Dogs vs. Cats [END]

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Something to note is that neither present wagonee is inclined to vote on their counterwagon. I'm not sure that's what I expect from any of these arrangements: c/m, m/c, or m/m. As such it's in their favor.

[novaselinenever]

Drago's suspicion of LC is nice. I like the way he stumbles through it, and it feels like a genuine paranoid no u

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Yeah, you are already taking the spotlight, so go make something out of it.

Nobody has done more in this thread than I have. I don't know where you get this stuff.

This is very offending (the statement in red). Like a wolf who tries too much to get attention from town, powerwolfing and almost angle-shooting here.

That red thing was a facetious reference to the grade school classroom. Maybe that's a cultural split if you don't recognize it; no clue how it could be "angle-shooting".

So JJJ just said he can't play like in the Persona game because of a reason that is not true. JJJ analysed minposter in the Persona game and now he can't do the same here?

I have made reads on minimal posters. I haven't "analyzed" them, and I never have. There's nothing to analyze. What exactly do you mean when you refer to analysis? I am thinking of wall posts and thorough cross-sections of ISOs, etc. Is that what you're talking about?

[novaselinenever]

They've barely interacted

[novaselinenever]

[VOTE: Rej] aubergine

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I like this. People scum reading me. More of what I'm used to.

...??????

What's so confusing?

Only game I've seen you in you were a ubiquitous townread. Do you usually get scumread? Where? (perdon if this was already asked)

Dragomir was widely read as mafia in our scrimmage (wrongly). I'm going to take a quick look to draw comparisons.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]Rej[/mention], why is Dragomir a civilian?

[mention]Dragomir[/mention], why is Rej a civilian?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[mention]speedchuck[/mention], why Rej?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The following tidbits come from Day 4 of the Scrimmage game, and not from this game. I wish only to draw a comparison:

Spoiler: show

You stand charged with copious TMI, a huge cobb salad, and a general unwillingness to adapt your reads to the developments of the game day to day.

TMI my ass. I had pinged 2 players as hard towns on perfectly logical reasons. You guys might do some bad things but one must have to ignore a great deal of things that proves you being town to say that you're scum and I find that asinine.

The salad means nothing. That shit is only bad if the player just suggest a bunch of ppl but then does nothing to push on them later on or has done nothing to push on them in past. The player is being passive and sheepish. That makes a salad really bad imo. If a player has been pushing for their salad players all game or at least tried to make cases on them, a salad is not scummy.

Why is this a bad thing and why should my reads have changed? Literally all the players in my scum reads have done absolutely nothing to convince to me that they're town. Not a single post of theirs is even town to me so why in bloody name's should my read change? The only that made me change my read on DDL was a cop invest. Like hell, how they interacted with Ultra hardly helps their(my scum reads) case if it does at all. I even ended up with a stronger scum read on Owner and DDL based off how Ultra's flip.

These reasonings against me are ludicrous.

Dragomir has been the most suspicious person since then and has somehow avoided lynching and the tide keeps turning away from him. I wonder why. Can we lynch him now please.

Because I'm not as suspicious as you guys actually believe.

I disagree

I disagree harder.

Don't think I'll ever say my town reads again. I just got pocketed by the entire mafia squad.

I acknowledge the contextual difference: different game, different time in the game. Whatever. I don't think those are super meaningful differences and so I proceed.

Dragomir took flak throughout this game, but he survived all of it. The criticism continued to mount through the finish, and when it reached its worst levels he responded with posts like those in the spoiler. Note the language: "the reasonings against me are ludicrous" / "I'm not as suspicious as you guys actually believe" -- these closely parallel what we've seen in this game. Dragomir seems to have a tendency to dismiss suspicion against him in this sort of obstinate, off-hand fashion. It doesn't have to be motivated by his role card if it's motivated by who he is.

Then consider the last post in the spoiler. Dragomir placed errant trust in much of the mafia team, and indeed in that game the attacks he received (in the specific posts I provided) were from members of the mafia (Mac and I). This sort of portends the reflections of suspicion he has displayed here.

I think this works in his favor.

[speedchuck]

speedchuck, why Rej?

Because not Dragomir. Dragomir's current play feels scummy, but doesn't make much sense as scumplay on further reflection.

