The Wire Mafia [END]

[Jackofhearts2005]

Let's move my sloonei vote to [VOTE: jack] aubergine

Howboudah?

[nutella]

It's Friday the thirteenth. Maybe jack can be lynched.

[Rej]

Caught up a bit will have more thoughts come the night phase voting for rej and sloonie.

I really like the boo case on him and for rej I've been sus on him for awhile.

I'd much rather go with nanook today. But that's not happening so I'm throwing my votes somewhere where Itll do something, bet it'll come back to bite me.

look who pops up when I am working my ass off now

[Jackofhearts2005]

It's Friday the thirteenth. Maybe jack can be lynched.

Wouldn’t count anyway cause there are two players that get lynched today.

[Rej]

It's Friday the thirteenth. Maybe jack can be lynched.

Wouldn’t count anyway cause there are two players that get lynched today.

What is your case on Collin? help me to get uptodate

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

[VOTE: colon] aubergine

Colin is viable, woooooo! Yeah! Let’s kill the no fun zone!

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

(Also he’s greater than rand scum imo)

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I wanna lynch Sig.

Why does nobody wanna lynch sig

Is it because everyone is still vaccinated against lynching sig and I haven't taken the newest dose?

Hey you’re speaking my language, I’m game

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I'll be here at EoD this time to counter any dumb CFD attempts.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

"exudes a certain towniness" is mondo garbo.

The other one is barely better. "slight scumread but, slight scumread but..."

If that's the best he's offering, I call fake.

Sorry about the vote tags.

Idk what to tell you, man. You’ve seen me correctly tone/mindset read these players in the past.

Have I? I can't remember.

I correctly read Nutella in both champs games, Flags and Australian murder mystery.

I’ve correctly meta Creature a buncha times, mostly protecting him from town Epi.

Caught DDL D1 in Adams Family but I’ll need to go look for times I correctly townread him. I don’t think that was actually tone though.

*checking recent games*

Speed’s Persona game was one of the games where Drago caught Rej for anyone questioning that idea. I correctly meta read Creature there. Nutella too from DfuckingZero.

You’re pretty good at this game, uwu

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I'll be here at EoD this time to counter any dumb CFD attempts.

Does sig count or would that be a smart CFD attempt? Cause I’m game tbh

[sig]

I wanna lynch Sig.

Why does nobody wanna lynch sig

Is it because everyone is still vaccinated against lynching sig and I haven't taken the newest dose?

Hey you’re speaking my language, I’m game

Nice moguls

[Rej]

changing from boo to TSP

After TSPs flyby on me I'll trust you over him and move my LC vote to [VOTE: Tony] aubergine

I was skimming through your ISO and I saw you doesn't have any clear stance on Dunya rn or I missed it. I am interested to hear about it since based on her votes she suspects us as scum. I can't get a good read on her rn.

[sig]

Omgus*

[sig]

I'd be down for a CFD on nanook.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Caught up a bit will have more thoughts come the night phase voting for rej and sloonie.

I really like the boo case on him and for rej I've been sus on him for awhile.

I'd much rather go with nanook today. But that's not happening so I'm throwing my votes somewhere where Itll do something, bet it'll come back to bite me.

Setting up the next kill

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

You do suck, but it’s only cause you’re mafia

#gottem

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I'd be down for a CFD on nanook.

There you go, fucking push your read, don’t just “ohh, I guess Nanook is really scummy, but I’m never gonna bother pushing there cause I’d rather save it for tomorrow when I don’t have as many other easy targets.”

[nutella]

I'd be down for a CFD on nanook.

[nutella]

changing from boo to TSP

After TSPs flyby on me I'll trust you over him and move my LC vote to [VOTE: Tony] aubergine

I was skimming through your ISO and I saw you doesn't have any clear stance on Dunya rn or I missed it. I am interested to hear about it since based on her votes she suspects us as scum. I can't get a good read on her rn.

Don't like this

I'm becoming more supportive of the rej lynch by the minute

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Now if you’ll excuse me, I have some pipe to acquire (not a joke or a euphemism, sadly).

