Persona 5 Mafia [Game End]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]TonyStarkPrime[/mention], what do you feel is the best indicator so far that you're innocent?

[Epignosis]

People going Ndamukong Suh on Tony's ankles right out of the gate. Fun.

[Epignosis]

I'm giving myself maybe 20-30 minutes here before I go back to work (I edit fantasy sports content now and have since April, in case you didn't know) and I can hopefully get some decent sleep after that.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Looking at the player list, this thing feels cozy.

Creature feels reasonably authentic to me. I like the tone.
Dragomir screams civilian.
Epignosis will do something eventually either way.
Jack's hunt looks like the real thing.
Long Con is a person.
MacDougall is a butt and I have gripes, but I don't struggle to see a civilian either if I look through that lens.
nutella looks genuine to me. "You're terrified"
Rej has given a nice effort. I have a little extra doubt here that I need to explore.
sprityo is cranky but not much else.
Tony has done a lot and I appreciate that he's done a lot. I just haven't felt anything from it to this point, and that's a problem.

I feel decent for the moment about just dumping half the list here. We may only have three mislynches available depending upon the numbers, so such a reduction is very valuable. A core seems to be forming at least around Dragomir and nutella, with others like Jack and Creature perhaps in a similar space. I feel fine with all of them. If anyone feels strongly that such a notion is in error for any of those people (or anyone else getting credit), it's vital that you speak out and speak often.

[Epignosis]

Creature- No clear opinion.

Dragomir- I stand by my take. Came out throwing like Drew Brees.

Jack- I'm not rereading your 77 posts. Feeling is positive though.

JJJ- Unless he goofs, I don't lynch him Day 1. He hasn't goofed (been a donkey, maybe, but not goofed). I'd have to be convinced to vote there, and I don't see that happening.

Long Con- Got lost in concessions.

MacDougall- I look for a confident "Epi-JJJ-LC is scum got em" post early on. True to fashion, he made one. This time he included the fucking host. I noted it, but left it alone to see what other people would say about it. "Oh golly gee Mac is so town for that." Not in my stadium. Smells like a Minnesota Viking fan's fart. Would lynch.

nutella- I can't have a confident opinion of her or it's a red flag.

Rej- Will have to revisit.

sprityo- Will have to revisit.

TonyStarkPrime- Will have to revisit.

[Epignosis]

My vote for now is on MacDougall.

[Epignosis]

If I finish editing and still have gas in the tank, I will look over those last three. I hate incompletions.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Wish I knew how to read Sprityo or TSP.

Pretend you do.

Lol they’re wolves I’m sure of it.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Wish I knew how to read Sprityo or TSP.

Scum Jack doesn’t say this

[Jackofhearts2005]

[VOTE: TSP] aubergine

I want you to be mafia because I would be so damn impressed.

[Jackofhearts2005]

TonyStarkPrime, what do you feel is the best indicator so far that you're innocent?

Pointless. Anything that he can point out is a thing he could fake.

If Tony is town, he needs to open himself to the universe town and show that his soul is pure and stuff.

[Jackofhearts2005]

The neutral path is the actual moral and ethical path to choose btw. Or the true demon path.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

TonyStarkPrime, what do you feel is the best indicator so far that you're innocent?

Pointless. Anything that he can point out is a thing he could fake.

If Tony is town, he needs to open himself to the universe town and show that his soul is pure and stuff.

I don't agree with that. I routinely point to civilian indicators in my play that I'd struggle to fake. People rarely listen to me when I do that, but I don't care to make the same mistake.

[Epignosis]

Yeah, no gas. I'm falling asleep. Catch you jabronis tomorrow some time.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Taking a closer look at Rej

Spoiler: show

I wanna know why @MacDougall scumread the host.

me too, this was the most halfassed post I have seen for a while, it's maybe because it's D0 and he is comfortable and careless which tends for me to be town mentality

adding short P2 reads here:

nutella wants to start a wagon on JJJ and her post of linking me a JC to start a vote on JJJ made it look like she tried to get us to vote JJJ together
Dragomir flows alongside nutella, questioning people

so 2 options: both are town and rly see a threat in the JJJ tizzy or both are the mafia that wants to play as towncore
I exclude second for now because this would be way too agressive for mafia (especially D0) and mafia always wants to reach lylo/mylo without risks in this size of setup and I think Dragomir and nutella should be aware of this

more posts to come, but excuse my lazy ass

I'll focus on the highlighted portion here, which refers to nutella and Dragomir. When Rej was initially getting into the game and I stated an undefined concern, it was about this. First and most obviously, Rej discarded a third option -- one of them is a mafioso and the other one is not. I'm not sure why that shouldn't be a consideration. Second, the notion that nutella's and Dragomir's parallel suspicions of me would be "way too aggressive for mafia [teammates]" on Day 0 strikes me as a deep reach into WIFOM. As such, Rej is clearing both of them, and I find that dubious. There's a scent of TMI in it. The for now qualification also kind of dampens the meaning of the read.

