Girl Genius (END)

[Epignosis]

Okay we’re lynching Luna today. If anyone has a reason not to lynch Luna speak now.

Seeing as the day’s plan is clear, let’s try to not waste the day and pretend Luna has just died and we’re doing night 3 analysis, seeing that the thread is locked during night 3.

If Luna flips scum I think Creature is the obvious target day 4 but I don’t think that’s the right one.

I'd rather she be vigged. She's practically confirmed scum in everyone's eyes based on a possible red peek. I don't really see any info her lynch could gain so she's better off vigged while others who provide more info should be lynched.

This is also suspicious to me. A mafioso who feels he is in a good place can redirect the lynch while recommending a civilian kill (and potentially waste a shot on) Lunalee.

[Epignosis]

Okay we’re lynching Luna today. If anyone has a reason not to lynch Luna speak now.

Seeing as the day’s plan is clear, let’s try to not waste the day and pretend Luna has just died and we’re doing night 3 analysis, seeing that the thread is locked during night 3.

If Luna flips scum I think Creature is the obvious target day 4 but I don’t think that’s the right one.

I'd rather she be vigged. She's practically confirmed scum in everyone's eyes based on a possible red peek. I don't really see any info her lynch could gain so she's better off vigged while others who provide more info should be lynched.

I just saw a very good movie with Brad Pitt and then I have to come read this and be like “that seems dumb but maybe?” and then I have to go check the role list and find out that the mafia has a doctor so maybe that’s just not the best idea in the world.

But yes in theory in a setup with dumping and all vanilla roles except 1 shot cop and 1 shot vig the vig waits on the cop night 1 and then takes the shot night 2 if necessary. I think. Discuss.

I liked Brad as Achilles in Troy. Super-awesome.

Why is a lynch better than a vig shot for gaining info, when roles are revealed by night and by day?

Vig shots are always inherently more unreliable than lynches even in the hands of the best players so there’s a safety argument but here most of today is going to waste while we wait for the match to set off Luna, no discussion about the lynch or much anything else. If we pretend she’s off the table then it’s like “oh look at that we can have discussions yay we’re town pay no attention to the obvious mafia member we just somehow saved.”

To actually answer the question let’s say there’s player X who has a 60 percent chance of being scum and player Y who has a 95 percent chance of being scum. The obvious lynch is player Y, it’d be by unanimous vote, nothing could be deduced from the discussion or the voting record, and the vig is left to kill player X. If X flips town, rough life but there’s no additional scrutiny for those who pushed the X is scum theory. If X is scum there’s no scrutiny for those who pushed X is town.

At no point in any of this do I see Tony taking the initiative to talk about suspects besides Lunalee.

[Epignosis]

RIP Doctor and Vigilante. That sucks. BUT Luna was Zola, and everyone rejoiced, right? We can all put aside our differences and raise a glass to that evil role being gone. Thank you, Epi!

I don't like this. The thank you Epi feels like you are happy that he's gone.

The main mafia team is still mostly at large. There's no time to celebrate yet.

You are too calm at the moment.

Too calm? This entire thread has been asleep, likely because they've been treated to a Tony/LC Chess match.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Owner, Creature, no. Take a step back, and come back trying harder.

Is this all you got? But still I don't get why you are celebrating when we have only killed one mafia so far this game and most of our thanks for that was likely because of nova.

Tbf, we’ve eliminated two roles that are really really difficult to eliminate and can singlehandedly win the game.

The traitor might eat a bullet or get lynched later but the cult leader going early is reason to celebrate and we now aren’t going to have to worry about lynching the last wolf and then immediately losing anyway.

Yeah, we should lynch a wolf today. Yeah, it would be nice if the sker shot another.

I disagree that only a scum player would be happy about the lynches so far.

[Jackofhearts2005]

@TonyStarkPrime you voted for Jack pretty early today. I looked through your ISO but didn't see anything about him. Can you talk to me about your vote?

Juliets not with jack?

hmm

or maybe juliets with jack looking at tony for clarification? hmm

I probably need to look at timmer more as well...derp

Or is jack scum too? *sorry i'm rambling out loud again*

[Jackofhearts2005]

Didn't we used to have multiquote?

[Epignosis]

If anyone wants to win, there's a good chance they needed Luna dead. Even a team playing a near-perfect game would be sandbagged by her in the end. It's a cruel role, a backstabbing win-stealer.

I don't get why you are taking my celebration of Zola's death and shaming me for not respecting the gravity of the situation. What are you, the fun police?

Why are you defensive? That is unnecessary.

