Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:13 pm
The derp of it all! I think I want to go with it tbh
Actually, my thoughts still hold true, a bit.
In short, reading juliets' posts, shes been taking very light but easily changed-if-need-be stances in the game, except as soon as it seems like a lynch train is clearly going to happen, she firms up. Her thoughts on rej firmed up after things went his way, and her thoughts on Luna changed to firm as soon as day 3 went in that direction but on day 2 juliets was more hedgy because there was no clear safe target.
Also juliets has been away from keyboard in the game a few times, I could easily see a baddie chatroom where the last thing she remembered was them thinking Luna was going to be lynched and then the poll tied up after. If, in fact, the votes swung to nutella late to make the tie, I'd say that's actually pretty likely.
Juliets doesn't easily derp.
The derp was referring to you here actually. =p
The way I thought Juliets derped was because she thought Luna was the lynch over a whole night. I don't really think this is something that mafia don't mention at all when talking at night? Unless mafia is exactly Juliets and inactive as hell people. Or she could still be SK I guess.
juliets wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:47 pm
Rej, I went back over your case again and have re-printed it here below in the spoiler. I don't rule out changing my mind about you but I see a lot of things in your case about timmer that just don't make sense. Plus, I'm really stuck on the fact you voted timmer just because he told you to read the thread. It looked like an overreaction or as I said earlier, that ya'll are teammates. Please answer my questions after the spoiler about your case.
Rej wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:12 pm
@timmer
I am still convinced that you are bad, the way the wagon got turned on me is prove enough.
First of all: You were also one of those that didn't fully track D0, so in order for you to contribute you jumped on my bait question and threw shades on me for not reading up myself. But at that point you also weren't updated, so if you were a civ that didn't catch up in the thread, then you should follow the same interest as me.
What I see you being an extremly opportunistic player and that this doesn't follow a civillian mindset. First your jump on my bait, then you magically getting rid of my wagon is well played. But tbh only the baddies play like that.
I will tell you what will happen: I will get lynched this DP, while my vote stays on you. And after that it will be clear that our case is V/W case.
A V/W case where the wolf is totally opportunistic going against civillians.
I think I described it correctly, what do you think?
So here are some things I just don't get:
1. Why are you calling your question about someone summarizing Day 0 a "bait" question? Bait for what? It looked like a normal question from someone who was not caught up.
2. You said timmer threw shade at you but I didn't see his comment that it was just 4 pages you could read it as shade. You said "if you were a civ that didn't catch up in the thread, then you should follow the same interest as me." What does that mean, follow the same interest as you?
2. What do you mean when you say timmer "got rid of your wagon"? I don't remember there being a wagon on timmer. The paragraph did not make sense to me.
3. At the end you call timmer totally opportunistic. I don't get that - can you explain further? You voted for him first, not the other way around.
This is the one post I remember not liking from Juliets on D1. Still don't really like it, mostly because Rej was kind of an "easy" case to make logically, but should imo be read town tonally. I don't know Juliets as a player, so meta is appreciated. Her tone here and I think for most of the game has been pretty calm and mild.
Quin wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:27 pmthank you for the recommendation
You're welcome, Quinbot. Vote Creature with me?
meh
Lunalee wrote: ↑Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:13 amQuin's ISO is full of posts that are actually trying to be helpful to the game. This doesn't look like town Quin.
I still don't like the Rej wagon. I can see Timmer and Juliets as not mafia because of derps. That leaves Dom and Drag. Dom directly brushed off a defense of Rej. Iirc Drag was even around at the very end of day 1 and Rej said that Drag should know he was town because he knew Rej, and I remember I asked Drag about what he thought about Rej/if it was still a good lynch, but I never got an answer although I'm pretty sure he popped in late day (I'll double check that)
I think it's likely that Creature is scum with either Drag or both Drag and Dom.
timmer wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:56 am
I'd actively like to hear from mr. Dragomir...
I wanted rej to open up a bit about the game, because we've all blindered ourselves as civs at least once, and I thought posts about others might give us a better picture.
Well here he says dragomir should be able to read his meta and know that this is a civ rej move... So, id like to hear about this from dragomir, who sure went quiet after it seemed like this Lynch was a done deal.
The flip side to this? Rej finding only something to say about someone who is voting him is s bit self serving and calculated, so I'm definitely not moving my vote at this time.
This would be the first time I've seen Rej hand out town reads in such a manner.
Drag jumps into the game on D1 after about 24 hours to post this one response. I immediately say hi and what do you think about Rej's latest posts, cause I thought he was town and Rej had already said that Drag should know him better. But Drag doesn't post anything after this. [mention]Dragomir[/mention] Any comments to this? Did you see my questions to you back then?
