Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [GAME OVER]

[nutella]

connection getting spotty, will probably be flying until EOD, so I’ll have to catch you guys later. Might be able to check once we stop in Germany for fuel

I’ll be home just in time to participate in a normal time zone

welcome home!!!

[nutella]

I mean, nutella, thing is Jack has been building his read on you from the start of the game. His progression read to me as a town progression rather than something pre-planned, as he kind of got there and didn't use this history to leverage a scum read on you out of the blue, if it makes any sense. I don't think scum!Jack goes into the game singling you out and I think that would've been a much more sudden, "in your face" kind of scum read that lacks any build up, if he was gonna use his history with you against you.

Fair enough. I'm just baffled at his sudden confidence after his own admission that I could just be town.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

http://www.mafiathesyndicate.com/viewto ... Australian

JaggedJimmyJay
juliets
sprityo
And anyone else who may think I’m too serious to be townJack or that I could be wrong or lying about Nutella being mafia, read my interactions with Nutella in that link with the knowledge that I am town and she’s a wolf.

This game is practically a rerun.

I've reviewed this at least quickly. A few notes:

~ nutella's responses to your suspicion in that game do not look like this one. In that game her initial responses were almost fluffy and jovial -- she used "lol" and laugh emojis and made a Pokemon joke. Eventually she lost that persona after constant hounding from you, but even then she was a piece of wood. She was serious and obstinate, but she was emotionless. This time she has responded to you with proverbial ~angery~ energy.

~ Your own handling of nutella looks similar enough at the onset. The comparison here is a bit difficult to draw given that I don't think she handled you the same way then, which then leads to differences in your handling of her. At the least though I can see some parallel.

Primarily, consider following this exercise yourself with your present read on nutella in mind rather than [people's] present reads on you.

[S~V~S]

Spoiler: show

[VOTE: Jackofhearts2005] aubergine

Dance.

[snip]

I don’t care about this nanook sig radishes kerfuffle that happened between pages 6 and 10 roughly, I’m gonna go out on a limb and say jack is mafia this game. Just pure gut. I have no reason other than I think it.

[snip]

[VOTE: Jackofhearts2005] aubergine

Per the rules,

10. Character claiming, roleclaiming and infodumping are illegal. You may say whatever you like in BTSC.



Plus this just reads like the classic baddie "valuable civvie" ploy (it used to have a spiffy name, but I forget what it was). "If you try to lynch me, you will be sorry." More than anything else you have said, this post makes me think you're bad, and you weren't King of my Shining Civvie Hill before this post.

[VOTE: Jack] aubergine for now, it may change, but this post is like a "HI! I'M BADDIE McBADDERSON" nametag in my eyes.

Jesus Christ....

My role isn’t unlynchable.

I, Jackofhearts2005, am unlynchable as a player. I have been playing mafia for 14 years and been mislynched like 5 times total.

Let's lynch this guy.

Jack votes other than nutella and I. I'll get into her later, there's a whole Jack/nutella Thing to review. Epi's vote is standard fare, and I won't bother interpreting it until I see what he does with any resulting Jack dancing. sprityo's motivation isn't far removed from my own. Pretty much gut stuff; his reads look random. S~V~S's vote looks extremely authentic to me, because she has not likely been around the site to be familiar with Jack's running "unlynchable" gag. Dom's vote exists. There's the only name on the wagon that immediately perturbs me.

I was unaware of this, although I do recall him saying it in a (I think) crossover game when he was bad teammates with Nutella, and I spent the whole game screaming to everyone that he was bad, and everyone ignored me. Good times

But for now I am still OK with my vote as that was what pushed it over the top for me; he was the person I mostly was pinged by before the Baddiesplosion becasue I feel there was a baddie benefit for at least one team to Vanilla, and of the Vanilla voters, Jacks vote was most drive by, followed by G Man. And I trust Nutellas read of him, and based on what I am seeing, I trust her.

It's early, there is time to move votes, but for now, I like my vote where it is.

Will fully catch up after work. Hasta la vista, honeys!

