
Vault Hunt [Game Over]
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- novaselinenever
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Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
Haven't heard much from Sabie 

- sabie12
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Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
So out of the options of people who have votes its mac or Luna. Since we need a majority vote its better if we can come to an agreement. Mac has 3 posts that basically are him claiming he is civ and telling me that his weird exchange with nova doesn't mean anything then he voted for me. Regardless of the vote being for me I find it odd that he's so blah and uninvolved.
Luna mostly has been talking about whether people should role claim which I feel like it's been established role claims are pretty sketchy in this set up.
I guess I'm going to vote mac at the moment. His only reason voting me is that I questioned him because I thought the exchange between him and nova was a little weird. Like both assuming they know what alignment the other is. If that's just a joke or whatever why not just say that?
I have an appointment so may not be around for a little bit. Willing to listen to other cases if something comes up.
Luna mostly has been talking about whether people should role claim which I feel like it's been established role claims are pretty sketchy in this set up.
I guess I'm going to vote mac at the moment. His only reason voting me is that I questioned him because I thought the exchange between him and nova was a little weird. Like both assuming they know what alignment the other is. If that's just a joke or whatever why not just say that?
I have an appointment so may not be around for a little bit. Willing to listen to other cases if something comes up.
Sometimes life does seem all planned out, like there's no choice in the matter. But that's just an illusion.
~Darren Shan~

~Darren Shan~

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Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
You posted that as I was typing my post. I work a crazy job and then do gaming and things after work so I'm not always around to post a lot.
Sometimes life does seem all planned out, like there's no choice in the matter. But that's just an illusion.
~Darren Shan~

