Inception [Inception Phase 4]

[Dom]

I don't trust eva at all.

[Pawn Lelouch]

I don't trust eva at all.

Second highest town read ftw.

[Dom]

I don't get why. It seems like y'all just townread each other tbh

[iaafr]

shes mech clear to me from boo's flip which had a confirmed town in it and i recall spiny top towning eva day 1

and her process is also extremely towny on a lot of levels

[iaafr]

Here, I saved the wording of her flip:

"You are the subconscious aspect of conscientiousness.

You represent the mark’s steadfastness in the proper and thorough completion of tasks set before them.

You begin the game with the knowledge that REDACTED is an aspect of the subconscious and not an intruder.

REDACTED

You will win the game if all threats to the subconscious mind are eliminated."

quoting this once again

this was boo's flip

boo was spiny's slot

spiny began the game with knowledge that a player was town aligned

spiny hard townread eva d1

[Dom]

I don't get the mechanical clear at all.

And I don't love how she very obviously either did not think her logic through or didn't care when clearing you.

[Dom]

Here, I saved the wording of her flip:

"You are the subconscious aspect of conscientiousness.

You represent the mark’s steadfastness in the proper and thorough completion of tasks set before them.

You begin the game with the knowledge that REDACTED is an aspect of the subconscious and not an intruder.

REDACTED

You will win the game if all threats to the subconscious mind are eliminated."

quoting this once again

this was boo's flip

boo was spiny's slot

spiny began the game with knowledge that a player was town aligned

spiny hard townread eva d1

That's a point in her favor, but I wouldn't say conclusive.

[Dom]

Alright I must sleep.

[iaafr]

gn

[sprityo]

what was that text wall dom?

[iaafr]

im trusting the eva clear because its the only thing that makes complete sense to me in this game and if that somehow loses me the game then oh well

[Master Radishes]

I don't trust eva at all.

Thank you. Me neither.

But the spiny 'clear' post is good enough for me to not put her in my PoE for today, as it's the closest we have to a potential clear. And anyway, I needed to get out of my tunnel and focus on everyone else for a change.

[iaafr]

Lol Dom would you be mad if I said “all of them?”

lol only a little

what are doms reads again

Are you asking for a bottom three or an everyone list?

everyone if youve got the energy

I generally don't do that-- not quite my style.

But in good faith because I'm trying to understand you and what not, I'll play along. (It's mostly because there's only like 9 of us)

ColinIsCool - I don't see a reason to suspect or not to suspect. Wish he posted and engaged more.
Dom - best person. supatown
Epignosis - I'd lean town.
Evenstar - I think it's pretty egregious that she missed a huge flaw in the mechanical reason why she thinks you're town. It's either a big oof or a big bad.
iaafr - I think you're pretty scummy. I think we've detailed that.
Jackofhearts2005 - I'd lean bad, but I'm liking what I'm seeing in the past few hours.
Master Radishes - Fell off my radar today. Don't like that.
Pawn Lelouch - I can't get a read on the guy.
sprityo - yucky

just got around to reading this readslist in more detail and

not a fan i dont think still, and not just because of me being one of the main scumreads still

hate the thing on evenstar it just reads as a nitpick that feels like a gotcha but isnt in the slightest

[iaafr]

{dom epig radishes} still works i guess if we're going for scum who dont like to shade partners much

[Master Radishes]

whats reason for your unaligned read on pawn/radishes

i know mine and idk whether to trust it

Jackofhearts2005

this question was for you

you mentioned you think pawn tmi'd radishes town?

where?

He’s basically copy pasted all his reads from you and Radish.

I may not be about to back this up without going back to D2 but I’m not seeing independent thought from Pawn.

I posted most of my reads before Radish did though? If anyone of us 3 are doing that it's him.

Like, you can argue that a lot of my reads are similar to iaafr's and you'd be right since a fair few people are town core in my mind and there's at least one or more unnamed players who deserves to be at the bottom. So there isn't exactly much wiggle room in terms of reads + placements that would be genuine. Especially once you factor in MR largely agreeing with everything I say, but saying it after.

Uh, excuse me, I must disagree. There were times I agreed with you, yes, but there were also times I said things first. (And also times I disagreed.)

And no, without access to the old thread I don't have specific examples.


I think regardless of alignment we read the game of Mafia in a similar way, so our reads are overlapping.

[Master Radishes]

{dom epig radishes} still works i guess if we're going for scum who dont like to shade partners much

I just read four or five pages of posts with you constantly putting me in your bottom three, and I must have missed why?

