Inception [END]

[juliets]

Like imo, Iaafr has been in antispew mode for three day phases now and if I’m wrong, I’m angry at him and if I’m right, I’m angry at everyone else.

But I’m not that angry except that I am but not really.

Jack, could you explain what you mean by iaafr has been in "anti-spew" mode? I'm not sure what the means.

he means I've been intentionally making my reads thin slash meaningless with my high volume of flip flopping and low volume of hard evidence because I'm scum trying to make associations difficult once I flip

he is incorrect about that and should be mad at me but that's just my playstyle

I'll try to actually do more quote based cases tonight like I promised yesterday

Oh ok, I think your posts are less anti-spew today.

[juliets]

I find myself agreeing with a lot of what Colin is saying and to my surprise, agreeing with iaafr on some things too.

could you please list out what you agree and disagree with?

Ok sure. It'll take a few minutes though.

[iaafr]

anti spew goes beyond that too

low engagement would also fit into anti spew

but my honest to God reason for low engagement in the last two phases is that I wanted to stop reading posts about me and to me by epi and dom

which is not to say they're not good players and don't have meritorious thoughts

we just had some unfortunate dynamics that I had trouble getting over

[MacDougall]

a major complaint I have about lc is that it feels like he lost scum hunting direction ever since he lynched elephant

like 112 in wc1 @MacDougall

is lc in this game 112 in wc1? bus partners and coast?

Hmmm. That does sound like LC.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Like imo, Iaafr has been in antispew mode for three day phases now and if I’m wrong, I’m angry at him and if I’m right, I’m angry at everyone else.

But I’m not that angry except that I am but not really.

Jack, could you explain what you mean by iaafr has been in "anti-spew" mode? I'm not sure what the means.

he means I've been intentionally making my reads thin slash meaningless with my high volume of flip flopping and low volume of hard evidence because I'm scum trying to make associations difficult once I flip

[mention]juliets[/mention]

Yeah, exactly this.

The flip flopping and thinness is comical.

He switched his read on me like 4 times without saying why, without quoting any posts and without anyone else saying anything.

And then you, Colin and Radish are all like “I agree with Iaafr” and I’m like agree with what? He’s cycled his reads on basically every player today.

[iaafr]

I agree with iaafr

[juliets]

Like imo, Iaafr has been in antispew mode for three day phases now and if I’m wrong, I’m angry at him and if I’m right, I’m angry at everyone else.

But I’m not that angry except that I am but not really.

Jack, could you explain what you mean by iaafr has been in "anti-spew" mode? I'm not sure what the means.

he means I've been intentionally making my reads thin slash meaningless with my high volume of flip flopping and low volume of hard evidence because I'm scum trying to make associations difficult once I flip

@juliets

Yeah, exactly this.

The flip flopping and thinness is comical.

He switched his read on me like 4 times without saying why, without quoting any posts and without anyone else saying anything.

And then you, Colin and Radish are all like “I agree with Iaafr” and I’m like agree with what? He’s cycled his reads on basically every player today.

Yeah I'm going through and identifying where I agreed with him so maybe it will be easier to understand.

[Jackofhearts2005]

I agree with iaafr

I have enjoyed playing with you a great deal, you fluffy wolf you.

[iaafr]

me no wolf me rabbit

[iaafr]

also likewise

[juliets]

[mention]iaafr[/mention] here is where I agree and disagree with you.


iaafr I disagree with the post below. Michelle must have checked Quin, she called him a strong town read:

Spoiler: show

im actually just going to sit on quin for now

theres no way we should be taking this guy any further into this game as far as im concerned

also why do people even think he's town in the first place again?

[VOTE: Quin] aubergine

I agree with a lot of this post. I'm not ready to call Mac lock-town but I do want to give him a chance in case I'm in a tunnel. Also LC did ISO me and I think he found me scummy but hasn't pushed on that. Anyway, he seems scummy to me at this point.

Spoiler: show

ok ive done more reading and ive flipped again on mac as he predicted

mac is now locktown in this phase

jack is fine too

long con questions things but doesnt really push hard anywhere. he has a classically scummy iso in recent pages. there is no classically towny aggression or direction. he's always working off of what other people are doing, and nothing intersting seems to be coming out of a mind trying to solve. i think he should die.

i am now currently tunneling long con for this phase and making associations based on that

i look through his iso and see him doing a mix of reading town/town stuff correctly and egging on town/town stuff in a very inoffensive way.

[VOTE: long con] aubergine

Agree with this as I was going through his ISO:

Spoiler: show

ultimately when i keep rereading jack i think hes town

will keep checking this feeling over and over

I agree with this:

Spoiler: show

i dont think TL is scum. 3p at worst, probably town.

