Inception [END]

[sprityo]

Posts I found notable from Evenstar on Day 4:

Spoiler: show

People I have removed from contention and why:
Evenstar: I'm town.
Dom: Makes no sense as a partner to either Radishes or Sprityo.
Rabbit: If he were scum, he would be here now, pocketing me. Also, Pawn would likely not be dead.
ColinisCool: Died last night and we still went to F3.
Pawn Lelouch: Died last night and we still went to F3.
Lady Lambdadelta: Never, ever stays in Layer 2 if she has a choice.
Novaselinenever: Was a lazy consensus lynch which faced little to no opposition.
NanookTheConqueror: Was almost certainly nightkilled.
Hyena: Always advances to deeper levels if he has a choice.

I also removed Nutella based on my heavy townread on her from D1, but now that I type that out I realize it's not a good reason. She could be scum in Sprityo's "Benson or Vanity" slot.

Spoiler: show

[10] Dragomir- Benson, nutella, vanity., Long Con, Master Radishes, Hyena, Trustworthy Liberal, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, Pawn Lelouch, juliets
[7] 112 - Creature, Evenstar, TonyStarkPrime, novaselinenever, Elephant, Epignosis, Jackofhearts2005
[3] Evenstar - Texas Cloverleaf, sprityo, Quin
[2] Hyena - Dom, Michelle
[2] No Lynch - iaafr, [Spiny Creature/boo]
[1] Epignosis - MacDougall
[1] MacDougall - Dragomir
[1] nutella - Lady LambdaDelta
[1] Trustworthy Liberal - 112
No Vote: Rej/ColinIsCool, DF

This feels bad to horrible for multiple reasons. Not enough scum on 112, LLD does not advance as scum, overall this cannot be the world.

Okay, I went and did some fucking proper analysis on this and it's cool.

My full scumteam guesses at this point are:

Sprityo World:
Sprityo
Epignosis
112
Quin or Michelle
TonyStarkPrime
Benson or Vanity

Radishes World:
Radishes
Epi or Jack
Quin or Michelle
TonyStarkPrime
Texas Cloverleaf
Elephant or Creature

Spoiler: show

... okay,

so.

My gut is yelling that Radishes is the correct lynch here. Between the vaguely-scummy mid-poster who's pushed me a couple times for bad reasons and the low-poster who had that outburst in D2 and seems to be doing their best to contribute and solve, I should be lynching the first one every time.

But this is final 3.

So I'm probably wrong, or else MLbait.

I'm not MLbait, so I'm wrong.

[VOTE: SPRITYO] aubergine

I did a bunch of NKA but it turned out to be a waste of damn time: pretty much anybody would want to break up the townbloc, and Pawn was by far the least likely to be docced.



I wish Rabbit was here.

Spoiler: show

sprityo
Frankly, it really goes against my instincts to be voting you right now. Radishes is inconsistent and wobbly, pushed me for stupid reasons, and accepted that the spiny post cleared me way too easily. I think, in my heart of hearts, even as I am voting you, that he's the scum here. I'm stomping on it 'cause I'm at lylo and therefore I am wrong.

Frankly, I don't really want to argue motives, becuse that's inherently a sea of wine. Nonetheless, I'll try and engage your points.

1: I was highly aggressive early on and it took Mac calling me out to get me to dial back. Sure, fine, fair. That is in fact my playstyle, and of course I tried to dial it back when the person who invited me told me to cut it back.

I've actually recieved moderator warnings on three different forums now regarding letting my pressure turn into personal attacks, so... yeah, I'm trying to be less of a bitch.

2: Day 2 and 3 were a pain in my ass for multiple reasons, primarily because my playstyle tends towards "shoving people hard and seeing if they break." Not being able to make it clear I was voting for someone made me feel like I was punching at air, and the general sense of disconnection and discomfort was infectious. I got stressed enough by beong stuck with the weird unexpected hidden vote ruleset to call Dom a dick and an asshole on Day 3, which I regretted pretty much instantly.

3: Honestly, given that Pawn missed the same thing I did regarding the doublevoter, I think you're overestimating how obvious the flaw was.

4: Yeah, there are probably a lot of inconsistencies. I'm an inconsistent person. I get why this may be a natural argument for you, but I really advise you against treating it as AI.

5: On consideration, I would say I'm here because I'm one of like two people who genuinely townread you, and Radishes is here because he pushed me as scum yesterday. I'm a little surprised that it's not Dom instead of Radishes, but I think in that case you might be too much of an obvious odd-man-out given our respective posting styles.

In the case where it's Radishes scum, then you're here because you're the lowest poster that's not Colin and I'm here because the scum know about my strat of flipping my reads at LyLo.

6: Please walk me through how Pawn gets lynched over Colin, because I really don't see it.

Spoiler: show

sprityo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:27 am
Open Question:

What's the Singular biggest reason to Town read the other two players

And what is the Singular biggest reason to read them Mafia?

I'll be doing mine

You're town because you're the quiet obvious mislynch bait in a final 3.

Radishes is town because Rabbit and Pawn both read him town, and then Pawn got killed.

You're scum because all your major contributions are information collection, not analysis.

Radishes is scum because... in Pawn-lynch world, because he's not dead. In Pawn-kill world, because he's a much more plausible partner to Epi than you.

You're scum because you've been lurking? Feels like a bad reason.

- You're scum because you made a big show of "oh no I'm getting lynched" at the end of yesterday, and now you're confidently assuring me that you were never in any danger.

Spoiler: show

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:32 am
Let's start with me.

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:38 am
sprityo
Frankly, it really goes against my instincts to be voting you right now. Radishes is inconsistent and wobbly, pushed me for stupid reasons, and accepted that the spiny post cleared me way too easily. I think, in my heart of hearts, even as I am voting you, that he's the scum here. I'm stomping on it 'cause I'm at lylo and therefore I am wrong.

sprityo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:49 am
So between the option of Radishes who I haven’t tried to scrutinize. The man who was drawing a lot of different view points from everyone yesterday (and I think day 2 as well?). Points of interest I remember about Radishes was his and Pawn’s “You’re copying me” type deal with reads

By all means I would be the one lynched here since Evenstar and Radihes have the same reads. But if mafia is picking who goes where...then that would be what they want and too easy. I’m going to apply Occam’s Razor and go with that’s the case.

Radishes seemed to have pretty consistent reads from what I can remember as well. As in they didn’t change if at all. Evenstar is going to be a bag of cats to dissect
So the two real points against me appear to be my 'wobbly and inconsistent' play (what does that even mean?) and my 'pretty consistent reads' (which isn't true).

My play has been the same since the beginning; any wobbliness comes from three things:
(a) adapting my gameplay to the non-voting/non-rereading mechanics
(b) unfamiliarity with me/my meta
(c) the fact I never truly let go of my scum!Evenstar read and was trying to work around it

My reads did change:
(i) Jack went from mild SR to mild TR to strong SR (bottom 3) to strong TR
(ii) Colin went from TR to a bottom 3 SR
(iii) Epi went from SR to TR
(iv) Sprityo went from SR to uncertain TR
...etc. Rabbit was a strong TR throughout, but beyond that everything was in flux to some extent.
What I mean by "wobbly and inconsistent" is that you don't seem to really believe your own reads.

The fact that your reads have shifted over time is not inherently a bad thing, and in fact too-static reads are often a scumtell: what I take issue with is how your reads have shifted. I expect to be able to understand your reasoning for why certain people are town or scum, since we come from a similar environment and you claim to have some idea how my brain works and how to pitch me a case, but everything you've personally come up with has left me cold.

Exhibit A: Me
You called me scum D2&3 based on my late D1 vote, then said you were having doubts early in D3 and used that to justify accepting Spiny's post as a clear on me. When me and Pawn called you on it, you backtracked hastily. Today you're maintaining that your heavy scumread of me remained strong for the whole day. So what you said about having doubts on D3 was a lie, then?

Exhibit B: Jack
You scumread Jack early in D3, putting him in your bottom 3 IIRC. He remained there for some time, and then I made my post about how the current PoE felt bad and I thought Jack, Colin, Dom, Sprityo were all bad cases and that Jack in particular was ML bait because he has no defenders at all. You seemed vaguely convinced by this and moved off your scumread, but returned to it later in the day for reasons that aren't really clear to me, and AFAIK that was where you left off. Now you're saying that you reversed your position again and hard-townread Jack? I don't understand the reasoning behind your flip-flops here.

Exhibit C: Pawn, Epi, Rabbit
Throughout the entire day you were "townreading" Pawn with a deeply uncertain tone. I don't recall if you actually flipped on him when I pushed him, but I definitely don't recall you defending him... and checking my spreadsheet here, it looks like one of your final 3 options was Pawn.

Epi, on the other hand, you entered the day scumreading... and then slowly slid into a townread based IIRC on his push of Rabbit, which to my eyes was excessive and unfair. You did this while townreading Rabbit, and made no attempt to break up the conflict between two of your townreads. It feels extremely convenient to me that you slid into townreading Epi in this fashion.

Furthermore, when Pawn and Epi were scumreading each other, you stood aside and let them duke it out without significantly contributing one way or the other. I can see a towny motive for this if both your reads of them were highly uncertain, but my recorded votes say you had Pawn in your bottom 3 and Epi not at this point, so that seems unlikely. I think you did make a brief post about Pawn "slanking" or "coasting" at one point, but I certainly don't recall any major contributions from you at EoD. (Unless it was you who was tinfoiling a Pawn/me scumteam? I'm fairly sure that was earlier in the day anyway.)

In Summary:
My general impression of you is that your scumread of me is your only controversial opinion. You slid towards "Jack is town" following me; you slid towards "Pawn is scum" following Epi. You claim to have only townread Pawn in the first place based on the fact that Rabbit thought he was town. You backed off your position that I was scum very quickly when Spiny's post came up, and then backed right back onto it just as quickly when I called you out on it.

You try not to get involved in conflicts in the thread, and are particularly likely to ambiguously-townread strong players like Epi and Pawn. It seems important to you that perceptive people like Epi not have reason to look at you too close: while I'm also known as a strong player, it's a lot easier to brush off suspicion from me than from someone like Epignosis, which makes your persistent scumread of me slot quite neatly into a world where I'm being framed.