[Pawn Lelouch]

whats reason for your unaligned read on pawn/radishes

i know mine and idk whether to trust it

Jackofhearts2005

this question was for you

you mentioned you think pawn tmi'd radishes town?

where?

He’s basically copy pasted all his reads from you and Radish.

I may not be about to back this up without going back to D2 but I’m not seeing independent thought from Pawn.

I posted most of my reads before Radish did though? If anyone of us 3 are doing that it's him.

Like, you can argue that a lot of my reads are similar to iaafr's and you'd be right since a fair few people are town core in my mind and there's at least one or more unnamed players who deserves to be at the bottom. So there isn't exactly much wiggle room in terms of reads + placements that would be genuine. Especially once you factor in MR largely agreeing with everything I say, but saying it after.

Uh, excuse me, I must disagree. There were times I agreed with you, yes, but there were also times I said things first. (And also times I disagreed.)

And no, without access to the old thread I don't have specific examples.


I think regardless of alignment we read the game of Mafia in a similar way, so our reads are overlapping.

I hate that I can't go back to truly check it.

And yeah, that probably helps inform some of my main townreads. Since for example with iiafr and Eva I know that we have similar ways of viewing the game from experience, even if the actual methods to get to that point are wildly different.

[iaafr]

{dom epig radishes} still works i guess if we're going for scum who dont like to shade partners much

I just read four or five pages of posts with you constantly putting me in your bottom three, and I must have missed why?

i still sussed you n1 while i reread the thread and reread your d1 iso and i didnt like your push on evenstar d2. maybe i overstated the godfather logic, but overall your eod analysis still felt like an agendaed way to push a town player in my eyes.

from d1 in particular, i didnt remember much of a progression on dragomir leading up to the vote, and i remember that bothering me. i remember some other stuff bothering me about your d1 too, but i dont remember what now

i remember you responding to that in d2 with some logic of why you didnt want to vote 112, but idk its not a defense i could ever clear you on

if im to townread jack i have to believe he has to be right at least one thing this day, and its going to be either you or pawn and now im trying to evaluate which i can fit better

[iaafr]

i know that last part isnt logically true but

like

thats kind of how my logic worked for starting to explore pawn and you worlds

if im the pocketed its gotta be one of you two pocketing me and i need to evaluate these worlds

[JaggedJimmyJay]

New deadline timer, updated in the first post

[Master Radishes]

{dom epig radishes} still works i guess if we're going for scum who dont like to shade partners much

I just read four or five pages of posts with you constantly putting me in your bottom three, and I must have missed why?

i still sussed you n1 while i reread the thread and reread your d1 iso and i didnt like your push on evenstar d2. maybe i overstated the godfather logic, but overall your eod analysis still felt like an agendaed way to push a town player in my eyes.

from d1 in particular, i didnt remember much of a progression on dragomir leading up to the vote, and i remember that bothering me. i remember some other stuff bothering me about your d1 too, but i dont remember what now

i remember you responding to that in d2 with some logic of why you didnt want to vote 112, but idk its not a defense i could ever clear you on

if im to townread jack i have to believe he has to be right at least one thing this day, and its going to be either you or pawn and now im trying to evaluate which i can fit better

Thank you. Much more comprehensive than I was expecting.

D1 ISO - sure, I mean, it's D1, what do you expect? Lots of townies look bad on D1 in retrospect.
Drago - I hadn't read Drago at all; of the 30 players he was not someone I focused on, so I went by who I liked on each wagon and on my meta of 112
EoD analysis - if you want to see it that way there's not much I can do about it, but the agenda was 'look for scum votes' and I maintain I found some
D2 Eva - honestly, if she is town as you purportedly clear her to be, I have notes for her after the game
The Jack point is silly but I see you've already recognised that

[iaafr]

yeah wish we knew if nova was scum

i like this response though so thank you

[Master Radishes]

I'm never anyone's stongest town or scum read, and am constantly in the mushy middle or included in a bottom 3 as an extra. I think I just clocked why: I'm the wildcard. Pawn/Eva/Rabbit all know each other, and the Syndicaters all know each other, and none of you have ever played with me. It was basically the same last round, with only 112 who knew me.

Normally I'm good at clearing myself within a couple phases but my game is 95% re-reading votes, wagons, interactions, etc. I can't clear myself, and no one has any meta on me. So I get mild sus for posts you find mildly sussy because you're naturally misreading me as you get to know me.

I actually feel better now that I've realised this.

