Champions 2019 - Crisis on The Syndicate [GAME OVER]

[tedxtr]

I’m phoneposting in class, that’s a big explanation on svs, I’ll post it on PC later on

[sprityo]

Btw Jack is always right about Nutella. It's canon. So either he's town and she's wolf or he's wolf and she's wolf, or he's wolf and she's town. But one of them is always a wolf so we should lynch Nutella.

You his teammate? Lmao you know better than this.

I was just thinking you're probably bad anyway. Then this. C'mon man

You have literally been in scum teams with me where you have been immediately caught by Jack and lamented profoundly how well he reads you. So your defense here is hilariously bad.

I love mac and his big D

[sprityo]

Someone please explain your/the case against nutella to me like I am five. I can't be spending time tinkering around the thread myself right now. I don't see it, but she made me look like a doofus on Mafia451 so idfk

That was hilarious, so mad I got vigged n1 for no fucking reason and Nutella got lynched day one for no fucking reason

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Someone please explain your/the case against nutella to me like I am five. I can't be spending time tinkering around the thread myself right now. I don't see it, but she made me look like a doofus on Mafia451 so idfk

That was hilarious, so mad I got vigged n1 for no fucking reason and Nutella got lynched day one for no fucking reason

You were both scum tho

[sprityo]

Someone please explain your/the case against nutella to me like I am five. I can't be spending time tinkering around the thread myself right now. I don't see it, but she made me look like a doofus on Mafia451 so idfk

That was hilarious, so mad I got vigged n1 for no fucking reason and Nutella got lynched day one for no fucking reason

You were both scum tho

Exactly, it was stupid, no basis on the vote everyone just hopped on some rude little shit’s random vote “because he’s usually right”


Anyways I’ve caught up while waiting for my flight

Still gonna vote jack

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Someone please explain your/the case against nutella to me like I am five. I can't be spending time tinkering around the thread myself right now. I don't see it, but she made me look like a doofus on Mafia451 so idfk

That was hilarious, so mad I got vigged n1 for no fucking reason and Nutella got lynched day one for no fucking reason

You were both scum tho

Exactly, it was stupid, no basis on the vote everyone just hopped on some rude little shit’s random vote “because he’s usually right”


Anyways I’ve caught up while waiting for my flight

Still gonna vote jack

2 different vigs shot you lmao

[sprityo]

[mention]Long Con[/mention] [mention]Black Rock[/mention] for Lassie role, is that any time of day or night phase or just day phase? For the “X has fallen down the well!”

[sprityo]

Someone please explain your/the case against nutella to me like I am five. I can't be spending time tinkering around the thread myself right now. I don't see it, but she made me look like a doofus on Mafia451 so idfk

That was hilarious, so mad I got vigged n1 for no fucking reason and Nutella got lynched day one for no fucking reason

You were both scum tho

Exactly, it was stupid, no basis on the vote everyone just hopped on some rude little shit’s random vote “because he’s usually right”


Anyways I’ve caught up while waiting for my flight

Still gonna vote jack

2 different vigs shot you lmao

I wasn’t even talking scummy!

[sprityo]

I see the reasons for voting speedchuck, radishes, Nutella and they all work, I guess.

I just really want to vote jack.

[NANOOKTHEGREATANDFEARSOME]

Someone please explain your/the case against nutella to me like I am five. I can't be spending time tinkering around the thread myself right now. I don't see it, but she made me look like a doofus on Mafia451 so idfk

That was hilarious, so mad I got vigged n1 for no fucking reason and Nutella got lynched day one for no fucking reason

You were both scum tho

Exactly, it was stupid, no basis on the vote everyone just hopped on some rude little shit’s random vote “because he’s usually right”


Anyways I’ve caught up while waiting for my flight

Still gonna vote jack

2 different vigs shot you lmao

I wasn’t even talking scummy!

They thought differently

Don’t feel bad tho, that shit just happens on 451, it’s very hard to play scum in a game with elli and chess and dan all town.

[Master Radishes]

On phone at work so not here to have an extended convo. But, nutella, I was ISOing a few people and Mac's reads stood out to me. I checked Ted and sloonei, then quickly glanced at TSP, Dom, and Mac as I looked for people flying under the radar (except dom who was due to dizzys vote). I also glanced at speedchuk and sabie but by that point felt my approach wasn't worthwhile and didn't post anything about it.

What people are interpreting as flailing is just me knowing no one and nothing and looking for angles people haven't considered yet. I had nothing to add to the nutella/Jack debate and didn't feel inclined to reread it all. (I also shaded nute way before anyone else did, and expressed my read of Jack from limited meta.)

I've said it before, I hate D1s. It's not the first time I've ended up being a D1 wagon for not appearing helpful enough.

[S~V~S]

I don't know why I feel resistance to read S-V-S as town. Cause she probably very well could be.

Good read

What? This is a terrible read. What does it even mean?

@ me in this I’ll explain later

Good

[S~V~S]

So ... the case is tl; dr "Cause Jack says so" , yes?

No.

