Persona 5 Mafia [Game End]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm going to take a break from the game for a bit today. I'd like to see how things develop without my loud ass butting in on every conversation.

[MacDougall]

We just got our balls together.

Yes daddy

[MacDougall]

Sprityoooo

[Epignosis]

Damn. Long Con died. I had him 100% pegged as a civilian, and look at how right I was.

[nutella]

Damn. Long Con died. I had him 100% pegged as a civilian, and look at how right I was.

"What's this? Your cryin' face is not cute."

[Epignosis]

Damn. Long Con died. I had him 100% pegged as a civilian, and look at how right I was.

"What's this? Your cryin' face is not cute."

My regular face isn't either.

[nutella]

"Well, everybody wears a mask deep within their heart."

[Epignosis]

That explains the chronic chest pains.

[Rej]

Lmao

Guys the big question is: Why isn't someone from towncore killed by scum?
The answer is simple: The scum is inside towncore and feels like they can manipulate towncore.


[VOTE: Dragomir] aubergine

[mention]Dragomir[/mention] come at me! You a PR that bussed his goon!

[Epignosis]

I've witnessed mafia do stupid shit so many times that it fails to surprise me anymore.

[Dragomir]

Lmao

Guys the big question is: Why isn't someone from towncore killed by scum?
The answer is simple: The scum is inside towncore and feels like they can manipulate towncore.


[VOTE: Dragomir] aubergine

@Dragomir come at me! You a PR that bussed his goon!

[Dragomir]

I've witnessed mafia do stupid shit so many times that it fails to surprise me anymore.

Like what Rej is trying to pull off against me?

[Rej]

is bussing popular on this forum? I see people talk about bussing in every game

[Epignosis]

is bussing popular on this forum? I see people talk about bussing in every game

I hate doing it. I've done it maybe three times. Once on purpose and twice because I felt I didn't have a choice.

[MacDougall]

I honestly think bussing is rare. Distancing that turns into leaving your vote on your partner, sure. Not really the same thing because the intent is not to bus. Jumping on your partner's wagon because they're doomed... hmmm I usually prefer the wifom of being off wagon as opposed to attracting the attention of diving on late personally, but I haven't really any judgement on whether others do similar.

[MacDougall]

Outright, I am going to try to get you lynched okay? I really can't say that it ever happens.

[MacDougall]

I've witnessed mafia do stupid shit so many times that it fails to surprise me anymore.

Like what Rej is trying to pull off against me?

I think his line of thinking is reasonable. I'm gonna need you to take it seriously please.

[Epignosis]

Outright, I am going to try to get you lynched okay? I really can't say that it ever happens.

Who, me?

Live your best life boo.

[Dragomir]

I've witnessed mafia do stupid shit so many times that it fails to surprise me anymore.

Like what Rej is trying to pull off against me?

I think his line of thinking is reasonable. I'm gonna need you to take it seriously please.

Who's Rej?

[MacDougall]

Outright, I am going to try to get you lynched okay? I really can't say that it ever happens.

Who, me?

Live your best life boo.

No I was saying that I don't think that conversation happens in BTSC. It makes sense if you read the preceding post.

[MacDougall]

I've witnessed mafia do stupid shit so many times that it fails to surprise me anymore.

Like what Rej is trying to pull off against me?

I think his line of thinking is reasonable. I'm gonna need you to take it seriously please.

Who's Rej?

[VOTE: Dragomir] aubergine

[Rej]

wtf Drago

[Rej]

I've witnessed mafia do stupid shit so many times that it fails to surprise me anymore.

Like what Rej is trying to pull off against me?

I think his line of thinking is reasonable. I'm gonna need you to take it seriously please.

Who's Rej?

[VOTE: Dragomir] aubergine

you still have your vote on sprityo lol

[MacDougall]

I've witnessed mafia do stupid shit so many times that it fails to surprise me anymore.

Like what Rej is trying to pull off against me?

I think his line of thinking is reasonable. I'm gonna need you to take it seriously please.

Who's Rej?

