Inception [Inception Phase 4]

[Master Radishes]

I've seen a few things directed my way; I may or may not have time this morning to get to responding to them before work.

I'm a bit taken aback no one is seeing EoD as I did. With under 10 mins to go there was a sudden push of votes that nearly prevented Drago (the Godfather) from being lynched. The three votes that essentially nearly prevented a scum being lynched were Nova, Eva, and TSP. I don't understand how there's not a scum in there.

[iaafr]

This is how I feel rn about this game.


-Lexi

can you do at least one ostensibly pro town thing before i start to think this is a scum psychological warfare demoralization campaign

guessing not

[MacDougall]

This is how I feel rn about this game.


-Lexi

can you do at least one ostensibly pro town thing before i start to think this is a scum psychological warfare demoralization campaign

Lexi and I are working together to drive you all insane.

[Michelle]

]I'm out. your gifs are very disturbing for my eyes, i have a curious sensitivity at rapid movement on screen, and due to it i don't play video games.

@ me if you need me

[VOTE: @JJJ if you want me in your game go spoiler the gifs please and let me know. Thanks] aubergine

[Lady LambdaDelta]

This is how I feel rn about this game.


-Lexi

can you do at least one ostensibly pro town thing before i start to think this is a scum psychological warfare demoralization campaign

What you want me to be performatively pro-town so that I can gain your favour to avoid being lynched?

I'm gonna hate this game until we're allowed to play again, and maybe even still then, but still.

If you don't mind me flipping town you're welcome to excise me from this game

oh wait, it's hard to call for the votes for that when you can't even say who you want to lunch.

Here, have an anime gif to reflect this agony



-Lexi

[Pawn Lelouch]

This is how I feel rn about this game.


-Lexi

can you do at least one ostensibly pro town thing before i start to think this is a scum psychological warfare demoralization campaign

Tbh the gifs are hyping me up more than anything else but I can see your viewpoint with the ways the text is pushing towards.

[iaafr]

just like a townlist or scumlist that qualifies under restrictions

i shouldve been more explicit

thats all i want rly

[Pawn Lelouch]

Hm, some Zetsubou Sensei would work well with the ideas you're pushing for imo.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

I would like to remind everyone that if you ever have frustrations you’d like to air beyond the scope of standard Mafia play, especially with the hosting, you may send a PM to our Moderator on Duty: [mention]speedchuck[/mention]. We said this would be an unorthodox game. I have never run and will never run a bastard game. For those who do not understand or otherwise are bothered by the unique rules of this thread, please at least know that both Sloonei and I are experienced hosts. We care deeply about balance and fairness, and do not make decisions about rules willy nilly for our own amusement. These are the circumstances for a reason! If you have any questions or concerns, you should always feel free to ask us privately.

Please don’t interact with this post. I would prefer to let the game develop entirely without me!

[Lady LambdaDelta]

Oh I see.

I understand.

You want me to be happy!

I have a gif for this too.

Spoiler: show

Just a reminder that she's been dead the whole time <3

-Nyx

[Pawn Lelouch]

Oh I see.

I understand.

You want me to be happy!

I have a gif for this too.

Spoiler: show

Just a reminder that she's been dead the whole time <3

-Nyx

Like, I approve. But still, monster. ;_;

[Lady LambdaDelta]

just like a townlist or scumlist that qualifies under restrictions

i shouldve been more explicit

thats all i want rly

Okay but my dude that would involve me reading the game.

Something I literally cannot do because the entire day 1 thread has been removed from my access.

Unless you think something alignment relevant has been said in these 9 pages of torture.

-Lexi

[iaafr]

epi did some nice analysis posts that you could probably play off of but yeah not rly i guess

[Lady LambdaDelta]

epi did some nice analysis posts that you could probably play off of but yeah not rly i guess

Having read them, I have a read on Epi but I'm not allowed to say it in isolation because that breaks the rules.

[Lady LambdaDelta]

but that's okay

I'm sure this is a good game that doesn't make me want to Kermit.

Let's have hope.




-Nyx

[Master Radishes]

epi did some nice analysis posts that you could probably play off of but yeah not rly i guess

Having read them, I have a read on Epi but I'm not allowed to say it in isolation because that breaks the rules.