I know it reads as if I was being facetious or flip here, but I wasn't. I am reading her the opposite to Jack, and while my track record isn't what his is, I trust me more than him. So when I take Jacks opinion out of the equation, I am not seeing it. I am not seeing the basis for a nutella vote.

[juliets]

I figure Juliets is town for doing several D1 isos and if that’s being too easy on her so be it. I can always reevaluate later.

It's busy work. I sure as hell am not going to go through all of someone's posts before there's a result, and I'm certainly not doing so ending up with, "Yeah, this person is a possibility for my vote."

Uh.

That's very unlike juliets. I'm sorry.

I guess I got up at 5 am needlessly then to finish her ISO.

By listing someone's posts though I get a feel for patterns if there are any in a way that someone else can see what I'm talking about. Or I can see build up or progression in someone's reads or lack thereof which I thought I saw in Jack's posts when he went from maybe nutella to voting nutella in 3 minutes.

In Inception when I decided to track the the voting which was wild and crazy in Day 1 people also said I was doing busy work to look involved. But tracking those votes helped me immensely as time went on and others referred to them later as well.

So I tell you what. I'll finish the ISO of nutella without summarizing her posts, maybe that will work out ok.

As for asking questions I'll get to that. There are just too many people right now and I have a schedule that doesn't allow me to stay current. As I read I have questions but since I'm behind nine times out of ten someone asks them before I get to the end of my reading. When I'm caught up you'll see that change.

One last think, Jack's insight about my wrestling with whether he is scum was right on target. For those that don't know, I made a decision in F4 of Inception to believe Jack was civ over Lexi (LLD) and lost the game for the town based on that decision. It was crushing, and I've stayed away from mafia ever since. So I see red flags of caution when I am assessing him now.

[juliets]

OK, I'm up to date. Going to finish looking at nutella and then Radish and speed. They will be shorter so it won't take as much time. I'll leave this page open and check back to keep up with the posts while I'm working.

[S~V~S]

Spoiler: show

I figure Juliets is town for doing several D1 isos and if that’s being too easy on her so be it. I can always reevaluate later.

It's busy work. I sure as hell am not going to go through all of someone's posts before there's a result, and I'm certainly not doing so ending up with, "Yeah, this person is a possibility for my vote."

Uh.

That's very unlike juliets. I'm sorry.

I guess I got up at 5 am needlessly then to finish her ISO.

By listing someone's posts though I get a feel for patterns if there are any in a way that someone else can see what I'm talking about. Or I can see build up or progression in someone's reads or lack thereof which I thought I saw in Jack's posts when he went from maybe nutella to voting nutella in 3 minutes.

In Inception when I decided to track the the voting which was wild and crazy in Day 1 people also said I was doing busy work to look involved. But tracking those votes helped me immensely as time went on and others referred to them later as well.

So I tell you what. I'll finish the ISO of nutella without summarizing her posts, maybe that will work out ok.

As for asking questions I'll get to that. There are just too many people right now and I have a schedule that doesn't allow me to stay current. As I read I have questions but since I'm behind nine times out of ten someone asks them before I get to the end of my reading. When I'm caught up you'll see that change.

One last think, Jack's insight about my wrestling with whether he is scum was right on target. For those that don't know, I made a decision in F4 of Inception to believe Jack was civ over Lexi (LLD) and lost the game for the town based on that decision. It was crushing, and I've stayed away from mafia ever since. So I see red flags of caution when I am assessing him now.

I find this post reassuring, tbh. [mention]Epignosis[/mention]. Bad Juliets is nervous Juliets, especially when she is in the spotlight and being pressed. I don't even remotely see that here. I see vaguely annoyed Juliets, which is civ Juliets in my book. Unless there is a big change, I won't be voting for her anytime soon.

I also just read back over Nutella, and, again, I am not seeing what I look for when she is bad. Nutella is like you for me, Epi, in that when she is bad, I feel an undercurrent of "mean" in her posts, like the "silly civs" lulz are spilling from the chat into her game. Just that tinge of snark. It's totally absent, and while Jack may read her amazingly well, there will be the first time he is wrong, even if he isn't misreading her intentionally. So I am not going to trust his feels over my own, especially when I think HE may be bad.

I expect to be more busy at work today, but I will be around for EOD from about 4ish on, hopefully I can stay up until the end. When I do have time, I plan to reread a few people, I know I am susceptible to buddying, and a few people gave me some heebies and maybe even some jeebies. Leaving my vote where it is for now.

[tedxtr]

So, what I got from Dys was that they presented some form of reluctance to town read S~V~S even though it's most likely a town slot

Here's why : I initially town read S~V~S's engagement with sig, I didn't sense any TMI / subtle pushing back at sig for his read, moreso S~V~S was rather confused at sig and was trying to understand his push, which is really townie. However, other than that, there wasn't anything to town read other than her tone, but nothing exceptionally townie outside of that. Afterwards, I came across the Jack vote and I thought it was scummy because I was also scum reading nutella at the time and that call out on Jack made me irk and I was left with a sour taste ever since then. I had other stuff to focus on and I was really ambivalent towards S~V~S and after Dys pointed that out, it made me rethink of S~V~S's push on Jack and came to the conclusion that it was a town thought just because scum would almost never do that kind of push especially if they're defending a buddy.