Jackofhearts2005 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:02 am
You asked earlier. I now have a light townread on Creature for him trying to make something happen, even if I disagree with him.
I'm aware that's a low bar.
What did he make happen? The LC wagon or something else?
Nothing. He’s just trying.
Then again, he hasn’t posted most the day so scratch that as that’s scumCreature meta.
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:26 pm
Numbers are 10 town, 4 mafia and 1 SK.
I recommend we lynch scum today. Lol multiball, cause there's only been one mislynch, but still numbers aren't that great.
timmer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:07 pm
Fuck, I had a whole thing about how it seemed like juliets and Luna were linked but that's because I thought Luna was on the baddie team but now I see she was an indy so it makes no sense.
timmer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:07 pm
Fuck, I had a whole thing about how it seemed like juliets and Luna were linked but that's because I thought Luna was on the baddie team but now I see she was an indy so it makes no sense.
timmer wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:07 pm
Fuck, I had a whole thing about how it seemed like juliets and Luna were linked but that's because I thought Luna was on the baddie team but now I see she was an indy so it makes no sense.
PoE is like Creature, Drag, Dom, Michelle, Sabie, Sprit, Quinbot (last three more for lack of info) and maybe Tony (not sure)
Light town on Jack and Epi, LC probably town, derp town on Timmer and Juliets (or not mafia), town on Owner.
timmer wrote: ↑Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:56 am
I'd actively like to hear from mr. Dragomir...
I wanted rej to open up a bit about the game, because we've all blindered ourselves as civs at least once, and I thought posts about others might give us a better picture.
Well here he says dragomir should be able to read his meta and know that this is a civ rej move... So, id like to hear about this from dragomir, who sure went quiet after it seemed like this Lynch was a done deal.
The flip side to this? Rej finding only something to say about someone who is voting him is s bit self serving and calculated, so I'm definitely not moving my vote at this time.
This would be the first time I've seen Rej hand out town reads in such a manner.
Drag jumps into the game on D1 after about 24 hours to post this one response. I immediately say hi and what do you think about Rej's latest posts, cause I thought he was town and Rej had already said that Drag should know him better. But Drag doesn't post anything after this. @Dragomir Any comments to this? Did you see my questions to you back then?
I did. Just didn't feel like answering. Nothing personal.
juliets wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:32 pm
Jackofhearts2005, I took a look at your ISO to see why you were voting Dom and all I saw was the quote you called player salad. I saw where you liked his case about nutella. Was the player salad post enough to convince you he is bad? It seems kinda weak to me but maybe I missed something when I did his ISO.
Tony outlined some stuff from Dom that doesn’t really look pure in addition to the salad.
In particular, I’m not a fan of him being like “Nutella is bad for saying people are bad for no reason instead of hunting” Nutella being like “Yeah Jack is bad for no reason” Nutella being lynched as cult and then Dom being like “Nutella has a point on Jack tho.”
Like wut? The entire reason we lynched Nutella was that she didn’t have a point. Not just on me, either.
Feels like not a real thing for Dom to suspect me for.
Yes after I read Tony's ISO I realized you probably had taken note of his points. I also understand what you are saying about the "nutella has a point about Jack". I just didn't put that together for some reason.
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:24 pmAlways good to remember that there is no such thing as a Mafia circumstance that is worth real human emotion. Sometimes it will naturally come out, but it can be contained if we just remember that this is a game on a message board forum that 99.99% of the population of the Earth has never heard of before. No matter how successful anyone is, it means just about nothing.
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:13 pm
The derp of it all! I think I want to go with it tbh
Actually, my thoughts still hold true, a bit.
In short, reading juliets' posts, shes been taking very light but easily changed-if-need-be stances in the game, except as soon as it seems like a lynch train is clearly going to happen, she firms up. Her thoughts on rej firmed up after things went his way, and her thoughts on Luna changed to firm as soon as day 3 went in that direction but on day 2 juliets was more hedgy because there was no clear safe target.
Also juliets has been away from keyboard in the game a few times, I could easily see a baddie chatroom where the last thing she remembered was them thinking Luna was going to be lynched and then the poll tied up after. If, in fact, the votes swung to nutella late to make the tie, I'd say that's actually pretty likely.
Juliets doesn't easily derp.
timmer, I was in two games and getting crucified in the other during the earlier days of this game so that might be why you are interpreting my stances as light in this one. I just didn't have as much time to devote here. I was nk'd in that one though so I'm now all in in this one.
I'm not sure what you mean about me being afk a few times. Hasn't everybody? I have my volunteer work, my leg rehab and other things that have to be attended to, I can't be on here all the time. The derp on Luna was just that - there is no chat room for me and I don't know why you would think that would be "pretty likely".