Pretty sure you're allowed to say if someone is town.

In fact, I'm pretty sure you're allowed to say 'I think Epi is suspicious because of x, y, z' - as long as you don't say anything along the lines of '...and I am likely to vote for him.'

[iaafr]

yeah youre allowed to case single players...

... idk its weird lol

[Lady LambdaDelta]

epi did some nice analysis posts that you could probably play off of but yeah not rly i guess

Having read them, I have a read on Epi but I'm not allowed to say it in isolation because that breaks the rules.

Pretty sure you're allowed to say if someone is town.

In fact, I'm pretty sure you're allowed to say 'I think Epi is suspicious because of x, y, z' - as long as you don't say anything along the lines of '...and I am likely to vote for him.'

...

but if he's the only person I ever express suspicion of by never posting for the rest of the day I literally break the rule

THESE RULES ARE BADLY WRITTEN, DON'T CHA KNOW



-Lexi

[Pawn Lelouch]

but that's okay

I'm sure this is a good game that doesn't make me want to Kermit.

Let's have hope.




-Nyx

Nah, despair is pretty great. In fact let's have some Broken Hope. (If only BB was here rn to hear this ;_;)

[Lady LambdaDelta]

Anyway Epi's posts are performative, not informative and they're designed to seep into the nature of people's want for content.

It's IIoA. They say many words, but not much in the end.

More than that, they're doing the Bullets for Bullets tactic I outlined in my scum guide. It feels like the goal of the posts is to be unreadably long and make you skim and say generally "agreeable" things people can't exactly contest without strictly committing anywhere.

[MacDougall]

Boing

[iaafr]

im just gonna air this thought out anyhow

different sites have different ideas of bastard

nonstandard voting + previously unannounced posting restrictions definitely fall under MU's idea of bastard

cant speak for other sites

i mean ill try but its definitely bastard imo

[Lady LambdaDelta]

But what do I know I'm stupid



-Lexi

[iaafr]

i disagree with unreadably long and performative but alright thats an opinion thx

[Master Radishes]

Game isn't until 8:08, so I have ten minutes.

Epignosis
Voted many hours before EoD – only reason I could see was in a later readslist: “Eh. Would lynch. (Great start, right?)”
Was around at EoD and barely engaged with the Drago/112 wagons – didn’t even vote Drago to self-preserve when he was briefly the counter-wagon to Drago

Conclusion: Suspicious

As far as I remember, my vote went there for no real reason at all. Reasons developed later. One big one for me was that 112 voted for me based on something he said- not something I said- and framed it as though it made me guilty. That's trash. That's trying to keep his hands clean voting for someone nobody was really talking about. Don't believe me? 112 ended up on Trustworthy Liberal- someone nobody was really talking about.

Bear in mind that if I'm bad, I am not letting my godfather get lynched Day 1. I know that might not mean anything to you since you do not know me, but when I am on a mafia team, I try to make optimal, coordinated decisions and not drop the ball. Letting your godfather get lynched Day 1 is arguably the most sub-optimal thing you can do.

If 112 is Dragomir's teammate, it makes all the sense in the world to let himself (112) get lynched. That would preserve the godfather. 112 didn't have the thread presence to push anybody else, couldn't vote for himself (and maintain any credibility), and if he voted for Dragomir late, he would be surrendering his godfather with less hope that he could be spared. I wonder if 112's hands were tied.

Thank you for the response, and I'm fine with your reasoning for voting 112. And obviously I agree with the rationale around preventing a Godfather lynch - hence why I'm so concerned about the last minute votes for 112 that smell like an attempt to save Drago. (Evenstar and Nova, that is.)

Re: third paragraph - I don't recall 112 being around at EoD, and their own wagon sprung up relatively quickly towards the end (it was floating around 2-3 votes, iirc, but only became a serious counter-wagon in the final, eh, 20-30 minutes or so). So I don't think there's much we can read into someone simply not being present.