As for your analysis content, I recall one solid analysis post at the beginning of D2 regarding the votals, and thereafter your reads have felt confused, vague and underspecified. I've had to prod you for reasoning multiple times, and I've rarely been satisfied with what I get out of you in response. It's also notable that you have significant falloff in contributions over time: Sprityo posts less than you, but they're much more consistent, and there's significant evidence of real heavy lifting behind the scenes. Given that most of what they've done is bullwork, this is a weaker towntell than I'd like, but they score points for getting louder in lylo while you seem to be becoming quieter.
Top

Spoiler: show

Evenstar:
1: We've both played on MU, and are therefore more similar than an MU player and a Syndicate player. I expect you to be more legible to me than Epignosis, not less.

2: If you don't claim to know how my brain works, why is so much of your case against me based on your meta read of me? You're saying you don't understand me in the same breath that you're asserting I clearly did X, Y, Z. You acknowledge that your argument based on nightkills is heavily wine-based, but you still devote several paragraphs to it. Is this not an assertion that you know how my mind works well enough that others should listen?

You don't know me, Radish. You know my reputation.

3: Oh, so it's kosher for you to toss in a comment like "*coughfightingforsurvivalcough*" in your counterargument, but it's not okay for me to describe your actions in the ways that I percieved them? It was a hasty backpedal, and I was not the only player to call you out for it.

4: If you believe in your team so much, why are you trusting your gut over the single player in this game who knows me best, who just ate the nightkill?

5: I still don't understand your handling of the Spiny post, and I'm really looking forward to a proper answer there.

6: That discussion was in D3. I was the one who prompted Pawn to take a look at his PoE, because overnight I'd developed the feeling that we'd dunked town in Nova because it was too easy. You didn't prompt Pawn to do jack shit: you did take a look at Jack at around that point because I and Pawn were re-evaluating him. Wishing I had the thread right now.

7: Sure, I'll accept that. Now go through the reasons why you settled on Jack above Pawn again, slowly. Really spell it out for me, because I don't see how you can claim that Pawn deserved to die more than Jack. That is a terrible read.

8: Okay, you were townreading Epi at the start of the day. The question remains: Why didn't you try to break up the obviously unproductive argument between two of your townreads?

9: Yes, it's quite convenient how you were absent for EoD.

10: I read Jack as town and then you read Jack as town. Epi reads Pawn as scum and then you read Pawn as scum. I literally cannot think of an original read you've confidently expressed: even your scumread of me was originally voiced by Hyena IIRC.

11: It is extremely convenient that you have just happened to not be in the thread during every major argument. There's been what, five or six of them now? Nutella vs me, Dom & Epi vs Rabbit, Pawn vs Epi, LLD vs. Epi, etc, etc. At some point, this stops looking like limited playtime and starts looking like conflict avoidance.

12: No, they haven't. That's the point. You spent 90% of D3 going "ennnnhhhhh town I guess" in Pawn's direction at roughly the same volume, and only actually changed your read of him after he'd had major interactions with both Epi and me. What were you doing with that read? How were you trying to make it more settled? "Ambiguous" is a word I chose carefully, because it did not read to me as you waffling or being unable to read those players: it read to me as you not really trying to read those players. You've very much relied on other people to go out and do the real investigative work for you.

13: Fair enough regarding the difficulty of producing content in that thread environment. I would still like you to address the fall-off though.

14: Could have sworn I pinged you like three times for reasons and updated readslists in D3. It's possible that Pawn got to it before I did.

15: Yes, I am in fact trying to scrape up every single even mildly scummy thing you've done and throw them in your face, just like I'm trying to do the same for Sprityo. The fact that there are many, many more of them for you than for Sprityo seems pretty indicative to me.

Radishes Wrote:
1: Okay. Maybe. I don't think this is a productive discussion, though.

2:I agree I know only your reputation. I've said as much. But my case is built on more than just a supposed meta read. It's about your contributions and tone as a player, regardless of the name.

3: Sure it's okay - snide comments are part of the fun of scumhunting! I'm just going to point it out when I see you doing it.

If you wish to characterise it that way, I can't stop you.

4: I trusted them for two Day phases. That's a good amount of time to trust Pawn et al. And yet here you are, still not NKed whilst the player you say knows you best is.

5: I gave one.

6:Then you just don't remember Pawn and I talking about it in D2. No worries, it's tough without the thread.

7: Already did. I listed my best reason for townreading everyone, and for Pawn all I got was 'I like a lot of what he says'. For Jack I had specifics about his tone, his reads, etc. Pawn ended up in my bottom 3 by PoE. I've said this about three times now.

8: Because, again, I wasn't here to do so.

9: Lmao, just admit this is not a point against me.

10:Just blatantly false or exaggerated. You're constructing narratives as you remember from your perspective. You've shown no real indication that you've actually read any of my posts until this round.

11:They're called timezones.

12: This is your narrative and you're sticking to it I guess.

13: Fall off in content? I came in expecting to be able to re-read D1. When I couldn't, I struggled to adapt. I think a lot of us did.

14: Just checked my pings and I have none from you in D3. Which, tbh, seems wrong - I thought there was one.

15: But you're scraping to the point of using my timezone or real-life schedule against me. That's scraping a bit low in the proverbial barrel.

Evenstar:
1: Yep, I've been slanking, I agree. I have made no secret of my deep dislike of this game's secret-voting mechanics, and frankly that makes me not wanna play the game. Lexi got hit even harder than I did: I think she something like 7-posted D2. Does that mean she's scum?

2: I happen to enjoy running weird games like this: naturally my thoughts turned to "how was this designed?" And if you don't expect me to be dumping my stream of consciousness into the game, IDK who you think you're playing with.

3: I would like to note the hypocrisy of your complaining about my not being aggressive enough while simultaneously complaining about how I'm being unfair to you by bringing up things you think are trivial. Not to mention this is literally just a restatement of 1.

4: Pawn and I have an understanding that this is just our meta. I get it looks weird, but this literally happens in every game we're together in. In Dragon Ball M(afia) I went full bulldog on him: I outed him as the Gunsmith and then got mislynched for my troubles.

Yeah.

5: Blah blah D2. Yes, I slanked through D2. You have repeated this argument three times.

6: I guess the Sprityo point's worth addressing. Dom and Colin were not doing significant bullwork. Sprityo was: when he appeared in the thread he generally had something real to say, while the others tended more towards fluff (Michelle, Colin) or directionless aggro (Dom). I do recall saying I wanted to nail you to a wall if Sprit flipped green, but that's because I-believe-it-was-Epi asked "why do you care about Radishes' read of Sprityo?"

You had been fence-sitting and pushing Sprityo from a distance, without voting: I wanted you to publicly commit to the lynch you were sponsoring. You didn't.

7: Still the same accusation from 1. Get better and more varied material.

8: Yep, vote looks bad, not contesting that.

9: Wine argument, requires me to have killed both Nook and Pawn while they were deeply pocketed.

10:

Seriously, you think that I thought you read Sprityo as in the same tier of scumminess as me? You've been on my ass since like D2 by your own admission, and you're tunneling me despite both Pawn and Spiny's better judgment. If you're town, I think we just lose at this point. I don't see how I could possibly convince you given all the evidence you're selectively ignoring.

Spoiler: show

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:20 am

Evenstar wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:35 am
I'm going to assume the scum can at least pick which of their own goes to the next level.

This is an interesting thought. I've wondered the same.

What scum team chooses Sprityo to go 'all the way'? He's collectively scumread by many players. Unless his partner was, like, Colin, Sprit is not their ace in the hole. (No offence Sprit, that's not a comment on your ability so much as on your position this game.)

Also, coming back to this: Sprityo is damn near an IC at this point because he's too visibly unskilled to have gotten here on purpose. This makes him extremely unlikely to get lynched, and therefore, paradoxically, a great selection to put in a F3. 112 lurked out three days in WC1 by looking too harmless/not-on-the-ball to be scum.

So yeah, I'm paranoid. Doubly so because Sprityo definitely has some skill: he's not a poor player, he's a competent-but-quiet one.

Notable posts by Master Radishes Day 4

Spoiler: show

Let's start with me.

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:38 am
sprityo
Frankly, it really goes against my instincts to be voting you right now. Radishes is inconsistent and wobbly, pushed me for stupid reasons, and accepted that the spiny post cleared me way too easily. I think, in my heart of hearts, even as I am voting you, that he's the scum here. I'm stomping on it 'cause I'm at lylo and therefore I am wrong.

sprityo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:49 am
So between the option of Radishes who I haven’t tried to scrutinize. The man who was drawing a lot of different view points from everyone yesterday (and I think day 2 as well?). Points of interest I remember about Radishes was his and Pawn’s “You’re copying me” type deal with reads

By all means I would be the one lynched here since Evenstar and Radihes have the same reads. But if mafia is picking who goes where...then that would be what they want and too easy. I’m going to apply Occam’s Razor and go with that’s the case.

Radishes seemed to have pretty consistent reads from what I can remember as well. As in they didn’t change if at all. Evenstar is going to be a bag of cats to dissect
So the two real points against me appear to be my 'wobbly and inconsistent' play (what does that even mean?) and my 'pretty consistent reads' (which isn't true).

My play has been the same since the beginning; any wobbliness comes from three things:
(a) adapting my gameplay to the non-voting/non-rereading mechanics
(b) unfamiliarity with me/my meta
(c) the fact I never truly let go of my scum!Evenstar read and was trying to work around it

My reads did change:
(i) Jack went from mild SR to mild TR to strong SR (bottom 3) to strong TR
(ii) Colin went from TR to a bottom 3 SR
(iii) Epi went from SR to TR
(iv) Sprityo went from SR to uncertain TR
...etc. Rabbit was a strong TR throughout, but beyond that everything was in flux to some extent.

Spoiler: show

Aaaaand a bunch more posts.

It's 6:30am here and I need to leave for work soon. It's a full day of teaching for me, no real breaks start to finish, so I'm going to have to keep it to cliffs notes versions for now. We have a day and a half still.


Evenstar - everything I'm seeing looks the opposite of the town!Eva I've seen. I've never played with her, and it's different to watch from spec chat, but she looks...uncertain. Also, the Nook and potentially Pawn kills fit her meta perfectly. And lest we forget her D1 vote at 3 mins remaining nearly prevented Drago being lynched. The big point against this theory is if Spiny spewed her Mason, but without access to the main thread I can't check.

Sprityo - has been laying low and is now suddenly here and active, which is nagl for anyone. D1-D3 posting left me uninspired. Emotional outbursts can be faked. The big point against this case is that he's also shown a propensity to be much more insightful than his low-posting would indicate, such as countering theories with logical points others had missed, and how this round his biggest post ^^ showed me he's been paying much more attention than I realised.


