Inception [END]

[vanity.]

Ugh vanity, the only thing Im nervous about is how concerned you are about how "villagery" you've been. That just makes me suspect you're a wolf that thinks he played a clean game and deserves credit.

literally if you think i'm villagery, i'm probably a villager. that's how my meta goes unless i am able to get to a point where i am able to blur my ranges.

[vanity.]

every single time i've been a villager i've been townread in a decent rate. not an exception here.

[vanity.]

where's your head at at the moment hyena?

[nutella]

Huh, well vanity seems to have gone full rage-mode over having votes which is reading way more cornered baddie than upset civ to me. I didn't find the cases compelling enough to consider a vote for him, but now I'm kind of inclined to.

lol.

i wouldn''t be upset at all if i wasn't actually being villagery. i've had a villagery game so far and plenty of people have noticed. it's just unfortunate that there's no one like that in this group.

also me raging like that is probably in both of my ranges but i think i would have more courtesy as a wolf overall

you just admitted to not really looking like your town self, now this staunch defense of your towniness lol.

But actually I am thinking you'd have responded to the accusations more thoroughly and systematically if you were a caught wolf, idk. The degree of your flailing is hard to evaluate strictly as one alignment or the other.

[nutella]

Ugh vanity, the only thing Im nervous about is how concerned you are about how "villagery" you've been. That just makes me suspect you're a wolf that thinks he played a clean game and deserves credit.

But he did the same thing in wc1 to some extent.

I'm still uneasy about him but not feeling great about actually voting him anymore. [VOTE: boo] aubergine

[vanity.]

I changed to the computer to do a proper multi-quote ISO. The takeaway:
- Vanity tunnels Juliets from the star, never re-evaluates
- vanity is quite self-conscious on how towny he's being
- vanity thinks Benson subtly shading him as a wolf, @Benson denies
- vanity stalls any initiative to introduce structured conversation
- vanity votes players pushing her: he votes me for suggesting that he could have engaged Jack instead of observing that no group talk was happeneing, and votes Michelle for pushing him over that unmotivated vote
- vanity's reads have very obvious strong player bias
- vanity attempts an in-thread ISO of Michelle
- vanity announces intent to "kill Drago" at -1:45, his reason on the actual vote is "don't want epi lynched"
- vanity establishes a D2 pool of suspects along his old, biased reads
- vanity skips a day
- Subjectively, vanity does not feel like the town!vanity from wildcards 1.

Actually, that's more than I remembered seeing. I'm less happy with this ISo than I am with Trustworthy Liberal's, because I can understand Trusrtworthy Liberal, but I do not understand this.

okay so i'm not going to address the quote wall that they concocted because it bores me.

again, i never reevaluate juliets? why is that wolfy? has juliets been villagery to you> if so, why? juliets game to me screams of caution. nothing she has done in my opinion is really sticking her neck out for the village at all. she has some decent content, but she reminds me of like... kristoph gavin, from the ace attorney series. so careful, so cautious, so meticulous. it gives me the heebie-jeebies.

i've addressed this, but i'm self-conscious as a villager. i even was in wc1, i'm pretty sure! i'm aware of villagery things to do as a villager, and so i do those villagery things to get townread. it's that simple. i'm actually more cautious of a villager, than as a wolf! but you can believe that if you'd like.

i don't understand the point you're making regarding benson. i thought i've been vocal about thinking benson was villagery at a certain point. he doesn't trust me, and that's fine. he's still a villager most likely.

OMGUS'ING IS LITERALLY BOTH MY WOLF GAME AND MY VILLAGER GAME, EVEN MORE SO MY VILLAGER GAME. let me bring you back to wc1. the first person i had a really strong wolf read on, was ccc. i proceeded to lead the village on ccc because i was that convinced he was a wolf. and reminder, ccc wasn't shy about their wolfread on myself as well! of course, he was town, but c'mon. this is not a point against me. at all.

okay, next point. my reads have a strong player bias? let me clue you in on something. a lot of the players in this game, are strong players. this is an invitational for crying out loud! if a lot of my reads are centered around stronger players, it's because a good bulk of the players in this game, are strong players. c'mon.

my in thread iso of michelle means nothing towards my alignment. moving on.

i will concede that my reasoning for pushing drago was more so because i didn't want epi to be lynched d1. but where's the problem in this? i'm a powerwolfer. just gonna tell you upfront. i would NOT want drago lynched d1, especially not when he's the godfather! what the fuck am i doing there if i'm a wolf? oh, and i don't like bussing. not to the extent that i would never do, but you should never assume i'm bussing in any scenario.

