this thing for you.

If Epi can offer evidence that JJJ primarily does this sort of analysis as a baddie but not as a civ I'll reconsider, but as it is I don't buy his reasoning here.

I thought that Epi was doing it as a way to gauge 3J's alignment. No idea about Mac though.

In Mac's case it did come across as trying to discourage JJJ's analysis by making his confusion with JJJ's methods highly visible, but his motive for doing so is harder for me to get a read on than Epi's posts. However I was just going over Mac's posts and this is suspect to me.

no one asked me, but ima go ahead and tell you why i think mac is mafia.

he comes in here to demotivate jjj. he has an issue with jjj taking the leader role. he's vocalizing it to make others aware of these issues he has with jjj. he is trying to renounce jjj's place in the thread. ok...

but then nah, he doesn't wanna take jjj's place after all. he's happy being led. he's happy jjj being himself.

there was no purpose for the former or the latter. when someone comes in strong and then contradicts everything said, it is always a plot to weaken or cause conflict or shake trust in a person. macdougall here was initially trying to take civ jjj off course, and whether he continued or not, the posts are there. they have already garnered agreement from at least 2 other people. there is purpose behind every post, especially one that criticizes another player's playing style, and especially when macdougall is no newbie to jjj or his playstyle. it gets old ya know. the pocketing approach may have worked in ass-class, but it wouldn't work in any game i'm in.

This is all very basic analysis from someone with an intuition based game. You're bad because you picked the most logical case to put together that you could see, when ordinarily you are capable of deeper analysis than this.

He doesn't deny or even defend himself here, and actually says that Dunya has a logical case. But his reason for suspecting her is that she normally would put together a more complex case? To me this comes across as Mac trying to deflect rather than engage with Dunya. I'll likely be voting Mac or Epi today.

It's a good observation made my someone who doesn't even know my playstyle. My entire mafia career has been haunted with my over-hyped "intuition" tbh and then not being able to translate that into a case. You contradict yourself when you said you were expecting more intuition and then expecting deeper analysis...

[dunya]

I still feel good about Quin. I'm gleaming genu-quin in his spitfire.

[dunya]

agreeable. and can i ask why you townread epi?

He's one of few that seems to be working the thread in such a way that it can promote civilian productivity beyond just present reads.

Can you give me just a couple of examples of instances where he promoted civilian productivity beyond present reads?

[dunya]

[VOTE: ddl] aubergine

Right now I'd feel good about a DDL or colonialbob lynch.

I don't think DDL and Mac are w/w. I am satisfied with Mac for now. I am not satisfied with DDL.

There's something very unnatural in the flow of colonialbob's posts. It doesn't really spark joy.

I'm back to work. See you guys soon.

[colonialbob]

Are you saying J is hiding behind mechanics talk?

I've decided I don't care for this. The question seems rather pointless, as DDL clearly indicated that the parallel he was drawing regarding my mechanics post was to his own behavior as a bad guy. So whether I'm "hiding" or not, it's a definite accusation.

Sure, but I care about the reason of the accusation more than the accusation itself. "I make big mechanics posts to seem like I'm busy day 1 when I am bad -> j made a big mechanics post day 1 -> j is trying to seem busy -> j is bad" is a train of thought that only works if you're "trying to seem busy" which the amount of other posts you've made put to bed. If the reason behind making mechanics posts when bad isn't to appear busy but is instead some other reason (e.g. "early civs are focused on hunting while mafia don't have to hunt and thus focus on mechanics") then the suspicion reads much more genuine.

[colonialbob]

JJJ looks like he's forcing the whole super civvie thing in this game. It doesn't look natural like it did in shockheaded peter mafia. in that game his posts sounded like he was running for president of the town. In this game he sounds like he's trying too hard to recreate that.

Im not buying it.

What about it feels fake?

[MacDougall]

Quin is good, unlike the announcements.

I'd rather hear your take on two-bit DF.

I agree with his general sentiment that an isolated "call out" of my mechanics post is a suspicious thing. I direct that at DDL primarily.

DF directed it at nobody and didn't answer me when I asked him to gimme names, so that's bad. I feel no compulsion to call him a civilian.

Sorry for being at work?

I was referring to Epi and Mac, but more so Epi since Mac didn't actually imply that the charting meant that JJJ was bad. These posts from Epi show him suggesting that JJJ's efforts were a Mafia smokescreen:

That's why civilians lose.

