Arrowverse Mafia - Day 8

[Luxurious]

Town mvp is a bit of stretch sloonei considering all I did was stop scum kills but never picked up on who the scum team was

[Sloonei]

None of my usual advocates are in this game. They have been replaced by people who don’t know me.

It’s noticeable.

[Sloonei]

Town mvp is a bit of stretch sloonei considering all I did was stop scum kills but never picked up on who the scum team was

You were THIS CLOSE at one point.

[Sloonei]

I’m more available than I thought I’d be. Still not on my laptop so I can’t do hardcore things, but I’m available for dialogue for a bit.

[Luxurious]

No it doesn’t. Move it to any other person you think deserves to be talked about.

It does because I still dont know who I wanna talk about

Bogus. Pick a name.

Question why are you focused on why my vote is currently there

And how would me picking a name at random be any better than like

Having my meaningless vote currently on you?

I’m focused on your vote being idle. I am not asking you to pick a random name.

Okay well give me some time to play catch up then

Reads on Dragomir and Epi, go.

Uh uh

Dragomir is playing weird but I think he’s started his tunnel on you which coincides with his last game pretty well so I’m gonna say town for now.

Epi plays like he doesn’t care about how people are reading him and is still keeping an open mind (even though he didnt unvote me I’m still biased) people shading him without actually voting him does look better for him since it looks like they’re preparing for a mislynch

[Jackofhearts2005]

Somebody requote the slip.

[MafiaMenace]

Start of Day 1 rainbow list:

Ultra
Macdougall
MafiaMenace
sabie
Jackofhearts
Epignosis
Dragomir
nutella
Creature
Dragon D Luffy
Long Con
speedchuck
juliets
Matahari
sprityo
Spacedaisy
Cooler
DrWilgy
Luxurious

[VOTE: Luxurious] aubergine

Why the Luxy scum read?

I've been waiting 3 hours for someone to ask that! :goofp:
stand by.

Okay @MafiaMenace

Please tell me how this makes you feel

theres a difference between your case and sloons

sloon never baited a response, it was a barebones readslist that some people might not have questioned

even if you want to argue that they did bait a question, they had a lot of points to back it up while you had maybe a sentence

[Jackofhearts2005]

Epi saying he doesn't care about what people think of him is a defense mechanism.

*ducks*

[Luxurious]

I’m more available than I thought I’d be. Still not on my laptop so I can’t do hardcore things, but I’m available for dialogue for a bit.

Okay then any chances you can vague answer my questions at least

[Sloonei]

Now read Jack, [mention]Luxurious[/mention]

[MafiaMenace]

HOLY SHIT LOL WTF
when did everyone vote lux

too close

[MafiaMenace]

how must one unvote from the poll

[Sloonei]

I’m more available than I thought I’d be. Still not on my laptop so I can’t do hardcore things, but I’m available for dialogue for a bit.

Okay then any chances you can vague answer my questions at least

Sure. Let me find it.

[MafiaMenace]

wait majority is much more than i thought

carry on

[Jackofhearts2005]

how must one unvote from the poll

You can't. Vote the fake option at the bottom.

[Sloonei]

HOLY SHIT LOL WTF
when did everyone vote lux

too close

Why does this concern you so much?

There is no unvote option. You just have to move your vote elsewhere.

[Sloonei]

wait majority is much more than i thought

carry on

There is no majority voting anyway.

[MafiaMenace]

wait majority is much more than i thought

carry on

There is no majority voting anyway.

ah

[Sloonei]

Spoiler: show

"Why Lux?"

at first glance cult looks pretty harmless early game, in my personal opinion it should be spent on someone like deathstroke, it brings down the average kpn from 2.5 (i assume) down to 1.5

i dont see any posts of ultra that would let me make a read as they are all pregame fluff which happens or strategic thinking which comes from both alignments

Hmmmm

what's on yer mind?

It feels a bit like a minimization of what Ultra’s doing

And I’m not sure if MM has played with Ultra before but it’s kinda shady to dismiss his posts as pregame fluff or NAI

I don't feel good about this post. I don't agree with the sentiment of the first line, nor do I feel like that behavior would been to be qualified as suspicious. I also do not see why Lux is suspecting MafiaMenace for not committing to a read on Ultra right away. Lux has not playing with MafiaMenace, to my knowledge. This whole post feels like a reach for suspicion.
Moving on.

Forgot that the felicity player can't just post results

In that case, what we might want to try a coordinated effort to allow the felicity player to "claim indirectly"

Here's what I'm thinking, if all of us come together and decide on D1 that nobody is allowed to cast a vote, except for the felicity player who casts a vote on her peek, we get whoever we want out D1.

This doesn't break the claiming rules as far as I understand, because anybody can still step forth and vote. But if someone else does vote, we'll still know one is felicity and one is scum. So still a net +

Interesting idea but that would not only out them and give scum a target

But wouldnt it be better to hold off using that until late game where there’ll be more information regarding player alignment?

I mean the felicity player's peak is a one shot, and can ascertain the identity of any player role in the game, so I think it's a no brainer that it would be used straight away

I mean sure if you wanna get a scum right from the start and not give them any chance to out their teammates

But there are only 2 (pending 3) in the mafia team currently

This feels a bit like a minimization of what Ultra's doing.

And the bottom line has already been called into question by Ultra. I'm intrigued by that slip, but unable to do anything decisive with it. An explanation exists. It does nothing for me.

I have substantiated a gripe that I have with a Speedchuck post on Day 0. It exists to bolster the conversation in the thread.

Speedchuck gave an indecisive wave of the hand. I'd like him to tell us what it means, and I'd like other people to comment on it.

Why does your response exist?

I don't feel strongly about it either way. It's something I can easily imagine myself saying as well, as a general impulse to sort out what I'm thinking about people who have been active in the thread so far.

I’m mindmelding with this

This post bothers me for reasons that are difficult to articulate. nutella essentially just says that she is capable of seeing two sides of an argument, and that warrants a "mindmeld" comment from Lux. I dunno, I guess I'm just used to seeing "mindmeld" reserved for strong, drawn out cases, not basic gameplay. Feels like a reach to establish a bond with nutella. This comes back later in a post I've already highlighted. Time for me to share my own thoughts on it:

Spoiler: show

When I originally stated my reason for suspecting MM I said it was because he was focusing on mechanics and that there were parts of that discussion which specifically pinged me. Even disregarding the small specific pings, which both he and Lux dismissed as weak and I concede that they were, I still suspect him for the main reason of generally focusing on mechanics. That make sense?