"old, biased reads." c'mon dude. i was just coming in at the beginning of the day. and, not all of my reads where biased! if i remember, i was v reading nutella and benson at the start. in this group, they were my most confident villagers. and if you remember, hyena was another villager read of mine. so if my reads are truly biased, why didn't i townread hyena at the beginning of the day? this attack doesn't work.

again, I SKIPPED A DAY BECAUSE I FORGOT ABOUT THE GAME AND WAS BUSY WITH ANOTHER. and i was exhausted for most of that day as well. bite me.

and above all else, this game is not me during champs. i don't have a ton of time nowadays. i work in retail, specifically docking and stocking. it's taxing. it's backbreaking. most days i wanna just nap after doing my job. and on top of that, i'm weak! i'm not a very strong person physically! i don't mind it, but it's not ideal. i had all the free time in the world during champs to post and be villagery and push my reads. i don't have that same time now. i admit that you don't have that context, but again, if i'm in the thread, i'm posting. i wasn't in the thread because i forgot about the game, occupied by another. and i don't do well playing 2 games at the same time.

[vanity.]

Huh, well vanity seems to have gone full rage-mode over having votes which is reading way more cornered baddie than upset civ to me. I didn't find the cases compelling enough to consider a vote for him, but now I'm kind of inclined to.

lol.

i wouldn''t be upset at all if i wasn't actually being villagery. i've had a villagery game so far and plenty of people have noticed. it's just unfortunate that there's no one like that in this group.

also me raging like that is probably in both of my ranges but i think i would have more courtesy as a wolf overall

you just admitted to not really looking like your town self, now this staunch defense of your towniness lol.

But actually I am thinking you'd have responded to the accusations more thoroughly and systematically if you were a caught wolf, idk. The degree of your flailing is hard to evaluate strictly as one alignment or the other.

being my normal villagery self, does not equal me being villagery.

if i was my normal villagery self, i would be way more active and actively searching for wolves. i'm not doing that right now. but i will, lemme just sort through a couple things real quick

[Benson]

The vote from boo was not good. He seemed more annoyed at vanity's general approach, rather than thinking he's a wolf.

[Hyena]

The Elephant brain take of today's events is depressing. We started off with vanity. suggesting to look at a group of 5 players only, those whom I have mentally dubbed The Expendables, and despite my protests, this is largely what we have been doing. The fruit of this effort leaves us no wiser than before. DFaraday is still absent. Boo acted as I did, and voted outside the box, but found no traction. Trustworthy Liberal stayed in character and stood up for himself. Long Con actually made a case inside the box, and we looked at it and said "meh". Juliets was Juliets, digging. Elephant was Elephant, seeds and all.

vanity. is absent. Long Con's D1 vote looks like a bus, but his rainbow reads already have Dragomir at the bottom. We are looking at the votes that were called out; Juliets, do you know if there were votes that had no call-outs? We have somehow been treading water all day, and I wonder why.

I am going to be absent later on as I need to be a Singing Elephant today. I hope to be back in time to maybe sling my vote somewhere else and not stay on my vanity wagon, and who knows if I'll ever have an opportunity for that pun again.

Perhaps I haven't been very vocal about my thoughts on what's gone on today. From The Expendables, both Juliets and Long Con have climbed up in my town rankings, Boo is in null territory for me but I feel like I'll have an easier time reading him than I did Spiny given enough time, TLib potentially townslipped, you are you, and Creature is eh, okay I guess? DFaraday is mostly just a policy lynch for me at this point, and even then, I'm seriously considering going somewhere else just for the lack of info from a DFaraday lynch.

Outside of the The Expendables, Benson has climbed up to my top town slot, Vanity has fallen down in my town rankings, Nutella too to a certain degree.