[Lady LambdaDelta]

im just gonna air this thought out anyhow

different sites have different ideas of bastard

nonstandard voting + previously unannounced posting restrictions definitely fall under MU's idea of bastard

cant speak for other sites

i mean ill try but its definitely bastard imo

It's 100 percent bastard which is like..... it's so stupid

whatever



-Lexi

[iaafr]

radishes my main issue with your EOD analysis is that you seem to be taking it for granted that scum thought saving dragomir would be a longterm good plan and worth conspicuously saving despite his apparently horrible standing which would imply he wouldnt last more than 2 more phases imo

seems like an agendaed assumption

[MacDougall]

Not bastard

[Master Radishes]

Anyway Epi's posts are performative, not informative and they're designed to seep into the nature of people's want for content.

It's IIoA. They say many words, but not much in the end.

More than that, they're doing the Bullets for Bullets tactic I outlined in my scum guide. It feels like the goal of the posts is to be unreadably long and make you skim and say generally "agreeable" things people can't exactly contest without strictly committing anywhere.

I don't disagree. And as for the content of them, I haven't read each of Epi's posts, but of the ones I did, I agreed with a couple of his conclusions, but not strongly so; and I disagreed with a couple and wasn't sure how he arrived at his conclusions.

LLD - if you get a chance can you read what Epi said about Eva? I felt that one particularly was lacking, but admittedly I'm beginning to hone in on Eva as a potential scum based on her last-minute vote that nearly saved Godfather-Drago from being lynched.

[Lady LambdaDelta]

i disagree with unreadably long and performative but alright thats an opinion thx

See this is why we shouldn't even fucking bother with you people

there's exactly 0 chance you went back to read that shit and gave it a good view to see if he said anything remotely beyond vapid content

you just asked to be able to gutcheck on your own biases

and the do this to me

fuck this why the fuck do I bother



-Nyx

[JaggedJimmyJay]

]I'm out. your gifs are very disturbing for my eyes, i have a curious sensitivity at rapid movement on screen, and due to it i don't play video games.

@ me if you need me

[VOTE: @JJJ if you want me in your game go spoiler the gifs please and let me know. Thanks] aubergine

Hey gang, lets please respect Michelle here by placing gifs within spoilers. I understand the struggle, they can be hard on my eyes too. They’re fine to feature, just please spoiler them. Thank you!

[iaafr]

i disagree with unreadably long and performative but alright thats an opinion thx

See this is why we shouldn't even fucking bother with you people

there's exactly 0 chance you went back to read that shit and gave it a good view to see if he said anything remotely beyond vapid content

you just asked to be able to gutcheck on your own biases

and the do this to me

fuck this why the fuck do I bother



-Nyx

lmfao

[Master Radishes]

radishes my main issue with your EOD analysis is that you seem to be taking it for granted that scum thought saving dragomir would be a longterm good plan and worth conspicuously saving despite his apparently horrible standing which would imply he wouldnt last more than 2 more phases imo

seems like an agendaed assumption

The 112 counterwagon was a valid one, though - if 112 ended up lynched and flipped town, no one would point the finger at any one voter. 112 has been a viable scum candidate and we'd all shrug and move on.

As for Drago, there are plenty of valuable scum roles in the game, but surely the Godfather would be one worth saving if there's a chance?

I just don't see a scum attempt to prevent Drago's lynch as a risky move - if it had worked. And it nearly did. It was literally the last two minutes that Hyena and Long Con (I think) voted to lynch Drago.

[MacDougall]

Dragomir was a wolf?

[iaafr]

radishes my main issue with your EOD analysis is that you seem to be taking it for granted that scum thought saving dragomir would be a longterm good plan and worth conspicuously saving despite his apparently horrible standing which would imply he wouldnt last more than 2 more phases imo

seems like an agendaed assumption

The 112 counterwagon was a valid one, though - if 112 ended up lynched and flipped town, no one would point the finger at any one voter. 112 has been a viable scum candidate and we'd all shrug and move on.

As for Drago, there are plenty of valuable scum roles in the game, but surely the Godfather would be one worth saving if there's a chance?