[VOTE: Dragomir] aubergine

you still have your vote on sprityo lol

Shhh don't tell him.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I've witnessed mafia do stupid shit so many times that it fails to surprise me anymore.

I don’t even bother with @maybe they were misdirected.” They never are.

[Dragomir]

Rej knows damn well that I am town. Scum reading me this game does not add up with a town Rej.

[Epignosis]

Let it be know I've done nothing to help the civilian cause today. Expect more of the same tomorrow.

[MacDougall]

Let it be know I've done nothing to help the civilian cause today. Expect more of the same tomorrow.

We might as well just lynch you then as it will be no loss whatsoever.

[Rej]

Rej knows damn well that I am town. Scum reading me this game does not add up with a town Rej.

No I don't know when I feel you go into a different or miscalculated direction.
Then yeah how about the idea of the wolf being in towncore? And you are part of the towncore.
So who could be the wolf? Between JJJ, Tony, Nutella, Mac for example.

Or who is supposed to be "towncore". I feel my and Creature activity is not enough to be considered towncore. Epignosis is to shady and way on his own to be counted as towncore.

I feel Creature is not rly profitting from the Long Con kill because of several reasons. It is way easier to kill towncore from his position and then throw shades at other towncore to generate a mislynch. Atleast it is what I would do if I were a wolf.

Outside of the towncore/wolf idea I feel that Epignosis is also not clear. So I get back to the standpoint I had earlier, of me trusting literally noone right now. And Creature can prove himself with no conditions if he is town.

[Rej]

Afk, watching Jojos

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Lmao

Guys the big question is: Why isn't someone from towncore killed by scum?
The answer is simple: The scum is inside towncore and feels like they can manipulate towncore.

Why is this even necessary for someone in the "towncore"? If we're concerned with what's "optimal", then it's never "shoot Long Con" for anyone in this game. But they shot him anyway.

So why did you shoot him?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Rej knows damn well that I am town. Scum reading me this game does not add up with a town Rej.

No I don't know when I feel you go into a different or miscalculated direction.
Then yeah how about the idea of the wolf being in towncore? And you are part of the towncore.
So who could be the wolf? Between JJJ, Tony, Nutella, Mac for example.

Or who is supposed to be "towncore". I feel my and Creature activity is not enough to be considered towncore. Epignosis is to shady and way on his own to be counted as towncore.

I feel Creature is not rly profitting from the Long Con kill because of several reasons. It is way easier to kill towncore from his position and then throw shades at other towncore to generate a mislynch. Atleast it is what I would do if I were a wolf.

Outside of the towncore/wolf idea I feel that Epignosis is also not clear. So I get back to the standpoint I had earlier, of me trusting literally noone right now. And Creature can prove himself with no conditions if he is town.

It's Day 2, we have a dead mafioso, and you're building your entire theory of the game on WIFOM.

Yuck.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I've witnessed mafia do stupid shit so many times that it fails to surprise me anymore.

Like what Rej is trying to pull off against me?

I think his line of thinking is reasonable. I'm gonna need you to take it seriously please.

Who's Rej?

This is irking me, because I think a single article of punctuation has changed the entire image of your post.

Did you mean this:

Who's, Rej?

(As in: "Who's line of thinking is reasonable? Rej's?")

or

Who's Rej?

(As in: "Who is Rej?)

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If Epignosis is a civilian, he will do something to at least attempt to make that evident. Until I see it: dog house.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

a single article of punctuation

(As in: "Who's line of thinking is reasonable? Rej's?")

[Rej]

Lmao

Guys the big question is: Why isn't someone from towncore killed by scum?
The answer is simple: The scum is inside towncore and feels like they can manipulate towncore.

Why is this even necessary for someone in the "towncore"? If we're concerned with what's "optimal", then it's never "shoot Long Con" for anyone in this game. But they shot him anyway.

So why did you shoot him?

I would have been clever and went against some more central person to weaken town.
The only reason why I should kill Long Con would be, if I had a plan to carry wolves with that kill. And tbh I don't have a plan.

