Inception [END]

[Creature]

Creature once again I don't know what you're on about

Then pretend I haven't posted that

[juliets]

Nanook was widely townread. Probably the wolf kill.

Probably.

[nutella]

Creature once again I don't know what you're on about

Then pretend I haven't posted that

ok, anything else you want to talk about? who do you think are the scum in control then? I think elephant is.

[juliets]

I unvoted @[mention]vanity.[/mention]. I am unsure at the moment about him for reasons I stated earlier.

[Long Con]

I spent my time tonight painting and didn't do any ISO reading or other analysis.

I'm fine with the Elephant vote, I was fine before and I really haven't made any significant advancements in my views. Assuming there are wolves among us, the "main thread", then I believe they are within Creature, Elephant, TLib, or vanity. We kind of don't need to sort Quin and Lexi out just yet, because if they are the only baddies present, then WTF have we been doing here, right? We need to root out the baddie that has been with us since the start, because I don't believe JJJ would put us here with an all-Civilian crew. He ain't that much of a bastard.

Sooo.... [VOTE: Elephant] aubergine

[Elephant]

I'm having an epiphan-t here. Many things make a lot of sense with a scum elephant. I just want the ok from juliets before I vote for him.

as I understood Juliets, she did not give you an ok? Or did she?

I can go into all of the reasons that I'd rather not go into, and I very much dislike that vanity is the source behind this. Obviously it won't involve me revealing private information, I'd simply not want scum to draw the same conclusions I did.

[Elephant]

in other news if it weren't obvious to me already nutella is absolutely town.

I notice you were saying that as nutella prepared to unvote you, and you accuse me of pocketing?

[Elephant]

oh i remember now. nutella, what's the likelihood you think there's a wolf between me and elephant?

Idk, I don't like making up likelihoods and false dichotomies like that.

Yes, you do.

@Benson you are scum right? Popping in and out to share your two cents. You're hiding something bucko.

He's had a lot more interactive content than you so far tbh. Lots of juicy meaty meta discussion between him and 112 and Radish. One of those three is probably scum, maybe him, but lack of content is not a valid reason to suspect him.

[Elephant]

?

in a vacuum i don't think elephant is trying to pocket juliets if elephant is a wolf. at the very least i don't think it's intentional.

also i had another thing to say and completely forgot about it... whatever.

If he's a wolf, he absolutely has deliberately pocketed juliets, just take my word for it lol.

Why can't you explain this?

[Elephant]

It strikes me that wagons on me tend to hapoen when I am not actually in the thread, which is largely predictable because most people tend to sleep at night. It's not a push designed to determine my alignment, it's just a straight hatchet job with a transparent aim. Examine the reasons given for the sudden swing by nutella or Long Con, there aren't any, and vanity, who prompted the swing, hasn't given any reasons either.

And we know that nutella led up to a game state change by linking that MU article by General Handkerchief. Letting GH speak for her avoided her taking responsibility for this; Hyena did. He aimed it at nutella, and was rejected. And now vanity has driven a change, with an agenda that should surprise absolutely nobody. If there was a true re-evaluation going on, we'd see cases on me, players engaging me, trying to understand my play, but that's not happening. The effect is going to be yet another day that Vanity survives a serious push, and the agenda there is anti-town. In fact, I am questioning if the second killer, whom we assumed to be a town vigilante, is actually town-aligned; we assumed so because they helped us by resolving wagons, but last night, the vanity wagon was not resolved! That fits with the killer really being anti-town. If we decide that this killer is not town-aligned (and they haven't shot a single scum yet), that will change my outlook on this game considerably.

[Elephant]

Wagonomics: a wagon without resistance is usually a scum push, and the vanity wagon had no resistance--until now. The wagon attempt on me is the resistance, and the Ty4on wagon was the resistance yesterday. On D2, the resistance was "mendel doesn't have enough credibility to wagon vanity", and that sufficed. The vanity wagon has been counterpushed every day, and today marks the third time.

Vanity has been setting the game state on Day 2. Let me quote from "Stopping the Juggernaut": Powerwolfing "is an active approach designed to take control of the game and dictate which lynches are and are not acceptable". This is the agenda vanity has set:

tlib
elephant
juliets
long con
dfaraday

this is the list of suspects i'm working within today. get crackalackin.