I won't 'hide' the fact that I am still leaning towards Evenstar as scum. But I suppose in F3 due diligence is needed, so I'll duly and diligently try to see the opposite world.

Spoiler: show

sprityo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:27 am
Open Question:

What's the Singular biggest reason to Town read the other two players

And what is the Singular biggest reason to read them Mafia?

I'll be doing mine
Kind of did this above ^ but will do it again in brief.

Town!Eva = Spinyboo's Mason as per *that* post
Scum!Eva = overall passive and uncertain play

Town!Sprit = insightful posts that show townie thought process
Scum!Sprit = macro-level play is uninspiring; has been laying low

Spoiler: show

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:28 am
Radishes, uncertainty means I don't have TMI. Go look at the ridiculous confidence with which I pushed the X Cult thing, for a start.

The vote is a bad look, I agree. I wouldn't read into the kills like that though, because I know Lexi, Mac and you all have enough meta on me to frame me. Also, do you really think I would let both Lexi and Pawn persist in the same game with me for more than one daycycle? That's seriously bad juju, man.

Eh. You had confidence in the Finale and were town. You had confidence of D1 in this game. The uncertainty I could forgive on D2 for awhile because, you know, it took us by surprise, but aside from a brief attack on Pawn you’ve come across as very passive, and that is not a look I’m used to seeing on you (with admittedly a low amount of meta). I think ‘passive’ is better than ‘uncertain’ here as a term, though.

As for who you’d kill and what you’d do, that’s WIFOM. But to entertain the discussion for a moment: LLD is clearly a non-factor this game, and Pawn was deep in your pocket until yesterday. The other known kill was Nook, who you know from the Finale, so 'fits' who you might choose, as I do believe you're the type of mafia who kills players they think could be dangerous for them personally.

And one of the reasons I think Pawn is the likely MK is because he’s exactly who you wouldn’t want here right now if you were scum. Whereas scum!Sprit keeps him because he’s mislynch bait and there’s no meta, and scum!Sprit MKs Epi or Dom or someone who knows him better and may be able to find him.

I never kill Pawn (or colin) for the same reason, since no one knows my meta so I’m mainly concerned about having viable bait if I’m scum. I consider killing Rabbit or Epi, I'd hazard.

But this is all WIFOM more than anything, and truthfully isn’t a strong piece of evidence for me, so feel free to ignore this thread of discussion. It just…fits, is all.

Spoiler: show

sprityo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:02 pm

Master Radishes wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:32 am
My reads did change:
(i) Jack went from mild SR to mild TR to strong SR (bottom 3) to strong TR
(ii) Colin went from TR to a bottom 3 SR
(iii) Epi went from SR to TR
(iv) Sprityo went from SR to uncertain TR

So do you remember the reasons for these changes? or at least when they happened?

Jack – on D1 I didn’t like his lack of contribution, but he engaged with Eva/Nutella in a way I felt was townie, hence my strong TR (which no one at the time liked; I got a lot of flack for it). His D1 vote was one I pegged as a potential scum vote if there was a campaign to save Drago. Throughout D2 I felt Jack did little again, and by PoE he slipped down to my mushy middle 3. Yesterday I felt his contributions improved and he actually was playing the game. He was also completely different from everyone on reads and style, which makes me think town more than scum; he wasn’t trying to be blendy, but ended up being so. I think I had another reason to like him but I forget now. I ended with him as an upper mid-3.

Colin – barely remember Rej in that slot, but when Colin entered D2 I felt there was some attempt to delve in to the game without worrying about how he appeared. I acknowledged him as a PoE candidate, but kept him at that until D3 due to lack of content. When I began to seriously ISO people realised I had zero reason to read him as...anything. I saw no townie posts, no scum posts. Just blah posts. So by end of D3 he slipped to my bottom 3. What I had read as townie nonchalance I now was reading as scum blend-alance.

Epi – I put him in a ‘potential scum vote on D1’ slot. I also accused him of trying to bury the thread with all his analysis, much of which I felt was a bit useless. He took issue with all this and reasoned with me at beginning of D2. I liked our interaction and kept him in the Mid-3 for awhile (not higher since I knew he had a rep). His attack on Rabbit felt to me like a dog who felt he had a bone in a townie way, and he seemed a bit put out when the doublevoter thing put his idea to rest. He had pushed hard and without regard for how he came across. He also put in more effort than most others in our various levels, which is not a towntell per se but buys him some goodwill considering how I've felt the D2/D3 threads were rather lacking it despite the postcount being reasonable. I think scum ride out that thread uncertainty rather than raise the effort level.

Sprityo – there was a D1 post I felt was bad, and many others agreed at the time, but there wasn’t enough to build more of a case there. In D2 I again felt his posts lacked substance, and by PoE he floated around my bottom 3. By D3 I began to re-evaluate, as in ISOing him I felt there was nothing particularly scummy to find, and in turn the (now much discussed) ‘points of logic’ pointed in his favour. He remained in my PoE, but was climbing out of it.


Additions:

Dom - went from null (lack of content) to slight TR (for not giving af how he looked as he finally entered the thread) to slightly firmer TR (for having some decent points hidden amongst his dickish-- I mean aggression.)

Iaafr - strong TR throughout based on style and substance. I get how his style rubs people the wrong way, but I was used to it from MU spec chat and so saw through it fairly easily. Purest one of all, IMO.



And with further detail, since I see him being discussed later in this thread:

Pawn – He and I were on the same page so much I did worry about a deepwolf and said as much, but otherwise felt he was very townie. When Eva attacked him I felt his responses were cogent, and did not shift my opinion much there when all was said and done. But at the end of D3 I listed my best reason for townreading everyone, and I realised I didn’t really have a better reason to TR him than ‘I like what he says’ (I don’t remember exactly what I worded it as). After considering others, e.g. Dom, Epi, Jack, etc, he ended up in my bottom 3 a bit by default, as I had better reasons to TR others, but was not necessarily SRing him, if that makes sense. I admit also to a touch of paranoia (I called him a deepwolf way before anyone else started to SR him!). But I can’t specify anything more with regards to that, I think.

Spoiler: show

Geezus Eva – sorry if this is a backhanded compliment, but that may be your best post of the game. THIS is the player I’ve been expecting but not seeing. *cough*fightingforsurvival*cough*

I mean, it’s got a lot wrong with it, but points for trying anyway.

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:01 pm
I expect to be able to understand your reasoning for why certain people are town or scum, since we come from a similar environment and you claim to have some idea how my brain works and how to pitch me a case, but everything you've personally come up with has left me cold.

Do we come from a similar environment? I don’t know that we do. I rarely play away from my homesite and I’ve not played ‘competitive’ Mafia (as it were) in years. I just happened to watch Champs this year (to cheer on 112) and JJJ twisted my arm to join (he and I go back to Season 2).

I also don’t claim to know how your brain works. I only claim to have watched a couple games of yours, heard your rep, discussed you in spec chat, etc. Your style of playing is, I believe, actually quite different from mine.

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:01 pm
You called me scum D2&3 based on my late D1 vote, then said you were having doubts early in D3 and used that to justify accepting Spiny's post as a clear on me. When me and Pawn called you on it, you backtracked hastily. Today you're maintaining that your heavy scumread of me remained strong for the whole day. So what you said about having doubts on D3 was a lie, then?

Creating narratives won’t work on me, fyi. I did not use anything to ‘justify’ anything. And I certainly did not backtrack ‘hastily’. (Who was saying things about adverbs being scumtells? I like the theory, I’ve decided.) There’s been no lie about my read on you.

Let’s try again.

After townreading you D1 for a generally solid tone, your vote pinged me, and I put your name forward as an option. Iaafr, Pawn, Epi, and even Jack all shut me down. Look, say what you want about me, but I’m a team player – if my team tells me I’m wrong, I’ve learned to listen. Now, I’m not calling all of them villagers, but certainly at the time I read most of them as such, and still do to various extents. So I shrugged and backed off.

As is natural, yes, doubts crept in. And I did try to recalibrate my view of the game and create a town!Eva world. I didn’t really get anywhere, though, because I couldn’t get it out of my mind. I hoped the dream levels would re-combine or something and I would get different opinions and/or not be in a level with you. (And now here we are. Sigh.)

In D3, Rabbit brought up the Spiny post. As a general rule of thumb, I always err on the side of believing claims, even if I have doubts. So yes, I latched on to that as a means to force me to stop tunneling. And still no one else was expressing doubt about you anyway, so I did feel on an island. And I simply don’t have the time or energy in this game to make everyone swim to my island. (Not sure that metaphor made sense…) So I let it be and continued to focus on looking for scum through other methods.


I’ll continue this train of thought in a future post. Let’s continue responding to your points.

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:01 pm
You scumread Jack early in D3, putting him in your bottom 3 IIRC. He remained there for some time, and then I made my post about how the current PoE felt bad and I thought Jack, Colin, Dom, Sprityo were all bad cases and that Jack in particular was ML bait because he has no defenders at all. You seemed vaguely convinced by this and moved off your scumread, but returned to it later in the day for reasons that aren't really clear to me, and AFAIK that was where you left off. Now you're saying that you reversed your position again and hard-townread Jack? I don't understand the reasoning behind your flip-flops here.

You have misremembered and/or misinterpreted.

First of all, where do you get the idea any post you made changed my mind on anything? You were not the first to suggest the low-posting PoE felt bad; in fact, I was on that as early as D2. I had a brief discussion with Pawn about it. (He basically shrugged at it and said it was the best PoE for now.)

My read on Jack has bounced like a yo-yo, that’s true, but it’s been doing that all game because he posted so much whilst saying so little and refused to engage in conversations or really explain his reads in more than a brief sentence. I can’t read that style well, so my read has bounced around. As explained in an above post directed at Sprityo, I did a list near the end of D3 and found decent reasons to TR Jack, whereas my SR had always been for fairly lazy ‘he’s not doing much’ reasons.

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:01 pm
Throughout the entire day you were "townreading" Pawn with a deeply uncertain tone. I don't recall if you actually flipped on him when I pushed him, but I definitely don't recall you defending him... and checking my spreadsheet here, it looks like one of your final 3 options was Pawn.

Explained above to Sprit. Pawn’s posts showed a similar thought process to mine, so that made me a bit concerned but overall made me TR him. I wasn’t around when you pushed him, and concluded it hadn’t changed my opinion. He ended up in my final 3 by PoE as I didn’t find a better reason to TR him than I did for a couple others who had been hovering down my list, e.g. Jack.