I buy Dragomir's response to pressure better than Rej's. Rej has been on edge since the first time he was prodded.

@Rej what is your absolute favorite thing ever about sprityo in this here game thread?

Gimme a break I cant ISO posts on mobile, can I?

Felt like a disproportionate reaction, hardly worth noting at the time. But it's escalated to the point that he has a vote on you, and that read doesn't seem genuine. He's banking all of his analysis on the one Persona game, which is fallacious as heck. "JJJ isn't doing things exactly like he did in P5" is not a case, it's a justification.

[Rej]

Yeah, you are already taking the spotlight, so go make something out of it.

Nobody has done more in this thread than I have. I don't know where you get this stuff.

This is very offending (the statement in red). Like a wolf who tries too much to get attention from town, powerwolfing and almost angle-shooting here.

That red thing was a facetious reference to the grade school classroom. Maybe that's a cultural split if you don't recognize it; no clue how it could be "angle-shooting".

So JJJ just said he can't play like in the Persona game because of a reason that is not true. JJJ analysed minposter in the Persona game and now he can't do the same here?

I have made reads on minimal posters. I haven't "analyzed" them, and I never have. There's nothing to analyze. What exactly do you mean when you refer to analysis? I am thinking of wall posts and thorough cross-sections of ISOs, etc. Is that what you're talking about?

Angle-shooting by using phrases against the other person that have the chance to emotionally wound the person in real life.
Man I told you atm I don't buy that you are civillian. Or you are simply a "x-face". Where "x" can be an indicator for any number.

So you feel like powertowning, but you just engage with me and Drago? You trying to powertown could also be the same indicator for you being powerwolfing.

In the end idc, another game where I probably leave early on. And mafia would probably dayone me again anyway.

I will take a smoke and then ISO some other people.

[Rej]

The following tidbits come from Day 4 of the Scrimmage game, and not from this game. I wish only to draw a comparison:

Spoiler: show

You stand charged with copious TMI, a huge cobb salad, and a general unwillingness to adapt your reads to the developments of the game day to day.

TMI my ass. I had pinged 2 players as hard towns on perfectly logical reasons. You guys might do some bad things but one must have to ignore a great deal of things that proves you being town to say that you're scum and I find that asinine.

The salad means nothing. That shit is only bad if the player just suggest a bunch of ppl but then does nothing to push on them later on or has done nothing to push on them in past. The player is being passive and sheepish. That makes a salad really bad imo. If a player has been pushing for their salad players all game or at least tried to make cases on them, a salad is not scummy.

Why is this a bad thing and why should my reads have changed? Literally all the players in my scum reads have done absolutely nothing to convince to me that they're town. Not a single post of theirs is even town to me so why in bloody name's should my read change? The only that made me change my read on DDL was a cop invest. Like hell, how they interacted with Ultra hardly helps their(my scum reads) case if it does at all. I even ended up with a stronger scum read on Owner and DDL based off how Ultra's flip.

These reasonings against me are ludicrous.

Dragomir has been the most suspicious person since then and has somehow avoided lynching and the tide keeps turning away from him. I wonder why. Can we lynch him now please.

Because I'm not as suspicious as you guys actually believe.

I disagree

I disagree harder.

Don't think I'll ever say my town reads again. I just got pocketed by the entire mafia squad.

I acknowledge the contextual difference: different game, different time in the game. Whatever. I don't think those are super meaningful differences and so I proceed.

Dragomir took flak throughout this game, but he survived all of it. The criticism continued to mount through the finish, and when it reached its worst levels he responded with posts like those in the spoiler. Note the language: "the reasonings against me are ludicrous" / "I'm not as suspicious as you guys actually believe" -- these closely parallel what we've seen in this game. Dragomir seems to have a tendency to dismiss suspicion against him in this sort of obstinate, off-hand fashion. It doesn't have to be motivated by his role card if it's motivated by who he is.

Then consider the last post in the spoiler. Dragomir placed errant trust in much of the mafia team, and indeed in that game the attacks he received (in the specific posts I provided) were from members of the mafia (Mac and I). This sort of portends the reflections of suspicion he has displayed here.

I think this works in his favor.

told ya guys, you put a fucking vote on JJJ and he starts doing his thing. that's how easy it goes

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I like this. People scum reading me. More of what I'm used to.

...??????