This is what the wolves are trying to revert the game state back to, if you look at what happened last night, it is very obvious. I explained on day 2 why this is not a good game state: it is statistically improbable that the weaker players rand scum and the stronger players don't; shaping your reads like this is strong player bias. I have been assuming that most players do it unintentionally, but maybe that is not always the case.

My personal take is that I have pushed the game state away from being wolfsided yesterday, but not enough since the lynch went to the easier push and not to vanity, and vanity is working hard today to push it back, and nutella is helping.

I am not voting nutella today because I think she may be an unwitting accomplice, because reasons, and because I think that leaving vanity unflipped for yet another day is untenable and will ruin town morale. We need to lynch vanity today, or this game is likely to go down the drain. We need a scum lynch today.

[Elephant]

I identified strong players on day 2 by a criterium independent of their performance in this game: anyone who advanced in the MU championships is undoubtedly "strong". Benson revealed that he had advanced in a previous season, and including Nanook and LLD, who played this year's finale, the list is Benson, Lady LambdaDelta, Nanook, nutella, Spiny Creature, Vanity. I know why vanity is still alive. nutella is either scum with vanity, or left alive because she was considered pocketed (the vote on Ty4on probably helped create that impression).

[Hyena]

Hi. I can't sleep, so I'm going to post a bunch of thoughts.

[nutella]

Oh maaaan there is a lot to unpack here lol but I need to be sleeping now

[Hyena]

First and foremost,

[VOTE: Vanity] aubergine

[Hyena]

I feel dumb for blindly believing this tbh lol. You're right that elephant being in the towncore was just based on Nanook's read which may not be reliable.

Ok, then I don't get your big vanity turnaround today.

i don't think nutella has done a lot of turning around on me, the only thing is now she doesn't necessarily believe that juliets and elephant are interconnected villagers. wouldn't be surprised if she still wants to lynch me. based on a question i asked her elephant's alignment has nothing to do with mine in her mind.

[mention]vanity.[/mention]
I'm going to show you each time Nutella has flipped between you two. Hold on.

[Hyena]

elephant is so agenda-y

Spicy take. How so?

elephant is so agenda-y

I keep getting pings that he's slowly planting the seeds for future mislynches.

I can see that I guess at least in his interaction with juliets about Tony, that was pretty weird imo.

TL and to some extent Drago feel like the too-easy options for D1. Though Drago has also kinda disappeared. See if some pressure brings him in.[VOTE: drago] aubergine

Prob not staying on either of these guys. I don't want to end in a lame small brained mislynch. I wanna catch the big fishes

who are your big fish candidates

Pawn, LLD, maybe juliets or elephant

@Elephant I was thinking of your interaction with juliets as planting seeds on Tony, not on juliets but using her for it. Like she had backed off of her case but you were heavily encouraging her to go back and reinforce it.

Suspicion on Elephant from D1.

So vanity was an earlier Drago vote, briefly left it, then eventually was the one to break the tie with Epi. He's probably just town here.

Calls Vanity probably town at the beginning to D2.

(cont.)

[Hyena]

The analysis that nutella posted along with her vote history had this:

So vanity was an earlier Drago vote, briefly left it, then eventually was the one to break the tie with Epi. He's probably just town here.

Benson, iaafr, and pawn look generally okay but certainly not cleared from this. I'm trying to figure out who looks too clean and it's hard to tell. Maybe vanity.

Why does iaafr ending on "no lynch" look ok to you?
Why does Pawn Lelouch voting Dragomir look ok to you, but Trustworthy Liberal voting him next does not?
Why does Benson sheeping vanity. look ok to you? At the same time, vanity. looks "too clean", how is that?
I struggle to follow your thoughts here, nutella.

Idk, I admit I didn't spend a lot of time thinking about each player and just sort of typed up my first instincts. Your points here are definitely worth considering.

I thought those people looked ok on balance based on timing and how they defended their votes but it's not conclusive by any means.

I think Benson is just very towny overall, but I'm glad you're questioning vanity bc I'm less sure about him.

Elephant's points are now worth considering, and starting to switch on Vanity.

Ugh as much as I feel attached to my spiny suspicion I have to say boo is looking town now. I think his takes are largely misguided due to culture clash, but I think he really believes them.