[Pawn Lelouch]

I'm never anyone's stongest town or scum read, and am constantly in the mushy middle or included in a bottom 3 as an extra. I think I just clocked why: I'm the wildcard. Pawn/Eva/Rabbit all know each other, and the Syndicaters all know each other, and none of you have ever played with me. It was basically the same last round, with only 112 who knew me.

Normally I'm good at clearing myself within a couple phases but my game is 95% re-reading votes, wagons, interactions, etc. I can't clear myself, and no one has any meta on me. So I get mild sus for posts you find mildly sussy because you're naturally misreading me as you get to know me.

I actually feel better now that I've realised this.

And I assume that you're thinking that it's essentially cliques forming up that is causing some of the lashing out, as a add-on of a natural distrust borne on by the type of game?

And yeah, this style of game fucks with a lot of more analytical playstyles by a fair margin. I've been trying to adapt by playing a bit more of a gut read game. And while I think my reads are solid, it's fascinating how this dichotomy has the group of players who know my playstyle already swapping between town coring me and calling me out as double pocketing.

[iaafr]

things i like about radishes:

he's consistent about prioritizing eod behavior in analysis strongly and recognizing that in others (his read on epi)
i like the beginning of his iso this game day, lots of perspective melding though i didnt agree with his early list that strongly, but i like that i'm his strongest townread... maybe? maybe i shouldnt like that

things i dont like about radishes:

kinda fits with dom and epi if thats a world
earlier stuff from previous days i cant remember or check

[iaafr]

radishes may be my favorite root vegetable

[iaafr]

also i just remembered i actually liked radishes mid d1 for quite awhile before becoming paranoid he was pocketing me and being too reasonable

so a similar process to today lol

[Pawn Lelouch]

also i just remembered i actually liked radishes mid d1 for quite awhile before becoming paranoid he was pocketing me and being too reasonable

so a similar process to today lol

Remember townies are panicky and unsure. Never too confident or calm. Confidence and calmness are clear scum traits, especially in regards to reads. Now who does those scum traits describe? :v

[iaafr]

you tell me man

[iaafr]

god arteezy stream is such a trip man

[iaafr]

if youre scumclaiming at me then i like it town ponits for you pawn

[Pawn Lelouch]

you tell me man

Was making a joke about myself having a naturally scummy mindset. Thought I had implied it well enough with how I had worded it. Need to work more on textual comedy then.

[iaafr]

bruh i hope the deepest inception layer doesnt like

have the whole game riding on it

thatd feel pretty bad if i lost this whole game somehow

[Pawn Lelouch]

bruh i hope the deepest inception layer doesnt like

have the whole game riding on it

thatd feel pretty bad if i lost this whole game somehow

Honestly that feels kinda cheap for that option. Since that means any play that's still going on the upper levels is pointless. And if there isn't anyone else on the floors and they all got modkilled due to not moving on? Well that's worse. So I assume there kinda has to be people still playing on other floors.

[iaafr]

yeah i dont think its actually possible either but by the flavor i feel like the deepest layer has to be extra influential somehow

[Master Radishes]

I'm never anyone's stongest town or scum read, and am constantly in the mushy middle or included in a bottom 3 as an extra. I think I just clocked why: I'm the wildcard. Pawn/Eva/Rabbit all know each other, and the Syndicaters all know each other, and none of you have ever played with me. It was basically the same last round, with only 112 who knew me.

Normally I'm good at clearing myself within a couple phases but my game is 95% re-reading votes, wagons, interactions, etc. I can't clear myself, and no one has any meta on me. So I get mild sus for posts you find mildly sussy because you're naturally misreading me as you get to know me.

I actually feel better now that I've realised this.

And I assume that you're thinking that it's essentially cliques forming up that is causing some of the lashing out, as a add-on of a natural distrust borne on by the type of game?

And yeah, this style of game fucks with a lot of more analytical playstyles by a fair margin. I've been trying to adapt by playing a bit more of a gut read game. And while I think my reads are solid, it's fascinating how this dichotomy has the group of players who know my playstyle already swapping between town coring me and calling me out as double pocketing.

I wouldn't say the familiarity divide is causing the fights, but it's a factor, definitely. Also now that the Syndicates are posting more frequently it's helping bridge some of it, for me at least.

[Master Radishes]

you tell me man

Was making a joke about myself having a naturally scummy mindset. Thought I had implied it well enough with how I had worded it. Need to work more on textual comedy then.

I got it. Just switched to phone as I commute so only got to responding now.

