Inception [Inception Phase 4]

[Master Radishes]

reads off reads off

post the reads you had d1 and d2, both of you

I don't even remember who's in this game.

[iaafr]

alright well thanks for getting let the bodies hit the floor stuck in my head

[iaafr]

And I've now read your updated Rabbit case and that looks good too. Scales are definitely tipping towards Epi being the scum in your pair. I don't like that because it means Dom's probably town, but I can deal.

@Evenstar why do you have epi/Dom not w/w

I don't feel like any sane scumteam just completely commits to trying to body you through the floor today.

Dom and Epi have both been extremely agressive towards you, and I just don't buy that a pair of wolves would be that brazen.

I could be wrong and Dom could just have piled onto his scumleader's case without really thinking about it, but... Frankly, I think Dom actually does think through his actions better than that. Plus, he's been acting weirdly buddyish at Epi, which is additional evidence they're not w/w.

the very last part I had in mind already, and yea it'd be a bit weird because hed be trying to consciously spew his own partner town

but maybe Dom's just one of those powerwolves with a treat partners as obvious town and only shade town kind of philosophy

can't totally rule it out

noted though, thanks

[Master Radishes]

112
Mac
Michelle
LLD
...someone else

Benson
Nutella
Juliets
Hyena
TonyStarkPrime
...I'm already struggling

[iaafr]

1. nothing wrong with me
2. nothing wrong with me
3. nothing wrong with me
4. nothing wrong with me

[Jackofhearts2005]

reads off reads off

post the reads you had d1 and d2, both of you

This is dated on Halloween. That’s probably early D2?

Town
Nutella
Mac
Epi
Creature

Maybe town
Benson
Eva
Michelle
Sprityo
Boopiny

Null
Nova
Quin
DF
Juliets
LC
Pawn
Tony
TL
Dom
LadyLD

Maybe scum
Nanook
Vanity

Scum vote pool
Radishes
Ifaar
112

I know. Super against the grain. Reads on people in the previous dream.

[sprityo]

So who’re your three atm?

I’m seeing a lot of townreads on consensus suspects or your former suspects in your iso.

I'm finding lots of reasons to townread people. That's half the battle!

In focusing on previous scumreads I'm finding reasons to townread instead. The only person I'm leaning definitely on the scum side right now is sprityo.

You're so null it bothers me. Dom has moved up in my books.

I think I need to reconsider Colin now. And Epi needs a reread too.

anyways, i need to know your 3 time now. it's for my pretty chart im doing

same for [mention]Dom[/mention] and [mention]Jackofhearts2005[/mention] if they can

[Evenstar]

Okay, I've gone through your responses and I'm largely satisfied, so long as you actually return with that Epignosis case.

I have one additional follow-up before I get out of your hair: why are you placing Colin above Sprityo? I get that Colin got forced out of the bottom by Epi falling, and I also get that you don't feel that Sprityo's outburst last EOD is worth much, but my feel of the two of them is that Sprityo has done significantly more to help solve than Colin, especially today - note him pointing out the "but how would they know he was the doublevoter" flaw in my reasoning. That kind of catch takes real thought and analysis: I've seen little of similar depth from Colin. Sort by post count today also backs up my impression. Are you sure you've really thought your current PoE through?

does it really take that much though

that's easily in the realm of stuff any scum player could think about

things that only take essentially pure logic and reasoning are always things I can't give cred for

I'm arguing the logical side here because I know Pawn responds to it: TBH, I think one of the most clearing things Sprityo's done was have his meltdown at EoD yesterday.

[Master Radishes]

Anyway, before that heartattack Rabbit gave me, I was ISOing Colin.

What did I see in him before? There's nothing there. (Oh wait, that's what I saw before, I just didn't SR it.) There's nothing about his posts that can't be faked. In fact, you wouldn't even have to fake very hard.

So Colin can slip into my bottom 3. Now I just need one more.

[iaafr]

alright mystery solved you both had reads

[iaafr]

I can confirm jack misspelled my name that exact way in his d2 readslist I remember this

[Master Radishes]

1. nothing wrong with me
2. nothing wrong with me
3. nothing wrong with me
4. nothing wrong with me

This is just your defense against the Syndicaters...

[iaafr]

look if people are gonna keep pushing me on stuff I could defend myself against with quotes from d1 d2 I'm gonna keep acting annoying because I'm annoyed I cant

and like

I don't even agree with the whole protocol of accusing somebody directly to their face and asking them to defend themselves

[iaafr]

and yes I know you're just making a joke quip but I'm still a bit sore here and I'm not above using my own soreness to towntell except apparently nobody can read these sorts of towntells

ok exiting rant mode again

[sprityo]

alright is there anyone ive got wrong?

this looks to be the vote spread based off of everyone's ISOs

[iaafr]

1. something's got to give
2. something's got to give
3. something's got to give

RÀAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Jackofhearts2005]

I can confirm jack misspelled my name that exact way in his d2 readslist I remember this

Lol locktown amiright?