It's a combo of these stuff that made me resonate with Dys' observation there

[mention]MacDougall[/mention]
[mention]S~V~S[/mention]

[tedxtr]

And, also, when my nutella scum read was essentially nullified, I perceived S~V~S's vote differently, I think it irked me more because of the timing of it.

Meh I think nullified is too strong, I guess like...Went under the radar and made me focus on other stuff, which is what I usually tend to do. There's too much shiny shit that I need to grab. In this case it was MR.

[juliets]

Spoiler: show

I figure Juliets is town for doing several D1 isos and if that’s being too easy on her so be it. I can always reevaluate later.

It's busy work. I sure as hell am not going to go through all of someone's posts before there's a result, and I'm certainly not doing so ending up with, "Yeah, this person is a possibility for my vote."

Uh.

That's very unlike juliets. I'm sorry.

I guess I got up at 5 am needlessly then to finish her ISO.

By listing someone's posts though I get a feel for patterns if there are any in a way that someone else can see what I'm talking about. Or I can see build up or progression in someone's reads or lack thereof which I thought I saw in Jack's posts when he went from maybe nutella to voting nutella in 3 minutes.

In Inception when I decided to track the the voting which was wild and crazy in Day 1 people also said I was doing busy work to look involved. But tracking those votes helped me immensely as time went on and others referred to them later as well.

So I tell you what. I'll finish the ISO of nutella without summarizing her posts, maybe that will work out ok.

As for asking questions I'll get to that. There are just too many people right now and I have a schedule that doesn't allow me to stay current. As I read I have questions but since I'm behind nine times out of ten someone asks them before I get to the end of my reading. When I'm caught up you'll see that change.

One last think, Jack's insight about my wrestling with whether he is scum was right on target. For those that don't know, I made a decision in F4 of Inception to believe Jack was civ over Lexi (LLD) and lost the game for the town based on that decision. It was crushing, and I've stayed away from mafia ever since. So I see red flags of caution when I am assessing him now.

I find this post reassuring, tbh. Epignosis. Bad Juliets is nervous Juliets, especially when she is in the spotlight and being pressed. I don't even remotely see that here. I see vaguely annoyed Juliets, which is civ Juliets in my book. Unless there is a big change, I won't be voting for her anytime soon.

I also just read back over Nutella, and, again, I am not seeing what I look for when she is bad. Nutella is like you for me, Epi, in that when she is bad, I feel an undercurrent of "mean" in her posts, like the "silly civs" lulz are spilling from the chat into her game. Just that tinge of snark. It's totally absent, and while Jack may read her amazingly well, there will be the first time he is wrong, even if he isn't misreading her intentionally. So I am not going to trust his feels over my own, especially when I think HE may be bad.

I expect to be more busy at work today, but I will be around for EOD from about 4ish on, hopefully I can stay up until the end. When I do have time, I plan to reread a few people, I know I am susceptible to buddying, and a few people gave me some heebies and maybe even some jeebies. Leaving my vote where it is for now.

I am just about to post the rest of my ISO of nutella, but I want to acknowledge here that I agree with your take that mean nutella is bad nutella and I just don't see that at all in her ISO. The snark is missing.

[tedxtr]

Hey I think G-man has decent odds at flipping scum by the way, anyone wanna talk about it?

Also, MR has been talked about by everyone early game, everyone threw jabs at him but he never got hard pushed so it makes me happier to see his wagon grow.

So was G-Man, but a much lower percentage.

Orange, JaggedJimmyJay? I make three posts, and that’s enough to land me in orange instead of neutral gray?

In a way, I guess I see it, what with the diarrhea-of-the-mouth-inducing playstyle you and others prefer. You have offended me, sir, and now I intend to bury myself in the deepest red of your rainbow reads so that I may ignore your demands for more content.

This post comes to mind as a scum post. I need to check if triple J commented anything on this because it's a horribad post

[tedxtr]

Orange, JaggedJimmyJay? I make three posts, and that’s enough to land me in orange instead of neutral gray?

In a way, I guess I see it, what with the diarrhea-of-the-mouth-inducing playstyle you and others prefer. You have offended me, sir, and now I intend to bury myself in the deepest red of your rainbow reads so that I may ignore your demands for more content.

If a post exists, then "gray" is not happening. That's for cowards. Do your thing, and I'll see what I see.

that's what he said about g-man.

juliets! can you describe JJJ's meta for me real quick please?

[juliets]

ISO [mention]nutella[/mention] continued:

Here's the rest of what I see in Nutella's ISO. I tried to concentrate more on what I think/feel about her comments.

There are puts and takes but overall I don't see this as bad nutella. She says some things that make me feel not good about her and Mac's forceful suspicions made me more wary about her than Jack's but overall I just don't think this is bad nutella. As I just said in my response to S~V~S her tone is missing the snark and thread of meaness that I have seen when she's bad.

