MU Season 6 Scrimmage [GAME OVER]

[Luxurious]

Do i believe all three of them are scum

No

Do i think that at least one of them is scum

There’s a 50/50 chance looking at my PoE so yes

Do I want them all dead at this point: also yes. We’ve been looking for a sub for mp7 for what, the better part of 3 day phases?

How annoying

[Luxurious]

Actually if all 3 of them are town we gotta lynch correctly today otherwise town is straight fucked tomorrow

Like 8:3

5:3 if we figure all 3 are town

Mrrrrr

[Owner of a Lonely Heart]

I think I'm losing interest in playing mafia again.

I don't want to bring the game down or anything. I just don't know or feel like my heart is truly in playing mafia to the fullest anymore.

I think Favorites on NF might be the exception.

---
Part of me still doesn't want to trust Lux because of their interactions with Ultra on day 1.

I haven't really whole lot. I stupidly sign up for another game (cause cool theme), but I'm coming to the same conclusion in said other game.

I just don't know if mafia is for me right now.

I don't want to suck. And I don't want to regret things said, but I'm not giving it my fullest attention.

---

I'll try to give updated reads before the next night phase, but I think that's honestly where my head is at.

---

Oddly enough, I think I might want to trust Dragomir, but it might just be I don't know or understand how his reaction to me where he said he wanted to scum read me.

Then again, he goes on to say that he wanted to lynch me...smh

---

I'll make my reads list tomorrow. Hopefully, I'll have firmer stances on everyone else tomorrow and decide where to vote.

[Luxurious]

Owner I absolutely understand lol

[Luxurious]

My issue really isnt “i’m losing interest in mafia” it’s more burn out from try harding and then continuously losing.

Because I think the Mac gambit, while town, could still be fake.

Like if mafia have all 3 actives (so ddl/mac/ 1 of nutella/ Speed)

Then they’ve already won the game and this proves scum can win, but this also fits under a loltown game for me.

Not that anyone played bad just that we’ve come to day 4 with three (3) inactives which pretty much obliterated any chance we had

[Luxurious]

I’m still inclined to think DDL is town though

Trying to consider every possibility also

But along with that I have a tinfoil that DDL wants to lynch JJJ as a “SUCK IT” Kinda move if he’s scum here which is pretty ballsy but I dont think he’s that much of a dick to do that

[Luxurious]

K you do you, if it were me I'd probably wait until either myself or the person I checked were in danger of being lynched but ok

Why tho

Why ask nutella this when Mac already stated he wanted to do the same thing

[Luxurious]

Mac explain to me what the issue is. I read all of it but like

What???

I wasnt saying anything was wrong with you just the whole questioning of you was pretty like

Confusing

[Luxurious]

In the name of the Jay, I charge you to make effort cases. In the name of the Dunya, I charge you to be creepily accurate. In the name of the Epi, I charge you to irritate the scum into failure. Arise, Luffy of Naruto Forums, a civ of the S6 Scrimmage.

Omg thanks

Now lets lynch Jay.

No seriously, Mac. Look at me. From man to man. We have been together in the same faction many times. As both civ/civ and w/w. We have won a game where we made Jay mislynch 7 times while we laughed at him from Chatzy. It was fun. But now I am offering an even bigger pleasure. We are going to catch him with stealing the cookie pot.

You may think hes civ because he made 285383938 ISOs and played every item from the Jay playbook. But who do you say is the town leader now? Luxurious? Maybe you? Nova was a decent leader too. But Jay is not, because he is not engaging. He is not talking to us. He is in his little world, filling the Jay checklist while the rest of us are mind melding.

Then we will propose some obvious bait lynch (dragomir/rdw/jessie) and Jay will join. Then they will flip town, we will say "alas, poor scummy civ" and we will go back to playing while Jay will start working on Jayexercise #8.

This has to stop. I have descended from the skies to purge the corrupt Teddy Bear from the Earth. I shall fulfill this mission then gladly take a night kill for it. For I am Luffy, cleanser of fake town leaders.

Join me.