~Darren Shan~

- novaselinenever
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Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
What did you find weird about the exchange between Mac and I?sabie12 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:35 pm So out of the options of people who have votes its mac or Luna. Since we need a majority vote its better if we can come to an agreement. Mac has 3 posts that basically are him claiming he is civ and telling me that his weird exchange with nova doesn't mean anything then he voted for me. Regardless of the vote being for me I find it odd that he's so blah and uninvolved.
Luna mostly has been talking about whether people should role claim which I feel like it's been established role claims are pretty sketchy in this set up.
I guess I'm going to vote mac at the moment. His only reason voting me is that I questioned him because I thought the exchange between him and nova was a little weird. Like both assuming they know what alignment the other is. If that's just a joke or whatever why not just say that?
I have an appointment so may not be around for a little bit. Willing to listen to other cases if something comes up.
You're mostly narrating what Luna has done so far, I'd rather hear your thoughts about her.
Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
My "caught-up" opinions on everyone:
Spacedaisy - despite the "weird vibe" popular opinion on spacedaisy, I actually think she looks town. mechanics posts can be town, and I like that she wrote all that out while learning the roles (I will read it eventually, promise).
novaselinenever - I think nova is winning the "highest poster" award. His questions and interactions look town to me.
nutella - is trying to stay active (even while in Japan), and is voting me, so she's either town, or trying really hard to correct her scum meta of never suspecting me.
juliets - looks town (as always). She also paid a lot of attention to Daisy's "long" post, but I don't know if she actually read or responded to it.
Muriel - still absent?
jackofhearts2005 - is just casually throwing out opinions and suspects, but none of them feel serious yet.
sabie12 - looks like typical sabie, but also is "no u" voting suspecting mac
muugen - jumped in late and made a "catch-up" post which honestly just seems to parrot the opinions of the thread.
sprityo - is not quite ready to "supatown" or contribute too much yet.
Neverwhere - looks like they are struggling to find something to contribute while at the same time acknowledging they are not really contributing
Epignosis - lazy poster, and currently suspects juliets because she "looks like she did in Addams family mafia when she was scum"
Macdougall - in only three posts he both claims to not be a witch and know that nova is also not a witch, and shoo sabie off for questioning it.
Conclusion: [VOTE: lynch Macdougall] aubergine, [VOTE: Lunalee gets Butt Stallion!] aubergine (despite some of you looking town, I'd still rather have it)
Spacedaisy - despite the "weird vibe" popular opinion on spacedaisy, I actually think she looks town. mechanics posts can be town, and I like that she wrote all that out while learning the roles (I will read it eventually, promise).
novaselinenever - I think nova is winning the "highest poster" award. His questions and interactions look town to me.
nutella - is trying to stay active (even while in Japan), and is voting me, so she's either town, or trying really hard to correct her scum meta of never suspecting me.
juliets - looks town (as always). She also paid a lot of attention to Daisy's "long" post, but I don't know if she actually read or responded to it.
Muriel - still absent?
jackofhearts2005 - is just casually throwing out opinions and suspects, but none of them feel serious yet.
sabie12 - looks like typical sabie, but also is "no u" voting suspecting mac
muugen - jumped in late and made a "catch-up" post which honestly just seems to parrot the opinions of the thread.
sprityo - is not quite ready to "supatown" or contribute too much yet.
Neverwhere - looks like they are struggling to find something to contribute while at the same time acknowledging they are not really contributing
Epignosis - lazy poster, and currently suspects juliets because she "looks like she did in Addams family mafia when she was scum"
Macdougall - in only three posts he both claims to not be a witch and know that nova is also not a witch, and shoo sabie off for questioning it.
Conclusion: [VOTE: lynch Macdougall] aubergine, [VOTE: Lunalee gets Butt Stallion!] aubergine (despite some of you looking town, I'd still rather have it)
Luna's Wins/Losses
Spoiler: show
Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
also, forgot to note but my list is ordered from "most town vibe" at the top to "least town vibe" at the bottom.
Luna's Wins/Losses
Spoiler: show
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Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
Rainbow this list please. I like shiny colorsLunalee wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:08 pm My "caught-up" opinions on everyone:
Spacedaisy - despite the "weird vibe" popular opinion on spacedaisy, I actually think she looks town. mechanics posts can be town, and I like that she wrote all that out while learning the roles (I will read it eventually, promise).
novaselinenever - I think nova is winning the "highest poster" award. His questions and interactions look town to me.
nutella - is trying to stay active (even while in Japan), and is voting me, so she's either town, or trying really hard to correct her scum meta of never suspecting me.
juliets - looks town (as always). She also paid a lot of attention to Daisy's "long" post, but I don't know if she actually read or responded to it.
Muriel - still absent?
jackofhearts2005 - is just casually throwing out opinions and suspects, but none of them feel serious yet.
sabie12 - looks like typical sabie, but also is "no u" voting suspecting mac
muugen - jumped in late and made a "catch-up" post which honestly just seems to parrot the opinions of the thread.
sprityo - is not quite ready to "supatown" or contribute too much yet.
Neverwhere - looks like they are struggling to find something to contribute while at the same time acknowledging they are not really contributing
Epignosis - lazy poster, and currently suspects juliets because she "looks like she did in Addams family mafia when she was scum"
Macdougall - in only three posts he both claims to not be a witch and know that nova is also not a witch, and shoo sabie off for questioning it.
Conclusion: [VOTE: lynch Macdougall] aubergine, [VOTE: Lunalee gets Butt Stallion!] aubergine (despite some of you looking town, I'd still rather have it)

- novaselinenever
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Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
Why are you putting weird vibe in quotation mark? lol
- novaselinenever
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Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
The quotation marks on none quotes are weirding me out.
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Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
[mention]Lunalee[/mention], yes I did read Daisy's entire post and looked back at the roles to see what she was talking about. I didn't respond because I boiled it down to two things she was asking town about and then it looked like both of those things she or someone else had thought of reasons why they didn't work. I did like the clown idea but iirc she came up with a reason why that wouldn't work - a reason I can't remember. I'll look back to jog my memory. I think you'll see what I mean when you read it and break it down.
Spoiler: show
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Re: Vault Hunt [Day 0]
This was the post where she decided the clown idea might not be the best. Now that I look at it again I do have a questions though. Daisy, why would it be obvious which target is Mordecai's? Or maybe someone else can answer it if Daisy is not around.
Spacedaisy wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:12 am Oh I thought of a flaw in the idea of directing the clown’s target for Lilith, but I’m not sure it makes enough of a difference to outweigh the benefit. If we direct the clown’s target by public thread, and Lilith uses it then it will be obvious which target is Lilith’s andwhich is Mordecai’s. Is this a big enough drawback to make it a bad plan? Input please.
Spoiler: show
Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
sorry, I should have made it colorful.novaselinenever wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:18 pmOh I missed this, so no need for the rainbow![]()
What do you think about Epi's suspicion of Juliets? Anything else on Epi than "lazy"?