[Jackofhearts2005]

My 3 are now Pawn/Dom/Colin.

[Evenstar]

So who’re your three atm?

I’m seeing a lot of townreads on consensus suspects or your former suspects in your iso.

I'm finding lots of reasons to townread people. That's half the battle!

In focusing on previous scumreads I'm finding reasons to townread instead. The only person I'm leaning definitely on the scum side right now is sprityo.

You're so null it bothers me. Dom has moved up in my books.

I think I need to reconsider Colin now. And Epi needs a reread too.

anyways, i need to know your 3 time now. it's for my pretty chart im doing

same for @Dom and @Jackofhearts2005 if they can

Sprityo, as someone who has a pretty chart herself, read the OP:

"Likewise, each of the following is prohibited on this dream level:

~ Stating who you will vote for.
~ Recommending others vote for any specific player.
~ Rainbow lists
~ Any other obvious actions which do or can reduce your potential vote with certainty to a single player.
~ Compile a public count of potential votes, even if uncertain, based upon content in the thread."

If you're doing that for public consumption then I think this bans it

I'd at least ask JJJ

[Jackofhearts2005]

Oof

[Master Radishes]

Let me try this a different way, since I'm finding it too easy to townread peeps.

My best reason for TRing...
...iaafr is because doublevoter + I had some 'pre-warning' of his style from spec chat, so everything I see fits perfectly
...Evenstar is because of Spiny's Mason flip and associated post
...Epi is because his push on iaafr today felt so pure and bold and I don't know why scum target Rabbit to powerwolf out if that's their plan today
...Pawn is because I vibe with his posts a lot
...Dom is because his aggression didn't seem faked or forced and there were nuggets of opinions hidden within
...Jack is because I see no attempt at manipulating events and shows no concern about scumreads against him or bothers engaging with them to explain why they're wrong
...Sprityo is because he's had one or two surprisingly insightful reads about mechanics (e.g. about who might have submitted the NK or something; I forget, but I liked it)
...Colin is because there's nothing inherently scummy I can see in his few posts


That was...insightful. I think Jack is higher than I realised, Epi a little weaker than I had in mind, and my bottom three is {Colin, Sprit, Pawn} but that's even without Eva's case on pawn.

[sprityo]

So who’re your three atm?

I’m seeing a lot of townreads on consensus suspects or your former suspects in your iso.

I'm finding lots of reasons to townread people. That's half the battle!

In focusing on previous scumreads I'm finding reasons to townread instead. The only person I'm leaning definitely on the scum side right now is sprityo.

You're so null it bothers me. Dom has moved up in my books.

I think I need to reconsider Colin now. And Epi needs a reread too.

anyways, i need to know your 3 time now. it's for my pretty chart im doing

same for @Dom and @Jackofhearts2005 if they can

Sprityo, as someone who has a pretty chart herself, read the OP:

"Likewise, each of the following is prohibited on this dream level:

~ Stating who you will vote for.
~ Recommending others vote for any specific player.
~ Rainbow lists
~ Any other obvious actions which do or can reduce your potential vote with certainty to a single player.
~ Compile a public count of potential votes, even if uncertain, based upon content in the thread."

If you're doing that for public consumption then I think this bans it

I'd at least ask JJJ

Im probably dead anyways let's see if i can skate by

[sprityo]

I'll die as i lived, doing my best and being bad at it

[iaafr]

i mean

if you read epis entry on me d1

it looked like... town moments but with strong pause

I don't think he treated me like that sod

I think he was acting like my nolynch vote was some kind of smoking gun people should even consider policy lynching me for

I still hated the push to the point where if he's town I'm considering killing him for taking such a bad direction to start d3

[sprityo]

now im disgruntled, im gonna vote and then disappear

see you cats tomorrow (probably not) i guess

[iaafr]

and yes obviously I'm the most biased in that situation but idk man

I often see situations where a scum pushes a town, it gets into an overblown extended thing, and people just instinctually town/town it when its wrong

[Evenstar]

So who’re your three atm?

I’m seeing a lot of townreads on consensus suspects or your former suspects in your iso.

I'm finding lots of reasons to townread people. That's half the battle!

In focusing on previous scumreads I'm finding reasons to townread instead. The only person I'm leaning definitely on the scum side right now is sprityo.

You're so null it bothers me. Dom has moved up in my books.