Spoiler: show

scum would either give heat to JJJ/nutella tizzy
or scum would lay low during a tizzy
or scum would sidecomment the tizzy

IF the tizzy is a towntizzy, so if JJJ is town I understand his read here, which simply puts you into the corner of suspects

I don't entirely follow what you mean here Rej. I'll just state though that those three options you apply to the "tizzy" would seem applicable to any behavior at all. What else can a mafioso do in any scenario other than engage, lay low, or sideline?

Spoiler: show

I wanna know why @MacDougall scumread the host.

me too, this was the most halfassed post I have seen for a while, it's maybe because it's D0 and he is comfortable and careless which tends for me to be town mentality

adding short P2 reads here:

nutella wants to start a wagon on JJJ and her post of linking me a JC to start a vote on JJJ made it look like she tried to get us to vote JJJ together
Dragomir flows alongside nutella, questioning people

so 2 options: both are town and rly see a threat in the JJJ tizzy or both are the mafia that wants to play as towncore
I exclude second for now because this would be way too agressive for mafia (especially D0) and mafia always wants to reach lylo/mylo without risks in this size of setup and I think Dragomir and nutella should be aware of this

more posts to come, but excuse my lazy ass

Why are you discounting that just one could be scum here?

I had to google what discount means, dafug this wording man xD
I said I include a nutella + Dragomir combo as possible and with the setupsize I already speculated on there being more than one scum, clearly. A 1 v 10 sounds too imbalanced.

Tony asked the same question I asked. I don't understand the answer. What does the setup size have to do with the possible alignment arrangements between nutella and Dragomir? This could be misinterpretation given the confusion over the word "discount".

Spoiler: show

Feels like meta is going to be involved heavily this game.

Already giving me flashbacks of the scrimmage game.

exactly, that's why I don't like it if people just meta scumread someone, in a setup of this size more questioning should happen, rather than meta reading people and throwing shades, currently it is balanced tho, I have a hard time reading some people but other people give more space to read.
it is flipfloppy and reading back the pages always someone else is put under the gun, but mostly it's JJJ

so some people like Epi for example are avoiding the gun if you know what I mean

I think this general sentiment is wise. Meta reads have a place and a value, but when they're the exclusive basis for early-game reads they usually suck. Civilians can't get out of their own way with that crap; I see it constantly. I do have a question stemming from this, Rej: you noted that I was one being subjected to a lot of those meta-driven mafia reads, a methodology which you denigrate. I don't think we've played together anyway. You seem to have some suspicion of me regardless, clearly not on the basis of meta. Why?

Spoiler: show

Mac plays like a flexible towny, not avoiding the gun, I saw him play like this as town already twice, I can't go more into meta to dissect his D0 posts, but from a superficial view he acts towny, by following the main leads and adding contribution on his own pace

sprityo does not deliver enough space to be read, I rather tend to a null read and I don't want to make a fuss out of nullreads D0

Mac plays like a flexible towny,

Please show me the flexibility you have observed.

I will keep it short and simple based on the entrance and how he continued after the entrance.

Mac gave a short GTH after his entrance, followed by interacting with the other players, he doesn't have a clear stance, but provokes JJJ

The post afterwards no GTH reads, and he engaged with other people in no fast pace, but rather a pace I am familiar with Mac.

Without including deep meta knowledge, Mac screams town to me, or he is pretty pretty good in disguising as town.

That imho is flexible.

These I thought were decent from Rej. His civilian read on Mac is stronger than I would expect at this point, but his rationale for that read looks believable enough. Rej, which games did you play with Mac? If you could just name one at least that'd be swell.

Spoiler: show

Drago is behaving unlike he has in the two games I just played where he was town

How would you summarize the difference?

He’s not going after Rej and he’s not getting into silly fights that I don’t comprehend

@Dragomir
@Rej

Please tell me what you think of TSP's assertions.

I recently carried my first games as town actively destroying mafia, so I made big progress as a player, maybe a reason drago changed his general behaviour towards me. Else I have no clue, Drago prefers questioning me before deeper interaction with me, now he did not question me and instantly went the route of interacting together with me.
For sure suspicious, but could be a change in meta. Drago isn't one who would openly do sheeping moves.