I shall return and I expect us to be CFDing onto sig when I do, please and thank you

[nutella]

Idk I kinda think sig vs nanook is t/t

[sig]

I'd be down for a CFD on nanook.

There you go, fucking push your read, don’t just “ohh, I guess Nanook is really scummy, but I’m never gonna bother pushing there cause I’d rather save it for tomorrow when I don’t have as many other easy targets.”

I've laid out my case you haven't done anything overtly scummy, or much of anything. But your reaction to the slightest of pokes is way out of proportion very scummy.

[Rej]

changing from boo to TSP

After TSPs flyby on me I'll trust you over him and move my LC vote to [VOTE: Tony] aubergine

I was skimming through your ISO and I saw you doesn't have any clear stance on Dunya rn or I missed it. I am interested to hear about it since based on her votes she suspects us as scum. I can't get a good read on her rn.

Don't like this

I'm becoming more supportive of the rej lynch by the minute

[sig]

So general thoughts on lc? I've seen back and forth but really no solid consensus. Personally this is the first game in awhile where he doesn't seem scummy to me. Buuuuut, every game I've played where I thought he was scum he was civ. Ergo since I dont suspect him I now do suspect him slightly based of that. I'll be reading through his stuff and see what I see.

[sig]

Idk I kinda think sig vs nanook is t/t

What's he done in your mind that's towney? I totally get the joking around that's fine, but when it's paired with no content and the constant scum chat references it doesn't look as good. Hes also like I said very omgus

[nutella]

So general thoughts on lc? I've seen back and forth but really no solid consensus. Personally this is the first game in awhile where he doesn't seem scummy to me. Buuuuut, every game I've played where I thought he was scum he was civ. Ergo since I dont suspect him I now do suspect him slightly based of that. I'll be reading through his stuff and see what I see.

I feel this. I townread him but with a consistent undercurrent of paranoia. He had me fooled in inception for sure.

[Rej]

So general thoughts on lc? I've seen back and forth but really no solid consensus. Personally this is the first game in awhile where he doesn't seem scummy to me. Buuuuut, every game I've played where I thought he was scum he was civ. Ergo since I dont suspect him I now do suspect him slightly based of that. I'll be reading through his stuff and see what I see.

didnt like his mac and dom interactions earlier in the game
his gif reaction in the NP was fun tho, I liked that
have nothing to say against his vote placements this DP

[nutella]

Idk I kinda think sig vs nanook is t/t

What's he done in your mind that's towney? I totally get the joking around that's fine, but when it's paired with no content and the constant scum chat references it doesn't look as good. Hes also like I said very omgus

He's a slow burn player, he doesn't like to get super involved early on when there are a lot of players to keep track of, but he'll pull his weight later on. I think his jokeyness is good. The omgus is meh but he seems to genuinely believe you'll flip scum.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Idk I kinda think sig vs nanook is t/t

What's he done in your mind that's towney? I totally get the joking around that's fine, but when it's paired with no content and the constant scum chat references it doesn't look as good. Hes also like I said very omgus

He's a slow burn player, he doesn't like to get super involved early on when there are a lot of players to keep track of, but he'll pull his weight later on. I think his jokeyness is good. The omgus is meh but he seems to genuinely believe you'll flip scum.

Heyyy someone gets me.

Also it’s not really fair to dismiss it as OMGUS, it’s not just “you’re sussing me so I’m gonna sus you,” it’s a bit more nuanced than that imo.

[nutella]

I mean of course it's more nuanced, it always is. I think "pure" omgus is a mythical creature. So I generally don't like it as an accusation. But I think your read of sig is largely based on cultural misunderstandings.

[Jackofhearts2005]

changing from boo to TSP

After TSPs flyby on me I'll trust you over him and move my LC vote to [VOTE: Tony] aubergine

I was skimming through your ISO and I saw you doesn't have any clear stance on Dunya rn or I missed it. I am interested to hear about it since based on her votes she suspects us as scum. I can't get a good read on her rn.

Don't like this

I'm becoming more supportive of the rej lynch by the minute

See?