I think I need to reconsider Colin now. And Epi needs a reread too.

anyways, i need to know your 3 time now. it's for my pretty chart im doing

same for @Dom and @Jackofhearts2005 if they can

Sprityo, as someone who has a pretty chart herself, read the OP:

"Likewise, each of the following is prohibited on this dream level:

~ Stating who you will vote for.
~ Recommending others vote for any specific player.
~ Rainbow lists
~ Any other obvious actions which do or can reduce your potential vote with certainty to a single player.
~ Compile a public count of potential votes, even if uncertain, based upon content in the thread."

If you're doing that for public consumption then I think this bans it

I'd at least ask JJJ

Im probably dead anyways let's see if i can skate by

[iaafr]

I appreciate your effort sprityo

[Master Radishes]

i mean

if you read epis entry on me d1

it looked like... town moments but with strong pause

I don't think he treated me like that sod

I think he was acting like my nolynch vote was some kind of smoking gun people should even consider policy lynching me for

I still hated the push to the point where if he's town I'm considering killing him for taking such a bad direction to start d3

I was considering doing a similar scumread list, and that was already in mind for Epi, that he thought your no vote was enough to build a case in the uncertainty of these mechanics.

[Master Radishes]

Neither emotional outbursts at EoD nor colourful charts are ever going to make me TR someone.

But I'm still not sure how I feel about a sprityo lynch. There's no particular reason for it beyond overall play not being enough to convince me not to.

[Master Radishes]

I think I'm going to take a break. I'll try to return for EoD but it's now later here (11pm) since DST and I'm an old man who sometimes drifts off.

[iaafr]

gn radishes

[Evenstar]

Yeesh, 1 hour again
where does the day go

I feel like sprit's chart is out of date and in any case it'd be against the spirit to use it as a voting guide

I'm just going to vote my heart and hope

{Epi, Dom, Colin}

[JaggedJimmyJay]

Deadline in approximately 56 minutes.

[Dom]

Pawn clearly didn't care what he accusations against iaafr were-- any way to clear him, he was cool with.

Why?

If I had to guess I would say he's trying to pocket me/rabbit. There's the possibility that he's scum with rabbit, but his saying to Rabbit that Epi is overreacting and to Epi that Rabbit is overreacting strikes me more as a W/T/T or T/T/T interaction than a W/W/T one. That looks like he's trying to earn towncred with both of them by playing the neutral mediator.

Does pocket translate to buddying?

I still would like you to go through your reasoning on Epi and Iaafr again slowly. Yes, I know you've explained both your Rabbit and Epi reads; please do so again in a broader context. I want to see how you get where you are.

Okay, here's iaafr first. And yes, I know he's the one people care about less but frankly he's easier and faster for me to do, even with how much larger the length of his ISO is.