Civilians don't lose because nobody paid attention to chart. You are doing work to do work.

You know what I do when I'm bad? I count on my fingers how many civilians I need to knock off to win. That's a mafia chart.

Jay is more concerned with the setup than with who is bad. I have solved this thing for you.

If Epi can offer evidence that JJJ primarily does this sort of analysis as a baddie but not as a civ I'll reconsider, but as it is I don't buy his reasoning here.

I thought that Epi was doing it as a way to gauge 3J's alignment. No idea about Mac though.

In Mac's case it did come across as trying to discourage JJJ's analysis by making his confusion with JJJ's methods highly visible, but his motive for doing so is harder for me to get a read on than Epi's posts. However I was just going over Mac's posts and this is suspect to me.

no one asked me, but ima go ahead and tell you why i think mac is mafia.

he comes in here to demotivate jjj. he has an issue with jjj taking the leader role. he's vocalizing it to make others aware of these issues he has with jjj. he is trying to renounce jjj's place in the thread. ok...

but then nah, he doesn't wanna take jjj's place after all. he's happy being led. he's happy jjj being himself.

there was no purpose for the former or the latter. when someone comes in strong and then contradicts everything said, it is always a plot to weaken or cause conflict or shake trust in a person. macdougall here was initially trying to take civ jjj off course, and whether he continued or not, the posts are there. they have already garnered agreement from at least 2 other people. there is purpose behind every post, especially one that criticizes another player's playing style, and especially when macdougall is no newbie to jjj or his playstyle. it gets old ya know. the pocketing approach may have worked in ass-class, but it wouldn't work in any game i'm in.

This is all very basic analysis from someone with an intuition based game. You're bad because you picked the most logical case to put together that you could see, when ordinarily you are capable of deeper analysis than this.

He doesn't deny or even defend himself here, and actually says that Dunya has a logical case. But his reason for suspecting her is that she normally would put together a more complex case? To me this comes across as Mac trying to deflect rather than engage with Dunya. I'll likely be voting Mac or Epi today.

It's a good observation made my someone who doesn't even know my playstyle. My entire mafia career has been haunted with my over-hyped "intuition" tbh and then not being able to translate that into a case. You contradict yourself when you said you were expecting more intuition and then expecting deeper analysis...

You're either mafia or you are on some new mediciation that has altered your personality.

[dunya]

well, I'm not on any medication and I'm not mafia. find a third hypothesis.

I'm moving my vote to MacDougall, because of his handling of Jay and responses to any criticism thrown towards him so far. I don't like the deflective attitude.

[dunya]

I think the likelihood DDL and cbob are w/w are low, based on DDL's "random bad scum read" post, in which he called colonialbob bad. it would be ballsy if they were w/w, not impossible, I just find it less likely to be the case.

[dunya]

i'm not feeling the DFaraday suspicions. i've never played with them before, and would rather prefer to see what they have to offer as they get into the flow of the game personally.

[dunya]

i'd love to hear more from the people who haven't talked much yet (coliniscool, novaselinenever, reywaS, and DF to some extent as well as DDL). glad we have a 48hr start on day 1.

[dunya]

i lied, i'm moving my vote to JJJ until he can convince me he's a civilian because i'm not feeling any oomph from him which was present in his last performance, and he's acted in several ways that don't make sense to me. he may be asking the right questions, but i don't feel like there's been direct purpose or aim. for a game with so much roleplay, I expected another Jerry Seinfeld but instead got a deflated dean who seems lost in a relatively timid thread.

i still got my eyeballs on you, maccy-mac-man.

[dunya]

current rainbow. i feel good about epignosis most, followed by sabie and quin at equal levels i'd say. i haven't seen enough content from dfaraday but nothing has pinged me.

i need more content from nova, coliniscool hasn't posted yet and reywaS did that one post that pinged me where he complained about someone's play style but then took it back at the end...which i think is demotivating and purposeless. need to see more "game-related" content from him.

the last 4 are people i have reasons to feel iffy about. let's see what happens this day phase.

dunya
Epignosis
sabie12
Quin
DFaraday
novaselinenever
ColinIsCool
reywaS
colonialbob
Macdougall
Dragon D. Luffy
JaggedJimmyJay

[dunya]

my cbob read is gut. i just feel like something is missing from his usual curious and purposeful tone.

macdougall and jjj i've already touched on in the thread. i don't even like the nova vote jjj has right now.