[nutella]

Will be totally offline for the next three hours btw I know y'all will miss me

[JaggedJimmyJay]

[VOTE: Master Radishes] aubergine

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Can someone explain the radishes case to be? Is it just “he hasn’t made enough of an impression”?

[Master Radishes]

Can someone explain the radishes case to be? Is it just “he hasn’t made enough of an impression”?

I think my posts have been deemed fake.


--


@ all

Back from work and making dinner and such. I've been skimming during breaks at work, but need to catch up on the last few pages and read some things properly.

[Master Radishes]

This post caught my eye.

Independent of all this: how do we all feel about master radishes?

Not great. I get the feeling that his presence is a bit flashy/comes across as performative. It's something I've seen with experienced players that they want to be a bit edgy/go against the grain give the impression that they are confident and have nothing to hide when they are scum. Compensating. Like when they asked "are we all seriously reading into ice cream flavors" (<-- from memory, might not be exact) or something like that. I don't know if I explain this right, but "performative" is what comes to mind and it feels not great.

I get what you mean about this completely; you're just misinterpreting where the 'performative' bit (maybe not the right word - more like adopting a persona?) comes from. I'm playing in a game with a bunch of people I don't know but who know each other, but have the confidence to 'go against the grain' as you say, as this isn't my first rodeo. I'm not consciously adopting a persona (okay, that was also the wrong phrase) but, yeah, my internet/mafia style tends towards dismissive and sarcastic in the early stages of games, especially on sites I'm not familiar with.

I singled this post out as well, though, because the thought process to me seems good. It's easy for scum looking to slip onto a wagon to pile on me today (I'm the third, less noticed wheel) but this isn't the way a scum would do it. This is an actual attempt to parse my behaviour.

I'm hesitant to declare anyone a green read in a multiball game where I don't know anyone's meta, but so far Dizzy (you gave permission!) is nudging upwards the most in my books with this thought process and general solid enough play.

[Master Radishes]

I've not played a game with multiple mafia teams in...at least 6 years?

Everytime I get a thought about a player I have to add a caveat to it. I don't like so many caveated thoughts.

[Master Radishes]

I've not voted yet so I haven't seen the poll. Who is in the 4th slot on Nutella, Jack, and/or me?

Thar be scum. Bet me.

[juliets]

Can someone explain the radishes case to be? Is it just “he hasn’t made enough of an impression”?

As I was reading through today every time I came to a Radish vote it seemed like it was out of the blue so I also have the same question as Nanook. What is the case? Maybe people made one a long the way and I just didn't put all the pieces together but if so please put it together for me.

I'm feeling good about sig, Dizzy, JaggedJay, ted and SVS and I'm starting to feel better about Nanook. There are probably more but I'm tired at the moment and not remembering everyone.

I need to read Jack's ISO to get a better handle on him. I can understand Nutella's frustration because bad Jack "tunneled" me twice when I was civ in separate games and it was infuriating. Still, I'm not sure that's what's going on here and I need to put together why he's got so many votes. I am notoriously bad at reading Jack though as everyone who played Inception remembers I'm sure.

S~V~S's thoughts on nutella sway me to start leaning town on her. I will ISO her as well just to make sure.

As I said, I'm tired and not feeling well at the moment so I'm going to rest for a bit and come back to start digging in.

[Master Radishes]

Yeah, okay, I don't have the time or will to slog through the thread again. Just...give me someone(s) to ISO or summat.

[Dyslexicon]

No, I don’t. Because it wasn’t a real read. It was a joke.

I have put other real reads out, you can find them in my iso.

Do you mean actual joke or just not serious read? Cause you just flat out said me and Sloonei has good scum equity. I don't see the punchline. It's fine that it was early, and it's fine if it's not relevant to you anymore. I just don't understand what the "joke" is.

That was sarcasm my friend.

Well duh. That wasn't my point.

[Dyslexicon]

Yeah, okay, I don't have the time or will to slog through the thread again. Just...give me someone(s) to ISO or summat.

Sloonei and Ted pops into my head as interesting ISOs for what it's worth.