If you guys can't at all agree with what I'm saying then I guess that's just too bad. I find all that fooling around that I did to be irrelevant and not at all scummy. You guys disagree. Let's agree to disagree and move on from this.

That's the second time you've made this defense-- "Oh, I don't think I looked scummy!" That's a very easy thing to say from a scum perspective as a defense. Not convincing.

These posts suck, nutella. The pile of question marks comes in response to an ordinary post, and the second post adds nothing but a further dampening of the atmosphere for Dragomir. "It's very easy to say from a scum perspective" means less when it can just as easily be said from a civilian perspective -- indeed it is not remotely rare for civilians to tell people that the suspicions against them are not actually suspicious. Everything is obviously in the eye of the beholder, but logic means fuck all. The real concern is sincerity. I don't get the impression you're looking for the latter.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

told ya guys, you put a fucking vote on JJJ and he starts doing his thing. that's how easy it goes

I just said a bit ago that I wanted to look into that when I could get to my computer.

[Dragomir]

I like this. People scum reading me. More of what I'm used to.

...??????

What's so confusing?

Only game I've seen you in you were a ubiquitous townread. Do you usually get scumread? Where? (perdon if this was already asked)

On my home forum, I generally get scum read early in the game.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Angle-shooting by using phrases against the other person that have the chance to emotionally wound the person in real life.

I'm not concerned with all the other stuff. I will address this though: I did not intend to hurt feelings or the like. It was meant to be humorous. I am sorry that it didn't land. I don't play the game that way.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

He's banking all of his analysis on the one Persona game, which is fallacious as heck. "JJJ isn't doing things exactly like he did in P5" is not a case, it's a justification.

I agree that it's fallacious, though that's something I am thinking about. Rej has only played one game with me, and it was that one. So it makes some sense that he'd be inclined to assess me on that basis.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm looking for a new wagon.

[Dragomir]

@Rej, why is Dragomir a civilian?

@Dragomir, why is Rej a civilian?

I don't know how to articulate it my thought on him.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[VOTE: Fayt] aubergine

[speedchuck]

He's banking all of his analysis on the one Persona game, which is fallacious as heck. "JJJ isn't doing things exactly like he did in P5" is not a case, it's a justification.

I agree that it's fallacious, though that's something I am thinking about. Rej has only played one game with me, and it was that one. So it makes some sense that he'd be inclined to assess me on that basis.

I saw that he'd played a couple other games, but didn't notice specifically that.

Small point in his favor. Someone approaching a game in a different way doesn't mean much unless there's a scum motive for the new approach, but Rej might not read that way

[Dragomir]

The following tidbits come from Day 4 of the Scrimmage game, and not from this game. I wish only to draw a comparison:

Spoiler: show

You stand charged with copious TMI, a huge cobb salad, and a general unwillingness to adapt your reads to the developments of the game day to day.

TMI my ass. I had pinged 2 players as hard towns on perfectly logical reasons. You guys might do some bad things but one must have to ignore a great deal of things that proves you being town to say that you're scum and I find that asinine.

The salad means nothing. That shit is only bad if the player just suggest a bunch of ppl but then does nothing to push on them later on or has done nothing to push on them in past. The player is being passive and sheepish. That makes a salad really bad imo. If a player has been pushing for their salad players all game or at least tried to make cases on them, a salad is not scummy.

Why is this a bad thing and why should my reads have changed? Literally all the players in my scum reads have done absolutely nothing to convince to me that they're town. Not a single post of theirs is even town to me so why in bloody name's should my read change? The only that made me change my read on DDL was a cop invest. Like hell, how they interacted with Ultra hardly helps their(my scum reads) case if it does at all. I even ended up with a stronger scum read on Owner and DDL based off how Ultra's flip.

These reasonings against me are ludicrous.

Dragomir has been the most suspicious person since then and has somehow avoided lynching and the tide keeps turning away from him. I wonder why. Can we lynch him now please.

Because I'm not as suspicious as you guys actually believe.

I disagree

I disagree harder.

Don't think I'll ever say my town reads again. I just got pocketed by the entire mafia squad.

I acknowledge the contextual difference: different game, different time in the game. Whatever. I don't think those are super meaningful differences and so I proceed.