Gonna move to [VOTE: vanity] aubergine for some pressure. Where you been dude? Kinda seems like you're coasting

@vanity. you don't have a huge number of D2 posts, and in most of them you have some focus on whether or not certain players were on the Drago wagon and ensuring that we consider potential bussing. I feel like we all reached a consensus that yes we need to look for bussers but somehow your contributions stop there and you haven't been very active in our actual hunting activity so far. If it's just a time issue I won't hold it against you but I do expect a little more when you're available.

Turns into a vote and accusation against Vanity. What's her opinion on Elephant at this moment? Maybe there isn't an explicit townread but she sure seems open to working with him against vanity at the moment:

To be absolutely clear, I do not scumread strong player bias per se, nor do I believe that only those players who have posted reads lists today have it. I do suspect the attempt to limit the day's activity to pushes on the weaker players only.

The strong player bias certainly exists and is a real trap that town can often fall into that makes it progressively harder to sniff out deepwolves because certain people are just granted townreads based on style as if they're scum they can coast on that. I'm glad you're bringing it up, the sooner we scrutinize our "strong player" townreads the better.

Anyway yeah I am liking elephant's vanity case

[nutella]

I'm having an epiphan-t here. Many things make a lot of sense with a scum elephant. I just want the ok from juliets before I vote for him.

as I understood Juliets, she did not give you an ok? Or did she?

I can go into all of the reasons that I'd rather not go into, and I very much dislike that vanity is the source behind this. Obviously it won't involve me revealing private information, I'd simply not want scum to draw the same conclusions I did.

I didn't get a strong no and her answers just made me think I could be right and she just hasn't considered you could be pocketing her. She has not vouched for you to the extent you have for her, so I think it's quite possible that you are scum taking advantage of her.

[nutella]

oh i remember now. nutella, what's the likelihood you think there's a wolf between me and elephant?

Idk, I don't like making up likelihoods and false dichotomies like that.

Yes, you do.

@Benson you are scum right? Popping in and out to share your two cents. You're hiding something bucko.

He's had a lot more interactive content than you so far tbh. Lots of juicy meaty meta discussion between him and 112 and Radish. One of those three is probably scum, maybe him, but lack of content is not a valid reason to suspect him.

Oh psh that's a lame comparison. That was d1 and a very different kind of read. You just trying to discredit me on a trivial point?

[Hyena]

@vanity. sorry dude, like I said I won't blame you for not being around, but please address this post:

@vanity. you don't have a huge number of D2 posts, and in most of them you have some focus on whether or not certain players were on the Drago wagon and ensuring that we consider potential bussing. I feel like we all reached a consensus that yes we need to look for bussers but somehow your contributions stop there and you haven't been very active in our actual hunting activity so far. If it's just a time issue I won't hold it against you but I do expect a little more when you're available.

And please also address the actual points in elephant's iso. I will probably move off you but only if you take this pressure seriously.

When will I be mislynched btw? I want to know when it's ready

why are you so concerned about being lynched today? just because you didn't vote on the wolf wagon?

Not a fan of this post

Still against Vanity at this point, and then....

Ugh vanity, the only thing Im nervous about is how concerned you are about how "villagery" you've been. That just makes me suspect you're a wolf that thinks he played a clean game and deserves credit.

But he did the same thing in wc1 to some extent.

I'm still uneasy about him but not feeling great about actually voting him anymore. [VOTE: boo] aubergine

Nothing done to resolve the Elephant vs. Vanity conflict. I'll give her some leeway here though, since things weren't really all that clear at that time.

[nutella]

It strikes me that wagons on me tend to hapoen when I am not actually in the thread, which is largely predictable because most people tend to sleep at night. It's not a push designed to determine my alignment, it's just a straight hatchet job with a transparent aim. Examine the reasons given for the sudden swing by nutella or Long Con, there aren't any, and vanity, who prompted the swing, hasn't given any reasons either.

And we know that nutella led up to a game state change by linking that MU article by General Handkerchief. Letting GH speak for her avoided her taking responsibility for this; Hyena did. He aimed it at nutella, and was rejected. And now vanity has driven a change, with an agenda that should surprise absolutely nobody. If there was a true re-evaluation going on, we'd see cases on me, players engaging me, trying to understand my play, but that's not happening. The effect is going to be yet another day that Vanity survives a serious push, and the agenda there is anti-town. In fact, I am questioning if the second killer, whom we assumed to be a town vigilante, is actually town-aligned; we assumed so because they helped us by resolving wagons, but last night, the vanity wagon was not resolved! That fits with the killer really being anti-town. If we decide that this killer is not town-aligned (and they haven't shot a single scum yet), that will change my outlook on this game considerably.