Serenade me with your take on why his focus on mechanics is suspicious

and what your other small pings were

It's an easy thing to talk about that isn't developing reads on other players. It's a way for scum to look productive in the thread without actually driving the scumhunting process.

Already discussed the other pings and they were shot down. Still have a hunch though.

This mindmeld is the only thing convincing me that you have potential to be town

Again, the point which is being "mindmelded" over does not feel particularly strong or meaningful, which makes me feel like it's insincere. And I also do not like it when players dangle suspicion like this. "I would suspect you, but..."
If you are going to say that, you should attach the reasons you have for considering the person a suspect. I don't see Lux doing that anywhere. I see a lot of softball questions for people, but I don't see a really compelling chain of thoughts anywhere in Lux's ISO. And I see this read on nutella that looks very fake.

If Day 1 started right now my vote would be on nutella.

Your suspicions are gravitating around people focusing too much on mechanics and I don’t see you as a driving force in the thread. You’re reacting rather than creating. It feels safe.

Sloonei treating day 0 like a super extension on day 1 is like good

But I think this is a bit early of a jump

I can see this coming from an anxious town or a trigger happy scum.

Since y’all apparently bus like there’s no tomorrow here, I’m leaning scum

Another thing I hate is this. Nowhere in this post does Lux attach any of my behavior to bussing. She observes that I am being very active. She then makes the leap from "Sloonei is active" to "People on the Syndicate like to bus", and somehow puts these two pieces together to create a suspicion against me. She would later elaborate that it was "an associative read" between nutella and I, but I do not see why that is the conclusion she is drawing. All Lux has said about me is that I'm extremely active and therefore suspicious. Bogus.

tl;dr: Lux was on fire in the scrimmage. She was the town MVP. This is a limp start, and I don't see threads connecting her thoughts. Her reads feel arbitrary and baseless.

[/spoiler]

I stopped reading this when you turned my words back around on me lol

By that I mean you suspect me for doing something and then do the same thing so I’m not reading the rest of this
[/quote]

Hypocrisy is a staple of the town playbook.

But also I’m not sure what you’re referring to.

Back to looking for The One Question.

[Luxurious]

Start of Day 1 rainbow list:

Ultra
Macdougall
MafiaMenace
sabie
Jackofhearts
Epignosis
Dragomir
nutella
Creature
Dragon D Luffy
Long Con
speedchuck
juliets
Matahari
sprityo
Spacedaisy
Cooler
DrWilgy
Luxurious

[VOTE: Luxurious] aubergine

Why the Luxy scum read?

I've been waiting 3 hours for someone to ask that!
stand by.

Okay @MafiaMenace

Please tell me how this makes you feel

theres a difference between your case and sloons

sloon never baited a response, it was a barebones readslist that some people might not have questioned

even if you want to argue that they did bait a question, they had a lot of points to back it up while you had maybe a sentence

I wasnt really asking for a comparison but fair enough regardless

I was more just asking your opinion about it but uh hm

Obviously he had the ISO prepared but you think he’s town because when asked he had a full list ready to go?

[MafiaMenace]

hot take

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine
ill get to the super small case in a moment

[MafiaMenace]

Start of Day 1 rainbow list:

Ultra
Macdougall
MafiaMenace
sabie
Jackofhearts
Epignosis
Dragomir
nutella
Creature
Dragon D Luffy
Long Con
speedchuck
juliets
Matahari
sprityo
Spacedaisy
Cooler
DrWilgy
Luxurious

[VOTE: Luxurious] aubergine

Why the Luxy scum read?

I've been waiting 3 hours for someone to ask that! :goofp:
stand by.

Okay @MafiaMenace

Please tell me how this makes you feel

theres a difference between your case and sloons

sloon never baited a response, it was a barebones readslist that some people might not have questioned

even if you want to argue that they did bait a question, they had a lot of points to back it up while you had maybe a sentence

I wasnt really asking for a comparison but fair enough regardless

I was more just asking your opinion about it but uh hm

Obviously he had the ISO prepared but you think he’s town because when asked he had a full list ready to go?

actually yeah sloonei why didnt you just post it?
it would come across much more townier

[Dragomir]

So my scum read on Sloonei is based off his iso on Nutella and how trying to discredit my thoughts on him based on the last game.

The first one is because it felt completely fabricated and tryhard just to impress and get town cred. I felt like the whole schmick of it was to make it look like a in-depth analysis with all the wording he had, and the dissecting of every post to lead to the ultimate good of becoming a deep wolf and power wolf his way through starting D0. The iso is similar to what Nutella's iso on me the last game was. It looks deep and stuff from surface level, but looking below the surface, it comes straight outa left field.

The second is bad cause it's well just plain old discrediting to make my thoughts look worse than what they actually are(at least imo). Making the person doubt their reads and have others not look into it much. Seeing how I believed I played bad last game and made public of that, I can see scum taking advantage of this by saying that I'm doing the same thing as last game to get into my head.

Though my vote is not on him but instead Luxy. Why? I firmly do believe that she made a scum slip there and she didn't do a good job convincing me otherwise.

[Dragomir]

It does because I still dont know who I wanna talk about

Bogus. Pick a name.

Question why are you focused on why my vote is currently there

And how would me picking a name at random be any better than like

Having my meaningless vote currently on you?

I’m focused on your vote being idle. I am not asking you to pick a random name.

Okay well give me some time to play catch up then

Reads on Dragomir and Epi, go.

Uh uh

Dragomir is playing weird but I think he’s started his tunnel on you which coincides with his last game pretty well so I’m gonna say town for now.

What is considered "normal" to you?

[Luxurious]

Spoiler: show

"Why Lux?"

what's on yer mind?

