Inception [Inception Phase 4]

[iaafr]

i am relying on peoples memory here

[iaafr]

i cant quote the actual reason but

boo's flip had a confirmed civ

and spiny really clearly represented evenstar as her unambiguously strongest townread

top of the page

[mention]Evenstar[/mention]
[mention]Pawn Lelouch[/mention]
[mention]Epignosis[/mention]
[mention]Master Radishes[/mention]
[mention]Jackofhearts2005[/mention]

how many of you remember spiny's read on eva

[iaafr]

i find it highly suspicious that sprityo was willing to talk to pawn and jack but when i ask him an easy question he's suddenly afk for 16(!!) minutes

and i find it highly suspicious that he pretty much ignores my existence in his catchup and asks epi about something that isnt epi's main push on me

[iaafr]

this game is extremely surreal im starting to get into it more

[iaafr]

so maybe sprityo pawn and jack are all scum cuz sprityo has anxiety with actually engaging with town?

thats a theory.

[iaafr]

sprityo also just seems to have TMI that this definitely isnt syndicate vs non syndicate but in a scummy way

[iaafr]

tfw everyones scum except me and eva

[iaafr]

speculation votes are secret because scums votes dont matter

only towns votes matter

epignosis is trying to teach this to me for some reason

if we're back to bigbrain conspiracy maybe he even knows how the voting mech works as scum

[iaafr]

like im no under no illusion that i should take it for granted that votes work normally

maybe all town votes are even vig shots or some shit idk

how deep does the conspiracy run man

[sprityo]

i find it highly suspicious that sprityo was willing to talk to pawn and jack but when i ask him an easy question he's suddenly afk for 16(!!) minutes

and i find it highly suspicious that he pretty much ignores my existence in his catchup and asks epi about something that isnt epi's main push on me

pawn asked you and epi to leave

i assumed you would be gone soon?

i also like playing video games and checking back from time to time

[iaafr]

tfw everyones scum except me and eva

what if literally everybody is scum except me and eva and the whole test of the game is whether we kill each other in these layers

:bigbrain:

[iaafr]

thats now my official readslist

town:
iaafr
evenstar

scum:
everybody else

[iaafr]

@ColinIsCool (Rej) w
@Dom w
@Epignosis w
@Evenstar w
@iaafr v
@Jackofhearts2005 w
@Master Radishes v
@Pawn Lelouch v
@sprityo w

theres 3 town and 5 mafia and we gotta vig shot differnet ones with our powersecretvotes pew pew pew pew epw ewp

[iaafr]

wait 6 mafia

[iaafr]

oh wait no i marked evenstar as w for some reason 4v5 ok ok ok ok ok ok ok ok

[iaafr]

yeah idk syndicate vs non syndicate just makes more sense to me than anything lmfao its hard to unconvince myself

[iaafr]

{epignosis, dom, sprityo} is where i currently am for bottom 3

[Master Radishes]

Jfc what did I just spent 200 posts eading.

[iaafr]

ive solved hte game radishes

its still all the syndicate players

and their votes dont count

and we have to shoot them with our vote-vigs

[iaafr]

follow me to the promised land

[Master Radishes]

My conclusions:

I like Epi. I like his style of communication. I don't want to be on the other end of it.

His pressure on Rabbit was heavily predicated on EoD1 voting behaviour (gee, that sounds familiar) whereas I agree with Pawn that Rabbit's overall play has been very townie. To me, his macro play outweighs a poor voting decision. This could be re-evaluated if we knew, say, 112's alignment or Nova's (others connected to the D1 lynch in significant ways) but for now I agree with Pawn, as I find myself often doing, and consider Rabbit's play generally very clean.

Epi builds up some town equity with his case, although not in a way that auto-clears him, and I'd actually still rank Rabbit higher on my reads list than Epi. But he's moved up a lot and I admit he had me re-considering Rabbit for the first 50 posts of back-and-forth there. (Part of my hesitation also stems from someone in D1 mentioning Epi's strong track record as both alignments.)

I consider that a v/v interaction. Having never played a game with either before, I could very well be wrong.