[iaafr]

radishes any notably updated thoughts on dom, jack, sprityo, and epi's most recent posting

[iaafr]

question mark

[iaafr]

[mention]Pawn Lelouch[/mention] you too, uptrends downtrends?

is it still epi dom sprityo for you?

[Master Radishes]

radishes any notably updated thoughts on dom, jack, sprityo, and epi's most recent posting

Not sure how notable.

Dom - abrasive, tunnely, dare I say dickish...but I'm beginning to spot actual consideration in his posts. He reads more to me as a townie entering late and trying to make a mark than a wolf with an agenda.

Jack - idfk, I switch my read constantly. He had a moment in D1 I liked, a vote I didn't, general play D2 I didn't, and general play today I do.

Sprityo - I like his posts when I read for the first time. I did an ISO yesterday for interaction with Dom and actually liked his posts less. They felt too calculated in how he handled Dom, like he was pretending to take the high road buy actually wanted to keep provoking. Haven't ISOed recent posts.

Epi - I like the more I see. Insightful. Possible deepwolf but do not forsee voting there today.

[iaafr]

can you quote the strongest bits of insight from epi

[Pawn Lelouch]

@Pawn Lelouch you too, uptrends downtrends?

is it still epi dom sprityo for you?

Pretty much. Jack and Radishes are locked pretty heavily in the center for me. Same with Dom at the bottom. Basically nothing has given me reason to change their overall positions since all three have played into what I've already viewed of them.

Epi has actually trended downward because of post #909, where he says I'm bad for making posts that focus on maintaining the status quo. Which if you consider having 3 of 9 slots locked down, and 2 more (MR + Dom) where I've been basically in the same view of them for multiple phases? Then I'll cop to liking the status quo and thinking it's pro town here.

Since remember, the status quo is not inherently bad, what matters is if the status quo is one that benefits town or not. And I think this is a case of one and let me explain.

So Nook is a weird kill. He's a good player but there are others of his caliber here and he notably was one of the less engaged players. So why was he targeted? He's not the player I would have gone for in a doc dodge. I thought about it and the main thing I can consider as viable is that his main scum reads were Eva and myself. And that wouldn't be enough for me to really make sense of it except Eva and I were part of a burgeoning town core.

So Nook specifically seems like an attempt to sow suspicion and break it apart to keep town disorganized, which only increases my Eva lock town rating. And them wanting to break this up is important since it means scum does not like the status quo at the end of D2 where people were coming together and finding each other.

So I think we had a pretty solid POE outline going on and I just dislike how Epi has looked at the same set of events and gotten the exact opposite view from them.

And Sprit is a case where I like individual posts but when I look at the ISO as a whole it just feels bleh, especially with the amount of posts situated there. Still is primarily a case of I don't feel like dropping Colin to the bottom is right so Sprit is the one who has to fit in.

[sprityo]

I can assure you radish that provoking dom was not on my list of things i wanted to do.

[iaafr]

the status quo thing is exactly what jack said

but it seemed like an original thought from jack and possibly opportunistic from epi

but i can't rule out it being w/w and you guys just hard distancing or even epi being town and finally coming around on you despite being stubborn for no reason on you before that moment which is certainly believable

[iaafr]

i actually never paid attention to nooks reads that much last phase lol

so i cant corroborate if what pawn is saying is accurate

and uh isnt that like level 2 logic

isnt level 1 logic pointing at nook was possibly nk'd cuz he was correctly sussing you?

[iaafr]

this day actually mirrors d1 in a lot of ways except pawn is my new 112

i miss 112

[iaafr]

but i mean yeah your logics a bit weird

wouldnt keeping him alive to keep sussing the towncore sow suspicion on its own?

why would scum assume people would even remember nooks reads

[Pawn Lelouch]

i actually never paid attention to nooks reads that much last phase lol

so i cant corroborate if what pawn is saying is accurate

and uh isnt that like level 2 logic

isnt level 1 logic pointing at nook was possibly nk'd cuz he was correctly sussing you?

I guess but I don't see the need for me to do so in that position. You and Eva are in a solid TR of me at the moment so I keep that around, especially when being the main doctor targets. Low posters are kept around for easy control around.

So I'd be looking at a kill screen of Nook, Epi, or MR. Just based on engagement I kill Epi or MR everytime over Nook. Nook scum reading me doesn't worry me. I'd rather kill someone who has a nebulous TR or null of me and some thread control vs a person who is SRing me without thread control.

[iaafr]

my heart keeps telling me to type

{pawn sprityo dom}

but ye its a bit strange