It feels a bit like a minimization of what Ultra’s doing

And I’m not sure if MM has played with Ultra before but it’s kinda shady to dismiss his posts as pregame fluff or NAI

I don't feel good about this post. I don't agree with the sentiment of the first line, nor do I feel like that behavior would been to be qualified as suspicious. I also do not see why Lux is suspecting MafiaMenace for not committing to a read on Ultra right away. Lux has not playing with MafiaMenace, to my knowledge. This whole post feels like a reach for suspicion.
Moving on.

I mean the felicity player's peak is a one shot, and can ascertain the identity of any player role in the game, so I think it's a no brainer that it would be used straight away

I mean sure if you wanna get a scum right from the start and not give them any chance to out their teammates

But there are only 2 (pending 3) in the mafia team currently

This feels a bit like a minimization of what Ultra's doing.

And the bottom line has already been called into question by Ultra. I'm intrigued by that slip, but unable to do anything decisive with it. An explanation exists. It does nothing for me.

I don't feel strongly about it either way. It's something I can easily imagine myself saying as well, as a general impulse to sort out what I'm thinking about people who have been active in the thread so far.

I’m mindmelding with this

This post bothers me for reasons that are difficult to articulate. nutella essentially just says that she is capable of seeing two sides of an argument, and that warrants a "mindmeld" comment from Lux. I dunno, I guess I'm just used to seeing "mindmeld" reserved for strong, drawn out cases, not basic gameplay. Feels like a reach to establish a bond with nutella. This comes back later in a post I've already highlighted. Time for me to share my own thoughts on it:

Spoiler: show

It's an easy thing to talk about that isn't developing reads on other players. It's a way for scum to look productive in the thread without actually driving the scumhunting process.

Already discussed the other pings and they were shot down. Still have a hunch though.

This mindmeld is the only thing convincing me that you have potential to be town

Again, the point which is being "mindmelded" over does not feel particularly strong or meaningful, which makes me feel like it's insincere. And I also do not like it when players dangle suspicion like this. "I would suspect you, but..."
If you are going to say that, you should attach the reasons you have for considering the person a suspect. I don't see Lux doing that anywhere. I see a lot of softball questions for people, but I don't see a really compelling chain of thoughts anywhere in Lux's ISO. And I see this read on nutella that looks very fake.

Your suspicions are gravitating around people focusing too much on mechanics and I don’t see you as a driving force in the thread. You’re reacting rather than creating. It feels safe.

Sloonei treating day 0 like a super extension on day 1 is like good

But I think this is a bit early of a jump

I can see this coming from an anxious town or a trigger happy scum.

Since y’all apparently bus like there’s no tomorrow here, I’m leaning scum

Another thing I hate is this. Nowhere in this post does Lux attach any of my behavior to bussing. She observes that I am being very active. She then makes the leap from "Sloonei is active" to "People on the Syndicate like to bus", and somehow puts these two pieces together to create a suspicion against me. She would later elaborate that it was "an associative read" between nutella and I, but I do not see why that is the conclusion she is drawing. All Lux has said about me is that I'm extremely active and therefore suspicious. Bogus.

tl;dr: Lux was on fire in the scrimmage. She was the town MVP. This is a limp start, and I don't see threads connecting her thoughts. Her reads feel arbitrary and baseless.

[/spoiler]

I stopped reading this when you turned my words back around on me lol

By that I mean you suspect me for doing something and then do the same thing so I’m not reading the rest of this

Hypocrisy is a staple of the town playbook.

But also I’m not sure what you’re referring to.

Back to looking for The One Question.

I fixed it because it looked so ugly

I mean firstly i dont think town usually plays hypocritically but I also feel like such a thing has happened before so Fair enough

Secondly, I say “i feel like mafiamenace is trying to discrete ultra” and you express how you think that’s shady. And then you say “i feel like lux is trying to discrete ultra”

And my brain just shuts down

[Sloonei]

[mention]Luxurious[/mention] I believe The Question you want answered is “Why don’t you inude posts where people outside of nutella start suspecting you?” If this is not the question you’re referring to, please point me in the right direction

The answer, believe it or not, is brevity. I didn’t think to include posts like that because it didn’t seem totally necessary. I was focusing on nutella, not Other People. But if I had my laptop right now I could highlight suspicions from Macdougall, Ultra (I think. Might be mixing him up with someone else), and Dragomir just off the top of my head. My concern at the time was that nutella had been keeping me at arm’s length while proclaiming a town read, but as soon as the opportunity arose to pile onto a case against me, she pounced.

I do not currently read nutella as scum and I am not currently operating under this assumption. But when I looked to nutella with an eye for suspicious behavior, that was a possibility which stood out to me.

[Dragomir]

So my scum read on Sloonei is based off his iso on Nutella and how trying to discredit my thoughts on him based on the last game.

The first one is because it felt completely fabricated and tryhard just to impress and get town cred. I felt like the whole schmick of it was to make it look like a in-depth analysis with all the wording he had, and the dissecting of every post to lead to the ultimate good of becoming a deep wolf and power wolf his way through starting D0. The iso is similar to what Nutella's iso on me the last game was. It looks deep and stuff from surface level, but looking below the surface, it comes straight outa left field.

The second is bad cause it's well just plain old discrediting to make my thoughts look worse than what they actually are(at least imo). Making the person doubt their reads and have others not look into it much. Seeing how I believed I played bad last game and made public of that, I can see scum taking advantage of this by saying that I'm doing the same thing as last game to get into my head.

Though my vote is not on him but instead Luxy. Why? I firmly do believe that she made a scum slip there and she didn't do a good job convincing me otherwise.

Oh, one last thing to add, his wanting to do a GTH earlier. Mac already explained why that's pretty scummy so not gonna reiterate it.

[Luxurious]

Start of Day 1 rainbow list:

Ultra
Macdougall
MafiaMenace
sabie
Jackofhearts
Epignosis
Dragomir
nutella
Creature
Dragon D Luffy
Long Con
speedchuck
juliets
Matahari
sprityo
Spacedaisy
Cooler
DrWilgy
Luxurious

[VOTE: Luxurious] aubergine

Why the Luxy scum read?

I've been waiting 3 hours for someone to ask that!
stand by.