I don't really think I was. However, calling someone out as "defensive" IS something I have used before, as mafia, to shade a player. (Epi am I using that word wrong?)

You used the word "defensive" perfectly. Two gold stars.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Freddy mechanics would be nice in a game like this.

What are Freddy mechanics?

RIP nova and quin, sad to see you both go.

I think he’s referring to a player from HCRealms, Fredwood. I’m guessing he’s known for mechanical analysis. He’s played a few games here.

Now tell me who you’ll belooking at today, juliets.

Oh that’s not it. I do miss Fred though. We played in the hydra championship on mafiauniverse and that was the least fun game I’ve ever played in my life I’ve never seen so many people go berserk.

Jack can you explain this one
Jackofhearts2005

Really not liking the immediate hop onto LC. His first post today was scummy but I’m of the opinion that it’s easy to read every single death reaction post as scummy if so inclined.

Yeah, I'm kinda trying to decide what to make of Owner and Drago.

I tend to think Drago and Creature both get flack for style and Owner looks kinda townie for the weird stream of consciousness posting.

But LC does not merit 3 votes off his entrance and him getting 3 votes is setting off alarm bells.

[Dyslexicon]

Weeeeee

[Epignosis]

Excellent. I have opinions again.

[Dyslexicon]

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

Why has we not died the creature?

[Dyslexicon]

I didn't really read much after D1, but I know who was lynched and NKed. Goooood lynching Nutella cause I hate cults

[Jackofhearts2005]

To be real clear, accusing someone, voting for them and calling them defensive when they respond to your criticism is not hunting in good faith because the logic flows like this.

Call someone scum and vote for them -> They do nothing -> They get lynched

OR

Call someone scum and vote for them -> They defend themselves -> They are defensive and therefore scum -> They should be lynched

The conclusion is the same regardless of how the accused player reacts and regardless of the accused player's alignment.

I don't like seeing players called "defensive."

Linki: Has Dizzy always been in this game?

[Epignosis]

[VOTE: Creature] aubergine

Why has we not died the creature?

What is the evidence to lynch Creature?

[Dyslexicon]

What is the evidence to lynch Creature?

The evidence is that I was suspicious of him and then I died.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Sloonei was replaced by Dyslexicon

I'm aware some people dislike dead replacements, but I dislike modkills even more, so bare with me. Thanks for understanding.

Again, Dyslexicon cannot be lynched this day.

After this game, I would love to have a conversation about the balance implications of replacing a player with a dead player and saying replacements can't be lynched on the phase they replace in.

I'm not saying this is a problem. I'm saying I want to talk about it when it doesn't have a direct effect on an ongoing game.

[Dyslexicon]

Also from where I left off I had Tony and Owner as likely town.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Spoiler: show

Especially when dealing with straight facts.

You haven't presented a single one.

I'm cool with dragomir, lunalee or nutella going. Maybe creature.

Do you any preference?

I kept my vote where it was and I'm happy with the result.

Tag me when someone does something worth reading

Does Mac leave the work to others a lot?

No.

Fuck me im not caught up. Point me towards the cases on Luna and Drago (or whoever).

lol this reeks.

On my note about it being worth noticing if JoH ever catches back up etc.

......hello-o-ooo??!?? kinda expected to have more to read here lol

I am not going to argue with it since I am so far behind.

I don't see much progress from here. Just one thing where he asked lunalee to respond to a point he made.

Yeah sue me.

ok [VOTE: jackofhearts] aubergine

......that's not even a case

and yet it nailed you-- didn't it?

it's literally just a summary of my posts there is no thesis

sometimes you don't need to be so arrogant to arrive at an errant conclusion.

I am back. Who should I vote for?

not me.

Watch me fuck this up.

This is not tmi but rather a losing streak eating my self confidence.

....yikes

[VOTE: luna] aubergine

nutella’s vote for me is silly, but they always are. Why does she have votes?

Cause she’s contributing nothing and throwing shade.

I took a quick glance at her posts and did not get this impression.

A few things that have been said about luna looked good to me, and she made one post earlier that looked like mafia trying to downplay suspicion. That constitutes a strong vote for me at this moment in time.

She’s called me scum twice for no good reason.

There's reason.
She needed to go, but she wasn't wrong about you.


let's remmeber nutella was bad.
where does that lead us?

Some of this looks pretty decent (thanks Dom), jack being pretty willing to vote almost anywhere probably looks like the worst statement from them.

Vote pretty much anywhere? You mean among a couple now dead scum players?