[Dyslexicon]

I feel I have reasons to town read Nanook, but it's honestly kind of hard to keep. Seems like he's contrarian to about anything you say. If you are him scum for reasons he's like "Omg no" and if you read him town for reasons he's like "Lol no". But you know...

[Sloonei]

I've not played a game with multiple mafia teams in...at least 6 years?

Everytime I get a thought about a player I have to add a caveat to it. I don't like so many caveated thoughts.

I’d like to hear those thoughts, caveats and all

[Master Radishes]

Yeah, okay, I don't have the time or will to slog through the thread again. Just...give me someone(s) to ISO or summat.

Sloonei and Ted pops into my head as interesting ISOs for what it's worth.

Okie dokie.

Pre-ISO impressions:

Ted - liked his opening; I'd lean towards saying it's townie, with the caveat of a scum working hard to find the other team
Sloonei - when initially catching up on opening posts, I felt good about him; as I interacted with him in real time, I wasn't sure why; he feels quite reserved and prone to asking questions rather than help scumhunt - maybe that's his meta?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

No, I don’t. Because it wasn’t a real read. It was a joke.

I have put other real reads out, you can find them in my iso.

Do you mean actual joke or just not serious read? Cause you just flat out said me and Sloonei has good scum equity. I don't see the punchline. It's fine that it was early, and it's fine if it's not relevant to you anymore. I just don't understand what the "joke" is.

That was sarcasm my friend.

Well duh. That wasn't my point.

Read through my ISO then cause I’ve explained it to other people and I don’t feel like going through it again.


I wasn’t being self-deprecating is my point, I was being sarcastic.

[Dyslexicon]

His case on me is literally "she's doing things she does when town, so she's totally a wolf pretending to be town.... or she's just town lolshrug." He actually said that last part. Kind of amazing really.

Ok, but your fight is kind of boring ngl. It's seems devoid of substance or at best filled with history I don't know about.

Saying you are waiting for Jack to change his mind doesn't really give him any out if he is in fact town and does in fact change his mind. I mean, have the read on him that you want.

I also don't get Jack's so sure read on you. Is that normal for Jack, anyone? I seem to remember a more tempered town!Jack.

Anyway Nut/Jack isn't really interesting to me right now. They make a lot of noise, but I bet there's many many scum among the people not making any waves right now.

[Master Radishes]

I've not played a game with multiple mafia teams in...at least 6 years?

Everytime I get a thought about a player I have to add a caveat to it. I don't like so many caveated thoughts.

I’d like to hear those thoughts, caveats and all

The caveats are pretty much the same caveat, e.g. 'Player X seems to be working hard to solve the game; this is a good look for them...except if they're just on scum team 1 and are looking for scum team 2.'

Ted and Sig pop into mind when I think of this.

Another example: normally I'd say Turnip's vote on me feels natural enough, as he hinted at it in earlier posts; but then again, if he's Scum A who wants to slip onto a non-leading wagon he thinks could be Scum B, then he's played it exactly right.

[Dyslexicon]

Read through my ISO then cause I’ve explained it to other people and I don’t feel like going through it again.

I wasn’t being self-deprecating is my point, I was being sarcastic.

What will you do to identify a correct lynch choice for today?

[Dyslexicon]

The caveats are pretty much the same caveat, e.g. 'Player X seems to be working hard to solve the game; this is a good look for them...except if they're just on scum team 1 and are looking for scum team 2.'

Ted and Sig pop into mind when I think of this.

Another example: normally I'd say Turnip's vote on me feels natural enough, as he hinted at it in earlier posts; but then again, if he's Scum A who wants to slip onto a non-leading wagon he thinks could be Scum B, then he's played it exactly right.

Yeah, multiball sucks. But some players are just pure in heart. Like me. <3 I read your post to/about me, will respond.

[Master Radishes]

I also don't get Jack's so sure read on you. Is that normal for Jack, anyone? I seem to remember a more tempered town!Jack.

In my single game (Inception, a few months ago) Jack looked like he was trying to play like he is now, but without being too noticeable. He was scum in that game, so in retrospect I feel like he was trying to imitate his town game as he perceives it.