I think you will see some differences now that I've only got one game though I will still not be here all the time.
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:24 pmAlways good to remember that there is no such thing as a Mafia circumstance that is worth real human emotion. Sometimes it will naturally come out, but it can be contained if we just remember that this is a game on a message board forum that 99.99% of the population of the Earth has never heard of before. No matter how successful anyone is, it means just about nothing.
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:24 pmAlways good to remember that there is no such thing as a Mafia circumstance that is worth real human emotion. Sometimes it will naturally come out, but it can be contained if we just remember that this is a game on a message board forum that 99.99% of the population of the Earth has never heard of before. No matter how successful anyone is, it means just about nothing.
Creature wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:52 pm
Wished I could just get out of this game.
[mention]Creature[/mention], earlier in this game I saw you as town but as I stated in the thread at the time, there was more information that I didn't want to reveal. What I was talking about was your behavior as scum down the road in Arrowverse, specifically you started out fine with all those one line posts you do but then by Day 3 you had petered out and then ultimately got replaced. Your behavior in this game now reminds me of that one. You didn't post at all Day 3 that I saw and I didn't see any reason you weren't here. Now you are moaning that you don't want to be here. Why should I still believe you are town? Isn't your behavior here like it was in Arrowverse?
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:24 pmAlways good to remember that there is no such thing as a Mafia circumstance that is worth real human emotion. Sometimes it will naturally come out, but it can be contained if we just remember that this is a game on a message board forum that 99.99% of the population of the Earth has never heard of before. No matter how successful anyone is, it means just about nothing.
Dyslexicon wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:01 pm
Would Timmer potentially fake this as scum?
I'll actually answer this, lol. When I'm bad I tend to be pretty invested in a game, and the last game I played we had a whole set of deliberate "fucking phone god dammit" stuff I was doing, because a teammate was going to impersonate me in a chatroom and it was going to be glorious. But then they died.
I say this because yeah I do sometimes pull shit when I'm bad, but as some kind of fakery my case on juliets would be the lamest idea I ever had.
Creature wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:52 pm
Wished I could just get out of this game.
@Creature, earlier in this game I saw you as town but as I stated in the thread at the time, there was more information that I didn't want to reveal. What I was talking about was your behavior as scum down the road in Arrowverse, specifically you started out fine with all those one line posts you do but then by Day 3 you had petered out and then ultimately got replaced. Your behavior in this game now reminds me of that one. You didn't post at all Day 3 that I saw and I didn't see any reason you weren't here. Now you are moaning that you don't want to be here. Why should I still believe you are town? Isn't your behavior here like it was in Arrowverse?
Can anyone corroborate this? Does creature tend to fizzle out as a baddie?
Creature wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:52 pm
Wished I could just get out of this game.
@Creature, earlier in this game I saw you as town but as I stated in the thread at the time, there was more information that I didn't want to reveal. What I was talking about was your behavior as scum down the road in Arrowverse, specifically you started out fine with all those one line posts you do but then by Day 3 you had petered out and then ultimately got replaced. Your behavior in this game now reminds me of that one. You didn't post at all Day 3 that I saw and I didn't see any reason you weren't here. Now you are moaning that you don't want to be here. Why should I still believe you are town? Isn't your behavior here like it was in Arrowverse?
Creature wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:52 pm
Wished I could just get out of this game.
Creature, earlier in this game I saw you as town but as I stated in the thread at the time, there was more information that I didn't want to reveal. What I was talking about was your behavior as scum down the road in Arrowverse, specifically you started out fine with all those one line posts you do but then by Day 3 you had petered out and then ultimately got replaced. Your behavior in this game now reminds me of that one. You didn't post at all Day 3 that I saw and I didn't see any reason you weren't here. Now you are moaning that you don't want to be here. Why should I still believe you are town? Isn't your behavior here like it was in Arrowverse?
[mention]Dragomir[/mention] I saw your response to Dyslexicon regarding there was nothing personal in your not answering his question, but I'm still not understanding why you didn't have more to say about Rej. As I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong) you and he have a strong mafia relationship in that you mentored him when he first started playing and know his game well. I would expect you to be very involved in discussion about his being scum or civ but all I saw in your ISO was your vote for him and the post Dizzy quoted. Why didn't you have more to say? Did you not recognize his civ meta? Or was he off? Anything you can tell me about this would be helpful.
It is time for me to go to bed but I'm going to vote for Creature before I go. Creature, you may have no interest in this game at all (and I'm sad if that is true) but I have to go by what I see and what I see looks like your scum meta. If you're not bad I hope you'll get with it and show us.