This is some bullshit shade on me I think, though you still admit I'm town after this. I don't get it. I think you have needed to be resolved since d2 as much as vanity. And I think the vig probably just ran out of points, I doubt they're not town aligned (I assumed the structure of the role list in the op is meaningful and not misleading).

[nutella]

Wagonomics: a wagon without resistance is usually a scum push, and the vanity wagon had no resistance--until now. The wagon attempt on me is the resistance, and the Ty4on wagon was the resistance yesterday. On D2, the resistance was "mendel doesn't have enough credibility to wagon vanity", and that sufficed. The vanity wagon has been counterpushed every day, and today marks the third time.

Vanity has been setting the game state on Day 2. Let me quote from "Stopping the Juggernaut": Powerwolfing "is an active approach designed to take control of the game and dictate which lynches are and are not acceptable". This is the agenda vanity has set:

tlib
elephant
juliets
long con
dfaraday

this is the list of suspects i'm working within today. get crackalackin.

This is what the wolves are trying to revert the game state back to, if you look at what happened last night, it is very obvious. I explained on day 2 why this is not a good game state: it is statistically improbable that the weaker players rand scum and the stronger players don't; shaping your reads like this is strong player bias. I have been assuming that most players do it unintentionally, but maybe that is not always the case.

My personal take is that I have pushed the game state away from being wolfsided yesterday, but not enough since the lynch went to the easier push and not to vanity, and vanity is working hard today to push it back, and nutella is helping.

I am not voting nutella today because I think she may be an unwitting accomplice, because reasons, and because I think that leaving vanity unflipped for yet another day is untenable and will ruin town morale. We need to lynch vanity today, or this game is likely to go down the drain. We need a scum lynch today.

You are the juggernaut my trunked friend.

[nutella]

I understand that I would look terrible if vanity ends up flipping wolf. I've accepted that by now. I'm just doing my best to actually solve the game and I think elephant is the more likely puppeteer who has steered the last few days and used the vanity focus to his advantage. If I'm wrong, so be it, but I won't let this go unexamined.

[Hyena]

Someone wanna tag me with cliff notes about who was scummy yesterday here, cause uh....I’m not reading back

Lol like nobody tho. Maybe elephant or vanity but never both

Most all of us were read as scum by some at some point in the day (nutella I think we all saw as town all the way through).

And Benson. He and I were both pretty clear of suspicion.

You, LC, and TL I have varying levels of concern about but after yesterday I think it's likely one of elephant or vanity is scum, maybe with TL also based on how that went down.

It's subtle, but she's still pushing that Elephant vs Vanity agenda here. TLib, who Vanity is voting for currently, is also thrown in here, too, as a possible partner to them.

@Creature why aren't you scum

@Elephant why aren't you scum

I'ma start with a vote for one of you two probs

[VOTE: Elephant] aubergine

@nutella did you see my questions to you? If you don't want to talk about both, maybe you could just talk about Elephant since you voted him.

I just feel like he's the most likely scum in this bunch rn, partially poe and partially his thread activity/pushes on d2 (and some on d1). Like in general he seems like he might have an agenda. Could be teamed with TL I guess. I will do more in depth research in a bit, see how I feel about him in relation to Drago and such.

Switching back to the "Elephant is scum" side again.

[Hyena]

[VOTE: Elephant] aubergine

[VOTE: Elephant] aubergine

[VOTE: vanity] aubergine

Mmm?

Here, I placed a vote on Vanity to compete with the Elephant wagon.

hyena why are you such a tough case to crack every time you're in the game...

like i want to say this is villa hyena but... idk what else to say. i don't think it's that simple tbh

I like making this complicated. :P Keeps the game fun.

Actually that's a p bad post from vanity

Nutella, you've called Vanity potential scum a couple times, but you haven't seemed to really push on him all that much from what I've seen. Is there something going on between you two? :P

I'm hesitant to vote for him bc I keep getting pushed back to thinking he's town but at the moment I'm leaning more toward taking suspicion of him more seriously

Swinging BAAAACK to "vanity is more suspicious"

is flavor claiming even legal in this game?