Okay @MafiaMenace

Please tell me how this makes you feel

theres a difference between your case and sloons

sloon never baited a response, it was a barebones readslist that some people might not have questioned

even if you want to argue that they did bait a question, they had a lot of points to back it up while you had maybe a sentence

I wasnt really asking for a comparison but fair enough regardless

I was more just asking your opinion about it but uh hm

Obviously he had the ISO prepared but you think he’s town because when asked he had a full list ready to go?

actually yeah sloonei why didnt you just post it?
it would come across much more townier

That’s what I was really trying to ask so my bad for misphrasing

[Sloonei]

Start of Day 1 rainbow list:

Ultra
Macdougall
MafiaMenace
sabie
Jackofhearts
Epignosis
Dragomir
nutella
Creature
Dragon D Luffy
Long Con
speedchuck
juliets
Matahari
sprityo
Spacedaisy
Cooler
DrWilgy
Luxurious

[VOTE: Luxurious] aubergine

Why the Luxy scum read?

I've been waiting 3 hours for someone to ask that!
stand by.

Okay @MafiaMenace

Please tell me how this makes you feel

theres a difference between your case and sloons

sloon never baited a response, it was a barebones readslist that some people might not have questioned

even if you want to argue that they did bait a question, they had a lot of points to back it up while you had maybe a sentence

I wasnt really asking for a comparison but fair enough regardless

I was more just asking your opinion about it but uh hm

Obviously he had the ISO prepared but you think he’s town because when asked he had a full list ready to go?

actually yeah sloonei why didnt you just post it?
it would come across much more townier

Because not posting it forces people to react (or distinctly not react. I wanted to see who would take notice, who would inquire, and who would overlook/ignore it. These are all things that can be very informative later on, especially if Luxurious were to flip scum.

[Sloonei]

So my scum read on Sloonei is based off his iso on Nutella and how trying to discredit my thoughts on him based on the last game.

The first one is because it felt completely fabricated and tryhard just to impress and get town cred. I felt like the whole schmick of it was to make it look like a in-depth analysis with all the wording he had, and the dissecting of every post to lead to the ultimate good of becoming a deep wolf and power wolf his way through starting D0. The iso is similar to what Nutella's iso on me the last game was. It looks deep and stuff from surface level, but looking below the surface, it comes straight outa left field.

The second is bad cause it's well just plain old discrediting to make my thoughts look worse than what they actually are(at least imo). Making the person doubt their reads and have others not look into it much. Seeing how I believed I played bad last game and made public of that, I can see scum taking advantage of this by saying that I'm doing the same thing as last game to get into my head.

Though my vote is not on him but instead Luxy. Why? I firmly do believe that she made a scum slip there and she didn't do a good job convincing me otherwise.

Oh, one last thing to add, his wanting to do a GTH earlier. Mac already explained why that's pretty scummy so not gonna reiterate it.

I was not trying to discredit you when I brought up the scrimmage. I was sincerely just trying to help you.

[Dragomir]

[mention][/mention]

Why the Luxy scum read?

I've been waiting 3 hours for someone to ask that!
stand by.

Okay @MafiaMenace

Please tell me how this makes you feel

theres a difference between your case and sloons

sloon never baited a response, it was a barebones readslist that some people might not have questioned

even if you want to argue that they did bait a question, they had a lot of points to back it up while you had maybe a sentence

I wasnt really asking for a comparison but fair enough regardless

I was more just asking your opinion about it but uh hm

Obviously he had the ISO prepared but you think he’s town because when asked he had a full list ready to go?

actually yeah sloonei why didnt you just post it?
it would come across much more townier

Because not posting it forces people to react (or distinctly not react. I wanted to see who would take notice, who would inquire, and who would overlook/ignore it. These are all things that can be very informative later on, especially if Luxurious were to flip scum.

So what are you thinking about those who did the bolded?

[MafiaMenace]

nevermind alot of his good shit really outweighs his bad

[MafiaMenace]

Why the Luxy scum read?

I've been waiting 3 hours for someone to ask that! :goofp:
stand by.

Okay @MafiaMenace

Please tell me how this makes you feel

theres a difference between your case and sloons

sloon never baited a response, it was a barebones readslist that some people might not have questioned

even if you want to argue that they did bait a question, they had a lot of points to back it up while you had maybe a sentence

I wasnt really asking for a comparison but fair enough regardless

I was more just asking your opinion about it but uh hm

Obviously he had the ISO prepared but you think he’s town because when asked he had a full list ready to go?

actually yeah sloonei why didnt you just post it?
it would come across much more townier

Because not posting it forces people to react (or distinctly not react. I wanted to see who would take notice, who would inquire, and who would overlook/ignore it. These are all things that can be very informative later on, especially if Luxurious were to flip scum.

and youre town kthx

[Luxurious]

@Luxurious I believe The Question you want answered is “Why don’t you inude posts where people outside of nutella start suspecting you?” If this is not the question you’re referring to, please point me in the right direction

The answer, believe it or not, is brevity. I didn’t think to include posts like that because it didn’t seem totally necessary. I was focusing on nutella, not Other People. But if I had my laptop right now I could highlight suspicions from Macdougall, Ultra (I think. Might be mixing him up with someone else), and Dragomir just off the top of my head. My concern at the time was that nutella had been keeping me at arm’s length while proclaiming a town read, but as soon as the opportunity arose to pile onto a case against me, she pounced.

I do not currently read nutella as scum and I am not currently operating under this assumption. But when I looked to nutella with an eye for suspicious behavior, that was a possibility which stood out to me.

Yah that was it.

And that’s fair. Nutella addressed it as well since she seemed to know what you were talking about. I am aware of the read swap you had because it is Very Apparent in your list

So was that a point you explicitly wanted nutella to respond to? Or was that iso made mostly as a “here’s why you too! Should scum read nutella!”

[Dragomir]

So my scum read on Sloonei is based off his iso on Nutella and how trying to discredit my thoughts on him based on the last game.

The first one is because it felt completely fabricated and tryhard just to impress and get town cred. I felt like the whole schmick of it was to make it look like a in-depth analysis with all the wording he had, and the dissecting of every post to lead to the ultimate good of becoming a deep wolf and power wolf his way through starting D0. The iso is similar to what Nutella's iso on me the last game was. It looks deep and stuff from surface level, but looking below the surface, it comes straight outa left field.