Dragomir took flak throughout this game, but he survived all of it. The criticism continued to mount through the finish, and when it reached its worst levels he responded with posts like those in the spoiler. Note the language: "the reasonings against me are ludicrous" / "I'm not as suspicious as you guys actually believe" -- these closely parallel what we've seen in this game. Dragomir seems to have a tendency to dismiss suspicion against him in this sort of obstinate, off-hand fashion. It doesn't have to be motivated by his role card if it's motivated by who he is.

Then consider the last post in the spoiler. Dragomir placed errant trust in much of the mafia team, and indeed in that game the attacks he received (in the specific posts I provided) were from members of the mafia (Mac and I). This sort of portends the reflections of suspicion he has displayed here.

I think this works in his favor.

Could you explain how with the yellow?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Rej, why is Dragomir a civilian?

Dragomir, why is Rej a civilian?

I don't know how to articulate it my thought on him.

Alright, seriously. Let's sit down and have a heart-to-heart right now. Posts like this cannot continue to happen if you're a civilian -- they are going to continue to get you into trouble and eventually it will get you lynched.

If you genuinely don't know how to articulate it, that's okay. You're human. However, you need to try to do it anyway. There must be something about Rej, whether in his tone, or a specific thing in a post he made, or in his voting behavior -- something that gives you the confidence to vote for someone other than him. His lynch is your best chance at survival, and you're not going that direction. That's important, and it will really help the field to interpret your play if you can try to explain what's in your head.

[novaselinenever]

@Rej, why is Dragomir a civilian?

@Dragomir, why is Rej a civilian?

I don't know how to articulate it my thought on him.

Try, I'd like to hear them.

[Dragomir]

I like this. People scum reading me. More of what I'm used to.

...??????

If you guys can't at all agree with what I'm saying then I guess that's just too bad. I find all that fooling around that I did to be irrelevant and not at all scummy. You guys disagree. Let's agree to disagree and move on from this.

That's the second time you've made this defense-- "Oh, I don't think I looked scummy!" That's a very easy thing to say from a scum perspective as a defense. Not convincing.

These posts suck, nutella. The pile of question marks comes in response to an ordinary post, and the second post adds nothing but a further dampening of the atmosphere for Dragomir. "It's very easy to say from a scum perspective" means less when it can just as easily be said from a civilian perspective -- indeed it is not remotely rare for civilians to tell people that the suspicions against them are not actually suspicious. Everything is obviously in the eye of the beholder, but logic means fuck all. The real concern is sincerity. I don't get the impression you're looking for the latter.

I strongly agree with you. I might just replace my scum read on you with Nutella?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Could you explain how with the yellow?

You fielded fake suspicion from mafia in that game. It may contribute to a mindset now where you're more likely to view suspicion of you as fake and mafia-driven.

[novaselinenever]

Not sure why you're being so stubborn, you usually power through and share your thoughts even if difficult.

[novaselinenever]

It's so valuable

[novaselinenever]

[VOTE: Fayt] aubergine

Why?

[Dragomir]

Rej, why is Dragomir a civilian?

Dragomir, why is Rej a civilian?

I don't know how to articulate it my thought on him.

Alright, seriously. Let's sit down and have a heart-to-heart right now. Posts like this cannot continue to happen if you're a civilian -- they are going to continue to get you into trouble and eventually it will get you lynched.

If you genuinely don't know how to articulate it, that's okay. You're human. However, you need to try to do it anyway. There must be something about Rej, whether in his tone, or a specific thing in a post he made, or in his voting behavior -- something that gives you the confidence to vote for someone other than him. His lynch is your best chance at survival, and you're not going that direction. That's important, and it will really help the field to interpret your play if you can try to explain what's in your head.

Ok, give me a minute. I feel like I just got lectured by my dad.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[VOTE: Fayt] aubergine

Why?

1) ancillary suspect
2) reducing the dominance of the two lead wagons while I look around for a wagon I like more

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Ok, give me a minute. I feel like I just got lectured by my dad.

That's why they call me literally only I call me Papa Jay.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Rej is a better lynch than Dragomir, I think. I have doubts about both wagons with respect to the tone of both in response to criticism and with respect to their refusal to cross vote.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Does a mafia Rej on the chopping block decide that his best bet on Day 1 is to defend Dragomir and go after a very unlikely lynch of me?