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:01 pm
Epi, on the other hand, you entered the day scumreading... and then slowly slid into a townread based IIRC on his push of Rabbit, which to my eyes was excessive and unfair. You did this while townreading Rabbit, and made no attempt to break up the conflict between two of your townreads. It feels extremely convenient to me that you slid into townreading Epi in this fashion.

False. Epi was a town read all of D3. It was strengthened by the Rabbit thing, that's true. But it was D2 I started the day uncertain on Epi, and had changed by the end of the phase.

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:01 pm
I think you did make a brief post about Pawn "slanking" or "coasting" at one point, but I certainly don't recall any major contributions from you at EoD. (Unless it was you who was tinfoiling a Pawn/me scumteam? I'm fairly sure that was earlier in the day anyway.)

It was me, but you’re right it was earlier.

There were no major contributions at EoD because I wasn’t here.

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:01 pm
You slid towards "Jack is town" following me; you slid towards "Pawn is scum" following Epi. You claim to have only townread Pawn in the first place based on the fact that Rabbit thought he was town. You backed off your position that I was scum very quickly when Spiny's post came up, and then backed right back onto it just as quickly when I called you out on it.

All of these are false. You're either trying to create a narrative about me being a follower, or you misremember my posts/the timing of them.

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:01 pm
You try not to get involved in conflicts in the thread, and are particularly likely to ambiguously-townread strong players like Epi and Pawn. It seems important to you that perceptive people like Epi not have reason to look at you too close: while I'm also known as a strong player, it's a lot easier to brush off suspicion from me than from someone like Epignosis, which makes your persistent scumread of me slot quite neatly into a world where I'm being framed.

That's another nice narrative, but also not true. I would agree I’m not a ‘confrontational’ player, but at the same time all the ‘conflicts’ have happened when I haven’t been in the thread. So I haven't exactly been able to get involved.

You could categorise my TRs of Epi and Pawn as ambiguous, sure. Or perhaps 'uncertain'? Weren’t you just defending my accusations of your ‘uncertainty’ by pointing out that’s a towntell? My reads of Epi and Pawn have fluctuated between varying levels of certainty, and I see nothing wrong with that.

(Also, for the record, I’d rather Epi come after me than you. You’re scary when you want to be.)

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:01 pm
As for your analysis content, I recall one solid analysis post at the beginning of D2 regarding the votals, and thereafter your reads have felt confused, vague and underspecified.

This is…fair. Or, rather, I feel that’s not the case, but enough people have said something like this to me so far that I can accept I’m not making myself as clear as I need to be. It’s a bit unfair to attack my lack of analysis, though, considering there’s very little to analyse without past threads, and I could easily say the same about you.

Also, I love ‘votals’. Haven’t seen that one before.

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:01 pm
I've had to prod you for reasoning multiple times,

You have done no such thing. You’ve engaged me about twice in this game. I was paying attention because I was waiting for a post such as this and never got it.
Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:01 pm
but they score points for getting louder in lylo while you seem to be becoming quieter.
Completely unfair. My timezone is different from yours and I’ve explained that today was particularly busy for me. I have about 3 hours max per day on for this game, and a lot of that has been spent simply reading up. As for this round, it started at 11pm for me, and so I’ve had all of one hour this morning so far.


---

My concern with your reasoning here is that so much seems predicated on things that are twisted, misrepresented, or in some cases simply untrue. Suggesting my reads have felt ‘confused, vague, and underspecified’ is the best thing about it, as you’re not the only player so far to feel that way, so clearly I’ve not done a good enough job projecting my thoughts. But essentially everything else feels more like you’re scraping the barrel for reasons to cast doubt on me in any way you can.

Spoiler: show

Geezus Eva – sorry if this is a backhanded compliment, but that may be your best post of the game. THIS is the player I’ve been expecting but not seeing. *cough*fightingforsurvival*cough*

I mean, it’s got a lot wrong with it, but points for trying anyway.
Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:01 pm
I expect to be able to understand your reasoning for why certain people are town or scum, since we come from a similar environment and you claim to have some idea how my brain works and how to pitch me a case, but everything you've personally come up with has left me cold.
Do we come from a similar environment? I don’t know that we do. I rarely play away from my homesite and I’ve not played ‘competitive’ Mafia (as it were) in years. I just happened to watch Champs this year (to cheer on 112) and JJJ twisted my arm to join (he and I go back to Season 2).

I also don’t claim to know how your brain works. I only claim to have watched a couple games of yours, heard your rep, discussed you in spec chat, etc. Your style of playing is, I believe, actually quite different from mine.
Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:01 pm
You called me scum D2&3 based on my late D1 vote, then said you were having doubts early in D3 and used that to justify accepting Spiny's post as a clear on me. When me and Pawn called you on it, you backtracked hastily. Today you're maintaining that your heavy scumread of me remained strong for the whole day. So what you said about having doubts on D3 was a lie, then?
Creating narratives won’t work on me, fyi. I did not use anything to ‘justify’ anything. And I certainly did not backtrack ‘hastily’. (Who was saying things about adverbs being scumtells? I like the theory, I’ve decided.) There’s been no lie about my read on you.

Let’s try again.

After townreading you D1 for a generally solid tone, your vote pinged me, and I put your name forward as an option. Iaafr, Pawn, Epi, and even Jack all shut me down. Look, say what you want about me, but I’m a team player – if my team tells me I’m wrong, I’ve learned to listen. Now, I’m not calling all of them villagers, but certainly at the time I read most of them as such, and still do to various extents. So I shrugged and backed off.

As is natural, yes, doubts crept in. And I did try to recalibrate my view of the game and create a town!Eva world. I didn’t really get anywhere, though, because I couldn’t get it out of my mind. I hoped the dream levels would re-combine or something and I would get different opinions and/or not be in a level with you. (And now here we are. Sigh.)

In D3, Rabbit brought up the Spiny post. As a general rule of thumb, I always err on the side of believing claims, even if I have doubts. So yes, I latched on to that as a means to force me to stop tunneling. And still no one else was expressing doubt about you anyway, so I did feel on an island. And I simply don’t have the time or energy in this game to make everyone swim to my island. (Not sure that metaphor made sense…) So I let it be and continued to focus on looking for scum through other methods.


I’ll continue this train of thought in a future post. Let’s continue responding to your points.
Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:01 pm
You scumread Jack early in D3, putting him in your bottom 3 IIRC. He remained there for some time, and then I made my post about how the current PoE felt bad and I thought Jack, Colin, Dom, Sprityo were all bad cases and that Jack in particular was ML bait because he has no defenders at all. You seemed vaguely convinced by this and moved off your scumread, but returned to it later in the day for reasons that aren't really clear to me, and AFAIK that was where you left off. Now you're saying that you reversed your position again and hard-townread Jack? I don't understand the reasoning behind your flip-flops here.
You have misremembered and/or misinterpreted.

First of all, where do you get the idea any post you made changed my mind on anything? You were not the first to suggest the low-posting PoE felt bad; in fact, I was on that as early as D2. I had a brief discussion with Pawn about it. (He basically shrugged at it and said it was the best PoE for now.)

My read on Jack has bounced like a yo-yo, that’s true, but it’s been doing that all game because he posted so much whilst saying so little and refused to engage in conversations or really explain his reads in more than a brief sentence. I can’t read that style well, so my read has bounced around. As explained in an above post directed at Sprityo, I did a list near the end of D3 and found decent reasons to TR Jack, whereas my SR had always been for fairly lazy ‘he’s not doing much’ reasons.
Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:01 pm
Throughout the entire day you were "townreading" Pawn with a deeply uncertain tone. I don't recall if you actually flipped on him when I pushed him, but I definitely don't recall you defending him... and checking my spreadsheet here, it looks like one of your final 3 options was Pawn.
Explained above to Sprit. Pawn’s posts showed a similar thought process to mine, so that made me a bit concerned but overall made me TR him. I wasn’t around when you pushed him, and concluded it hadn’t changed my opinion. He ended up in my final 3 by PoE as I didn’t find a better reason to TR him than I did for a couple others who had been hovering down my list, e.g. Jack.
Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:01 pm
Epi, on the other hand, you entered the day scumreading... and then slowly slid into a townread based IIRC on his push of Rabbit, which to my eyes was excessive and unfair. You did this while townreading Rabbit, and made no attempt to break up the conflict between two of your townreads. It feels extremely convenient to me that you slid into townreading Epi in this fashion.
False. Epi was a town read all of D3. It was strengthened by the Rabbit thing, that's true. But it was D2 I started the day uncertain on Epi, and had changed by the end of the phase.
Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:01 pm
I think you did make a brief post about Pawn "slanking" or "coasting" at one point, but I certainly don't recall any major contributions from you at EoD. (Unless it was you who was tinfoiling a Pawn/me scumteam? I'm fairly sure that was earlier in the day anyway.)
It was me, but you’re right it was earlier.

There were no major contributions at EoD because I wasn’t here.
Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:01 pm
You slid towards "Jack is town" following me; you slid towards "Pawn is scum" following Epi. You claim to have only townread Pawn in the first place based on the fact that Rabbit thought he was town. You backed off your position that I was scum very quickly when Spiny's post came up, and then backed right back onto it just as quickly when I called you out on it.
All of these are false. You're either trying to create a narrative about me being a follower, or you misremember my posts/the timing of them.
Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:01 pm
You try not to get involved in conflicts in the thread, and are particularly likely to ambiguously-townread strong players like Epi and Pawn. It seems important to you that perceptive people like Epi not have reason to look at you too close: while I'm also known as a strong player, it's a lot easier to brush off suspicion from me than from someone like Epignosis, which makes your persistent scumread of me slot quite neatly into a world where I'm being framed.
That's another nice narrative, but also not true. I would agree I’m not a ‘confrontational’ player, but at the same time all the ‘conflicts’ have happened when I haven’t been in the thread. So I haven't exactly been able to get involved.

You could categorise my TRs of Epi and Pawn as ambiguous, sure. Or perhaps 'uncertain'? Weren’t you just defending my accusations of your ‘uncertainty’ by pointing out that’s a towntell? My reads of Epi and Pawn have fluctuated between varying levels of certainty, and I see nothing wrong with that.

(Also, for the record, I’d rather Epi come after me than you. You’re scary when you want to be.)

Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:01 pm
As for your analysis content, I recall one solid analysis post at the beginning of D2 regarding the votals, and thereafter your reads have felt confused, vague and underspecified.
This is…fair. Or, rather, I feel that’s not the case, but enough people have said something like this to me so far that I can accept I’m not making myself as clear as I need to be. It’s a bit unfair to attack my lack of analysis, though, considering there’s very little to analyse without past threads, and I could easily say the same about you.

