Inception [END]

[Pawn Lelouch]

mac is townreading me for no reason
dom is scumreading me for no reason

always fun to join new communities

I'm also super amused that the wagon on me is composed of:
- Texas, who has a bee in her bonnet because apparently I ought to be expecting her to throw her vote aroubd more
- four people who have never played with me before

also I have no clue what's up with this gimmick thing but on general principle I'm not gonna participate. Trying to read the entire game from six people is a bad plan.

i need to reread drago

not gonna tonight though

it is 11 pee em and i should sleep

Epignosis is speaking good words and people should listen to him

@Pawn Lelouch put your head together with Epi, between the two of you you can probably solve this

I do have a reason actually. You have a tell.

Honestly she has a fair few tells.

[nutella]

What actually is the point of saying "you're late to the game" to 112 re: vanity? Like, if you're just trying to express a positive reaction to them sharing a townread you have, no need to be so abrasive about it -- or were you actually trying to shade 112 there, and if so why? It's just awkward either way.

[Pawn Lelouch]

@MacDougall this post is unrelated to the jack discussion but was a turning point that opened my eyes to scummy!radish:

vanity lock town

You're late to the game on this one.

anyway this was around the same time as my interaction with him about jack, read through that for context, then he comes out with this:

Let's all vote jack then, since I'm clearly wrong about it.

which is the scummiest post in the game yet. cue my vote.

thoughts?

(a) I've been hard townreading vanity for a long time now

(2) You missed the part where four or five players criticised my Jack read, and I gave a 'lmao wow you guys hate that' post followed by the above quoted post. I see why you guys need a 'sarcasm' button on this board I guess.


Your read is bad and you should feel bad.

(1) I don't care, it was suspicious.
(b) I don't care, it was suspicious.

(i) It wasn't.
Two, it wasn't.

Hard town soul read on top of my already existing lean.

[Master Radishes]

Re: the Eva discussion

Is her 'tell' that she's forcing bad reads with bad reasoning? Because she's doing that. She seems to picking targets based on what will twist the game around her finger, rather than who she actually finds scummy.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

You’re badly misreading radishes tone and general approach imo

[nutella]

@MacDougall this post is unrelated to the jack discussion but was a turning point that opened my eyes to scummy!radish:

vanity lock town

You're late to the game on this one.

anyway this was around the same time as my interaction with him about jack, read through that for context, then he comes out with this:

Let's all vote jack then, since I'm clearly wrong about it.

which is the scummiest post in the game yet. cue my vote.

thoughts?

I don't understand why that specifically was wolfy. Wasn't it just a joke?

it wasn't a towny joke, that's for sure. Feel free to try and convince me otherwise but I don't see a townie naturally tossing in that line about someone they strongly townread. Even if it was meant to be fully sarcastic it's like some kind of weird bait and I don't like it.

[Master Radishes]

What actually is the point of saying "you're late to the game" to 112 re: vanity? Like, if you're just trying to express a positive reaction to them sharing a townread you have, no need to be so abrasive about it -- or were you actually trying to shade 112 there, and if so why? It's just awkward either way.

Because 112 was late in locking vanity in as town. I did that ages ago. It had nothing to do with 112 and everything to do with the fact that vanity is clearly town in my eyes and I'm expressing that belief.

It is becoming clear we play this game very differently from each other. Shame.

[MacDougall]

Re: the Eva discussion

Is her 'tell' that she's forcing bad reads with bad reasoning? Because she's doing that. She seems to picking targets based on what will twist the game around her finger, rather than who she actually finds scummy.

How she deals with people she is townreading suspecting her is different when she is scum vs. town imo. When she is town she gets frustrated and works around them. When she is scum she gets histrionic and attacks everything about them.

[nutella]

@MacDougall this post is unrelated to the jack discussion but was a turning point that opened my eyes to scummy!radish:

vanity lock town

You're late to the game on this one.

anyway this was around the same time as my interaction with him about jack, read through that for context, then he comes out with this:

Let's all vote jack then, since I'm clearly wrong about it.

which is the scummiest post in the game yet. cue my vote.

thoughts?