[vanity.]

okay so

boo thinking my defensiveness was coming off as wolfy actually reads to me as someone who doesn't know how to read me. rand v, but... don't know. not confident in it. i thought it sounded better when i made the post tbh lol

i was channeling my inner macdougall, i swear!

[Hyena]

Ugh as much as I feel attached to my spiny suspicion I have to say boo is looking town now. I think his takes are largely misguided due to culture clash, but I think he really believes them.

If I had felt more strongly that Spiny was scum from the interaction I had with her, I probably would've joined you, but like, I wasn't feeling it in this case. And yeah, I'm feeling the same way about Boo.

[Benson]

I'm at the point where I have a good suspicion one of Elephant or Juliets is a wolf, but probably never together. This inference hinges on vanity being town, however

[Hyena]

where's your head at at the moment hyena?

I'm still parsing you vs. Elephant+Boo. Before it happened, I was on the fence between you and Elephant so much that DFar seemed like the better option. Give me some more time, and I'll give you a better idea of where I'm at.

[Benson]

[mention]vanity.[/mention] how are you interpreting your wagon right now? Who do you think are the wolf pushers and the villager pushers?

[vanity.]

the only thing i remember about spiny is that evenstar really strongly townread them

mmmmmmm

don't know what that means

[vanity.]

@vanity. how are you interpreting your wagon right now? Who do you think are the wolf pushers and the villager pushers?

i'm probably biased, i think the boo is the most likely v that's voting me at the moment. i already talked about how juliets' play spooks me. elephant's case is predicated on nitpicking and falsehoods and simply not alignment indicative stuff but he can die right now

pushing on me just kinda feels like kicking a man while he's down, which i guess is why i had such a strong reaction to it

[vanity.]

why is tlib a v to you hyena?

[Hyena]

Okay, I've decided what I wanted to do with TLib. Sorry for doing this, TLib.

Also if i read that right Tony was just a Vanilla Towny (or the equivalent) please correct me if i am reading that wrong

I recall someone mentioning that scum gets fakeclaims to use. Is this correct? If so, this is the possible townslip/PR slip that I saw from TLib.

[vanity.]

Okay, I've decided what I wanted to do with TLib. Sorry for doing this, TLib.

Also if i read that right Tony was just a Vanilla Towny (or the equivalent) please correct me if i am reading that wrong

I recall someone mentioning that scum gets fakeclaims to use. Is this correct? If so, this is the possible townslip/PR slip that I saw from TLib.

hyena, people can't talk about their roles publicly.

[vanity.]

is there any merit in reading elephant's quote wall post on me

i know i did that in champs and was right but it's not a good way of making a case at all lol

[Long Con]

It's tough to judge vanity without ever having played with him before. Exasperated claims to his villagery-ness don't really do a lot for me.

I don't like the look of boo's hop on to the vanity vote though, it looks opportunistic. The "Did you miss the D1 lynch result? The only "we" that makes sense there is you're mafia..." is not something that feels like honest scumhunting either.

Looks like the TL wagon isn't really taking off, so I'll check out the boo one instead. [VOTE: spiny boo] aubergine

[juliets]

I'm at the point where I have a good suspicion one of Elephant or Juliets is a wolf, but probably never together. This inference hinges on vanity being town, however

Then by all means vote for me. I am tired of this game. I have been called a bad player because I am methodical and meticulous, I have been called lazy after I worked my ass off on that vote analysis and put all my effort into responding to people. I have been compared to some cartoon character I don't even know. I spend all my free time on this game and am not enjoying it. Its like another job.

I can die and join the spectator chat and have fun with Ty4on and whoever else is there, maybe TSP and Texas. I can speculate and be myself, cautious and methodical.

Maybe you will learn something from my lynch. I am humor by the way, how ironic.

[Benson]

Okay, I've decided what I wanted to do with TLib. Sorry for doing this, TLib.

Also if i read that right Tony was just a Vanilla Towny (or the equivalent) please correct me if i am reading that wrong

I recall someone mentioning that scum gets fakeclaims to use. Is this correct? If so, this is the possible townslip/PR slip that I saw from TLib.