It can make a little sense if they're both mafia, but even that seems dubious. Most teams probably just bus here.

[Dragomir]

Does a mafia Rej on the chopping block decide that his best bet on Day 1 is to defend Dragomir and go after a very unlikely lynch of me?

It can make a little sense if they're both mafia, but even that seems dubious. Most teams probably just bus here.

Hmm, brings up a question for me. To those that suspect, do you suspect Rej as well? Same for vice versa.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Alternative wagons are available, but they're underwhelming by definition. I have these people:

Fayt
sprityo
TSP

I don't feel any confidence calling them civilians. They also have < 5 posts, so.

[VOTE: nutella] aubergine can go ahead and answer my beefs.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

be back in a bit

[Rej]

Alternative wagons are available, but they're underwhelming by definition. I have these people:

Fayt
sprityo
TSP

I don't feel any confidence calling them civilians. They also have < 5 posts, so.

[VOTE: nutella] aubergine can go ahead and answer my beefs.

what you think about Mac?

brb wallpost incomming

[Rej]

First:

The [mention]Dragomir[/mention] case

Dragomir imho really plays off, I agree once to novas point that Dragomir is basically powering through. Drago comes off a bit offminded (if that's a word). I used so many off's sometimes I could think of an "uff". Drago only dared to counterpush JJJ and even when I placed a vote on JJJ Drago did not try to safe his ass. Some points that make it hard for me to read Drago, and if he is town he often gets himself read easily. That's also why Dragomir sometimes is a good N1 kill if there is no protection around him.

All in all Dragomir feels like he is hiding something, could also be anything tbh. He is unclear to me and indeed partially scummy for my taste.

[mention]JaggedJimmyJay[/mention]
this is my first answer to you and bringing forward my concern about Dragomir to Dragomir, so he can imply these points in his defense.

I also don't know anything about Long Con in this case. Dragomir likes to attack randomly.

About you, I was a bit harsh on you and since I don't know your scumplay I am cautious about everything, but I think we are fine if we decide to move on and expand our reads at that point.


about Mac, I must honestly say he started off as civillian and keeps it. He has a strong opinion and underlines it, even if shortly and he makes it hard to read him deeper, but only on a superficial point of view. He is buddying Fayt against Dragomir and me.

I thought Fayt was part of the recent MU wave but they're not lol

Sup Starlight

We already have something of substance to talk about, people. If you haven't already piped in, I want to know what y'all think of Dragomir or anything related to the conversation surrounding Dragomir.

So for the dragomir thing, I might be late on this because I haven't had a chance to reply until now. There are things I'm unsure of and this is off of first impressions but I do lean scum on him. As reasons stated above but also because of Dragomir not wanting to do first impressions but then jump onto another target (i.e. LC) so he must think of something about LC that strikes him as odd or did he just drop the LC name to get people off of his back.

Secondly, I don't think Dragomir and JJJ are bussing each other. If they are then I'm definitely fooled. If Dragomir turns out to be scum, I find Jay as town and vice versa. However, there is a chance they could both be town but I don't think both would be scum.

Fake. Super fake. Fayt is bad.

"I do lean scum on him". She is emphasising "I do" as opposed to just "I lean". She is responding someone who does not. There is only one person who has actively said that they do not and that is Rej. This is consequentially distancing of Rej.

The second paragraph spews both Jay and Drago as town.

This for example is literal stuff, like almost philosophy about grammar and it's true meaning behind it. I mean wtf at this point. Maybe I am to noobish for this shit, but I clearly didn't distance myself. I rather tried to engage and find something out for myself.
Like right now. You dissect Fayts wording, at this point it wasn't really needed but you used it to push Dragomir.

Okay either Drago is scum and you did a lucky push against Dragomir, coordinated with @Fayt. Or you are scum that really searched for an asspull to push Dragomir and help building a wagon on him.

I don't know what to think because of your generall strong towny appeareance...but I feel there was something off in your play or just very well coordinated.

I think more ISO on Mac is not needed. I wanna look into Dom vs Drago but first I will play Overwatch with a friend. So I will still track you guys until EoD.