[Sloonei]

Responding to boo point by point:

Part 1 of my probably 1 part series on

Why Sloonei is a Villain Who You Should Help Me String Up

Reason 1: WTF was this vote?

Spoiler: show

I've never watched The Wire. Is there anything I need to know?

A few of DDL’s posts bugged me while I was skimming earlier. His entrance was the first of them. Concerns about flavor knowledge interfering with one’s involvement in the game are almost always unfounded. I don’t believe in the authenticity of this question as an introductory post. It looks awkward.

That was a Day 1 vote for a player who I thought looked bad on a glance and who I wanted to call attention to. That is Mafia 101. Even if I was bad, that vote should not be any indication of my alignment: I had come up with it before I knew I was even entering the game.

Reason 2: Replacing JJJ who had people reading him as Mafia apparently doesn't warrant Sloonei speaking on it, but does warrant mentioning it? Why?

Spoiler: show

Spicy take #2

Sloonei developed his opinion on ddl as a spectator, then replaced into a scum slot, learned ddl is not on his team, and ran with it. And also is teammates with speed.

The first clause is correct. Do you have reason to believe the others? Why is speedchuck my partner?

I entertained the idea that Jay was scum so yeah. Speed is my top suspect, and I didn't like how Jay treated him, and I found your interaction with him compatible as well.

Oh right, I kinda forgot i’m replacing into a player slot that has actually been active. Meh. I can’t speak for anything Jay did in his time here. You’ll all have a read on me before long.

What? Contrary to what others have said, JaggedJimmyJay and I are not the same person. I cannot respond to any accusations that are made against him. Because I don't know why he said or did anything in this game. He's not me. That is the entirety of my point here. This is bullshit.

Reason 3: Talks a lot about how he can't be around a lot and be well informed; but has (as of this writing) 220 posts, the 2nd most.

Spoiler: show

I have a busy afternoon today. I expect to be around for the deadline, but I’ll be mostly uninformed at that stage. I’ll do my best to make things happen, but don’t expect much from me until then.

I am varying degrees of here from now until the deadline and I will not be actively catching up.

Dom has a lead in the poll. Why is that?
The only other player with multiples is DDL, and I am one of those. My vote is not super informed. We've got a hundred people with single votes. Let's get crazy over the next few hours.
@everyone which players would you feel most comfortable lynching right now?

This is a point against me? I try to be honest about where I'm at, just as I like for other players to do the same. That means I'm going to let y'all know when I expect to be in the thread. You'll notice that when I am here, I'm here. I'm trying to solve the game. But I have other things in my life that aren't a mafia game.

Reason 4: Consistenly asking for things already discussed in thread that he has apparently missed and uses as an opportunity to 'engage' people by asking for more. Does not actually then follow up on almost any of it in a meaningful way though.

Spoiler: show

Speed isn't thinking critically on enough levels he's just calling things scummy that aren't really. He's scum

I want examples! Give me some examples! I assume you’ve already given examples, but I haven’t been laying attention and i’m on my phone!

basically he's calling rej scum for not having a coherent stance on drago. I don't have a coherent stance on drago either so idk why that's sus

I feel like there is more to speedchuck’s read than that. He seems to be beefing with the particular language of rej’s post, arguing that it lacks direction rather than simply being non-committal. Is there anything else?

The bulk of Dom's focus has been on Jack and nutella so far. His vote is currently on Jack. This poked piqued my interest:

Nutella has said pretty much nothing this game.

But she's used a lot of players' names.

Bro I have the second most posts in the game and most of them are content. I've definitely given more reads than you have. You haven't even explained your vote for me lol.

Usually when you go after me like this you're town... but I thought something had changed the last couple times we were town together, and then last game we were scum buddies so you saw my shitty scum game up close. So you should know better by now. Find another way to stir things up, maybe talk about someone other than me for once.

WARNING! This post contains:
--Gambler's Fallacy
--Appeal to Emotion
--Assumption of The Future Being Like the Past
--Bullshit

@nutella is @Jackofhearts2005 full of shit?