The second is bad cause it's well just plain old discrediting to make my thoughts look worse than what they actually are(at least imo). Making the person doubt their reads and have others not look into it much. Seeing how I believed I played bad last game and made public of that, I can see scum taking advantage of this by saying that I'm doing the same thing as last game to get into my head.

Though my vote is not on him but instead Luxy. Why? I firmly do believe that she made a scum slip there and she didn't do a good job convincing me otherwise.

Oh, one last thing to add, his wanting to do a GTH earlier. Mac already explained why that's pretty scummy so not gonna reiterate it.

I was not trying to discredit you when I brought up the scrimmage. I was sincerely just trying to help you.

What? You literally admitted to trying to discredit me in this post.

I am discrediting you because you are suspecting me. I’ve responded to every point you’ve expressed against me and you’ve just come back with additional points or refused to budge. I’m telling you that you’re wrong after having addressed every other point. You are wrong about me. Please at least entertain me and pretend that I’m town.

[Sloonei]

Spoiler: show

"Why Lux?"

It feels a bit like a minimization of what Ultra’s doing

And I’m not sure if MM has played with Ultra before but it’s kinda shady to dismiss his posts as pregame fluff or NAI

I don't feel good about this post. I don't agree with the sentiment of the first line, nor do I feel like that behavior would been to be qualified as suspicious. I also do not see why Lux is suspecting MafiaMenace for not committing to a read on Ultra right away. Lux has not playing with MafiaMenace, to my knowledge. This whole post feels like a reach for suspicion.
Moving on.

I mean sure if you wanna get a scum right from the start and not give them any chance to out their teammates

But there are only 2 (pending 3) in the mafia team currently

This feels a bit like a minimization of what Ultra's doing.

And the bottom line has already been called into question by Ultra. I'm intrigued by that slip, but unable to do anything decisive with it. An explanation exists. It does nothing for me.

I’m mindmelding with this

This post bothers me for reasons that are difficult to articulate. nutella essentially just says that she is capable of seeing two sides of an argument, and that warrants a "mindmeld" comment from Lux. I dunno, I guess I'm just used to seeing "mindmeld" reserved for strong, drawn out cases, not basic gameplay. Feels like a reach to establish a bond with nutella. This comes back later in a post I've already highlighted. Time for me to share my own thoughts on it:

Spoiler: show

This mindmeld is the only thing convincing me that you have potential to be town

Again, the point which is being "mindmelded" over does not feel particularly strong or meaningful, which makes me feel like it's insincere. And I also do not like it when players dangle suspicion like this. "I would suspect you, but..."
If you are going to say that, you should attach the reasons you have for considering the person a suspect. I don't see Lux doing that anywhere. I see a lot of softball questions for people, but I don't see a really compelling chain of thoughts anywhere in Lux's ISO. And I see this read on nutella that looks very fake.

Your suspicions are gravitating around people focusing too much on mechanics and I don’t see you as a driving force in the thread. You’re reacting rather than creating. It feels safe.

Sloonei treating day 0 like a super extension on day 1 is like good

But I think this is a bit early of a jump

I can see this coming from an anxious town or a trigger happy scum.

Since y’all apparently bus like there’s no tomorrow here, I’m leaning scum

Another thing I hate is this. Nowhere in this post does Lux attach any of my behavior to bussing. She observes that I am being very active. She then makes the leap from "Sloonei is active" to "People on the Syndicate like to bus", and somehow puts these two pieces together to create a suspicion against me. She would later elaborate that it was "an associative read" between nutella and I, but I do not see why that is the conclusion she is drawing. All Lux has said about me is that I'm extremely active and therefore suspicious. Bogus.

tl;dr: Lux was on fire in the scrimmage. She was the town MVP. This is a limp start, and I don't see threads connecting her thoughts. Her reads feel arbitrary and baseless.

[/spoiler]

I stopped reading this when you turned my words back around on me lol

By that I mean you suspect me for doing something and then do the same thing so I’m not reading the rest of this

Hypocrisy is a staple of the town playbook.

But also I’m not sure what you’re referring to.

Back to looking for The One Question.

I fixed it because it looked so ugly

I mean firstly i dont think town usually plays hypocritically but I also feel like such a thing has happened before so Fair enough

Secondly, I say “i feel like mafiamenace is trying to discrete ultra” and you express how you think that’s shady. And then you say “i feel like lux is trying to discrete ultra”

And my brain just shuts down

That... was the point? You accused a player of being shady for a thing, and then you did the thing yourself.

That is hypocritical.

And I just said that hypocrisy is a staple of the town playbook. By that I mean that a civilian is perfectly capable of accusing a player of doing something they are also guilty of; just because I do X and know what my intentions were, it does not mean I cannot become suspicious of you when you also do X, because I do not know your intentions.

So here I am, accusing you of being suspicious because you were hypocritical, in open acknowledgment that this itself is hypocritical.

[Luxurious]

So my scum read on Sloonei is based off his iso on Nutella and how trying to discredit my thoughts on him based on the last game.

The first one is because it felt completely fabricated and tryhard just to impress and get town cred. I felt like the whole schmick of it was to make it look like a in-depth analysis with all the wording he had, and the dissecting of every post to lead to the ultimate good of becoming a deep wolf and power wolf his way through starting D0. The iso is similar to what Nutella's iso on me the last game was. It looks deep and stuff from surface level, but looking below the surface, it comes straight outa left field.

The second is bad cause it's well just plain old discrediting to make my thoughts look worse than what they actually are(at least imo). Making the person doubt their reads and have others not look into it much. Seeing how I believed I played bad last game and made public of that, I can see scum taking advantage of this by saying that I'm doing the same thing as last game to get into my head.

Though my vote is not on him but instead Luxy. Why? I firmly do believe that she made a scum slip there and she didn't do a good job convincing me otherwise.

Dragomir at this point I gotta ask why you said you town read me then if you legitimately believe I’m scum and made an obvious slip. Like what purpose does that have.

Also I was also gonna argue that Sloonei didnt discrete you but he did say it directly. However he did have a point that I’ve even said before in regards to how you enter tunnels that it’s fairly hard from you to break from when you lock yourself into them

[Sloonei]

So my scum read on Sloonei is based off his iso on Nutella and how trying to discredit my thoughts on him based on the last game.