As per Drago's role card they do get safe claims. There's also a sample vanilla card in the OP.

That is possibly a telling comment for TLib to make, all things considered.

[Hyena]

Okay, I've decided what I wanted to do with TLib. Sorry for doing this, TLib.

Also if i read that right Tony was just a Vanilla Towny (or the equivalent) please correct me if i am reading that wrong

I recall someone mentioning that scum gets fakeclaims to use. Is this correct? If so, this is the possible townslip/PR slip that I saw from TLib.

hyena, people can't talk about their roles publicly.

Okay, I won't talk about this anymore then.

[Benson]

[VOTE: boo] aubergine

[Long Con]

Okay, I've decided what I wanted to do with TLib. Sorry for doing this, TLib.

Also if i read that right Tony was just a Vanilla Towny (or the equivalent) please correct me if i am reading that wrong

I recall someone mentioning that scum gets fakeclaims to use. Is this correct? If so, this is the possible townslip/PR slip that I saw from TLib.

I don't really understand. What he said is what I got from Tony's flip as well.

[nutella]

I'm at the point where I have a good suspicion one of Elephant or Juliets is a wolf, but probably never together. This inference hinges on vanity being town, however

I like this. I have been weirded out by juliets' busywork with the vote order and then her copy pasting of elephant's case.

[juliets]

I'm at the point where I have a good suspicion one of Elephant or Juliets is a wolf, but probably never together. This inference hinges on vanity being town, however

I like this. I have been weirded out by juliets' busywork with the vote order and then her copy pasting of elephant's case.

Do it.

[Benson]

I'm at the point where I have a good suspicion one of Elephant or Juliets is a wolf, but probably never together. This inference hinges on vanity being town, however

Then by all means vote for me. I am tired of this game. I have been called a bad player because I am methodical and meticulous, I have been called lazy after I worked my ass off on that vote analysis and put all my effort into responding to people. I have been compared to some cartoon character I don't even know. I spend all my free time on this game and am not enjoying it. Its like another job.

I can die and join the spectator chat and have fun with Ty4on and whoever else is there, maybe TSP and Texas. I can speculate and be myself, cautious and methodical.

Maybe you will learn something from my lynch. I am humor by the way, how ironic.

Whoa, it was just a suspicion Juliets! I don't think you're bad, lazy, or anything negative. You have put in substantial work, I see that.
Being productive doesn't preclude you being a wolf in my mind.

[nutella]

Okay, I've decided what I wanted to do with TLib. Sorry for doing this, TLib.

Also if i read that right Tony was just a Vanilla Towny (or the equivalent) please correct me if i am reading that wrong

I recall someone mentioning that scum gets fakeclaims to use. Is this correct? If so, this is the possible townslip/PR slip that I saw from TLib.

Don't get how this is a slip. Both the fakeclaims (from dragos flip) and an example of a vanilla town pm are public information.

[Hyena]

So, it's about 1:45pm where I am and day ends at 6:00pm. I need to go out and run some errands, but I should definitely be back here with plenty of time for more discussion pre-EoD. Catch you all later. :P

[juliets]

I'm at the point where I have a good suspicion one of Elephant or Juliets is a wolf, but probably never together. This inference hinges on vanity being town, however

Then by all means vote for me. I am tired of this game. I have been called a bad player because I am methodical and meticulous, I have been called lazy after I worked my ass off on that vote analysis and put all my effort into responding to people. I have been compared to some cartoon character I don't even know. I spend all my free time on this game and am not enjoying it. Its like another job.

I can die and join the spectator chat and have fun with Ty4on and whoever else is there, maybe TSP and Texas. I can speculate and be myself, cautious and methodical.

Maybe you will learn something from my lynch. I am humor by the way, how ironic.

Whoa, it was just a suspicion Juliets! I don't think you're bad, lazy, or anything negative. You have put in substantial work, I see that.
Being productive doesn't preclude you being a wolf in my mind.

No, I'm not saying it should. But being called lazy? That was just harsh and rude and uncalled for.