My biggest issue with Jay case is that it’s just based around “he’s not towning enough to be town”

Kinda feels like a tunnel

But there have been points where I’ve felt like he was more focused on his ISO’s than interacting

Hmmm

[Luxurious]

In the name of the Jay, I charge you to make effort cases. In the name of the Dunya, I charge you to be creepily accurate. In the name of the Epi, I charge you to irritate the scum into failure. Arise, Luffy of Naruto Forums, a civ of the S6 Scrimmage.

Omg thanks

Now lets lynch Jay.

No seriously, Mac. Look at me. From man to man. We have been together in the same faction many times. As both civ/civ and w/w. We have won a game where we made Jay mislynch 7 times while we laughed at him from Chatzy. It was fun. But now I am offering an even bigger pleasure. We are going to catch him with stealing the cookie pot.

You may think hes civ because he made 285383938 ISOs and played every item from the Jay playbook. But who do you say is the town leader now? Luxurious? Maybe you? Nova was a decent leader too. But Jay is not, because he is not engaging. He is not talking to us. He is in his little world, filling the Jay checklist while the rest of us are mind melding.

Then we will propose some obvious bait lynch (dragomir/rdw/jessie) and Jay will join. Then they will flip town, we will say "alas, poor scummy civ" and we will go back to playing while Jay will start working on Jayexercise #8.

This has to stop. I have descended from the skies to purge the corrupt Teddy Bear from the Earth. I shall fulfill this mission then gladly take a night kill for it. For I am Luffy, cleanser of fake town leaders.

Join me.

You ain't talking to me, but I'm f#&@ing moved.

[VOTE: Jigglyjammyjorp] aubergine

Hey speed Can I Ask Why

[Luxurious]

I know I asked DDL for his “if jay is scum who’s his team” list and he answered but i cant find it and I ran outta tape so i cant keep packing so im calling it a day

[Luxurious]

But i do wanna do this before I go

[VOTE: SpeedChuck] aubergine

[MacDougall]

In the name of the Jay, I charge you to make effort cases. In the name of the Dunya, I charge you to be creepily accurate. In the name of the Epi, I charge you to irritate the scum into failure. Arise, Luffy of Naruto Forums, a civ of the S6 Scrimmage.

Omg thanks

Now lets lynch Jay.

No seriously, Mac. Look at me. From man to man. We have been together in the same faction many times. As both civ/civ and w/w. We have won a game where we made Jay mislynch 7 times while we laughed at him from Chatzy. It was fun. But now I am offering an even bigger pleasure. We are going to catch him with stealing the cookie pot.

You may think hes civ because he made 285383938 ISOs and played every item from the Jay playbook. But who do you say is the town leader now? Luxurious? Maybe you? Nova was a decent leader too. But Jay is not, because he is not engaging. He is not talking to us. He is in his little world, filling the Jay checklist while the rest of us are mind melding.

Then we will propose some obvious bait lynch (dragomir/rdw/jessie) and Jay will join. Then they will flip town, we will say "alas, poor scummy civ" and we will go back to playing while Jay will start working on Jayexercise #8.

This has to stop. I have descended from the skies to purge the corrupt Teddy Bear from the Earth. I shall fulfill this mission then gladly take a night kill for it. For I am Luffy, cleanser of fake town leaders.

Join me.

[MacDougall]

But really Jay is one of my biggest townreads so you're asking me to just ignore that. I could do that because yolo. But I'd feel pretty dumb if we lynched Jay and he flipped civ when we have half the game that I give fuck all civ credit to.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

fun times lasted way longer than anticipated. hi.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm definitely no longer going to be able to finish my extended analyses this phase, so whatever. I'll fetch the goods and then figure out what the hell y'all are talking about as of the 9th of May, 2019 EST

[JaggedJimmyJay]

As far as I got. Anyone who views Lux and/or Owner as major concerns will need to take up the helm. It's important work no matter what anyone says. I just lost Steely Dan as a direct result of not getting it done (and, frankly, about four other civilian games this year that started well and still ended with a flop).

[JaggedJimmyJay]

He's made a big deal of ddl being clearly his preferred lynch, but whenever there's been an opportunity to put pressure on owner he's jumped onto her and says he'd be okay with lynching her, and same to rdw and jess. He's clearly focused on ddl, but he's also clearly keeping his options open.