Also, I love ‘votals’. Haven’t seen that one before.
Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:01 pm
I've had to prod you for reasoning multiple times,
You have done no such thing. You’ve engaged me about twice in this game. I was paying attention because I was waiting for a post such as this and never got it.
Evenstar wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:01 pm
but they score points for getting louder in lylo while you seem to be becoming quieter.
Completely unfair. My timezone is different from yours and I’ve explained that today was particularly busy for me. I have about 3 hours max per day on for this game, and a lot of that has been spent simply reading up. As for this round, it started at 11pm for me, and so I’ve had all of one hour this morning so far.


---

My concern with your reasoning here is that so much seems predicated on things that are twisted, misrepresented, or in some cases simply untrue. Suggesting my reads have felt ‘confused, vague, and underspecified’ is the best thing about it, as you’re not the only player so far to feel that way, so clearly I’ve not done a good enough job projecting my thoughts. But essentially everything else feels more like you’re scraping the barrel for reasons to cast doubt on me in any way you can.

Spoiler: show

The case against Sprityo

There’s obviously less here, since Sprit has posted less. But let’s see what we got.

--D1 he made an opening post that was basically fluff, e.g. ‘Oh these two people are fighting, I’ll stay out of that’ with no analytical content or anything. I called him on it and several agreed, and Sprit’s response was to basically say he hadn’t intended to be analytical, just a catch up for himself. I still know why he needed to *post* it then.

--D2 he was one of the slankers, and was generally ignored until closer to the end. I think I was the one to first raise this. Sprit…again didn’t really have much of a response. But as I recall it, Nova and Sprit became the two real wagons by EoD2. My sense of the thread at that point was that it was 50/50. The fact Sprit remained could suggest the scum voted Nova (presumably as a bloc, since it’s private). This is interesting, as if it was a v/v situation why did they choose to help lynch the bigger slanker? It could indicate Sprit was a wolf wagon in this situation.

--Sprit had that emotional outburst; that’s a post that is easily faked. He’s certainly seemed calmer since.

--In D3 there was more activity, but the quality of contribution remained variable. Aside from a couple insightful moments, which are somewhat NAI anyway, he coasted through without ever really being under the heaviest of fire.

--His start this Day has been better. Although now that Eva and I are going at it, he seems content to recede to the background again.



Unfortunately that’s about all I remember from Sprit. And a lot of it relies on speculation.

There’s a very plausible world where Sprit is mafia here – it doesn’t take much to imagine it.

[sprityo]

[mention]Michelle[/mention] see above

[Elephant]

I'm so fucking annoyed yet so relieved that people are back. But seriously, did you guys really just send us inactive players? WTF.

We lynched iaafr yesterday in case ya’ll got lonely.

Jack, how do you know you lynched iaafr? Were you allowed to put your final votes in the thread instead of PMing them?

Our votes were public on the last day, at least at DL3.

Have these polls been posted here?

Ohhh ok I did not understand that, thanks.

[Michelle]

Re: Inception [Subconscious Phase 2]
Report this post

#1373
Post
by Michelle » Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:09 am

Dom's Iso is a chain of shades adressed firstly at Iaafr who is my top TR since day 1 with Nutella and Radishes that to mention 3 players.

If we have or not night 2 kills we have no infos, but Nova and Nanook goes to other creepy dream level distinct by this one. No words about everyone else but that isn't worrisome, we know since Boo was mislynched that a thread with normal lynch mechanics still exists and there mafia succeded to push it's narrative.

Dom wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:59 pm
...i'm quite frankly sick of this discourse and want to play the game.

And he played a lot, like we see below:

Dom wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:59 pm
Yeah, I don't love radishes' posts at all.

And that is his last post. What a scum play!

Dom goes near Elephant in my scumpile of players outside the dream and to make them a trio i will add Nova.

Quin wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:02 am
but also like when i have a minute i'll read through who's left and give thoughts now that i'm not buried in activity

@Quin don't limit yourself at the current list, you have to give your ideas for everyone in this thread for me to make a read on you. Thanks for cooperation.

this is my first post against Dom. before criticize it think at the low level of info we had in the dream level.

It says "Phase 2", but this is a day 3 post, right? Are you as certain about Dom as you are about me?
Nova flipped town, btw.

yes, how do you know? scumchat told you isn't it?
Almost.
I know, we talked today btw.

[Elephant]

I'm so fucking annoyed yet so relieved that people are back. But seriously, did you guys really just send us inactive players? WTF.

We lynched iaafr yesterday in case ya’ll got lonely.

Jack, how do you know you lynched iaafr? Were you allowed to put your final votes in the thread instead of PMing them?

Our votes were public on the last day, at least at DL3.

Have these polls been posted here?

Ohhh ok I did not understand that, thanks.

Sorry, I didnt scroll down enough when replying.
Do we have the polls?

[Michelle]

@Michelle see above

thanks I will read it and answer at it.

[juliets]

[mention]Elephant[/mention] have you read enough of the whole F3 issue to know what you think about it?

Do you see Eva as wolf in this game? What about Pawn? Also would appreciate an opinion on Jack. Where are you on TLib?

Besides Michelle who else are you reading as scum and why?

Out of all these questions maybe the one you can answer the easiest is where are you on TLib. Benson's posts before he died about TLib haunt me.

Also everyone I have to go to the gym for my rehab. I will be back as soon as I can.

[Elephant]

Re: Inception [Subconscious Phase 2]
Report this post

#1373
Post
by Michelle » Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:09 am

Dom's Iso is a chain of shades adressed firstly at Iaafr who is my top TR since day 1 with Nutella and Radishes that to mention 3 players.

If we have or not night 2 kills we have no infos, but Nova and Nanook goes to other creepy dream level distinct by this one. No words about everyone else but that isn't worrisome, we know since Boo was mislynched that a thread with normal lynch mechanics still exists and there mafia succeded to push it's narrative.

Dom wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:59 pm
...i'm quite frankly sick of this discourse and want to play the game.

And he played a lot, like we see below:

Dom wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:59 pm
Yeah, I don't love radishes' posts at all.

And that is his last post. What a scum play!

Dom goes near Elephant in my scumpile of players outside the dream and to make them a trio i will add Nova.

Quin wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:02 am
but also like when i have a minute i'll read through who's left and give thoughts now that i'm not buried in activity

@Quin don't limit yourself at the current list, you have to give your ideas for everyone in this thread for me to make a read on you. Thanks for cooperation.

this is my first post against Dom. before criticize it think at the low level of info we had in the dream level.

It says "Phase 2", but this is a day 3 post, right? Are you as certain about Dom as you are about me?
Nova flipped town, btw.

yes, how do you know? scumchat told you isn't it?
Almost.
I know, we talked today btw.

Can you please dial down the hostility? Nanook and Nova are mentioned, that's how I know.
"Almost" is not the answer I was hoping for.
The point about nova is that your read on nova was wrong. But then, you weren't very confident on them, so maybe that's ok.

[Dom]

think we see the game differently

wish you'd be a bit more respectful and not repeatedly imply youre obviously right and im obviously wrong in everything

is disagreement a lack of respect?

Nutella my english misunderstandings are often happening, this is my problem and I know they look odd for natives. My wording lack force sometimes because i have to express myself with the words I know and who are not enough. I am a latin languages specialist because all the language I learned in school are latin based like my native language. English is different and I never studied it, i learned it by reading. So to take posts and say what I feel about them is always hard for me. Regarding Elephant I choose posts I can talk about, I know he has many posts more relevant for a scum case against him.

I think you do a pretty good job, tbh.

That was 13 pages that were barely worth reading.

Cool!


Can I just say that these posts are kind of just as worthless as the posts you're complaining about? You have control of what is in the thread. Change it if you don't like it.


I struggle to land on someone who isn't Eva. Elephant v. Michelle seemed civ v. civ to me. Can someone explain why it's not?

Thanks for encouragement.

I will tell you why the bolded is wrong. Giving my step by step reads I made in this game, I have Pawn as town and Pawn saying Eve is villager, I would never lynch her today.

aand me vs Elephant is civ vs mafia. Which I think you know because I SR you too.

Right... but why is it civ v mafia?
Why is my interpretation wrong?

Were the dream levels aware that when someone was lynched or NK'd at their level they came into the top level where the lynch or NK became real?

On a different subject, I am now reading nutella as town after reading through her posts in this new phase. I don't agree with everything she says but that's ok.

I was seeing Elephant as town in our time together before we merged back together. I am concerned though because he hasn't been here very much in this new phase and I don't understand his vote on Michelle. @Elephant I need to see more from you today.

No the dream levels didn't *know* that. It was theorized though.

Jack has a lot of specific information from the deepest level that I only learned this phase. Why did he know before me? or you for that matter.

Does everyone know that this game is based on the fact that we lie about each other?

I like you agree you can lie

....That's not what I asked.

What makes her vote record worse than mine-- someone you were convinced was bad just two days ago?

agreeing you had bad votes. noted

Jack didn't produce much of substance until things boiled over on him in the lower dreams.
He stopped producing, buddied nutella and followed epi's vote on her with zero reasoning.

yuck

time for me to check Jack too.

Jack
sprityo
eva
pawn
iaafr

there be baddies

Whom though? I don't see much content at you.

Michelle, respectfully, read my posts. I have bene going back and forth with a lot of players discussing the game. If you choose to ignore them, that's a you problem.

This post is chock full of confirmation bias.

Re: Inception [Subconscious Phase 2]
Report this post

#1373
Post
by Michelle » Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:09 am

Dom's Iso is a chain of shades adressed firstly at Iaafr who is my top TR since day 1 with Nutella and Radishes that to mention 3 players.

If we have or not night 2 kills we have no infos, but Nova and Nanook goes to other creepy dream level distinct by this one. No words about everyone else but that isn't worrisome, we know since Boo was mislynched that a thread with normal lynch mechanics still exists and there mafia succeded to push it's narrative.

Dom wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:59 pm
...i'm quite frankly sick of this discourse and want to play the game.

And he played a lot, like we see below:

Dom wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:59 pm
Yeah, I don't love radishes' posts at all.

And that is his last post. What a scum play!

Dom goes near Elephant in my scumpile of players outside the dream and to make them a trio i will add Nova.