[nutella]

I'm at the point where I have a good suspicion one of Elephant or Juliets is a wolf, but probably never together. This inference hinges on vanity being town, however

Then by all means vote for me. I am tired of this game. I have been called a bad player because I am methodical and meticulous, I have been called lazy after I worked my ass off on that vote analysis and put all my effort into responding to people. I have been compared to some cartoon character I don't even know. I spend all my free time on this game and am not enjoying it. Its like another job.

I can die and join the spectator chat and have fun with Ty4on and whoever else is there, maybe TSP and Texas. I can speculate and be myself, cautious and methodical.

Maybe you will learn something from my lynch. I am humor by the way, how ironic.

hmmm I never know how to read you but idk if I've ever seen anything like this before. Burnout is real though and I'm sorry you're feeling that way (and sorry for poo-pooing your busy work)

[nutella]

I'm at the point where I have a good suspicion one of Elephant or Juliets is a wolf, but probably never together. This inference hinges on vanity being town, however

I like this. I have been weirded out by juliets' busywork with the vote order and then her copy pasting of elephant's case.

Do it.

...bitch??

[Benson]

I'm at the point where I have a good suspicion one of Elephant or Juliets is a wolf, but probably never together. This inference hinges on vanity being town, however

Then by all means vote for me. I am tired of this game. I have been called a bad player because I am methodical and meticulous, I have been called lazy after I worked my ass off on that vote analysis and put all my effort into responding to people. I have been compared to some cartoon character I don't even know. I spend all my free time on this game and am not enjoying it. Its like another job.

I can die and join the spectator chat and have fun with Ty4on and whoever else is there, maybe TSP and Texas. I can speculate and be myself, cautious and methodical.

Maybe you will learn something from my lynch. I am humor by the way, how ironic.

Whoa, it was just a suspicion Juliets! I don't think you're bad, lazy, or anything negative. You have put in substantial work, I see that.
Being productive doesn't preclude you being a wolf in my mind.

No, I'm not saying it should. But being called lazy? That was just harsh and rude and uncalled for.

OK, fair. I understand being called lazy when you have been doing work is infuriating.

I'm leaning towards villagery frustration on this.

[juliets]

Moving my vote to boo

[VOTE: boo] aubergine

[vanity.]

I'm at the point where I have a good suspicion one of Elephant or Juliets is a wolf, but probably never together. This inference hinges on vanity being town, however

Then by all means vote for me. I am tired of this game. I have been called a bad player because I am methodical and meticulous, I have been called lazy after I worked my ass off on that vote analysis and put all my effort into responding to people. I have been compared to some cartoon character I don't even know. I spend all my free time on this game and am not enjoying it. Its like another job.

I can die and join the spectator chat and have fun with Ty4on and whoever else is there, maybe TSP and Texas. I can speculate and be myself, cautious and methodical.

Maybe you will learn something from my lynch. I am humor by the way, how ironic.

okay 1, i'm sorry if i'm making you feel like shit. i don't know the caliber of player you are, but you don't strike me as a bad player, a pretty good one actually!

but with all due and respect, this feels overblown. the reason i called the post lazy is because your compilation of elephant's case. not only that, i didn't call you specifically lazy, i believe you when you say you put a lot of effort into that post! it just didn't seem like a lot of effort to me because i glanced at it, squinted at it, and noticed that, from my view, you didn't do anything other than take elephant's case and chopped a few limbs off. again, you're not lazy, the post just radiated that feel to me personally. i'm not trying to attack you, just trying to convey how i feel. if others feel like shit, i start feeling like shit. so again, i'm sorry

and what's wrong with being compared to a cartoon character? characters are crafted with the intent of conveying certain ideas. the way you played reminded me of a character and i used it to explain how i felt. that's why characters are so great in the first place! but maybe we just have conflicted ideals in this department

more so than anything else i just feel we look at not just the game of mafia differently, but just worldview things differently. regardless of how upset you are right now, i want to try and work out those differences. if you don't want to, then just ignore me.

[Benson]

I'm looking forward to TL's thoughts on all this; and it better not just be another Monica gif.

[vanity.]

I'm looking forward to TL's thoughts on all this; and it better not just be another Monica gif.

spoiler: monica gif incoming

[vanity.]

i've been told i'm' brutally honest. so that's just how i'm being right now.

