Inception [Inception Phase 4]

[Evenstar]

@Epignosis actually I think you ahould have this in your case notes from yesterday IIRC, but here's Spiny's post again:

"ok if i'm gonna start posting from the point I'm caught up at, these were my ~vibes~

anyway Eva is town. and not JUST because her savagery in response to Drago's flirting attempts was the most beautiful effortless thing she's ever done. (more because of her responses to iaafr and 112). Her read that Drago continuing that flirting so long was trying to force conversation, thus scummy, was not one that would've occurred to me, but ig she could be right there.

I do not understand where iaafr's "always town" read of 112 started or came from or what the vibe is that he likes, even though he has since made posts explaining it. i like other posts of iaafr and his overall tone, but that whole read is so ???? to me.

lol at Mac saying he's policy never-lynching me and then immediately asking other people to build a case on me stuck_out_tongue that and some overly defensive early posts / questioning things I thought were obvious had me side-eyeing him. but i liked his later posts. will see how he engages with Eva.

I do vibe with IAAFR saying that there's too much "hey i like this guy" and "this guy can be town" going on. from loose recollection Hyena and Epi felt like offenders there. Hyena maybe felt less sincere? this is loose memory."

I'm not going to speak to mechanics regarding the first point at all, because claim rules, but I do think this strong read from a confirmed townie is worth considering. Please don't turn your brain off and take this as a 100% mech clear though, use your best judgment.

As for the second point, it's clearly shading Iaafr for what she considers a bad mason hint because she knows she's a mason.

Wish Mac was here to yell at about the third point.

Fourth point is absolutely getting factored into my Epi and Iaafr reads.

[Evenstar]

[mention]Epignosis[/mention]

[Evenstar]

and now I am going back to fucking bed

[Pawn Lelouch]

and now I am going back to fucking bed

Sleep. Being up this late isn't healthy.

(Ignoring own advice as usual).

[Master Radishes]

Okay, barring re-gained access to the original thread and the posts contained within, I formally rescind my suspicion of Evenstar. I don't know if Spiny was indeed implying a mason read there - I don't have much experience reading for breadcrumbs and none dealing with game mechanics that bar claim discussion - but it's definitely the closest thing to it in Spiny's post.

Top 3: MR, Evenstar, Iaafr
Top +2: Pawn, Epi

Bottom 4: Colin, Jack, Dom, Sprit

[Master Radishes]

Also someone referenced Kawhi earlier, so:



We the North.

[Epignosis]

Just so everyone knows, "mentioning" me with the @ symbol three times in the middle of the night when I'm sleeping will have little hope of capturing my attention. I read everything in order anyway, so there's no point in it at all.

[sprityo]

Jfc what did I just spent 200 posts eading.

^^^^^^^^^^^

[sprityo]

Hey epi, you want to do some spitballing since we're both here?

[sprityo]

Im hesitant to call spiny's post a clear because we dont hve a way to cross examine anyone who called Evenstar town (without changing their mind). Otherwise i might entertain it better.

[sprityo]

never mind I had it

D1 OP "these roles exist somehow" list:

TOWN:
Cop - alignment checker
Tracker - learns who a player targeted
Watcher - learns who targeted a player
Doctor - prevents fatal actions
Independent Cop - alignment checker, 3rd party exclusive
Commuter - can evade night actions
Mason - two or more players know each other to be innocent
Doublevoter - vote worth double
Redirector - changes target's target to new player
Vigilante - killer
Jailkeeper - protects target from actions and blocks target from performing actions
Vanilla - no special abilities

SCUM:
Janitor - can obscure the role of a night kill
Role Cop - learn target's role in basic terms
Godfather - appears innocent to alignment checker
Strongman - bypasses kill protections
Rolebocker - prevents target's role from functioning
Vanilla - no special abilities

3P:
3rd party independent

so a couple things on review:
1: There is absolutely at least one 3p in this game, probably Mal
2: There is no Emissary afaict, so Spiny was def. a Mason
3: Scumteam has a Janitor 100%. Not sure if this makes me more or less sus of Pawn. I think I'm going with "less" right now.
4: colin needs examining

wasn't it mentioned in the OP as well that these are not ALL the roles? or something to that effect?

[Evenstar]

Im hesitant to call spiny's post a clear because we dont hve a way to cross examine anyone who called Evenstar town (without changing their mind). Otherwise i might entertain it better.

I think this position is very wise.

