Steely Dan Mafia [ENDGAME]

[dunya]

i don't feel lunalee and speedchuck are bad together based on how they handled each other post their btsc night. i trust juliets' judgement and if she feels happy with speedchuck after their btsc night, i feel like i can move him below luna. luna hasn't sounded authentic for a while, you know, in her signature i'm going to blurt whatever comes out (at least not since she threw a vote on kites. also, in hindsight, her mac case and soft prods don't make her look all that much better. feels like distancing to me now.

[mention]Lunalee[/mention]

[Lunalee]

i don't feel lunalee and speedchuck are bad together based on how they handled each other post their btsc night. i trust juliets' judgement and if she feels happy with speedchuck after their btsc night, i feel like i can move him below luna. luna hasn't sounded authentic for a while, you know, in her signature i'm going to blurt whatever comes out (at least not since she threw a vote on kites. also, in hindsight, her mac case and soft prods don't make her look all that much better. feels like distancing to me now.

Lunalee

Um, sorry you think I look bad? I really don't know how to respond to change your perception of me. Honestly my mac case was on a whim. I saw his post, thought "he thinks the exact opposite of me!" and said something about it. I didn't even push for his lynch because I didn't suspect him that much.

[juliets]

I would really like to see the case on Luna basically bulleted unless someone has already done that in which case I'd like to know where to find it - whose ISO.

[juliets]

Bye Nova. I am voting luna like I said I would if there was a kill this time.

explain what you mean please.

Luna was not active and there were no night kills for what, 2 nights? Then there was the narrowed lynch poll. Luna was on it and all of a sudden she had time to come in and get involved. With an active Luna there was now a night kill. I explained that if the night kill came about now that Luna was active, that I would assume those non-night kills were due to an inactive mafia luna.

linki....this whole insanification gold stuff is over my head.

That is a very poor reason to vote for someone. There were plenty of people available who could have killed during the night. And there are plenty of reason that the previous night-kills didn't go through.

Luna I agree with the part of Elo's assessment about you coming out in force when you were on the narrowed lynch poll. You had not been around before that. I do agree with you however that there were plenty of people who could have killed during the night. Why do you say there are plenty of reasons the previous night kills didn't go through? Which reasons are you talking about?

[dunya]

be more like the luna everyone has a hard time understanding.

[Lunalee]

Bye Nova. I am voting luna like I said I would if there was a kill this time.

explain what you mean please.

Luna was not active and there were no night kills for what, 2 nights? Then there was the narrowed lynch poll. Luna was on it and all of a sudden she had time to come in and get involved. With an active Luna there was now a night kill. I explained that if the night kill came about now that Luna was active, that I would assume those non-night kills were due to an inactive mafia luna.

linki....this whole insanification gold stuff is over my head.

That is a very poor reason to vote for someone. There were plenty of people available who could have killed during the night. And there are plenty of reason that the previous night-kills didn't go through.

Luna I agree with the part of Elo's assessment about you coming out in force when you were on the narrowed lynch poll. You had not been around before that. I do agree with you however that there were plenty of people who could have killed during the night. Why do you say there are plenty of reasons the previous night kills didn't go through? Which reasons are you talking about?

The reason I thought was most likely was scum wasn't active. But there are plenty of unique rolls in this game. A doctor could have protected the target, or a role blocker could have prevented a kill. We don't really know.

[Lunalee]

be more like the luna everyone has a hard time understanding.

but I have, and I'm headed towards a mislynch

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm in final exams all day and may not be back for this deadline. It'll be close.

[Matahari]

sort of.

In what way? I have a point here, please help me get to it.

i feel like to get to your point i'd have to role hint, and i'm not really inclined to do that.

i'll say that nova's behavior struck me as someone who had lost 2 important teammates and was laying lower than usual. he was a jailkeeper, and fair play to him to do what he had to do to not being universally town read and nk'd early.