JJJ said in the rules post we can claim character but not role or abilities.

Nice I tottaly missed that does it give us anything to flavor claim?

....what is this

you've like, read your role pm right?

or are you scum with a safe claim like dragomir's that you missed somehow lol

This is related to the townslip from him I mentioned yesterday. :P Suppose TL /didn't/ have a fakeclaim and didn't have a role that looked similar to the VTs that have been flipped so far, like Dragomir's for example (he flipped as FORGER). What would that lead you to believe?

(again though, take it with a huuuuge grain of salt)

sure ok

Doesn't challenge me on my TLib read here despite scumreading(?) him earlier.

[Hyena]

Hmm.

Question to all:

Do you think Spiny/Boo flipping town helped the other group solve people within their group? Do you think one of Vanity's or Elephant's flips will help them? How about Ty4on, who they apparently voted out of the group? Should we be trying to help give them info via flipping the people they send here?

Well I think vanity's or elephant's flip could be interesting to them regardless, though they'd have to assess interactions from d1 based on memory

Supports flipping one of Vanity or Elephant here.

Sure

Can we do vanity first or are you set on elephant?

Nah I'll probably be down for vanity. I didn't get around to investigating elephant more today like I meant to, though I might have a chance later or in the morning.

Down for Vanity first.

Still waiting for some reaction from vanity to the wagon, but I could be down for an LC counter. I might be on the wrong track with Elephant, and Creature has a point that someone's gotta be skating by without much attention and LC is certainly a prime candidate for that position.

Then she's down for a counter wagon, lol.

Nanook why do you think elephant and juliets are unlikely to be w/w? I was just considering that possibility so please enlighten me.

I find myself reaching the general conclusion that vanity is in fact the best choice for today. I have better reasons to townread just about everyone else. And I expect more of a fight from him as town.

Let's just do it [VOTE: vanity] aubergine

Back on board with a vanity lynch!

Ugh I do kind of believe the dumbtell though


back to [VOTE: elephant] aubergine

Then effortlessly swings back to voting Elephant, lol.

[Hyena]

yeah elephant's just a wolf. hope people sheep me glgl

I'm on board. I have a particular fear of being wrong about him specifically, but I feel bad enough about his play on balance that I feel okay voting him over you here.

On board with Vanity to lynch Elephant again!

yeah elephant's just a wolf. hope people sheep me glgl

I'm on board. I have a particular fear of being wrong about him specifically, but I feel bad enough about his play on balance that I feel okay voting him over you here.

you fear being wrong on him? why did you think he was town?

I'd rather not elaborate rn

TBH, I would personally like for you to elaborate because it feels like you don't have good reasons to explain why you're "townreading" either of Elephant or Vanity.

for the record wolves almost certainly voted on me while i was away so guess i'm lock clear xd

How many wolves do you think are in this group? Anyone you specifically think may be teamed with elephant?

Welcome to the town core elephant and juliets

For me it’s between vanity and creature for the kill, nutes I’m guessing you want vanity over creature based off a snippet of a post I saw from you thay was a TR for creature I think?

Ugh idk. I switched very quickly to really thinking vanity is town.

Not totally convinced on the elephant/juliets thing but I guess I can't ask for why I should be.

Maybe we should just lynch ty4on

"Ayy, let's lynch Ty instead of doing what I said I wanted to do earlier and flip one of Elephant or Vanity."

[Hyena]

Like, do I really need to go on? Nutella has been swinging wherever the tide goes between Elephant and Vanity, and then, when she has had a chance to flip one of them, she hasn't. TWICE.

[Hyena]

[VOTE: Nutella] aubergine

Honestly, this is what I want to see happen now.

[Elephant]

Wagonomics: a wagon without resistance is usually a scum push, and the vanity wagon had no resistance--until now. The wagon attempt on me is the resistance, and the Ty4on wagon was the resistance yesterday. On D2, the resistance was "mendel doesn't have enough credibility to wagon vanity", and that sufficed. The vanity wagon has been counterpushed every day, and today marks the third time.

Vanity has been setting the game state on Day 2. Let me quote from "Stopping the Juggernaut": Powerwolfing "is an active approach designed to take control of the game and dictate which lynches are and are not acceptable". This is the agenda vanity has set:

tlib
elephant
juliets
long con
dfaraday

this is the list of suspects i'm working within today. get crackalackin.