DDL i also didn't see real purpose in his posting. now that i've seen his iso again, i have to apologize for confusing cbob with reywas. so ddl and cbob can still be w/w; ddl threw his random bad read on reywas so i wouldn't call ddl and reywas w/w, especially when he followed it up by randomly picking up one of reywas' few posts and trying to elaborate on his read. seemed really made up. and i dunno, i felt like he came in to try and throw holes at sabie but completely dropped it. he made posts, and they weren't based on much with no follow up or continuation and i don't like that stuff where i can't find reason behind why something was done or said.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

i lied, i'm moving my vote to JJJ until he can convince me he's a civilian because i'm not feeling any oomph from him which was present in his last performance, and he's acted in several ways that don't make sense to me. he may be asking the right questions, but i don't feel like there's been direct purpose or aim. for a game with so much roleplay, I expected another Jerry Seinfeld but instead got a deflated dean who seems lost in a relatively timid thread.

i still got my eyeballs on you, maccy-mac-man.

This is a prime example of a “victim of one’s own success”. There are games where my civilian character is blindingly obvious. They’re the easiest ones to remember. Nobody remembers my civilian games that come in a more wrankled form (even though they are more numerous). I am not a one-trick, one-personality robot. Energy varies. My confidence in my reads varies. My satisfaction with thread climates varies. These and countless other variables impact my demeanor and my approach.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I dont like how long it's taking Jay to "explain" what he "means" to people. That's at least twice or three times I've seen it and we've just begun day 1. Makes the content look more staged and less spontaneous, heat of the moment feelings.

I don’t care what looks staged. Sometimes I want to wait for others to pipe in before I expand on things. In the case of Quin, I opted for roleplay initially and later decided I should tell him what I mean.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

JJJ looks like he's forcing the whole super civvie thing in this game. It doesn't look natural like it did in shockheaded peter mafia. in that game his posts sounded like he was running for president of the town. In this game he sounds like he's trying too hard to recreate that.

Im not buying it.

You’re right that I am forcing things, but not what I am forcing or why.

rey is a civilian.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You called me bad because I gave an opinion and asked a question and didn't come out of that with a read on the person I was talking to (which actually isn't true to begin with - read the post). You may as well have said you suspected me for talking.

Maybe 'contradiction' was the wrong word. The point was it's a dumb thing to say on your part because not every exchange is *going* to end in a read and the King of Fuck Mountain who has a 2 page long conversation with every living player every day phase should know that better than anybody.

I haven't watched Community, but I'm gonna guess Dean is a vegetarian because this beef is fake as hell.

Every exchange I have does end in a read. I don’t know why you keep drawing comparisons to me; I am irrelevant. I reviewed your initial few posts and took an immediate stance on a rainbow. Then when dunya asked I explained one grievance. You responded with loud, ridiculous language. That is what I’ve taken issue with since. You’re not properly representing the beef as you criticize it.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Are you saying J is hiding behind mechanics talk?

I've decided I don't care for this. The question seems rather pointless, as DDL clearly indicated that the parallel he was drawing regarding my mechanics post was to his own behavior as a bad guy. So whether I'm "hiding" or not, it's a definite accusation.

Sure, but I care about the reason of the accusation more than the accusation itself. "I make big mechanics posts to seem like I'm busy day 1 when I am bad -> j made a big mechanics post day 1 -> j is trying to seem busy -> j is bad" is a train of thought that only works if you're "trying to seem busy" which the amount of other posts you've made put to bed. If the reason behind making mechanics posts when bad isn't to appear busy but is instead some other reason (e.g. "early civs are focused on hunting while mafia don't have to hunt and thus focus on mechanics") then the suspicion reads much more genuine.

bob is a civilian.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

We’re off to a much better start today.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

wrankled, rankled, i dean't care

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The vote itself didn't surprise me, but this did. Since when do you vote for someone on day 1 for their reaction alone? That isn't like you at all. And not what I assumed your vote was about.

I wouldn't ordinarily ask this of your first vote, but since it was there for only 2 hours (3-5am my time) I would like to know what inspired it and what inspired you to move so quickly?

Orange = this isn't actually true, which should be evident from what followed in the thread. I got a reaction from someone other than you and made note of that.