Quin wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:02 am
but also like when i have a minute i'll read through who's left and give thoughts now that i'm not buried in activity

@Quin don't limit yourself at the current list, you have to give your ideas for everyone in this thread for me to make a read on you. Thanks for cooperation.

this is my first post against Dom. before criticize it think at the low level of info we had in the dream level.

Yeah-- I didn't like radishes' play in Day 2 at all.

I tried to play the game, but you'll remember two members in particular were mostly complaining that this game sucks, the set up sucks, and were just floating a theory that all the Syndicaters were bad, were calling me names non-stop...

Yeah, I'd love to see you play in that environment.

[Elephant]

@Michelle see above

Could you please post your own wall as well?

[Elephant]

@Elephant have you read enough of the whole F3 issue to know what you think about it?

Do you see Eva as wolf in this game? What about Pawn? Also would appreciate an opinion on Jack. Where are you on TLib?

Besides Michelle who else are you reading as scum and why?

Out of all these questions maybe the one you can answer the easiest is where are you on TLib. Benson's posts before he died about TLib haunt me.

Also everyone I have to go to the gym for my rehab. I will be back as soon as I can.

From my talk with Sprityo and Radishes' entrance, I like Radishes to be scum. I have a hard time reading Evenstar in any situation. I have not looked at Pawn or Jack. TLib would be a POE lynch for me. I'm still town on you and Hyena, would look for scum in the other three. I'd have to look up Benson.

[sprityo]

@Michelle see above

Could you please post your own wall as well?

It wouldn’t exactly be fair for me to post myself, but I can. I asked Evenstar and Radishes to do it

[Elephant]

[mention]Dom[/mention] Is there a case on Jack having information he should not have?

[Dom]

I was complaining about the weird turn of events

all out d2 is a hypothetical where we had the whole playerlist and weren't restricted by strange rules

I wasn't complaining about the threadstate given the restrictions, I was complaining about the restrictions and the playerpool getting fucked with

but sure yea double down on your bad reading comprehension dude

"my opponents are mean and critiquing me! but they are also illiterate!"

Decide if you're on the civility police task force or not. Your meaning was far from clear. Get over yourself.

You seem to have an awful lot of time to complain about me, but none to rebut Epi's claims that you have quarreled with almost nothing specifically.

iaafr let's get this guy

he's trying to beat your spirit down imo

don't fall for it

This is a bad look for 112.

[Dom]

To be clear-- that's Day 2

[Dom]

@Dom Is there a case on Jack having information he should not have?

...yeah.... I'm making it... did you read my posts or?

[Elephant]

@Michelle see above

Could you please post your own wall as well?

It wouldn’t exactly be fair for me to post myself, but I can. I asked Evenstar and Radishes to do it

Well, just cheat on posting your own wall, then scum hunting becomes very easy!

[sprityo]

Like the title of them reads elephant, these are the posts that I found notable. Radishes or Evenstar might have different points in that day they felt were more important and could post them if they want

[Elephant]

@Dom Is there a case on Jack having information he should not have?

...yeah.... I'm making it... did you read my posts or?

No, I just saw you reference it in your recent post, and became curious. So yours is another ISO I have to look up then?

[Elephant]

Like the title of them reads elephant, these are the posts that I found notable. Radishes or Evenstar might have different points in that day they felt were more important and could post them if they want

Ah, ok. I'm mostly interested in how you justified your late vote on Radishes, and basically everything from everyone after this.

[Michelle]

taking advantage of pc to write my paper notes

D1 vote count

[10] Dragomir - Benson, nutella, vanity., Long Con, Master Radishes, Hyena, Trustworthy Liberal, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, Pawn Lelouch, juliets
[7] 112 - Creature, Evenstar, TonyStarkPrime, novaselinenever, Elephant, Epignosis, Jackofhearts2005
[3] Evenstar - Texas Cloverleaf?, sprityo, Quin
[2] Hyena - Dom, Michelle
[2] No Lynch - iaafr, boo
[1] Epignosis - MacDougall
[1] MacDougall - Dragomir
[1] nutella - Lady LambdaDelta
[1] Trustworthy Liberal - 112

D2 vc
[5] boo - Long Con, Hyena, nutella, Benson, vanity.,
[5] DFaraday - Trustworthy Liberal, Creature, juliets,boo , Elephant
[1] Trustworthy Liberal - DFaraday

D3 vc
[1] Creature - NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
[2] Elephant - Long Con, vanity.
[3] Nova/Ty4on - nutella, juliets, Creature
[1] Trustworthy Liberal - Nova/Ty4on
[3] vanity. -Trustworthy Liberal, Elephant, Hyena

D4 vc
[3] Trustworthy Liberal - Long Con, vanity., Creature
[5] vanity. - Elephant, juliets, Hyena, nutella, Trustworthy Liberal
non voting - Quin, LLD

[Michelle]

I was complaining about the weird turn of events

all out d2 is a hypothetical where we had the whole playerlist and weren't restricted by strange rules

I wasn't complaining about the threadstate given the restrictions, I was complaining about the restrictions and the playerpool getting fucked with

but sure yea double down on your bad reading comprehension dude

"my opponents are mean and critiquing me! but they are also illiterate!"

Decide if you're on the civility police task force or not. Your meaning was far from clear. Get over yourself.

You seem to have an awful lot of time to complain about me, but none to rebut Epi's claims that you have quarreled with almost nothing specifically.

iaafr let's get this guy

he's trying to beat your spirit down imo

don't fall for it

This is a bad look for 112.

how come you can quote and I can't?

[Michelle]

Spoiler: show

Re: Inception [Subconscious Phase 2]
Report this post

#1373
Post
by Michelle » Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:09 am

Dom's Iso is a chain of shades adressed firstly at Iaafr who is my top TR since day 1 with Nutella and Radishes that to mention 3 players.

If we have or not night 2 kills we have no infos, but Nova and Nanook goes to other creepy dream level distinct by this one. No words about everyone else but that isn't worrisome, we know since Boo was mislynched that a thread with normal lynch mechanics still exists and there mafia succeded to push it's narrative.

Dom wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:59 pm
...i'm quite frankly sick of this discourse and want to play the game.

And he played a lot, like we see below:

Dom wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:59 pm
Yeah, I don't love radishes' posts at all.

And that is his last post. What a scum play!

Dom goes near Elephant in my scumpile of players outside the dream and to make them a trio i will add Nova.

Quin wrote: ↑
Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:02 am
but also like when i have a minute i'll read through who's left and give thoughts now that i'm not buried in activity

@Quin don't limit yourself at the current list, you have to give your ideas for everyone in this thread for me to make a read on you. Thanks for cooperation.

this is my first post against Dom. before criticize it think at the low level of info we had in the dream level.

It says "Phase 2", but this is a day 3 post, right? Are you as certain about Dom as you are about me?
Nova flipped town, btw.

yes, how do you know? scumchat told you isn't it?
Almost.
I know, we talked today btw.

Can you please dial down the hostility? Nanook and Nova are mentioned, that's how I know.
"Almost" is not the answer I was hoping for.
The point about nova is that your read on nova was wrong. But then, you weren't very confident on them, so maybe that's ok.

the fact I call you wolf is not hostility, is game my read.

Thanks, your last sentence implies that being my confidence my reads are ok.

Elephant agrees he and Dom are scum

[Elephant]

Dom is site staff, that's why he can quote. Jimmy wrote it would be disabled, but it apparently isn't.

I missed out on some besoke tantrums last night. Evenstar calming the waters is a good look for her.

[Elephant]

Dom is site staff, that's why he can quote. Jimmy wrote it would be disabled, but it apparently isn't.

I missed out on some bespoke tantrums last night. Evenstar calming the waters is a good look for her.

EBWOP

[Michelle]

@Dom please requote your post 99 from dream level. thanks

[Evenstar]

Eh,

[VOTE: Nutella] aubergine

this or epi imo

[Michelle]

Dom is site staff, that's why he can quote. Jimmy wrote it would be disabled, but it apparently isn't.

I missed out on some besoke tantrums last night. Evenstar calming the waters is a good look for her.

yeah this works like our democracy here

[Elephant]

Spoiler: show

Re: Inception [Subconscious Phase 2]
Report this post

#1373
Post
by Michelle » Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:09 am

Dom's Iso is a chain of shades adressed firstly at Iaafr who is my top TR since day 1 with Nutella and Radishes that to mention 3 players.

If we have or not night 2 kills we have no infos, but Nova and Nanook goes to other creepy dream level distinct by this one. No words about everyone else but that isn't worrisome, we know since Boo was mislynched that a thread with normal lynch mechanics still exists and there mafia succeded to push it's narrative.

And he played a lot, like we see below:

And that is his last post. What a scum play!

Dom goes near Elephant in my scumpile of players outside the dream and to make them a trio i will add Nova.

@Quin don't limit yourself at the current list, you have to give your ideas for everyone in this thread for me to make a read on you. Thanks for cooperation.

this is my first post against Dom. before criticize it think at the low level of info we had in the dream level.

It says "Phase 2", but this is a day 3 post, right? Are you as certain about Dom as you are about me?
Nova flipped town, btw.

yes, how do you know? scumchat told you isn't it?
Almost.
I know, we talked today btw.

Can you please dial down the hostility? Nanook and Nova are mentioned, that's how I know.
"Almost" is not the answer I was hoping for.
The point about nova is that your read on nova was wrong. But then, you weren't very confident on them, so maybe that's ok.

the fact I call you wolf is not hostility, is game my read.

Thanks, your last sentence implies that being my confidence my reads are ok.

Elephant agrees he and Dom are scum

I do not agree that I am scum.
If you arrived at these reads the same way (and if my assumptions are correct), then Dom must be scum.

[Michelle]

work time for me for real.

cya later

[Elephant]

Spoiler: show

Re: Inception [Subconscious Phase 2]
Report this post

#1373
Post
by Michelle » Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:09 am

this is my first post against Dom. before criticize it think at the low level of info we had in the dream level.

It says "Phase 2", but this is a day 3 post, right? Are you as certain about Dom as you are about me?
Nova flipped town, btw.

yes, how do you know? scumchat told you isn't it?
Almost.
I know, we talked today btw.

Can you please dial down the hostility? Nanook and Nova are mentioned, that's how I know.
"Almost" is not the answer I was hoping for.
The point about nova is that your read on nova was wrong. But then, you weren't very confident on them, so maybe that's ok.

the fact I call you wolf is not hostility, is game my read.

Thanks, your last sentence implies that being my confidence my reads are ok.

Elephant agrees he and Dom are scum

I do not agree that I am scum.
If you arrived at these reads the same way (and if my assumptions are correct), then Dom must be scum.