I found both posts very townie when I read them. Why are they scummy? The Jack post gave me a massive town ping.

Wild.

[nutella]

Okay, if mac doesn't see it then radish probably isn't the way to go. Where should I vote?

[nutella]

Re: the Eva discussion

Is her 'tell' that she's forcing bad reads with bad reasoning? Because she's doing that. She seems to picking targets based on what will twist the game around her finger, rather than who she actually finds scummy.

Yeah. And specifically she weirdly sheeped LLD on me, then backed off quickly when iaafr called her out, and at some point went right back to voting me. I feel like I missed something there.

My one hangup is the argument that lynching Eva D1 is -EV (heh that's sort of punny). But if she is scum and we let her live she'll continue to manipulate the thread in increasingly toxic ways.

Screw it [VOTE: evenstar] aubergine

[nutella]

You’re badly misreading radishes tone and general approach imo

I believe you

[nutella]

See how I trust other people's meta on players they have more experience with than I do. If only certain people would grant me the same deference

[nutella]

What actually is the point of saying "you're late to the game" to 112 re: vanity? Like, if you're just trying to express a positive reaction to them sharing a townread you have, no need to be so abrasive about it -- or were you actually trying to shade 112 there, and if so why? It's just awkward either way.

Because 112 was late in locking vanity in as town. I did that ages ago. It had nothing to do with 112 and everything to do with the fact that vanity is clearly town in my eyes and I'm expressing that belief.

It is becoming clear we play this game very differently from each other. Shame.

OK, I was just baffled at your phrasing as it came off rather arrogant/accusatory in a backhanded way. If that was unintentional so be it

[Master Radishes]

See how I trust other people's meta on players they have more experience with than I do. If only certain people would grant me the same deference

Actually, Mac has never played with me and Nook has all of one round in one game, albeit recently. I don't think they're meta-reading me.

[Pawn Lelouch]

Re: the Eva discussion

Is her 'tell' that she's forcing bad reads with bad reasoning? Because she's doing that. She seems to picking targets based on what will twist the game around her finger, rather than who she actually finds scummy.

Yeah. And specifically she weirdly sheeped LLD on me, then backed off quickly when iaafr called her out, and at some point went right back to voting me. I feel like I missed something there.

My one hangup is the argument that lynching Eva D1 is -EV (heh that's sort of punny). But if she is scum and we let her live she'll continue to manipulate the thread in increasingly toxic ways.

Screw it [VOTE: evenstar] aubergine

Nah, she isn't acting like Ate-star. This is her general town approach, and while I don't necessarily like how she does it, I view her style as play chaotic to generate reads based on how players interact with it and then use that as the initial base and evolve reads as need be.

Oftentimes with a fairly large willingness to sheep those that she trusts, to a somewhat detrimental level honestly.

It's fairly obvious when she is trying to manipulate the thread and she has not hit anywhere near that threshold yet.

[nutella]

wait, I remembered the sequence of events wrong and I don't think she ever actually backed off of her vote on me. I think what happened was she hadn't moved her vote in the poll yet so I saw that it was on radish instead of me after she'd called out a vote on me and acted sheepish at iaafr's callout, but she has never actually changed her vote after finalizing her vote on me. I don't think. So I had that bit wrong.

Still, her reaction to iaafr's callout was ambiguous and I thought she would move off me but she hasn't so idk what gives.

[nutella]

The real galaxy brain theory is that Eva and Pawn are scummates just straight up powerwolfing it out lmao.

[Pawn Lelouch]

The real galaxy brain theory is that Eva and Pawn are scummates just straight up powerwolfing it out lmao.

Tbh that's not a galaxy brain, that's totally how we would roll.