[Rej]

[VOTE: NOONE] aubergine

[Rej]

Correction: Mac softpushed Dragomir by pressuring against his argumentations. The real push was on me. So he subtily pushed Dragomir and then went onwards to me. Conveniently? Or strong scum hunting play?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I don't see the transition from these:

Back to JJJ : I feel you are way too agressive to get a clear civ read from me. I dont know how scum profits from this but we got 2 fast wagons started up. And I feel town does not profit from these wagons. We still have time and need to wait for some replies.

JJJ is a wolf who's goal was to have 2 wagons running up in D1.

to this:

The @Dragomir case

Dragomir imho really plays off, I agree once to novas point that Dragomir is basically powering through. Drago comes off a bit offminded (if that's a word). I used so many off's sometimes I could think of an "uff". Drago only dared to counterpush JJJ and even when I placed a vote on JJJ Drago did not try to safe his ass. Some points that make it hard for me to read Drago, and if he is town he often gets himself read easily. That's also why Dragomir sometimes is a good N1 kill if there is no protection around him.

All in all Dragomir feels like he is hiding something, could also be anything tbh. He is unclear to me and indeed partially scummy for my taste.

If Dragomir is "hiding something" and "indeed partially scummy", then why is his wagon not profitable for the town?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The deadline is in 3.5 hours. This thread better not be a tortoise at that point.

[Rej]

I don't see the transition from these:

Back to JJJ : I feel you are way too agressive to get a clear civ read from me. I dont know how scum profits from this but we got 2 fast wagons started up. And I feel town does not profit from these wagons. We still have time and need to wait for some replies.

JJJ is a wolf who's goal was to have 2 wagons running up in D1.

to this:

The @Dragomir case

Dragomir imho really plays off, I agree once to novas point that Dragomir is basically powering through. Drago comes off a bit offminded (if that's a word). I used so many off's sometimes I could think of an "uff". Drago only dared to counterpush JJJ and even when I placed a vote on JJJ Drago did not try to safe his ass. Some points that make it hard for me to read Drago, and if he is town he often gets himself read easily. That's also why Dragomir sometimes is a good N1 kill if there is no protection around him.

All in all Dragomir feels like he is hiding something, could also be anything tbh. He is unclear to me and indeed partially scummy for my taste.

If Dragomir is "hiding something" and "indeed partially scummy", then why is his wagon not profitable for the town?

Because it is my thought process from the earlier statements to this one. Town not profitting from wagons was based on my own alignment. Becaue at first I felt like town formed wagons on town and scum was either sidelining or atleast on one of each of the wagons. I had to rivist my read on Dragomir using more meta reads on Dragomir to confirm for myself.

Maybe I am just a bad player because first I read Drago not in a concrete way but focussed on you and the expectations I had, then I switched back to Drago to read him more concretely. Imho this wasn't a big jump. But I feel you can track my opinion and see how I decide but still be in my roster.

Am I really flipflopping this hard LMAO?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Correction: Mac softpushed Dragomir by pressuring against his argumentations. The real push was on me. So he subtily pushed Dragomir and then went onwards to me. Conveniently? Or strong scum hunting play?

I'm not entirely following what you're saying about Mac. I believe Mac pushed Dragomir for a while, and then when he pushed you, he also by extension stopped pushing Dragomir -- he suspected you of TMI that Dragomir is a civilian.

[nutella]

I'm voting for Dragomir. I'm probably wrong. I don't care. I do stupid things. Like chase cars.

This really pisses me off. Epi is bad.

I.... think this is genuine frustration. I never actually placed a vote on Dragomir but if I had I would be unvoting right about now. That opens up the Fayt avenue (mac's spew theory) so I may look in that direction

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I'm voting for Dragomir. I'm probably wrong. I don't care. I do stupid things. Like chase cars.

This really pisses me off. Epi is bad.

I.... think this is genuine frustration. I never actually placed a vote on Dragomir but if I had I would be unvoting right about now. That opens up the Fayt avenue (mac's spew theory) so I may look in that direction

What? Why is that the post that moves you?

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Everyone, reads on nutella. Go.

[Dragomir]

Hmm, would scum Nutella stop pushing me or continue pressing the very likely lynch? I'm inclined to believe the latter. So right now, Nutella is in good looks.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Hmm, would scum Nutella stop pushing me or continue pressing the very likely lynch? I'm inclined to believe the latter. So right now, Nutella is in good looks.

Rej is the leading wagon, not you.