Dragomir was green in your rainbow. You've called his treatment of you here "for sure suspicious" with some caveats. Does your read on Dragomir remain green?

~~~

My concerns here at times feel nitpicky, so it's not stuff that alarms me greatly. It should still be addressed though. I lean civilian on Rej albeit with less confidence than I'd like.

[Jackofhearts2005]

TonyStarkPrime, what do you feel is the best indicator so far that you're innocent?

Pointless. Anything that he can point out is a thing he could fake.

If Tony is town, he needs to open himself to the universe town and show that his soul is pure and stuff.

I don't agree with that. I routinely point to civilian indicators in my play that I'd struggle to fake. People rarely listen to me when I do that, but I don't care to make the same mistake.

You see the problem then.

Get on discord so we can discuss your song.

[MacDougall]

My vote for now is on MacDougall.

Whatever floats your boat champ

[sprityo]

> Baby's first rainbow: Mac is green skittle
> Mac expresses suspicion of baby for having falsely defined reads
> Every Mac post is suddenly bad
> What do YOU think of Mac?
> I WANT to town read you Sprityo but I can't (w/w)

Gg

sounds like someone needs a nappy poo

it's okay. you can't always force your opinion through sheer....what's the word? "rudeness" works but i want to use a smarter word.

[sprityo]

Another one of those games where people waste time arguing with me and ignore Epi’s existence.

I’m going to out this evening, so y’all ensure you remedy that while I’m quiet.

as far as im aware, epi DOESNT exist. which makes me all the more inquisitive one where he's at

[sprityo]

I am pretty comfortable with Rej, Drago and Jack. Very comfortable with Nutella now. Epi is fine for now. TSP and sprityo are not civ. Sprityo has been nothing but a lame troll. Jay seems bad but we are all prone to tunneling him I think so I'll try to be cautious.

Creature is a little bit null, which I don't particularly like.

the difference between me and you is you use more words to say the same thing

restating even, at least twice

[sprityo]

Wish I knew how to read Sprityo or TSP.

I think YOU'RE the blackened, Jack

[sprityo]

I'm pretty down for this apparent consensus. My only concern is that there is too much of a consensus... but then again, I think the going hypothesis is that he'd only have one teammate and it's likely to be sprityo who's been quiet anyway. So, [VOTE: tonystarkprime] aubergine

fuck the consensus, I do whaT I WAnt

[sprityo]

[VOTE: Mac] aubergine

I'll put Rej up at the top of my up and coming town list, now in Color!

[TonyStarkPrime]

I'm pretty down for this apparent consensus. My only concern is that there is too much of a consensus... but then again, I think the going hypothesis is that he'd only have one teammate and it's likely to be sprityo who's been quiet anyway. So, [VOTE: tonystarkprime] aubergine

Did you just steal random sprityo suspicion from Mac?

[TonyStarkPrime]

TonyStarkPrime, what do you feel is the best indicator so far that you're innocent?

I mean my day 0 scum and town tend to be similar, especially in more vanilla games. Why am I Town from that? Best I can say is that scum TSP probably wouldn’t be answering this question.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Spoiler: show

scum would either give heat to JJJ/nutella tizzy
or scum would lay low during a tizzy
or scum would sidecomment the tizzy

IF the tizzy is a towntizzy, so if JJJ is town I understand his read here, which simply puts you into the corner of suspects

I don't entirely follow what you mean here Rej. I'll just state though that those three options you apply to the "tizzy" would seem applicable to any behavior at all. What else can a mafioso do in any scenario other than engage, lay low, or sideline?

Be careful JJJ I pointed this out and Drago said that I was scum.
Actually worth noting: it appears here that Rej implicitly clears Nutella (unclear commas make this more difficult to understand)

[TonyStarkPrime]

Back to buckets:

One of Rej of Drago
One or two of everyone else

I’m not voting for Mac he’s town and he’s better than I am so the cost benefit analysis doesn’t work out for self pres

[TonyStarkPrime]

Looking at the player list, this thing feels cozy.

Creature feels reasonably authentic to me. I like the tone.
Dragomir screams civilian.
Epignosis will do something eventually either way.
Jack's hunt looks like the real thing.
Long Con is a person.
MacDougall is a butt and I have gripes, but I don't struggle to see a civilian either if I look through that lens.
nutella looks genuine to me. "You're terrified"
Rej has given a nice effort. I have a little extra doubt here that I need to explore.
sprityo is cranky but not much else.
Tony has done a lot and I appreciate that he's done a lot. I just haven't felt anything from it to this point, and that's a problem.