Also, after reading her thoroughly and thinking about Jack's ISO overnight and seeing his comments after my Iso I feel better about him this morning. Not ready to clear him but feeling better than I did yesterday.

Off to breakfast and then ISO Radish and speed.

Spoiler: show

- nutella asks Jack how he determines "opportunism" and I didn't see and answer from Jack. [mention]Jackofhearts2005[/mention] I asked a question about opportunism as well and you pointed me back to your ISO, only there's nothing there that answers my question. "opportunism" is a word that doesn't mean much to me - can you just give and example of where she was "opportunistic"? I really don't understand what you're saying about her when you use that word.

- nutella calls Jack's posts fake and calls him a wolf. This ngl but she has since changed that opinion. I see this as an emotional response.

- she says to Jack "if you really think you are right here prepare for an ego check". I liked this comment, it sounded like she really meant it to me.

- she expresses an early scum lean on speedchuck.

- Nutella is answering every post of Jack's that says something about her which looks good to me. I think if she were bad she would ignore some things because there were just so many and why highlight how much he believed she was bad.

- ted says she's ate-ing and she disagrees. I think she is too but I don't necessarily read that as a bad characteristic.

- ted asks for explanation for her reads and she says at this point they are mostly meta and gut and general overall tone. I see this as an honest answer, she doesn't try to pick a few reads and present them as though she had evidence. I don't think there is much evidence this early on so I respect her for this. I think scum would try to say a bad read was more than just gut and tone.

- she votes for Radishes agreeing with Jay that Radishes takes are forced garbage. At this point she has moved off declaring Jack is bad and has acknowledged that he could just be wrong town.

- goes back and forth with Mac over his feeling that she's bad. There back and forth gets confused over whether they are talking about Michelle or Jack. Mac is adamant that she is bad and his reasons affected me more than JAck's reasons.

- answers Jack's example of something she posted (in between the time he said Nutella (maybe) and voted for her) by asking how what she said is more like scum nutella than town nutella. I thought this was a good point, she does post things like that when town.

- still answering all of Jacks posts, then says: "Guess I can't win here. I just ask that you step back and ask yourself if I really, actually look like scum nutella. Because I don't think I do. I'm not holding back or being careful like I would as scum and like I'm sure I did in the Aussie game (because I fully knew how bad I looked there all through it). I'm posting more, and more freely, than I think I could as scum. But hey I'm biased. You're the real expert here." I do agree that her posting seems free and frequent and not careful, her responses are usually quick and sound like they are unfiltered. I need to compare that to a game where she's scum but this rings true to me.

- she votes Mac. I'm not wild about this vote, it reminds me of her vote for Jack.

- agrees with Epi that my ISO's are busy work and not insightful. She's entitled to her opinion.

[juliets]

[mention]tedxtr[/mention] I see your question but I'm desperate for coffee and something to eat. I'll answer you as soon as I get back.

[S~V~S]

Hey I think G-man has decent odds at flipping scum by the way, anyone wanna talk about it?

Also, MR has been talked about by everyone early game, everyone threw jabs at him but he never got hard pushed so it makes me happier to see his wagon grow.

So was G-Man, but a much lower percentage.

Orange, JaggedJimmyJay? I make three posts, and that’s enough to land me in orange instead of neutral gray?

In a way, I guess I see it, what with the diarrhea-of-the-mouth-inducing playstyle you and others prefer. You have offended me, sir, and now I intend to bury myself in the deepest red of your rainbow reads so that I may ignore your demands for more content.

This post comes to mind as a scum post. I need to check if triple J commented anything on this because it's a horribad post

YES!! G Man has been getting into my mind as well. He has said he is busy and his wife does not know he is playing (and I know from the past that this is very possibly true, when I first 'met' him maybe 9 or so years ago, he had retired from playing for this reason back then and was only hosting) but I find him very concerning for reasons not unlike Jacks reasons for trying to lynch nutella, ironically. But that is why I have backburnered him to an extent; I don't want to try to lynch someone over his dynamic with me. But I found his vanilla vote disturbing, his lack of reasoning, especially in light of the discussion about whether the zero poll had benefits. One of the first things he does in a game is try to sort me out ever since we were teammates in BSG, and he has made no attempt to engage me at all. I have mentioned this several times, and nada from G Man.

Plus G tends do do long analysis posts himself, so not feeling his "diarrhea-of-the-mouth" playstyle remark up there. But yeah, I think he's being blendy and coasting. He is a conscientious civvie, and even if time is throttling him, he makes an effort to do his duty to the town. Not seeing that here.

And on phone at work, thanks (I think? lol) for the explanation re me you posted. I am on phone and can't multiquote, but I will try later to address it.

[juliets]

Orange, JaggedJimmyJay? I make three posts, and that’s enough to land me in orange instead of neutral gray?

In a way, I guess I see it, what with the diarrhea-of-the-mouth-inducing playstyle you and others prefer. You have offended me, sir, and now I intend to bury myself in the deepest red of your rainbow reads so that I may ignore your demands for more content.