I'll get to my own point. If, for whatever reason, you had an inkling that nova was responsible for preventing a kill -- why did you want his head?

where did i say nova prevented a kill before his flip? you're repeating mata's question, and i already answered her. i only knew it was nova who (most likely) jail kept me after epi confirmed his role. i did have doubts about my suspicions towards him on night 4, but that was based mostly on stronger suspicions towards ddl after his focused lynch pool and how i didn't see them w/w.

You didn’t say it like that, but you strongly implied it. You’re really slippery and I’m glad I started rereading you. You will most likely get my vote today, but I have some more reading to do first.

[juliets]

sort of.

In what way? I have a point here, please help me get to it.

i feel like to get to your point i'd have to role hint, and i'm not really inclined to do that.

i'll say that nova's behavior struck me as someone who had lost 2 important teammates and was laying lower than usual. he was a jailkeeper, and fair play to him to do what he had to do to not being universally town read and nk'd early.

I'll get to my own point. If, for whatever reason, you had an inkling that nova was responsible for preventing a kill -- why did you want his head?

where did i say nova prevented a kill before his flip? you're repeating mata's question, and i already answered her. i only knew it was nova who (most likely) jail kept me after epi confirmed his role. i did have doubts about my suspicions towards him on night 4, but that was based mostly on stronger suspicions towards ddl after his focused lynch pool and how i didn't see them w/w.

You didn’t say it like that, but you strongly implied it. You’re really slippery and I’m glad I started rereading you. You will most likely get my vote today, but I have some more reading to do first.

So this is intriguing. Mata will you state your reasons when you vote, i.e., what you are seeing about dunya? I wasn't even tinfoiling her but maybe I have been off this whole time.

[Lunalee]

I'm in final exams all day and may not be back for this deadline. It'll be close.

Good luck to you!

[Matahari]

[mention]juliets[/mention] i am suspicious of both Elohcin and Dunya. I started rereading Dunya last night and I’m not even finished yet. So much ooze and schmooz it’s hard for me to understand why I didn’t catch it in real time.
I believe the attempted case building on Nova night 3, with the subtle backing off on day 4, and quick implication that Nova ‘protected’ her instead of roleblocking her was classic mafioso. With that in mind, it is making all her many posts with other players look opportunistic and bluffy at the same time.

I’ve stated my suspicions on Elohcin, and I don’t want to ignore her, but I’m going to vote [VOTE: Dunya] aubergine today.

[Lunalee]

btw, [VOTE: leetic] aubergine, because I still think they are bad.

[dunya]

sort of.

In what way? I have a point here, please help me get to it.

i feel like to get to your point i'd have to role hint, and i'm not really inclined to do that.

i'll say that nova's behavior struck me as someone who had lost 2 important teammates and was laying lower than usual. he was a jailkeeper, and fair play to him to do what he had to do to not being universally town read and nk'd early.

I'll get to my own point. If, for whatever reason, you had an inkling that nova was responsible for preventing a kill -- why did you want his head?

where did i say nova prevented a kill before his flip? you're repeating mata's question, and i already answered her. i only knew it was nova who (most likely) jail kept me after epi confirmed his role. i did have doubts about my suspicions towards him on night 4, but that was based mostly on stronger suspicions towards ddl after his focused lynch pool and how i didn't see them w/w.

You didn’t say it like that, but you strongly implied it.

where?

[Matahari]

Dunya, what tipped you off to nova's protection of you, and when did that tip-off occur?

My role failed. Nova flipped jailkeeper. There was no kill n3.

You seemed to be linking things together as fact, things that I see as possible, but not definite. But once the possible is out there, it usually doesn’t get questioned.

[dunya]

I believe the attempted case building on Nova night 3, with the subtle backing off on day 4, and quick implication that Nova ‘protected’ her instead of roleblocking her was classic mafioso. With that in mind, it is making all her many posts with other players look opportunistic and bluffy at the same time.

i have suspected nova since mac flipped bad. i gave reasons why i cooled off on night 4.

you accused me of implying i knew nova was the jailkeeper. i want to know exactly where i did that.

if i were bad, and i had been reading nova as mafia since night 1, why would i begin to cool off on him before i kill him--what's my motive, what do i accomplish? nova didn’t suspect me, and i have refused to remove him from my poe--killing him while he's still a strong suspect is a better look for me.