Epi's suspicion of Juliets looks like it could be a genuine suspicion, but one he didn't have to do much to arrive at. Her response to his suspicion though makes her look good.
Luna's Wins/Losses
Spoiler: show
Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
good to know, thanks!juliets wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:18 pm @Lunalee, yes I did read Daisy's entire post and looked back at the roles to see what she was talking about. I didn't respond because I boiled it down to two things she was asking town about and then it looked like both of those things she or someone else had thought of reasons why they didn't work. I did like the clown idea but iirc she came up with a reason why that wouldn't work - a reason I can't remember. I'll look back to jog my memory. I think you'll see what I mean when you read it and break it down.
Luna's Wins/Losses
Spoiler: show
- sabie12
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Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
You said you were hoping he was bad and then he was like nah and neither are you. It was just weird to me. I guess I'm the only one who thought it was.novaselinenever wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:39 pmWhat did you find weird about the exchange between Mac and I?sabie12 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:35 pm So out of the options of people who have votes its mac or Luna. Since we need a majority vote its better if we can come to an agreement. Mac has 3 posts that basically are him claiming he is civ and telling me that his weird exchange with nova doesn't mean anything then he voted for me. Regardless of the vote being for me I find it odd that he's so blah and uninvolved.
Luna mostly has been talking about whether people should role claim which I feel like it's been established role claims are pretty sketchy in this set up.
I guess I'm going to vote mac at the moment. His only reason voting me is that I questioned him because I thought the exchange between him and nova was a little weird. Like both assuming they know what alignment the other is. If that's just a joke or whatever why not just say that?
I have an appointment so may not be around for a little bit. Willing to listen to other cases if something comes up.
You're mostly narrating what Luna has done so far, I'd rather hear your thoughts about her.
And idk Luna is hard to read. I could see maybe her questions about roleclaiming being because she's bad and would benefit from people claiming but other than that there isnt much else to go on.
I voted mac because out of the current suspicions going around I felt like that was the best option.
Sometimes life does seem all planned out, like there's no choice in the matter. But that's just an illusion.
~Darren Shan~

~Darren Shan~

- Jackofhearts2005
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Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
I mean, yeah, if I was bad, that would certainly explain why the mafia didn’t jump on my vote.novaselinenever wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:34 pmSo you're saying one of you and Mac are bad? Or bothJackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:30 pm Last time I voted Mac without saying why, the mafia exploded. This time, nothing happened. What gives?![]()

Idk if it actually says anything about Mac’s alignment.
Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
Work is plentiful and unpleasant.
What kind of inside knowledge was I trying to get people to believe I had about you? I have no inside knowledge. I got a role and that is all.juliets wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:09 pmI don't know what he means. I look the same at the beginning of every game. He seems to be trying to get people to believe he has some kind of inside knowledge. Maybe he would like to share specifics. I won't tag him because it messes up his browser and he says he reads every post so he'll see this one.novaselinenever wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:59 pmI find myself unimpressed by Luna and Nutella so far. What do you think about Epi's thoughts on you?
linki
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Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
I have a hard non-witchery stance on Spacedaisy.
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Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
Some writers put quotes around words they want to distance themselves from. Quotation marks used this way are commonly called scare quotes or shudder quotes. It’s a way of implying that you’re using a term in an unusual way or that you don’t necessarily approve of it:novaselinenever wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:12 pm Why are you putting weird vibe in quotation mark? lol
Example: This article was written by a “professional” writer.
Luna's Wins/Losses
Spoiler: show
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Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
I totally forgot we were playing majority. We need to have a plan before the last minute. I hate majority in non lylo situations
Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
How can you opine that Spacedaisy is a civilian on the basis of people's reactions to a massive post that you haven't even read?Lunalee wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:08 pm My "caught-up" opinions on everyone:
Spacedaisy - despite the "weird vibe" popular opinion on spacedaisy, I actually think she looks town. mechanics posts can be town, and I like that she wrote all that out while learning the roles (I will read it eventually, promise).

I am far, far, far, far from a lazy poster. That adjective cannot possibly apply to someone who is so busy he is unable to post.
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Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
I’d lynch Luna, Juliets and maybe Sprityo.
That is, I have no real desire to lynch Mac.
That is, I have no real desire to lynch Mac.
Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
This post was written by a "witch."Lunalee wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:43 pmSome writers put quotes around words they want to distance themselves from. Quotation marks used this way are commonly called scare quotes or shudder quotes. It’s a way of implying that you’re using a term in an unusual way or that you don’t necessarily approve of it:novaselinenever wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:12 pm Why are you putting weird vibe in quotation mark? lol
Example: This article was written by a “professional” writer.
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- novaselinenever
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Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
Do you not approve of the terms highest poster and supatown? Or are you mocking us (Spriyo and I)?Lunalee wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:43 pmSome writers put quotes around words they want to distance themselves from. Quotation marks used this way are commonly called scare quotes or shudder quotes. It’s a way of implying that you’re using a term in an unusual way or that you don’t necessarily approve of it:novaselinenever wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:12 pm Why are you putting weird vibe in quotation mark? lol
Example: This article was written by a “professional” writer.