If a post exists, then "gray" is not happening. That's for cowards. Do your thing, and I'll see what I see.

that's what he said about g-man.

juliets! can you describe JJJ's meta for me real quick please?

Ted, Jay is one of those people that feels like he can read people off of an early post or an early couple of posts. I don't see anything odd about him saying if a post exists there is no gray.

Beyond that "old" JJJ was all over the thread with tons of posts for the time that he was alive. The day of reckoning came on that though as he described earlier in the game and he dialed back. Still though I expect him to question things, make incisive comments, publish rainbow lists or otherwise keep us up to date with how he's feeling about people, and asking us to participate in thought experiments. For example, in some situations where people have a lot of votes he will ask us to tell why that person is civ, so looking at the devil's advocate position about someone.

If there is something specific you are asking about I will answer to the best of my ability. I'll keep an eye out and otherwise I'm on my way to look at Radishes.

[tedxtr]

Your first line is exactly what I thought he'd be like off a skim, I just wanted some confirmation. I'm the same and the fact that JJJ didn't really comment anything on G-man's post makes me raise an eyebrow at his response to G-Man.

he looked he was completely fine with the response. i have the same type of hunting and this bothers me.

[juliets]

ISO [mention]Master Radishes[/mention]

Let me start by admitting a bias. Radishes was one of my favorite people I met during the championships on MU. I heard from several people that he was a masterful player so I was so happy when he signed up for our Invitational (that was the Inception game). In that game he was downright brilliant as the independent who lived until the end and won (along with that damn mafia). In fact he won a Socky for his performance there. So I was thrilled when he decided to give us another try by playing this game. Therefore, my heart is heavy that he has so many votes here and is in danger of getting lynched. I hate to see new people, especially ones I'm attached to, get lynched in early game. I know this is a weakness of mine and I'm trying to guard against being swayed by these feelings.

With all that bias admitted I believe I was objective in going through his ISO. I didn't see any flailing and I didn't see anything I interpreted as fake. I saw a calm and collected Radishes who was genuine. I do not lean scum on him after reading him closely.

People I respect and am leaning town on voted him however and I'm asking them (and anyone else) to help me see what I am missing here. What is the case against Radishes besides flailing and sounding fake? Am I missing the point entirely?

Spoiler: show

- He starts the game with some casual conversation and points out (rightly) that the poll doesn't say anything about it being about ice cream. I liked his entry in the game, he seems relaxed and ready to play.

- Makes the post people have talked about where he says "I'm half-heartedly reading through. Do you guys ever stop talking about hidden significances behind your choice of ice cream flavour? Do I need to care about this conversation?" Others have said they didn't like this post but I thought it was normal for someone who isn't used to polls meaning something and there being prizes associated with it.

- Voices a thought that S~V~S's posts could be from scum - not are but could be. I don't agree with him here, I didn't see her posts scummy at all but I have played with her for 9-10 years and this is his first game with her.

- Still in Day 0 says he likes nutella so far but doesn't have a reason why. Asks for meta on her. He's played with her before so I was a little surprised he asked for meta. I guess though he had only played with her once? Sloonei answers his question and he says he will see how she evolves. Fair answer I think at this point.

- Sloonei asks him his approach to mafia and he says he is not the right person to ask (though he does answer the question somewhat). I agree with him here, he could say whatever he wanted and we wouldn't really know if he was telling the truth or not.

- He later attempts more analysis about himself. I like that he admitted he is not afraid to bus when bad and likes to sneak into the town core by playing to his town meta. Would he have told us that if he were scum? It seems unlikely.

- Regarding his use of baddie: he briefly explains how he tends to adopt the language of the site he is at like he uses Indy when he's here which he doesn't use anywhere else. Otherwise he said he skimmed the posts about his use of baddie and it was pointless so he's going to ignore it. I liked this answer. I thought the whole "baddie" thing was a tempest in a teapot and he didn't spend any time defending or giving it credence. I saw this as a positive. Please argue with me on this if you see it differently.

- Notes that he normally hates Day 1s and that holds here especially since he really doesn't know many people.

- At this point he answers Nanook's question about the case on Radish by saying he thinks his posts have been deemed "fake". Help me out here people, I am not seeing the fakery at all. He seems calm to me, not fake.

- Talks about Dizzy's post about him seeming performative saying he understands why Dizzy would think that and goes on to explain why. He then makes the point that he likes Dizzy's post because it would be easy to pile on at this point but Dizzy is attempting to parse his behavior. Scum would just slip into a vote for him. I like how he doesn't argue with Dizzy about his perception but gives his own explanation, and I like that he differentiates between how Dizzy feels and his method in trying to sort Radish.

- Says pre-ISO ted leans town and Sloonei asks questions instead of helping scum hunt. I agree with the ted assessment. Sloonei's style is to ask questions though I wouldn't expect Radish to know that.

- Offers the opinion that Jack in Inception was trying to play like he is now and in retrospect he was trying to imitate his town meta in that game (Jack was bad in that game). Good insight and may be why I have mixed feelings about Jack.