[Evenstar]

never mind I had it

D1 OP "these roles exist somehow" list:

TOWN:
Cop - alignment checker
Tracker - learns who a player targeted
Watcher - learns who targeted a player
Doctor - prevents fatal actions
Independent Cop - alignment checker, 3rd party exclusive
Commuter - can evade night actions
Mason - two or more players know each other to be innocent
Doublevoter - vote worth double
Redirector - changes target's target to new player
Vigilante - killer
Jailkeeper - protects target from actions and blocks target from performing actions
Vanilla - no special abilities

SCUM:
Janitor - can obscure the role of a night kill
Role Cop - learn target's role in basic terms
Godfather - appears innocent to alignment checker
Strongman - bypasses kill protections
Rolebocker - prevents target's role from functioning
Vanilla - no special abilities

3P:
3rd party independent

so a couple things on review:
1: There is absolutely at least one 3p in this game, probably Mal
2: There is no Emissary afaict, so Spiny was def. a Mason
3: Scumteam has a Janitor 100%. Not sure if this makes me more or less sus of Pawn. I think I'm going with "less" right now.
4: colin needs examining

wasn't it mentioned in the OP as well that these are not ALL the roles? or something to that effect?

- yeah, it did mention that, I quoted that on D1 in a post somewhere but now I've forgotten the exact wording

something something "variants and other roles not on this list may exist, it's not comprehensive"?

so I guess Emissary is possible under the category of "mason variant"

ergh

[Epignosis]

Hey epi, you want to do some spitballing since we're both here?

I am not here until after 1pm EST. I have football to prep for this morning.

[Evenstar]

Just so everyone knows, "mentioning" me with the @ symbol three times in the middle of the night when I'm sleeping will have little hope of capturing my attention. I read everything in order anyway, so there's no point in it at all.

If you read it all, why does this post not contain an answer to my second question?

Sorry if I disturbed your sleep with pleasant little alert dings though, that's never fun

[Epignosis]

Just so everyone knows, "mentioning" me with the @ symbol three times in the middle of the night when I'm sleeping will have little hope of capturing my attention. I read everything in order anyway, so there's no point in it at all.

If you read it all, why does this post not contain an answer to my second question?

Sorry if I disturbed your sleep with pleasant little alert dings though, that's never fun

I have not read your question. I only saw three people mentioned me in the middle of the night and wanted to point out the futility of it (saves people an extra step when writing their posts!). I'll be reading this afternoon after my football research is complete.

And no apology necessary, for I am old and know not what an alert ding is.

[Jackofhearts2005]

all scum players are syndicate

...

im town and im baffled you cant see it

[Jackofhearts2005]

but pawns evenkeeled and ppl are antagonizing maybe hteyre all town and its pawn and radishes lmfao I DONT KNOW THIS GAMES SO FUCKING WEIRD

Lol much better.

[ColinIsCool]

i am forced into wanting to vote the least transparent players who want to kill me

{jack, dom, colin}

everybody else can live

sprityo wanted to kill me out of spite so he can live

In what way do you think I’m not transparent? Keep seeing you say that, but it means nothing.

[Evenstar]

I actually dreamt that I was playing mafia tonight

clearly this game is getting into my brain

so having double checked the thread, I see I have not, in fact, posted that tomorrow is very very likely special somehow

because
30/16/9/5 players

with approximately
8/4/2/1 scum

not to mention there were three dream layers and then Limbo in the movie, and the fact that the new OP says "We're getting closer. Maybe an idea can be planted here?"

And returning to my earlier point: given that tomorrow is very likely a Final Five situation, we need to solve Epignosis now. I don't want anyone tinfoiling on them if they end up in the final(?) dream level.

[Jackofhearts2005]

im dropping bombshells like evenstar is lock mech town from boo's flip and literally nobody's quoting or reacting to it

what kind of a game is this

[ColinIsCool]

As of pg 5 I am comfortable locking in Epignosis as town. I don’t think he goes after iaafr that thoroughly just for kicks.

[Evenstar]

As of pg 5 I am comfortable locking in Epignosis as town. I don’t think he goes after iaafr that thoroughly just for kicks.

That is in fact the series of posts that is most making me doubt right now, because I feel it was pursued long after it stopped being useful

it felt performative, not investigative

[Jackofhearts2005]

i cant quote the actual reason but

boo's flip had a confirmed civ

and spiny really clearly represented evenstar as her unambiguously strongest townread

Oh wait nm. Yeah mech town then.

[Jackofhearts2005]

i cant quote the actual reason but

boo's flip had a confirmed civ

and spiny really clearly represented evenstar as her unambiguously strongest townread

top of the page

@Evenstar
@Pawn Lelouch
@Epignosis
@Master Radishes
@Jackofhearts2005

how many of you remember spiny's read on eva

Lol I do not.

[Jackofhearts2005]

this game is extremely surreal im starting to get into it more

I mean, what do you expect? You’re still dreaming.