[Dyslexicon]

After this game, I would love to have a conversation about the balance implications of replacing a player with a dead player and saying replacements can't be lynched on the phase they replace in.

I'm not saying this is a problem. I'm saying I want to talk about it when it doesn't have a direct effect on an ongoing game.

You can NK me though <3

(But seriously, I had discussions about dead player replacing in before, and there's definitely things one can discuss. But since I was asked I answered.)

[Dyslexicon]

Linki: Has Dizzy always been in this game?

Are you trying to derp that you didn't NK me?

[Dyslexicon]

Also, remember when Rej was lynched and nobody cared? Good times.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Lunalee, yesterday I read your explanation for your vote as sincere but today I have to question my judgement because Epi is dead.

This quote is Epi's boiled down version of why he found you to be bad. I need to understand points 2 and 4 a little better.

You are at a wedding and it is about to begin. You do not feel well informed on the game. Why would you go to the trouble of getting on your phone, at a wedding, and place a vote in those circumstances, especially such a critical vote? Why not forego the vote and let everyone know afterwords time got away from you and you were not in a circumstance where you could place a vote, plus you were not comfortable the you had your facts straight? Can you see why that looks odd?

I don't think this is a fair criticism.

Mafia is more important than weddings. If Luna hadn't cast her vote, she'd have been lynched. So you're basically making the argument that Luna should die or Luna should die.

Which is fine if that's because you scumread her so much but it's getting the cart before the horse or whatever the appropriate metaphor is.

I'm saying this looks like distancing.

Wait, what? She would have been lynched? I'll look back at the vote count but I don't think you are correct on that.

Maybe I'm not. I thought Luna and Nutella were basically tied at eod.

You're just looking at the wrong day. Luna's vote at the wedding happened Day 1 so thats the vote total you want to take a look at.

Okay then I resend the wolf points I gave you.

The language here indicates that Jack is giving the points back to juliets, not taking them away.

For all intensive purposes, Epi, it's the same thing.

Linki: Fucking maybe I am.

[Dyslexicon]

Oh wait, Drag might be scum.

[Epignosis]

Civilian kill victims:

Dyslexicon
Epignosis
MacDougall
nova
Quin

That's pretty much Syndicate regulars. Help me interpret this.

[Epignosis]

I don't think this is a fair criticism.

Mafia is more important than weddings. If Luna hadn't cast her vote, she'd have been lynched. So you're basically making the argument that Luna should die or Luna should die.

Which is fine if that's because you scumread her so much but it's getting the cart before the horse or whatever the appropriate metaphor is.

I'm saying this looks like distancing.

Wait, what? She would have been lynched? I'll look back at the vote count but I don't think you are correct on that.

Maybe I'm not. I thought Luna and Nutella were basically tied at eod.

You're just looking at the wrong day. Luna's vote at the wedding happened Day 1 so thats the vote total you want to take a look at.

Okay then I resend the wolf points I gave you.

The language here indicates that Jack is giving the points back to juliets, not taking them away.

For all intensive purposes, Epi, it's the same thing.

Linki: Fucking maybe I am.

I knew I liked you.

[Dyslexicon]

I think Timmer was also on my town list for interaction with Rej. I may or may not catch up on what I've missed.

[Epignosis]

People I currently suspect:

Tony
Dragomir
sabie
timmer
sprityo

[Epignosis]

I think Timmer was also on my town list for interaction with Rej. I may or may not catch up on what I've missed.

It'll take you longer to have a cigarette than it will to catch up.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Okay we’re lynching Luna today. If anyone has a reason not to lynch Luna speak now.

Seeing as the day’s plan is clear, let’s try to not waste the day and pretend Luna has just died and we’re doing night 3 analysis, seeing that the thread is locked during night 3.

If Luna flips scum I think Creature is the obvious target day 4 but I don’t think that’s the right one.

I'd rather she be vigged. She's practically confirmed scum in everyone's eyes based on a possible red peek. I don't really see any info her lynch could gain so she's better off vigged while others who provide more info should be lynched.

This is also suspicious to me. A mafioso who feels he is in a good place can redirect the lynch while recommending a civilian kill (and potentially waste a shot on) Lunalee.

How is that better for the scum than just lynching Luna?

[Dyslexicon]

Civilian kill victims:

Dyslexicon
Epignosis
MacDougall
nova
Quin

That's pretty much Syndicate regulars. Help me interpret this.

They kill the prettiest ones.

(I'm more of a "sometimes" player here though (???) I assumed I was killed for being obvious town and arguing for lynching off Rej)

[Dyslexicon]

I think Timmer was also on my town list for interaction with Rej. I may or may not catch up on what I've missed.