I agree with a lot of this. I think LC stayed on Elephant on Day 3 to look towny later.

Spoiler: show

stared at long con iso for another 5 minutes or so

the thing that bothers me about him is how from my reads hes just mostly trying to find ways to call town scum: me, dom, epi, juliets mainly, but also TL.

but i dont really feel conviction that any of us are scum

he makes a case on why juliets looks bad, because juliets defended elephant at some points and didn't have the best reads

but it seems too surface level and he doesnt care enough about it to stay on it instead of voting epi

i mean i assume scum were on epi over me regardless of the fact that im town because he'd seem like a more valuable ml

long con just has elephant and drago cred

but mendel couldve been asking to be bussed

hm i need to re-examine his elephant progression

but im finally going to sleep now

This makes sense to me too. ([mention]Jackofhearts2005[/mention] I'm trying to see Radish as town but it's really hard from where I sit. Maybe I'm biased.)

Spoiler: show

radishes pushing Juliets, who is to me, the towniest of that trio, reeks to me of being the 3p who needs to scumside another phase to keep control of the game

maybe me confbiasing and tunneling now but it makes sense to me

I think his vote Day 3 conveniently makes him look towny. Easy to bus when no one is on your team mate but one other person. That may not be a fair assessment though, I'll look back at how the vote went down.

Spoiler: show

I guess lc has better voting on d3

Agree here.

Spoiler: show

a major complaint I have about lc is that it feels like he lost scum hunting direction ever since he lynched elephant

like 112 in wc1 @MacDougall

is lc in this game 112 in wc1? bus partners and coast?

[juliets]

ALSO HAPPY BIRTHDAY MAC! Maybe it was yesterday in Australian time but our site shows it as today.

[iaafr]

thank you very much

[VOTE: long con ] aubergine

I'll try to reread Michelle more closely tonight but I hate doing isos on mobile

eta 10hours or something, probably after you're asleep unfortunately

[juliets]

[mention]MacDougall[/mention] what do you think about Long Con?

[juliets]

bbs

[iaafr]

why are we confident Michelle is cop again?

[Master Radishes]

Let's play with some wagonomics.

Day 1
[10] Dragomir - Benson, nutella, vanity., Long Con, Master Radishes, Hyena, Trustworthy Liberal, NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME, Pawn Lelouch, juliets
[7] 112 - Creature, Evenstar, TonyStarkPrime, novaselinenever, Elephant, Epignosis, Jackofhearts2005
[3] Evenstar - Texas Cloverleaf, sprityo, Quin
[2] Hyena - Dom, Michelle
[2] No Lynch - iaafr, boo
[1] Epignosis - MacDougall
[1] MacDougall - Dragomir
[1] nutella - Lady LambdaDelta
[1] Trustworthy Liberal - 112

Is there any way a scum team doesn't let at least one of its team bus a D1 scumwagon? No. Unfortunately, there are still too many unknowns to narrow it down.

Sure would be nice to know 112's alignment.

Likely also a scum off wagon?

Day 2
[5] boo - Long Con, Hyena, nutella, Benson, vanity.,
[5] DFaraday - Trustworthy Liberal, Creature, juliets,boo , Elephant
[1] Trustworthy Liberal - DFaraday

Day 3
[1] Creature - NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME
[2] Elephant - Long Con, vanity.
[3] Nova/Ty4on - nutella, juliets, Creature
[1] Trustworthy Liberal - Nova/Ty4on
[3] vanity. -Trustworthy Liberal, Elephant, Hyena

Day 4
[3] Trustworthy Liberal - Long Con, vanity., Creature
[5] vanity. - Elephant, juliets, Hyena, nutella, Trustworthy Liberal
non voting - Quin, LLD

This was when they were on their own, sans a few switcheroos.

What bothers me about D2 is that it was a decent slot vs a slanker spot. Did the scum really pile up on DF rather than take the opportunity to ensure Spinyboo's death? I really would expect Long Con's slot to flip red here based on conventional scum play. But maybe they still felt a bit uncertain and took the 'safe' lynch in DF.

D3 is a weird one. Is TL the scum who tried to push vanity out? Is juliets the scum on the counterwagon for distancing? Is LC the scum who bussed a mate?

D4 we have LC defending vanity, whilst both J and TL could be following Elephant's lead. TMI vs ensuring a ML.


This is a series of phases that deserve a re-read. I did in D5 when we rejoined the thread, but forget a lot of it now.

Day 5
[5] Elephant - hyena, LC, nutella, Michelle, Dom
[2] Evenstar - Master Radishes, Sprityo
[3] Hyena - Mac, Evenstar, Pawn
[1] iaafr - Quin
[2] Long Con - iaafr, juliets
[1] Michelle - elephant
[1] Nutella - LLD
[2] Pawn - Epi, Jack

The day we got two of 'em.