[VOTE: dragomir] aubergine

What in Jesus name is wrong with this? I have my scum reads. I want to lynch one of them so of course I'm going to my options open to find a compromise in lynching one of my scum reads.

This query is indirectly related to the player salad notion that has been brought up. It was briefly described as a "tell", but I don't think that quite does it justice. Everyone has "tells" they talk about and most of them are bullcrap in my opinion. This one has been tried and true in my experience, granting a limited sample size. I have kept track of it. I'm not surprised nutella specifically took interest in it here, because it's been her own worst enemy.

Most recently in World Flags Mafia

A compiled history of more player salad accusations that became mafia flips

Hurling out a list of four names as lynch prospects is genuinely a problem, and here is evidence to support that. I have long said that the prototype salad comes in this form: "I would be willing to lynch X, Y, Z, or maybe W". Dragomir's is missing the "maybe", but it's still a salad. I asked for one alternative to lynching Gemma and I received four names. That's not going to make a difference. It can't. I take this seriously.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Please tell me the remaining 4 pages I have to read are not just people trying to make Dragomir act reasonably and failing to do so.

Because it's making this catch-up boring.

The stuff that you guys find me to be doing as unreasonable is not as unreasonable as you may think.

I understand that gloating may be TMI and a bad thing and not giving town reads is also a bad thing but that's just part of my personality mate. I love being right and it hurts when I'm wrong. Basically why I keep playing mafia as I want to have correct reads and if they're wrong I'll use them as motivation.

Like come on, you guys can't be telling me you don't like rubbing it in once in a while.

Rubbing it in can be a great pleasure.

I feel like you've been rubbing it in about me on multiple occasions though, and my alignment has not been revealed. Every time someone has questioned me, you have responded with loud, assertive protests that it would be some kind of strategic impossibility. I struggle to believe that you really feel that way. Nothing in Mafia is so simple for a civilian. Preemptive gloats are a problem.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think I may have jacked up the colors in my chart when I copied over to add Lux and Owner. Lemme double-check rill quik.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Yeah I copied over shit in the RDW/speedchuck area. Just forget about the chart for now and refer to the analyses in their text forms. Same information.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[VOTE: JaggedJimmyJay] aubergine

I don't know speedchuck or his meta or whatever but he town read and defended him far too soon. Also switched his vote to a player who isn't active instead of pursuing DDL

If they’re partners than Ultra’s progression was legit
>ew his trap sucked
>he caught someone as a joke it makes sense people voted him
>someone townread him for that? For reals?
>i’m gonna vote the guy townreading my partner because his play doesnt make sense to be townread

Wish nova was here to tell me if this is legit how ultra thinks as scum

I can tell you. And the answer is...kinda.

So... do you think speed could be scum?

This warrants an answer, [mention]Dragomir[/mention].

[JaggedJimmyJay]

speedchuck already looked into the numbers, and I want to double-check it. The MP variable adds a wrinkle that needs to be accounted for mathematically -- if he doesn't show up and vote (and the slot isn't replaced in the late game), then he might as well be dead. If that's a civilian vote, it has ramifications that need to be understood.

11 players alive right now. 8 vs. 3.

At face value, if a night kill is projected each night that's 2 mislynches to a 4 vs. 3 LyLo.

If MP is a civilian and never votes, that effectively becomes 7 vs. 3, which is one mislynch short of an unofficial MyLo (again projecting nightly kills).

If MP is a mafioso, then his absence represents a significant civilian advantage by the numbers -- we cannot count on that or make that assumption. As such I think we need to be in a one mislynch mindset. That amounts to a POE of four.

Jessie is also plausibly a no-show in the late game. I think he's more likely to return than MP, but who knows. All of the same applies. If both are civilians, that'd place us one mislynch short of an unofficial LyLo at present. Any other arrangement dictates the numbers accordingly.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Actually now that I look, RDW hasn't posted in six days himself; that's even longer than Jessie. So fuck me. Everything is bad.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

POE is 'process of elimination'.