I just don't see a scum attempt to prevent Drago's lynch as a risky move - if it had worked. And it nearly did. It was literally the last two minutes that Hyena and Long Con (I think) voted to lynch Drago.

idk i dont consider godfather particularly strong, especially in a setup where investigatives cant claim. but even outside of that, ive always considered godfathers low avg utility but with high variance/swinginess

if theres scum KP thatd be more valuable; i could imagine some other scum actions being more valuable but idk what the roles look like in this game at all

but the main point stands that

if 112 is scum, they have better standing than drago, and itd be better to let drago die imo, regardless of roles

if 112 is town, people would look at drago immediately because people would resolve the cw

i dont see godfather being particularly worth saving there or any reason to conspicuously save drago at all

[iaafr]

itd be a pretty noob move to want to throw evenstar, one of the tryhardest scum if scum, on 112 just to try to save drago like that

i mean ive seen it happen and i guess evenstar might be thinking on level 2 like looking bad looks good there because of people like me

but youre on level 1 and idk i dont rly buy level 1 evenstar saving drago and i think evenstar is town for other reasons

[iaafr]

new reads flip im suddenly pinged by lld and mr more and by extension i think michelle finding llds mass complaining sus looks good for her so lets go with a new bottom four of

lld radishes dom quin

[iaafr]

Anyway Epi's posts are performative, not informative and they're designed to seep into the nature of people's want for content.

It's IIoA. They say many words, but not much in the end.

More than that, they're doing the Bullets for Bullets tactic I outlined in my scum guide. It feels like the goal of the posts is to be unreadably long and make you skim and say generally "agreeable" things people can't exactly contest without strictly committing anywhere.

[mention]Pawn Lelouch[/mention] at some point i want your thoughts on this thought in particular

[Michelle]

Dragomir was a wolf?

derp clear denied, welcome to my Poe

[iaafr]

Dragomir was a wolf?

derp clear denied, welcome to my Poe

that post is a joke, michelle

he has indicated in earlier posts that he was aware of drago's alignment

[Michelle]

Dragomir was a wolf?

derp clear denied, welcome to my Poe

that post is a joke, michelle

he has indicated in earlier posts that he was aware of drago's alignment

oops.. i'll go read then.

[Pawn Lelouch]

I've seen a few things directed my way; I may or may not have time this morning to get to responding to them before work.

I'm a bit taken aback no one is seeing EoD as I did. With under 10 mins to go there was a sudden push of votes that nearly prevented Drago (the Godfather) from being lynched. The three votes that essentially nearly prevented a scum being lynched were Nova, Eva, and TSP. I don't understand how there's not a scum in there.

Oh there absolutely is, possibly even 2, I am just fairly certain that TSP is the guaranteed one. My ideal lynches today are (Nova, Dom, and probably Quin + the Rej replacement) with an heavy emphasis on one half of this group)

[iaafr]

problem is i actually like dom's #99 as a whole

and boy i wish i screenshotted or saved that quin iso somehow i remember reading it last night because i hadnt seen a single quin post and i thought it was juicy

but ic ant remember the nature of the juice

lol

i mean honestly how is this not bastard, not being able to read d1 lmao

[Michelle]

Spoiler: show

Subconscious Phase 1
Who threatens the subconscious mind?
Poll ended at Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:00 pm
Please note that if you vote, your vote will be visible.


112
7
23%
Voters: Creature, Evenstar, TonyStarkPrime, novaselinenever, Elephant, Epignosis, Jackofhearts2005
Benson
0
No votes
Voters: None
Creature
0
No votes
Voters: None
DFaraday
0
No votes
Voters: None
Dom
0
No votes
Voters: None
Dragomir
10
32%
Voters: Benson, nutella, vanity., Long Con, Master Radishes, Hyena, Trustworthy Liberal, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, Pawn Lelouch, juliets
Elephant
0
No votes
Voters: None
Epignosis
1
3%
Voters: MacDougall
Evenstar
3
10%
Voters: Texas Cloverleaf, sprityo, Quin
Hyena
2
6%
Voters: Dom, Michelle
iaafr
0
No votes
Voters: None
Jackofhearts2005
0
No votes
Voters: None
juliets
0
No votes
Voters: None
Lady Lambdadelta
0
No votes
Voters: None
Long Con
0
No votes
Voters: None
MacDougall
1
3%
Voters: Dragomir
Master Radishes
0
No votes
Voters: None
Michelle
0
No votes
Voters: None
NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
0
No votes
Voters: None
novaselinenever
0
No votes
Voters: None
nutella
1
3%
Voters: Lady LambdaDelta
Pawn Lelouch
0
No votes
Voters: None
Quin
0
No votes
Voters: None
Rej
0
No votes
Voters: None
Spiny Creature
0
No votes
Voters: None
sprityo
0
No votes
Voters: None
Texas Cloverleaf
0
No votes
Voters: None
TonyStarkPrime
0
No votes
Voters: None
Trustworthy Liberal
1
3%
Voters: 112
vanity.
0
No votes
Voters: None
No Lynch
2
6%
Voters: iaafr, boo
No vote presently/unvote
0
No votes
Voters: None
This is ONLY for hosts/non-players
3
10%
Voters: Sloonei, speedchuck, JaggedJimmyJay
Total votes: 31