So first I'm just going to reiterate one of my previous posts

```For the most part since early D1 I've honestly found him to be largely acting in a town manner and I generally like the direction that he has pushed in terms of reads. And yes, he did the unvote rather than vote but that doesn't change that he's been fairly solid everywhere else this game.

Especially when you consider the fact that the fact that he removed the 112 vote still helped with Drago and is something that he had to have known would be scummy looking as either alignment due to timing. And full disclosure that is the type of play I have done before, and while it's risky it is something that can work in terms of trying to guarantee a life extension. So I can see the thought process and the weird half measure doesn't feel like scum in that instance, since he would have committed to a hard stance and not ended it on the no lynch.

And while I think iaafr is overreacting in terms of annoyance from your questions I can see how his frustration comes from the setup and is being exacerbated, where the way he is reacting isn't necessarily productive, but feels like town iaafr from what I've observed in other games and spec. ``` (Yes, I know this isn't discord but it's easier for me)

To clarify, for the annoyance thing I mentioned both Epi and iaafr were in the wrong on some level. Epi with regards to how he pressured and iaafr in regards to swapping to all caps posting and explicitly trolling. Still though, the actual reasoning behind why was a clear source of frustration, and while frustration itself is never AI on it's own, the reasoning behind the frustration and how they express it is. And I'm seeing pure bafflement being an undercurrent throughout all of this time period, where he can't imagine why he isn't town to people. Scum don't have that type of self confidence, at least not if they aren't completely confident publicly.

And iaafr has been anything but that, with him constantly flipping and shifting reads, which yes, is iaafr in a nutshell, but even so I'm seeing genuine concern within his thought processes. Those are real thoughts and emotions, I just don't see him being able to fake those.

Still fully agreeing on the half measure section.

And when it comes down to it I think we're reading most of the game in a similar manner and I'm getting reads that match with my own fairly well. And yes, people can try and claim I don't have independent thought, to which I call wrong, but it doesn't change the fact that if my reads are aligning so much with ES/iaafr/MR there is a reason for it. Yes, to an extent I do think part is the clique bit MR mentioned, but there's been so many thought processes that I just am finding myself agreeing with, and I honestly can't see him as scum within the context of this game state.

This analysis is just factually wrong or intentionally vague.
1) "Acting solid" What does that even mean? Who is to disagree with that? It's a platitude.
2) I would say that iaafr has actually been quite consistent in his insistence that anyone who disagrees with him is bad. I would not have described him as flipping and shifting reads. Just yours, actually.
3) "His outbursts aren't AI, but here's how they indicate his alignment"

Like...
I didn't like this post one bit.

So who’re your three atm?

I’m seeing a lot of townreads on consensus suspects or your former suspects in your iso.

I'm finding lots of reasons to townread people. That's half the battle!

In focusing on previous scumreads I'm finding reasons to townread instead. The only person I'm leaning definitely on the scum side right now is sprityo.

You're so null it bothers me. Dom has moved up in my books.

I think I need to reconsider Colin now. And Epi needs a reread too.

anyways, i need to know your 3 time now. it's for my pretty chart im doing

same for @Dom and @Jackofhearts2005 if they can

Sprityo, Pawn, iaafr

[Dom]

alright is there anyone ive got wrong?

this looks to be the vote spread based off of everyone's ISOs

Anyone else find it weird that I have 5 and they're in a different color?

[iaafr]

pocketing means trying to keep a townread by constantly townreading somebody and/or expressing sympathy and similar viewpoints

so yeah it's very similar to buddying if not identical

[Dom]

If I'm honest, sometimes I read y'all's lingo and I just glaze over.

[Dom]

Sprit seems unnecessarily downtrodden. LOL

[iaafr]

yea it feels a bit played up perhaps

[iaafr]

I've been settling on epignosis Jack sprityo tbh

[Dom]

Like two others are in the exact position he is in and I'm coming in hot behind him.

[iaafr]

your point 3 is misreading his point

he says frustration isn't ai in a vacuum but the context makes it towny

[Dom]

your point 3 is misreading his point

he says frustration isn't ai in a vacuum but the context makes it towny

I don't find that true.

[iaafr]

guess it seems kinda notable that epignosis and Dom both spend their posts closest to eod attacking pawns posts

if I'm in tunnel logic and I'm in accordingtoplan mode

this is what I would've expected out of them as scum after giving them an opening to attack pawn

[iaafr]

your point 3 is misreading his point

he says frustration isn't ai in a vacuum but the context makes it towny

I don't find that true.

that's fine but you're wrong to treat it as an obvious self contradiction when it's clearly not

[iaafr]

my kryptonite is players who attack players based on what I consider misreadings

whenever I incorrectly tunnel town it is often for that reason

so yea that gives me pause on dom

[Epignosis]

And I've now read your updated Rabbit case and that looks good too. Scales are definitely tipping towards Epi being the scum in your pair. I don't like that because it means Dom's probably town, but I can deal.

@Evenstar why do you have epi/Dom not w/w

I don't feel like any sane scumteam just completely commits to trying to body you through the floor today.

Dom and Epi have both been extremely agressive towards you, and I just don't buy that a pair of wolves would be that brazen.

I could be wrong and Dom could just have piled onto his scumleader's case without really thinking about it, but... Frankly, I think Dom actually does think through his actions better than that. Plus, he's been acting weirdly buddyish at Epi, which is additional evidence they're not w/w.

I reject this characterization of my interaction with iaafr. My purpose was to get satisfactory answers so that I could make a judgment. iaafr was the person who had the most posts that I had the most muddied view of. I'm not pleased with how it happened, but I ultimately accomplished my purpose.

[Epignosis]

look if people are gonna keep pushing me on stuff I could defend myself against with quotes from d1 d2 I'm gonna keep acting annoying because I'm annoyed I cant

and like

I don't even agree with the whole protocol of accusing somebody directly to their face and asking them to defend themselves

I don't think you need to be defending yourself at this juncture.

[Evenstar]

And I've now read your updated Rabbit case and that looks good too. Scales are definitely tipping towards Epi being the scum in your pair. I don't like that because it means Dom's probably town, but I can deal.

@Evenstar why do you have epi/Dom not w/w

I don't feel like any sane scumteam just completely commits to trying to body you through the floor today.

Dom and Epi have both been extremely agressive towards you, and I just don't buy that a pair of wolves would be that brazen.

I could be wrong and Dom could just have piled onto his scumleader's case without really thinking about it, but... Frankly, I think Dom actually does think through his actions better than that. Plus, he's been acting weirdly buddyish at Epi, which is additional evidence they're not w/w.

I reject this characterization of my interaction with iaafr. My purpose was to get satisfactory answers so that I could make a judgment. iaafr was the person who had the most posts that I had the most muddied view of. I'm not pleased with how it happened, but I ultimately accomplished my purpose.

What view did you achieve?