[dunya]

Dunya, what tipped you off to nova's protection of you, and when did that tip-off occur?

My role failed. Nova flipped jailkeeper. There was no kill n3.

You seemed to be linking things together as fact, things that I see as possible, but not definite. But once the possible is out there, it usually doesn’t get questioned.

oh yeah, i'm not someone who is wishy washy with opinions. i state theories confidently if i feel they add up and make sense to me. why not?

i don't understand the second part of your post. what isn't getting questioned?

[dunya]

Nova ‘protected’ her instead of roleblocking her was classic mafioso.

yes, i will say he protected me because where did nova state i was a suspect to him?

did nova roleblock jay or protect him?

[dunya]

again, because i feel i haven't gotten an answer to this: where did i say (or imply that) nova prevented a kill before his flip?

[dunya]

[VOTE: Luna] aubergine

[VOTE: Lunalee] aubergine

Any reason other than I've not been as active and the suspect pool is narrowing down?

nova being the kill choice pointed your way more than anyone else to me.

can you explain how nova looks worst from a nova kill?

[dunya]

Luna looked fishy early but she made a post against Jack that looked genuine. Voted Mac too. Unlikely mafia.

do you remember which post looked genuine against jack? you give her credit for voting mac, but she was the last vote on mac. does that mean anything to you?

[Matahari]

I believe the attempted case building on Nova night 3, with the subtle backing off on day 4, and quick implication that Nova ‘protected’ her instead of roleblocking her was classic mafioso. With that in mind, it is making all her many posts with other players look opportunistic and bluffy at the same time.

i have suspected nova since mac flipped bad. i gave reasons why i cooled off on night 4.

you accused me of implying i knew nova was the jailkeeper. i want to know exactly where i did that.

if i were bad, and i had been reading nova as mafia since night 1, why would i begin to cool off on him before i kill him--what's my motive, what do i accomplish? nova didn’t suspect me, and i have refused to remove him from my poe--killing him while he's still a strong suspect is a better look for me.

The bold- you thanked him for protecting you, right after his role became clear. You did not acknowledge that he also Roleblocked you on a night with no kill. Until you were questioned about it.

The italics- you’re still implying things here. How do you know that Nova didn’t suspect you? He targeted you for a reason, and it could have everything to do with you trying to drum up support for a case against him.

[Matahari]

Dunya, what tipped you off to nova's protection of you, and when did that tip-off occur?

My role failed. Nova flipped jailkeeper. There was no kill n3.

You seemed to be linking things together as fact, things that I see as possible, but not definite. But once the possible is out there, it usually doesn’t get questioned.

oh yeah, i'm not someone who is wishy washy with opinions. i state theories confidently if i feel they add up and make sense to me. why not?

i don't understand the second part of your post. what isn't getting questioned?

When people imply things, they are possibilities. Not facts. But all too often, especially after tons of posting, possibilities/implications just lie there, unchallenged.

[Spacedaisy]

@speedchuck I've got an idea - tell whoever is in your chat right now what you're trying to tell me to share and if they are willing, they can communicate it in the thread. Or at least give me a clue as to what it is.

He’s trying to say Jay’s role can be used in an investigative function. But I’m not sure what he means and I probably won’t get an explanation until the morning.

Daisy, it was this quote I was talking about:

Lunalee experience at BTSC Night A: Wonderful. Juliets can choose to share Luna gold indeed, fine. Leetic less gold than Luna.

He wants me to share something but I'm not sure what.

I will say I agree with him that Luna's role is "Gold". It could swing either way but sounds more civ to me. See what you think Daisy.

He wants you to share Lina’s Role info if it looks like she might get lynched.

[dunya]

The bold- you thanked him for protecting you, right after his role became clear. You did not acknowledge that he also Roleblocked you on a night with no kill. Until you were questioned about it.