I'm familiar with scare quotes but I'm weirded out by your use of them. Both the targeted terms and the number lol.
- novaselinenever
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Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
Thanks for the link though!
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Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
Supatown I get.
Why is town vibe and not town vibe quoted?
Why is town vibe and not town vibe quoted?
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Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
What's up with Juliets and Sprit?Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:48 pm I’d lynch Luna, Juliets and maybe Sprityo.
That is, I have no real desire to lynch Mac.
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Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
I’ve been looking for the clip from Role Models where Jane Lynch uses air quotes for the phrase “your presence” and Paul Rudd asks her if she’s implying he’s not really here but alas, I can only find the punchline, not the whole joke.
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Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
Juliets does feel like her Adams Family self. I don’t like Sprityo saying he’s gonna supatown and then being like “well not yet.”novaselinenever wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:53 pmWhat's up with Juliets and Sprit?Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:48 pm I’d lynch Luna, Juliets and maybe Sprityo.
That is, I have no real desire to lynch Mac.
Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:48 pm I’d lynch Luna, Juliets and maybe Sprityo.
That is, I have no real desire to lynch Mac.

Luna's Wins/Losses
Spoiler: show
Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
I didn't think that hard about it while typing. but highest poster feels like a title, and hence the quote, and supatown was a phase sprityo used himself, hence the quote.novaselinenever wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:50 pmDo you not approve of the terms highest poster and supatown? Or are you mocking us (Spriyo and I)?Lunalee wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:43 pmSome writers put quotes around words they want to distance themselves from. Quotation marks used this way are commonly called scare quotes or shudder quotes. It’s a way of implying that you’re using a term in an unusual way or that you don’t necessarily approve of it:novaselinenever wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:12 pm Why are you putting weird vibe in quotation mark? lol
Example: This article was written by a “professional” writer.![]()
I'm familiar with scare quotes but I'm weirded out by your use of them. Both the targeted terms and the number lol.
Luna's Wins/Losses
Spoiler: show
Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
Lunalee wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:02 pmJackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:48 pm I’d lynch Luna, Juliets and maybe Sprityo.
That is, I have no real desire to lynch Mac.playa salad!