God damn, does this clear LC, or is he the busser (potentially for a third time)? This had a lot of last minute movement, and that's potentially a poor scumplay to bus Elephant. But maybe LC is like that?

And surely either Mac or Pawn are trying to prevent a scum lynch alongside Eva? Otherwise the others are all offwagon, which is pretty weird if it's a w/v dichotomy.

Day 6
[1] Dom - Trustworthy Liberal
[5] Hyena - Pawn, Mac, Radishes, juliets, Quin
[5] iaafr - sprityo, Dom, Epi, Mac, Colin
[2] LLD - LLD, Long Con
[1] Quin - 112
[1] Trustworthy Liberal - iaafr

Day 7
[6] Epignosis - Radishes, 112, Mac, Long Con, TL, iaafr
[3] iaafr - juliets, jack, Colin
[1] Radishes - Pawn
[1] Pawn - sprityo
[1] sprityo - Quin
[1] TL - Epignosis

Iaafr, if you're truly town, surely either Mac or Colin are scum to you, then?


I don't think there are any lockscum votes here. But wagonomics, whilst fallible, can provide some direction here.

Sorting out J/TL/LC would be good, for a start.

[iaafr]

I have been trying to sort j tl lc

unfortunately I just don't weigh wagonomics as heavily as you. I don't think Colin is scum with lc, and I am scumreading lc.

also why's Mac listed on both wagons in the d6 votes lmao

[Master Radishes]

I have been trying to sort j tl lc

unfortunately I just don't weigh wagonomics as heavily as you. I don't think Colin is scum with lc, and I am scumreading lc.

also why's Mac listed on both wagons in the d6 votes lmao

Re: Mac I just copy/pasted sprit. Blame him.


I use it as a starting point. Not going to lynch based solely off of it.

But I'd love opinions from @Syndicaters if LC is a busser as scum.

[Master Radishes]

Too tired for this right now. TBC.

[MacDougall]

I can't remember if LC is a busser. I do remember him getting mad at me for bussing him once years ago though.

[Long Con]

I never bus as scum, it's stupid. I would rather keep a teammate around than attempt some thin cred at their expense.

[Long Con]

God damn, does this clear LC, or is he the busser (potentially for a third time)? This had a lot of last minute movement, and that's potentially a poor scumplay to bus Elephant. But maybe LC is like that?

I don't think I was part of any last-minute movements on that day, I think I was at work during the lynch's end.

[iaafr]

I never bus as scum, it's stupid. I would rather keep a teammate around than attempt some thin cred at their expense.

current top town top scum?

[iaafr]

I considered sussing radishes as teamed scum who could freely push on Eva phases 2 to 4 without consequences because nobody dies in the dream layer and phase 5 because she knew she was poisoned but I remembered the existence of the lowest layer and it's just too troll to put two scum and sprityo in there

I keep wanting to clear jack on certain processes but then I remember hes the only one left from my phase 4 layer and thinking maybe he has to be scum

I need fresh thoughts on how to read these people and how to treat them

also need 112 pawn and lld to play more but maybe llds right and we should just autokill pawn

[Long Con]

a major complaint I have about lc is that it feels like he lost scum hunting direction ever since he lynched elephant

like 112 in wc1 @MacDougall

is lc in this game 112 in wc1? bus partners and coast?

I'm not coasting. This level of activity is pretty high for me.

[Long Con]

I never bus as scum, it's stupid. I would rather keep a teammate around than attempt some thin cred at their expense.

current top town top scum?

I like Colin, I like 112 for town. Scum I go juliets, TLib.

[iaafr]

it's not about level of activity it's about finding things to push

I have to reexamine your progression on epi again but it didn't feel convincing

but if you're town I could see Colin as the scum pouncing on this situation

[iaafr]

I never bus as scum, it's stupid. I would rather keep a teammate around than attempt some thin cred at their expense.

current top town top scum?

I like Colin, I like 112 for town. Scum I go juliets, TLib.

but why

[Long Con]

I considered sussing radishes as teamed scum who could freely push on Eva phases 2 to 4 without consequences because nobody dies in the dream layer and phase 5 because she knew she was poisoned but I remembered the existence of the lowest layer and it's just too troll to put two scum and sprityo in there

I keep wanting to clear jack on certain processes but then I remember hes the only one left from my phase 4 layer and thinking maybe he has to be scum

I need fresh thoughts on how to read these people and how to treat them

also need 112 pawn and lld to play more but maybe llds right and we should just autokill pawn

Pawn is someone I don't have a good read on. Why autokill?

What did you think of 112's Bard thing?