As is our town dynamic is this weird mix of basically being mason buddies and at each others throats intermittently which would work as a fun scum team dynamic to imitate.

[iaafr]

i actually do think epignosis is scum now and i keep mindmelding with 112

112 is locktwon forever

and i trust 112 m

[VOTE: epignosis] aubergine

[iaafr]

the list, it bothers me too much

[nutella]

The real galaxy brain theory is that Eva and Pawn are scummates just straight up powerwolfing it out lmao.

Tbh that's not a galaxy brain, that's totally how we would roll.

As is our town dynamic is this weird mix of basically being mason buddies and at each others throats intermittently which would work as a fun scum team dynamic to imitate.

So are you and LLD the townreads she has been sheeping as per your above description of her meta?

And [mention]MacDougall[/mention] what are the examples of her reactions to her townreads scumreading her in this game so far that have caused this so-called tell to convince you she's town?

[iaafr]

i also did not think those radishes posts were scummy in the slightest

[iaafr]

See how I trust other people's meta on players they have more experience with than I do. If only certain people would grant me the same deference

are you talking about hyena who you have literally one game with where you townread him correctly?

[nutella]

Mostly I want some explanation for her 180 from an extremely strong do-not-lynch townread of me to the chart thing totally convincing her I was scum. Was that really just her sheeping Pawn to a dangerous extent? And then the later vote sheeping LLD, why did she refuse to think for herself there? I feel like she's taking advantage of me somehow and trying to capitalize on minor things to spur a mislynch. Change my mind?

[iaafr]

i still think shes like locktown and you keep pinging me as scummy in lots of ways so thats where i am regarding that dichotomy

[iaafr]

orrrrrrrrr no maybe she is just scum and i should trust radishes who seems to think shes scum

[Michelle]

It’s like playing with Glorf if Glorf were an elephant

Who is Glorf, and why aren't they an elephant?

Glorf is famous for not discussing his alignment because he refuses to say he's town if he's not.

That's all I know though. I currently don't know this game's rules, the point system, or my alignment. Will figure those out and come back.

we have to wait for you to figure your own alignament ?

[nutella]

See how I trust other people's meta on players they have more experience with than I do. If only certain people would grant me the same deference

are you talking about hyena who you have literally one game with where you townread him correctly?

partially that, but in kind of a jokey way since I recognize I don't have scum meta on him; partially on my discussion with radish about Jack lol

[Pawn Lelouch]

The real galaxy brain theory is that Eva and Pawn are scummates just straight up powerwolfing it out lmao.

Tbh that's not a galaxy brain, that's totally how we would roll.

As is our town dynamic is this weird mix of basically being mason buddies and at each others throats intermittently which would work as a fun scum team dynamic to imitate.

So are you and LLD the townreads she has been sheeping as per your above description of her meta?

And @MacDougall what are the examples of her reactions to her townreads scumreading her in this game so far that have caused this so-called tell to convince you she's town?

Within the context of this game we're two of the examples, yeah.

[iaafr]

the thing about nutellas susses and townreads that i find weirdly overconfident

ive mindmelded with like... zero of them i think...? idk it just bugs me

[iaafr]

but maybe shes just town doing her own thing and 112 is the one pocketing me by anticipating where i mgiht tinfoil next still

but epignosis's reads list really did feel kinda scummy to me

[Pawn Lelouch]

Mostly I want some explanation for her 180 from an extremely strong do-not-lynch townread of me to the chart thing totally convincing her I was scum. Was that really just her sheeping Pawn to a dangerous extent? And then the later vote sheeping LLD, why did she refuse to think for herself there? I feel like she's taking advantage of me somehow and trying to capitalize on minor things to spur a mislynch. Change my mind?

That one was a weird case in terms of sheeping honestly, since she used my reads where I explicitly have you as one of the higher players to call you scum. So almost a weird inverted sheeping, like I can see the thought process that she had, I just don't agree with it.

And for the LLD one I viewed that as a case of trusting her and just being willing to see where it actually went, since it also called on Nook and myself.