The italics- you’re still implying things here. How do you know that Nova didn’t suspect you? He targeted you for a reason, and it could have everything to do with you trying to drum up support for a case against him.

i feel like we're on 2 different wavelengths here. nova's role was out in the open: jailkeeper. i am a civilian, nova flipped civ. nova did not suspect me, i wasn't even in his 6-player poe. i was blocked on n3. i added things up. nova jailkept me. no kill on n3. maybe possibly he protected me. why would i have any reason to think "oh shit, nova roleblocked me?"

a jailkeeper can choose to protect civilians. his role isn't primarily to block suspects. a role blocker is someone whose primary role is to block people from performing their night actions.

i feel like you're intentionally trying to give my posts a bad tone, and i really don't want to waste time arguing things i've already stated and clarified. if you think i'm bad, and nothing i have said has changed your mind, you should keep your vote on me. i don't think you're bad, so i'm not going to waste time going back and forth on this.

[Spacedaisy]

@speedchuck I've got an idea - tell whoever is in your chat right now what you're trying to tell me to share and if they are willing, they can communicate it in the thread. Or at least give me a clue as to what it is.

He’s trying to say Jay’s role can be used in an investigative function. But I’m not sure what he means and I probably won’t get an explanation until the morning.

i don't think that's what he's saying, and i don't think we have more even more investigative roles. we have an alignment cop in LC and a role cop in nutella. how many cops does an epi game fit?

I’m telling you what he is telling me to tell you.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[VOTE: Luna] aubergine

[VOTE: Lunalee] aubergine

Any reason other than I've not been as active and the suspect pool is narrowing down?

nova being the kill choice pointed your way more than anyone else to me.

can you explain how nova looks worst from a nova kill?

To my memory nova was crankier about Luna than anyone else was. I don't have time right now to dig for that stuff, but it's what inspired my quick Luna vote when the day began.

[dunya]

@speedchuck I've got an idea - tell whoever is in your chat right now what you're trying to tell me to share and if they are willing, they can communicate it in the thread. Or at least give me a clue as to what it is.

He’s trying to say Jay’s role can be used in an investigative function. But I’m not sure what he means and I probably won’t get an explanation until the morning.

i don't think that's what he's saying, and i don't think we have more even more investigative roles. we have an alignment cop in LC and a role cop in nutella. how many cops does an epi game fit?

I’m telling you what he is telling me to tell you.

sorry, that was before i knew you were in btsc with him.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm in final exams all day and may not be back for this deadline. It'll be close.

Good luck to you!

Thanks! They should be easy thankfully, just time-consuming.

[Spacedaisy]

dunya, one small thing. On the day of the Mac votes I actually voted before Daisy. I voted first and then posted. She posted and then voted. I distinctly remember it because I thought our votes were likely to be put together wrong because she posted before I did. This is not a big deal for me, just want to correct the record. The way I think of it we voted at about the same time.

linki

i did the tallying manually, and if that's right then technically when you voted in the poll you brought the votes 5 for mac x 4 for nutella - and daisy would have been the 6th for mac.

I was definitely the actual vote that put him over, I remember thinking if I was wrong to trust Jay then I would be the one on the hook for it.

[dunya]

dunya, one small thing. On the day of the Mac votes I actually voted before Daisy. I voted first and then posted. She posted and then voted. I distinctly remember it because I thought our votes were likely to be put together wrong because she posted before I did. This is not a big deal for me, just want to correct the record. The way I think of it we voted at about the same time.

linki

i did the tallying manually, and if that's right then technically when you voted in the poll you brought the votes 5 for mac x 4 for nutella - and daisy would have been the 6th for mac.

I was definitely the actual vote that put him over, I remember thinking if I was wrong to trust Jay then I would be the one on the hook for it.

it's possible you both voted while the votes were 4 to each and by the time you refreshed your pages both votes had gone through. happens with me plenty of times.

[Matahari]

[VOTE: Luna] aubergine

[VOTE: Lunalee] aubergine

Any reason other than I've not been as active and the suspect pool is narrowing down?

nova being the kill choice pointed your way more than anyone else to me.

can you explain how nova looks worst from a nova kill?