[VOTE: Dom] aubergine
One way to find out. [mention]juliets[/mention] ?

[Elephant]

work time for me for real.

cya later

I guess I need to wait for a reaction, then.

[Dom]

@Dom Is there a case on Jack having information he should not have?

...yeah.... I'm making it... did you read my posts or?

No, I just saw you reference it in your recent post, and became curious. So yours is another ISO I have to look up then?

...I mean... Discuss.

Why did Jack know about the final three, and specific details like they're probably lynching radishes, the exact players who were there, and the dynamic they were having... all the way down to calling them the final three.

Seems pretty specific, doesn't it?

I was complaining about the weird turn of events

all out d2 is a hypothetical where we had the whole playerlist and weren't restricted by strange rules

I wasn't complaining about the threadstate given the restrictions, I was complaining about the restrictions and the playerpool getting fucked with

but sure yea double down on your bad reading comprehension dude

"my opponents are mean and critiquing me! but they are also illiterate!"

Decide if you're on the civility police task force or not. Your meaning was far from clear. Get over yourself.

You seem to have an awful lot of time to complain about me, but none to rebut Epi's claims that you have quarreled with almost nothing specifically.

iaafr let's get this guy

he's trying to beat your spirit down imo

don't fall for it

This is a bad look for 112.

how come you can quote and I can't?

I'm using the PM feature and copying and pasting.



Now that I look-- I could still quote.

[Dom]

Spoiler: show

this is my first post against Dom. before criticize it think at the low level of info we had in the dream level.

It says "Phase 2", but this is a day 3 post, right? Are you as certain about Dom as you are about me?
Nova flipped town, btw.

yes, how do you know? scumchat told you isn't it?
Almost.
I know, we talked today btw.

Can you please dial down the hostility? Nanook and Nova are mentioned, that's how I know.
"Almost" is not the answer I was hoping for.
The point about nova is that your read on nova was wrong. But then, you weren't very confident on them, so maybe that's ok.

the fact I call you wolf is not hostility, is game my read.

Thanks, your last sentence implies that being my confidence my reads are ok.

Elephant agrees he and Dom are scum

I do not agree that I am scum.
If you arrived at these reads the same way (and if my assumptions are correct), then Dom must be scum.

[VOTE: Dom] aubergine
One way to find out. @juliets ?

LOL

[Dom]

This was my catch up of Day 1 post I immediately posted in the thread. Michelle asked me to post it.

...I don't know I can keep up with this game. There's been like 20 pages since I last had a chance to really sit down. I just got home. I get annoyed with posts that don't say shit but exist. Stop those.

mac is townreading me for no reason
dom is scumreading me for no reason

always fun to join new communities

I'm also super amused that the wagon on me is composed of:
- Texas, who has a bee in her bonnet because apparently I ought to be expecting her to throw her vote aroubd more
- four people who have never played with me before

also I have no clue what's up with this gimmick thing but on general principle I'm not gonna participate. Trying to read the entire game from six people is a bad plan.

i need to reread drago

not gonna tonight though

it is 11 pee em and i should sleep

Epignosis is speaking good words and people should listen to him

@Pawn Lelouch put your head together with Epi, between the two of you you can probably solve this

Emotional manipulation is not gonna work on me, sis.

mac is townreading me for no reason
dom is scumreading me for no reason

always fun to join new communities

I'm also super amused that the wagon on me is composed of:
- Texas, who has a bee in her bonnet because apparently I ought to be expecting her to throw her vote aroubd more
- four people who have never played with me before

also I have no clue what's up with this gimmick thing but on general principle I'm not gonna participate. Trying to read the entire game from six people is a bad plan.

i need to reread drago

not gonna tonight though

it is 11 pee em and i should sleep

Epignosis is speaking good words and people should listen to him

@Pawn Lelouch put your head together with Epi, between the two of you you can probably solve this

I do have a reason actually. You have a tell.

And apparently it's a bullshit appeal since Mac seems to know you anyway. Not a good look.

where do you guys in the thread rn stand on epignosis and why?

I lean town because I feel like I'm halfway decent at reading him.

But I'm also late to the game, and could be wrong and haven't seen enough evidence to make a hard and fast decision.

Come to think of it I have played in an insanely small amount of games where Epi was mafia. It's quite incredible and I never realised it before. If it's any at all it's like 1 or 2.

...his scumteams rarely ever lose.

Don't like Mac sucking up to Epi at all.
Why does he need such a brown nose? I've won a shit ton of games and destroyed Mac as a baddie in the past. Why is he choosing to stroke Epi's ego here?

@Long Con Mac can be aware that Epi has won many scum games without having played those games. The hall of fame exists.

@Elephant to answer what you tagged me in-- Epi does often do weird things to generate reactions as town. He seems so confident in his hyena read that I thought the linguistic tic thing was real, but it's possible I'm missing something.

Don't think this is what Long Con was implying.

Jack: What should I do?
Mac: Eva is town cause meta.
Jack: That makes sense.
MakotoCloverleaf: No that’s wrong!
Jack: Ooookay. What should I do?
Nutella: 112 is scum cause meta.
Jack: That makes sense.
MakotoBensen: No that’s wrong!
Jack:

You are in control of the content of the thread. You can have your own thoughts. Why are you opposed?

Probably just the second one cause Jay would give safeclaims.

this seems awfully specific given the flip...

Jack I really feel like you've been hard buddying me and idk what to think of that.

it's yucky !

Jack I really feel like you've been hard buddying me and idk what to think of that.

Well, you should stop saying things I’m going to say.

generate #content pls.

Ten pages. Again.

I wish people would just... post relevant material... and not just post thigns like "yeah!"

Why are you guys voting epi what in the hot shit

If Epi wasn't Epi I think he'd have a lot more voted. He's cruising too much imo. I sense that he has been manipulating people.

Do you think I'm bad because I'm cruising too much?

I think Epi and I are in similar places with this thread and I'm frustrated.

Wait is epi the syndicate and borderline prescriptivist version of me? Cause that’s the vibe I’m getting

Dom and Epi are both similar to you.

Explain.

I do have one question about Evenstar: Why only make two charts? Why just nutella and Pawn?

It was never a genuine thread they planned on going through.

I think Drag v 112 v TSP are the three wagons we should focus on atm.
Epig just seems way too risky given how much praise his villager game is getting.

This is a fake opinion. Nobody cares that much about random opinions on a random player in a 30 player game.

I swear multiple people from this site said Epig is the best player on the forum and historically very hard to read. Is that wrong?
I just don't like lynching that when I'm reading him as null and we have several wolfy low posters that can be culled instead

I don't like Mac's direction here. He himself talked about how Epi is the best player and cozied up to him.

Is Drago getting lynched for sleaze? Lol.

What does this mean?

I'm leaning towards voting Drago at the moment, btw.

The series of posts here that Hyena had bothered me bigly.
Like.... it just felt so disingenuous and opportunistic and fake af.

Especially given the flip.

My scumreads for now: hyena, mac, jack
My townreads for now: nutella, epi, me, long con

I will catch up.

I don't think I broke any rules here.

[Jackofhearts2005]

for this forum users, is normal when i reply to a post who contains a tag that that tag to pop up blue and covering your text?
And if I press enter that tag is self inserring in my message without shame.

It's very annoying and looks like a bug

Normal and I hate it.

Delete the “@“ from the post you are quoting and it goes away.

[sprityo]

taking advantage of pc to write my paper notes

D1 vote count

[10] Dragomir - Benson, nutella, vanity., Long Con, Master Radishes, Hyena, Trustworthy Liberal, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, Pawn Lelouch, juliets
[7] 112 - Creature, Evenstar, TonyStarkPrime, novaselinenever, Elephant, Epignosis, Jackofhearts2005
[3] Evenstar - Texas Cloverleaf?, sprityo, Quin
[2] Hyena - Dom, Michelle
[2] No Lynch - iaafr, boo
[1] Epignosis - MacDougall
[1] MacDougall - Dragomir
[1] nutella - Lady LambdaDelta
[1] Trustworthy Liberal - 112

D2 vc
[5] boo - Long Con, Hyena, nutella, Benson, vanity.,
[5] DFaraday - Trustworthy Liberal, Creature, juliets,boo , Elephant
[1] Trustworthy Liberal - DFaraday

D3 vc
[1] Creature - NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
[2] Elephant - Long Con, vanity.
[3] Nova/Ty4on - nutella, juliets, Creature
[1] Trustworthy Liberal - Nova/Ty4on
[3] vanity. -Trustworthy Liberal, Elephant, Hyena

D4 vc
[3] Trustworthy Liberal - Long Con, vanity., Creature
[5] vanity. - Elephant, juliets, Hyena, nutella, Trustworthy Liberal
non voting - Quin, LLD

TL and elephant look a bit worse in the context of these votes

Thank you for coloring them for me

[Evenstar]

Elephant 4 [Long Con, iaafr, Michelle, Nutella]
JackofHearts2005 2 [Epignosis, Dom]
Long Con 2 [Macdougall, JackofHearts2005]
Nutella 2 [Lady Lambdadelta, Evenstar]
Evenstar 2 [112, Sprityo]
Epignosis 1 [Pawn Lelouch]
Hyena 1 [Master Radishes]
iaafr 1 [Quin]
Dom 1[Elephant]
Trustworthy Liberal 1 [Hyena]

3 Not Voting: Juliets, ColinisCool, Trustworthy Liberal

17 votes cast and the largest wagon is 4.

What an absolutely atrocious votal. We need to get our shit together.

(I guess it's better than "nova/jack is obvious scum, lol", but not by much.)

[mention]Hyena[/mention]
[mention]Elephant[/mention]
[mention]Quin[/mention]
[mention]Master Radishes[/mention]
[mention]Pawn Lelouch[/mention]

All of you, make your strongest case for why the person you are on right now deserves to be in contention. If you don't have a case you're willing to put time in to defend, vote someone else.

[mention]juliets[/mention]
[mention]ColinIsCool[/mention]
[mention]Trustworthy Liberal[/mention]

This may be the most important day phase in the entire game. We need your input. Put a damn vote down already.

[Master Radishes]

What an absolutely atrocious votal. We need to get our shit together.

...

This may be the most important day phase in the entire game. We need your input. Put a damn vote down already.

Shh. The townies are working now, Eva.

[Evenstar]

What an absolutely atrocious votal. We need to get our shit together.

...

This may be the most important day phase in the entire game. We need your input. Put a damn vote down already.