[Jackofhearts2005]

i find it highly suspicious that sprityo was willing to talk to pawn and jack but when i ask him an easy question he's suddenly afk for 16(!!) minutes

and i find it highly suspicious that he pretty much ignores my existence in his catchup and asks epi about something that isnt epi's main push on me

pawn asked you and epi to leave

i assumed you would be gone soon?

i also like playing video games and checking back from time to time

Hmm. Was it anime or video games?

[ColinIsCool]

As of pg 5 I am comfortable locking in Epignosis as town. I don’t think he goes after iaafr that thoroughly just for kicks.

That is in fact the series of posts that is most making me doubt right now, because I feel it was pursued long after it stopped being useful

it felt performative, not investigative

Others from TS can chime in but I just don’t see it. He would have relented and not chased it as far because he wouldn’t need to.

[Jackofhearts2005]

@ColinIsCool (Rej) w
@Dom w
@Epignosis w
@Evenstar w
@iaafr v
@Jackofhearts2005 w
@Master Radishes v
@Pawn Lelouch v
@sprityo w

theres 3 town and 5 mafia and we gotta vig shot differnet ones with our powersecretvotes pew pew pew pew epw ewp

My three are Pawn, Radishes, Iaafr

[ColinIsCool]

Feels like a lot of people are suspecting me for whatever this Rej guy did and my position of not being able to defend against it makes me an easy place to plop suspicion on since I can’t win that argument

[ColinIsCool]

What if instead of all the Syndicate players being the mafia ... all the other players are the mafia ?!?

[ColinIsCool]

I have a tinfoil suspicion that at least one of Pawn or Radishes are scum, mainly because I townread them both so easily. Discuss.

[Evenstar]

What if instead of all the Syndicate players being the mafia ... all the other players are the mafia ?!?

You're never going to convince me on Rabbit now. Talk to me about Radishes and Pawn though.

[ColinIsCool]

Jack, Epi, sprit: what do you think of Dom’s play so far? I have been waffling and never played him enough to get a good handle anyway.

[Evenstar]

I have a tinfoil suspicion that at least one of Pawn or Radishes are scum, mainly because I townread them both so easily. Discuss.

... maybe you're town??

Give me better reasons than tinfoil though.

[ColinIsCool]

What if instead of all the Syndicate players being the mafia ... all the other players are the mafia ?!?

You're never going to convince me on Rabbit now. Talk to me about Radishes and Pawn though.

I don’t really have an actionable claim against them, other than I am routinely fooled by helpful players at least once a game so I always have to (resist the urge to?) tinfoil and doubt myself. The greatest opponent in Mafia is not the other team but rather your own brain.

[Master Radishes]

Im hesitant to call spiny's post a clear because we dont hve a way to cross examine anyone who called Evenstar town (without changing their mind). Otherwise i might entertain it better.

Agree, it's not a clear. But it's good enough for me to back off my suspicion considering Spinyboo's flip. We can revisit the idea if and when we end up back in the original thread with others, or however the mechanics of it work.

[Master Radishes]

I have a tinfoil suspicion that at least one of Pawn or Radishes are scum, mainly because I townread them both so easily. Discuss.

Pawn is my deepwolf pick for that reason. I like pretty much everything he says. It's mildly worrying.

[Jackofhearts2005]

And while I'm here at 4AM I would like to answer Epi's question:

Because that godfather play is exactly the kind of thing I would do as scum. It's a reasonable mistake ("godfathers are super powerful"in a game which makes them...
not), but it has far-reaching implications for gamestate because it lets you argue a different set of scum motivations. Assuming you're scum - and your push on Iaafr is really not winning you points in that category - you're using that to distort the gamestate and push faulty lynches.

In short, it smells like agenda and it's the kind of scumplay I would expect from someone of your apparent skill.

@Pawn Lelouch The iaafr push is bad. Like, really bad. Assume rabbit's town. Why might he have strong reason to not vote?

Because he dies if he votes.

I mean, clearly some bastard stuff in this game.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Jack, Epi, sprit: what do you think of Dom’s play so far? I have been waffling and never played him enough to get a good handle anyway.

I don’t. He’s barely playing.

I’ve also played with town!Dom like 10 times and wolf!Dom never so I don’t actually know how to read the guy.

[Master Radishes]

@ColinIsCool (Rej) w
@Dom w
@Epignosis w
@Evenstar w
@iaafr v
@Jackofhearts2005 w
@Master Radishes v
@Pawn Lelouch v
@sprityo w

theres 3 town and 5 mafia and we gotta vig shot differnet ones with our powersecretvotes pew pew pew pew epw ewp

My three are Pawn, Radishes, Iaafr

Jack, your reads are so different from everyone's. That in itself is fine, but I also feel they're not progressing - isn't this the same three you had yesterday?

(a) Why Pawn?
(b) Why me?
(c) Why Rabbit?

If you've said I genuinely don't remember.