Does the combination of Gambler's Fallacy, Appeal to Emotion, Assumptions of Chronology, and Bullshit indicate that nutella is bad in this instance? Could you more directly articulate why Jack is full of poop?
Are there any other names you'd like to talk about, Dom?

...Dom doesn't seem outside his normal civ meta.

Is that really true though?

Take a look at Dom's ISO in Girl Genius. He was Civ, I think the "main" Civ? I think the differences are pretty striking.

The D1 differences? Browsing that, it doesn't read that different to me. Do you have any specifically damning differences in mind?

In this game, the bulk of his posts are about calling things bullshit and firing off mirroring questions with no evidence of caring about the answers. In Girl Genius, he was more interactive, gave reads, agreed or disagreed with people, and said things like "It matters that you have avoided answering direct questions."

Did anyone avoid answering his direct questions in this game? Can you tell if he even cares?

Do you make anything of Dom's focus being mostly centered around Jack and nutella?

Yes, underwhelming. This post contains a scum read on dunya, no direct read on Dom, and a vote for Dom. Why not vote for dunya, nanook?

I was voting for Dunya, but we're at the point where voting for someone by myself is functionally the same as not voting, which is heresy.

We've got two hours left and no clear frontrunner. Why give up on the case that easily? Talk to me about dunya.

I guess I should probably have a vote down (oh timers how I miss ye), so I'm putting it on dunya for shading good and accurate mafia philosophy for no apparent reason.

I guess I should probably put it on mac for distancing purposes but that's OK, we can distance later.

[VOTE: Dunya] aubergine

That is not how I read the exchange between you and dunya at all.

I mean...was it not obvious I manufactured that read wholesale?

How are you approaching this game right now? What is your mindset and strategy?

His (DoWm's) level of critical engagement has been a little less than I'm used to seeing. I don't find that in itself to be a particularly inspiring case, but it's worth exploring.

That's where I'm at, actually. I'm not super-inspired by the Dom vote either, and I wouldn't be surprised if a Dom lynch ended badly. When I went to compare the two games, I kept an open mind... if I had seen the same Dom, then I would have posted about it. Like I said, I found the differences striking, and it served to solidify my vote more. The scales are unbalanced without Dom here to defend himself, but I'm on the heavy side of the scales.. something else will have to tip the balance enough to chanfge my vote, if Dom isn't going to bring the weight down.

I have a sexy angleshooting alternate vote in mind, but I won't discuss that openly... I'll just let it inform my vote should the winds blow that way.

Who else is worth looking at?

There's a fuckton of examples for this point (I included only a handful), and it's a big one for why I don't trust him.

Dunya even calls Sloonei out on it, and Sloonei claims he has been following up as he is able (while in reality, at this point in N1, imo there are 0 posts where Sloonei is following up on questions he threw out in any meaningful way).

Spoiler: show

Sloonei's iso is made up of 100 shooting questions with about 5% follow up rate. Bad.

Also the desperation to lynch someone that isn't Dom comes through. What's worse for a mafia team than losing an absent teammember on day 1? Nothing. I'm not at all convinced he was convinced drago was the best option. He actively tries to persuade himself to.

Also I sense serious defensiveness or hesitation. He says LC is the person he trusts most. When questioned about why, he answers meekly and then follows it up with "but he's gone quiet so...". Not a fan of that part.

No follow up? I was following up when I could. I was also trying to grasp as many things as I could. Nearly all of that ISO came in a very short window right at the end of the phase. That was my process of catching up on the game while also trying to develop reads and decide on a vote.

Also my bit about LC going quiet was not meant as a retraction of my town read on him. I was mentioning it because I wanted his voice to be part of the discussion that was ongoing at the time. Because I trusted him and still do. Fuck saying that was a meek read, I believe firmly in it.

I get accused of shit like this in every game I ever play. I ask questions. In this particular game, I also subbed in late in Day 1 and did not have time to read everything, so my "catching up" process involved talking directly to people. Sometimes that means I ask them to repeat themselves. I have no problem if someone asks me to repeat something I've already said. There's a lot of posts in mafia games. It's more efficient if we just put information out there when it becomes relevant, rather than expecting others to dig through the muck to find out what's happening.