This makes me hesitate to vote Jack right now, as much as his overall play has been a bit questionable.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

I feel I have reasons to town read Nanook, but it's honestly kind of hard to keep. Seems like he's contrarian to about anything you say. If you are him scum for reasons he's like "Omg no" and if you read him town for reasons he's like "Lol no". But you know...

I’m fun aren’t I?

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Read through my ISO then cause I’ve explained it to other people and I don’t feel like going through it again.

I wasn’t being self-deprecating is my point, I was being sarcastic.

What will you do to identify a correct lynch choice for today?

Idk. I’m strongly considering rng within a group of like 18, tbh. Or maybe I’ll just OMGUS, idk. I’ve been pretty upfront that I think today is near-rand for me to pick out scum from town.

[Dyslexicon]

I'm liking Ted's interaction with Nut.

[Dyslexicon]

I had/have liked your tone. You've seemed like the classic free-flowing post-whatever I'll Make Waves When I Get To It Dyslexicon I most associate with my internal Dyslexicon lexicon. I don't get the impression you're trying to look like something.

I've appreciated ted's barbed, no-nonsense go at the thread. His first move was to shit directly into my very own Corn Flakes. Given that he [to my memory] has not played with me before but has some conception of JaggedJimmyJay gives that motion an emboldened solver look that I like.

Ok. I'm sure I'm able to have "good tone" as scum too. And I hadn't really gotten to it, as you say, when you town read me. But sure, you're not wrong lol.

And I agree on Ted now that I've paid more attention there.

[Dyslexicon]

I'm really not sure how I feel about Jimmaaay. He seems kind of controlled or something, which is possibly oof. ButwhatdoIknownothing.

[sabie12]

Hey svs! it's been awhile since we've been in a game together.
I see the votes on jack and I'm not sure. I thought i had a good idea of Jack's gameplay but I've been wrong a couple times. I feel like he tries really hard to blend in and look civ when he's bad and has been a more aggressive and jokey player when civ. He accused nutella in another game and ended up getting mislynched early on and was right about her. Nutella can be difficult to read at times but I have been able to read her correctly before. When I have more time later I'll have to read through their ISOs

Nanook was bad last game I played in and he was good at seeming like a civilian for awhile. I actually only started suspecting him towards the end. I haven't had a chance to look over his civ gameplay style to see if it is similar.
I saw JJJ put me in the bottom part of the reads when I haven't even done anything yet or is it because I haven't done anything yet? I didn't even know the game had started and it's a lot to catch up on. I'm not super talkative in the beginning of games sometimes but I'm trying to get better at it.

Sabie Sabie. I didn’t get mislynched. I can even physically be mislynched.

I gathered a few votes and then told Nutella she better shoot me and claim the mafia was trying to frame her, which is exactly what she did.

I’ve correctly read Nutella like 8 games running on D1. She’s a baddie.

Oh right yeah sorry it was tony who also suspected nutella that game that got mislynched. Then I told everyone hey maybe they were right about nutella and she ended up being bad. Point is this seemed like a similar situation.



I'm heading home from work now and I'll catch up on what's been happening the last 8 hours. Haven't had a chance to read everything yet.

[Master Radishes]

[mention]Dyslexicon[/mention]

ISO on Ted in some random order:

(There's no specific post that I find particularly AI, so I won't quote anything, but...)

-He bounces his reads around a bit (claims his page 2 reads based on 'swag' are serious, but never comes back to it; suddenly drops a vote on Nutella and only gives a reason for it later; then switches to vote me, again without justification), but doesn't try to justify his progression. Maybe a bouncy scum, but I get the impression he just doesn't care how he comes across. Good look.

-His tone is consistent - loose and carefree and not afraid to be a bit fun, but easily switches back to serious gameplay when necessary. Another good look of someone who isn't worried about how they come across.

-He isn't trying to stand out or lead a charge or anything, but equally isn't afraid to engage in discussions, even ones that don't involve him. No waffling on reads, just straight to the point. Also something I consider a good look.


Overall, ISOing Ted has made me nudge him from null+ to a lightish green. Macro play is decent so far, in the sense he doesn't seem concerned about his image.