[Master Radishes]

i cant quote the actual reason but

boo's flip had a confirmed civ

and spiny really clearly represented evenstar as her unambiguously strongest townread

top of the page

@Evenstar
@Pawn Lelouch
@Epignosis
@Master Radishes
@Jackofhearts2005

how many of you remember spiny's read on eva

(a) No I don't remember. There were 30 players and at least a 1/3 of us were TRing Evenstar, me included.

(b) I don't get your logic. Spinyboo = Town therefore her reads must be correct?

[iaafr]

did you not read the thread after eod

boo flipped a role that had an automatic green on another player

a night zero inno peek

[iaafr]

it happened immediately at eod, jjj posted the flip in the wrong thread, presumably the other group lynched boo

since he realized some people saw it, he posted it again after deleting it for awhile

[iaafr]

the information asymmetry caused by these mechanics is really weird man

[iaafr]

Here, I saved the wording of her flip:

"You are the subconscious aspect of conscientiousness.

You represent the mark’s steadfastness in the proper and thorough completion of tasks set before them.

You begin the game with the knowledge that REDACTED is an aspect of the subconscious and not an intruder.

REDACTED

You will win the game if all threats to the subconscious mind are eliminated."

[Master Radishes]

Consensus bottom 3 appear to be:

Jack, Dom, Colin


Jack - I've flip-flopped on him at least four times this game. I'm back to sort of liking his play this round. Or maybe he's just reading the game so differently I'm assuming TWTBW?
Dom - Could be scum, sure. My hesitation is that his tunnel was on...iaafr? Scum were never going to powerlynch him out last round. Why go there? (Or was that his plan to avoid scrutiny?)
Colin - Reads to me like a townie missing a lot of info trying to get into a game with unfamiliar players. Nothing yet has pinged me from his posts. Nothing has cleared him either, of course.


Of the three I like Colin's addition to the group the least - I think as it stands he's not my vote. Plenty of Day left though.

[Master Radishes]

did you not read the thread after eod

boo flipped a role that had an automatic green on another player

a night zero inno peek

Of course I saw it. What does that have to do with Evenstar? What did Spiny say that made you think it was her N0 green?

[iaafr]

did you not read the thread after eod

boo flipped a role that had an automatic green on another player

a night zero inno peek

Of course I saw it. What does that have to do with Evenstar? What did Spiny say that made you think it was her N0 green?

she said she was her top townread and it wasnt close pretty early on

she said every post of evenstars made her feel she was town

honestly this green peek isnt even that useful because evenstar is consensus town anyway but i wanna see if anybody else remembers

[Master Radishes]

My conclusions:

I like Epi. I like his style of communication. I don't want to be on the other end of it.

His pressure on Rabbit was heavily predicated on EoD1 voting behaviour (gee, that sounds familiar) whereas I agree with Pawn that Rabbit's overall play has been very townie. To me, his macro play outweighs a poor voting decision. This could be re-evaluated if we knew, say, 112's alignment or Nova's (others connected to the D1 lynch in significant ways) but for now I agree with Pawn, as I find myself often doing, and consider Rabbit's play generally very clean.

Epi builds up some town equity with his case, although not in a way that auto-clears him, and I'd actually still rank Rabbit higher on my reads list than Epi. But he's moved up a lot and I admit he had me re-considering Rabbit for the first 50 posts of back-and-forth there. (Part of my hesitation also stems from someone in D1 mentioning Epi's strong track record as both alignments.)

I consider that a v/v interaction. Having never played a game with either before, I could very well be wrong.

I should add I also really vibe with the source of iaafr's frustration. My game is 90% re-reading to look for wagon formations, vote patterns, and interactions. I don't really know how to play this right now.

[Master Radishes]

did you not read the thread after eod

boo flipped a role that had an automatic green on another player

a night zero inno peek

Of course I saw it. What does that have to do with Evenstar? What did Spiny say that made you think it was her N0 green?

she said she was her top townread and it wasnt close pretty early on

she said every post of evenstars made her feel she was town

honestly this green peek isnt even that useful because evenstar is consensus town anyway but i wanna see if anybody else remembers

I honestly don't remember, but I don't doubt it. Are you sure it was so strongly worded? I've seen you mis-remember the extent of things already this game. E.g. about me you got things broadly right but exaggerated what I had said/done.