I don't care if you feel like I'm "following up" or not. I have a lot of reasons to ask questions. The general goal is to help me form reads on people, but that doesn't need to be an immediate result. Questions lay the groundwork for later. Do you feel like I have failed to develop reads on people?

Reason 5: The D1 Lynch, Drago, and Dom

1. Defended Dom hard, but did not actually ever genuinely feel like he actually cared about the lynch result imo.
   Spoiler: show

   Voting for Dom feels like a shrug. I am not inclined to cast a shrug vote on Day 1 for a player like Dom. He's going to give us more content to assess later on regardless of his alginment.
   
   boo's case against Colin seems to hinge upon, or at least imply, that we are bad together. I can't vote for that case. I think I like that boo presented the case, though.
   
   DDL, Drago, and Rej are three names I've seen floated in conversations. Who wants to ketch me up to speed on them?

That is a hard defense of Dom to you? I was ambivalent toward Dom. My main objection to his lynch was the lack of energy on his bandwagon, which I see you've objected to below.

[*] Said the following:

I think Rej is fitting what little I understand of his town meta. Drago I haven't seen enough from yet to feel strongly about.

I feel like i have seen more proactive version of Dragomir in previous games. But that includes Day 1 of Inception, when he was mafia.

But still pushed for a Drago lynch.

Uh.... yeah? You're 2 for 2 on misreading me here. That's a statement of suspicion against Dragomir. It is not a lock solid read and I was considering a recent scum performance of his as well. That was not enough to sway me from my vote. This is also bullshit.

[*] Straight up lies about the votes Dom took:

I wouldn’t say that I was trying to move the narrative away from Dom. There wasn’t really a narrative on Dom, at least not while I was present (which was mostly just the final 2 hours of the day). I am uneasy about the Dom bandwagon in hindsight because it simply existed: no one seemed to believe all that much in it and no progress was being made on it, but nobody was moving their votes away from it either. It feels like he was mislynch bait.

Sloonei was trying to move the narrative from Dom to Drago.
There was a narrative on Dom, and I do not believe at all that Sloonei was unaware of it. LC and I discussed it a fair bit.
[/list]

What part of this is a lie? While I was in the thread, there was no progression at all on the Dom suspicion. His bandwagon pre-existed my entry towards the end of day 1 (that is, the period of time for which I was available. Not my literal entry into this game). Dom had 4 or 5 votes, but none of them felt like they had much conviction at all, and absolutely nobody was bringing anything new to the table. Dom was just a name who was receiving votes. That is my perspective. For the third time in this post, it is bullshit for you to characterize this as a lie. I entered the thread for the final 2 hours of a 48 hour phase and tried to develop my reads and make things happen as much as I could in that time.

[nutella]

changing from boo to TSP

After TSPs flyby on me I'll trust you over him and move my LC vote to [VOTE: Tony] aubergine

I was skimming through your ISO and I saw you doesn't have any clear stance on Dunya rn or I missed it. I am interested to hear about it since based on her votes she suspects us as scum. I can't get a good read on her rn.

Don't like this

I'm becoming more supportive of the rej lynch by the minute

See?

Down, puppy.

[sig]

So general thoughts on lc? I've seen back and forth but really no solid consensus. Personally this is the first game in awhile where he doesn't seem scummy to me. Buuuuut, every game I've played where I thought he was scum he was civ. Ergo since I dont suspect him I now do suspect him slightly based of that. I'll be reading through his stuff and see what I see.

didnt like his mac and dom interactions earlier in the game
his gif reaction in the NP was fun tho, I liked that
have nothing to say against his vote placements this DP

Looking over his posts he does flip flop a bit with dom he seems really committed to his vote then switched it up. Which is a bit sketchy, but overall I'd say hes a player to watch but not lynch this phase.

[sig]

It would be really fun to make this a 5 way tie tbh

[ColinIsCool]

How do phone users play mafia even

Poorly

Gimme reads on rej, boo, and nutella.