When a townie starts the game, they think anyone could be scum. As they townread people, they eliminate them from consideration, and end up with a POE: a shorter list of people who could be scum.

It's like a list of scumreads, but it focuses on getting rid of townreads more than putting on scumreads.

So you do know what it means you sonovabitch.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

All you did was setup yourself to be killed N5 Mac and if scum is ballsy enough then N4(N2 and N4 doc is still lurking so maybe they won't do it.)

yuck

Why should Mac care about this? Does it make him bad?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

But Jay is not, because he is not engaging. He is not talking to us. He is in his little world, filling the Jay checklist while the rest of us are mind melding.

I'm about to say one of the most arrogant things I have ever said. It is going to sound extremely petty, and I have been holding it back literally all year. I think it's necessary to say though, because it is the core mindset underlying everything I have done on this Day 4:

I don't think I can win as a civilian if I don't solve the entire game by myself. Period.

I seriously don't want to offend anyone. I think very highly of so many players in this game and around the community. 2019 has been a hot fucking mess though, and a recurring theme has emerged in games I have lost almost without exception:

Civilians start fast and take a lead. I am generally an important part of it or spearheading it outright. I die. The civilians engage in goofy-ass decision-making that runs contrary to everything I had said while alive, and then we all lose. Let me count the ways: Shockheaded Peter, Community, Gossip Girl, Steely Dan -- this happened in all of them. I have to do it all myself. Thank goodness World Flags wasn't the same story, thanks to some fluke luck.

So I am doing it all myself. My priority is solving the entire game. I solve the entire game by analyzing the shit out of every nook and cranny of its thread to this point. Anything else is secondary to that. Because if I don't, I will lose. I may still lose if I do.

If you don't believe me, I can't be assed. I believe you're a civilian, and I hope you'll view my posts through the civilian lens because the motives ought to be easy to identify if you're looking for them.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

You ain't talking to me, but I'm f#&@ing moved.

[VOTE: Jigglyjammyjorp] aubergine

Why are you expletive moved?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Do you guys modkill inactives?

Host's prerogative. Most of them here don't care for it, but some do. I won't speak for our host here.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think I'm losing interest in playing mafia again.

I know the feeling. It's great to have you around for this one regardless.

Part of me still doesn't want to trust Lux because of their interactions with Ultra on day 1.

That does warrant a revisit.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]Dragon D. Luffy[/mention], a sentence or two summary of your faith in Dragomir would be swell.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[VOTE: rundontwalk2] aubergine

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]rundontwalk2[/mention] calling to you from the void echo echo echo

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm gonna have to get some sleep. Good talk.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[VOTE: speedchuck] aubergine

[Dragon D. Luffy]

But Jay is not, because he is not engaging. He is not talking to us. He is in his little world, filling the Jay checklist while the rest of us are mind melding.

I'm about to say one of the most arrogant things I have ever said. It is going to sound extremely petty, and I have been holding it back literally all year. I think it's necessary to say though, because it is the core mindset underlying everything I have done on this Day 4:

I don't think I can win as a civilian if I don't solve the entire game by myself. Period.

I seriously don't want to offend anyone. I think very highly of so many players in this game and around the community. 2019 has been a hot fucking mess though, and a recurring theme has emerged in games I have lost almost without exception:

Civilians start fast and take a lead. I am generally an important part of it or spearheading it outright. I die. The civilians engage in goofy-ass decision-making that runs contrary to everything I had said while alive, and then we all lose. Let me count the ways: Shockheaded Peter, Community, Gossip Girl, Steely Dan -- this happened in all of them. I have to do it all myself. Thank goodness World Flags wasn't the same story, thanks to some fluke luck.

So I am doing it all myself. My priority is solving the entire game. I solve the entire game by analyzing the shit out of every nook and cranny of its thread to this point. Anything else is secondary to that. Because if I don't, I will lose. I may still lose if I do.

If you don't believe me, I can't be assed. I believe you're a civilian, and I hope you'll view my posts through the civilian lens because the motives ought to be easy to identify if you're looking for them.

I think I actually believe this.

Hmm

I still don't like the way you have played so far though. I would want to see a few hundred more questions and prossings added to your game solving.