[Master Radishes]

I'm really not sure how I feel about Jimmaaay. He seems kind of controlled or something, which is possibly oof. ButwhatdoIknownothing.

I sort of liked his play from what I'd noticed, but his vote on me is very wagony.



Will ISO Sloonei in a bit, as requested.

[Dyslexicon]

I think my posts have been deemed fake.

Self awareness.

[Dyslexicon]

I sort of liked his play from what I'd noticed, but his vote on me is very wagony.

Will ISO Sloonei in a bit, as requested.

I'm distrustful. Cindy Kate has some very good mafia players and a mafia bias in general (not as strong town play as mafia play imo). Though Jimmaaay has often been town and is very good at that and very active. I'm just a bit extra careful. Same with Sloonei. And probably others tbh. But it's not like I have a conclusion anyway.

[Dyslexicon]

I get what you mean about this completely; you're just misinterpreting where the 'performative' bit (maybe not the right word - more like adopting a persona?) comes from. I'm playing in a game with a bunch of people I don't know but who know each other, but have the confidence to 'go against the grain' as you say, as this isn't my first rodeo. I'm not consciously adopting a persona (okay, that was also the wrong phrase) but, yeah, my internet/mafia style tends towards dismissive and sarcastic in the early stages of games, especially on sites I'm not familiar with.

I guess I'd say it sounds like posturing. Also a bit aloof. I read back in your ISO now and I still don't get a good vibe. I don't understand why the "Are we ever going to stop talking about the significance of ice cream flavor and do I need to care?" exists. I don't care for the "I like sloonei but I don't remember why", which you also did with Nut later. That's the kind of lolzy aloof attitude I'm comfortable holding up myself as scum. I realize I'm just reiterating my points again. I just don't think my feelings have changed. Though I do appreciate you being active and involved in the game, whether my read is correct or not.

[Dyslexicon]

Is there any reason not to go for a wagon on Mac, Juliets, G-man or Sabie or someone? I realize Sabie said she was going to catch up, so I could wait for that. But all of these are underwhelming to me.

[Dyslexicon]

I've not voted yet so I haven't seen the poll. Who is in the 4th slot on Nutella, Jack, and/or me?

Thar be scum. Bet me.

I don't think the votes are ordered so in that case you'll have to go back and see. Are you saying the 4th vote on a wagon is scum? Cause...? I don't believe in number magic in mafia myself but ok.

[Sloonei]

Yeah, okay, I don't have the time or will to slog through the thread again. Just...give me someone(s) to ISO or summat.

Sloonei and Ted pops into my head as interesting ISOs for what it's worth.

Okie dokie.

Pre-ISO impressions:

Ted - liked his opening; I'd lean towards saying it's townie, with the caveat of a scum working hard to find the other team
Sloonei - when initially catching up on opening posts, I felt good about him; as I interacted with him in real time, I wasn't sure why; he feels quite reserved and prone to asking questions rather than help scumhunt - maybe that's his meta?

What does this mean? How do you distinguish my questions from something that you would call scumhunting?

[Dyslexicon]

I appreciate Radishes content, but I still don't trust him. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But also

[VOTE: Juliets] aubergine

I've not seen anything for her that sticks out or anything that she couldn't also just say as scum. I cri evertim.

[Dyslexicon]

Sig, will you ever stop tunnelling Nanook? Do you have other scum reads?

[Dyslexicon]

I wish we could multilynch. Scum the lot of you.

[Sloonei]

I appreciate Radishes content, but I still don't trust him. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But also

[VOTE: Juliets] aubergine

I've not seen anything for her that sticks out or anything that she couldn't also just say as scum. I cri evertim.

I am currently town-reading juliets. Can you convince me otherwise?

[Dyslexicon]

I am currently town-reading juliets. Can you convince me otherwise?

No. There's nothing there afaic.
Can you explain why you read her town?

[Sloonei]

I am currently town-reading juliets. Can you convince me otherwise?

No. There's nothing there afaic.
Can you explain why you read her town?