This is what the wolves are trying to revert the game state back to, if you look at what happened last night, it is very obvious. I explained on day 2 why this is not a good game state: it is statistically improbable that the weaker players rand scum and the stronger players don't; shaping your reads like this is strong player bias. I have been assuming that most players do it unintentionally, but maybe that is not always the case.

My personal take is that I have pushed the game state away from being wolfsided yesterday, but not enough since the lynch went to the easier push and not to vanity, and vanity is working hard today to push it back, and nutella is helping.

I am not voting nutella today because I think she may be an unwitting accomplice, because reasons, and because I think that leaving vanity unflipped for yet another day is untenable and will ruin town morale. We need to lynch vanity today, or this game is likely to go down the drain. We need a scum lynch today.

You are the juggernaut my trunked friend.

None of the wagons I have voted on have been lynched. NONE. How am I supposed to be controlling the lynches? I have been pushing vanity for three days now, to no avail. You have been voting on ALL of the lynches. If vanity had self-preserved, he'd have been voting on all the lynches. Actually, come to think of it, your vote behaviour might be a strong clear for you. Hmm.

[Elephant]

It strikes me that wagons on me tend to hapoen when I am not actually in the thread, which is largely predictable because most people tend to sleep at night. It's not a push designed to determine my alignment, it's just a straight hatchet job with a transparent aim. Examine the reasons given for the sudden swing by nutella or Long Con, there aren't any, and vanity, who prompted the swing, hasn't given any reasons either.

And we know that nutella led up to a game state change by linking that MU article by General Handkerchief. Letting GH speak for her avoided her taking responsibility for this; Hyena did. He aimed it at nutella, and was rejected. And now vanity has driven a change, with an agenda that should surprise absolutely nobody. If there was a true re-evaluation going on, we'd see cases on me, players engaging me, trying to understand my play, but that's not happening. The effect is going to be yet another day that Vanity survives a serious push, and the agenda there is anti-town. In fact, I am questioning if the second killer, whom we assumed to be a town vigilante, is actually town-aligned; we assumed so because they helped us by resolving wagons, but last night, the vanity wagon was not resolved! That fits with the killer really being anti-town. If we decide that this killer is not town-aligned (and they haven't shot a single scum yet), that will change my outlook on this game considerably.

This is some bullshit shade on me I think, though you still admit I'm town after this. I don't get it. I think you have needed to be resolved since d2 as much as vanity. And I think the vig probably just ran out of points, I doubt they're not town aligned (I assumed the structure of the role list in the op is meaningful and not misleading).

The vigilante is town, but they might not be the night killer. The role list has a 3rd party, and we had a sanitized flip. It feels unlikely, but it is possible.

[Elephant]

Like, do I really need to go on? Nutella has been swinging wherever the tide goes between Elephant and Vanity, and then, when she has had a chance to flip one of them, she hasn't. TWICE.

Nice work on nutella wobbling! My world always had vanity as wolf as the centerpiece, and I wanted to flip vanity before nutella because of that. But your world suggests that there is a scum-sided interest in keeping the Elephant/vanity dichotomy going, and in that case vanity could be town-aligned. That does turn quite a few things on their head.

[juliets]

I'm having an epiphan-t here. Many things make a lot of sense with a scum elephant. I just want the ok from juliets before I vote for him.

as I understood Juliets, she did not give you an ok? Or did she?

I can go into all of the reasons that I'd rather not go into, and I very much dislike that vanity is the source behind this. Obviously it won't involve me revealing private information, I'd simply not want scum to draw the same conclusions I did.

I did not give the ok. Far from it.

[juliets]

Like, do I really need to go on? Nutella has been swinging wherever the tide goes between Elephant and Vanity, and then, when she has had a chance to flip one of them, she hasn't. TWICE.

Nice work on nutella wobbling! My world always had vanity as wolf as the centerpiece, and I wanted to flip vanity before nutella because of that. But your world suggests that there is a scum-sided interest in keeping the Elephant/vanity dichotomy going, and in that case vanity could be town-aligned. That does turn quite a few things on their head.

One thing about nutella that I just want to mention is she is wishy-washy and changes her mind often when town. I don't believe I've ever seen this many swings on the same person/people though.