The first one is because it felt completely fabricated and tryhard just to impress and get town cred. I felt like the whole schmick of it was to make it look like a in-depth analysis with all the wording he had, and the dissecting of every post to lead to the ultimate good of becoming a deep wolf and power wolf his way through starting D0. The iso is similar to what Nutella's iso on me the last game was. It looks deep and stuff from surface level, but looking below the surface, it comes straight outa left field.

The second is bad cause it's well just plain old discrediting to make my thoughts look worse than what they actually are(at least imo). Making the person doubt their reads and have others not look into it much. Seeing how I believed I played bad last game and made public of that, I can see scum taking advantage of this by saying that I'm doing the same thing as last game to get into my head.

Though my vote is not on him but instead Luxy. Why? I firmly do believe that she made a scum slip there and she didn't do a good job convincing me otherwise.

Oh, one last thing to add, his wanting to do a GTH earlier. Mac already explained why that's pretty scummy so not gonna reiterate it.

I was not trying to discredit you when I brought up the scrimmage. I was sincerely just trying to help you.

What? You literally admitted to trying to discredit me in this post.

I am discrediting you because you are suspecting me. I’ve responded to every point you’ve expressed against me and you’ve just come back with additional points or refused to budge. I’m telling you that you’re wrong after having addressed every other point. You are wrong about me. Please at least entertain me and pretend that I’m town.

I was flustered because you came at me like a whirlwind. I tried to emphasize in that post that you were leaving me no choice but to discredit you, because you were tunneling me in the same way (I perceived) you to be tunneling your suspects last game. You implied you wanted to improve from that performance. I have been trying to help you.

[Luxurious]

Spoiler: show

"Why Lux?"
I don't feel good about this post. I don't agree with the sentiment of the first line, nor do I feel like that behavior would been to be qualified as suspicious. I also do not see why Lux is suspecting MafiaMenace for not committing to a read on Ultra right away. Lux has not playing with MafiaMenace, to my knowledge. This whole post feels like a reach for suspicion.
Moving on.
This feels a bit like a minimization of what Ultra's doing.

And the bottom line has already been called into question by Ultra. I'm intrigued by that slip, but unable to do anything decisive with it. An explanation exists. It does nothing for me.

This post bothers me for reasons that are difficult to articulate. nutella essentially just says that she is capable of seeing two sides of an argument, and that warrants a "mindmeld" comment from Lux. I dunno, I guess I'm just used to seeing "mindmeld" reserved for strong, drawn out cases, not basic gameplay. Feels like a reach to establish a bond with nutella. This comes back later in a post I've already highlighted. Time for me to share my own thoughts on it:

Spoiler: show

This mindmeld is the only thing convincing me that you have potential to be town

Again, the point which is being "mindmelded" over does not feel particularly strong or meaningful, which makes me feel like it's insincere. And I also do not like it when players dangle suspicion like this. "I would suspect you, but..."
If you are going to say that, you should attach the reasons you have for considering the person a suspect. I don't see Lux doing that anywhere. I see a lot of softball questions for people, but I don't see a really compelling chain of thoughts anywhere in Lux's ISO. And I see this read on nutella that looks very fake.

Sloonei treating day 0 like a super extension on day 1 is like good

But I think this is a bit early of a jump

I can see this coming from an anxious town or a trigger happy scum.

Since y’all apparently bus like there’s no tomorrow here, I’m leaning scum

Another thing I hate is this. Nowhere in this post does Lux attach any of my behavior to bussing. She observes that I am being very active. She then makes the leap from "Sloonei is active" to "People on the Syndicate like to bus", and somehow puts these two pieces together to create a suspicion against me. She would later elaborate that it was "an associative read" between nutella and I, but I do not see why that is the conclusion she is drawing. All Lux has said about me is that I'm extremely active and therefore suspicious. Bogus.

tl;dr: Lux was on fire in the scrimmage. She was the town MVP. This is a limp start, and I don't see threads connecting her thoughts. Her reads feel arbitrary and baseless.

[/spoiler]

I stopped reading this when you turned my words back around on me lol

By that I mean you suspect me for doing something and then do the same thing so I’m not reading the rest of this

Hypocrisy is a staple of the town playbook.

But also I’m not sure what you’re referring to.

Back to looking for The One Question.

I fixed it because it looked so ugly

I mean firstly i dont think town usually plays hypocritically but I also feel like such a thing has happened before so Fair enough

Secondly, I say “i feel like mafiamenace is trying to discrete ultra” and you express how you think that’s shady. And then you say “i feel like lux is trying to discrete ultra”

And my brain just shuts down

That... was the point? You accused a player of being shady for a thing, and then you did the thing yourself.

That is hypocritical.

And I just said that hypocrisy is a staple of the town playbook. By that I mean that a civilian is perfectly capable of accusing a player of doing something they are also guilty of; just because I do X and know what my intentions were, it does not mean I cannot become suspicious of you when you also do X, because I do not know your intentions.

So here I am, accusing you of being suspicious because you were hypocritical, in open acknowledgment that this itself is hypocritical.

The thing is that I’m obviously coming from a position where I dont think I did the thing myself.

And if we keep being hypocritical in circles, how are we supposed to get anywhere. Obviously it’s offputting to you. It’s offputting to me. I’m not gonna respond to a case that I think is made intentionally to cast me as scum because I already know it’s not true, and it doesnt matter to me if you’re town or scum making it.

But the thing is that I dont! Think I was discrediting his idea because i was engaging in a debate about how to best use the role which ultimately we ended up agreeing upon

So like, w h y

[Dragomir]

So my scum read on Sloonei is based off his iso on Nutella and how trying to discredit my thoughts on him based on the last game.

The first one is because it felt completely fabricated and tryhard just to impress and get town cred. I felt like the whole schmick of it was to make it look like a in-depth analysis with all the wording he had, and the dissecting of every post to lead to the ultimate good of becoming a deep wolf and power wolf his way through starting D0. The iso is similar to what Nutella's iso on me the last game was. It looks deep and stuff from surface level, but looking below the surface, it comes straight outa left field.