Also don't worry about feeling arrogant. After all those years I think I've kind of figured out how you think. You don't think you are better than others, but you like to play the game at the highest possible meta level whenever you can, and if others are not interested in doing that, you do it anyway.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Dragon D. Luffy, a sentence or two summary of your faith in Dragomir would be swell.

It's much, much easier to see his posts from the lens of a civ who just thinks he is the shit than from an evil person trying to act like a civ.

You'd think after the fifth time we called him out of his crap, he'd have backed down.

Maybe he is a baddie who is commited to the extreme to double down on everything he says and never show weakness, but I think that's a little hard, psychologically, when your goal is to survive, not to be right.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

When I'm a baddie I'm constantly trying to control my own level of self-confidence.

I feel like I have to show work, but there is a force constantly pulling me back, which is the fear that one of my posts will be perceived as fabricated.

I don't think I would be able to maintain the level of hubris Dragomir has had for so long myself as scun. Granted I'm not him, but people are similar.

[Dragomir]

[VOTE: JaggedJimmyJay] aubergine

I don't know speedchuck or his meta or whatever but he town read and defended him far too soon. Also switched his vote to a player who isn't active instead of pursuing DDL

If they’re partners than Ultra’s progression was legit
>ew his trap sucked
>he caught someone as a joke it makes sense people voted him
>someone townread him for that? For reals?
>i’m gonna vote the guy townreading my partner because his play doesnt make sense to be townread

Wish nova was here to tell me if this is legit how ultra thinks as scum

I can tell you. And the answer is...kinda.

So... do you think speed could be scum?

This warrants an answer, @Dragomir.

I missed that. He can be scum, but I don't believe so.

[Dragomir]

When I'm a baddie I'm constantly trying to control my own level of self-confidence.

I feel like I have to show work, but there is a force constantly pulling me back, which is the fear that one of my posts will be perceived as fabricated.

I don't think I would be able to maintain the level of hubris Dragomir has had for so long myself as scun. Granted I'm not him, but people are similar.

You have self-confidence as a baddie but not as civ? It's opposite for me.

[Dragomir]

Dragon D. Luffy, a sentence or two summary of your faith in Dragomir would be swell.

It's much, much easier to see his posts from the lens of a civ who just thinks he is the shit than from an evil person trying to act like a civ.

You'd think after the fifth time we called him out of his crap, he'd have backed down.

Maybe he is a baddie who is commited to the extreme to double down on everything he says and never show weakness, but I think that's a little hard, psychologically, when your goal is to survive, not to be right.

I still don't think what you guys have called me out for are as reasonable as you may believe.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

When I'm a baddie I'm constantly trying to control my own level of self-confidence.

I feel like I have to show work, but there is a force constantly pulling me back, which is the fear that one of my posts will be perceived as fabricated.

I don't think I would be able to maintain the level of hubris Dragomir has had for so long myself as scun. Granted I'm not him, but people are similar.

You have self-confidence as a baddie but not as civ? It's opposite for me.

You don't understand, I have a certain level of self-confidence as both.

But as a civ, I don't really have a fear of being perceived as baddie. Well, I do, but not as strongly. The main fear is of being wrong. And if I think I'm right I can sustain that for a while before I start second guessing myself.

If I'm bad, the fear of being perceived as bad is much stronger, and makes me more likely to waffle or back down on things.

The real challenge is trying to align my civilian self-control with the baddie one so they produce similar thread activity, even if they are motivated by different things.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Dragon D. Luffy, a sentence or two summary of your faith in Dragomir would be swell.

It's much, much easier to see his posts from the lens of a civ who just thinks he is the shit than from an evil person trying to act like a civ.

You'd think after the fifth time we called him out of his crap, he'd have backed down.

Maybe he is a baddie who is commited to the extreme to double down on everything he says and never show weakness, but I think that's a little hard, psychologically, when your goal is to survive, not to be right.

I still don't think what you guys have called me out for are as reasonable as you may believe.

I think if you were baddie you wouldn't care about that.