I've not liked Evenstar's play lately at all. It feels nothing like her town games from MU that I spectated, nor even like her D1 in this game.

[iaafr]

my recollection is that it was pretty strongly worded im just wondering if anybody can corroborate it

[iaafr]

i mean i know for a fact im not the peek because spiny voiced concerns about me and i dont know who else would be the peek

i definitely remember her strongest townread being eva like 90% sure im not making this up lol

[iaafr]

maybe it wasnt pawn that she liked but it was nutella idk doesnt rly matter eva was the highest tr

[Pawn Lelouch]

i mean i know for a fact im not the peek because spiny voiced concerns about me and i dont know who else would be the peek

i definitely remember her strongest townread being eva like 90% sure im not making this up lol

I do remember her calling ES a townread. I will admit to not remember how much of one though.

[Pawn Lelouch]

but pawns evenkeeled and ppl are antagonizing maybe hteyre all town and its pawn and radishes lmfao I DONT KNOW THIS GAMES SO FUCKING WEIRD

Tbf I'm always evenkeeled in game unless someone pisses me off or I'm on a deep tunnel. And I tunnel sure, but not to that extent often.

[Pawn Lelouch]

im dropping bombshells like evenstar is lock mech town from boo's flip and literally nobody's quoting or reacting to it

what kind of a game is this

I don't think it's a mech thing technically, but it already appeals to my view so I just quietly accepted it while writing an essay and moved on.

[Pawn Lelouch]

Jfc what did I just spent 200 posts eading.

Magic.

[iaafr]

Here, I saved the wording of her flip:

"You are the subconscious aspect of conscientiousness.

You represent the mark’s steadfastness in the proper and thorough completion of tasks set before them.

You begin the game with the knowledge that REDACTED is an aspect of the subconscious and not an intruder.

REDACTED

You will win the game if all threats to the subconscious mind are eliminated."

how is this not mech what

[Pawn Lelouch]

My conclusions:

I like Epi. I like his style of communication. I don't want to be on the other end of it.

His pressure on Rabbit was heavily predicated on EoD1 voting behaviour (gee, that sounds familiar) whereas I agree with Pawn that Rabbit's overall play has been very townie. To me, his macro play outweighs a poor voting decision. This could be re-evaluated if we knew, say, 112's alignment or Nova's (others connected to the D1 lynch in significant ways) but for now I agree with Pawn, as I find myself often doing, and consider Rabbit's play generally very clean.

Epi builds up some town equity with his case, although not in a way that auto-clears him, and I'd actually still rank Rabbit higher on my reads list than Epi. But he's moved up a lot and I admit he had me re-considering Rabbit for the first 50 posts of back-and-forth there. (Part of my hesitation also stems from someone in D1 mentioning Epi's strong track record as both alignments.)

I consider that a v/v interaction. Having never played a game with either before, I could very well be wrong.

Liking this view for obvious reasons. And the adding of the Rabbit waver for a bit isn't something that is always the easiest thought to fake, makes this less likely to be a pocket attempt.

[Pawn Lelouch]

Here, I saved the wording of her flip:

"You are the subconscious aspect of conscientiousness.

You represent the mark’s steadfastness in the proper and thorough completion of tasks set before them.

You begin the game with the knowledge that REDACTED is an aspect of the subconscious and not an intruder.

REDACTED

You will win the game if all threats to the subconscious mind are eliminated."

how is this not mech what

...

I'm a moron, that wording does actually make sense for a peek. And you're presuming she just TMI'd ES hard since she could afford to? I could see that if we get confirmation as to how loudly Spiny yelled it. If only we could look back ;_;. Hopefully one of the others can answer the tag with a good memory.

[Pawn Lelouch]

Consensus bottom 3 appear to be:

Jack, Dom, Colin


Jack - I've flip-flopped on him at least four times this game. I'm back to sort of liking his play this round. Or maybe he's just reading the game so differently I'm assuming TWTBW?
Dom - Could be scum, sure. My hesitation is that his tunnel was on...iaafr? Scum were never going to powerlynch him out last round. Why go there? (Or was that his plan to avoid scrutiny?)
Colin - Reads to me like a townie missing a lot of info trying to get into a game with unfamiliar players. Nothing yet has pinged me from his posts. Nothing has cleared him either, of course.