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Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
Ok, then tell us what I did in the beginning of that game that looks like the beginning of this game. It looked to me like you were saying you saw things while hosting me that others (players, spectators) didn't see. Otherwise why not just say "In Julie's last game"? But like I told nova maybe I just was focused too hard on the fact you said you hosted me, so just give some specific examples of what you saw there that you are saying you see here.Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:40 pmWork is plentiful and unpleasant.
What kind of inside knowledge was I trying to get people to believe I had about you? I have no inside knowledge. I got a role and that is all.juliets wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:09 pmI don't know what he means. I look the same at the beginning of every game. He seems to be trying to get people to believe he has some kind of inside knowledge. Maybe he would like to share specifics. I won't tag him because it messes up his browser and he says he reads every post so he'll see this one.novaselinenever wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:59 pmI find myself unimpressed by Luna and Nutella so far. What do you think about Epi's thoughts on you?
linki
Spoiler: show
Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
I'm most definitely not calling you lazy. I realize you stay very busy. Just your early posts come across as lazy to me.Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:47 pmHow can you opine that Spacedaisy is a civilian on the basis of people's reactions to a massive post that you haven't even read?Lunalee wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:08 pm My "caught-up" opinions on everyone:
Spacedaisy - despite the "weird vibe" popular opinion on spacedaisy, I actually think she looks town. mechanics posts can be town, and I like that she wrote all that out while learning the roles (I will read it eventually, promise).![]()
I am far, far, far, far from a lazy poster. That adjective cannot possibly apply to someone who is so busy he is unable to post.
Luna's Wins/Losses
Spoiler: show
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Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
What do you see that you saw in Addams family?Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:01 pmJuliets does feel like her Adams Family self. I don’t like Sprityo saying he’s gonna supatown and then being like “well not yet.”novaselinenever wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:53 pmWhat's up with Juliets and Sprit?Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:48 pm I’d lynch Luna, Juliets and maybe Sprityo.
That is, I have no real desire to lynch Mac.
Spoiler: show
Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
oh, and per your other question:Lunalee wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:10 pmI'm most definitely not calling you lazy. I realize you stay very busy. Just your early posts come across as lazy to me.Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:47 pmHow can you opine that Spacedaisy is a civilian on the basis of people's reactions to a massive post that you haven't even read?Lunalee wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:08 pm My "caught-up" opinions on everyone:
Spacedaisy - despite the "weird vibe" popular opinion on spacedaisy, I actually think she looks town. mechanics posts can be town, and I like that she wrote all that out while learning the roles (I will read it eventually, promise).![]()
I am far, far, far, far from a lazy poster. That adjective cannot possibly apply to someone who is so busy he is unable to post.
I thought Daisy's posts in general looked good, and I don't agree with other people's reactions to her post. (And I did skim the large post, I get the gist of it)
Luna's Wins/Losses
Spoiler: show
Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
I thought you meant that I had "information," (i.e., some mechanical-based host-given knowledge about you).juliets wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:07 pmOk, then tell us what I did in the beginning of that game that looks like the beginning of this game. It looked to me like you were saying you saw things while hosting me that others (players, spectators) didn't see. Otherwise why not just say "In Julie's last game"? But like I told nova maybe I just was focused too hard on the fact you said you hosted me, so just give some specific examples of what you saw there that you are saying you see here.Epignosis wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:40 pmWork is plentiful and unpleasant.
What kind of inside knowledge was I trying to get people to believe I had about you? I have no inside knowledge. I got a role and that is all.juliets wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:09 pmI don't know what he means. I look the same at the beginning of every game. He seems to be trying to get people to believe he has some kind of inside knowledge. Maybe he would like to share specifics. I won't tag him because it messes up his browser and he says he reads every post so he'll see this one.novaselinenever wrote: ↑Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:59 pmI find myself unimpressed by Luna and Nutella so far. What do you think about Epi's thoughts on you?
linki
I gave my impression at the time. I'm not going to go through and dig up specific examples about things.
You're posting a great deal, and I have no interest in lynching a heavy participant Day 1 without a compelling reason. You giving me a similar sense to your performance in your last game is far from a compelling reason.
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Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
If we need seven votes to kill somebody, I recommend that we take time now to create a default lynch, one that, if nothing better arises, that's where we go to ensure bloodshed occurs.
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Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
I'm in. Mac sound good? Open to suggestions as well.
Luna's Wins/Losses
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- juliets
- Dancing Pancake
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- juliets
- Dancing Pancake
- Posts in topic: 82
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Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
I don't feel like I've seen anything AI about Mac. He was uninvolved like this in the Addams family.
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Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
I'm not wild about a MacDougall lynch. He was not active in Addams and didn't even submit Night actions. I feel like lynching him now would be a lazy move.
Of course, knowing that bastard, he's being useless now on purpose.
Of course, knowing that bastard, he's being useless now on purpose.

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Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
But his few posts and vote seemed off. Hence my vote. Who would you like to lynch (besides me of course)?
Luna's Wins/Losses
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- juliets
- Dancing Pancake
- Posts in topic: 82
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- juliets
- Dancing Pancake
- Posts in topic: 82
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Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
What seemed off about his posts and vote? Maybe you have explained this and I missed it.Lunalee wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:21 pmBut his few posts and vote seemed off. Hence my vote. Who would you like to lynch (besides me of course)?
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- MacDougall
- Out of my scumrange
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- juliets
- Dancing Pancake
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Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
We need [mention]Jackofhearts2005[/mention] and [mention]novaselinenever[/mention] to join the discussion. I haven't seen the others recently.
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Re: Vault Hunt [Day 1]
Here's the short of it: Mac responds to nova's post "I hope Mac's a witch" with "No, I'm not, and neither are you." Sabie then asks about the interaction because it feels weird, and Mac replies to sabie that it "it was nothing." then decides to put his vote on her.juliets wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:23 pmWhat seemed off about his posts and vote? Maybe you have explained this and I missed it.Lunalee wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:21 pmBut his few posts and vote seemed off. Hence my vote. Who would you like to lynch (besides me of course)?
Luna's Wins/Losses
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