Rej: no read, idk that man

boo: flip flopping, thought town yesterday, now it seems like they keep digging themselves in a hole logically b/w their suspicion of me (and apparently abandoning it) and the insistence on culling Zemmi, I might vote here

nutella: town

What gave you a "slight gut read" of Rej yesterday?

I err on the side of suspicion sometimes.

[ColinIsCool]

My 2 top candidates I think are boo and Sloonei/speedchuck (because I’m vibing with nutella rn)

Are speedchuck and I partners then?

Hmm. Good question but I’m not one to do interactive reads without a flip

[Sloonei]

How do phone users play mafia even

Poorly

Gimme reads on rej, boo, and nutella.

Rej: no read, idk that man

boo: flip flopping, thought town yesterday, now it seems like they keep digging themselves in a hole logically b/w their suspicion of me (and apparently abandoning it) and the insistence on culling Zemmi, I might vote here

nutella: town

What gave you a "slight gut read" of Rej yesterday?

I err on the side of suspicion sometimes.

Can you point to anything in particular that gave you that gut read?

[ColinIsCool]

This also might fall under the category of “things you think but don’t say,” but fuck it—I’m kinda surprised that there’s been continual suspicion of me to the point that even having read at most a third of the thread I’m aware of it, and yet there’s nobody voting me. Says to me there’s probably scum (Colin) in the people (Colin) sharing me without voting (Colin), cause someone (Colin) is probably trying to set me up in future days for a mis-kill (Colin).

Yeah it’s me, the scum trying so hard to kill you. Bud I can barely put my pants on in the morning, I don’t have time to do this multi-day scheming for a guy who’s Wilgyposting

[ColinIsCool]

How do phone users play mafia even

Poorly

Gimme reads on rej, boo, and nutella.

Rej: no read, idk that man

boo: flip flopping, thought town yesterday, now it seems like they keep digging themselves in a hole logically b/w their suspicion of me (and apparently abandoning it) and the insistence on culling Zemmi, I might vote here

nutella: town

What gave you a "slight gut read" of Rej yesterday?

I err on the side of suspicion sometimes.

Can you point to anything in particular that gave you that gut read?

Yeah, gimme a sec to finish catching up.

[ColinIsCool]

Why I’m voting for colin

I don’t get the part where you said there should be Boo shade.

nutella and boo expressed suspicion of Colin for essentially the same reason.
Regarding nutella, Colin said, "I don’t know if I can find a way to believe that you believe this weird convoluted backstory to the most flippant post I’ve made all game."
Regarding boo, he said, "I give him towncred for that whole weird suspicion of me. It’s not correct but I think it comes from the right mindset of actually trying to find things and it’s the right amount of paranoid."

I’m more familiar with nutella than boo. I expect more out of nutella, too.

[Sloonei]

Can we start to move our votes off of me now?

[Dragon D. Luffy]

I'll be here at EoD this time to counter any dumb CFD attempts.

Does sig count or would that be a smart CFD attempt? Cause I’m game tbh

It's still too soon to be called CFD tbh.

CFD is when people start a flash wagon 5 minutes from the deadline to prevent mafia from having time to think.

The problem is that this strategy is also very good at prevent townies from thinking.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

You say 5 minutes, I say semantics

[ColinIsCool]

For me all three of Tony, Colin, and Sig are in a weird place where I want to suspect them overall but they each had like one post that felt really towny.

Sig is pretty damn town imo

[ColinIsCool]

[VOTE: colon] aubergine

Colin is viable, woooooo! Yeah! Let’s kill the no fun zone!

You know a lot of my good friends call me Colon.

[Dragon D. Luffy]

Changing jack vote to Sig

[boo]

I'll be here at EoD this time to counter any dumb CFD attempts.

What's CFD stand for?

[nutella]

For me all three of Tony, Colin, and Sig are in a weird place where I want to suspect them overall but they each had like one post that felt really towny.

Sig is pretty damn town imo

Yeah I'm thinking that now, and you too actually.