Of the three I like Colin's addition to the group the least - I think as it stands he's not my vote. Plenty of Day left though.

So I'm guessing that you'd be replacing Colin with Sprit in your view? Or is it ES?

Since I know you've mentioned you think Rabbit, Epi, and myself are town and some distrust of ES.

[Master Radishes]

Consensus bottom 3 appear to be:

Jack, Dom, Colin


Jack - I've flip-flopped on him at least four times this game. I'm back to sort of liking his play this round. Or maybe he's just reading the game so differently I'm assuming TWTBW?
Dom - Could be scum, sure. My hesitation is that his tunnel was on...iaafr? Scum were never going to powerlynch him out last round. Why go there? (Or was that his plan to avoid scrutiny?)
Colin - Reads to me like a townie missing a lot of info trying to get into a game with unfamiliar players. Nothing yet has pinged me from his posts. Nothing has cleared him either, of course.


Of the three I like Colin's addition to the group the least - I think as it stands he's not my vote. Plenty of Day left though.

So I'm guessing that you'd be replacing Colin with Sprit in your view? Or is it ES?

Since I know you've mentioned you think Rabbit, Epi, and myself are town and some distrust of ES.

ES or Sprit. Not sure. If Rabbit is right I have to back off ES, but a Jack/Sprit/Dom trio feels a bit bleh to me. So does a Jack/Dom/Colin trio. Are we really saying none of the talkative players in this dream level are mafia? (Jack is talkative, but on a different plane from the rest of us in his reads, I feel.) Like, I know it's possible, but I'm naturally distrustful of clearing the high posters and keeping our (non-existent) wagons to low posters and the guy with different reads.

[Pawn Lelouch]

Consensus bottom 3 appear to be:

Jack, Dom, Colin


Jack - I've flip-flopped on him at least four times this game. I'm back to sort of liking his play this round. Or maybe he's just reading the game so differently I'm assuming TWTBW?
Dom - Could be scum, sure. My hesitation is that his tunnel was on...iaafr? Scum were never going to powerlynch him out last round. Why go there? (Or was that his plan to avoid scrutiny?)
Colin - Reads to me like a townie missing a lot of info trying to get into a game with unfamiliar players. Nothing yet has pinged me from his posts. Nothing has cleared him either, of course.


Of the three I like Colin's addition to the group the least - I think as it stands he's not my vote. Plenty of Day left though.

So I'm guessing that you'd be replacing Colin with Sprit in your view? Or is it ES?

Since I know you've mentioned you think Rabbit, Epi, and myself are town and some distrust of ES.

ES or Sprit. Not sure. If Rabbit is right I have to back off ES, but a Jack/Sprit/Dom trio feels a bit bleh to me. So does a Jack/Dom/Colin trio. Are we really saying none of the talkative players in this dream level are mafia? (Jack is talkative, but on a different plane from the rest of us in his reads, I feel.) Like, I know it's possible, but I'm naturally distrustful of clearing the high posters and keeping our (non-existent) wagons to low posters and the guy with different reads.

Like, we can't auto clear obviously but there is a pretty big difference in terms of susness and contributions. Like, we agree there is probably 2 mafia here, right? I don't think 2 have slipped through the net, at worst it's a 1:1 split in terms of mafia, with decent odds of 0:2 since everyone in the 5 group has done some amount of clearing play.

So at this point we should probably go for the relative guarantee and work through that. As time goes on, if things change then they change. But right now we don't really need hero plays and they're probably actively detrimental.

[Evenstar]

Here, I saved the wording of her flip:

"You are the subconscious aspect of conscientiousness.

You represent the mark’s steadfastness in the proper and thorough completion of tasks set before them.

You begin the game with the knowledge that REDACTED is an aspect of the subconscious and not an intruder.

REDACTED

You will win the game if all threats to the subconscious mind are eliminated."

how is this not mech what

...

I'm a moron, that wording does actually make sense for a peek. And you're presuming she just TMI'd ES hard since she could afford to? I could see that if we get confirmation as to how loudly Spiny yelled it. If only we could look back ;_;. Hopefully one of the others can answer the tag with a good memory.