The second is bad cause it's well just plain old discrediting to make my thoughts look worse than what they actually are(at least imo). Making the person doubt their reads and have others not look into it much. Seeing how I believed I played bad last game and made public of that, I can see scum taking advantage of this by saying that I'm doing the same thing as last game to get into my head.

Though my vote is not on him but instead Luxy. Why? I firmly do believe that she made a scum slip there and she didn't do a good job convincing me otherwise.

Dragomir at this point I gotta ask why you said you town read me then if you legitimately believe I’m scum and made an obvious slip. Like what purpose does that have.

Also I was also gonna argue that Sloonei didnt discrete you but he did say it directly. However he did have a point that I’ve even said before in regards to how you enter tunnels that it’s fairly hard from you to break from when you lock yourself into them

When I said that I town read you, I was talking in past tense, meaning I used to but not anymore.

Only happens when I feel super confident in who I'm tunneling is scum. I've had past games when I've been completely unsure of my reads and had low confidence in who I was coming at is actually scum.

[Luxurious]

Bogus. Pick a name.

Question why are you focused on why my vote is currently there

And how would me picking a name at random be any better than like

Having my meaningless vote currently on you?

I’m focused on your vote being idle. I am not asking you to pick a random name.

Okay well give me some time to play catch up then

Reads on Dragomir and Epi, go.

Uh uh

Dragomir is playing weird but I think he’s started his tunnel on you which coincides with his last game pretty well so I’m gonna say town for now.

What is considered "normal" to you?

Asking questions, casting suspicion, engaging and reconsidering your reads

I’m like, aware town can slip into serious tunnels but I think that they also consider other people outside of that, while also doing everything else for said other people as listed above

[nutella]

[mention]Jackofhearts2005[/mention] you're not doing your town thang. You're mafia

[Sloonei]

@Luxurious I believe The Question you want answered is “Why don’t you inude posts where people outside of nutella start suspecting you?” If this is not the question you’re referring to, please point me in the right direction

The answer, believe it or not, is brevity. I didn’t think to include posts like that because it didn’t seem totally necessary. I was focusing on nutella, not Other People. But if I had my laptop right now I could highlight suspicions from Macdougall, Ultra (I think. Might be mixing him up with someone else), and Dragomir just off the top of my head. My concern at the time was that nutella had been keeping me at arm’s length while proclaiming a town read, but as soon as the opportunity arose to pile onto a case against me, she pounced.

I do not currently read nutella as scum and I am not currently operating under this assumption. But when I looked to nutella with an eye for suspicious behavior, that was a possibility which stood out to me.

Yah that was it.

And that’s fair. Nutella addressed it as well since she seemed to know what you were talking about. I am aware of the read swap you had because it is Very Apparent in your list

So was that a point you explicitly wanted nutella to respond to? Or was that iso made mostly as a “here’s why you too! Should scum read nutella!”

A little of both. When I post an ISO like that, especially on Day 0/1, it is with the intent of creating reaction from as many players as possible. I wanted nutella to respond to the post because her reaction would tell me more about her. I wanted everyone else to respond because their reactions would tell me more about them, and they could add their own points either for or against my case. The ball would be rolling in a productive direction. Like I said at the top of my nutella ISO, I never make a post like that with the idea in mind that I’m delivering any sort of Final Word on the issue. I see it as the beginning of a conversation.

Another question you asked (I think. Maybe I inferred it or took it from someone else) was “why do you only focus on the bad aspects in this ISO?”

To answer that, it’s because I’m trying to construct an argument for why my target (in that case, nutella) is bad. I usually ISO people with the intention of reading them as bad. If I find patterns or isolated moments that are consistent with the idea of that player being scum, I share them. It doesn’t mean I’m certain that person is bad or that I’m not considering alternatives.

[Luxurious]

So my scum read on Sloonei is based off his iso on Nutella and how trying to discredit my thoughts on him based on the last game.

The first one is because it felt completely fabricated and tryhard just to impress and get town cred. I felt like the whole schmick of it was to make it look like a in-depth analysis with all the wording he had, and the dissecting of every post to lead to the ultimate good of becoming a deep wolf and power wolf his way through starting D0. The iso is similar to what Nutella's iso on me the last game was. It looks deep and stuff from surface level, but looking below the surface, it comes straight outa left field.

The second is bad cause it's well just plain old discrediting to make my thoughts look worse than what they actually are(at least imo). Making the person doubt their reads and have others not look into it much. Seeing how I believed I played bad last game and made public of that, I can see scum taking advantage of this by saying that I'm doing the same thing as last game to get into my head.

Though my vote is not on him but instead Luxy. Why? I firmly do believe that she made a scum slip there and she didn't do a good job convincing me otherwise.

Dragomir at this point I gotta ask why you said you town read me then if you legitimately believe I’m scum and made an obvious slip. Like what purpose does that have.

Also I was also gonna argue that Sloonei didnt discrete you but he did say it directly. However he did have a point that I’ve even said before in regards to how you enter tunnels that it’s fairly hard from you to break from when you lock yourself into them

When I said that I town read you, I was talking in past tense, meaning I used to but not anymore.

Only happens when I feel super confident in who I'm tunneling is scum. I've had past games when I've been completely unsure of my reads and had low confidence in who I was coming at is actually scum.

Okay well I wanna know who you currently town read then

But also I did just play a game with you where all the people you were super tunneling were town. So I’m not fully inclined to give that one to you but I will Consider it when moving forward

[Sloonei]

Jackofhearts2005 you're not doing your town thang. You're mafia

What’s his town thang?

[Dragomir]

So my scum read on Sloonei is based off his iso on Nutella and how trying to discredit my thoughts on him based on the last game.

The first one is because it felt completely fabricated and tryhard just to impress and get town cred. I felt like the whole schmick of it was to make it look like a in-depth analysis with all the wording he had, and the dissecting of every post to lead to the ultimate good of becoming a deep wolf and power wolf his way through starting D0. The iso is similar to what Nutella's iso on me the last game was. It looks deep and stuff from surface level, but looking below the surface, it comes straight outa left field.

The second is bad cause it's well just plain old discrediting to make my thoughts look worse than what they actually are(at least imo). Making the person doubt their reads and have others not look into it much. Seeing how I believed I played bad last game and made public of that, I can see scum taking advantage of this by saying that I'm doing the same thing as last game to get into my head.