If you consider this an excuse from my side, then the only way of me being the shooter would be one of the other 2 PRs possessing motion control/manipulative abilities (bus driver, redirector). I feel kinda nah about it.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If you consider this an excuse from my side, then the only way of me being the shooter would be one of the other 2 PRs possessing motion control/manipulative abilities (bus driver, redirector). I feel kinda nah about it.

Someone would have had to redirect your shot to Long Con, you mean?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Trustfall:

Creature: At isolated points his posts have sounded authentic, particularly the sarcastic/frank sorts of "spoiler alert, it's a busser" stuff.

Dragomir: Nearly every post he makes screams civilian to an extent that often does not exist in Mafia games -- the appearance was immediate, powerful, and it has not gone away. At face value, a mafia Dragomir has me fooled in every capacity. When he attracted early credit, Tony opted to make him a contrarian mafia read -- I suspect most teammates would just further promote the credit here and pick a civilian to be contrarian with. Dragomir placed one vote on Day 1, immediately when the day started, and it was for Tony. It did not budge.

Epignosis: A few of his posts have seemed okay in terms of tone. Attributing a mafia alignment to him implies some uncharacteristic blunders (forgetting his own read on Tony, [maybe] shooting Long Con).

Jack: If I am right about Jack in this game, I think I've had a bit of a breakthrough with regard to understanding his civilian play. That's not a "trustfall" thing, but it does reflect that I find him authentic. He'd be my top civilian reads with this post history in most games, perhaps, where a Dragomir does not exist. I think Tony's posts about Jack are decent for him too.

MacDougall: He has for the most part seemed sincere in his hunt. His handling of Tony more closely mirrored my own than the rest of the roster, in that he held suspicions all day but did not treat it as a foregone conclusion -- he explored both sides of the read.

nutella: Tony's posts make her look better than they make anyone else look in my opinion. I think some of her more emotionally-charged content in this game would be atypical of her mafia-aligned play. Her hunt has generally seemed authentic.

Rej: Tony seemed at least mildly interested in promoting the Rej counterwagon. If Rej is a teammate of vanilla Tony, that increases the likelihood that Rej is a power role mafioso. The mafia would presumably prefer to lose their highly-suspected vanilla than a less-suspected power role.

sprityo: He doesn't strike me as someone who is concerned with anything at all in this game, whether it be how he looks or the general consequences of his posts/votes/reads.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Creature - weak reason
Dragomir - strong reason
Epignosis - somewhat weak reason
Jack - decent reason
Mac - decent reason
nutella - good reason
Rej - weak reason
sprityo - weak reason

[Rej]

If you consider this an excuse from my side, then the only way of me being the shooter would be one of the other 2 PRs possessing motion control/manipulative abilities (bus driver, redirector). I feel kinda nah about it.

Someone would have had to redirect your shot to Long Con, you mean?

As said it is just clever to shoot towncore if you ain't part of it. I don't consider myself as towncore, and Long Con ain't too.
So yes I would have shot someone else and someone would have redirected my shot. Or my original target was transported/busdriven.
So no, that is not how killer Rej works. Killer Rej takes out and confronts the danger, no matter who's behind the danger.

This is the absurdest shit I have ever heard, me shooting a sideliner as wolf.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

If you consider this an excuse from my side, then the only way of me being the shooter would be one of the other 2 PRs possessing motion control/manipulative abilities (bus driver, redirector). I feel kinda nah about it.

Someone would have had to redirect your shot to Long Con, you mean?

As said it is just clever to shoot towncore if you ain't part of it. I don't consider myself as towncore, and Long Con ain't too.
So yes I would have shot someone else and someone would have redirected my shot. Or my original target was transported/busdriven.
So no, that is not how killer Rej works. Killer Rej takes out and confronts the danger, no matter who's behind the danger.

This is the absurdest shit I have ever heard, me shooting a sideliner as wolf.

So you did shoot someone, then?

[Rej]

Now wait.
This scenario is possible:
Town's PR is a protective/manipulative role.
He protected a towncore by switching them with a sideliner.
Wolf shooter shot the protected towncore and the sideliner died.
This scenario justifies the shooter not to be towncore.

I see in both scenarios the wolf CAN create a confusion within towncore.