++++

Subconscious Phase 1
Consolidated tally, easier to read

[10] Dragomir - Benson, nutella, vanity., Long Con, Master Radishes, Hyena, Trustworthy Liberal, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, Pawn Lelouch, juliets
[7] 112 - Creature, Evenstar, TonyStarkPrime, novaselinenever, Elephant, Epignosis, Jackofhearts2005
[3] Evenstar - Texas Cloverleaf, sprityo, Quin
[2] Hyena - Dom, Michelle
[2] No Lynch - iaafr, boo
[1] Epignosis - MacDougall
[1] MacDougall - Dragomir
[1] nutella - Lady LambdaDelta
[1] Trustworthy Liberal - 112

if we think at gidfather's role as not being so important like Iaafr says then he was maybe bussed, and so we have to tinfoil later in the game his wagon. I would go for agenda-y players before this.

Based on Drago voting Mac i don't know if we can clear him and put him as lock town.

Maybe the godfather has a back up as green peek so Drago played bad on purpose.

I would take more notes too if i knew we cannot see the day 1 anymore, my notes are all until post 900 and after i gave up from lack of time.

[iaafr]

im replacing dom in my list with pawn maybe

because i feel like pawn shouldve reacted to that lld read of epi by now

and the lld read of epi is clearly counterfactual to me, there are a lot of individual thoughts that dont spell out the work but make sense

not much iioa, he has takes on almost everything and its clear when he hedges and the hedges feel natural too

none of his cases are unreadably long, if anything they're designed to be pretty readable

etcetcetc

[iaafr]

that makes my current scum list...

lady lambdadelta master radishes pawn lelouch

im just gonna drop quin off because i just remember that one post i saw made me think he was towny and like there was a real fiery push on tsp there

[iaafr]

calling it a night

tomorrows busy af for me actually but im sure my obsession will have me here at some points

[Pawn Lelouch]

Anyway Epi's posts are performative, not informative and they're designed to seep into the nature of people's want for content.

It's IIoA. They say many words, but not much in the end.

More than that, they're doing the Bullets for Bullets tactic I outlined in my scum guide. It feels like the goal of the posts is to be unreadably long and make you skim and say generally "agreeable" things people can't exactly contest without strictly committing anywhere.

@Pawn Lelouch at some point i want your thoughts on this thought in particular

Well for starters I laugh at the idea that the posts were unreadably long and designed to skim when they barely break 2 paragraphs total for the longest ones.

Now the question here is if they actually fall under informative or not. And I know you're going to call me a fence sitter again but I'm conflicted for that aspect.

He has some genuinely good insights in some of the posts, but oftentimes he is posting one to two word answers on if he agree with a post or not without ever explaining why he thinks this. So leaves the thought process blank and let's people just think up a reason and let's our imagination do the work for him as to why he feels this way.

Some of this could absolutely be the clear laziness he felt in some of the later ones showing up, but it's honestly semi-consistent as I am reading through them all.

I town lean read him regardless of this analysis, but in regards to LLD's assertion I think one is flat out wrong and the other one is very much one that depends on perspective. Since it feels like very little to me but I am also a heavy wall poster when I am doing proper analysis so I have a self admitted bias on this front.

While the flat out wrong section is a small ding against LLD imo.

[iaafr]

its not a small ding its a

Spoiler: show

imho but meh

pretty reasonable take tbh

[Pawn Lelouch]

Sorry about the delay in writing the lld response and the MR one.

Got kinda distracted talking politics with a friend in texts for awhile and didn't really check the thread while I was doing so.