I feel decent for the moment about just dumping half the list here. We may only have three mislynches available depending upon the numbers, so such a reduction is very valuable. A core seems to be forming at least around Dragomir and nutella, with others like Jack and Creature perhaps in a similar space. I feel fine with all of them. If anyone feels strongly that such a notion is in error for any of those people (or anyone else getting credit), it's vital that you speak out and speak often.

Sigh Drago and Nutella are both scum I am speaking out
Creature Jack Mac are probably my “town core” so there’s some overlap on the lists at least

[TonyStarkPrime]

TonyStarkPrime, what do you feel is the best indicator so far that you're innocent?

Pointless. Anything that he can point out is a thing he could fake.

If Tony is town, he needs to open himself to the universe town and show that his soul is pure and stuff.

well that’s an ask

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Sigh Drago and Nutella are both scum I am speaking out
Creature Jack Mac are probably my “town core” so there’s some overlap on the lists at least

A mafioso nutella wouldn't shock me. I'd be pretty dang surprised by a mafioso Dragomir. I mean the beacon just shined right away. How do you feel about the ways he has handled your suspicion of him?

[TonyStarkPrime]

I'm pretty down for this apparent consensus. My only concern is that there is too much of a consensus... but then again, I think the going hypothesis is that he'd only have one teammate and it's likely to be sprityo who's been quiet anyway. So, [VOTE: tonystarkprime] aubergine

Nutella’s 20 some posts before this are all about Jay. Jay says they look authentic. Okay. Apparently in that time Nutella picked up Mac’s random scumreads from the beginning.

[MacDougall]

If anyone needs a reason to vote for sprityo just read his iso and ask yourself whether his reads are pro town.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Sigh Drago and Nutella are both scum I am speaking out
Creature Jack Mac are probably my “town core” so there’s some overlap on the lists at least

A mafioso nutella wouldn't shock me. I'd be pretty dang surprised by a mafioso Dragomir. I mean the beacon just shined right away. How do you feel about the ways he has handled your suspicion of him?

Honestly it’s the reason I haven’t voted for him but it’s so OMGUS that it’s kinda caught me off guard. In theory I’d say that’s NAI but I think scum Drago is strongly incentivized to keep it quiet and address as little as possible. In some senses he did? (Only addressed one of the three points) but he still talked about it on numerous occasions which is the wrong option if he were scum

[TonyStarkPrime]

-JaggedJimmyJay
-Dragomir
-nutella
-Rej
-Long Con

-MacDougall
-Epignosis
-Jackofhearts2005
-TonyStarkPrime
-Creature

I skimmed through the 8 pages, I split the player list in half since bigger numbers are easier to see, and i'll be working from the bottom pool until further notice as scum candidates and assuming the top half are town. Long Con Pending.

This is basically it on sprityo’s reads the rest of the time is spent taunting Jack and Mac as far as I can tell. It’s not a great list. It’s not a terrible list.

if sprityo is not the alignment that sprityo is is this different?
(Is this list the same for scum and town? What makes it one over the other)

[Creature]

Yawn this game makes me feel lazy

[Rej]

Taking a closer look at Rej

Spoiler: show

I wanna know why @MacDougall scumread the host.

me too, this was the most halfassed post I have seen for a while, it's maybe because it's D0 and he is comfortable and careless which tends for me to be town mentality

adding short P2 reads here:

nutella wants to start a wagon on JJJ and her post of linking me a JC to start a vote on JJJ made it look like she tried to get us to vote JJJ together
Dragomir flows alongside nutella, questioning people

so 2 options: both are town and rly see a threat in the JJJ tizzy or both are the mafia that wants to play as towncore
I exclude second for now because this would be way too agressive for mafia (especially D0) and mafia always wants to reach lylo/mylo without risks in this size of setup and I think Dragomir and nutella should be aware of this

more posts to come, but excuse my lazy ass

I'll focus on the highlighted portion here, which refers to nutella and Dragomir. When Rej was initially getting into the game and I stated an undefined concern, it was about this. First and most obviously, Rej discarded a third option -- one of them is a mafioso and the other one is not. I'm not sure why that shouldn't be a consideration. Second, the notion that nutella's and Dragomir's parallel suspicions of me would be "way too aggressive for mafia [teammates]" on Day 0 strikes me as a deep reach into WIFOM. As such, Rej is clearing both of them, and I find that dubious. There's a scent of TMI in it. The for now qualification also kind of dampens the meaning of the read.

Spoiler: show

scum would either give heat to JJJ/nutella tizzy
or scum would lay low during a tizzy
or scum would sidecomment the tizzy