It'll take you longer to have a cigarette than it will to catch up.

Good, cause I don't smoke. You know what annoys me? A slacking town annoys me. You know what I felt town was doing D1? Slacking.

[Epignosis]

I think Timmer was also on my town list for interaction with Rej. I may or may not catch up on what I've missed.

It'll take you longer to have a cigarette than it will to catch up.

Good, cause I don't smoke. You know what annoys me? A slacking town annoys me. You know what I felt town was doing D1? Slacking.

Day 1? Is that all?

[Dyslexicon]

Day 1? Is that all?

That's when I was alive, so yes.
Can you talk to me about why you suspect Tony and Timmer? Also, who did you replace again?

[Jackofhearts2005]

After this game, I would love to have a conversation about the balance implications of replacing a player with a dead player and saying replacements can't be lynched on the phase they replace in.

I'm not saying this is a problem. I'm saying I want to talk about it when it doesn't have a direct effect on an ongoing game.

You can NK me though <3

(But seriously, I had discussions about dead player replacing in before, and there's definitely things one can discuss. But since I was asked I answered.)

The long and the short of my opinion is "scum players should have to approve replacements consisting of any players they had any hand in eliminating."

Like if I'm scum and I eliminate a player because they are a scary townie or because they suspect me, the host should not then put them right back in the game.

But if the sker kills that same scary player, wolf Jack shouldn't have a say in them coming back or not.

Also, I just find the "no lynching replacements" thing fascinating and haven't played out the game theory of what that would mean for a game. I think that shouldn't happen at lylo and there are some problematic things like a red peeked wolf vigilante replacing out and now the town can't lynch them and the wolves get an extra kill via replacement. Overall, I do think giving replacements a free day is certainly a nice thing to do for replacements. Like replacing in and getting lynched for scummy things the old player did sucks and that's one reason players don't like to sign up as replacements. Another is having to act without catching up and this gives the players a guaranteed amount of time to catch up and then make an impact.

So it's probably a net positive except in some corner cases.

[Epignosis]

Day 1? Is that all?

That's when I was alive, so yes.
Can you talk to me about why you suspect Tony and Timmer? Also, who did you replace again?

The Rain Song.

Yes, I'll elaborate on those two directly.

[Dyslexicon]

I'm legit sad that people thought I was killed for "Indy suspicion". If that is it ...wow

[Epignosis]

Instead of answering your question Dyslexicon, I'd like people to participate in an exercise.

For those willing to participate, go through Tony's posts (there's 80 or so) and make a list of hard stances Tony has taken.

[Dyslexicon]

The long and the short of my opinion is "scum players should have to approve replacements consisting of any players they had any hand in eliminating."

Like if I'm scum and I eliminate a player because they are a scary townie or because they suspect me, the host should not then put them right back in the game.

But if the sker kills that same scary player, wolf Jack shouldn't have a say in them coming back or not.

Also, I just find the "no lynching replacements" thing fascinating and haven't played out the game theory of what that would mean for a game. I think that shouldn't happen at lylo and there are some problematic things like a red peeked wolf vigilante replacing out and now the town can't lynch them and the wolves get an extra kill via replacement. Overall, I do think giving replacements a free day is certainly a nice thing to do for replacements. Like replacing in and getting lynched for scummy things the old player did sucks and that's one reason players don't like to sign up as replacements. Another is having to act without catching up and this gives the players a guaranteed amount of time to catch up and then make an impact.

So it's probably a net positive except in some corner cases.

I agree, and actually think players shouldn't come back in general, cause NK-ing specific players is part of scum's strategy. But if that is the only way to not have the game go awry because of multiple inactives, then it may be the lesser evil. I've never seen the "can't be lynched" thing. Don't have much opinions on it other than it seems a bit weird. But right now I'm just going to play again /shrugface

[Dyslexicon]

Instead of answering your question Dyslexicon, I'd like people to participate in an exercise.

For those willing to participate, go through Tony's posts (there's 80 or so) and make a list of hard stances Tony has taken.

Funny, cause I just read a post where Owner said that Tony didn't rock the boat enough. Also didn't Creature have psychic energy with Tony, or was it with Drag?

I'll catch up first and then take a second look on Tony. I don't have meta on Tony, so would be much obliged if anyone cares to say a few words about that.

[Epignosis]

"Civilians are being lazy and not finding mafia."

"I agree. Let's discuss the pros and cons of dead people subbing in."

[Epignosis]

I'm less suspicious of timmer than I was after going through his posts. I don't know how I feel about that.