My perception of town juliets is that her early-game efforts are mostly spent keeping tabs on things, making sure she understands what's going on, before diving into things later on. When I've caught her as scum in the past (once, maybe twice?) it was because she was a bit flat and not so forthcoming. She's looked more like the former so far here.

[Dyslexicon]

My perception of town juliets is that her early-game efforts are mostly spent keeping tabs on things, making sure she understands what's going on, before diving into things later on. When I've caught her as scum in the past (once, maybe twice?) it was because she was a bit flat and not so forthcoming. She's looked more like the former so far here.

Ok. But I'm impatient.

[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

Any reason I should town read you? Cause I don't.

[S~V~S]

Yeah, okay, I don't have the time or will to slog through the thread again. Just...give me someone(s) to ISO or summat.

Sloonei and Ted pops into my head as interesting ISOs for what it's worth.

Okie dokie.

Pre-ISO impressions:

Ted - liked his opening; I'd lean towards saying it's townie, with the caveat of a scum working hard to find the other team
Sloonei - when initially catching up on opening posts, I felt good about him; as I interacted with him in real time, I wasn't sure why; he feels quite reserved and prone to asking questions rather than help scumhunt - maybe that's his meta?

What does this mean? How do you distinguish my questions from something that you would call scumhunting?

Asking questions is a very valid way to find baddies. I have heard people say this before, and I am not sure what it means, tbh.

And noone asked me, but I think Jules is town based on how she answered a direct question. Her activity level is not generally alignment indicative. If anything I think she might post more when bad because she worries about being a low poster blendy baddie.

I thought she had some good content in her last two posts, too.

[Sloonei]

My perception of town juliets is that her early-game efforts are mostly spent keeping tabs on things, making sure she understands what's going on, before diving into things later on. When I've caught her as scum in the past (once, maybe twice?) it was because she was a bit flat and not so forthcoming. She's looked more like the former so far here.

Ok. But I'm impatient.

[VOTE: Sloonei] aubergine

Any reason I should town read you? Cause I don't.

You've been saying this all game and haven't even hinted at a reason why. Why?

[Dyslexicon]

Ok, good. Maybe Juliets is town or at least not da evils.

[Master Radishes]

Yeah, okay, I don't have the time or will to slog through the thread again. Just...give me someone(s) to ISO or summat.

Sloonei and Ted pops into my head as interesting ISOs for what it's worth.

Okie dokie.

Pre-ISO impressions:

Ted - liked his opening; I'd lean towards saying it's townie, with the caveat of a scum working hard to find the other team
Sloonei - when initially catching up on opening posts, I felt good about him; as I interacted with him in real time, I wasn't sure why; he feels quite reserved and prone to asking questions rather than help scumhunt - maybe that's his meta?

What does this mean? How do you distinguish my questions from something that you would call scumhunting?

Perhaps poorly phrased on my part, but I don't consider asking question after question to constitute 'scumhunting' unless it leads somewhere. You're throwing out dozens of questions to people and there's little evidence you've gotten anything out of them. It's one of those little things baddies (if I can say that) will try to do to appear more active and engaged than they are.

--

To save a post, I'll complete my ISO of Sloonei here:

Basically gonna cop out and say: I think I need meta and/or just to wait for later rounds to read him properly. Over half his posts are questions to other players, most of which aren't then followed up. (Already discussed above - not a fan of it.)

But then there are moments where he's clearly not afraid to prod others, e.g. with ted early on ('like he was trying to shove me away'), or sig shortly after that (what 'antsy' means). He's equally not interested in letting bad lines of inquiry play out (Nanook's 'satire' post; Radishes' use of 'baddie') which he suggests shutting down in both cited cases. He also banters when he sees an opportunity ('Mac's big D' etc) which shows he's loose, even as the game began to turn more serious.

But, as ever, caveats and all that. This isn't un-fakeable by any means.

So Sloonei remains pretty null for me until I see more. I'm not TRing him, but at the moment not inclined to vote here.

[Dyslexicon]

You've been saying this all game and haven't even hinted at a reason why. Why?

Well, strike the beginning of the game, cause I hadn't even read your posts. But I don't really remember much from your posts tbh. So maybe a better question is - what does your reads look like at this point?