Shh. The townies are working now, Eva.

Thanks for the blatant attempt to shut down discussion and coordination. Go sit in the corner while the actual townies here work.

[Master Radishes]

Elephant, Hyena, Juliets, Long Con, Nutella, Trusty Lib

These are the ones responsible for mislynching Spinyboo, vanity, and novaTy4on, and as-good-as DF. There are always at least 2 wolves in this group, and I’m ready to believe 3. They started as a group of 11 and of those originals 5 vils have flipped, leaving these 6.

Personally, there’s only one among them I am ready to townlean: Long Con. I just feel him to be town. His ISO shows critical thinking and I don’t feel any agenda when I read his posts. His EoD1 was sketchy on the surface – voting 112 then flipping to Drago last minute – but how many scum are bold enough to hop around with at least one mate on the line like that? It felt natural to me.

The others are all suspect.

Juliets – her tone feels off. Her movement on/off vanity feels unnatural. She asks lots of questions and works hard to dig up old posts and votes, but she doesn’t seem willing to push her views, moreso follow others.
Nutella – pure WIFOM. Does defending vanity when no one else was doing so exonerate her or show TMI? She flip-flops on things like a fish out of water, but in an organic way like iaafr does? She’s defensive towards LLD, but is it a frustration of a scum who doesn’t know how to clear herself, or a town who feels unfairly attacked?
Elephant – engineered the anti-vanity movement with a series of points that were just dirt scraped off the edge of a barrel, no real substance at all. Insisted for three phases this was his vote, yet shows no issue hopping to Ty4on with poor justification like ‘the other level saw fit to lynch him, so we should too’ (paraphrase). If he’s town he’s done nothing good to help solve the game.
Hyena – difficult to read; helped push the vanity vote but at times seemed willing to explore alternatives. A bit trolly at times so hard to know when serious or not. This is a case where meta might be helpful, but I don’t have it.
Trusty Lib – just bad all around. Slanked through the thread but was always there to push vanity on others’ work. His ISO is horrid.


A number of combos exist. In a vacuum, T Lib and Elephant look most like scum to me.

If we aren't going to thunderdome Eva/Sprit/me, this is where we look. The 'middle' levels are far too mushy to bother with right now.

[VOTE: Trustworthy Liberal] aubergine

[Dom]

Eva-- forget nutella and Epi for a second-- I'm not voting for either.

Who is bad and why?

[Elephant]

This is from the Day 4 thread.

I’m not certain there’s a wolf at all at this level. If there is, I’m not certain it’s Dom. Like I townread Epi for most of the game and then he told me my read on him was stupid.

What’s the disadvantage to lynching if there is no wolf?

We’re lynching Radishes tomorrow regardless.

....why do you know radishes will be with "us"

This is so freaking weird that you have been assuming so much knowledge about the game. What do you know, why do you know it, and how do you know it?

I assume Radishes gets lynched today back to us. If not, idk what happens if scum wins the “final three.”

Surely they don’t just win cause why are we here if that’s the case?

They might all three come back to us regardless of their lynch.

So Radish should come back to us in a lot of possible worlds and we can and should lynch him tomorrow regardless of who we lynch today.

Jack has AMAZING knowledge of a thread he's not a part of, huh?

Has Jack defended here?
With your weird voting rules, he'd have to know that Radishes was neither lynched nor nightkilled, then he'd have assumed that the other players went to a deeper dream level. And that being a 3-player dream, something had to happen.
Players jump to conclusions. If you lynch for that, lynch MR for his "gain some advantage" post, lynch TLib for "when I think split, I think two", lynch those on my level who predicted you would not see a nova flip on the above level. It's just not a lot if you take it by itself.

The weird thing is Jack predicting that MR gets lynched at that upper level. This was never clear until Evenstar switched her vote; maybe Sprityo could have predicted it if they anticipated Evenstar changing, which seems like a super big chance for scum to take when they could just have voted with Radishes. So that prediction is just a guess and nothing more"

[Master Radishes]

What an absolutely atrocious votal. We need to get our shit together.

...

This may be the most important day phase in the entire game. We need your input. Put a damn vote down already.

Shh. The townies are working now, Eva.

Thanks for the blatant attempt to shut down discussion and coordination. Go sit in the corner while the actual townies here work.

You're fun to troll.

[Elephant]

taking advantage of pc to write my paper notes

D1 vote count

[10] Dragomir - Benson, nutella, vanity., Long Con, Master Radishes, Hyena, Trustworthy Liberal, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, Pawn Lelouch, juliets
[7] 112 - Creature, Evenstar, TonyStarkPrime, novaselinenever, Elephant, Epignosis, Jackofhearts2005
[3] Evenstar - Texas Cloverleaf?, sprityo, Quin
[2] Hyena - Dom, Michelle
[2] No Lynch - iaafr, boo
[1] Epignosis - MacDougall
[1] MacDougall - Dragomir
[1] nutella - Lady LambdaDelta
[1] Trustworthy Liberal - 112

D2 vc
[5] boo - Long Con, Hyena, nutella, Benson, vanity.,
[5] DFaraday - Trustworthy Liberal, Creature, juliets,boo , Elephant
[1] Trustworthy Liberal - DFaraday

D3 vc
[1] Creature - NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
[2] Elephant - Long Con, vanity.
[3] Nova/Ty4on - nutella, juliets, Creature
[1] Trustworthy Liberal - Nova/Ty4on
[3] vanity. -Trustworthy Liberal, Elephant, Hyena

D4 vc
[3] Trustworthy Liberal - Long Con, vanity., Creature
[5] vanity. - Elephant, juliets, Hyena, nutella, Trustworthy Liberal
non voting - Quin, LLD

TL and elephant look a bit worse in the context of these votes

Thank you for coloring them for me

Why?
D2 I was on vanity most of the day, and switched to DFaraday at EoD.

[Hyena]

[mention]Evenstar[/mention]

[VOTE: Evenstar] aubergine

See below:

Spoiler: show

ok finally worked up the will to log in

who should I sheep

first one to mention me with a good reason gets my vote

@iaafr

vote nutella, she's MLed 3 town

I'm going to try this again (with a mention even this time @Evenstar):

....That's not what I asked.

What makes her vote record worse than mine-- someone you were convinced was bad just two days ago?

... the fact that she has verifiably lynched town?

And what of the other voters on those trains?

Are they just as bad yet they did not vote for Dragomir?

Nutella and Hyena are the only two players to participate in both town MLs. I don't think it's Hyena.

Ayy, progress has been made on the argument for "nutella is scum". Does knowing that I kinda pressured her to vote Vanity change your read on either of us? Also, there were three mislynches: Spiny/boo, Nova/Ty4on, and Vanity. Four if you count DFar, who was the counterwagon to Spiny/boo and is being speculated as a town vig shot.

If you're counting DFar, then everybody on D2 voted for town, except for DFar, who.. y'know.. flipped town. On D3, Ty4on and Vanity were tied at the end of the day, and Ty only got lynched due to Rand. Everyone but Ty, Vanity, and Long Con voted for one of Ty and Vanity. Finally, on D4, everyone but Long Con, vanity, and Creature voted for Vanity.

With that information, whose votes do you think looks the best and the worst now from our group? :P

pls, respond Eva <33

[Master Radishes]

taking advantage of pc to write my paper notes

D1 vote count

[10] Dragomir - Benson, nutella, vanity., Long Con, Master Radishes, Hyena, Trustworthy Liberal, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, Pawn Lelouch, juliets
[7] 112 - Creature, Evenstar, TonyStarkPrime, novaselinenever, Elephant, Epignosis, Jackofhearts2005
[3] Evenstar - Texas Cloverleaf?, sprityo, Quin
[2] Hyena - Dom, Michelle
[2] No Lynch - iaafr, boo
[1] Epignosis - MacDougall
[1] MacDougall - Dragomir
[1] nutella - Lady LambdaDelta
[1] Trustworthy Liberal - 112

D2 vc
[5] boo - Long Con, Hyena, nutella, Benson, vanity.,
[5] DFaraday - Trustworthy Liberal, Creature, juliets,boo , Elephant
[1] Trustworthy Liberal - DFaraday

D3 vc
[1] Creature - NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
[2] Elephant - Long Con, vanity.
[3] Nova/Ty4on - nutella, juliets, Creature
[1] Trustworthy Liberal - Nova/Ty4on
[3] vanity. -Trustworthy Liberal, Elephant, Hyena

D4 vc
[3] Trustworthy Liberal - Long Con, vanity., Creature
[5] vanity. - Elephant, juliets, Hyena, nutella, Trustworthy Liberal
non voting - Quin, LLD

TL and elephant look a bit worse in the context of these votes

Thank you for coloring them for me

Why?
D2 I was on vanity most of the day, and switched to DFaraday at EoD.

Yeah. You switched from an obvious townie you made a bad case on to a low-poster. Solid work.

[Master Radishes]

Man, I'm feeling sassy today.

[Master Radishes]

[mention]Hyena[/mention] I'm finding your ISO difficult to read. Can you do me a favour and summarise your general thought process during the vanity debacle?

The vote earlier was to prompt you for this sort of thing, but you ignored me.

[Elephant]

Elephant 4 [Long Con, iaafr, Michelle, Nutella]
JackofHearts2005 2 [Epignosis, Dom]
Long Con 2 [Macdougall, JackofHearts2005]
Nutella 2 [Lady Lambdadelta, Evenstar]
Evenstar 2 [112, Sprityo]
Epignosis 1 [Pawn Lelouch]
Hyena 1 [Master Radishes]
iaafr 1 [Quin]
Dom 1[Elephant]
Trustworthy Liberal 1 [Hyena]

3 Not Voting: Juliets, ColinisCool, Trustworthy Liberal

17 votes cast and the largest wagon is 4.

What an absolutely atrocious votal. We need to get our shit together.

(I guess it's better than "nova/jack is obvious scum, lol", but not by much.)

@Hyena
@Elephant
@Quin
@Master Radishes
@Pawn Lelouch

All of you, make your strongest case for why the person you are on right now deserves to be in contention. If you don't have a case you're willing to put time in to defend, vote someone else.

@juliets
@ColinIsCool
@Trustworthy Liberal

This may be the most important day phase in the entire game. We need your input. Put a damn vote down already.

Dom is an infolynch at this point. If he flips scum, Michelle is absolutely town, unless she refuses to commit -- and if she refuses, I need to re-evaluate her.
I have made a case on Radishes for the F3 lynch.
Lynching in my group is straight POE.