JaggedJimmyJay wrote: ↑Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:24 pmAlways good to remember that there is no such thing as a Mafia circumstance that is worth real human emotion. Sometimes it will naturally come out, but it can be contained if we just remember that this is a game on a message board forum that 99.99% of the population of the Earth has never heard of before. No matter how successful anyone is, it means just about nothing.
Creature wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:52 pm
Wished I could just get out of this game.
@Creature, earlier in this game I saw you as town but as I stated in the thread at the time, there was more information that I didn't want to reveal. What I was talking about was your behavior as scum down the road in Arrowverse, specifically you started out fine with all those one line posts you do but then by Day 3 you had petered out and then ultimately got replaced. Your behavior in this game now reminds me of that one. You didn't post at all Day 3 that I saw and I didn't see any reason you weren't here. Now you are moaning that you don't want to be here. Why should I still believe you are town? Isn't your behavior here like it was in Arrowverse?
Can anyone corroborate this? Does creature tend to fizzle out as a baddie?
juliets wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:15 pm
Ok, I don't see where Dom pushed for her after his ISO. I guess the thing I've got to wrestle with is whether this is just a style point, i.e., this is the way Dom does his ISO's. It will help me Tony when you give some meat to your feeling that he's "off".
linki, lol Epi now you know why I'm asking all these "but why" questions
Give me about an hour and I’ll come back to this. The short of it is that the sense I’ve gotten of Dom from what others have told me and from what I’ve read of games that he’s in and even in this game is that he’s an aggressive player in general. Given that, the expectation would be that he finishes his cases. Dom instead hasn’t finished any cases.
OK Tony that would be great. I have to go for a swim now anyway.
Hello I just read Dom games for almost an hour and I am not able enough to parse what is going on in most of them to make a compelling argument on that front. I am obliged by honor as well not to talk about another ongoing game, which is the only real opportunity I’ve had to get a feel outside of this game for how Dom plays. I am not spending more time on this I have things to get done tonight.
It is, however, scummy in general not to finish cases. Town has investment in cases, a town ISO suggests that an attempt was made to gain information and make some progress towards town victory. A town member who believes they have strong evidence also believes that this is the key to success and will always pursue that outside of specific examples otherwise. Because almost all mafia ISOs/reads are performative they do not in theory have investment in the cases they've made because they have not gained information. Mafia is free to make any statements but isn’t compelled to act on them because they don’t have new information to defend — they already know who is scum and who is not. This doesn’t mean that mafia members are more likely to change their mind or that town members are less likely to do so but it does mean that Mafia has no reason to be attached to reads.
Of note: this has been the cornerstone of at least two cases previously made in this game: mine against Epi 1.0 and Epi’s against Luna. Both were wrong(ish).
sig wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:07 pm
Also at least one afk person is mafia and probably have teammates trying to cover by directing lynches to other people so lets watch out for that.
Okay, this is probably dumb to be scum
Creature wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:32 pm
I need something more interesting.
juliets wrote: ↑Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:22 am
@Creature since you are bored could you do me a favor and tell me any games on this site where you have been town? I have one where you were bad.
juliets wrote: ↑Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:15 pm
Ok, I don't see where Dom pushed for her after his ISO. I guess the thing I've got to wrestle with is whether this is just a style point, i.e., this is the way Dom does his ISO's. It will help me Tony when you give some meat to your feeling that he's "off".
linki, lol Epi now you know why I'm asking all these "but why" questions
Give me about an hour and I’ll come back to this. The short of it is that the sense I’ve gotten of Dom from what others have told me and from what I’ve read of games that he’s in and even in this game is that he’s an aggressive player in general. Given that, the expectation would be that he finishes his cases. Dom instead hasn’t finished any cases.
OK Tony that would be great. I have to go for a swim now anyway.
Hello I just read Dom games for almost an hour and I am not able enough to parse what is going on in most of them to make a compelling argument on that front. I am obliged by honor as well not to talk about another ongoing game, which is the only real opportunity I’ve had to get a feel outside of this game for how Dom plays. I am not spending more time on this I have things to get done tonight.
It is, however, scummy in general not to finish cases. Town has investment in cases, a town ISO suggests that an attempt was made to gain information and make some progress towards town victory. A town member who believes they have strong evidence also believes that this is the key to success and will always pursue that outside of specific examples otherwise. Because almost all mafia ISOs/reads are performative they do not in theory have investment in the cases they've made because they have not gained information. Mafia is free to make any statements but isn’t compelled to act on them because they don’t have new information to defend — they already know who is scum and who is not. This doesn’t mean that mafia members are more likely to change their mind or that town members are less likely to do so but it does mean that Mafia has no reason to be attached to reads.
Of note: this has been the cornerstone of at least two cases previously made in this game: mine against Epi 1.0 and Epi’s against Luna. Both were wrong(ish).
This is a useless lecture. What does it have to do with Dom?