[speedchuck]

In the name of the Jay, I charge you to make effort cases. In the name of the Dunya, I charge you to be creepily accurate. In the name of the Epi, I charge you to irritate the scum into failure. Arise, Luffy of Naruto Forums, a civ of the S6 Scrimmage.

Omg thanks

Now lets lynch Jay.

No seriously, Mac. Look at me. From man to man. We have been together in the same faction many times. As both civ/civ and w/w. We have won a game where we made Jay mislynch 7 times while we laughed at him from Chatzy. It was fun. But now I am offering an even bigger pleasure. We are going to catch him with stealing the cookie pot.

You may think hes civ because he made 285383938 ISOs and played every item from the Jay playbook. But who do you say is the town leader now? Luxurious? Maybe you? Nova was a decent leader too. But Jay is not, because he is not engaging. He is not talking to us. He is in his little world, filling the Jay checklist while the rest of us are mind melding.

Then we will propose some obvious bait lynch (dragomir/rdw/jessie) and Jay will join. Then they will flip town, we will say "alas, poor scummy civ" and we will go back to playing while Jay will start working on Jayexercise #8.

This has to stop. I have descended from the skies to purge the corrupt Teddy Bear from the Earth. I shall fulfill this mission then gladly take a night kill for it. For I am Luffy, cleanser of fake town leaders.

Join me.

You ain't talking to me, but I'm f#&@ing moved.

[VOTE: Jigglyjammyjorp] aubergine

Hey speed Can I Ask Why

Want to see what happens.

[speedchuck]

You ain't talking to me, but I'm f#&@ing moved.

[VOTE: Jigglyjammyjorp] aubergine

Why are you expletive moved?

Because if you're scum, everything I do in this game is worth nothing without assessing that.

Do you believe that you're exhibiting symptoms of your lost faith in the collective town: Doing a lot of work yourself, but not interacting and driving others as much? How are we to differentiate that from a lack of engagement in the thread?
And if you're trying to solve the game yourself, what are your conclusions?

[speedchuck]

JJJ has been my top town read pretty much all game, for much the same reason as Mac. And I am voting for him at the moment. I'm not going to explain why. Deal with it.

[speedchuck]

I'm only going to 'be' here two more hours.

[speedchuck]

Guess I'll do things before I get lynched for the same reason I got lynched last game.


speedchuck - that's me.
Dragon D Luffy - Cleared for reasons just below.
Macdougall - Coud technically see a scum Mac clearing town DDL, but that's weird and unlikely. No reason for him to do that. I definitely don't think Mac and DDL are w/w.
Luxurious - The only person I'm probably going to reread today. Their volume of posts and general pressure on the thread is really productive, and I'd be surprised if scum was behind the wheel of that. I'd also be surprised that they can keep things as consistent over such a volume.
nutella - I made the statement that her suspicion on me seemed genuine. I did a lot of soul-searching to reach that conclusion. I am going to stick to it.
Owner of a Lonely Heart - Has (after early D1) played exactly as I'd expect a civilian Owner to play.
JaggedJimmyJay - Paranoid about him because he hasn't refuted what DDL said so much as he's claimed it was for another reason. Have seen very few concrete conclusions from him that I remember.
Dragomir - Too scummy to be scum does not make him a townread. Drago has done some weird stuff, and his irritation and floundering when his top read became townlock was pretty weird. That said, Drago would have been proven wrong by DDL's flip too, and he was going for it hard.

Inactives:
M Plus 7 - Don't recall any pings
JessieKruger - Possible TMI that I can't ask him about
rundontwalk2 - some weird interactions

[speedchuck]

Lux kinda danced around the Ultra lynch a bit. They never disagreed with scumreads on Ultra, but prodded for 'why's and voted other people until the end, when they sheeped the vote.

That's what I find when searching for 'Ultra' in Lux's posts, though. Not sure if it's anything.

[speedchuck]

Are you always so fickle in your reads?

Yes.

Nice to meet you. DDL.

i think we''ll get along marvelously old chap

Possibly. I'm still butthurt that I suspected you all game in FE and we both ended up being civ, but that will go away I think.

i liked the attention it's okay

[mention]Dragon D. Luffy[/mention] Can you speak to the vibe you got from this interaction? What do you think of RDW?