[Long Con]

I'm at the point where I have a good suspicion one of Elephant or Juliets is a wolf, but probably never together. This inference hinges on vanity being town, however

Then by all means vote for me. I am tired of this game. I have been called a bad player because I am methodical and meticulous, I have been called lazy after I worked my ass off on that vote analysis and put all my effort into responding to people. I have been compared to some cartoon character I don't even know. I spend all my free time on this game and am not enjoying it. Its like another job.

I can die and join the spectator chat and have fun with Ty4on and whoever else is there, maybe TSP and Texas. I can speculate and be myself, cautious and methodical.

Maybe you will learn something from my lynch. I am humor by the way, how ironic.

Whoa, it was just a suspicion Juliets! I don't think you're bad, lazy, or anything negative. You have put in substantial work, I see that.
Being productive doesn't preclude you being a wolf in my mind.

No, I'm not saying it should. But being called lazy? That was just harsh and rude and uncalled for.

I did not have the same perspective as you on the "lazy" thing. He wasn't saying you didn't put time and care into the post, he was saying that it is mentally lazy to copy and paste someone else's thoughts rather than come up with your own.

I totally get why you made that post with points from Elephant, because you explained it understandably. It couldn't be any other way because it was a specific answer to a question, like "what was it about Elephant's case you liked" or something.

vanity reacted worse to it than I think was warranted, but he was getting upset about not being townread for his natural towniness, so... not altogether reasonable to me.

[Long Con]

So I guess the linkitis feature is turned off, right?

[juliets]

[mention]vanity.[/mention]

Looking at my response to Benson may have looked like I just took his post and chopped it up but I went through each thing line item by line item and decided whether to include it. You made some good points about some of those things, and when I revisited it I saw some things that were probably more NAI. And maybe what it boiled down to is I don't remember you being like this in wc1. You have explained that too now so I am satisfied and moved off of you. Maybe I went overboard in trying to vote more often like the rest of you do, moving from person to person.

I'll try and work with you just please remember I am in rl someone who built a career on looking at the facts, weighing the evidence, and not doing anything hastily so this way of playing is not my normal style. Please don't make fun of me for it, I am trying my best to break out of it.

[nutella]

So I guess the linkitis feature is turned off, right?

Yes Jay announced that a while ago, if you object you can pm him

[Benson]

Pick the wolf in each pair (or say "no wolf/multiple wolves" if you want)

Elephant/Juliets
Boo/Long Con
Dfaraday/TLib
vanity/hyena (I'm a bit doubtful there'd be a wolf here, but whatever)
creature/nutella/ya boy benson

I have reason to think the first few groups have a wolf in each pair. The latter groups are more or less random.

[DFaraday]

I don’t think I’ve ever played with Vanity, so can’t speak to his meta, but everything I’m seeing about him comes across more as careless town than baddie. It doesn’t feel like some kind of calculated scum ploy.

I’m not sure if I’ll be back before eod, but I’ll vote TL since he’s my only suspicion so far.

I don’t suspect anyone voting me, since this is a thing every time.

[Benson]

So I guess the linkitis feature is turned off, right?

Yes Jay announced that a while ago, if you object you can pm him

what kind of heathen would object to that?

[DFaraday]

[VOTE: TrustworthyLiberal] aubergine

[Benson]

@vanity.

Looking at my response to Benson may have looked like I just took his post and chopped it up but I went through each thing line item by line item and decided whether to include it. You made some good points about some of those things, and when I revisited it I saw some things that were probably more NAI. And maybe what it boiled down to is I don't remember you being like this in wc1. You have explained that too now so I am satisfied and moved off of you. Maybe I went overboard in trying to vote more often like the rest of you do, moving from person to person.

I'll try and work with you just please remember I am in rl someone who built a career on looking at the facts, weighing the evidence, and not doing anything hastily so this way of playing is not my normal style. Please don't make fun of me for it, I am trying my best to break out of it.

I say you do you, Juliets.

[vanity.]

i think i just need to step away from the game for a second and this should be... resolved.

sorry guys. be back in a bit