Green = the vote didn't have some grand underlying purpose. I felt like doing it, so I did it. Then later, I felt like voting for nova. So I did it. Why did I feel like voting for you in general terms? There are some reads you've made that I don't entirely buy -- your suspicion of people for dragging me down earlier seems as much a "buddy Jay" as a "suspect X". You know well from your own experience that we can draw criticism and antagonism for the mere act of trying to win. We've jointly voiced our frustration with that more than once (primarily in the face of people complaining about how much we've posted). Moreover, your suspicion of me in this early phase recalls in some ways your conduct to start Fire Emblem. I looked back at your posts in that game, saw more similarities than I thought I'd see, and said "okay gonna stick a vote on dunya, feck it".

Your present suspicion of me also comes with expectations that I think you'd view as unfair if anyone directed the same accusations at you. Maintaining the highest standard in every game is impossible.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Literally nobody cares about any of this Day 0. Literally nobody.

That's why civilians lose.

I dunno, filling the thread with this sort of stuff on day 0 might help you but it just makes the thread a more challenging read for me. Can't speak for the world though.

totes agree with you here. i prefer my day 0s less text wall'y and technical. the game/player breakdowns are fine, but when i get overwhelmed reading on day 0s and sometimes day 1s i tend to lose interest in the game. Not always of course.

"totally agree with guy who people are already calling bad because his posts have just been about complaining JJJ is doing work, but I need to add on how I don't like day 0 activity. Ok I've done my work see you tomorrow"

This post bugs me. Why does it matter that rey voiced agreement with someone other people were calling bad? What is that yellow thing?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Quin is good, unlike the announcements.

I'd rather hear your take on two-bit DF.

I want to hear your take on DF in more thorough terms than you've already provided.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

agreeable. and can i ask why you townread epi?

He's one of few that seems to be working the thread in such a way that it can promote civilian productivity beyond just present reads.

Can you give me just a couple of examples of instances where he promoted civilian productivity beyond present reads?

He keeps throwing shit in the thread that has a good chance of inciting dialogue that can expand quickly or generate stances ("JJJ and dunya are mafia teammates", shitting in my cornflakes in other isolated moments). In recent memory these have been token for him in his civilian body.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

DDL beefs

Spoiler: show

Numbers consciousness starting platform:

With 12 players to start and the setup closed, there are numerous potential alignment ratios:

A - 9 vs. 3
B - 9 vs. 2 vs./plus 1
C - 8 vs. 2 vs./plus 1 vs./plus 1
D - 8 vs. 3 vs./plus 1

There are other possibilities, but I think these are the four likely by a wide margin. Based on my own intuitions about balance (some of which I think Sloonei would share given his similar background), I'd rank them as follows by probability: B > A > C > D. This is a theme which lends itself nicely to independents, but that may not matter with the characters and alignments randomized (i.e. Chang isn't automatically a serial killer or something).

Either 9 vs. 3 or 8 vs. 2 allows two mislynches before a MyLo (assuming nightly kills of one civilian and not accounting for unknown indy variables). 9 vs. 2 allows 3 mislynches. For now I recommend a worst-case projection of 2 available mislyches. As such, POE work has to be quite expedient in this game to have a chance of working effectively. A pool of 4 or 5 is already necessary on Day 0, and that means the civilians need to make themselves visible. "Cards close to chest" and "exclusively roleplay in every post without regard for the hunt" are thus strategies which can lose the game on their own if employed irresponsibly -- that'll place people into POE pools by default.

Role abilities will likely matter at some point, but I refuse to wait for that. Everyone is vanilla. Find the bad guys, or find so many good guys that you don't need to.

You know what this reminds me of? That big role list I made in a World Asunder.

I was bad.

Quite frankly I figured someone would say something like this when I made that post. It's so token as to be caricature.

Spoiler: show

Really? Because if I had to wait 6 years to be mafia again I'd be like

Apparently it's been four. What do you think of sabie?

She's completely different from what I'm used to, which has always been civ. So GTH she's bad.

But GTH sucks and fails to consider she is obviously roleplaying, so more like neutral from now.

This looks like a fake read on two levels:

1. I don't buy that sabie looks "completely different" from what DDL is used to. That is the opposite of a mind-meld for me; she looks quite herself I think.

2. Forcing a GTH read and then immediately discarding it is pointless nothing. A neutral read is also dubious following the prior assertion.

Spoiler: show

You know what this reminds me of? That big role list I made in a World Asunder.

I was bad.

That's cool. If you're a civilian though make sure you pay attention to what I said whether you buy me or not. It's important.

It's interesting speculation but the conclusion isn't any different from what we are all supposed to be doing already: lynch mafia and not lynch town.