Though my vote is not on him but instead Luxy. Why? I firmly do believe that she made a scum slip there and she didn't do a good job convincing me otherwise.

Oh, one last thing to add, his wanting to do a GTH earlier. Mac already explained why that's pretty scummy so not gonna reiterate it.

I was not trying to discredit you when I brought up the scrimmage. I was sincerely just trying to help you.

What? You literally admitted to trying to discredit me in this post.

I am discrediting you because you are suspecting me. I’ve responded to every point you’ve expressed against me and you’ve just come back with additional points or refused to budge. I’m telling you that you’re wrong after having addressed every other point. You are wrong about me. Please at least entertain me and pretend that I’m town.

I was flustered because you came at me like a whirlwind. I tried to emphasize in that post that you were leaving me no choice but to discredit you, because you were tunneling me in the same way (I perceived) you to be tunneling your suspects last game. You implied you wanted to improve from that performance. I have been trying to help you.

Ok, don't really what to think of this but aight. There's 2 sides of it, my side where you were trying to discredit me in the naughty sense or you're trying to help me.

You first say that you were trying to discredit me with no implication that you were doing to help me out but now you're trying to paint as a good thing under the umbrella of "trying to help" to lessen the actual severity of your discredit post. All that, looks bad. But I won't tunnel you. I'll keep observing.

[Luxurious]

@Luxurious I believe The Question you want answered is “Why don’t you inude posts where people outside of nutella start suspecting you?” If this is not the question you’re referring to, please point me in the right direction

The answer, believe it or not, is brevity. I didn’t think to include posts like that because it didn’t seem totally necessary. I was focusing on nutella, not Other People. But if I had my laptop right now I could highlight suspicions from Macdougall, Ultra (I think. Might be mixing him up with someone else), and Dragomir just off the top of my head. My concern at the time was that nutella had been keeping me at arm’s length while proclaiming a town read, but as soon as the opportunity arose to pile onto a case against me, she pounced.

I do not currently read nutella as scum and I am not currently operating under this assumption. But when I looked to nutella with an eye for suspicious behavior, that was a possibility which stood out to me.

Yah that was it.

And that’s fair. Nutella addressed it as well since she seemed to know what you were talking about. I am aware of the read swap you had because it is Very Apparent in your list

So was that a point you explicitly wanted nutella to respond to? Or was that iso made mostly as a “here’s why you too! Should scum read nutella!”

A little of both. When I post an ISO like that, especially on Day 0/1, it is with the intent of creating reaction from as many players as possible. I wanted nutella to respond to the post because her reaction would tell me more about her. I wanted everyone else to respond because their reactions would tell me more about them, and they could add their own points either for or against my case. The ball would be rolling in a productive direction. Like I said at the top of my nutella ISO, I never make a post like that with the idea in mind that I’m delivering any sort of Final Word on the issue. I see it as the beginning of a conversation.

Another question you asked (I think. Maybe I inferred it or took it from someone else) was “why do you only focus on the bad aspects in this ISO?”

To answer that, it’s because I’m trying to construct an argument for why my target (in that case, nutella) is bad. I usually ISO people with the intention of reading them as bad. If I find patterns or isolated moments that are consistent with the idea of that player being scum, I share them. It doesn’t mean I’m certain that person is bad or that I’m not considering alternatives.

Okay that’s fair

My issue re:Iso’s is the fact that it’s hard to see that thought process when you’re not the person making the ISO, so it looks a bit suspect.

Like I’ve seen iso’s by players (not JJJ and were actually town) where they considered both sides of the coin, and then presented the argument where the bad outweighs the good. It allows people to engage with a “okay yeah but x makes them town.” “Yes but y does the opposite of that and makes them scum as you can see here” so idk maybe I’m idealistic

But I do think MM coming back and reading your iso and going “actually the good outweighs the bad” is a genuine thought even without the information considering the progression he had in the thread

[nutella]

Jackofhearts2005 you're not doing your town thang. You're mafia

What’s his town thang?

doing stuff. posting. expressing thoughts. making jokes. memeing. giffing. teasing people. typing words in the reply box and hitting submit. literally anything more than what he has been doing, which is tunneling one person and not really making comments about anything else and sitting back avoiding participation.

[Dragomir]

Question why are you focused on why my vote is currently there

And how would me picking a name at random be any better than like

Having my meaningless vote currently on you?

I’m focused on your vote being idle. I am not asking you to pick a random name.

Okay well give me some time to play catch up then

Reads on Dragomir and Epi, go.

Uh uh

Dragomir is playing weird but I think he’s started his tunnel on you which coincides with his last game pretty well so I’m gonna say town for now.

What is considered "normal" to you?

Asking questions, casting suspicion, engaging and reconsidering your reads

I’m like, aware town can slip into serious tunnels but I think that they also consider other people outside of that, while also doing everything else for said other people as listed above

All of that stuff comes under prodding. I'm not a townie who prods player. I've never been good at it nor am I at pressuring another player. Though, I am trying to learn how to do it. But first game I tried it, I got mislynched D1 so...

[Sloonei]

@

I've been waiting 3 hours for someone to ask that!
stand by.

Okay @MafiaMenace

Please tell me how this makes you feel

theres a difference between your case and sloons

sloon never baited a response, it was a barebones readslist that some people might not have questioned

even if you want to argue that they did bait a question, they had a lot of points to back it up while you had maybe a sentence

I wasnt really asking for a comparison but fair enough regardless

I was more just asking your opinion about it but uh hm

Obviously he had the ISO prepared but you think he’s town because when asked he had a full list ready to go?

actually yeah sloonei why didnt you just post it?
it would come across much more townier

Because not posting it forces people to react (or distinctly not react. I wanted to see who would take notice, who would inquire, and who would overlook/ignore it. These are all things that can be very informative later on, especially if Luxurious were to flip scum.

So what are you thinking about those who did the bolded?

Nothing specific yet. I don’t know if it means anything. Luxurious could be town, in which case several people didn’t take notice that I suddenly suspected a civilian most of all. That could just mean they didn’t care. But if they didn’t care, they might be more likely to be town themselves; scum would have been intrigued by the sudden appearance of a new suspect from The Loudest Guy In the Room.