[juliets]

[mention]Elephant[/mention] and [mention]Hyena[/mention] do you feel like vanity was just fabricating his lack of knowledge about why Nanook accepted me and Elephant into the town core?

[juliets]

Also, is Mendel here? There was reference to him during that last dialogue.

[Elephant]

@Elephant and @Hyena do you feel like vanity was just fabricating his lack of knowledge about why Nanook accepted me and Elephant into the town core?

If my assumptions hold, I'm fairly sure he doesn't know.

[Elephant]

Also, is Mendel here? There was reference to him during that last dialogue.

My apologies, what did I miss?

[juliets]

Also, is Mendel here? There was reference to him during that last dialogue.

My apologies, what did I miss?

I thought I saw a reference to him but can't find it now. I must have still been half asleep.

[Elephant]

Also, is Mendel here? There was reference to him during that last dialogue.

My apologies, what did I miss?

I thought I saw a reference to him but can't find it now. I must have still been half asleep.

I see what you mean.

[juliets]

I spent my time tonight painting and didn't do any ISO reading or other analysis.

I'm fine with the Elephant vote, I was fine before and I really haven't made any significant advancements in my views. Assuming there are wolves among us, the "main thread", then I believe they are within Creature, Elephant, TLib, or vanity. We kind of don't need to sort Quin and Lexi out just yet, because if they are the only baddies present, then WTF have we been doing here, right? We need to root out the baddie that has been with us since the start, because I don't believe JJJ would put us here with an all-Civilian crew. He ain't that much of a bastard.

Sooo.... [VOTE: Elephant] aubergine

LC is there anything specific that would help me better understand your vote here for Elephant? I'll look at your ISO, can't remember if you made a case on him at some point or not.

[juliets]

Wagonomics: a wagon without resistance is usually a scum push, and the vanity wagon had no resistance--until now. The wagon attempt on me is the resistance, and the Ty4on wagon was the resistance yesterday. On D2, the resistance was "mendel doesn't have enough credibility to wagon vanity", and that sufficed. The vanity wagon has been counterpushed every day, and today marks the third time.

Vanity has been setting the game state on Day 2. Let me quote from "Stopping the Juggernaut": Powerwolfing "is an active approach designed to take control of the game and dictate which lynches are and are not acceptable". This is the agenda vanity has set:

tlib
elephant
juliets
long con
dfaraday

this is the list of suspects i'm working within today. get crackalackin.

This is what the wolves are trying to revert the game state back to, if you look at what happened last night, it is very obvious. I explained on day 2 why this is not a good game state: it is statistically improbable that the weaker players rand scum and the stronger players don't; shaping your reads like this is strong player bias. I have been assuming that most players do it unintentionally, but maybe that is not always the case.

My personal take is that I have pushed the game state away from being wolfsided yesterday, but not enough since the lynch went to the easier push and not to vanity, and vanity is working hard today to push it back, and nutella is helping.

I am not voting nutella today because I think she may be an unwitting accomplice, because reasons, and because I think that leaving vanity unflipped for yet another day is untenable and will ruin town morale. We need to lynch vanity today, or this game is likely to go down the drain. We need a scum lynch today.

The last part is good to know because I can see Hyena's point too about nutella. At this point I have an easier time accepting that she's an unwitting accomplice.

[juliets]

Also, is Mendel here? There was reference to him during that last dialogue.

My apologies, what did I miss?

I thought I saw a reference to him but can't find it now. I must have still been half asleep.

I see what you mean.

lol I get it now.

[Creature]

Oh hi do you need me for the next few seconds?

[Creature]

Why are we wagoning Elephant?

[Creature]

I identified strong players on day 2 by a criterium independent of their performance in this game: anyone who advanced in the MU championships is undoubtedly "strong". Benson revealed that he had advanced in a previous season, and including Nanook and LLD, who played this year's finale, the list is Benson, Lady LambdaDelta, Nanook, nutella, Spiny Creature, Vanity. I know why vanity is still alive. nutella is either scum with vanity, or left alive because she was considered pocketed (the vote on Ty4on probably helped create that impression).

Not evrry strong player wants to bother playing MU champs

[Creature]

I think Hyena is town but very weakly

[Creature]

Trustworthy's first three posts are all excuses

[Creature]

I don't trust Long Con either