To my memory nova was crankier about Luna than anyone else was. I don't have time right now to dig for that stuff, but it's what inspired my quick Luna vote when the day began.

Which night did Luna have btsc with Speed?

[Matahari]

[VOTE: Luna] aubergine

[VOTE: Lunalee] aubergine

Any reason other than I've not been as active and the suspect pool is narrowing down?

nova being the kill choice pointed your way more than anyone else to me.

can you explain how nova looks worst from a nova kill?

To my memory nova was crankier about Luna than anyone else was. I don't have time right now to dig for that stuff, but it's what inspired my quick Luna vote when the day began.

Which night did Luna have btsc with Speed?

Never mind. Speedchuck said it was Night A.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Hmm good point on Daisy vs. Jack being hard to fake.

dunya
Kites
leetic
Matahari
Neverwhere
speedchuck

Why not me?

You look authentic.

Like, I know that's a trap most of the time but what can I do, I don't have big reasons to want to tinfoil you.

[Spacedaisy]

I mean, in some cases there can be a connection. Jack's Doctor Wu is an example. If I had cursed myself though I'd never have a clue what role my own song is. Even figuring the song out is hard sometimes too. I thought nova was Bodhisattva until reywaS got host killed.

Why?

[speedchuck]

Which night did Luna have btsc with Speed?

Never mind. Speedchuck said it was Night A.

TARGET night A, BTSC next phase

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I mean, in some cases there can be a connection. Jack's Doctor Wu is an example. If I had cursed myself though I'd never have a clue what role my own song is. Even figuring the song out is hard sometimes too. I thought nova was Bodhisattva until reywaS got host killed.

Why?

He said "Chinese" and that song has many repetitions of the word "China".

[Spacedaisy]

I think he wants me to target someone that he has been in BTSC with next so that he can use the curse to confirm claims he has received there. Perhaps a Luna or a Spacedaisy.

Luna

Daisy

I haven’t given him a claim. He also hasn’t even asked for one, which is interesting.

[Spacedaisy]

Daisy less share, but speedchuck less make Daisy share

Lol looks like we were thinking the same thing.

[Spacedaisy]

I think he wants me to target someone that he has been in BTSC with next so that he can use the curse to confirm claims he has received there. Perhaps a Luna or a Spacedaisy.

Luna

Daisy

are you saying you feel better about luna and worse about daisy?

He is saying Luna made a role claim and I have not. He could use Jay’s role to help confirm her claim, but he doesn’t have anything on me. I’m a little cautious lol. I’m also hoping to talk to him more this evening.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

also, something i remembered is that DDL and leetic were teammates in world flags. i'll re-read their handling of each other there when time permits.

I wouldn't remember that if you didn't tell me. I was lynched on D1.

[juliets]

dunya, one small thing. On the day of the Mac votes I actually voted before Daisy. I voted first and then posted. She posted and then voted. I distinctly remember it because I thought our votes were likely to be put together wrong because she posted before I did. This is not a big deal for me, just want to correct the record. The way I think of it we voted at about the same time.

linki

i did the tallying manually, and if that's right then technically when you voted in the poll you brought the votes 5 for mac x 4 for nutella - and daisy would have been the 6th for mac.

I was definitely the actual vote that put him over, I remember thinking if I was wrong to trust Jay then I would be the one on the hook for it.

I only remember that I voted right before you. Maybe I was the one who evened them up. But you definitely had not voted when I voted. It's really not the big of a deal in my mind. I knew it was going to be screwed up because of the way it happened.

On the Luna thing I remember Luna saying she would role claim rather than get lynched. I will certainly back up her role claim if it's what I heard in btsc. I guess if she's not around toward lynch time and she's in the lead I should go ahead and out her though I hate to make that decision for somebody. Daisy I get that you are just passing along what [mention]speedchuck[/mention] is saying and I appreciate you doing so.

[Spacedaisy]

@speedchuck I've got an idea - tell whoever is in your chat right now what you're trying to tell me to share and if they are willing, they can communicate it in the thread. Or at least give me a clue as to what it is.