- ISO's ted and labels him a light green. I won't quote it here but I thought it was a good ISO and agreed with it.

- ISO's Sloonei and comes to the conclusion he doesn't TR him but not ready to vote him either.

- Responds to Dizzy who was responding to Radish's answer to Dizzy's suspicion - is still calm, explains himself but says he understands Dizzy's perception. Still liking his answers to suspicion.

- Like's Dom's limited posts, thinks SVS is cool but doesn't understand all the TRs on her, says TSP has done nothing, what about him? Not afraid to question and voice concerns about people he doesn't know very well.

- Points out Mac's post which was just a copy of JJJ's post on reads. Then finds out JJJ was the original author and votes him because he feels like early on there would be some gray. This is not the way JJJ plays though. He feels like he can make a read if he has a post by someone so basically forces a GTH read on everyone. No gray. I don't know what to make of Radish seeing Mac's post but not Jay's. Did this strike people as suspicious in some way?

- In his last post he says: "What people are interpreting as flailing is just me knowing no one and nothing and looking for angles people haven't considered yet. I had nothing to add to the nutella/Jack debate and didn't feel inclined to reread it all. (I also shaded nute way before anyone else did, and expressed my read of Jack from limited meta.)" I have to say I don't see the flailing at all as I go through his posts.

[juliets]

Your first line is exactly what I thought he'd be like off a skim, I just wanted some confirmation. I'm the same and the fact that JJJ didn't really comment anything on G-man's post makes me raise an eyebrow at his response to G-Man.

he looked he was completely fine with the response. i have the same type of hunting and this bothers me.

Ok, I see what you're saying I think but I did not see anything amiss with Jay's response. Wasn't he basically just saying "this is how I feel for now, I'll see how that evolves over time"?

I'm going to break for a few minutes and then look at speed.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Hee ho how mad ya’ll gonna be if I decide I townread Nutella?

[juliets]

ISO [mention]speedchuck[/mention]

Wow, I didn't expect there to be so much of nothing here. Of the 4 people I have looked at speed is the one I'd be most likely to vote at this point in time because his ISO is devoid of his thoughts about people. So speed I'd really like you to give some of your thoughts. What do you think of Radishes, nutella and Jack to start with? What do you think about S~V~S? What about others? Are there any other aspects of the game you can comment on? I need to hear your thoughts.

Spoiler: show

- I don't understand speeds entry post about Saitama but I'm pretty sure it's because he's a character from something that I'm not familiar with. Otherwise, I see normal joking around about ice cream flavors.

- Answers Jay's query about what's going on with "nothing" and then comments that Jay has 59 posts. I would have liked to see speed give some kind of thought here, anything even preliminary.

- Says he would rather vote nutella than Jack because nutella will start scum reading him anytime (Nutella's answer was that had already started). Not sure if he was joking here or what. [mention]speedchuck[/mention] were you joking or no about wanting to vote nutella?

- Has some more joke posts about ATE and being town core.

- Says he doesn't see any ATE in Nutella's posts. I interpreted this as him not seeing any emotion in Nutella's posts which I disagree with. I see a lot of emotion.

- Says he is surprised to see nutella offended about Jack's post saying she's either mimicking her town game or she's town. I didn't see nutella as offended, it was more of a wth response. Anyway, I do understand why she responded the way she did.

- When asked about jack/nutella he says he ted's reaction was notable because he was so pro nutella. He asks ted if he knew nutella prior to this. Speed doesn't say what he thinks about ted's reaction to nutella after saying it was notable. So I'll ask now [mention]speedchuck[/mention] what do you make of ted's reaction? Like it? Don't like it? And why?

- And that's it. That's the end of his ISO.

[juliets]

Hee ho how mad ya’ll gonna be if I decide I townread Nutella?

You do? What the heck changed?

[juliets]

Speaking of people whose thoughts I'd like to hear, [mention]Tranq[/mention], [mention]ColinIsCool[/mention], [mention]Dragomir[/mention] where are you and what are your thoughts about all of this.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Here’s kinda my read progression.

1) Nutella throws out some opportunistic takes on Sig and iirc, Nanook. That is, she pointed out a little not that scummy thing in Sig’s massive iso of purity which made it look like she was trying to get a mislynch. Then Nanook has a fair amount of early suspicion and it felt like she was like “oh yeah, me too” which felt like a wolf that just wanted to get a lynch not on her team, not a real thought.

1.5) At the same time, Nutella is kinda giving off townie tone outside those two posts. She’s waffley but to the point where she is saying things like “I am waffley” so it could be fake. She’s also posting a ton and Nutella tends to post less as a wolf.

2) I express that maybe Nutella is scum. Cause she’s hitting scum and town baseline behavior.

3) Nutella is immediately like “This is garbo.” This feels like a bad reaction for the reasons Jay pointed out. The last time I caught Nutella day 1, we thunderdomed and it felt fake but she skated and killed me night 1. So it really felt like wolfNutella gearing up for an inevitable confrontation. I’m not sure what the townie perspective is for her reaction.