No shit. This suggests to me that DDL didn't process my post to any real depth beyond "I can make an accusation about this."

Spoiler: show

She's completely different from what I'm used to, which has always been civ. So GTH she's bad.

But GTH sucks and fails to consider she is obviously roleplaying, so more like neutral from now.

What is completely different about her?

Normally I'm expecting a single, 8 line paragraph on how she is unsure about a bunch of different topics.

This is so specific that I struggle to believe it.

Spoiler: show

Reywas is bad.

I wanna join the "baseless unexplained day 0 alignment call" thing too.

The second post renders the first worthless.

I just mentioned this one earlier --- here

Spoiler: show

Are you saying J is hiding behind mechanics talk?

Maybe

There's no emoji available to mimic the face I make when I look at this post. Kobe is close:



[VOTE: Dragon D. Luffy] aubergine

[dunya]

Orange = this isn't actually true, which should be evident from what followed in the thread. I got a reaction from someone other than you and made note of that.

i think it is true. no one reacted to your dunya vote. Epignosis' reaction was after you removed your vote off me and onto novaselinenever. you had no idea anyone was going to react to your dunya vote past the event. saying you expected it and it happened is reaching imo. and it isn't about the vote itself, it's about your defence when questioned about it by Epignosis that got to me. it made it seem like you were fishing for a reaction from me (and were still expecting it later) at 3am-5am, but then decided i wasn't worth the wait, parked yourself on nova instead who is for the most part mia, and called it a night with your vote moves. it was weird to me, it still is. i don't really get it. i don't feel like you would have voted for me in particular for fleeting reasons and it feels hollow is what i mean.

Green = the vote didn't have some grand underlying purpose. I felt like doing it, so I did it. Then later, I felt like voting for nova. So I did it. Why did I feel like voting for you in general terms? There are some reads you've made that I don't entirely buy -- your suspicion of people for dragging me down earlier seems as much a "buddy Jay" as a "suspect X". You know well from your own experience that we can draw criticism and antagonism for the mere act of trying to win. We've jointly voiced our frustration with that more than once (primarily in the face of people complaining about how much we've posted). Moreover, your suspicion of me in this early phase recalls in some ways your conduct to start Fire Emblem. I looked back at your posts in that game, saw more similarities than I thought I'd see, and said "okay gonna stick a vote on dunya, feck it".

i don't understand, did your vote have underlying purpose or didn't it?

i dislike anyone criticizing someone's playstyle. i've made that clear in almost every game i've ever been in. it pisses me off endlessly when people complain about how someone chooses to play a game, especially in regards to post-count because it's demotivational on a personal level. they think it's an offhand remark; i think it makes me feel awkward and unable to be myself which of course inadvertently affects my playstyle. i wasn't buddying you; i was defending your playstyle (and mine) and anyone who criticizes other people on that front. i'm just tired of this happening and want it to stop.

Your present suspicion of me also comes with expectations that I think you'd view as unfair if anyone directed the same accusations at you. Maintaining the highest standard in every game is impossible.

no. even if i remove the "jay isn't displaying the same oomph he did in the other game" (which i apologize for, you're right that's a bullshit reason and high expectations are a drag on one's motivation in the first place), you've done some things that seem unlike you. your tone with the thread is more reserved and laid back, your tone and interactions with me are extremely mellow and toned down. whenever we've been civ-on-civ in the past and i've flung shit your way, you've started a storm. of course i'm going to notice these differences. just as you pay me more regard after my fire emblem game, i pay you just as much regard in your scum game. some of your queries feel open ended, like you're asking for the sake of filling some "question quota" than actual intel. if i feel something is off, i'll note it. i won't ignore anything in front of my nose just cos i want you to be civ.

[dunya]

Quite frankly I figured someone would say something like this when I made that post. It's so token as to be caricature.

you know what, i like this part. let me mull on it.

[dunya]

Spoiler: show

She's completely different from what I'm used to, which has always been civ. So GTH she's bad.

But GTH sucks and fails to consider she is obviously roleplaying, so more like neutral from now.

What is completely different about her?

Normally I'm expecting a single, 8 line paragraph on how she is unsure about a bunch of different topics.