I actually saved that post because I was wondering why Spiny was TRing me so strongly. Let me see if I can dig it up again.

[Evenstar]

And while I'm here at 4AM I would like to answer Epi's question:

Because that godfather play is exactly the kind of thing I would do as scum. It's a reasonable mistake ("godfathers are super powerful"in a game which makes them...
not), but it has far-reaching implications for gamestate because it lets you argue a different set of scum motivations. Assuming you're scum - and your push on Iaafr is really not winning you points in that category - you're using that to distort the gamestate and push faulty lynches.

In short, it smells like agenda and it's the kind of scumplay I would expect from someone of your apparent skill.

[mention]Pawn Lelouch[/mention] The iaafr push is bad. Like, really bad. Assume rabbit's town. Why might he have strong reason to not vote?

[Evenstar]

[mention]Epignosis[/mention]

also, if you have the list of potential roles saved from the D1 OP I'd appreciate you posting it 'cause I'm not sure if I have it in my notes

[Pawn Lelouch]

And while I'm here at 4AM I would like to answer Epi's question:

Because that godfather play is exactly the kind of thing I would do as scum. It's a reasonable mistake ("godfathers are super powerful"in a game which makes them...
not), but it has far-reaching implications for gamestate because it lets you argue a different set of scum motivations. Assuming you're scum - and your push on Iaafr is really not winning you points in that category - you're using that to distort the gamestate and push faulty lynches.

In short, it smells like agenda and it's the kind of scumplay I would expect from someone of your apparent skill.

@Pawn Lelouch The iaafr push is bad. Like, really bad. Assume rabbit's town. Why might he have strong reason to not vote?

Bluntly iaafr himself already answered that earlier today and I concurred with him publicly since it's a play I would do. Assume the Drago lynch goes through and no lynch to make that more likely by removing a 112 vote while still looking on the surface suspicious. That suspicious EOD means you never die that night and there's enough self confidence in skill that you can talk your way off a lynch.

[Evenstar]

never mind I had it

D1 OP "these roles exist somehow" list:

TOWN:
Cop - alignment checker
Tracker - learns who a player targeted
Watcher - learns who targeted a player
Doctor - prevents fatal actions
Independent Cop - alignment checker, 3rd party exclusive
Commuter - can evade night actions
Mason - two or more players know each other to be innocent
Doublevoter - vote worth double
Redirector - changes target's target to new player
Vigilante - killer
Jailkeeper - protects target from actions and blocks target from performing actions
Vanilla - no special abilities

SCUM:
Janitor - can obscure the role of a night kill
Role Cop - learn target's role in basic terms
Godfather - appears innocent to alignment checker
Strongman - bypasses kill protections
Rolebocker - prevents target's role from functioning
Vanilla - no special abilities

3P:
3rd party independent

so a couple things on review:
1: There is absolutely at least one 3p in this game, probably Mal
2: There is no Emissary afaict, so Spiny was def. a Mason
3: Scumteam has a Janitor 100%. Not sure if this makes me more or less sus of Pawn. I think I'm going with "less" right now.
4: colin needs examining

[Evenstar]

And while I'm here at 4AM I would like to answer Epi's question:

Because that godfather play is exactly the kind of thing I would do as scum. It's a reasonable mistake ("godfathers are super powerful"in a game which makes them...
not), but it has far-reaching implications for gamestate because it lets you argue a different set of scum motivations. Assuming you're scum - and your push on Iaafr is really not winning you points in that category - you're using that to distort the gamestate and push faulty lynches.

In short, it smells like agenda and it's the kind of scumplay I would expect from someone of your apparent skill.

@Pawn Lelouch The iaafr push is bad. Like, really bad. Assume rabbit's town. Why might he have strong reason to not vote?

Bluntly iaafr himself already answered that earlier today and I concurred with him publicly since it's a play I would do. Assume the Drago lynch goes through and no lynch to make that more likely by removing a 112 vote while still looking on the surface suspicious. That suspicious EOD means you never die that night and there's enough self confidence in skill that you can talk your way off a lynch.

Yeah, I absolutely buy survival as his motivation.