4) I reread the Sig/Nanook posts and see Nutella call my suspicion of her garbo so I vote for her.

5) Nutella reacts as follows and it really reads like “I don’t even suspect Jack because would wolfJack even do this whatever I’m going to vote for him anyway.

Specifically, Nutella is showing waffles, wim and opportunism.

[VOTE: Nutella] aubergine

are you like, reading from a clipboard? seriously what is this?

what have you done with jack??

would you actually be this obvious tho??

[VOTE: jack] aubergine

And as I’m reading these posts, my scumread on Nutella is reinforced. She really does look bad from these posts in a vacuum.

6) We fight for a bit and then I leave. Then Nutella is like “Jack is probably town and wrong.”

7) ???????? Idk I haven’t read all this shit. Votes move to Radishes and come off me cause duh I’m town. And they pile onto Nutella, which implies she did something else scummy or people agree with my points.

8) Jay points out to Nutella “AHA! You shouldn’t suspect Jack for suspecting you!” and Nutella is like “No shit but what am I supposed to do?”

Then Nutella continues to hit her stride without letting herself get pulled into the thunderdome, not having mean wolf reactions, etc.

But the other thing is that almost half the players are scum and I have a bunch of townreads.

So I’m like “Either Nutella is a wolf and is handling me way better than she did last time and is mimicking her town game better or she’s a townie who had three scummy looking reads on D1 and statistically, some of my other reads are probably wrong.”

And then there’s multiball to take into account. Does wolfNutella look townier because it’s multiball and age can go after people? Does townNutella get unfairly dinged for scummy looking reads when she’s going to actually hunt regardless of alignment and so the very basis of my “Nutella does not believe these reads” line of inquiry is wrong on its face?

Idk. I kinda want to give her another day.

[juliets]

Hey I think G-man has decent odds at flipping scum by the way, anyone wanna talk about it?

Also, MR has been talked about by everyone early game, everyone threw jabs at him but he never got hard pushed so it makes me happier to see his wagon grow.

So was G-Man, but a much lower percentage.

Orange, JaggedJimmyJay? I make three posts, and that’s enough to land me in orange instead of neutral gray?

In a way, I guess I see it, what with the diarrhea-of-the-mouth-inducing playstyle you and others prefer. You have offended me, sir, and now I intend to bury myself in the deepest red of your rainbow reads so that I may ignore your demands for more content.

This post comes to mind as a scum post. I need to check if triple J commented anything on this because it's a horribad post

I looked over G-Man's posts and I don't see very much at all. My memory is he is usually more active than this though the caveat there is he just started a new job and may not be able to post from there and then he doesn't want his wife to know so that limits him at home. S~V~S's post about him niggles at me though because she's right, he hasn't tried to engage her at all and his posts have been blendy. It bothers me but I want to give him more time to get involved given his circumstances.

[Jackofhearts2005]

And the other thing is that I feel like Epi should get mad I keep starting sentences with conjunctions but he never does.

[Jackofhearts2005]

If I’m wrong on Nutella, I will handwave this game later like “lol multiball” and insist I’m still perfect at reading her.

[Dom]

Mac, I once again am asking you to clarify why you wanted someone you claim is baddie (me) to corroborate a piece of evidence for you.

Because there are two scum teams

That isn't your operating theory as far as I understand it.
But it is the first piece of bullshit you thought of.

Also because if you are teammates it would force you into an awkward situation which is pretty much the point.

So... which is it?
Or is my name out there to see what sticks?

On phone at work so not here to have an extended convo. But, nutella, I was ISOing a few people and Mac's reads stood out to me. I checked Ted and sloonei, then quickly glanced at TSP, Dom, and Mac as I looked for people flying under the radar (except dom who was due to dizzys vote). I also glanced at speedchuk and sabie but by that point felt my approach wasn't worthwhile and didn't post anything about it.

What people are interpreting as flailing is just me knowing no one and nothing and looking for angles people haven't considered yet. I had nothing to add to the nutella/Jack debate and didn't feel inclined to reread it all. (I also shaded nute way before anyone else did, and expressed my read of Jack from limited meta.)

I've said it before, I hate D1s. It's not the first time I've ended up being a D1 wagon for not appearing helpful enough.

I have no idea what the enlarged text means.



[mention]tedxtr[/mention]
Answer my question or face my wrath.

[Dom]

People who look yucky to me (in no particular order):
--Jack
--nutella
--Mac
--G-Man
--juliets (a little)

[Jackofhearts2005]

Lol the idea of trying to not let your spouse know you’re playing mafia.

It’s easy. Just devote your reddit and discord time to playing mafia and she won’t notice the difference.

[juliets]

Here’s kinda my read progression.

1) Nutella throws out some opportunistic takes on Sig and iirc, Nanook. That is, she pointed out a little not that scummy thing in Sig’s massive iso of purity which made it look like she was trying to get a mislynch. Then Nanook has a fair amount of early suspicion and it felt like she was like “oh yeah, me too” which felt like a wolf that just wanted to get a lynch not on her team, not a real thought.