And minor things to capitalize on a lynch is kind of funny just considering the short portion of the day that she has actually pushed you.

Like, I agree the logic behind it wasn't the soundest but it feels like you're trying to also make it a bigger thing than it was in actuality.

[iaafr]

im probably gonna stop tunneling nutella forever now because i just went back to where nutella sussed radishes and it felt organic

[Master Radishes]

orrrrrrrrr no maybe she is just scum and i should trust radishes who seems to think shes scum

Haven't decided. But she's no longer very green in my books.

[iaafr]

still dont want to go to radishes quite yet but ill move him down and reconsider him more

[iaafr]

where do you guys in the thread rn stand on epignosis and why?

[112]

but maybe shes just town doing her own thing and 112 is the one pocketing me by anticipating where i mgiht tinfoil next still

but epignosis's reads list really did feel kinda scummy to me

nah, actual mindmeld on epi's list

i'm not parapsychic enough to anticipate that stuff yet

[nutella]

Mostly I want some explanation for her 180 from an extremely strong do-not-lynch townread of me to the chart thing totally convincing her I was scum. Was that really just her sheeping Pawn to a dangerous extent? And then the later vote sheeping LLD, why did she refuse to think for herself there? I feel like she's taking advantage of me somehow and trying to capitalize on minor things to spur a mislynch. Change my mind?

That one was a weird case in terms of sheeping honestly, since she used my reads where I explicitly have you as one of the higher players to call you scum. So almost a weird inverted sheeping, like I can see the thought process that she had, I just don't agree with it.

And for the LLD one I viewed that as a case of trusting her and just being willing to see where it actually went, since it also called on Nook and myself.

And minor things to capitalize on a lynch is kind of funny just considering the short portion of the day that she has actually pushed you.

Like, I agree the logic behind it wasn't the soundest but it feels like you're trying to also make it a bigger thing than it was in actuality.

okay. I'm listening. Not all of my concerns have been assuaged but I can see what you're saying.

[nutella]

Do you guys really want to lynch Epi though.

[iaafr]

Do you guys really want to lynch Epi though.

well mac did rant about how good a scum player he is i think...? if im recalling correctly

[nutella]

where do you guys in the thread rn stand on epignosis and why?

I have to say that last playerlist post was not his best look, but certainly not lynch-worthy and I have townread him otherwise.

[iaafr]

i mean if im being honest with level of game engagement and stuff i think 112 is way more likely to be scum than epignosis

so i probably wont stay here

[112]

wagonomics/gut says creature and vanity are the wrongtowns on my wagon and epi is the wolf looking to either capitalize or safely sit on a wagon that won't really manifest.

[nutella]

[mention]MacDougall[/mention] are you still here? thoughts on epi? you are less eager to hand him a townread than I am so convince me I shouldn't?

[iaafr]

im gonna start a michelle wagon because i think the way she asks questions reminds me of garden gnomes scum game who also tends to ask way more questions that lead nowhere as scum

[VOTE: michelle] aubergine

[nutella]

wagonomics/gut says creature and vanity are the wrongtowns on my wagon and epi is the wolf looking to either capitalize or safely sit on a wagon that won't really manifest.

you're starting to make me think I don't do enough psychedelics to play mafia correctly

[nutella]

like, those are levels of thinking that would not even occur to me at this point. and epi while being drug-free is certainly capable of thinking on those levels

[iaafr]

eva is a mislynch get michelle

[nutella]

im gonna start a michelle wagon because i think the way she asks questions reminds me of garden gnomes scum game who also tends to ask way more questions that lead nowhere as scum

[VOTE: michelle] aubergine

I see where your reservations about michelle are coming from but my thing with her is she did the thing where she worries about being pocketed which imo is absolutely a towntell for her. but i've only played with her like 3 times (1 where she was scum, 1 where she was town and I was scum, 1 where we were both town) so idk