IF the tizzy is a towntizzy, so if JJJ is town I understand his read here, which simply puts you into the corner of suspects

I don't entirely follow what you mean here Rej. I'll just state though that those three options you apply to the "tizzy" would seem applicable to any behavior at all. What else can a mafioso do in any scenario other than engage, lay low, or sideline?

Spoiler: show

I wanna know why @MacDougall scumread the host.

me too, this was the most halfassed post I have seen for a while, it's maybe because it's D0 and he is comfortable and careless which tends for me to be town mentality

adding short P2 reads here:

nutella wants to start a wagon on JJJ and her post of linking me a JC to start a vote on JJJ made it look like she tried to get us to vote JJJ together
Dragomir flows alongside nutella, questioning people

so 2 options: both are town and rly see a threat in the JJJ tizzy or both are the mafia that wants to play as towncore
I exclude second for now because this would be way too agressive for mafia (especially D0) and mafia always wants to reach lylo/mylo without risks in this size of setup and I think Dragomir and nutella should be aware of this

more posts to come, but excuse my lazy ass

Why are you discounting that just one could be scum here?

I had to google what discount means, dafug this wording man xD
I said I include a nutella + Dragomir combo as possible and with the setupsize I already speculated on there being more than one scum, clearly. A 1 v 10 sounds too imbalanced.

Tony asked the same question I asked. I don't understand the answer. What does the setup size have to do with the possible alignment arrangements between nutella and Dragomir? This could be misinterpretation given the confusion over the word "discount".

Spoiler: show

Feels like meta is going to be involved heavily this game.

Already giving me flashbacks of the scrimmage game.

exactly, that's why I don't like it if people just meta scumread someone, in a setup of this size more questioning should happen, rather than meta reading people and throwing shades, currently it is balanced tho, I have a hard time reading some people but other people give more space to read.
it is flipfloppy and reading back the pages always someone else is put under the gun, but mostly it's JJJ

so some people like Epi for example are avoiding the gun if you know what I mean

I think this general sentiment is wise. Meta reads have a place and a value, but when they're the exclusive basis for early-game reads they usually suck. Civilians can't get out of their own way with that crap; I see it constantly. I do have a question stemming from this, Rej: you noted that I was one being subjected to a lot of those meta-driven mafia reads, a methodology which you denigrate. I don't think we've played together anyway. You seem to have some suspicion of me regardless, clearly not on the basis of meta. Why?

Spoiler: show

Mac plays like a flexible towny, not avoiding the gun, I saw him play like this as town already twice, I can't go more into meta to dissect his D0 posts, but from a superficial view he acts towny, by following the main leads and adding contribution on his own pace

sprityo does not deliver enough space to be read, I rather tend to a null read and I don't want to make a fuss out of nullreads D0

Mac plays like a flexible towny,

Please show me the flexibility you have observed.

I will keep it short and simple based on the entrance and how he continued after the entrance.

Mac gave a short GTH after his entrance, followed by interacting with the other players, he doesn't have a clear stance, but provokes JJJ

The post afterwards no GTH reads, and he engaged with other people in no fast pace, but rather a pace I am familiar with Mac.

Without including deep meta knowledge, Mac screams town to me, or he is pretty pretty good in disguising as town.

That imho is flexible.

These I thought were decent from Rej. His civilian read on Mac is stronger than I would expect at this point, but his rationale for that read looks believable enough. Rej, which games did you play with Mac? If you could just name one at least that'd be swell.

Spoiler: show

Drago is behaving unlike he has in the two games I just played where he was town

How would you summarize the difference?

He’s not going after Rej and he’s not getting into silly fights that I don’t comprehend

@Dragomir
@Rej

Please tell me what you think of TSP's assertions.

I recently carried my first games as town actively destroying mafia, so I made big progress as a player, maybe a reason drago changed his general behaviour towards me. Else I have no clue, Drago prefers questioning me before deeper interaction with me, now he did not question me and instantly went the route of interacting together with me.
For sure suspicious, but could be a change in meta. Drago isn't one who would openly do sheeping moves.

Dragomir was green in your rainbow. You've called his treatment of you here "for sure suspicious" with some caveats. Does your read on Dragomir remain green?