1.5) At the same time, Nutella is kinda giving off townie tone outside those two posts. She’s waffley but to the point where she is saying things like “I am waffley” so it could be fake. She’s also posting a ton and Nutella tends to post less as a wolf.

2) I express that maybe Nutella is scum. Cause she’s hitting scum and town baseline behavior.

3) Nutella is immediately like “This is garbo.” This feels like a bad reaction for the reasons Jay pointed out. The last time I caught Nutella day 1, we thunderdomed and it felt fake but she skated and killed me night 1. So it really felt like wolfNutella gearing up for an inevitable confrontation. I’m not sure what the townie perspective is for her reaction.

4) I reread the Sig/Nanook posts and see Nutella call my suspicion of her garbo so I vote for her.

5) Nutella reacts as follows and it really reads like “I don’t even suspect Jack because would wolfJack even do this whatever I’m going to vote for him anyway.

Specifically, Nutella is showing waffles, wim and opportunism.

[VOTE: Nutella] aubergine

are you like, reading from a clipboard? seriously what is this?

what have you done with jack??

would you actually be this obvious tho??

[VOTE: jack] aubergine

And as I’m reading these posts, my scumread on Nutella is reinforced. She really does look bad from these posts in a vacuum.

6) We fight for a bit and then I leave. Then Nutella is like “Jack is probably town and wrong.”

7) ???????? Idk I haven’t read all this shit. Votes move to Radishes and come off me cause duh I’m town. And they pile onto Nutella, which implies she did something else scummy or people agree with my points.

8) Jay points out to Nutella “AHA! You shouldn’t suspect Jack for suspecting you!” and Nutella is like “No shit but what am I supposed to do?”

Then Nutella continues to hit her stride without letting herself get pulled into the thunderdome, not having mean wolf reactions, etc.

But the other thing is that almost half the players are scum and I have a bunch of townreads.

So I’m like “Either Nutella is a wolf and is handling me way better than she did last time and is mimicking her town game better or she’s a townie who had three scummy looking reads on D1 and statistically, some of my other reads are probably wrong.”

And then there’s multiball to take into account. Does wolfNutella look townier because it’s multiball and age can go after people? Does townNutella get unfairly dinged for scummy looking reads when she’s going to actually hunt regardless of alignment and so the very basis of my “Nutella does not believe these reads” line of inquiry is wrong on its face?

Idk. I kinda want to give her another day.

I like your progression Jack especially your last paragraph and after doing her ISO I would like nutella to have another day to be able to engage in observations and suspicions apart from answering the suspicions of her.

If you take your vote off of nutella where would you move it?

[juliets]

People who look yucky to me (in no particular order):
--Jack
--nutella
--Mac
--G-Man
--juliets (a little)

Dom, I'm interested in why I look a little bad to you.

[Turnip Head]

Jack's getting cold feet because it feels like the wagon filled too easily. I think she's bad though, let's stay the course

[Jackofhearts2005]

I have no idea where I’d put my vote now. Maybe on Radishes but that feels like a cop out because I don’t suspect Radishes I just don’t see anything townie in him and he’s probably the player here whose game I have the weakest grasp of.

[juliets]

I have no idea where I’d put my vote now. Maybe on Radishes but that feels like a cop out because I don’t suspect Radishes I just don’t see anything townie in him and he’s probably the player here whose game I have the weakest grasp of.

What are your thoughts about speedchuck at this point?

[Turnip Head]

Jack stahp

[Jackofhearts2005]

I have no idea where I’d put my vote now. Maybe on Radishes but that feels like a cop out because I don’t suspect Radishes I just don’t see anything townie in him and he’s probably the player here whose game I have the weakest grasp of.

What are your thoughts about speedchuck at this point?

He barely exists. Babies are time consuming though.

Also, as an alternate universe version of me, I don’t know what his beef with pineapple on pizza is.

[juliets]

I have no idea where I’d put my vote now. Maybe on Radishes but that feels like a cop out because I don’t suspect Radishes I just don’t see anything townie in him and he’s probably the player here whose game I have the weakest grasp of.

What are your thoughts about speedchuck at this point?

He barely exists. Babies are time consuming though.

Also, as an alternate universe version of me, I don’t know what his beef with pineapple on pizza is.

Ok, fair point. Also pineapple on pizza is icky.

[Jackofhearts2005]

Jack stahp

Convince me Nutella is bad as if I’m just now coming into the thread.

[Turnip Head]

Bad Nutella might get "mean" as suggested by someone, but good Nutella gets angry when she's wrongly suspected I don't see that anger here

[juliets]

Bad Nutella might get "mean" as suggested by someone, but good Nutella gets angry when she's wrongly suspected I don't see that anger here

I thought she did sound angry though. My interpretation of her vote for Jack is that she lashed out in anger.

I just went back and looked at your ISO because I couldn't remember the specifics of why you suspected her to see what I missed but I couldn't find any specifics. Could you elaborate a little more on why you find her suspicious?