[Rej]

If you consider this an excuse from my side, then the only way of me being the shooter would be one of the other 2 PRs possessing motion control/manipulative abilities (bus driver, redirector). I feel kinda nah about it.

Someone would have had to redirect your shot to Long Con, you mean?

As said it is just clever to shoot towncore if you ain't part of it. I don't consider myself as towncore, and Long Con ain't too.
So yes I would have shot someone else and someone would have redirected my shot. Or my original target was transported/busdriven.
So no, that is not how killer Rej works. Killer Rej takes out and confronts the danger, no matter who's behind the danger.

This is the absurdest shit I have ever heard, me shooting a sideliner as wolf.

So you did shoot someone, then?

No I am not scum bro

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I think there was some linguistic confusion there.

Anyway, I am not inclined to do much of anything with the Long Con kill. As a deliberate kill its entire purpose is likely to sow discord/create doubts/generate confusion/etc.

No thanks.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Also possible they just thought LC was a power role.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]Rej[/mention], what makes Dragomir your choice vote among all of the "towncore" players who could be associated with the LC kill given your theory?

[Rej]

Rej, makes Dragomir your choice vote among all of the "towncore" players who could be associated with the LC kill given your theory?

I don't wanna vote Dragomir anymore, I have a ballsy idea, but I don't want to give mafia the basis to find out town's PR.
Anyway I have got another thing for you guys:
[mention]nutella[/mention] was possibly hit by a post restrict. So if a kill happened at night then we can start to question the origin of this possible vote restriction. Which could mean we are in 3v8 or 1v2v8 (now 2v7 or 1v1v7). 3 given PRs could be the strongest hint to this being a three sided game. I exclude the possibility of 2 town PRs fighting 1 mafia PR or vice versa. Someone can correct me if this would be fair.

So this said, the kill can be done by the mafia PR. And the post restrict might come from a third party or even a second mafia in the worst case scenario. Nothing is hinting towards a second mafia tho.

if nutella was striked by a third party attack, then she can still be town/mafia, considering she is towncore for solidifying the lynch on TSP.

Also I expanded the theory, depending on towns PR, the Long Con shooter can be a sideliner.
Also in a multiball, noone would have a reason to shoot Long Con because for balancement reasons a faction should not be additional informed about the setup structure.

[Rej]

and yes a 2v2v7 has the least possibility, but it still is out there

also at this point we have 4 agendas within the DP:

the agenda of towns PR
the agenda of mafia PR
the agenda of the third party PR
the agenda of vanilla town

I will sadly go sleep now, but we gotta defiddle this chaos. And it's not that hard.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

So this said, the kill can be done by the mafia PR. And the post restrict might come from a third party or even a second mafia in the worst case scenario. Nothing is hinting towards a second mafia tho.

It is typical here for mafia members with abilities to be able to kill and use abilities. If there's a mafia curser, they can still be the only one alive.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Well that’s a curated list feels like
Creature town, Rej slight town, Drago more scum than Jack or Epi, Nutella scummish Mac probably town no reads on anybody else

I keep returning to this pseudo-salad thing. Tony seemed to include four mafia reads in this list: Drago, Jack, Epignosis, and nutella. That's ambiguous though, because Tony worded the highlighted portion as a comparison.

Drago more scum than Jack or Epi --> Jack and Epi less scum than Drago.

One is forced to deduce that, and then infer that Jack and Epi are suspects to some vague extent. It's not actually stated. One could also deduce from this "Jack and Epi are town reads" and technically it's not incorrect.

Now, consider Tony's early-game connection between Dragomir and Jack:

What differentiates Jack and Drago for you?

Both of them had similar entrances with the same set of views (steaming a scum read of you mostly). I would probably have tiered them about the same

Both of them had similar entrances with the same set of views (steaming a scum read of you mostly). I would probably have tiered them about the same

Where does that tier reside on the civilian-mafia spectrum?

Slight orange- moderate lean scum.

So with this in mind, it makes some sense that Tony would provide this read: "Dragomir more scum than Jack" --> He's taking a stance on his own random dichotomy.

So what is Epignosis doing in that nugget?