[Epignosis]

Dyslexicon, what's your opinion on Sloonei?

[Dyslexicon]

D2 stuff

A lot of things regarding dead players..
Owner looking in Sig's posts, and I'm pretty sure Owner is town.

So anyone thinks me correctly declaring Rej town but failing to save him to be scum?

*raises hand* o.o

Wish Dizzy were here then I'd ask him if this clash is similar to the kind of clashes that Alles and I had.

But since he's dead, I guess I'll just have mull over whether or not juliets is being defensive in a good or bad way.

I'm here again! <3
I remember the juliet/Nova interaction you're quoting here. At the time it made me a little more paranoid on Nova, cause he seemed to be backtracking on his push a bit (but Nova confirmed town now). Don't know what it says about juliets, but I remember not really liking her case on Rej D1 because it sounded "easy". I'll see if I find the post. I'm still a bit salty about Rej, my hero.

I don’t want to lynch Creature cause he’s mislynch bait on this site.

This true? Do you still have no read on Creature?

[Dyslexicon]

Dyslexicon, what's your opinion on Sloonei?

A good dog and a handsome gentleman. I was actually going to ISO him to see his stances, cause I believe he's not a noob and also know most players. On my homesite we have QTs (personal private chats) where you can leave thoughts for replacements. He voted me D1 though, so that's an inception kind of moment. =p

[Dyslexicon]

"Civilians are being lazy and not finding mafia."

"I agree. Let's discuss the pros and cons of dead people subbing in."

Gurl. I'm chatty ok

[Epignosis]

Dyslexicon, what's your opinion on Sloonei?

A good dog and a handsome gentleman. I was actually going to ISO him to see his stances, cause I believe he's not a noob and also know most players. On my homesite we have QTs (personal private chats) where you can leave thoughts for replacements. He voted me D1 though, so that's an inception kind of moment. =p

Was worth a shot.

[Dragomir]

This might come off as sheepish but Idc. [VOTE: long Con] aubergine

Didn't like his entrance.

What's wrong with Dom novaselinenever?

Or should we be taking a look at Dom and Dragomir because of nova dying? hmm

Why am I in this equation? There's nothing wrong with my post.

Sometimes, scum will ask town players why they are suspicious of their partner. Other times, scum will ask town player A about town player B that town player A seems to be suspicious of. The scum in this instance would be gathering information and reasons to also suspect town player B.

^^ This mentions 2 reasons why you are in that equation.

Or Townie's will ask other players why they sus someone to see what's it all about. The townie in this equation would be gathering information and see if they can get on the right path.

[Dragomir]

Okay we’re lynching Luna today. If anyone has a reason not to lynch Luna speak now.

Seeing as the day’s plan is clear, let’s try to not waste the day and pretend Luna has just died and we’re doing night 3 analysis, seeing that the thread is locked during night 3.

If Luna flips scum I think Creature is the obvious target day 4 but I don’t think that’s the right one.

I'd rather she be vigged. She's practically confirmed scum in everyone's eyes based on a possible red peek. I don't really see any info her lynch could gain so she's better off vigged while others who provide more info should be lynched.

This is also suspicious to me. A mafioso who feels he is in a good place can redirect the lynch while recommending a civilian kill (and potentially waste a shot on) Lunalee.

What makes you think that I feel like I'm a good place?

[Epignosis]

Okay we’re lynching Luna today. If anyone has a reason not to lynch Luna speak now.

Seeing as the day’s plan is clear, let’s try to not waste the day and pretend Luna has just died and we’re doing night 3 analysis, seeing that the thread is locked during night 3.

If Luna flips scum I think Creature is the obvious target day 4 but I don’t think that’s the right one.

I'd rather she be vigged. She's practically confirmed scum in everyone's eyes based on a possible red peek. I don't really see any info her lynch could gain so she's better off vigged while others who provide more info should be lynched.

This is also suspicious to me. A mafioso who feels he is in a good place can redirect the lynch while recommending a civilian kill (and potentially waste a shot on) Lunalee.

What makes you think that I feel like I'm a good place?

Are you?

[Dyslexicon]

D3 stuff

Well dang, I just looked again - we lynched nutella not Luna.

Lol. Maybe juliets is town or at least not mafia, think mafia would be aware of who's lynched and not

Imma bus you anyway.

This to Luna I don't like considering she flipped Indy

Hi again everyone ^^

Was Luna red checked indeed?
I liked few of her posts like not coming from scum mindset

Also don't like this. "Red checked? I like her posts." What did you like about them?