This is so specific that I struggle to believe it.

i can see why it feels fabricated, but is it an accurate representation of sabie outside roleplay? i checked the ongoing game and can see a lot of variety in her posts, more beefy content as the game progressed. we won't talk about that now since we don't know her alignment and the game is ongoing.

then i checked a world asunder and honestly, i did see more beefy content as a whole from her there. the observation isn't completely unwarranted for someone who's played with her in a few games recently. but it was day 0. she was role playing a character she loves in a show she expressed genuine excitement about even in the sign up thread. and she did have a funeral and personal reasons yesterday. the question is would she use roleplay to mask discomfort at being given a scum role or not?

as much as i'd like to give ddl shit for that, i don't think it was a bad observation. i just dislike how he made it, and tried to get it to stick, then pulled out of it.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

i think it is true. no one reacted to your dunya vote. Epignosis' reaction was after you removed your vote off me and onto novaselinenever. you had no idea anyone was going to react to your dunya vote past the event. saying you expected it and it happened is reaching imo. and it isn't about the vote itself, it's about your defence when questioned about it by Epignosis that got to me. it made it seem like you were fishing for a reaction from me (and were still expecting it later) at 3am-5am, but then decided i wasn't worth the wait, parked yourself on nova instead who is for the most part mia, and called it a night with your vote moves. it was weird to me, it still is. i don't really get it. i don't feel like you would have voted for me in particular for fleeting reasons and it feels hollow is what i mean.

Getting a reaction from dunya is one of numerous potential results for a random vote on dunya. Epi's accusation on that front lacked respect for that (which I suspect he knows and didn't care about in the moment, to his credit). I answered him with the same specificity suited to his question. He asked about you and I answered about you.

i don't understand, did your vote have underlying purpose or didn't it?

It had a purpose, but the purpose wasn't grand. Like I said, I felt like it in a whim. There's also always potential for conversation to spring at some point from someone: "you said dunya was green in yer rainbow but now you voted what that Jay what that?!?!" so no harm in giving it a go.

no. even if i remove the "jay isn't displaying the same oomph he did in the other game" (which i apologize for, you're right that's a bullshit reason and high expectations are a drag on one's motivation in the first place), you've done some things that seem unlike you. your tone with the thread is more reserved and laid back, your tone and interactions with me are extremely mellow and toned down. whenever we've been civ-on-civ in the past and i've flung shit your way, you've started a storm. of course i'm going to notice these differences. just as you pay me more regard after my fire emblem game, i pay you just as much regard in your scum game. some of your queries feel open ended, like you're asking for the sake of filling some "question quota" than actual intel. if i feel something is off, i'll note it. i won't ignore anything in front of my nose just cos i want you to be civ.

That's fine. Poke and prod as you please. I have done and will continue doing the same. I've tried to describe some reasons why I might "seem unlike me", because I recognize the differences too (or at least some of them). I'm really not concerned about that.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Quin is town. This is genuquin all the way.

I like Mac but I'm trying not to be biased since he's defending me. But I'll go with town.

Epi is alright.

Jay is probably town because he is posting like a maniac and if he's bad I'm never letting him use that high poster theory of his again.

I find myself agreeing with Epi's post about DF. His post blaming people for going after Jay but citing no names is opportunistic af. He's bad.

Reywas remains not giving me a reason not to vote him.

I find myself agreeing with Mac's dunya case but this could be one instance where low free time/being rusty could change her playstyle. Will stay observing for now.

Bob's point on Epi's gifs makes sense. Don't have a read on him but just wanna disagree with people who say it doesn't make sense.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Me taking an adversarial position towards Jay early on day 0 is about as common as a Pidgey on Route 1.

Add this to the next sockys plz

[Dragon D. Luffy]

It's a good observation made my someone who doesn't even know my playstyle. My entire mafia career has been haunted with my over-hyped "intuition" tbh and then not being able to translate that into a case. You contradict yourself when you said you were expecting more intuition and then expecting deeper analysis...

I'm not gonna judge the quality of your intuition (which, for the record, is amazing), but whether you are trying to use it or not. And you're not.

Normally you come here and start calling everyone's alignments for reasons we can barely understand. You just yell "Of course, X is obviously civ/bad, I can feel it!"

Your cases in this game read like something *I* would write. Because I'm not an intuition based player, I'm an overly rational guy who sucks at reading people and works better when there is information or strategy to analyse. You are writing the kind of pseudo-rational babble I usually make to attempt to do work on Day 1, and is barely right more often than not.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I think the likelihood DDL and cbob are w/w are low, based on DDL's "random bad scum read" post, in which he called colonialbob bad. it would be ballsy if they were w/w, not impossible, I just find it less likely to be the case.

Wait, I did?