[iaafr]

it's just fluff and nai

pawn is autokill because he voted Drago and then hasn't sussed a single scum since while egging on my sus of epi and dom in phases 2 and 3 and defending Eva and reading Eva wrong and then dropping off the face of the Earth

basically no towncred other than Drago and a huge risk to take into late game

[iaafr]

pretty much pushed only hyena in phases 5 and 6 too

[Long Con]

I never bus as scum, it's stupid. I would rather keep a teammate around than attempt some thin cred at their expense.

current top town top scum?

I like Colin, I like 112 for town. Scum I go juliets, TLib.

but why

Colin has said some things that looked really town. Like, slip-ups or things he didn't know. Didn't he not realize he was alive? 112 feels genuine, and this new thing he announced gives me hope.

I've talked about juliets at length, and why I think she looks scummy. TLib, it's been a while but I suspected him in the past and he needs a fresh look.

[iaafr]

ok I'll reread and reevaluate your case on Juliets later tonight it's on the checklist

[Long Con]

Ok, Pawn can have a scumread. Does he have any redeeming qualities?

[iaafr]

Michelle liked him and idk I liked him a lot in phases 2 and 3 but that's when I incorrectly scumread all of like epi Dom sprit etc

[iaafr]

well if I'm massively wrong today and Juliets is the scum of the group

does anybody else think Michelle was a cop who knew quin was town

where'd the idea that Michelle was cop surface

why can't Juliets quin be a team

[MacDougall]

I think the likelihood of Michelle being cop is rather high when you look at how much she tormented Elephant (who she held the scumread on right throughout the entire game from day 1/2) and how insistent she was on several of her reads.

Fwiw I thought maybe you were the cop given how much you were just locktown reading me but now that you're taking this position I guess you aren't.

[juliets]

ok I'll reread and reevaluate your case on Juliets later tonight it's on the checklist

Be sure and read my responses to him too.

[ColinIsCool]

[VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine

Can’t make up my mind about Long Con so. The hand-wavey “only Colin believes I’m 3p” bullshit is, well, demonstrably bullshit and I’m not gonna stand by and watch it happen. If you want us to think you’re a townie you’re better off not trying to distort reality.

[ColinIsCool]

I think we might have gotten all the scum off the 112 wagon. I don’t think Jack would’ve bussed and set himself up to be discovered as such.

[juliets]

well if I'm massively wrong today and Juliets is the scum of the group

does anybody else think Michelle was a cop who knew quin was town

where'd the idea that Michelle was cop surface

why can't Juliets quin be a team

I just went back and re-read some of Michelle. She was sure Pawn and Quin were town. She said she town read Dom, Quin and Pawn - I don't think she checked Dom because she makes a comment about how he is blowing up her SR of him so I think she town read him on behavior. I think she checked Quin and Pawn.

[iaafr]

well if I'm massively wrong today and Juliets is the scum of the group

does anybody else think Michelle was a cop who knew quin was town

where'd the idea that Michelle was cop surface

why can't Juliets quin be a team

I just went back and re-read some of Michelle. She was sure Pawn and Quin were town. She said she town read Dom, Quin and Pawn - I don't think she checked Dom because she makes a comment about how he is blowing up her SR of him so I think she town read him on behavior. I think she checked Quin and Pawn.

still though, where'd the theory that Michelle = cop get brought up in the first place?

[juliets]

well if I'm massively wrong today and Juliets is the scum of the group

does anybody else think Michelle was a cop who knew quin was town

where'd the idea that Michelle was cop surface

why can't Juliets quin be a team

I just went back and re-read some of Michelle. She was sure Pawn and Quin were town. She said she town read Dom, Quin and Pawn - I don't think she checked Dom because she makes a comment about how he is blowing up her SR of him so I think she town read him on behavior. I think she checked Quin and Pawn.

still though, where'd the theory that Michelle = cop get brought up in the first place?

oh, iirc it's because her flip was janitored and she had spent all of phase 5 adamant that Elephant was scum.

[juliets]

[mention]iaafr[/mention] why do you read Quin as scum?

[iaafr]

alright figured it was something like that, if I wanna dig deeper I should do it myself

ugh cold feet on long con = I should reconsider tl? maybe I shouldn't buy his ate cuz he just doesn't really push scum reads? still out for another like 4h

[iaafr]

@iaafr why do you read Quin as scum?

his vote on hyena has literally no progression afaict

that's really the only scummy thing about him, other than that it's negative space / can't find scum elsewhere

[iaafr]

and tone but I'm gonna try to ignore tone stuff today for my mental health

[juliets]

I unvoted Mac, deciding where to go. Probably Long Con.

[iaafr]

I unvoted Mac, deciding where to go. Probably Long Con.

could you summarize everything you consider alignment indicative about TL?