~~~

My concerns here at times feel nitpicky, so it's not stuff that alarms me greatly. It should still be addressed though. I lean civilian on Rej albeit with less confidence than I'd like.

yareyare

about clearing up nutella and dragomir, it is somewhat connected to GTH reads, I liked nutellas approach on you, it was what a civillian would do, as I have rarely seen scum doing it successful. Also inbetween nutella became quite emotional and she was literally screaming at you, which was quite authentic. I included it in my GTH about nutella, my bad I did not clearly write it down as GTH but rather included it in that read with Dragomir.

nutellas overemotionality D0 could also be act, I don't exclude it, I just don't know her playstyle

@ the Mac question:
I just played 2 full games with him I think, I don't even remember the first game...or welll...no I don't remember it right now, but the second one was the sockville one, and in both games he was town.
Also my reads are always shitty imho, but thanks for the compliments on Macs reads lol.


@ the Dragomir question:
Dragomir is still green, but I will keep my eyes on him and explore his playstyle more. His playstyle reminds me a bit of his and novas buddy - buddy town playstyle they pulled out in the sockville game I think. I call it "townforming", it is something we also practice in our home mafiaforum.

[Rej]

I find the votes at Mac interesting, after he received some good townreads. After looking at sprityo's Iso:
From the first first posts on they tunneled Mac and threatened him with a kill. Sounds like a challenge/bait. Feels like some personal stuff. I don't know how anyone of them profits from this if they would be scum. Still I can't get a civillian sprityo in my head right now.

[Rej]

Epignosis also did not receive any civillian reads from my side, so the wagon on Mac is the most suspicious thing I have seen yet in this game lol.

[Dragomir]

Taking a closer look at Rej

Spoiler: show

I wanna know why @MacDougall scumread the host.

me too, this was the most halfassed post I have seen for a while, it's maybe because it's D0 and he is comfortable and careless which tends for me to be town mentality

adding short P2 reads here:

nutella wants to start a wagon on JJJ and her post of linking me a JC to start a vote on JJJ made it look like she tried to get us to vote JJJ together
Dragomir flows alongside nutella, questioning people

so 2 options: both are town and rly see a threat in the JJJ tizzy or both are the mafia that wants to play as towncore
I exclude second for now because this would be way too agressive for mafia (especially D0) and mafia always wants to reach lylo/mylo without risks in this size of setup and I think Dragomir and nutella should be aware of this

more posts to come, but excuse my lazy ass

I'll focus on the highlighted portion here, which refers to nutella and Dragomir. When Rej was initially getting into the game and I stated an undefined concern, it was about this. First and most obviously, Rej discarded a third option -- one of them is a mafioso and the other one is not. I'm not sure why that shouldn't be a consideration. Second, the notion that nutella's and Dragomir's parallel suspicions of me would be "way too aggressive for mafia [teammates]" on Day 0 strikes me as a deep reach into WIFOM. As such, Rej is clearing both of them, and I find that dubious. There's a scent of TMI in it. The for now qualification also kind of dampens the meaning of the read.

Spoiler: show

scum would either give heat to JJJ/nutella tizzy
or scum would lay low during a tizzy
or scum would sidecomment the tizzy

IF the tizzy is a towntizzy, so if JJJ is town I understand his read here, which simply puts you into the corner of suspects

I don't entirely follow what you mean here Rej. I'll just state though that those three options you apply to the "tizzy" would seem applicable to any behavior at all. What else can a mafioso do in any scenario other than engage, lay low, or sideline?

Spoiler: show

I wanna know why @MacDougall scumread the host.

me too, this was the most halfassed post I have seen for a while, it's maybe because it's D0 and he is comfortable and careless which tends for me to be town mentality

adding short P2 reads here:

nutella wants to start a wagon on JJJ and her post of linking me a JC to start a vote on JJJ made it look like she tried to get us to vote JJJ together
Dragomir flows alongside nutella, questioning people

so 2 options: both are town and rly see a threat in the JJJ tizzy or both are the mafia that wants to play as towncore
I exclude second for now because this would be way too agressive for mafia (especially D0) and mafia always wants to reach lylo/mylo without risks in this size of setup and I think Dragomir and nutella should be aware of this

more posts to come, but excuse my lazy ass

Why are you discounting that just one could be scum here?

I had to google what discount means, dafug this wording man xD
I said I include a nutella + Dragomir combo as possible and with the setupsize I already speculated on there being more than one scum, clearly. A 1 v 10 sounds too imbalanced.

Tony asked the same question I asked. I don't understand the answer. What does the setup size have to do with the possible alignment arrangements between nutella and Dragomir? This could be misinterpretation given the confusion over the word "discount".

Spoiler: show

Feels like meta is going to be involved heavily this game.