He’s trying to say Jay’s role can be used in an investigative function. But I’m not sure what he means and I probably won’t get an explanation until the morning.

i don't think that's what he's saying, and i don't think we have more even more investigative roles. we have an alignment cop in LC and a role cop in nutella. how many cops does an epi game fit?

I’m telling you what he is telling me to tell you.

sorry, that was before i knew you were in btsc with him.

Nothing to be sorry for I’m repeating what others have said a so do my catch up read anyway lol.

[Matahari]

Which night did Luna have btsc with Speed?

Never mind. Speedchuck said it was Night A.

TARGET night A, BTSC next phase

Thank you. I was trying to work out logistics, I think they’re called. If Nova targeted Luna night 2, would she still have been able to be in btsc with Speed? Just trying to figure out a reason why nova moved Luna to the top.

[Spacedaisy]

I mean, in some cases there can be a connection. Jack's Doctor Wu is an example. If I had cursed myself though I'd never have a clue what role my own song is. Even figuring the song out is hard sometimes too. I thought nova was Bodhisattva until reywaS got host killed.

Why?

He said "Chinese" and that song has many repetitions of the word "China".

Ah, interesting.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Matahari and Kites entered this phase as players on the fringe -- possible POE candidates but not definitely. Where do people stand on them now? If they can be resolved, the suspect pool becomes considerably clearer.

I think Matahari looks quite genuine in her suspicion of dunya.

Kites's big vote tracker thing is a good shiny object, but not something that moves me (and he granted that much himself to his credit). I do still think he looks generally authentic though.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Nova mind,

Leetic - no relaxed
Luna - relaxed
Neverwhere - no relaxed
Niju - no relaxed
Rey- relaxed

Luna - not relaxed

On Day 4, nova's take on Luna shifted across these two posts. To learn more about his suspicion of her, return to the first quote and then follow his ISO forward from that point until he died. I believe that his case was primarily a behavioral one, relating to Luna's posts (and not to night actions or the like).

[Spacedaisy]

Matahari and Kites entered this phase as players on the fringe -- possible POE candidates but not definitely. Where do people stand on them now? If they can be resolved, the suspect pool becomes considerably clearer.

I think Matahari looks quite genuine in her suspicion of dunya.

Kites's big vote tracker thing is a good shiny object, but not something that moves me (and he granted that much himself to his credit). I do still think he looks generally authentic though.

I agree with both of these reads. I have always felt like everything Mata posts is very civ minded, but not in a look how civ I am kind of way which a mafia will want that credit. She keeps her cards close to the vest and only plays them when she thinks it’s prudent, again not the look of someone who is searching for civ cred or looking to fabricate reads.

Kites, I like everything he says. I feel good about him but I don’t have a solid reason to town read him so I’m not inclined to emote him from any PoE.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Luna looked fishy early but she made a post against Jack that looked genuine. Voted Mac too. Unlikely mafia.

do you remember which post looked genuine against jack? you give her credit for voting mac, but she was the last vote on mac. does that mean anything to you?

This post.

I wanna vote Luna but I’m secretly a huge softy and feel bad about her getting lynched a lot D1.

This makes me cringe. It reads like you know I'm town, and feel bad joining in on the lynch.

I just like it. It's real shade on Jack, and probably a good argument.

As for the Mac thing, looking again I don't particularly like her post interaction with Mac. I guess back to neutral on that.

[juliets]

Matahari and Kites entered this phase as players on the fringe -- possible POE candidates but not definitely. Where do people stand on them now? If they can be resolved, the suspect pool becomes considerably clearer.

I think Matahari looks quite genuine in her suspicion of dunya.

Kites's big vote tracker thing is a good shiny object, but not something that moves me (and he granted that much himself to his credit). I do still think he looks generally authentic though.

I agree that Mata looks authentic in her suspicion of dunya. Why would a baddie come out with a read that goes against the grain and one that she's not likely to find followers for today?

I like kites' read post this morning (or was it late last night, I've lost track) and agree he looks authentic.