[sprityo]

Jack, Epi, sprit: what do you think of Dom’s play so far? I have been waffling and never played him enough to get a good handle anyway.

I’m confident dom is his normal dom self and believe he is town

Albeit the hard part about playing with Dom is making him show up.

[sprityo]

What if instead of all the Syndicate players being the mafia ... all the other players are the mafia ?!?

You're never going to convince me on Rabbit now. Talk to me about Radishes and Pawn though.

I don’t really have an actionable claim against them, other than I am routinely fooled by helpful players at least once a game so I always have to (resist the urge to?) tinfoil and doubt myself. The greatest opponent in Mafia is not the other team but rather your own brain.

9/10 I don’t second guess myself unless someone else or myself finds an obvious and legitimate point to do so

[Master Radishes]

Jack, Epi, sprit: what do you think of Dom’s play so far? I have been waffling and never played him enough to get a good handle anyway.

I’m confident dom is his normal dom self and believe he is town

Albeit the hard part about playing with Dom is making him show up.

Why are you confident?

How many times have you seen scum!Dom? Are you reliable meta-reading him?

If he's not going to show up then we need to try to resolve his likely alignment through discussion about him.

[Master Radishes]

I really feel like the mafia in this level are doing their best to stay low so as not to provoke unwanted attention. We're already in the dark about a lot and they'll want to keep it that way.

I'm 50/50 at best at reading people through real time interactions, but if that's what we have then we need to do more of it.

[Dom]

So "kicked from this dream level" is not dead?

i think it might not be. Maybe you go back up a level in the threads etc.

Oh great. So even less info.

I guess we just play this like a 9-player game with shall we say 2 mafia?

It's kind of impossible not carry forward prior reads, but without info from flips what else can we do?

you're so bad.

My opening three are ColinisCool, iaafr, JackofHearts2005.

what about radishes?

[Jackofhearts2005]

@ColinIsCool (Rej) w
@Dom w
@Epignosis w
@Evenstar w
@iaafr v
@Jackofhearts2005 w
@Master Radishes v
@Pawn Lelouch v
@sprityo w

theres 3 town and 5 mafia and we gotta vig shot differnet ones with our powersecretvotes pew pew pew pew epw ewp

My three are Pawn, Radishes, Iaafr

Jack, your reads are so different from everyone's. That in itself is fine, but I also feel they're not progressing - isn't this the same three you had yesterday?

(a) Why Pawn?
(b) Why me?
(c) Why Rabbit?

If you've said I genuinely don't remember.

I’ve said like a dozen times.

A) Pawn because his reads are too easy. Suspect the quiet players. Suspect who Iaafr and Radishes are pushing. I don’t think he’s likely scum with you and Iaafr since he feels like a wolf satisfied to sheep wrong reads, not a wolf trying to power through.

B) Because I strongly townread Epi for his interactives yesterday and you came in and pooped all over them. Then LLD and Pawn basically agreed (which is not a good look for them but again, makes ya’ll not looked teamed, at least not all 3 of you). You also put forth a weasel worded attack on Eva. Don’t remember the details, just that you accused her of “chaos posting” when she was saying things I found reasonable.

C) His scumreads don’t make any sense from a town perspective. He’s spending so much time complaining about mechanics and spreading conspiracies that it feels wolfy. I have no idea why I appear to be the lone voice of reason here.

[Dom]

The read I feel strongest about in my 3 was iaafr, I think. Felt like they were posting a lot but too much noise, not content or hunting. So tell me why I'm wrong.

One, he honestly isn't low content. Once you look past the jokes and at the intent he couples with them, he's honestly fairly solid looking. And this to ane xtent feels like a style thing, wherein this feels like town iaafr to me fairly well.

you and nutella have both said this.
I really don't see it, but i think radishes is probs more likely to be bad.

[Dom]

The read I feel strongest about in my 3 was iaafr, I think. Felt like they were posting a lot but too much noise, not content or hunting. So tell me why I'm wrong.

One, he honestly isn't low content. Once you look past the jokes and at the intent he couples with them, he's honestly fairly solid looking. And this to ane xtent feels like a style thing, wherein this feels like town iaafr to me fairly well.

you and nutella have both said this.
I really don't see it, but i think radishes is probs more likely to be bad.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Generally anyone who was like “I strongly suspect Dom and Colin/Rej” sets off warning bells because those players barely said anything.

I asked for reasons for those suspicions and got one semi satisfactory answer from one out of the six or so players at the time who had those reads.

Several players going from “I suspect Nova/Colin/Dom for undisclosed or tinfoily reasons” to “I suspect Colin/Dom/Jack for undisclosed or tinfoily reasons” doesn’t make me want to flip my reads. Neither does a few “I guess Jack can be town for undisclosed reasons. Now I suspect yet another quiet Syndicate player in Sprityo.”