Already giving me flashbacks of the scrimmage game.

exactly, that's why I don't like it if people just meta scumread someone, in a setup of this size more questioning should happen, rather than meta reading people and throwing shades, currently it is balanced tho, I have a hard time reading some people but other people give more space to read.
it is flipfloppy and reading back the pages always someone else is put under the gun, but mostly it's JJJ

so some people like Epi for example are avoiding the gun if you know what I mean

I think this general sentiment is wise. Meta reads have a place and a value, but when they're the exclusive basis for early-game reads they usually suck. Civilians can't get out of their own way with that crap; I see it constantly. I do have a question stemming from this, Rej: you noted that I was one being subjected to a lot of those meta-driven mafia reads, a methodology which you denigrate. I don't think we've played together anyway. You seem to have some suspicion of me regardless, clearly not on the basis of meta. Why?

Spoiler: show

Mac plays like a flexible towny, not avoiding the gun, I saw him play like this as town already twice, I can't go more into meta to dissect his D0 posts, but from a superficial view he acts towny, by following the main leads and adding contribution on his own pace

sprityo does not deliver enough space to be read, I rather tend to a null read and I don't want to make a fuss out of nullreads D0

Mac plays like a flexible towny,

Please show me the flexibility you have observed.

I will keep it short and simple based on the entrance and how he continued after the entrance.

Mac gave a short GTH after his entrance, followed by interacting with the other players, he doesn't have a clear stance, but provokes JJJ

The post afterwards no GTH reads, and he engaged with other people in no fast pace, but rather a pace I am familiar with Mac.

Without including deep meta knowledge, Mac screams town to me, or he is pretty pretty good in disguising as town.

That imho is flexible.

These I thought were decent from Rej. His civilian read on Mac is stronger than I would expect at this point, but his rationale for that read looks believable enough. Rej, which games did you play with Mac? If you could just name one at least that'd be swell.

Spoiler: show

Drago is behaving unlike he has in the two games I just played where he was town

How would you summarize the difference?

He’s not going after Rej and he’s not getting into silly fights that I don’t comprehend

@Dragomir
@Rej

Please tell me what you think of TSP's assertions.

I recently carried my first games as town actively destroying mafia, so I made big progress as a player, maybe a reason drago changed his general behaviour towards me. Else I have no clue, Drago prefers questioning me before deeper interaction with me, now he did not question me and instantly went the route of interacting together with me.
For sure suspicious, but could be a change in meta. Drago isn't one who would openly do sheeping moves.

Dragomir was green in your rainbow. You've called his treatment of you here "for sure suspicious" with some caveats. Does your read on Dragomir remain green?

~~~

My concerns here at times feel nitpicky, so it's not stuff that alarms me greatly. It should still be addressed though. I lean civilian on Rej albeit with less confidence than I'd like.

This is good. Much better than the iso on Mac.

[Dragomir]

Sigh Drago and Nutella are both scum I am speaking out
Creature Jack Mac are probably my “town core” so there’s some overlap on the lists at least

A mafioso nutella wouldn't shock me. I'd be pretty dang surprised by a mafioso Dragomir. I mean the beacon just shined right away. How do you feel about the ways he has handled your suspicion of him?

Honestly it’s the reason I haven’t voted for him but it’s so OMGUS that it’s kinda caught me off guard. In theory I’d say that’s NAI but I think scum Drago is strongly incentivized to keep it quiet and address as little as possible. In some senses he did? (Only addressed one of the three points) but he still talked about it on numerous occasions which is the wrong option if he were scum

Your logic here is simply reduced to WIFOM. I don't like it. There's no clear logic in it to add up with the read(sounds like you find this aspect town in me) of my reaction being town. The logic that us in it is just something that makes us go in circles in turn leading nowhere. This feels super fake.

[Dragomir]

I need to take a look at Sprityo. Let's see if he can replace my jack scum read.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Sigh Drago and Nutella are both scum I am speaking out
Creature Jack Mac are probably my “town core” so there’s some overlap on the lists at least

A mafioso nutella wouldn't shock me. I'd be pretty dang surprised by a mafioso Dragomir. I mean the beacon just shined right away. How do you feel about the ways he has handled your suspicion of him?

Honestly it’s the reason I haven’t voted for him but it’s so OMGUS that it’s kinda caught me off guard. In theory I’d say that’s NAI but I think scum Drago is strongly incentivized to keep it quiet and address as little as possible. In some senses he did? (Only addressed one of the three points) but he still talked about it on numerous occasions which is the wrong option if he were scum

Your logic here is simply reduced to WIFOM. I don't like it. There's no clear logic in it to add up with the read(sounds like you find this aspect town in me) of my reaction being town. The logic that us in it is just something that makes us go in circles in turn leading nowhere. This feels super fake.

Yes it’s wifom but is it wrong

Drago is scum -> he should ignore TSP
Drago did not ignore TSP -> he made an unexpected choice OR he is not scum

Do you disagree with the logic
Does anyone disagree with the logic

[Dragomir]

Sigh Drago and Nutella are both scum I am speaking out
Creature Jack Mac are probably my “town core” so there’s some overlap on the lists at least

A mafioso nutella wouldn't shock me. I'd be pretty dang surprised by a mafioso Dragomir. I mean the beacon just shined right away. How do you feel about the ways he has handled your suspicion of him?

Honestly it’s the reason I haven’t voted for him but it’s so OMGUS that it’s kinda caught me off guard. In theory I’d say that’s NAI but I think scum Drago is strongly incentivized to keep it quiet and address as little as possible. In some senses he did? (Only addressed one of the three points) but he still talked about it on numerous occasions which is the wrong option if he were scum

Your logic here is simply reduced to WIFOM. I don't like it. There's no clear logic in it to add up with the read(sounds like you find this aspect town in me) of my reaction being town. The logic that us in it is just something that makes us go in circles in turn leading nowhere. This feels super fake.

Yes it’s wifom but is it wrong

Drago is scum -> he should ignore TSP
Drago did not ignore TSP -> he made an unexpected choice OR he is not scum

Do you disagree with the logic
Does anyone disagree with the logic

I do disagree with it. How does me not ignoring it point me to being town? I choose what to ignore and what to address. I've done unexpected moves as scum before. Just ask Rej.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Wish I knew how to read Sprityo or TSP.

I think YOU'RE the blackened, Jack

[Jackofhearts2005]

Back to buckets:

One of Rej of Drago
One or two of everyone else

I’m not voting for Mac he’s town and he’s better than I am so the cost benefit analysis doesn’t work out for self pres

Why are Rej and Drago antialigned?

[Jackofhearts2005]

If anyone needs a reason to vote for sprityo just read his iso and ask yourself whether his reads are pro town.

And then remember Sprityo hasn’t posted actual reads like 4 games running and didn’t really give a shit even when he randed SK.

If town Sprityo tries I can find him but phoned in Sprityo’s alignment is a mystery.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Back to buckets:

One of Rej of Drago
One or two of everyone else

I’m not voting for Mac he’s town and he’s better than I am so the cost benefit analysis doesn’t work out for self pres

Why are Rej and Drago antialigned?

Drago latches onto Rej early and frequently, if they’re both scum that wouldn’t have happened especially since the two are associated already in some ways. But both occupy lowish spaces on my tier list so it’s very likely that one is scum. I could see it go either way but my guess is Drago scum.

[TonyStarkPrime]

Sigh Drago and Nutella are both scum I am speaking out
Creature Jack Mac are probably my “town core” so there’s some overlap on the lists at least

A mafioso nutella wouldn't shock me. I'd be pretty dang surprised by a mafioso Dragomir. I mean the beacon just shined right away. How do you feel about the ways he has handled your suspicion of him?

Honestly it’s the reason I haven’t voted for him but it’s so OMGUS that it’s kinda caught me off guard. In theory I’d say that’s NAI but I think scum Drago is strongly incentivized to keep it quiet and address as little as possible. In some senses he did? (Only addressed one of the three points) but he still talked about it on numerous occasions which is the wrong option if he were scum

Your logic here is simply reduced to WIFOM. I don't like it. There's no clear logic in it to add up with the read(sounds like you find this aspect town in me) of my reaction being town. The logic that us in it is just something that makes us go in circles in turn leading nowhere. This feels super fake.

Yes it’s wifom but is it wrong

Drago is scum -> he should ignore TSP
Drago did not ignore TSP -> he made an unexpected choice OR he is not scum

Do you disagree with the logic
Does anyone disagree with the logic

I do disagree with it. How does me not ignoring it point me to being town? I choose what to ignore and what to address. I've done unexpected moves as scum before. Just ask Rej.

Yes I am taking into capacity your ability to make unexpected moves that’s one of the things in the disjunction

[TonyStarkPrime]

If anyone needs a reason to vote for sprityo just read his iso and ask yourself whether his reads are pro town.

And then remember Sprityo hasn’t posted actual reads like 4 games running and didn’t really give a shit even when he randed SK.

If town Sprityo tries I can find him but phoned in Sprityo’s alignment is a mystery.

Replaced in as SK I think?

[Dragomir]

There's only one positive thing about TSP. He's going against the grain with the scum read on me. Though, I'm not sure what to make of it.